it's eye opening for sure, but i always though smoothbores could be accurate at around 100 yards or so anyway. i think hollywood gave us this idea that line battles happened at 25-50 meters, when it was a much longer distance in reality. i reckon it didn't film well when ranges were depicted more accurately
@@cagneybillingsley2165 A surprising amount of people will unquestionably buy into that goofy idea that soldiers would just line up in opposing, *static* rows, and then calmly blast away, basically just rolling the dice on whether or not they would score a hit. That's such an insane thing to picture in your head yet people will insist that's how it really happened.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine This is musket accuracy under perfect and stable conditions though. It becomes different in combat scenarios. Back then it would take around 400 bullets to take down 1 person and it's been well documented in British, French and Prussian armies during the Napoleonic wars. Each battle could spend up to 1.5millions of bullets just to produce around 4-5k casualties. You also have to take misfires, wrong powder and poorly aligned bores into consideration. The rumors of muskets being inaccurate actually started in the 1700s when armies would witness how wildly unpredictable the musket was. There's a 1800s saying that goes "to kill a man you would need lead equal to his weight". The quote actually still overestimated the actual accuracy. It would be more correct to say that it would require 1.5x lead the man's weight to kill the man, since the average of all records shows 400-500 bullets per one casualty. Most casualties were form cannons and routing.
It's no secret that here in the northeast and even in the northwest that the Native Americans preferred for decades on end preferred smoothbore trade guns almost exclusively because they could take all manner of game with them. During the French & Indian War and up to the 1770's, colonial settlers preferred smoothbore guns, not the rifles later on that you saw during the American Revolution so much. According to "Firearms of the Fur Trade" by James Hanson, between 1674 and 1781, the Hudson Bay Company bought 46,000 smoothbore trade guns specifically to trade with the Native Americans, particularly the Iroquois. This doesn't count the other companies that were selling to allies of the British or even the thousands of guns the French companies were selling and trading to their Native American allies. The trade was so competitive with the Native Americans, especially for those smoothbore trade guns, that these companies set up a trade scale for furs as a value for what they went for compared to different models of guns that were offered. According to the book "For Trade and Treaty: Firearms of the American Indians 1600-1920" in 1748 the Hudson Bay Company scale for guns to furs for trade went like this: For one gun with a 4 foot barrel, that was equal to 12 beaver skins, a gun with a 3 1/2 foot barrel, that was equal to 11 beaver skins, a 3 foot barrel, 10 beaver skins and 1 1/2 pounds of powder, 5 pounds of shot and 20 French flints were each worth one beaver skin in trade each. It's not out of line to say that these smoothbore style guns helped build the trade industry with the Native Americans that helped settle early America.
But why were they so eager to trade smoothbore guns? Cheaper for the seller to initially buy? Also perhaps selling an inferior weapon to them. We know it kills, as any weapon does. But that would be like selling them a lesser of two evils.
well the thing is they preferred them because they could also use them as weapons too. The various tribes were in an almost constant state of warfare with each other over territory since they were semi-nomadic. The terrain was also heavily forested where you would be lucky to see even 100m so the you don't really need the range a rifle could give you, much better to use the smoothbore since it can load much faster due to not needing a tight fitting ball.
@@tilasole3252 Smooth bores were the superior weapon. Rifles of the era were very slow to reload because they required very tight fitting balls so it took a lot more effort to ram them. Also while the rifle itself could give better accuracy at range, it's still much harder to hit things far away so the actual advantage isn't so great. That's why even European armies fighting in open fields only used rifles in limited number until the minie ball was developed.
@@tilasole3252 Kind of like selling ( or GIVING blankets,INFECTED WITH SMALLPOX, knowing that smallpox was a death sentance to the native americans,) huh?
Many years ago I red articles wrote by Bob Spencer about flintlock smoothbores in 20 Ga. They are still in the web. But, your video is so revealing about the capacity of smoothbores!! Congrats, and thanks. In my country 🇦🇷 is almost impossible to buy such guns... So, you ecourage me to make one. Thanks for that!
Well....I have a .62 smooth bore "Tuley" & when developing my load for it I arrived at the exact load you did....80 gr 3f with a .20 patch & a .60 round ball....I consistantly have 4" groups at 75 yards....never tried 180yd don't think I could see that far to be accurate(not the gun....my tired old eyes)....but you've proven it can be done....good video
one of the best smooth bore long range shooting marksman ship i've ever seen, davy crockett was able to shoot the shoulder boards off general Santa Anna's uniform at the same distance with a rifled bore muzzle load,,,so this is even better!! it's the one video plus your 1851 navy revolver shoot i enjoy watching over and over it just doesn't get old.
Your video applies to the modern smooth bore and black powder shell loading as well. Hickory 45 had a video shooting 240 yards with Winchester slugs. Enjoyed this video. Thanks.
I agree. I have a .72 cal brown bess long lands and have shot 4" groups at 100 yards. I wouldn't probably try to take a deer due to the windage as you saw, but in an emergency, who knows. It is pretty amazing that you can get any group with nothing but a bayonet lock nub for a sight. ;) My load for hunting with that is 90 gr. 3f with a .715 ball with pillow tick patch. Hits like a wrecking ball. Round balls are particularly bad with cross winds too though and react to them much worse due to a pretty abysmal B.C.
I built a rifled .62 caliber Andreas Albright type rifle. With that 38” Colerain radius barrel, 110 grain 2F Swiss and .600” round ball with .020 patch… it’s damn accurate out to 150 yards. Awesome video and great shot!
I live in southern Illinois and we have an 1750's French fort called Fort Charters. There's a lot of folks around here that and from around the country that do reenactments a couple times a year and there are some serious smooth bore shooting happening... I have a R.E. Davis fuzzle fin with a 48" Ed Rayl barrel...there is a lot of deferences in bore sizes between barrel maker's my Rayl barrel measures. Exactly.620 .. Most people I shoot with don't use patches...what I do is use a .615 ball then run it over a large horse rasp vigorously to put dimples in it it at the same time it in larges the ball past .620 so it snow cones at the muzzle...I lubricate with a mixture of olive oil heated up with candle wax to make a paste. Then give the ball a wack to start it. Treating the ball this way keeps the ball from spinning as it goes down the barrel and improving accuracy.. and the lub keeps the inside of the barrel from getting dry making following shots easier to load Hope any of that helps...
I think the key to this conversation isn't so much smooth bore vs. rifle, but is actually more about the projectile. IMO the rifle was able to 'iron out' miniscule inconsistencies in the projectile weight, diameter, sprue placement, etc., especially from shot to shot, where each shot was given the same amount spin in the same direction. Again, imo, with the smooth bore the two biggest impactors on ballistics, roundness and the weight balance, couldn't be easily countered back in the day, especially with a soft lead ball made by the campfire or brought along in the armaments wagon and given lumps and dings by its neighbor lead balls. Of course, inside the barrel, it is the job of the 'patch' to keep that ball from rolling or bouncing off the walls, but once outside, those weight and roundness issues quickly start to affect the ballistic path; like a pitcher throwing a knuckle ball or curve ball. Maybe my theory is right, maybe I am way off.
