I never got the chance to hunt growing up, nor to meet my dad or grandpa. I always enjoy Ron’s videos. I feel like he would be just like my grandpa. His knowledge rings true almost every time.
I know my dad but, he cant legally own a gun, and has never been outside, other than boyscouts when he was 14. I'd kill to have the chance to go hunting with someone with Ron's knowledge. I suppose maybe one day I will be able to pay for a guided hunt or something but, that sounds lame to me. I am in texas tho so, i cant hunt unless i own land and at this point in my life, we can pretty much guarantee that is never going to happen lol
@@apollow_g1025 Are you telling us that citizens of the state of Texas ,(not just a resident) , can not hunt in that state unless they own property, even if they had permission from the land owner ; or is it that the land owners are so greedy & charge so much money that you could not afford to hunt ??
@@robertmintz63 In the west, as opposed to Texas, we often hunt on public lands, mostly Federal land, BLM or USFS. There's also some county land in places. In Texas there's only one "small" piece land administered by the BLM on the south side of the Canadian River. There's considerably more (around 60 times more) National Forest/Grassland land, though very little area compared to the size of the state. You'ld have to research the regulations to find out whether the Feds even open any of that land to hunting. The land owners that charge for hunting might regard using Fenderal to hunt for free unfair competition. When you look at the land holding patterns of Texas, the state is more typical of mid-west states. Land ownership is dominated by private "agricultural" concerns and gas and oil extraction concerns.
USMC-1967, we zeroed our M-14’s at 25yards, then rezeroed/doped at 100, 200, 300 and 500 meters and you were good to go. Iron sights at 500 meters….the eyes were 56 years younger…..
Your story reminds me of a gent I met at our club. 1987 we had 100yd bullseye competition. This guy was a WW2 Canadian soldier. He stands at the line with his favorite Brno 30-06 open sights smoke in the corner of his mouth. Aims and puff of smoke comes out . Second puff of smoke and shot goes off scores a 10.
@@kdean8129 Not a bad routine. The Marines had an acronym: BRASS. Breathe Relax Aim Slack Squeeze. About as fast as you could say those words to yourself-breathe-hold your breath, relax, aim, slack-take up the minuscule slack in the trigger and fire. If you wait too long, your sights will start to wobble all over the place and you’ll be lucky if you hit the target next to you. If you wait too long to fire a round, start the procedure over. Footnote: In Boot Camp, if you did hit the target next to you, you were subject to “DIIP.” “Drill Instructor Induced Pulverization.” 😆
Hey Ron, another great video, sir. I know AR-15s aren't Your thing,however in the Army back in the 80s when an AR-15 (M16A1) with 55 grain FMJ was zeroed for qualification the two position rear sight was flipped to Long Range 300 meters and fired in a 3 round group at 25 meters and once a proper zero was achieved then the soldier went to the qualification range with pop up silhouette targets from 50-300 meters. While the 5.56 is relatively flat shooting cartridge the difference between the 0-200 and L for long made the difference that mattered, and I still remember a picture in our individual soldiers manual of the trajectory arc of the round at 25 meters thur 300 meters. Again thanks Ron for all of your great work, sir !
In the Marines, we zeroed at 30 yards, and it was the equivalent of 300 yards (M16A2 with iron sights). This is based on the trajectory of the 5.56. The bullet crosses your sight line at 30 yards on the way up, and it again crosses your sight line at 300 yards on the way down. It was pretty spot on for that rifle and that ammo. EDIT: It was apparently 36 yards. That was a LOOOONG time ago, so memory is fuzzy.
In the Army we had a 30M known distance range we zeroed on. When I arrived at Camp Howze Korea in 1988 it was about 2300 ma and 4 other guys met the First Sergeant got fitted for our promask and zeroed our weapons on the KD Range they had set up. They handed us a packing list and the next morning was a 12 mile road march
Hello Ron, My father taught us to shoot 1 inch low at 25 yrds with our 30-06 to be 3 inches high at 100 yrds.... we did this religiously all growing up.... then we always shot at 100 yrds to be certain.....we were all shooting 30-06 7600 pump carbines...and this worked well! Mike in tip top Northern Vermont.
I like to use the ballistic chart for the ammo I'm using to find what close range I can zero at to get me close at 100 yards. I'm glad Ron covered this in the video.
@@Dcm193Thanks Dom, I'm certainly finding that out. I need to chronograph the loads to get a truer average MV and then see how the ballistic table from the app compares on drop at certain ranges.
Great video Ron. What I did this year is I set up a target at 200 yards and sighted in my .308. I’m shooting 3/4 of an inch high at that range, so I’m probably bang on at 225 yards. At 100 yards, I’m roughly 2.25 inches high. To me, 2 inches high at 100 yards is almost ideal if you are using non BDC reticles.
I've always preferred having around a 2 to 3" high point of impact at 100 yards for most of my rifles. It sure makes longer shots easier to take, out to a reasonable distance of course. My Son took his longest shot on a deer at 366 yards and didn't need to hold off of the deers body. Good Content Ron. Thanks for sharing.
Great video, as usual. I stumbled onto this knowledge a few years ago while playing around with distances at the range. I was already zeroed for 200 yards with my 6.5 Creed, but I decided to take some shots at 50 yards to see where it hit. To my surprise, it was nearly dead on. Since then, I've started by zeroing my new guns at 50 yards (since my local range only has 50-yard increments). This gets me on paper and within a few inches of where I need to be when I back it up to 200. Point being, it's a good way to save some ammo whether you have a long range to shoot at or not.
I've been doing this on family and friend's rifles over 30 years. I bore sight at 33 yards and shoot once. I then make scope adjustments ( measuered inches) X 3. That puts me Really close at 100 while only shooting one round. You can then fine tune at 100-400 yards.. I like 2+3 inches high at 100 in my .308. thats puts me close at 200 and only 5-6 low at 300.👍
35 yard zero is a good combat zero at 100 you are 4" above bullseye 200 5", 300 -2.5 ,400 aim at the head.100 yard zero at 200 5" above bullseye,300 you are dropping 15.5 " so 35 yard zero it's the best for 308
I've used a 50 yard zero for years, after lots of shooting with different caliber rifles I've found that is the best over all zero for me. Thanks Ron for another great video.
