@@MuscleboundKageThe entire obsession of a few grown adults to try to destroy the life of another grown adult because they don’t agree with the way he puts his dick in things did it for me.
The inevitable Lav betrayal of Mr. Girl is going to be so tremendous that I almost feel bad for him. Mr. Girl is a narcissistic idiot, but Lav is genuinely a bad person. I think she routinely positions herself to LOOK as though she's the vulnerable one to cover her behaviour while she manipulates people and situations to get what she wants. What she wants normally being attention. "I need men to be obsessed with me." - Lav.
Hard disagree. I think Mr Girl is 1000% a narcissist but not an idiot. He’s just deluded and based on his actual behaviors, and self admitted vices, he’s a bad person. Lav to me, is just a crazy person.
@@giovalladares1022 Crazy implies, at least to me, a person who is out of control and possibly experiencing / interpreting a reality different from the base reality experienced by most people. I don't think Lav is out of control, I think she knows exactly what she's doing but is rather impulsive in her decision making. I think she has a perception of the world colored by her own prejudices which skews basically everything incoming and outgoing.
I love how Max tries to paint a history of abuse with Destiny to prove he's an abuser. But also thinks it's crazy that people think he's abusive to shaelin when he has a way crazier history of abuse. From actually physically assaulting a woman he was in a relationship with to penetrating a chick after she said no. Then all those crazy videos with Shaelin. But nah apparently his history doesn't count
It's so crazy that people use the argument that "Anna had more to lose". Yeah.... so don't pick a fight that you're going to lose more than you're willing to. If I punch a boxer in the face he's not wrong to punch me back. I'm going to get hurt more but that's my bad for picking that fight.
The problem with max is that it isn't a boss/employee situation. If anything destiny basically invited him to live with him since he got kicked out of his own home and as the times went on the rest of Destiny's housemates found out why max got kicked out in the first place with how insane he is.
I agree with Chud's take on this. Your being trapped on Destiny's stream is a skill issue. It just means that you are bad at making content. You don't ever have to go on Destiny's stream, you can make your own good content.
the last few minutes are absolutely balls to the wall insane. you would be hard fucking pressed to find anyone who, if they found out their therapist or counsellor was the first one to leak nudes, would be cool with keeping that person as their therapist.
Tom did a really good job in this interview. His convos with Max & Destiny are super good faith, no gotchas and I feel like I understand the other person's positions and thought process a lot more after. We need people like him in this space. Not too many tho please.
If I found out my therapist leaked sexts or anything sexual at all from someone they were with, I wouldn’t just trust them less, I’d switch therapists right then and there.
Btw no one mentions this but Ana did leak her sexting with Destiny and he never leaked her nudes...so even that "abuse" story shows Destiny has more restraint than people deserve.
I don't think Destiny is correct when he says the abuser needs power over you in the extent that they can 'destroy you'. All they need is the FEEL like you could destroy them. That power dynamic doesn't actually have to exist. That's where other manipulation tactics come in like gaslighting. So I think the argument Mr. Girl would make is that the people Destiny 'abuses' FEEL like their livelihood is in his hands. They see people who have crossed Destiny like Bob7 completely disappear. I think there are plenty of reasons this doesn't fully apply here, but this would be a more accurate stance to argue against.
Any delusional person can just passively feel like someone else can destroy them... that doesn't make the relationship inherently abusive. The potential 'abuser' has to specifically suggest that they would exercise the option. It's like arguing that rich people, police officers, public officials, priests, etc... can't ask/expect anything of anyone without the relationship being inherently unethical/abusive if the other person somehow just FEELS they could be destroyed. That's why Max's general "there is a power differential, therefore it's unethical" is just wrong. Say you're a police officer. We all have an inherent understanding that if a police officer really wanted to, they could destroy us. By that argument, a police officer can't possibly ever enter an ethical relationship (romantic/business/friendship/other) with anyone other than another police officer of equal rank. The perpetrator has to make specific effort to suggest you'd be destroyed. It can't be just because you just FEEL like it could happen. Because we essentially all FEEL that about police officers already.
Just to be clear, I don't think what Destiny is doing is abuse. I think he has done things in a fairly responsible way. I'm sure your response has more to do with Max's point of view. Did you read the full take and come to the conclusion I was saying anytime someone feels like they are trapped, it is abuse? I'm more or less saying Destiny is arguing against a specific type of abuse, and ignoring another type that CAN exist. The point is, there doesn't always have to be a REAL power dynamic. If I threaten to release something on you, or turn your friends against you, or anything else, BUT I don't have the ability to do that, then there is perceived power that doesn't exist, but you would agree that is abuse because the perpetrator made a specific effort (this part isn't meant to argue against you, but just to show that a threat doesn't need to be real for it to be abuse). To take it further, If I know you THINK your livelihood is tied to my stream, even if I know you would be fine without me, but I take advantage of that feeling, I am still being abusive. I don't believe the perpetrator has to make an effort to suggest that. Taking advantage of a fear that is caused by something other than you, is more than enough to constitute abuse. This is a difficult thing to talk about because we can never know someone's intent, but that is the point of looking through all of the evidence. I don't think Max was even close to proving this in his article. I just think Destiny misspoke when he gave his definition for abuse is all.
Politicians don't send hoards of psychos to harrass and dox you for looking into their history and writing an article about them. I think this hits closer to home than a politician could ever.
The main difference, and I'm not saying that this is fair, is that Destiny has hundreds of hours of himself on the internet. _Generally,_ people will not go out of their way to look for bad things others have done in the past. But when you have a lot of that out in the open on the internet, it becomes a lot easier for people to do that because it takes less effort. This is why you normally don't see nobodies getting canceled. As for politicians, they know they'll get more eyes on them for runnning for office, so they probably make more of an effort than the average person to hide bad things that they've done in the past and/or are currently doing. Content creators also do this, but to a lesser extent, since producing content necessarily has to show at least some aspect of themselves. Streamers do this less than other content creators because their content is pretty much unedited and much longer than other forms of content. And Destiny does this even less than the average streamer, though that's not to say he doesn't do it at all.