That makes a lot of sense. Modern balls and patches (and powder) make things a bit more even. But that's only true for spherical projectiles. Conical ("bullet-shaped") projectiles tend to need some spin to stabilize them. You can even see this with a rifle that doesn't have an adequate twist rate for the bullet it's firing - you'll be lucky to hit something even at short ranges. There's a few rare non-spherical projectiles that work okay out of smoothbores (the Diabolo shape of pellet gun fame, for example), but it's still hard to get accuracy with them to this kind of range.
Great video! Short and to the point! My flintlock has a rifled barrel, but one day I hope to get a smooth bore. I have no doubt it will be able to do what I want it to. Provided I have a tight fitting ball and patch combo.
Very cool thanks for sharing! I play around with home made blackpowder in a 12 gauge shotgun sometimes and been shooting .690 pumpkin balls out of it. I haven't been able to be very accurate, but you make me want to try again. I think I need to up my charge.
I agree with you, in everything you said. Having said that, I think the issue was the paper cartridges that was used. The balls your undersized, sometimes WAY undersized. And them there was the paper used as wadding. Militia and Military rounds provided varied in sizes of balls and paper used. I think that MAY be where some of the statements come from about hitting a barn. With a tight fitting ball and patch, a marksman can do alot. But if your just trying the get out three rounds per minute with a paper cartridge, that changes things alot. Enjoyed the video.
This, plus you didnt really need that much accuracy when bombarding the enemy line with volley fire. Individual shots didnt count as much as the organized firing of units as a whole - speed was then more important (in the open fighting scenario, hunters and marksmen operated differently, with good results)
I now have a 20 ga flintlock fowler made by Jack Garner in Mississippi. Has a 25 inch barrel. It is suppose to represent a repurposed damaged and fixed gun . Easier to load on horseback or in a canoe. It doesnt haveca butt plate orca lot of extra metal on it so it weighs just under 6 pounds. Its a great partridge gun. Its loaded for Turkeys right now. Plan using it for deer. After that i will try some long shots if i can find a place with 100+ yards of open ground. Will let you know how i do. A now dearly departed friend had an 1841 Springfield smoothbore musket. He shot patched 69 cal. Round balls over 100 gr of ff. That gun shot really well. That was 50 years ago so i dont remember group size.
I was helping my brother pick a barrel for a muzzloader build and he was talking about research and testing from the Civil War era and getting hung up on it. Had to explain to him a cheep steel barrel today is already way better material than most iron workhorses of the era.(thet the average schmuck could afford) its interesting how much can be coaxed out of them with the base level of Modern manufacturing.
Yup. People like to shit on the India muskets. I tell them that the machined old car axle habib made that barrel from is far and away better material than the mandrel forged wrought iron from the days of yore.
John, what’s he getting hung up on? I have no qualms with modern materials and manufacturing. I’m all for a round or octagon barrel, even stainless barrels. A lot of people believe you can’t shoot PRB accurately with modern twist rates. That’s just not true. I can hold every shot on a squirrel sized target at 30 yards with my CVA Wolf. Tight fit is the thing, and finding the right charge for your barrel.
I admire your marksmanship brother! Also is there something you CAN'T DO!?!? Chemist, reloader, marksman, scientist, hunter, auto mechanic?!?!? Man! Jake, you are one talented individual my brother! Love your talent and your video content! God bless to you and your family, GodSpeed!... 💯💥🤠
@@Everythingblackpowder 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😅😅😅 ... that's a good one!... I appreciate your reply as I got a good chuckle out of it!!! Thank you for making my evening brother! Keep up the good work and content! Did I mention that I got to the shooting range on a Saturday afternoon late cause I saw your entire interview with Bang bang11 along with Blackie and Snapper a couple weeks ago!?!? I fell asleep (like I normally do for the most part cause of chronic pain and insomnia) as the sun was coming up and just got a few rounds in on our navys, a pepperbox, a Wells Fargo and a Bison 12" from Pietta with my two boys, but it was worth it though, I learned alot as I'm a newbie to BP just this year, wish I knew before but now we are here and here to stay! I'll continue to support your channel by following and likes as I get notified to every video posts... Thanks again for your reply and sharing, God bless your family and GodSpeed! -Steve G...
Reminder: These types of firearms put "Food on the Table" and kept you safe! Smooth bores can cross boundaries both ways! Small game with shot, larger with ball, and really Dangerous critters with "Buck and Ball"!! Oh Ya this is how military leaders of old made up for troops with not the best marksmanship, just send Three Pistol Caliber round balls, with a Much larger Ball down range like a bulldozer. Work of Art you have! Love it! Darn you get fast pan lights! Go Bangs! Keep your Smoke Poles SMOKING, going to make a new test batch of pucks today!
Smooth bores are way more accurate than many people think. People that shoot them frequently know this. They’re pretty hard to beat if your in a totally self sufficient situation. If you had to, you could load them with small smooth stream stones for shot. Or even like the song mentions “…..rock salt and nails.” Ouch!
Granted, the rounds are fin-stabilized and the gun is mechanically laid as opposed to wobbling around in human hands. But yeah, it still subverts the usual expectation.
My Fusil shoots way to the right, so I don't shoot it much... need to send it to Bobby Hoyt and get it bent/trued up, but with that being said, even though it's 4" to the right at 50 yards, it groups well. I I didn't have to compensate so much, I'd hunt with it with zero hesitation.
I have been told by experienced shooters that for hunting purposes where the chest cavity was the goal, 80 yard with tightly patched ball. Smooth bore trade muskets were sold through the entire 19th century and I would like to buy an enhanced flintlock trade gun, but as a carbine with stainless steel barrel. For survival hunting, a rugged trade musket was about as good as you could get. As long as you had powder and flint, you could even shoot gravel in it if needed to kill small game.
100% agree. It's amazing what can be done with a smoothie. Any chrony data on that 80 gr charge? I have a working theory that smoothbore groups open up right around 50 yards because of going transonic. A spinning rifle ball would be more stable after the transonic "slap" hits it vs a knuckleball out of a smoothie. Just a theory though. I'm curious if that .600 ball is subsonic at the muzzle.
They even made Smith bore rifles, they were pretty common for meat hunters, as they could change their load depending on what they were hunting. From birds to bison. They liked them Bec really heavy charges could be used for buffalo, moose and grizz, with heavy bullets.
Does your Brown Bess carbine have a front sight blade instead of a bayonet lug? It has been my understanding that most inaccuracy with the old smoothbore muskets was due to many not having any kind of sights. The closest thing to a sight on most of the old muskets was the bayonet lug, and they were just a fat block at the end of the barrel that didn't even work effectively as a bead. most of the fowling guns and trade muskets i've seen have a front blade on them that works like the bead sight on a shotgun.
good video! and thanks for not playing any obnoxious music! and not having some stupid intro video that gives away the highlights, you get a like from me!