Your spot on! Being a gun collector over 60 years and a hunter and reloader that’s what I sight my rifles in at too! Hundreds of rifles has proven it best! 5 generations of hunters and my grandfather was a marksman in the military so I have been around rifles my whole life and some of the best shooters as well and it also helps that I am good friend with the best gunsmith in the whole state who is a retired PRS shooter
@@lanceroberthough1275 I don't understand what's not simple about a 50 yard zero, all the rifles I shoot are anywhere from 1 inch to 2 inch high at 100 and within 2 inches plus or midus at 200 and again within 2 inches plus or midus at 250 which is perfect for my hunting or defense needs.
I read about this sighting method in the late '80s in an article published on the 1950's. I remembered that in 1974 we sighted our M16s at Ft. Lewis WA basic at 25 meters which would correspond to almost 28yard. The ammo we were using was the 62 grain ball which was rated at 2800-2900 fps. The light came on and I have used this method for over 35 years for sighting in firearms ever since but few have ever believed me. Thank you for bringing it back to our consciousness and please push it hard in the shooting sports. It will save everyone a ton of ammo and leg work!
Basic, AIT and OCS 1968-69 zeroed M14,M16 at 25m. Used ever since, in East in my area, if you get 100m shot it’s unusual most 50m or less. If you know the ballistics you would aim accordingly. Shooting off hand, as my professor would say an insignificant figure.
I figured out a long time ago a basic: the rifle IS sighted in, it is the SCOPE that has to adjust to the rifle. Ron is spot on about moving the cross-hair from the aim point to the bullet hole, and, yes, it is easier to do with two people, one holding the rifle, the other turning the knobs. I don't do 'higher math' to sight-in. I just start out at 25 yards, move to 50 and then 100 and get the group where I want it there.
I used a some tips from this channel to sight my rifle. I got close and pulled out the bolt looked through the barrel then adjusted my scope. Moved back 30 yards about and had it sighted with 3 or 4 shots. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot any further yet. But my thumb pad covered all my shots. Great advice. Saved me from wasting ammo doing it wrong.
Great video Ron ... I use to have a Proffesor at uni in mechanics and hes go to saying was 'you can only manage what you can quantify' .... this video just reemphasised that point ... measure/know (quantify, dont guess) your variables and you can manage/predict the down range results ....important fundementals every hunter should consider and be aware of
Another great video. I do at times sight rifles in at 25 yards. You've given me a lot of useful information in this video especially with the ballistic charts and calculators. Thank you sir..
I didn't see any mention of the "cold bore shot". Everybody has their own opinion but when it comes to hunting, my thoughts are pretty simple. It's the first shot that really counts and if the rifle has a COLD BORE and like most rifles shoots a bit different than when the bore is heated up, it's wiser to know where that first shot is going. Just one man's opinion.
Take the MV of the ammo in fps and divide it by 100. That give the range in yards to set the target and sight in. It helps to use a chronograph to get the starting velocity. I've used this method of sighting in for at least 35 years.
I have been paying attention to the ballistic charts in the videos, and when applicable to what I shoot I have found it interesting. This time I followed along using the suggested resources (Hornady ballistic calculator and ammunition pages) and I found some insight into zeroing a rifle I had been missing. I copied the data into a few spread sheets, made some comparisons, and found specific ammunition and desired zero distances for a few of my rifles. Thanks Ron! You are the champion, my friend. :-)
Thank you for posting this ,I been trying to find a site that will work out for me since the one I had did not work anymore on my computer. Also going into details of what to do and how to measure for the height of the scope and the front sight . Always learning from you .
Thank you. This information is gold. I'm a newbie hunter and so fed up of listening to more senior colleagues who do not know ballistics and basic physics yet are arrogant enough to lecture around in the "I know it all" style because they think they are 10,20,30 yrs in the business, and their word deserves respect no matter what.
It wouldn’t be the first time someone had to change scopes due to scope failure. My son’s froze over internally, bad scope, and we hustled into town bought what we could find. We did the 25 yard thing with his 243. He wound up shooting his deer at about 50 yards. Did the trick! Thanks again for sharing info that a lot of folks might use especially in an emergency situation.
I used to look at the ballistics chart for the ammo and zeroed to where the chart said its trajectory would be at 25 yards depending on the distance you want zero set to.
Yup - that's the best way I've found to do it...and for me, having everything zero'd at 100 yards makes things less confusing, overall. Just plug 100 in to the calculator for your zero, and then look at what it says for your trajectory at 25 or 30 or whatever and you can either put a mark above your bullseye that is that high to aim at, or expect it to land that amount below your bullseye if you prefer to aim at the bulls, and you should be golden at 100 yd. If you can actually hold the rifle still and the ammo is consistent, you can have a nuts-on zero with just 2 shots at an indoor 25 yard range. You could do the exact same thing if you prefer a 200 yard zero, of course. But instead of expecting to be .93" low at 30 yards, you'd expect to be .53" low. - - - ALL of this, of course, assumes you have a Zero-MOA rifle, have Zero-MOA ammo, and are a Zero-MOA shooter. HAHA!
Thanks for doing this presentation. I can identify with the initial results for sure. I use a 7mm STW for elk, a 243 for deer as well as a 45/70 so the zeroing game can get frustrating if one doesn't consider the factors you relay. As you can imagine there is a HUGE difference in ballistics between the 3 calibers I have. I hope a lot of people watch this presentation.
Great Video Mr. Spomer and I’ve been zeroing my Rifles with 1 or 2 inches Low at 25 yards depending on which Rifle I’m Sighting in and I’ve always been sub 1 inch Accurate at 100 and 200 yards. It’s interesting how that works but the Bullet spin is certainly different at that close of a Range. If you have limited Shooting Range the 25 yard Zero is spot on. Stay safe my Friend Semper Fidelis
For deer season I’ve always sighted my gun in at 25 yards and have never had a problem out to 300 yards, I’m 35 and have been doing this since I was 7 it’s how my Father taught me to do it, and The .30 Cal is King of hunting, but I do love my .35 Whelen as well
Sir ron spomer you are a great rifle man i wasted a lot of my .22 hornet ammo trying a 25 yards bore sighting thank you sir for sharing this precious rifleman knowledge live long sir ron.respects from eastern balochistan
I’ve used a 25Yrd. Zero for a 8” kill Zone and a 50Yrd. Zero for a 6” kill Zone. This was also W/ a 1 1/2”COB Sight height. I’ve been using that since I was in the Army , except we used a 25Meter Zero. But… I’ve ALWAYS confirmed my Zero and made adjustments accordingly. As always another awesome video Mr. Ron.