@@mrbanks456 is retaliation always bad? In the cases mentioned in this video, they seemed like justified retaliation or not retaliation at all. Not to mention before the article Mr girl was saying destiny was sexually abusing to women before dropping the sexual part because nobody corroborated that at all right?
Sorry but Booksmarts might have started his streaming because of Destiny but he was literally making money from writing essays and tutoring and could go back to that any time he wanted (he even talked about this on stream)
The employee comparison is just so nonsensical I don't know why anyone brings it up. If it's anything, it's more like a successful freelancer vs a less sucsessful freelancer. Any possible bad dynamics you want to discuss, fall flat if you use an analogy that makes no sense.
They are not dependent on Destiny, they go on Destiny so they can get more views on their own channel and make a career out of it. Just like how a big artist collabs with a smaller artist, the smaller artist is not dependent on the bigger artist forever.
@@saulmendez2276 Well it not working is not on Destiny, its on him. Thats like is a small artist who worked with Madonna says shes dependent on Madonna now, and Madonna is the reason she doesnt have fans?
Want to be therapist suffering from leaked... Most damaging thing that therapist can have if they themselves leaked someone's personal stuff... Oh Destiny saw that also, sharp boy.
2:34 that’s way too narrow of a definition. The victim, in no way, needs to have limited or compromised ability to leave the situation. People can physically, verbally, or emotionally abuse each other without being restricted from leaving. I think a better definition of abuse is recurring assault or harassment on the victim, whether that’s physical, verbal, or emotional. The victim could stay in that abusive relationship without them having their ability to leave compromised. Unless you consider the victim as being ignorant of being abused as a restriction.
I'd be interested in hearing an example as well. Cuz I wonder if you would include emotional restrictions when considering if a victim is able to leave.
Tom did an awesome job in this interview. I like that someone a little more removed and objective is able to ask people questions like this. His interview with Max might be the best one of all 6.
That beginning conversation about power dynamics between large age gapped couples is just so weird to me. I get that in Tom's mind he thinks he's being a good guy having such a discussion with his then girlfriend, but it just feels like such a weird thing to bring up as if it's even remotely a possibility and it's odd that he felt the need to have that discussion with them given it was himself. Like does he not trust himself? Is he capable of abusing someone? Just seems like he's questioning his own character at that point. If I were in that persons shoes I would have felt pretty uncomfortable with that.
I feel like he was trying to get at the idea of "the person in authority would be wise to get agreement in writing" as a way to cover your ass, but was hellbent on framing it as the person's responsibility & if they didn't, they are culpable to any allegation by the other party (or even a 3rd party) You can tell he doesn't have a strong case by how shaken he is navigating it
No, I think it's very possible to overstep boundaries without realising it, some people don't even realise that they should have certain boundries about things, untill it's too late, and things get complicated. It's always better to have your partner speak up about something that's bothering them, than just take it and likely turn resentful as a result. If you're older and more experienced, you might as well use that experience as a tool to enrich your relationships and increase positive outcomes by having these conversations, and avoiding certain situations. Of course, tact is of utmost importance when navigating these things.
Tom started that question off by saying people looked at him like he was doing something wrong no matter what so he took precautionary measures. I've had this exact conversation for the sake reasons. Anyone who thinks you're doing something wrong likely won't accept "It feels cringe" or "That's condescending" as a reason for being abusive lol Tom said before going into this interview that he doesn't have staunch positions on this and that's why he wanted to ask questions.
@kenonerboy So when Destiny gives an answer, and Tom says "Well here's a reason why some people would disagree" or "That doesn't make sense to me. Here's why" I think most people would call that pushback. He's getting Destiny to rethink his answer or give more clarification. Just as he did in his interview with Mr Girl.
@Main Event i mean considering the 180 on mrgirl i think a bit more biting questions would be fine. Interviews dont have to be coddle sessions. And sure i could go out on my lawn more often
Ya I think Destiny knew that. Tom said after he was disappointed in the lack of detail in the later questions but he also thinks Destiny is tired of answering the same things.
I feel like the power dynamic might be more comparable to: when we’re kids, and we have a friend who is more fortunate then us. They have cool shit they let you enjoy their cool shit and it’s great. Then if the relationship sours, you’re no longer benefiting. But, you were never entitled to those things, and that kid can be as illogical as he wants (not that destiny has been so) in rescinding his friendship and by that losing those material benefits allowed by that friendship. Let me know what you think!
@@LUNDYLUNDYLUNDY yesss this guy posts the same exact comment every single video fishing for likes. It's so fuckin cringe lol. He doesn't even change it up, lavs not even the subject of this video. Just a turtle you can't be so obvious man, you gotta change it up or actually respond to the video. You want to be a cringe lord?
@@_.beauu._3897 he responds to everything they do, and when they started this, he was super upset literally saying that he was never going to get close to ppl again. he pretends to be nonchalant as a defense, but obviously this shit pulls at him pretty harshly
I feel like they keep framing destiny and mr.messed up in the heads previous relationship like a boss and employee but it was more like a company(destiny) and an affiliate marketer (mr.girl). Mr.girls entire issue is that destiny wouldn't do shit exactly like how he wants. Every conversation I've heard between them was mr.girl complaining that destiny should believe what mr.girl wants him to believe and any deviation of ideology is met with hostility.
1:35 if you can just leave then your not abused is very worrying line of logic. This is a common misunderstanding of DV such as spousal abuse that contributes to issues in society addressing it.
This guy sounds like hes never been in a relationship in his entire life. People aren't contracts, you can't just disclose 5 pages of what "might happen" etc etc, that just makes them lose trust in you.
If she has a lot more to lose then shouldn't her behavior be extra cool without her threatening people, would you want a therapist that you knew threatened to leak naked pics of someone that they LIKED??
It makes no sense. If Destiny wanted to attack Ana, why would he ban everything that is related to her? But then send people to KiwiFarms? It all makes no sense. The goal was to stop the harassment. If ignoring worked, Destiny would have done that. Better, he has done that and it didn't work. Why do these people always bring up the same ideas that don't work.