Sir, have you ever considered shooting shotgun slugs??? Take a look at the Svarog Zveroboy Russian slugs, the ones that use a machine screw to hold the wadding on. My 18 inch barreled tactical shotgun shoots these into a group the size of a coffee can lid at 80 yards reliably with devastating results. Do you think the 12 gauge version would work in your Brown Bess???
The problem with my smooth bore flintlocks is that only 1 of them has a rear sight installed. The others I just use as shotguns. Damn nice shooting with a Flinter, especially in the cross winds and at that distance!
I really enjoy watching your videos, I really like following the making of BP. Been following that and making notes. Thanks for doing all these great videos. I hope to try my hand at BP making soon. Question ❓ have you tried cotton wood for charcoal?
@@r.awilliams9815 was wondering, I live in Northern Indiana, cotton wood is easy to come by. Willow is here, but not as easy to come by. Thanks for sharing. Good luck & happy hunting.
You know what these trolls are going to say. Good shot by the way. My first guess is you shot at at least once before LOL. Seriously that was a good shot and you really got to know your rifle. I followed you for a little while and I believe you but boy that you going to be some out there that don't and you know that. Again good shot stay vigilant and keep ye powder dry
I've just been contemplating smooth bore as a 'do it all' versitile back woods survival gun. Ironically 20 gauge. Do you think a 20 would be sufficient for moose?
@@Everythingblackpowder Any recommendations and shopa? Cant find much in Canada, but still considered a non firearm so should be easy to send across the border.
EBP, can you post a link to 'Cash Tuck Bow Craft'? I did a search and could not find them. Also I have a dumb question: I have watched several of your 'make BP' vids and wonder if you could use cowboy charcoal. Not the brickette type stuff but what is usually called cowboy. It is very light and natural looking. Finally: Nice shooting! Thanks.
@@Everythingblackpowder Certainly not being critical of your loading method, but let me give you some food for thought. I primarily shoot muzzle loading shotguns in 12 gauge and am an advocate of the V. M. Starr (google), old time Dakota black powder gunsmith, shooter, and hunter who jug chocked all of his shotguns. He used 1Fg in shotguns 12 gauge and larger and 2Fg in shotguns smaller as in 16, 14, and 20 gauges. He loaded the powder....two or three cards which he cut from poster material....the shot and then one overshot card. He did not recommend a thick fiber wad as he felt that it was unnecessary. I use 1F exclusively in my guns which are all cylinder bore. Here is what I do to get killing and even patterns out toi 30 yards.....powder load....two tight fitting cards cut from milk cartons....shot...one card and then the way out of the box thing that works but no one can explain exactly why aka the Skychief load (google)....an olive oil soaked fiber wad. I have fired several rounds with this loading method, and it works for me. Again, love all of your videos and you are definitely the "man"...and no, I don't have to make my own video.
Hey, tungsten disulfide powder for the smoothbores will decrease friction and stiction compared to grease lube. Or at the least additional protection. Tungsten helps keep down corrosion reactions and keeps crud off easier. Would steel brush it in, however much youd want. But if youre a purist you can do without it. I just want to make a smoothbore with maximum pressure capability, best steel, lightest, longest effectively and able to take a big old tubular slug of lead and lots of powder. Its the way to do it without being a cosmic iditot consumer.
Just for info, the Brown Bess equipped individual infantryman trained to shoot out to 250 yards, as per East India Company records. At a target size that would simulate a small group of enemy. They were expected to hit it frequently. So a group firing could guarantee it would be hit a number of times. The range dropped all the way down about 100 yards where each would be expected to hit the centre part most times. Short range mass firing was for shock effect to the enemy ranks as well as actual death and injury. And would take over from artillery ball/cannister. An enemy walking slowly towards an armed mass, with bayonets attached, that is completely silent, but which you know will level and fire at some point, is unnerving. When it comes, ...........
Interesting. Very versatile long gun for people hunting or protecting themselves on the fronter almost 300 years ago. ( time flies!) I do wonder if our modern components don't add to the accuracy of the smooth bore quite a bit. I'd guess people back then had to take what they could get as far as round balls, patches and powder goes. I'd guess consistency in components was hard to come by. Maybe that had something to do with the idea that smoothbores are inaccurate. The way the military loaded muskets may have played into that reputation also, and then people exaggerate it, of course. Anyhow, what I have read about the forest density back then, shooting at close targets was probably the norm.
Fudd here-- again. The last time, you told me to go make my own damn video, but I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you on many subjects, and especially how to make videos. I've always been impressed with the research, time, and effort you put into all the videos you make-- as well as your shooting skills. This shot with your smoothbore astounded me-- I had 20 ga, Pedersoli trade gun that I purchased after attending a smoothbore shoot, and thought this would be a swell way to increase my time away from home, while expanding on all the fun I have smelling that smoke, as Lynyrd would wail. I'm sure you noticed that I said,"had"-- that's because I sold it to a reenactor that didn't care that I couldn't shoot a group smaller than 6"-8" at 25 yards! And that was shooting off sand bags too. I used a .600 hand cast and individually weighed round balls, 70 grains of 3F. and .020" pillow ticking moistened with 3 spritz of Moose Milk. I can shoot my other flintlocks off the bench and can cut bullet holes at 50 yards, and do rather well off-hand as well-- but that gun drove me to sell it. I would love to see you shoot the best group you can with yours at 25 yards off a good solid rest-- if for no other reason, just to make me feel bad. Hope to see your next video soon. I might add, my gun had no rear sight, and I'm thinking that had a ton to do with it....
I killed 2 deer with my trade gun in 2020, both over 50 yards. This year I had just built a new one and missed a doe at 60 yards or so, but I will say I don't practice with it like I did. I like my rifles and that little thing part ways down the barrel called a rear sight ha. Good shooting, that's impressive.
Old style rifling is much slower in terms of twist rate. Modern metal jacketed bullets would not work well and be way heavier than the proper round ball
I have busted the same myth in regards to snub nosed revolvers . When I say that I shoot beer cans at 100 yards with my S&W 642 people don't believe it. They think that a "belly gun" can't do that. First you have to find ammo the gun likes. Then you have to be a better than average hand with a revolver. But believe me when I tell that the gun has the accuracy built into it.
Now do it with one of the lower quality indian re-productions used by a lot of films and re-enactors. The barrel quality, even the teak stocks, are a good representation of the fast production pieces of the 18th-19th century and have more inconsistency in barrel characteristics. You're using a modern gun that has been precision milled and then reamed so the form of that internal cylinder will be incredible. That practice would not have been applied to that degree to most smoothbores which would cost less, could fire shot as well as patched roundball, and were generally more versatile for the average settler. You also have the advantage of using precision measured patching material, swaged or hand-cast lead made with precision cut molds.... Debunking centuries old myths with modern materials is like using rebar and concrete to show how easy it was to make an aqueduct.