A friend of mine zeroed his scope at 30 yards and I told him he better check it at 100. He didn’t. Said it was good to go. A couple days later the biggest buck he has ever seen walks out at about 75 yards. He was one of those types who only needs the bullets that are in his rifle. He emptied his rifle, 5 shots right over the deers shoulder. The buck never moved he had no idea what all that noise was. Out of bullets, he got mad at himself and climbed down out of his stand and started walking back to his truck. Yes, the buck just stood there looking at him as he walked back to his truck. Lesson learned.
Great job I appreciate it I learned about the 10 yards of distance make a huge difference and I understand more about the height of the skope thank you for sharing your knowledge.
In the Army basic training, we started with the Garand at 25 yards. Many of the recruits have never fired a rifle before and this was close enough for beginners. We then elevated a certain number of clicks from 25 yard zero, based on the ammo we were using. And that gave us a maximum point blank range of 400 yards when we fired on the Trainfire range.
Forgot to mention that we kept range cards with the sight adjustments where we kept the settings for trainfire exercises and can go back to them after, for example, a live fire exercise on the KD range. We also recorded these settings on our range cards.
@@mdd1963 : A minute of angle is an angular measurement that subtends 1.047 inch at 100 yards. In skull math, we say one inch at 100 yards. At 200 yards, we say two inch. It starts to get noticeable at 1000 yards where the minute is 10.47 inches.
Now that you're dialed in where you want to be, go back and shoot a target at 25 and note where it lands. If you have a problem in the field and need to check zero, 100 yards may be hard to manage, but 25 is possible. Knowing that you need to be 1.2 inches low at 25 could be useful. I also put on a boresight and note on an index card that setting. The collimator and index cards always go into the truck on a hunting trip. Came in handy once.
I "zero" everything at 25 yards but generally sight in .5" low @25yards. (Closer to zero with fast cartridges and maybe .75 or zero on pumpkin rollers.) It saves a lot of ammo getting on paper quicker. Fouling the barrel with 3 shots first before moving the turrets. Great video Ron. You just took the food right out of Federal Ammunition's mouth. Lol
great video to point all these variables out. I had learned some of these when bullets were cheaper, and had previously joked on if they sold scope rings with 6 inch height so i could hold dead on out to 350 at a coyote.
Ron you are my guy! My family has taught me at 25yds dialed in, you should always hit paper 100yds. I am a .270 guy and had to lower a little from 25 to 100. Has always felt cool to help others at range to understand many different angles and symmetries still can't compare with going to the range with your hunting bullets!
Thanks for this video. I always enjoy learning something new and / or reaffirming a process or technique already in use. I have always sighted my rifles in Initially at thirty yards for a couple of reasons. First of all, that's all the distance I have at the house, but more importantly. I don't have a bore sight to help when sighting in a new rifle or scope. At 30 yards, it's going to at least be on paper. I always put a dot under bullseye the same distance as the height of my scope. Aim at the top dot and adjust so the round is hitting the bottom dot. Then, when I'm able to go shoot at 100 yards, I'm usually within a couple of inches, and finish zeroing at 100. For those looking for a decent target idea. We had gotten my grandson a cheap youth recurve bow and arrow set from Walmart. It came with a target. The bow really wasn't worth a crap and he didn't use it much before he outgrown it. But the target is a square piece of Styrofoam that had a couple field tip arrows with a T handle on top. It came with an adhesive target. It became his BB gun target, and then I started using it for my rifles. It's super lightweight, has its own anchors, and can quickly slap a new target on it. If anyone thinks that would work for them. The Styrofoam is like a thick packaging foam. About 2" thick, firm but not real hard and regid. It lasts a really long time.
Excellent video. I prefer the phone app ballistic calculators because they don't require an Internet connection to provide you with data. Also, I've found the easiest way to measure scope height on a bolt action is to simply open the bolt and slide it back until the rear of the bolt is even with the rear of the scope. Then just grab a ruler and measure the distance between the center of the scope and bolt. It should be plenty close enough for this application.
Interesting content. I've always shot at 25 yards and made adjustments to zero. Then shoot at 100 yards and make the appropriate adjustments. Hunting in the woods of north east Michigan, a 100 yard shot is pretty much my longest shot.
Yep! My mate - who is a gun stock maker and a registered scope repairer - has his own sighting-in range marked on his gate. Once the rifle is trued-up and clamped in his wood vice, he then mounts the bases on the centreline of the barrel and then mounts the scope. Then, using the windage and elevation turret adjusters, the scope is pretty much zeroed in. 👍
Recommend starting with a MPBR based on the target size, then run the ballistic calculations to determine the distance to your desired close distance zero… this close zero negates the wind effect zeroing the scope too. Remember altitude, temperature, and humidity differences between where/when the rife is zeroed vs. hunting also changes the point of impact especially at longer distances
I have a 243, set at 2 1/2” high at 100 yards. Through trial and error I figured out 26 yards from the end of the barrel is right on. Great info, thanks.
This is great advice. I was sighting in my 416 Remington a 25 yards using an aimpoint red dot it took me 10 shots even to get on target. Then another 5 to get to zero. Then another 3 at 100 yardsto get on zero. After that I dont remember much. Must have been the concussion.
I remember zeroing my M-1 at 25 yards at Fort Riley Kansas in June, 1965. It was called using a Battle Sight Zero. We then used hold over/hold under for shooting targets at different ranges. I wish I could remember the settings.