I have never understood factorio, I dont understand this game, and I dont understand starcraft. It's almost frustrating because I see him doing the same shit over and over but I dont know what the fuck happened by the end of the video
This looks like a fortress type battle strategy game. Basically the things with the red dots are like enemy soldiers attacking and hes building a base and sending out his own soldiers(the green ones) to hold them back. Basically the game is about starting with a limited amount of resources and you have to build up a base and establish ways to make more money while still having enough to pay soldiers to protect it against waves of increasing scale and difficulty
holy shit, how stupid can we get by making everything internet-complicated. its really not that hard. Abuse, is use of power in an unintended way. (the power was not granted for that use).
I've been out of the Destiny sphere since he moved more to being a drama channel. It's weird how the framing people keep seeming to come up with is "Destiny exposes Mr Girl not great" when he boosted his platform serveral thousand fold and personally contributed to his access to people. Is he really skipping the part where he platformed all the shitty people out of spite literally amplifying anyone right wing he came across for the drama? Then he sits there and talks about he "came out against them" months and months after every left wing person who interacted with them went "Well duh". And once again HE brought them in! It's like the Kanye, Milo and Fuentez combo when they got to Trump, Alex Jones and Tim Pool and the way they all went "What? The clear white supremacists and nazis are saying bad things?!?" *gasp*
are we really questioning Melina's independence and whether their relationship has a power dynamic when mr girl literally 'adopted' and adult young woman
I mean every smaller streamers profits from going to bigger streamers chanel. So every smaller streamers career depend on Hasan and Vaush? But they never let anyone on, so do they harm smaller streamers? It is such a weird way to accuse someone. The alternative is that Destiny doesn't allow smaller streamers on the show anymore. So Tom wouldn't be able to hold this interview right now.
22:32 the real question is not whether Destiny purposely sent people there, it’s that he didn’t care if he did. He could have made that announcement without saying specifics. This is where the plausible deniability comes from.
So is destiny not saying mrgirl is an abuser until he came out against him proof of simple retaliation or that destiny will conceal a negative perspective of a friend from the audience?
@@theeendo3677 i think what he said was after he watched one of mr girls conversations with lav he saw how manipulative and abusive he was, and you can see in that reaction how his mind changes completely about him but then the next day either mr girl announces his article or destiny finds out about it through ppl he reached out to so it was in a short time frame but it wasn’t in retaliation, plus the drudging up stuff using weird/unethical methods also could have an effect on his view of max
I actually know Tom IRL. His past is wild. To think he went from being a junky conman to being the corporate linguist he is today is hard to believe. He talks about this stuff on stream regularly.
People can float around between grad programs, projects and PhDs for years just working as a research assistant. So it's at least technically possible.
"I thought you were saying that you didn't want them talking about what Ana was doing--" Oh, that's because you weren't listening properly. A repeated issue of all conversations nowadays tbh. Perhaps a skill that's getting lost due to internet discussion format, bleeding into irl. Or just always was presents at lower frequency, but is more common now. Cause *not listening properly* certainly seems to be more common now.
Maxis meaning to abuse Artistic Baby Upset So Emotes I’m over trying to fnd credence to this toddler , it’s like hypotheeing why a gecko licks its eyes Interesting for a minute ✨
Hmm I think Destiny would be better off just apologizing for directing his audience to the Kiwi farms thread. It is probably the only actually bad thing he's done in this whole scenario and it sounds like he's retroactively justifying it.
Unless I misunderstood, didn’t he tell his chat to keep their doxxing off his chat and to go to kiwi farms if they wanted to do that? I mean, not super responsible but also not abusive IMO
@@giovalladares1022 Destiny never mentioned doxxing at all he was telling people who want to keep bringing up Ana to leave his channel. Which is funny because it's been years and people are still wanting to talk about Ana lol
1:50 Desitny wouldnt ever consider a man in a spousal relationship unable toget away but for some reason women cant get away in a spousal relationship because........ Not because they are locked out of making money becuase thats his excuse as to why relationships are hard for men to even qualify that women arent locked out of making money.
Often domestic abuse victims are attacked/murdered shortly after leaving so I think it’s more complicated than how much money someone makes. The person has often been isolated from other supports (family or friends), may have pets or children threatened directly or indirectly, may threaten to self harm or game over if the person leaves, repeatedly impress upon them their uselessness and powerlessness… It’s a complicated problem.
Technically there is always some kind of "currency" exchanged in every sexual encounter. I mean unless you literally just see someone, give them the stare, then have sex and never speak again lol. Taking someone on a date is you "paying" for sex, depending on how you look at it 🤷♀️
“Has DiCaprio ever got into trouble dating young girls…I mean he’s only dating young girls, right?” Ever episode is Destiny trying to justify his degeneracy and his “arrangements.”
Destiny's definition of abuse is... Lacking and not even applicable in most abuse situations. What he said CAN be a part of an abusive situation, but it's nothing to do with the act itself.
@Jessie see i get what you're saying with that but I disagree. From my perspective there are many reasons why people can't leave(perceived can't/ costly, this is how I interpret it because imo virtually nothing is impossible) such as in your example leaving as an adult would mean removing yourself from any form of relationship with your mother which other than them changing their behavior would be the only way to stop that abusive cycle so I would argue you are emotionally and mentally trapped. This is why I don't have a problem with the legal definition of sex trafficking because I would argue those victims have been psychologically and emotionally trapped.
@Jessie but in that case you could say the same for the child as a dependent no? There are certainly plenty of examples of children running away from home and trying to survive on their own some more successful than others. In my opinion we have to allow for trapped to include emotionally or psychologically trapped as this then lets the definition make perfect sense. If not then I agree it doesn't apply to abuse very well as a definition but then the subsequent definition you need to come up with will have to be more verbose I think but I haven't tried to come up with a more succinct definition so perhaps that's not the case.
@@NocturnalNick bro c'mon. Destiny is a very reserved individual. His most popular content right now is purely political theory and discussions about philosophy. That's what pays the bills
@@NocturnalNick does he go out of his way to make the details public or is it other people who are leaking information? Let's at least be honest about where the information is coming from. Even look at the most recent situation Destiny never mentioned it about Lav is was Bigtech who leaked it because Lav was talking shit about Destiny in DM's. Do we have a single example of Destiny doing the same thing? What's the most recent example of him doing this?