My friends at 11 bang bang own several Indian made muskets and they have tested them at long ranges and they perform just fine. Maybe you just suck at it?
Ha! That may very well be. Would you have put a rear sight on something like a repro Potsdam or Brown Bess? I can't see shooting at 180yards with no rear sight and front "blade" that's as wide a my small finger. @@Everythingblackpowder
With modern propellants and aerodynamic projectiles and sabots smoothbore shotguns can be accurate at ranges most people only think of rifles for. Like another commenter posted, I can't see that far anymore anyway so if I can see it it is in range. 🤓🍻
So I have to share a thought process of an old mountain man in the autumn of my life. Partly because you have proven to have some solid common sense and a mind that seems at least to be somewhat in the same hemisphere as myself. For a couple of decades now I have wanted to build what I call the Remington new model on steroids. A larger framed .50 cal with a cylinder capacity of 60 grains. Now bad eye sight and practicality states I will never compete such a build. However as of late I have been contemplating a purchase of a freedom arms or BFR in 454 casull and 50 JRH as a way to test my theories as black powder hand loads translating to a cap and ball version. I'm thinking these two calibers over the smith and wesson because case capacity is potentially more than practical to obtain a complete burn in an 8-10" barrel. Do you have any thoughts on this? Or am I just an old man with a teenage heart who wants the biggest Hemi on the drag strip? This originally started with my experience in large game in just as large carnivore world where a muzzleloader only season could use legal backup. Honest opinion about the progression of an old dream.
If you wanted to get creative you could get a cartridge conversion for a Dragoon or a walker and ream the chambers to 454 casull or even 460 Ruger. Either of those should hold 50+ grains. That might be more obtainable than making a custom scaled up Remington new army.
@@Everythingblackpowder true and to a certain aspect clemans sorta did that with the ruger old army, and maybe there is a dozen or so walkers, and dragons out there designed with. 490 round ball in mind. The one draw back is the possibility of someone using full blown factory load when I'm not looking or long gone. But I think you see where I'm going. I'd much rather work with an action prepared for modern magnum then trust that someone wouldn't try it in a frame to weak. I going to do some serious research into this. Just another food for thought pietta or uberti makes a 1873 copy cap and ball. Had one didn't like it for two reasons. A. There was no capacity advantages over a Remington. B. I had to pack a loading tower to reload in the field. With that in mind. A conversion cylinder in reverse. A custom cap and ball cylinder for a cartridge revolver . Dare I say 209. I may be a old fashioned guy but not afraid trying different. Mountain man
@@Everythingblackpowder I have been contemplating your input, and the more think on it the more validity I see in it. A. I already own a Walker to test my own custom bullets B. Conversion cylinder is affordable. C. I actually could chamber ream to to a length of my choosing, then cut 460 s&w down of my choosing. D. I'll never use anything but black powder. Finally! E. As long as I don't stamp the modifications into it will always be stamped. 45 colt. That leaves more ability on the table for the .50 cal build. Thank you for your input. Mountain man
@@Everythingblackpowder today took some measurements checked them twice and even had others read and double check me, and .454 is pretty much the limit for over all length. So there it is. I think there is a plan. Starting with a conversion.
I know it's dumb but I've been in a hard place emotionally and shooting and cleaning and thinking about shooting it's helpful it let's you relax for a minute you have been really cool since I started watching I feel like you are a good and smart guy
Would have been nice to see you try this many times and see how often you hit at that distance. Eventually you are going to hit it. The trick is to do it consistently or every few times.
I've been wanting to get a smooth bore flintlock for some time, it's so versatile and will do pretty much everything I need from a long gun. Small game: yes Medium game: yes Big ass animals that wanna eat me: yes Him: we can only hope he stays away, but a buck and ball will be the call If I wanna play around with unusual loads: all day every day unless it rains. There's really no reason for me to go for a rifle right now when a musket will do everything I'll probably ever need from a gun. I'll probs never get shot at ever again, so that's not really my concern.
Thats what i call a BIG lesson, smoothbores are way more acurate than most "expert shooters" claim. Great vídeo as always.
Thank you
it's eye opening for sure, but i always though smoothbores could be accurate at around 100 yards or so anyway. i think hollywood gave us this idea that line battles happened at 25-50 meters, when it was a much longer distance in reality. i reckon it didn't film well when ranges were depicted more accurately
@@cagneybillingsley2165 A surprising amount of people will unquestionably buy into that goofy idea that soldiers would just line up in opposing, *static* rows, and then calmly blast away, basically just rolling the dice on whether or not they would score a hit.
That's such an insane thing to picture in your head yet people will insist that's how it really happened.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine thats what most people think about linear warfare unfortunately. A “gentlemen” warfare
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine This is musket accuracy under perfect and stable conditions though. It becomes different in combat scenarios. Back then it would take around 400 bullets to take down 1 person and it's been well documented in British, French and Prussian armies during the Napoleonic wars. Each battle could spend up to 1.5millions of bullets just to produce around 4-5k casualties. You also have to take misfires, wrong powder and poorly aligned bores into consideration.
The rumors of muskets being inaccurate actually started in the 1700s when armies would witness how wildly unpredictable the musket was. There's a 1800s saying that goes "to kill a man you would need lead equal to his weight". The quote actually still overestimated the actual accuracy. It would be more correct to say that it would require 1.5x lead the man's weight to kill the man, since the average of all records shows 400-500 bullets per one casualty. Most casualties were form cannons and routing.
It's no secret that here in the northeast and even in the northwest that the Native Americans preferred for decades on end preferred smoothbore trade guns almost exclusively because they could take all manner of game with them. During the French & Indian War and up to the 1770's, colonial settlers preferred smoothbore guns, not the rifles later on that you saw during the American Revolution so much. According to "Firearms of the Fur Trade" by James Hanson, between 1674 and 1781, the Hudson Bay Company bought 46,000 smoothbore trade guns specifically to trade with the Native Americans, particularly the Iroquois. This doesn't count the other companies that were selling to allies of the British or even the thousands of guns the French companies were selling and trading to their Native American allies. The trade was so competitive with the Native Americans, especially for those smoothbore trade guns, that these companies set up a trade scale for furs as a value for what they went for compared to different models of guns that were offered. According to the book "For Trade and Treaty: Firearms of the American Indians 1600-1920" in 1748 the Hudson Bay Company scale for guns to furs for trade went like this: For one gun with a 4 foot barrel, that was equal to 12 beaver skins, a gun with a 3 1/2 foot barrel, that was equal to 11 beaver skins, a 3 foot barrel, 10 beaver skins and 1 1/2 pounds of powder, 5 pounds of shot and 20 French flints were each worth one beaver skin in trade each. It's not out of line to say that these smoothbore style guns helped build the trade industry with the Native Americans that helped settle early America.
I wish those prices were still in effect. Beaver pelts are more available to me than dollars.