Critical ingredient to keep in mind too and if missing is probably where the confusion comes from… is the Maximum Point Blank Range / Vitals size. It is one thing to zero on short range due to lack of space, and another to zero to something shorter than 100y/m zero for hunting purposes. Nice video 👍
My muzzle loader is 1” high at 50yds and 1” low at 100yds. Perfect minute of heart shot for deer out to 125yds although I generally don’t get clear shots beyond 70 yds
Frigginn excellent content. For real this is what everyone should be doing messing with ballistic calculators. Check the yardage when it drops back down is great too
I've got an old Marlin sight in guide. It lists a few dozen cartridges using a short-range sight in. One example is a 308 with 150 grain bullet sighted in at 25 puts 0 at 225. + 1 @ 50 + 2.25 @ 100, +1.25 @ 200 -6 @ 300. Over the years it has proven fairly accurate to get on paper at those distances, however fine-tuning at least 100 is recommended
Hi Ron, I love your videos and still very much a novice enthusiast of the craft. Just today I went shooting to try and zero my rifle. On a 50 yrd range, I had to aim 9inches low to hit bullseye. The rifle is brand new Christensen Traverse chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. Shooting 125gr. Leupold vx6hd scope. Fresh out the box. I’m stumped. The Leupold only has “up” elevation. No down elevation. The windage was dead on. Elevation was the only issue. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
YES! I have not watched yet, but I have done this at 25 or 50 yards for a couple decades when I need to sight in in the high or gusty winds. Gets me effective to 400 yards.
Yesterday at the range I zeroed at -.4” at 25 yards. According to my ballistic chart I should be 2” high at 100, and dead on at 200, and 6.37” low at 300. But my longest area to shoot is only about 250. I hope the chart is right. My final 3-round group all touched each other -.4” at 25. I guess I’ll find out. There’s no 100 yard range near me. I feel confident. Enjoyed your video.
Love the video Ron, however there is a much more exact way to measure how high the scope is above the bore. 1) Measure the diameter of the bolt and the diameter of the ocular end of the scope and divide by 2. in other words take halve of both of those measurments. 2) Measure from top of bolt to bottom of ocular end of scope. this is easily accomplished by pulling bolt back and using a small 6 inch metal ruler.
Another great video, thank you. Just curious, was your first shot from a cold bore or a clean bore? I feel there may be some nay sayers out there, but I'm one who will fire a round through just to "dirty up" and then make my adjustments. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's always worked for me.
I'm glad you made that comment. I'm zeroed at 25yds for hunting behind my house because it's real close shots in really thick woods. I guess I need to go step one out to 100yds to see where I'm at.
I’m now 61. When I was a kid, my father gave me my first centerfire rifle, a M70 243, and told me “the rule of 25s”. For a rifle with the scope 1.5” above the bore, we sighted in dead on at 25. That put the rifle 2.5” high at 100 yards, and back dead on at about 250. This is a rule of thumb, but a helpful one. For fun, sit down with a ballistics calculator and see how close it is.
Hi Ron I love watching your shows . I wanted to tell you my way of measuring scope hight I use a dile caliper and measure frome the center of your scope ring to the center of the gas port on the action on a bolt rifle . I seen your rifle didn't have that I know my savages do you could still do it that way tho . Jeff from PA.
Sir ron spomer iam thanksfull for providing us with such a valuable expriement all riflemen must be,of bore sighting at 25,30 and 35yrds coz i wasted a lot of ammo of my .22 hornet with ups and downs at 25yrds some youtubers are missguiding one of them says one and a half inch low at 25yrds will put you dead at 200yrds for 150g 308 win bullet🥴.
It just depends on the speed and bc of the round. .243 can be doing anywhere between 3100 to 3900 fps depending on the bullet, and that can drastically change your zero. And that's with just one caliber in one barrel length.
I didn't grow up hunting but it always interested me! I started hunting a few years ago. I have harvested some deer 🦌but I haven't got a rack yet. LoL I just love venison. Today I had a chance to get real buck? LoL not a button head. He was only like 15 yards from me . Never had that situation happen. Needles to say I miss! Where do I aim in a situation like that? Or do I don't take a shot at all? I'm zeroed in at 100?
I never got the chance to hunt growing up, nor to meet my dad or grandpa. I always enjoy Ron’s videos. I feel like he would be just like my grandpa. His knowledge rings true almost every time.
Side note; 36yard zero with slower cartridges works better. 45-70, 300blk, 5.7 anything 1500-2300fps
I truly Hope someone will introduce you to hunting; Take you shooting ect. Ron Spomer is fun to watch and is informative.
I know my dad but, he cant legally own a gun, and has never been outside, other than boyscouts when he was 14. I'd kill to have the chance to go hunting with someone with Ron's knowledge. I suppose maybe one day I will be able to pay for a guided hunt or something but, that sounds lame to me. I am in texas tho so, i cant hunt unless i own land and at this point in my life, we can pretty much guarantee that is never going to happen lol
@@apollow_g1025 Are you telling us that citizens of the state of Texas ,(not just a resident) , can not hunt in that state unless they own property, even if they had permission from the land owner ; or is it that the land owners are so greedy & charge so much money that you could not afford to hunt ??
@@robertmintz63 In the west, as opposed to Texas, we often hunt on public lands, mostly Federal land, BLM or USFS. There's also some county land in places. In Texas there's only one "small" piece land administered by the BLM on the south side of the Canadian River. There's considerably more (around 60 times more) National Forest/Grassland land, though very little area compared to the size of the state. You'ld have to research the regulations to find out whether the Feds even open any of that land to hunting. The land owners that charge for hunting might regard using Fenderal to hunt for free unfair competition. When you look at the land holding patterns of Texas, the state is more typical of mid-west states. Land ownership is dominated by private "agricultural" concerns and gas and oil extraction concerns.
USMC-1967, we zeroed our M-14’s at 25yards, then rezeroed/doped at 100, 200, 300 and 500 meters and you were good to go. Iron sights at 500 meters….the eyes were 56 years younger…..
Dead on, I grew up sighting in at 25 yards then 100 yards. At 4 inches high at 100, I was dead on at about 500
Your story reminds me of a gent I met at our club. 1987 we had 100yd bullseye competition. This guy was a WW2 Canadian soldier. He stands at the line with his favorite Brno 30-06 open sights smoke in the corner of his mouth. Aims and puff of smoke comes out . Second puff of smoke and shot goes off scores a 10.