@@RealFreedomMG okay, I can give you that. People do leak things on him. But if he was concerned about his privacy, he wouldn't then go on to produce hours of content covering the leaks. He knows full well that any drama will blow over in a few days, but he farms it, and recently has started wheeling out this "wow it's so crazy that my relationships are like other people's playground" shit. Video titles reference the leaked Lav/BigTech DMs. The thumbnails literally show the DMs. He spends ages talking about the leaks/everything related to them on stream. This is not even close to the celebrity/paparazzi dynamic that the original comment paints it as. Destiny has put a lot of effort into making his personal life the public's business, and has insisted all the while he is okay with that being the case. If he regrets that now and wants to change course that's totally fair, but this having his cake and eating it too thing is bullshit
This was literally someone just throwing stuff at the wall until something sticks. Whoever this guy questioning Destiny is really irritated me. The questions he was asking really exposed how he actually feels about destiny. He comes off like he has hidden resentment. A lot of the things he said weren’t worth bringing up. Plus whenever someone says “a lot of people say” then proceeds to say something negative that very few have commented it’s really something they agree with. It also feels like he just wanted air time. His line of questioning sucked. Very passive aggressive. Be direct. At one point he literally asked him his position on prostitution which is pretty much irrelevant.
Dude is a Destiny fan. He's the guy making the documentary on Destiny and DGG on Terminally Online Media. Not everyone is as crazy as yall. He's just good at interviewing people.
I love that the slightest pushback from someone gets so much cope. No wonder Max thinks you guys are in a cult. The rest of DGG disavows you people. If you watch Tom's show, you'd know he interviewed Mr Girl and gave him pushback on the same things. Tom is easily one of the smartest people in this space. But I guess if he doesn't suck Destiny off then it's hard for you kids to finish so now you're mad you got blue balls.
"Who tf is this guy" - preach after watching Max try to get legal custody over a streamer
The Lav is my daughter bit has to be the biggest L on the Internet right now. (%100 concentrated Cringe)
@@MuscleboundKageThe entire obsession of a few grown adults to try to destroy the life of another grown adult because they don’t agree with the way he puts his dick in things did it for me.
Really happy for Destiny that he was able to succesfully cope himself into believing that without Mr Girl, the Lav relationship would ave worked out
Probably, you give her waaay too much credit...... She has just enough IQ points to speak English, come on now....
Where'd the chat go :( I can't just make my own reaction from scratch wtf
based
I’m not 100% but it may be portions that are streamed on rumble/kick where it’s much harder to moderate and needs removed from RUclips
@@cambienvenu at least for kick now dgg chat works and is shown on screen, it might have been a rumble day
@cambienvenu No, Cake (the site dev) fucked up the chat with something he did. It got fixed later that day.
God I’m glad it’s gone I had no idea how much I disliked the chat until watching a vid where it’s not there
The inevitable Lav betrayal of Mr. Girl is going to be so tremendous that I almost feel bad for him.
Mr. Girl is a narcissistic idiot, but Lav is genuinely a bad person.
I think she routinely positions herself to LOOK as though she's the vulnerable one to cover her behaviour while she manipulates people and situations to get what she wants. What she wants normally being attention.
"I need men to be obsessed with me." - Lav.
How is Mr. Girl, the narcissistic, abusive, rapist pedophile, not a bad person if Lav is, in your view?
Mr. Girl is pretty obviously a bad person too and there are so many hints that he’s a calculated manipulator.
Hard disagree. I think Mr Girl is 1000% a narcissist but not an idiot. He’s just deluded and based on his actual behaviors, and self admitted vices, he’s a bad person. Lav to me, is just a crazy person.
@@giovalladares1022 I agree with you, I don’t think any of her actions are intentional, indeed just a crazy person
@@giovalladares1022 Crazy implies, at least to me, a person who is out of control and possibly experiencing / interpreting a reality different from the base reality experienced by most people. I don't think Lav is out of control, I think she knows exactly what she's doing but is rather impulsive in her decision making. I think she has a perception of the world colored by her own prejudices which skews basically everything incoming and outgoing.
Lav's unforgivable sin will always be her forcing us to defend someone as repulsive as Hasan Piker
Lmao…are you trolling?
Ikr. You gotta be a special kind of stupid to make me side with hasan
@@Wellthen76351 So that’s the worst thing, eh?
Hasan is an idiot. But he’s not some psychopath asshole.
Big true.
bayzed
imagine how successful lav would be if she didnt say anything but licked an ear shaped mic instead
I love how Max tries to paint a history of abuse with Destiny to prove he's an abuser. But also thinks it's crazy that people think he's abusive to shaelin when he has a way crazier history of abuse. From actually physically assaulting a woman he was in a relationship with to penetrating a chick after she said no. Then all those crazy videos with Shaelin. But nah apparently his history doesn't count
It's so crazy that people use the argument that "Anna had more to lose". Yeah.... so don't pick a fight that you're going to lose more than you're willing to. If I punch a boxer in the face he's not wrong to punch me back. I'm going to get hurt more but that's my bad for picking that fight.
I’ve heard destiny reference the mrgirl “parking lot” video multiple times (38:43). Does anybody know/have a link to that video?
You should correct the name of the caller: Tom Foolery Show
The problem with max is that it isn't a boss/employee situation. If anything destiny basically invited him to live with him since he got kicked out of his own home and as the times went on the rest of Destiny's housemates found out why max got kicked out in the first place with how insane he is.
What happened?
@@100lines4 probably a nonce I’m guessing
U dont financially profit like that
I agree with Chud's take on this. Your being trapped on Destiny's stream is a skill issue. It just means that you are bad at making content. You don't ever have to go on Destiny's stream, you can make your own good content.
@@Ryan_404 It can be, do you have any secondary stuff you are talking about? This feels a bit vague postie.
the last few minutes are absolutely balls to the wall insane. you would be hard fucking pressed to find anyone who, if they found out their therapist or counsellor was the first one to leak nudes, would be cool with keeping that person as their therapist.
Tom did a really good job in this interview. His convos with Max & Destiny are super good faith, no gotchas and I feel like I understand the other person's positions and thought process a lot more after. We need people like him in this space. Not too many tho please.