But why were they so eager to trade smoothbore guns? Cheaper for the seller to initially buy? Also perhaps selling an inferior weapon to them. We know it kills, as any weapon does. But that would be like selling them a lesser of two evils.
well the thing is they preferred them because they could also use them as weapons too. The various tribes were in an almost constant state of warfare with each other over territory since they were semi-nomadic. The terrain was also heavily forested where you would be lucky to see even 100m so the you don't really need the range a rifle could give you, much better to use the smoothbore since it can load much faster due to not needing a tight fitting ball.
@@tilasole3252 Smooth bores were the superior weapon. Rifles of the era were very slow to reload because they required very tight fitting balls so it took a lot more effort to ram them. Also while the rifle itself could give better accuracy at range, it's still much harder to hit things far away so the actual advantage isn't so great. That's why even European armies fighting in open fields only used rifles in limited number until the minie ball was developed.
@@tilasole3252 Kind of like selling ( or GIVING blankets,INFECTED WITH SMALLPOX, knowing that smallpox was a death sentance to the native americans,) huh?
Many years ago I red articles wrote by Bob Spencer about flintlock smoothbores in 20 Ga. They are still in the web. But, your video is so revealing about the capacity of smoothbores!! Congrats, and thanks. In my country 🇦🇷 is almost impossible to buy such guns... So, you ecourage me to make one. Thanks for that!
Well....I have a .62 smooth bore "Tuley" & when developing my load for it I arrived at the exact load you did....80 gr 3f with a .20 patch & a .60 round ball....I consistantly have 4" groups at 75 yards....never tried 180yd don't think I could see that far to be accurate(not the gun....my tired old eyes)....but you've proven it can be done....good video
Thank you
For some odd reason a smoothbore double has always appealed to me. You're on a roll these days, great vids. Mike.
Thanks Mike
With the right bullet they are surprisingly accurate
The smooth bore is very versatile, and when traveling light or money is tight it's a pretty good option. Thank you Jake.
Life for 80% of people back then.
one of the best smooth bore long range shooting marksman ship i've ever seen, davy crockett was able to shoot the shoulder boards off general Santa Anna's uniform at the same distance with a rifled bore muzzle load,,,so this is even better!! it's the one video plus your 1851 navy revolver shoot i enjoy watching over and over it just doesn't get old.
Thank you
Thanks alot for the video and for confirming the potential of a smoothbore again.
Happy to help
Your video applies to the modern smooth bore and black powder shell loading as well. Hickory 45 had a video shooting 240 yards with Winchester slugs. Enjoyed this video. Thanks.
LOL.. That look on your face when you hit the target.. Priceless!
I agree. I have a .72 cal brown bess long lands and have shot 4" groups at 100 yards. I wouldn't probably try to take a deer due to the windage as you saw, but in an emergency, who knows. It is pretty amazing that you can get any group with nothing but a bayonet lock nub for a sight. ;) My load for hunting with that is 90 gr. 3f with a .715 ball with pillow tick patch. Hits like a wrecking ball. Round balls are particularly bad with cross winds too though and react to them much worse due to a pretty abysmal B.C.
Exactly!! Nice shooting! Drooling over your collection.
Thank you
I built a rifled .62 caliber Andreas Albright type rifle. With that 38” Colerain radius barrel, 110 grain 2F Swiss and .600” round ball with .020 patch… it’s damn accurate out to 150 yards. Awesome video and great shot!
But but but that's IMPOSSIBLE!!! LOL - Great job dude, very impressive!!
Thank you
I live in southern Illinois and we have an 1750's French fort called Fort Charters. There's a lot of folks around here that and from around the country that do reenactments a couple times a year and there are some serious smooth bore shooting happening...
I have a R.E. Davis fuzzle fin with a 48" Ed Rayl barrel...there is a lot of deferences in bore sizes between barrel maker's my Rayl barrel measures. Exactly.620 ..
Most people I shoot with don't use patches...what I do is use a .615 ball then run it over a large horse rasp vigorously to put dimples in it it at the same time it in larges the ball past .620 so it snow cones at the muzzle...I lubricate with a mixture of olive oil heated up with candle wax to make a paste. Then give the ball a wack to start it. Treating the ball this way keeps the ball from spinning as it goes down the barrel and improving accuracy.. and the lub keeps the inside of the barrel from getting dry making following shots easier to load
Hope any of that helps...
I think the key to this conversation isn't so much smooth bore vs. rifle, but is actually more about the projectile. IMO the rifle was able to 'iron out' miniscule inconsistencies in the projectile weight, diameter, sprue placement, etc., especially from shot to shot, where each shot was given the same amount spin in the same direction. Again, imo, with the smooth bore the two biggest impactors on ballistics, roundness and the weight balance, couldn't be easily countered back in the day, especially with a soft lead ball made by the campfire or brought along in the armaments wagon and given lumps and dings by its neighbor lead balls. Of course, inside the barrel, it is the job of the 'patch' to keep that ball from rolling or bouncing off the walls, but once outside, those weight and roundness issues quickly start to affect the ballistic path; like a pitcher throwing a knuckle ball or curve ball. Maybe my theory is right, maybe I am way off.
That makes a lot of sense. Modern balls and patches (and powder) make things a bit more even. But that's only true for spherical projectiles. Conical ("bullet-shaped") projectiles tend to need some spin to stabilize them. You can even see this with a rifle that doesn't have an adequate twist rate for the bullet it's firing - you'll be lucky to hit something even at short ranges. There's a few rare non-spherical projectiles that work okay out of smoothbores (the Diabolo shape of pellet gun fame, for example), but it's still hard to get accuracy with them to this kind of range.
I was surprised how accurate the Brown Bess is. Very accurate!
Glad I found your channel man.
This was a excellent video.
Thank you!
Great video! Short and to the point! My flintlock has a rifled barrel, but one day I hope to get a smooth bore. I have no doubt it will be able to do what I want it to. Provided I have a tight fitting ball and patch combo.
Buy a pipe and throw a lock and stock on it.
Nice shooting,Thanks for the video.
Thank you
Very cool thanks for sharing! I play around with home made blackpowder in a 12 gauge shotgun sometimes and been shooting .690 pumpkin balls out of it. I haven't been able to be very accurate, but you make me want to try again. I think I need to up my charge.
What a shot! Well done!
Thank you
I agree with you, in everything you said. Having said that, I think the issue was the paper cartridges that was used. The balls your undersized, sometimes WAY undersized. And them there was the paper used as wadding. Militia and Military rounds provided varied in sizes of balls and paper used. I think that MAY be where some of the statements come from about hitting a barn. With a tight fitting ball and patch, a marksman can do alot. But if your just trying the get out three rounds per minute with a paper cartridge, that changes things alot. Enjoyed the video.
In combat they used bare balls to save time. Out to 75 yards they could consistantly hit a man.