@@kdean8129 Not a bad routine. The Marines had an acronym: BRASS. Breathe Relax Aim Slack Squeeze. About as fast as you could say those words to yourself-breathe-hold your breath, relax, aim, slack-take up the minuscule slack in the trigger and fire. If you wait too long, your sights will start to wobble all over the place and you’ll be lucky if you hit the target next to you. If you wait too long to fire a round, start the procedure over.
Footnote: In Boot Camp, if you did hit the target next to you, you were subject to “DIIP.” “Drill Instructor Induced Pulverization.” 😆
Hey Ron, another great video, sir. I know AR-15s aren't Your thing,however in the Army back in the 80s when an AR-15 (M16A1) with 55 grain FMJ was zeroed for qualification the two position rear sight was flipped to Long Range 300 meters and fired in a 3 round group at 25 meters and once a proper zero was achieved then the soldier went to the qualification range with pop up silhouette targets from 50-300 meters. While the 5.56 is relatively flat shooting cartridge the difference between the 0-200 and L for long made the difference that mattered, and I still remember a picture in our individual soldiers manual of the trajectory arc of the round at 25 meters thur 300 meters. Again thanks Ron for all of your great work, sir !
In the Marines, we zeroed at 30 yards, and it was the equivalent of 300 yards (M16A2 with iron sights). This is based on the trajectory of the 5.56. The bullet crosses your sight line at 30 yards on the way up, and it again crosses your sight line at 300 yards on the way down. It was pretty spot on for that rifle and that ammo.
EDIT: It was apparently 36 yards. That was a LOOOONG time ago, so memory is fuzzy.
yeah in the british army we basically did the same thing . spot on at 25 meters . a lil high at 100 and spot on at 300 meters
Fascinating.
In the Army we had a 30M known distance range we zeroed on. When I arrived at Camp Howze Korea in 1988 it was about 2300 ma and 4 other guys met the First Sergeant got fitted for our promask and zeroed our weapons on the KD Range they had set up. They handed us a packing list and the next morning was a 12 mile road march
@@markmclaughlin2690Army went to 25 m since, at least my entire career (92-23) and now do a 25m zero and zero confirmation at full range.
Actually we zeroed at 36 yards but I get what your say'n.
Hello Ron,
My father taught us to shoot 1 inch low at 25 yrds with our 30-06 to be 3 inches high at 100 yrds.... we did this religiously all growing up.... then we always shot at 100 yrds to be certain.....we were all shooting 30-06 7600 pump carbines...and this worked well!
Mike in tip top Northern Vermont.
I like to use the ballistic chart for the ammo I'm using to find what close range I can zero at to get me close at 100 yards. I'm glad Ron covered this in the video.
Remember that isn’t 100 %accurate barrel length and some manufacturers use cheap tactics to bump those numbers up .
@@Dcm193Thanks Dom, I'm certainly finding that out. I need to chronograph the loads to get a truer average MV and then see how the ballistic table from the app compares on drop at certain ranges.
Great video Ron. What I did this year is I set up a target at 200 yards and sighted in my .308. I’m shooting 3/4 of an inch high at that range, so I’m probably bang on at 225 yards. At 100 yards, I’m roughly 2.25 inches high. To me, 2 inches high at 100 yards is almost ideal if you are using non BDC reticles.
I've always preferred having around a 2 to 3" high point of impact at 100 yards for most of my rifles. It sure makes longer shots easier to take, out to a reasonable distance of course. My Son took his longest shot on a deer at 366 yards and didn't need to hold off of the deers body. Good Content Ron. Thanks for sharing.
@RonSpomerOutdoorscammer
Great video, as usual. I stumbled onto this knowledge a few years ago while playing around with distances at the range. I was already zeroed for 200 yards with my 6.5 Creed, but I decided to take some shots at 50 yards to see where it hit. To my surprise, it was nearly dead on. Since then, I've started by zeroing my new guns at 50 yards (since my local range only has 50-yard increments). This gets me on paper and within a few inches of where I need to be when I back it up to 200. Point being, it's a good way to save some ammo whether you have a long range to shoot at or not.
I've been doing this on family and friend's rifles over 30 years. I bore sight at 33 yards and shoot once. I then make scope adjustments ( measuered inches) X 3. That puts me Really close at 100 while only shooting one round. You can then fine tune at 100-400 yards.. I like 2+3 inches high at 100 in my .308. thats puts me close at 200 and only 5-6 low at 300.👍
ive done this too.
Like the way you think, I only go to 1” at 100, after 200 I hold 2” high, don’t miss much.
35 yard zero is a good combat zero at 100 you are 4" above bullseye 200 5", 300 -2.5 ,400 aim at the head.100 yard zero at 200 5" above bullseye,300 you are dropping 15.5 " so 35 yard zero it's the best for 308
At this point we're probably just arguing about who's Chrono is more accurate yours or the 🏭 that made the ammo
I've used a 50 yard zero for years, after lots of shooting with different caliber rifles I've found that is the best over all zero for me. Thanks Ron for another great video.
It's not that simple really, but right idea.
Your spot on! Being a gun collector over 60 years and a hunter and reloader that’s what I sight my rifles in at too! Hundreds of rifles has proven it best! 5 generations of hunters and my grandfather was a marksman in the military so I have been around rifles my whole life and some of the best shooters as well and it also helps that I am good friend with the best gunsmith in the whole state who is a retired PRS shooter
@@lanceroberthough1275i "zero" my gun 2" low at 25yds gives me about a perfect 100yd zero
@@lanceroberthough1275 I don't understand what's not simple about a 50 yard zero, all the rifles I shoot are anywhere from 1 inch to 2 inch high at 100 and within 2 inches plus or midus at 200 and again within 2 inches plus or midus at 250 which is perfect for my hunting or defense needs.
A lot depends on the height of your scope above the bore. It affects the distances the bullet crosses the line of sight.