Yeah Tom is a stand up guy
If I found out my therapist leaked sexts or anything sexual at all from someone they were with, I wouldn’t just trust them less, I’d switch therapists right then and there.
Btw no one mentions this but Ana did leak her sexting with Destiny and he never leaked her nudes...so even that "abuse" story shows Destiny has more restraint than people deserve.
Maybe sue them lol
I don't think Destiny is correct when he says the abuser needs power over you in the extent that they can 'destroy you'. All they need is the FEEL like you could destroy them. That power dynamic doesn't actually have to exist. That's where other manipulation tactics come in like gaslighting. So I think the argument Mr. Girl would make is that the people Destiny 'abuses' FEEL like their livelihood is in his hands. They see people who have crossed Destiny like Bob7 completely disappear. I think there are plenty of reasons this doesn't fully apply here, but this would be a more accurate stance to argue against.
Any delusional person can just passively feel like someone else can destroy them... that doesn't make the relationship inherently abusive. The potential 'abuser' has to specifically suggest that they would exercise the option.
It's like arguing that rich people, police officers, public officials, priests, etc... can't ask/expect anything of anyone without the relationship being inherently unethical/abusive if the other person somehow just FEELS they could be destroyed.
That's why Max's general "there is a power differential, therefore it's unethical" is just wrong. Say you're a police officer. We all have an inherent understanding that if a police officer really wanted to, they could destroy us. By that argument, a police officer can't possibly ever enter an ethical relationship (romantic/business/friendship/other) with anyone other than another police officer of equal rank.
The perpetrator has to make specific effort to suggest you'd be destroyed. It can't be just because you just FEEL like it could happen. Because we essentially all FEEL that about police officers already.
Just to be clear, I don't think what Destiny is doing is abuse. I think he has done things in a fairly responsible way. I'm sure your response has more to do with Max's point of view. Did you read the full take and come to the conclusion I was saying anytime someone feels like they are trapped, it is abuse? I'm more or less saying Destiny is arguing against a specific type of abuse, and ignoring another type that CAN exist. The point is, there doesn't always have to be a REAL power dynamic. If I threaten to release something on you, or turn your friends against you, or anything else, BUT I don't have the ability to do that, then there is perceived power that doesn't exist, but you would agree that is abuse because the perpetrator made a specific effort (this part isn't meant to argue against you, but just to show that a threat doesn't need to be real for it to be abuse).
To take it further, If I know you THINK your livelihood is tied to my stream, even if I know you would be fine without me, but I take advantage of that feeling, I am still being abusive. I don't believe the perpetrator has to make an effort to suggest that. Taking advantage of a fear that is caused by something other than you, is more than enough to constitute abuse. This is a difficult thing to talk about because we can never know someone's intent, but that is the point of looking through all of the evidence. I don't think Max was even close to proving this in his article. I just think Destiny misspoke when he gave his definition for abuse is all.
Not only that but I think most people would say Ana was abusive towards Destiny yet I don't think that dynamic existed.
I wish these people would hold politicians accountable the way they are trying to hold Destiny accountable.
Politicians don't send hoards of psychos to harrass and dox you for looking into their history and writing an article about them. I think this hits closer to home than a politician could ever.
@@mrbanks456 what's the article about my friend?
The main difference, and I'm not saying that this is fair, is that Destiny has hundreds of hours of himself on the internet. _Generally,_ people will not go out of their way to look for bad things others have done in the past. But when you have a lot of that out in the open on the internet, it becomes a lot easier for people to do that because it takes less effort.
This is why you normally don't see nobodies getting canceled. As for politicians, they know they'll get more eyes on them for runnning for office, so they probably make more of an effort than the average person to hide bad things that they've done in the past and/or are currently doing.
Content creators also do this, but to a lesser extent, since producing content necessarily has to show at least some aspect of themselves. Streamers do this less than other content creators because their content is pretty much unedited and much longer than other forms of content.
And Destiny does this even less than the average streamer, though that's not to say he doesn't do it at all.
@@VelCroweBar A retaliatory streamer who abuses his power to carry out his retaliations, harrass and belittle people for entertainment.
@@mrbanks456 is retaliation always bad? In the cases mentioned in this video, they seemed like justified retaliation or not retaliation at all. Not to mention before the article Mr girl was saying destiny was sexually abusing to women before dropping the sexual part because nobody corroborated that at all right?
"I'm shredded now." -Destiny 2023
Except when he goes on No Jumper
Sorry but Booksmarts might have started his streaming because of Destiny but he was literally making money from writing essays and tutoring and could go back to that any time he wanted (he even talked about this on stream)
No chat ? August plz I loving reading chat in these videos !!!
It's cake 😢
What do you mean? Friend relationship is just as confidential, sometimes even more than client patient relationship.
The employee comparison is just so nonsensical I don't know why anyone brings it up. If it's anything, it's more like a successful freelancer vs a less sucsessful freelancer.
Any possible bad dynamics you want to discuss, fall flat if you use an analogy that makes no sense.
They are not dependent on Destiny, they go on Destiny so they can get more views on their own channel and make a career out of it. Just like how a big artist collabs with a smaller artist, the smaller artist is not dependent on the bigger artist forever.
Lmfaoo where are his fans on the subreddit it’s clearly not working
@@saulmendez2276 Well it not working is not on Destiny, its on him. Thats like is a small artist who worked with Madonna says shes dependent on Madonna now, and Madonna is the reason she doesnt have fans?
@@faysalals1 legit look what happended to adept legit disproves your entier argument
how many ex orbiters who had drama with Destiny are still relevant on their own?
@@appleseed4672 Brittany Simon
How are these people reaching adulthood?
Where is chat??? Hardly worth sitting through without DGG reactions.
Want to be therapist suffering from leaked...
Most damaging thing that therapist can have if they themselves leaked someone's personal stuff... Oh Destiny saw that also, sharp boy.
2:34 that’s way too narrow of a definition. The victim, in no way, needs to have limited or compromised ability to leave the situation. People can physically, verbally, or emotionally abuse each other without being restricted from leaving. I think a better definition of abuse is recurring assault or harassment on the victim, whether that’s physical, verbal, or emotional. The victim could stay in that abusive relationship without them having their ability to leave compromised. Unless you consider the victim as being ignorant of being abused as a restriction.