Military used paper cartridges and adjusted ball dimension etc to their optimum balance of accuracy and speed
This, plus you didnt really need that much accuracy when bombarding the enemy line with volley fire. Individual shots didnt count as much as the organized firing of units as a whole - speed was then more important (in the open fighting scenario, hunters and marksmen operated differently, with good results)
I now have a 20 ga flintlock fowler made by Jack Garner in Mississippi. Has a 25 inch barrel. It is suppose to represent a repurposed damaged and fixed gun . Easier to load on horseback or in a canoe. It doesnt haveca butt plate orca lot of extra metal on it so it weighs just under 6 pounds. Its a great partridge gun. Its loaded for Turkeys right now. Plan using it for deer. After that i will try some long shots if i can find a place with 100+ yards of open ground. Will let you know how i do.
A now dearly departed friend had an 1841 Springfield smoothbore musket. He shot patched 69 cal. Round balls over 100 gr of ff. That gun shot really well. That was 50 years ago so i dont remember group size.
I was helping my brother pick a barrel for a muzzloader build and he was talking about research and testing from the Civil War era and getting hung up on it. Had to explain to him a cheep steel barrel today is already way better material than most iron workhorses of the era.(thet the average schmuck could afford) its interesting how much can be coaxed out of them with the base level of Modern manufacturing.
Yup. People like to shit on the India muskets. I tell them that the machined old car axle habib made that barrel from is far and away better material than the mandrel forged wrought iron from the days of yore.
@@krockpotbroccoli65 But folks are buying them for the look of the days of yore so hammer forged wrought iron is appropriate for at least some
John, what’s he getting hung up on? I have no qualms with modern materials and manufacturing. I’m all for a round or octagon barrel, even stainless barrels. A lot of people believe you can’t shoot PRB accurately with modern twist rates. That’s just not true. I can hold every shot on a squirrel sized target at 30 yards with my CVA Wolf. Tight fit is the thing, and finding the right charge for your barrel.
@@308dad8 I've got plenty of restored old iron muskets from the early to mid 1800s I wouldn't hesitate to shoot light loads through.
@@krockpotbroccoli65 I don’t doubt that old iron is still plenty strong. Keep the rust at bay and the metal ain’t gonna lose its properties
Damn, that's a beautiful flintlock.
Thank you
Nice shooting. Excellent windage call. When I heard the wind on the mic I didn't think you could pull it off.
Thank you
I admire your marksmanship brother! Also is there something you CAN'T DO!?!? Chemist, reloader, marksman, scientist, hunter, auto mechanic?!?!? Man! Jake, you are one talented individual my brother! Love your talent and your video content! God bless to you and your family, GodSpeed!... 💯💥🤠
Thank you! And something I can’t manage to do is to keep my reloading bench clean and tidy
@@Everythingblackpowder 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😅😅😅 ... that's a good one!... I appreciate your reply as I got a good chuckle out of it!!! Thank you for making my evening brother! Keep up the good work and content! Did I mention that I got to the shooting range on a Saturday afternoon late cause I saw your entire interview with Bang bang11 along with Blackie and Snapper a couple weeks ago!?!? I fell asleep (like I normally do for the most part cause of chronic pain and insomnia) as the sun was coming up and just got a few rounds in on our navys, a pepperbox, a Wells Fargo and a Bison 12" from Pietta with my two boys, but it was worth it though, I learned alot as I'm a newbie to BP just this year, wish I knew before but now we are here and here to stay! I'll continue to support your channel by following and likes as I get notified to every video posts... Thanks again for your reply and sharing, God bless your family and GodSpeed! -Steve G...
just got my smoothbore....looking forward to shooting it......great vid
Excellent. Thank you
Reminder: These types of firearms put "Food on the Table" and kept you safe! Smooth bores can cross boundaries both ways!
Small game with shot, larger with ball, and really Dangerous critters with "Buck and Ball"!! Oh Ya this is how military leaders of old made up for troops with not the best marksmanship, just send Three Pistol Caliber round balls, with a Much larger Ball down range like a bulldozer.
Work of Art you have! Love it! Darn you get fast pan lights! Go Bangs!
Keep your Smoke Poles SMOKING, going to make a new test batch of pucks today!
Wow! That’s some beautiful scenery!!!!!! Good shooting BTW!!🎯
Thank you
Fine shooting and great video enjoyed a lot,keep making them.
From Arkansas
Thank you
Smooth bores are way more accurate than many people think. People that shoot them frequently know this. They’re pretty hard to beat if your in a totally self sufficient situation. If you had to, you could load them with small smooth stream stones for shot. Or even like the song mentions “…..rock salt and nails.” Ouch!
Definitely
Another great video. Thanks for creating great content.
Thank you
The abrams tank is smooth bore and its sabot rounds can take targets 2 miles out while on the move
Granted, the rounds are fin-stabilized and the gun is mechanically laid as opposed to wobbling around in human hands. But yeah, it still subverts the usual expectation.
Awe man I just saw this video! Awesome brotha!
Thank you!
@@Everythingblackpowder ha ha I clicked the “bell” to get all your videos now!
Excellent
My Fusil shoots way to the right, so I don't shoot it much... need to send it to Bobby Hoyt and get it bent/trued up, but with that being said, even though it's 4" to the right at 50 yards, it groups well. I I didn't have to compensate so much, I'd hunt with it with zero hesitation.
Was listening to Joseph Von Benedikt's podcast, talk about his elk hunt where he took a large elk with a flintlock and round ball. Cool stuff.
I have been told by experienced shooters that for hunting purposes where the chest cavity was the goal, 80 yard with tightly patched ball. Smooth bore trade muskets were sold through the entire 19th century and I would like to buy an enhanced flintlock trade gun, but as a carbine with stainless steel barrel. For survival hunting, a rugged trade musket was about as good as you could get. As long as you had powder and flint, you could even shoot gravel in it if needed to kill small game.
Excellent video. I’ve been saying that for a long time!!
That was a nice shot!!!
Thank you
Nicely done.👍🏻
Thank you
100% agree. It's amazing what can be done with a smoothie. Any chrony data on that 80 gr charge? I have a working theory that smoothbore groups open up right around 50 yards because of going transonic. A spinning rifle ball would be more stable after the transonic "slap" hits it vs a knuckleball out of a smoothie. Just a theory though. I'm curious if that .600 ball is subsonic at the muzzle.
I think it’s right at 1000fps
@@Everythingblackpowder Fits with my theory then. Thanks.
They even made Smith bore rifles, they were pretty common for meat hunters, as they could change their load depending on what they were hunting. From birds to bison. They liked them Bec really heavy charges could be used for buffalo, moose and grizz, with heavy bullets.
I used to have a original Remington 50 cal smooth bore rifle, it was awesome... Nev should of got right of it. Killed lots of rabbits with it.