I read about this sighting method in the late '80s in an article published on the 1950's. I remembered that in 1974 we sighted our M16s at Ft. Lewis WA basic at 25 meters which would correspond to almost 28yard. The ammo we were using was the 62 grain ball which was rated at 2800-2900 fps. The light came on and I have used this method for over 35 years for sighting in firearms ever since but few have ever believed me. Thank you for bringing it back to our consciousness and please push it hard in the shooting sports. It will save everyone a ton of ammo and leg work!
Basic, AIT and OCS 1968-69 zeroed M14,M16 at 25m. Used ever since, in East in my area, if you get 100m shot it’s unusual most 50m or less. If you know the ballistics you would aim accordingly. Shooting off hand, as my professor would say an insignificant figure.
I figured out a long time ago a basic: the rifle IS sighted in, it is the SCOPE that has to adjust to the rifle. Ron is spot on about moving the cross-hair from the aim point to the bullet hole, and, yes, it is easier to do with two people, one holding the rifle, the other turning the knobs. I don't do 'higher math' to sight-in. I just start out at 25 yards, move to 50 and then 100 and get the group where I want it there.
I used a some tips from this channel to sight my rifle. I got close and pulled out the bolt looked through the barrel then adjusted my scope. Moved back 30 yards about and had it sighted with 3 or 4 shots. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot any further yet. But my thumb pad covered all my shots. Great advice. Saved me from wasting ammo doing it wrong.
Great video Ron ... I use to have a Proffesor at uni in mechanics and hes go to saying was 'you can only manage what you can quantify' .... this video just reemphasised that point ... measure/know (quantify, dont guess) your variables and you can manage/predict the down range results ....important fundementals every hunter should consider and be aware of
Another great video. I do at times sight rifles in at 25 yards. You've given me a lot of useful information in this video especially with the ballistic charts and calculators. Thank you sir..
I didn't see any mention of the "cold bore shot". Everybody has their own opinion but when it comes to hunting, my thoughts are pretty simple. It's the first shot that really counts and if the rifle has a COLD BORE and like most rifles shoots a bit different than when the bore is heated up, it's wiser to know where that first shot is going. Just one man's opinion.
💯 agree 👍,, every buck ice ever shot was a ice cold barrel , it matters
Take the MV of the ammo in fps and divide it by 100. That give the range in yards to set the target and sight in. It helps to use a chronograph to get the starting velocity. I've used this method of sighting in for at least 35 years.
Thank you very much
Excellent information! Very useful, thanks for posting this.
I have been paying attention to the ballistic charts in the videos, and when applicable to what I shoot I have found it interesting.
This time I followed along using the suggested resources (Hornady ballistic calculator and ammunition pages) and I found some insight into zeroing a rifle I had been missing.
I copied the data into a few spread sheets, made some comparisons, and found specific ammunition and desired zero distances for a few of my rifles.
Thanks Ron! You are the champion, my friend. :-)
Man, that Mossberg is one good looking rig. They seem to be steadily improving all the time.
Thank you for posting this ,I been trying to find a site that will work out for me since the one I had did not work anymore on my computer. Also going into details of what to do and how to measure for the height of the scope and the front sight . Always learning from you .
I like to see you using the suppressor. Very good info. Thanks
Thank you. This information is gold. I'm a newbie hunter and so fed up of listening to more senior colleagues who do not know ballistics and basic physics yet are arrogant enough to lecture around in the "I know it all" style because they think they are 10,20,30 yrs in the business, and their word deserves respect no matter what.
Very interesting , great you pointed out how the height of the scope made a difference .
Great information Ron, thanks!
Great video... Thanks Ron :)
It wouldn’t be the first time someone had to change scopes due to scope failure. My son’s froze over internally, bad scope, and we hustled into town bought what we could find. We did the 25 yard thing with his 243. He wound up shooting his deer at about 50 yards. Did the trick! Thanks again for sharing info that a lot of folks might use especially in an emergency situation.
I used to look at the ballistics chart for the ammo and zeroed to where the chart said its trajectory would be at 25 yards depending on the distance you want zero set to.
Yup - that's the best way I've found to do it...and for me, having everything zero'd at 100 yards makes things less confusing, overall.
Just plug 100 in to the calculator for your zero, and then look at what it says for your trajectory at 25 or 30 or whatever and you can either put a mark above your bullseye that is that high to aim at, or expect it to land that amount below your bullseye if you prefer to aim at the bulls, and you should be golden at 100 yd.
If you can actually hold the rifle still and the ammo is consistent, you can have a nuts-on zero with just 2 shots at an indoor 25 yard range.
You could do the exact same thing if you prefer a 200 yard zero, of course. But instead of expecting to be .93" low at 30 yards, you'd expect to be .53" low.
- - - ALL of this, of course, assumes you have a Zero-MOA rifle, have Zero-MOA ammo, and are a Zero-MOA shooter. HAHA!
Thanks for doing this presentation. I can identify with the initial results for sure. I use a 7mm STW for elk, a 243 for deer as well as a 45/70 so the zeroing game can get frustrating if one doesn't consider the factors you relay. As you can imagine there is a HUGE difference in ballistics between the 3 calibers I have. I hope a lot of people watch this presentation.
Another excellent tutorial on sighting in. Thank you Ron.
Great Video Mr. Spomer and I’ve been zeroing my Rifles with 1 or 2 inches Low at 25 yards depending on which Rifle I’m Sighting in and I’ve always been sub 1 inch Accurate at 100 and 200 yards. It’s interesting how that works but the Bullet spin is certainly different at that close of a Range. If you have limited Shooting Range the 25 yard Zero is spot on. Stay safe my Friend Semper Fidelis
For deer season I’ve always sighted my gun in at 25 yards and have never had a problem out to 300 yards, I’m 35 and have been doing this since I was 7 it’s how my Father taught me to do it, and The .30 Cal is King of hunting, but I do love my .35 Whelen as well
Excellent presentation. Thanks for the work you put into it
This video is great. I've been thinking about this method the past few days. Perfect timing, Ron!
Sir ron spomer you are a great rifle man i wasted a lot of my .22 hornet ammo trying a 25 yards bore sighting thank you sir for sharing this precious rifleman knowledge live long sir ron.respects from eastern balochistan
I’ve used a 25Yrd. Zero for a 8” kill Zone and a 50Yrd. Zero for a 6” kill Zone. This was also W/ a 1 1/2”COB Sight height. I’ve been using that since I was in the Army , except we used a 25Meter Zero. But… I’ve ALWAYS confirmed my Zero and made adjustments accordingly. As always another awesome video Mr. Ron.