Can you give me an example of abuse where the person's ability to leave is not compromised in some easy?
I'd be interested in hearing an example as well. Cuz I wonder if you would include emotional restrictions when considering if a victim is able to leave.
Tom did an awesome job in this interview. I like that someone a little more removed and objective is able to ask people questions like this. His interview with Max might be the best one of all 6.
Autistic questions that nobody needed to ask
He trippin on the nudes = sexting, especially from a females perspective
That beginning conversation about power dynamics between large age gapped couples is just so weird to me. I get that in Tom's mind he thinks he's being a good guy having such a discussion with his then girlfriend, but it just feels like such a weird thing to bring up as if it's even remotely a possibility and it's odd that he felt the need to have that discussion with them given it was himself. Like does he not trust himself? Is he capable of abusing someone? Just seems like he's questioning his own character at that point. If I were in that persons shoes I would have felt pretty uncomfortable with that.
I feel like he was trying to get at the idea of "the person in authority would be wise to get agreement in writing" as a way to cover your ass, but was hellbent on framing it as the person's responsibility & if they didn't, they are culpable to any allegation by the other party (or even a 3rd party)
You can tell he doesn't have a strong case by how shaken he is navigating it
No, I think it's very possible to overstep boundaries without realising it, some people don't even realise that they should have certain boundries about things, untill it's too late, and things get complicated. It's always better to have your partner speak up about something that's bothering them, than just take it and likely turn resentful as a result.
If you're older and more experienced, you might as well use that experience as a tool to enrich your relationships and increase positive outcomes by having these conversations, and avoiding certain situations.
Of course, tact is of utmost importance when navigating these things.
Tom started that question off by saying people looked at him like he was doing something wrong no matter what so he took precautionary measures. I've had this exact conversation for the sake reasons. Anyone who thinks you're doing something wrong likely won't accept "It feels cringe" or "That's condescending" as a reason for being abusive lol Tom said before going into this interview that he doesn't have staunch positions on this and that's why he wanted to ask questions.
He seems really sketchy
Damn dude I thought you brought Dr K on the show for a second
Tomfoolery gave great pushback
I like to see destiny challenged like that especially when it's good faith
How is this pushback?
@kenonerboy So when Destiny gives an answer, and Tom says "Well here's a reason why some people would disagree" or "That doesn't make sense to me. Here's why" I think most people would call that pushback. He's getting Destiny to rethink his answer or give more clarification. Just as he did in his interview with Mr Girl.
@@mainevent9435 more like mushback
@@kenonerboy you need it to be a debate to call it pushback? It's an interview. Touch grass.
@Main Event i mean considering the 180 on mrgirl i think a bit more biting questions would be fine. Interviews dont have to be coddle sessions. And sure i could go out on my lawn more often
He didnt mean plausible deniability from the law, he meant from other streamers and fans
Ya I think Destiny knew that. Tom said after he was disappointed in the lack of detail in the later questions but he also thinks Destiny is tired of answering the same things.
"my community disagrees with me a healthy amount"
yeah, for a few hours before you wake up and purge your reddit.
I feel like the power dynamic might be more comparable to:
when we’re kids, and we have a friend who is more fortunate then us.
They have cool shit they let you enjoy their cool shit and it’s great.
Then if the relationship sours, you’re no longer benefiting.
But, you were never entitled to those things, and that kid can be as illogical as he wants (not that destiny has been so) in rescinding his friendship and by that losing those material benefits allowed by that friendship.
Let me know what you think!
"I'm 10 years older than you."
"Ye, no shit"
"Oh... Ok..."
Is that how he imagined it?
There's a reason why these people live on stream. I wouldn't call this interview "Dateline" worthy.
11:20 - Talk about a turn-off. If a guy did this, it would be an immediate concern (and buzzkill).
MrGirl and Lav are still justifying people's reasons for hating them.
You are justifying my reasons to be annoyed by your spam comments
@@LUNDYLUNDYLUNDY yesss this guy posts the same exact comment every single video fishing for likes. It's so fuckin cringe lol. He doesn't even change it up, lavs not even the subject of this video. Just a turtle you can't be so obvious man, you gotta change it up or actually respond to the video. You want to be a cringe lord?
copy paste bot
I always summarize all this drama to two people being obsessed with destiny, and the attention his gaze gets them.
the obsession is reciprocated, obviously. destiny is just as invested as they r tbh
@@DavidJones-ot8qu ehhhh I think he just responds to them, but hey I’m a new fan so I’m not quite sure
@@_.beauu._3897 he responds to everything they do, and when they started this, he was super upset literally saying that he was never going to get close to ppl again. he pretends to be nonchalant as a defense, but obviously this shit pulls at him pretty harshly
@@DavidJones-ot8qu It would pull at me too so I get it 🤷🏽♀️
@@_.beauu._3897 it definitely makes sense, but the issue is that he pretends that it doesn’t because he’s also severely mentally ill
I feel like they keep framing destiny and mr.messed up in the heads previous relationship like a boss and employee but it was more like a company(destiny) and an affiliate marketer (mr.girl). Mr.girls entire issue is that destiny wouldn't do shit exactly like how he wants. Every conversation I've heard between them was mr.girl complaining that destiny should believe what mr.girl wants him to believe and any deviation of ideology is met with hostility.
1:35 if you can just leave then your not abused is very worrying line of logic. This is a common misunderstanding of DV such as spousal abuse that contributes to issues in society addressing it.
This guy sounds like hes never been in a relationship in his entire life. People aren't contracts, you can't just disclose 5 pages of what "might happen" etc etc, that just makes them lose trust in you.
If she has a lot more to lose then shouldn't her behavior be extra cool without her threatening people, would you want a therapist that you knew threatened to leak naked pics of someone that they LIKED??
Who is asking the questions?
Tom Foolery Show
FOOLS RISING
It makes no sense. If Destiny wanted to attack Ana, why would he ban everything that is related to her? But then send people to KiwiFarms? It all makes no sense.
The goal was to stop the harassment. If ignoring worked, Destiny would have done that. Better, he has done that and it didn't work.