Does your Brown Bess carbine have a front sight blade instead of a bayonet lug? It has been my understanding that most inaccuracy with the old smoothbore muskets was due to many not having any kind of sights. The closest thing to a sight on most of the old muskets was the bayonet lug, and they were just a fat block at the end of the barrel that didn't even work effectively as a bead. most of the fowling guns and trade muskets i've seen have a front blade on them that works like the bead sight on a shotgun.
Bayonet lug
Damn fine shot.
good video! and thanks for not playing any obnoxious music! and not having some stupid intro video that gives away the highlights, you get a like from me!
If I was limited to be able to have only 1 fire arm it would definitely be a smooth bore shotgun somewhere around 20 gauge ..!
Good choice
I agree. Savage model 24. .22lr/ 20ga is the most versatile gun in my safe.
Awesome job!
Thank you
Nice shot!
Thank you
Sir, have you ever considered shooting shotgun slugs???
Take a look at the Svarog Zveroboy Russian slugs, the ones that use a machine screw to hold the wadding on.
My 18 inch barreled tactical shotgun shoots these into a group the size of a coffee can lid at 80 yards reliably with devastating results.
Do you think the 12 gauge version would work in your Brown Bess???
Thanx, that was a relaxing and fun video to watch ..
Thank you
Thank you for posting. Great subject.
Thank you
The problem with my smooth bore flintlocks is that only 1 of them has a rear sight installed. The others I just use as shotguns. Damn nice shooting with a Flinter, especially in the cross winds and at that distance!
Thank you. A little never hurts
That was bad ass!! Mine is the same Guage n.w. trade gun....
I really enjoy watching your videos, I really like following the making of BP. Been following that and making notes. Thanks for doing all these great videos. I hope to try my hand at BP making soon. Question ❓ have you tried cotton wood for charcoal?
I have not
I use black cottonwood charcoal, it's very close to willow in performance as far as I can tell and is much easier to find in my area.
@@r.awilliams9815 was wondering, I live in Northern Indiana, cotton wood is easy to come by. Willow is here, but not as easy to come by. Thanks for sharing. Good luck & happy hunting.
You know what these trolls are going to say. Good shot by the way. My first guess is you shot at at least once before LOL. Seriously that was a good shot and you really got to know your rifle. I followed you for a little while and I believe you but boy that you going to be some out there that don't and you know that. Again good shot stay vigilant and keep ye powder dry
Thank you
I have been wanting a Fusil De Chase for some time now. Maybe this is the year.
They are great guns
Very impressive!
Thank you
I've just been contemplating smooth bore as a 'do it all' versitile back woods survival gun. Ironically 20 gauge. Do you think a 20 would be sufficient for moose?
With a .600 round ball and 120gr of powder. Yeah I would say so
@@Everythingblackpowder Any recommendations and shopa? Cant find much in Canada, but still considered a non firearm so should be easy to send across the border.
Awesome!
EBP, can you post a link to 'Cash Tuck Bow Craft'? I did a search and could not find them.
Also I have a dumb question: I have watched several of your 'make BP' vids and wonder if you could use cowboy charcoal. Not the brickette type stuff but what is usually called cowboy. It is very light and natural looking.
Finally: Nice shooting!
Thanks.
The link is in the description. No, I make my own charcoal
Another good and informative video! How do you load your fowler with shot?
Thank you. 80gr 3F, 20ga cushion wad, 2oz shot, 20ga overshot card.
@@Everythingblackpowder Certainly not being critical of your loading method, but let me give you some food for thought. I primarily shoot muzzle loading shotguns in 12 gauge and am an advocate of the V. M. Starr (google), old time Dakota black powder gunsmith, shooter, and hunter who jug chocked all of his shotguns. He used 1Fg in shotguns 12 gauge and larger and 2Fg in shotguns smaller as in 16, 14, and 20 gauges. He loaded the powder....two or three cards which he cut from poster material....the shot and then one overshot card. He did not recommend a thick fiber wad as he felt that it was unnecessary. I use 1F exclusively in my guns which are all cylinder bore. Here is what I do to get killing and even patterns out toi 30 yards.....powder load....two tight fitting cards cut from milk cartons....shot...one card and then the way out of the box thing that works but no one can explain exactly why aka the Skychief load (google)....an olive oil soaked fiber wad. I have fired several rounds with this loading method, and it works for me. Again, love all of your videos and you are definitely the "man"...and no, I don't have to make my own video.
Loved this video. ❤️
Hey, tungsten disulfide powder for the smoothbores will decrease friction and stiction compared to grease lube. Or at the least additional protection. Tungsten helps keep down corrosion reactions and keeps crud off easier.
Would steel brush it in, however much youd want.
But if youre a purist you can do without it.
I just want to make a smoothbore with maximum pressure capability, best steel, lightest, longest effectively and able to take a big old tubular slug of lead and lots of powder. Its the way to do it without being a cosmic iditot consumer.
Just for info, the Brown Bess equipped individual infantryman trained to shoot out to 250 yards, as per East India Company records. At a target size that would simulate a small group of enemy. They were expected to hit it frequently. So a group firing could guarantee it would be hit a number of times. The range dropped all the way down about 100 yards where each would be expected to hit the centre part most times. Short range mass firing was for shock effect to the enemy ranks as well as actual death and injury. And would take over from artillery ball/cannister. An enemy walking slowly towards an armed mass, with bayonets attached, that is completely silent, but which you know will level and fire at some point, is unnerving. When it comes, ...........
Interesting. Very versatile long gun for people hunting or protecting themselves on the fronter almost 300 years ago. ( time flies!) I do wonder if our modern components don't add to the accuracy of the smooth bore quite a bit. I'd guess people back then had to take what they could get as far as round balls, patches and powder goes. I'd guess consistency in components was hard to come by. Maybe that had something to do with the idea that smoothbores are inaccurate. The way the military loaded muskets may have played into that reputation also, and then people exaggerate it, of course.
Anyhow, what I have read about the forest density back then, shooting at close targets was probably the norm.
Fudd here-- again. The last time, you told me to go make my own damn video, but I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you on many subjects, and especially how to make videos. I've always been impressed with the research, time, and effort you put into all the videos you make-- as well as your shooting skills. This shot with your smoothbore astounded me-- I had 20 ga, Pedersoli trade gun that I purchased after attending a smoothbore shoot, and thought this would be a swell way to increase my time away from home, while expanding on all the fun I have smelling that smoke, as Lynyrd would wail. I'm sure you noticed that I said,"had"-- that's because I sold it to a reenactor that didn't care that I couldn't shoot a group smaller than 6"-8" at 25 yards! And that was shooting off sand bags too. I used a .600 hand cast and individually weighed round balls, 70 grains of 3F. and .020" pillow ticking moistened with 3 spritz of Moose Milk. I can shoot my other flintlocks off the bench and can cut bullet holes at 50 yards, and do rather well off-hand as well-- but that gun drove me to sell it. I would love to see you shoot the best group you can with yours at 25 yards off a good solid rest-- if for no other reason, just to make me feel bad. Hope to see your next video soon. I might add, my gun had no rear sight, and I'm thinking that had a ton to do with it....