0p0
Excellent video Ron, something to many people just don’t think about.
Thanks
A friend of mine zeroed his scope at 30 yards and I told him he better check it at 100. He didn’t. Said it was good to go. A couple days later the biggest buck he has ever seen walks out at about 75 yards. He was one of those types who only needs the bullets that are in his rifle. He emptied his rifle, 5 shots right over the deers shoulder. The buck never moved he had no idea what all that noise was. Out of bullets, he got mad at himself and climbed down out of his stand and started walking back to his truck. Yes, the buck just stood there looking at him as he walked back to his truck. Lesson learned.
Tree stand? LOL he was shooting a 30-yd zero and downhill too? No wonder he shot over.
Legend has it that buck is still standing in the same spot…. Meanwhile my Harley Davidson is the signal to dart across the road
Shooting from a elevated position you will shoot high every time after sighting in on flat ground
Lmao do you still give him crap? Tbh I would all the time.
@@DonutVIP Me too, and obviously, I don't even know him... 😂
Great job I appreciate it I learned about the 10 yards of distance make a huge difference and I understand more about the height of the skope thank you for sharing your knowledge.
In the Army basic training, we started with the Garand at 25 yards. Many of the recruits have never fired a rifle before and this was close enough for beginners.
We then elevated a certain number of clicks from 25 yard zero, based on the ammo we were using. And that gave us a maximum point blank range of 400 yards when we fired on the Trainfire range.
Forgot to mention that we kept range cards with the sight adjustments where we kept the settings for trainfire exercises and can go back to them after, for example, a live fire exercise on the KD range. We also recorded these settings on our range cards.
@@andybreglia9431
The Garand's sight 'clicks' in elevation/windage were about 1 MOA/1" at 100 meters...
How.old are you .
@@mdd1963 :
A minute of angle is an angular measurement that subtends 1.047 inch at 100 yards. In skull math, we say one inch at 100 yards. At 200 yards, we say two inch.
It starts to get noticeable at 1000 yards where the minute is 10.47 inches.
Now that you're dialed in where you want to be, go back and shoot a target at 25 and note where it lands. If you have a problem in the field and need to check zero, 100 yards may be hard to manage, but 25 is possible. Knowing that you need to be 1.2 inches low at 25 could be useful. I also put on a boresight and note on an index card that setting. The collimator and index cards always go into the truck on a hunting trip. Came in handy once.
I "zero" everything at 25 yards but generally sight in .5" low @25yards. (Closer to zero with fast cartridges and maybe .75 or zero on pumpkin rollers.) It saves a lot of ammo getting on paper quicker. Fouling the barrel with 3 shots first before moving the turrets.
Great video Ron. You just took the food right out of Federal Ammunition's mouth. Lol
great video to point all these variables out. I had learned some of these when bullets were cheaper, and had previously joked on if they sold scope rings with 6 inch height so i could hold dead on out to 350 at a coyote.
I like this guy. Great presentation!
Ron you are my guy! My family has taught me at 25yds dialed in, you should always hit paper 100yds. I am a .270 guy and had to lower a little from 25 to 100. Has always felt cool to help others at range to understand many different angles and symmetries still can't compare with going to the range with your hunting bullets!
Thanks for this video. I always enjoy learning something new and / or reaffirming a process or technique already in use. I have always sighted my rifles in Initially at thirty yards for a couple of reasons. First of all, that's all the distance I have at the house, but more importantly. I don't have a bore sight to help when sighting in a new rifle or scope. At 30 yards, it's going to at least be on paper. I always put a dot under bullseye the same distance as the height of my scope. Aim at the top dot and adjust so the round is hitting the bottom dot. Then, when I'm able to go shoot at 100 yards, I'm usually within a couple of inches, and finish zeroing at 100. For those looking for a decent target idea. We had gotten my grandson a cheap youth recurve bow and arrow set from Walmart. It came with a target. The bow really wasn't worth a crap and he didn't use it much before he outgrown it. But the target is a square piece of Styrofoam that had a couple field tip arrows with a T handle on top. It came with an adhesive target. It became his BB gun target, and then I started using it for my rifles. It's super lightweight, has its own anchors, and can quickly slap a new target on it. If anyone thinks that would work for them. The Styrofoam is like a thick packaging foam. About 2" thick, firm but not real hard and regid. It lasts a really long time.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and keep your videos coming please.
Excellent video. I prefer the phone app ballistic calculators because they don't require an Internet connection to provide you with data. Also, I've found the easiest way to measure scope height on a bolt action is to simply open the bolt and slide it back until the rear of the bolt is even with the rear of the scope. Then just grab a ruler and measure the distance between the center of the scope and bolt. It should be plenty close enough for this application.
Good tip. Never thought of this.
Ron you always do great videos and this is one all shooters should watch! Thank you and hope you have a great hunting season!
Good cause I just mounted a new vortex on my 270❤
Really good information that's broken down and well explained.
Great video. You are an excellent orator/instructor.
Been doing this for years…it works. 👍 Personally I love a 200 yard zero for big game in my neck of the woods.
Interesting content. I've always shot at 25 yards and made adjustments to zero. Then shoot at 100 yards and make the appropriate adjustments. Hunting in the woods of north east Michigan, a 100 yard shot is pretty much my longest shot.
Yep! My mate - who is a gun stock maker and a registered scope repairer - has his own sighting-in range marked on his gate. Once the rifle is trued-up and clamped in his wood vice, he then mounts the bases on the centreline of the barrel and then mounts the scope. Then, using the windage and elevation turret adjusters, the scope is pretty much zeroed in. 👍
Recommend starting with a MPBR based on the target size, then run the ballistic calculations to determine the distance to your desired close distance zero… this close zero negates the wind effect zeroing the scope too. Remember altitude, temperature, and humidity differences between where/when the rife is zeroed vs. hunting also changes the point of impact especially at longer distances
Been using this method for years.
Thanks been thinking about this, greatly appreciated
Great information!!