Why do these people always bring up the same ideas that don't work.
Then why did he do a blackout?
I have never understood factorio, I dont understand this game, and I dont understand starcraft. It's almost frustrating because I see him doing the same shit over and over but I dont know what the fuck happened by the end of the video
This looks like a fortress type battle strategy game. Basically the things with the red dots are like enemy soldiers attacking and hes building a base and sending out his own soldiers(the green ones) to hold them back. Basically the game is about starting with a limited amount of resources and you have to build up a base and establish ways to make more money while still having enough to pay soldiers to protect it against waves of increasing scale and difficulty
what is this convo even lol. He's just poorly playing devils advocate and doesnt even seem to agree with his own positions
What's that parking lot video everyone talks about?
I love your blue hair.
holy shit, how stupid can we get by making everything internet-complicated. its really not that hard. Abuse, is use of power in an unintended way. (the power was not granted for that use).
Like Omg! It's more drama! Like no wayz 😱what did Lav say? C'mon spill the tea!
I've been out of the Destiny sphere since he moved more to being a drama channel. It's weird how the framing people keep seeming to come up with is "Destiny exposes Mr Girl not great" when he boosted his platform serveral thousand fold and personally contributed to his access to people.
Is he really skipping the part where he platformed all the shitty people out of spite literally amplifying anyone right wing he came across for the drama? Then he sits there and talks about he "came out against them" months and months after every left wing person who interacted with them went "Well duh".
And once again HE brought them in! It's like the Kanye, Milo and Fuentez combo when they got to Trump, Alex Jones and Tim Pool and the way they all went "What? The clear white supremacists and nazis are saying bad things?!?" *gasp*
Why should we care what MrGirl feels? His feelings are not reality.
Wow... You got Tom's point. Well done little buddy.
Making people Defend Hasan Piker must be a capital offence.
are we really questioning Melina's independence and whether their relationship has a power dynamic when mr girl literally 'adopted' and adult young woman
I mean every smaller streamers profits from going to bigger streamers chanel. So every smaller streamers career depend on Hasan and Vaush? But they never let anyone on, so do they harm smaller streamers? It is such a weird way to accuse someone.
The alternative is that Destiny doesn't allow smaller streamers on the show anymore. So Tom wouldn't be able to hold this interview right now.
tom wants to talk to you, fyi
Stop running from Tom. You just moved from one comment section to another.
Debate Tom Foolery
"grilled"
I'm still holding $LAV
22:32 the real question is not whether Destiny purposely sent people there, it’s that he didn’t care if he did. He could have made that announcement without saying specifics. This is where the plausible deniability comes from.
If your whole career depends on coming on destiny's stream you were boring anyway and weren't gonna make it
So is destiny not saying mrgirl is an abuser until he came out against him proof of simple retaliation or that destiny will conceal a negative perspective of a friend from the audience?
it’s actually a lot simpler, like all humans he changed his mind when he was given more information on a person
@@flshcrd what information did he have after that he didn't have before?
@@theeendo3677 i think what he said was after he watched one of mr girls conversations with lav he saw how manipulative and abusive he was, and you can see in that reaction how his mind changes completely about him but then the next day either mr girl announces his article or destiny finds out about it through ppl he reached out to so it was in a short time frame but it wasn’t in retaliation, plus the drudging up stuff using weird/unethical methods also could have an effect on his view of max
I want some content on his past conman life cause I don't see it lol
Go to his channel then. Tom Foolery Show. His stories are nuts.
I actually know Tom IRL. His past is wild. To think he went from being a junky conman to being the corporate linguist he is today is hard to believe. He talks about this stuff on stream regularly.
@@sarahlancaster1325 I’ll have to check him out then. Need to see this adventure
@@drangc0bex119 He answered some questions about it at the beginning of stream today before reviewing the Milo debate.
Has Mr Redacted released the dossier yet?
MrGirl didn't jump on your stream that often compared to some orbiters, there was a period where he was outwardly self-conscious about leaning on you.
His RUclips ban really fucked him up. Which is understandable (it’s career-ending).
Karma’s a bitch.
Imagine simping for any RUclipsr especially MrGirl.
I love watching the drama but this is pathetic on another level.
The guy interviewing Destiny is DGG. He's been ripping on Mr Girl for weeks lol
You're a little too fragile if you think this interview is simping for Mr Girl...
If your career on the internet or as a influencer or whatever is based on one person making you famous you probably shouldnt be famous
Has there ever been proof that Ana is actually a student? She’s like 30 plus now right?
you can go to college at any age lol.
@@jerichojones2722 she’s been an almost-grad student for like 4 years. either she is taking one class a semester, or she’s lying, or she just failed
People can float around between grad programs, projects and PhDs for years just working as a research assistant. So it's at least technically possible.
I’d love to know what Destiny’s definition of “shredded” is. Because I think he might be a lil off the mark.
He's clearly joking genius
@@wandarah Ya think?
@@John-mf1sz whoooosh
@@richardricardo802 …
Who the F is pro Mr Girl?
Common Tom W
"I thought you were saying that you didn't want them talking about what Ana was doing--"
Oh, that's because you weren't listening properly.
A repeated issue of all conversations nowadays tbh. Perhaps a skill that's getting lost due to internet discussion format, bleeding into irl. Or just always was presents at lower frequency, but is more common now. Cause *not listening properly* certainly seems to be more common now.
26:11 most of them dude lol
i was a conman for a long time nice lie
are they talking about Ana the ukranian girl?
No, they are talking about a different Anna. But Destiny took down all his videos with her in a deal.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 ah alright thanks
Not yet 😉
I thought Shaelin was a victim before I even knew Max was actually abusive. One look at her screams daddy issues.
Maxis meaning to abuse
Artistic
Baby
Upset
So
Emotes
I’m over trying to fnd credence to this toddler , it’s like hypotheeing why a gecko licks its eyes
Interesting for a minute ✨
* snaps in appreciation *
10:33 no wonder Destiny doesn’t think he’s abusive. It all makes so much sense now.
Hmm I think Destiny would be better off just apologizing for directing his audience to the Kiwi farms thread. It is probably the only actually bad thing he's done in this whole scenario and it sounds like he's retroactively justifying it.