Always good videos.
Thank you
Great video, thank you.
Hendrie rocks. He's a hell of a craftsman.
My smoothbore trade gun doesn't have a rear sight. Makes hitting a little more difficult.
Btw. Im seeing solvent trap adds on your videos. Them FED boys working overtime
Lol I shouldn’t be surprised…
I wonder how a projectile fashioned like a rifled slug would perform. Drag stabilization is pretty amazing in that aspect.
Nice shootin'!!
Thank you
Years ago I had a 14 ga.wm.parker double. I would load one barrel with a patched 69cal. RB. I would group 4 " at 50 yards. I regret selling that.
I killed 2 deer with my trade gun in 2020, both over 50 yards.
This year I had just built a new one and missed a doe at 60 yards or so, but I will say I don't practice with it like I did. I like my rifles and that little thing part ways down the barrel called a rear sight ha. Good shooting, that's impressive.
Thank you
I've been following your BP making videos, really enjoy them and been taking notes. Question ❓ have you tried cotton wood for charcoal ❓
Love this channel. Do any of your antiques have a modern twist rate? I'd like to see how those shoot modern bullets or minie balls at 200+.
Old style rifling is much slower in terms of twist rate. Modern metal jacketed bullets would not work well and be way heavier than the proper round ball
"then go make your own damn video" had me rolling 🤣
I have busted the same myth in regards to snub nosed revolvers .
When I say that I shoot beer cans at 100 yards with my S&W 642 people don't believe it. They think that a "belly gun" can't do that.
First you have to find ammo the gun likes. Then you have to be a better than average hand with a revolver.
But believe me when I tell that the gun has the accuracy built into it.
Now do it with one of the lower quality indian re-productions used by a lot of films and re-enactors. The barrel quality, even the teak stocks, are a good representation of the fast production pieces of the 18th-19th century and have more inconsistency in barrel characteristics.
You're using a modern gun that has been precision milled and then reamed so the form of that internal cylinder will be incredible. That practice would not have been applied to that degree to most smoothbores which would cost less, could fire shot as well as patched roundball, and were generally more versatile for the average settler. You also have the advantage of using precision measured patching material, swaged or hand-cast lead made with precision cut molds....
Debunking centuries old myths with modern materials is like using rebar and concrete to show how easy it was to make an aqueduct.
My friends at 11 bang bang own several Indian made muskets and they have tested them at long ranges and they perform just fine. Maybe you just suck at it?
Got links? @@Everythingblackpowder
Ha! That may very well be. Would you have put a rear sight on something like a repro Potsdam or Brown Bess? I can't see shooting at 180yards with no rear sight and front "blade" that's as wide a my small finger. @@Everythingblackpowder
With modern propellants and aerodynamic projectiles and sabots smoothbore shotguns can be accurate at ranges most people only think of rifles for. Like another commenter posted, I can't see that far anymore anyway so if I can see it it is in range. 🤓🍻
2:56 Most people fail to realise that a good smoothbore is better than bad rifling
So I have to share a thought process of an old mountain man in the autumn of my life. Partly because you have proven to have some solid common sense and a mind that seems at least to be somewhat in the same hemisphere as myself.
For a couple of decades now I have wanted to build what I call the Remington new model on steroids. A larger framed .50 cal with a cylinder capacity of 60 grains. Now bad eye sight and practicality states I will never compete such a build. However as of late I have been contemplating a purchase of a freedom arms or BFR in 454 casull and 50 JRH as a way to test my theories as black powder hand loads translating to a cap and ball version. I'm thinking these two calibers over the smith and wesson because case capacity is potentially more than practical to obtain a complete burn in an 8-10" barrel. Do you have any thoughts on this? Or am I just an old man with a teenage heart who wants the biggest Hemi on the drag strip? This originally started with my experience in large game in just as large carnivore world where a muzzleloader only season could use legal backup. Honest opinion about the progression of an old dream.
If you wanted to get creative you could get a cartridge conversion for a Dragoon or a walker and ream the chambers to 454 casull or even 460 Ruger. Either of those should hold 50+ grains. That might be more obtainable than making a custom scaled up Remington new army.
@@Everythingblackpowder true and to a certain aspect clemans sorta did that with the ruger old army, and maybe there is a dozen or so walkers, and dragons out there designed with. 490 round ball in mind. The one draw back is the possibility of someone using full blown factory load when I'm not looking or long gone. But I think you see where I'm going. I'd much rather work with an action prepared for modern magnum then trust that someone wouldn't try it in a frame to weak. I going to do some serious research into this. Just another food for thought pietta or uberti makes a 1873 copy cap and ball. Had one didn't like it for two reasons. A. There was no capacity advantages over a Remington. B. I had to pack a loading tower to reload in the field. With that in mind. A conversion cylinder in reverse. A custom cap and ball cylinder for a cartridge revolver . Dare I say 209. I may be a old fashioned guy but not afraid trying different.
Mountain man
@@Everythingblackpowder I have been contemplating your input, and the more think on it the more validity I see in it. A. I already own a Walker to test my own custom bullets B. Conversion cylinder is affordable. C. I actually could chamber ream to to a length of my choosing, then cut 460 s&w down of my choosing. D. I'll never use anything but black powder. Finally! E. As long as I don't stamp the modifications into it will always be stamped. 45 colt.
That leaves more ability on the table for the .50 cal build.
Thank you for your input.
Mountain man
Happy to help!
@@Everythingblackpowder today took some measurements checked them twice and even had others read and double check me, and .454 is pretty much the limit for over all length. So there it is. I think there is a plan. Starting with a conversion.
Nice!
Good shooting Sir
Thank you
I think you are freaking awesome 🔥
Well thanks
Well you are intelligent and cool as ice you are respectable my friend
I know it's dumb but I've been in a hard place emotionally and shooting and cleaning and thinking about shooting it's helpful it let's you relax for a minute you have been really cool since I started watching I feel like you are a good and smart guy
Good shooting.
Thank you
Very informative!
Would have been nice to see you try this many times and see how often you hit at that distance. Eventually you are going to hit it. The trick is to do it consistently or every few times.
I think I will skip making my own dam video and just enjoy your knack for play with a purpose. Thanks!
Plus you hit that standing
Are you in AZ, NM?
Cool best from Poland
I've been wanting to get a smooth bore flintlock for some time, it's so versatile and will do pretty much everything I need from a long gun.
Small game: yes
Medium game: yes
Big ass animals that wanna eat me: yes
Him: we can only hope he stays away, but a buck and ball will be the call
If I wanna play around with unusual loads: all day every day unless it rains.
There's really no reason for me to go for a rifle right now when a musket will do everything I'll probably ever need from a gun. I'll probs never get shot at ever again, so that's not really my concern.
This video needs more views! To much fudd lore about smoothbore muskets and the like.
Beautiful gun
I think a big part of it often is the absence of a rear sight.