Thank you sir these are excellent reminders of my past studies thank you for this
I have a 243, set at 2 1/2” high at 100 yards. Through trial and error I figured out 26 yards from the end of the barrel is right on. Great info, thanks.
great job Ron.....thanks
That’s a great video and explains something not many people understand
This is great advice. I was sighting in my 416 Remington a 25 yards using an aimpoint red dot it took me 10 shots even to get on target. Then another 5 to get to zero. Then another 3 at 100 yardsto get on zero. After that I dont remember much. Must have been the concussion.
As usual great show,,,,always useful info.... so lucky to enjoy Ur expertise....
Awesome vid, Ron! Thanks!
Thanks Curly.
I remember zeroing my M-1 at 25 yards at Fort Riley Kansas in June, 1965. It was called using a Battle Sight Zero. We then used hold over/hold under for shooting targets at different ranges. I wish I could remember the settings.
Great video! Thanks for making it simple and easy to understand the use of a ballistic calculator for newbies like me.
Always good to see Ron Spomer Outdoors Outdoors!
@RonSpomerOutdoor Looking forward for it 🤠
Critical ingredient to keep in mind too and if missing is probably where the confusion comes from… is the Maximum Point Blank Range / Vitals size.
It is one thing to zero on short range due to lack of space, and another to zero to something shorter than 100y/m zero for hunting purposes.
Nice video 👍
My muzzle loader is 1” high at 50yds and 1” low at 100yds. Perfect minute of heart shot for deer out to 125yds although I generally don’t get clear shots beyond 70 yds
Frigginn excellent content. For real this is what everyone should be doing messing with ballistic calculators. Check the yardage when it drops back down is great too
Great video Ron, thanks
Great guy... I can understand everything hes talking about..
Really great video.
Thanks Ron
I've got an old Marlin sight in guide. It lists a few dozen cartridges using a short-range sight in. One example is a 308 with 150 grain bullet sighted in at 25 puts 0 at 225. + 1 @ 50 + 2.25 @ 100, +1.25 @ 200 -6 @ 300. Over the years it has proven fairly accurate to get on paper at those distances, however fine-tuning at least 100 is recommended
Great info. Thank you sir.
I know all this but still enjoying the video so clear and well presented thanks keep them coming
Hi Ron,
I love your videos and still very much a novice enthusiast of the craft. Just today I went shooting to try and zero my rifle. On a 50 yrd range, I had to aim 9inches low to hit bullseye. The rifle is brand new Christensen Traverse chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. Shooting 125gr. Leupold vx6hd scope. Fresh out the box. I’m stumped. The Leupold only has “up” elevation. No down elevation. The windage was dead on. Elevation was the only issue. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
YES! I have not watched yet, but I have done this at 25 or 50 yards for a couple decades when I need to sight in in the high or gusty winds. Gets me effective to 400 yards.
Yesterday at the range I zeroed at -.4” at 25 yards. According to my ballistic chart I should be 2” high at 100, and dead on at 200, and 6.37” low at 300. But my longest area to shoot is only about 250. I hope the chart is right. My final 3-round group all touched each other -.4” at 25. I guess I’ll find out. There’s no 100 yard range near me. I feel confident. Enjoyed your video.
Thanks for the video. I’ve learned so much from you👌
Love the video Ron, however there is a much more exact way to measure how high the scope is above the bore.
1) Measure the diameter of the bolt and the diameter of the ocular end of the scope and divide by 2. in other words take halve of both of those measurments.
2) Measure from top of bolt to bottom of ocular end of scope. this is easily accomplished by pulling bolt back and using a small 6 inch metal ruler.
very good video , thank you sir.
Excellent work. As always.
Thanks for the information it was very helpful
Thanks for the info. 👍👍👍👍
Yay for Ron !!!!!!
Another great video, thank you.
Just curious, was your first shot from a cold bore or a clean bore? I feel there may be some nay sayers out there, but I'm one who will fire a round through just to "dirty up" and then make my adjustments. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's always worked for me.
Great advice
Each caliber has different ballistics. My .308 zeroed at 25 is 1.5” high at 100, back thru zero at 200 and 3” low at 250. I shoot 165g interbonds.
I'm glad you made that comment. I'm zeroed at 25yds for hunting behind my house because it's real close shots in really thick woods. I guess I need to go step one out to 100yds to see where I'm at.
Whoa whoa whoa... Ron Spomer sporting a can on his hunting rifle? Awesome!
I’m now 61. When I was a kid, my father gave me my first centerfire rifle, a M70 243, and told me “the rule of 25s”. For a rifle with the scope 1.5” above the bore, we sighted in dead on at 25. That put the rifle 2.5” high at 100 yards, and back dead on at about 250. This is a rule of thumb, but a helpful one. For fun, sit down with a ballistics calculator and see how close it is.
Hi Ron I love watching your shows . I wanted to tell you my way of measuring scope hight I use a dile caliper and measure frome the center of your scope ring to the center of the gas port on the action on a bolt rifle . I seen your rifle didn't have that I know my savages do you could still do it that way tho . Jeff from PA.
Good video. Thank you.
Sir ron spomer iam thanksfull for providing us with such a valuable expriement all riflemen must be,of bore sighting at 25,30 and 35yrds coz i wasted a lot of ammo of my .22 hornet with ups and downs at 25yrds some youtubers are missguiding one of them says one and a half inch low at 25yrds will put you dead at 200yrds for 150g 308 win bullet🥴.
I was taught to zero at 36 meters/40 yards and it's worked out very well for me. I never heard anyone say 30 yards would put me close enough.
It just depends on the speed and bc of the round. .243 can be doing anywhere between 3100 to 3900 fps depending on the bullet, and that can drastically change your zero. And that's with just one caliber in one barrel length.
That's easy for you to understand
I didn't grow up hunting but it always interested me! I started hunting a few years ago. I have harvested some deer 🦌but I haven't got a rack yet. LoL I just love venison. Today I had a chance to get real buck? LoL not a button head. He was only like 15 yards from me . Never had that situation happen. Needles to say I miss! Where do I aim in a situation like that? Or do I don't take a shot at all? I'm zeroed in at 100?