Apologise to who?
Unless I misunderstood, didn’t he tell his chat to keep their doxxing off his chat and to go to kiwi farms if they wanted to do that? I mean, not super responsible but also not abusive IMO
Yeah I wish he would have just owned that. Like this is what I was thinking at the time, but really it wasn't a great move. But maybe one day he will
@@giovalladares1022 Destiny never mentioned doxxing at all he was telling people who want to keep bringing up Ana to leave his channel.
Which is funny because it's been years and people are still wanting to talk about Ana lol
1:50 Desitny wouldnt ever consider a man in a spousal relationship unable toget away but for some reason women cant get away in a spousal relationship because........ Not because they are locked out of making money becuase thats his excuse as to why relationships are hard for men to even qualify that women arent locked out of making money.
Often domestic abuse victims are attacked/murdered shortly after leaving so I think it’s more complicated than how much money someone makes. The person has often been isolated from other supports (family or friends), may have pets or children threatened directly or indirectly, may threaten to self harm or game over if the person leaves, repeatedly impress upon them their uselessness and powerlessness… It’s a complicated problem.
:)
Idk why destiny gives Tom so much time of day.
Looks like you're alone there buddy
Have you ever watched Tom's show? I think it's pretty clear to everyone else.
Technically there is always some kind of "currency" exchanged in every sexual encounter. I mean unless you literally just see someone, give them the stare, then have sex and never speak again lol. Taking someone on a date is you "paying" for sex, depending on how you look at it 🤷♀️
Is it just me or is this dude trying to get the answer he wants by asking the same question 10 different ways?
“Has DiCaprio ever got into trouble dating young girls…I mean he’s only dating young girls, right?” Ever episode is Destiny trying to justify his degeneracy and his “arrangements.”
it’s insane too, because this could be said about female school teachers that rape their young boy students. many ppl support it, so it must be fine
Tom is really trying to rid women of all agency here
L
I think destinys a creep
Then follow Tom 🤷♂️
Mr girl is right about destiny.
Nope, he's deluded.
Destiny's definition of abuse is... Lacking and not even applicable in most abuse situations. What he said CAN be a part of an abusive situation, but it's nothing to do with the act itself.
Ok provide a better one then for us to consider
@Jessie see i get what you're saying with that but I disagree. From my perspective there are many reasons why people can't leave(perceived can't/ costly, this is how I interpret it because imo virtually nothing is impossible) such as in your example leaving as an adult would mean removing yourself from any form of relationship with your mother which other than them changing their behavior would be the only way to stop that abusive cycle so I would argue you are emotionally and mentally trapped. This is why I don't have a problem with the legal definition of sex trafficking because I would argue those victims have been psychologically and emotionally trapped.
@Jessie but in that case you could say the same for the child as a dependent no? There are certainly plenty of examples of children running away from home and trying to survive on their own some more successful than others.
In my opinion we have to allow for trapped to include emotionally or psychologically trapped as this then lets the definition make perfect sense. If not then I agree it doesn't apply to abuse very well as a definition but then the subsequent definition you need to come up with will have to be more verbose I think but I haven't tried to come up with a more succinct definition so perhaps that's not the case.
It’s crazy how many twitch streamers feel entitled to ask destiny questions about his relationship.
Rs shit makes me uncomfortable idk how he is cool wit it😭😭😭
not really when he goes out of his way to make every detail about it public, and farms it for content. You're just regurgitating his cope lol
@@NocturnalNick bro c'mon. Destiny is a very reserved individual. His most popular content right now is purely political theory and discussions about philosophy. That's what pays the bills
@@NocturnalNick does he go out of his way to make the details public or is it other people who are leaking information?
Let's at least be honest about where the information is coming from. Even look at the most recent situation Destiny never mentioned it about Lav is was Bigtech who leaked it because Lav was talking shit about Destiny in DM's. Do we have a single example of Destiny doing the same thing? What's the most recent example of him doing this?
@@RealFreedomMG okay, I can give you that. People do leak things on him. But if he was concerned about his privacy, he wouldn't then go on to produce hours of content covering the leaks. He knows full well that any drama will blow over in a few days, but he farms it, and recently has started wheeling out this "wow it's so crazy that my relationships are like other people's playground" shit. Video titles reference the leaked Lav/BigTech DMs. The thumbnails literally show the DMs. He spends ages talking about the leaks/everything related to them on stream.
This is not even close to the celebrity/paparazzi dynamic that the original comment paints it as. Destiny has put a lot of effort into making his personal life the public's business, and has insisted all the while he is okay with that being the case. If he regrets that now and wants to change course that's totally fair, but this having his cake and eating it too thing is bullshit
The guy asking questions is way too invested in this.
This guy is trying to be civil while asking career ending questions.
This was literally someone just throwing stuff at the wall until something sticks. Whoever this guy questioning Destiny is really irritated me. The questions he was asking really exposed how he actually feels about destiny. He comes off like he has hidden resentment. A lot of the things he said weren’t worth bringing up. Plus whenever someone says “a lot of people say” then proceeds to say something negative that very few have commented it’s really something they agree with. It also feels like he just wanted air time. His line of questioning sucked. Very passive aggressive. Be direct. At one point he literally asked him his position on prostitution which is pretty much irrelevant.
No, Tom just isn't very bright at all
Dude is a Destiny fan. He's the guy making the documentary on Destiny and DGG on Terminally Online Media. Not everyone is as crazy as yall. He's just good at interviewing people.
I love that the slightest pushback from someone gets so much cope. No wonder Max thinks you guys are in a cult. The rest of DGG disavows you people. If you watch Tom's show, you'd know he interviewed Mr Girl and gave him pushback on the same things. Tom is easily one of the smartest people in this space. But I guess if he doesn't suck Destiny off then it's hard for you kids to finish so now you're mad you got blue balls.
This guy consistently brought up destiny abusing Ana as if that really happened. Passive aggressive as hell. He should have just been direct
he didn’t abuse her, but he definitely took advantage of an extraordinary desperate person which is still pretty gross
He was being direct. He doesn't have an opinion on whether or not it's abusive, as he said.