Your explanation of 32bit float really helped me understand a gist of how it works. I asked myself why I need this recorder, and answer was similar to your thunder example. I film weddings and the biggest issue, EVERY SINGLE TIME, is during speeches, toasts. One person practically yells, and the next is literally whispering. I feel this would finally help me with that issue! Preordered one a few days ago! Thanks again for the video!
I just got my F3 a few days and I bought it primarily for it's size. I wish it had 24 bit recording as an option also but the 32 bit float seems to be doable for right now. I've had 32 bit float recording on my Sound Devices Mix Pre for a few years now but honestly never used it that much. I like the ability to mount the F3 on my camera and use it as a preamp because it's so small and I plan to use it a lot for drop recordings in the woods for ambient sounds . Also it was on sale ( or price reduction?) for only $299 and so far I'm quite pleased with it. I just found your channel and am really enjoying your videos.
I think your final section hit the nail on the head. What is the advantage of 16 bit or 24 bits vs 32 bit float? File size, that's all. I'm not fussed about processing load as sound editing software has worked in 32 bit float since the last century. So, when buying new gear, all things being equal, you might as well buy 32 bit float gear and forget about recorder level setting, totally. Sure, that's just one consideration among many but it's important with digital recording as there isn't the blurred edge you used to get with analog, where you could push the meters into the red and you'd probably get away with it. With digital, you're stuffed if it's over the top. But do you need new gear right now? Do you need 32 bit flloat right now? As you say, maybe don't rush. I used to record classical music professionally for a great many years. I had a reputation among musicians for rapid setup and very little level checking because I knew my gear well and experience counted for a lot. Some others would stress the musicians no end by getting them to play all sorts of test passages so they could get the level right at the recorder. That's the kind of situation where 32 bit float comes into its own. Plonk down the mic at the right spot (based on experience), plug it into the 32 bit recorder, and say "take one....".
excellent presentation my friend 👍 looking to upgrade my h4n and you did a great job showcasing the f3. ive been spoiled with 32 bit using my tentacle track e, so this f3 is a compelling proposition
Thank you so much for this down-to-earth and informative presentation. Many F3 videos tout 32bit and rarely talk about the flaws of its application scenarios. However, you gave a detailed explanation. This is the accurate information we videographers need.
Thank you for the detail alternative approach to non-clipping recording. I appreciate your comparison to careful recording As the standard and not 32 bit ;-)
Fantastic breakdown and explanation... inspired me to pause before jumping on yet another audio gadget for my unnecessarily vast collection of audio equipment. 😅👍
"and people won't want to hear actors talk" seriously though, as a run-and-gun and doco and ENG kinda guy who works from a bag - i can lose the bag! less to carry!
All valid points you made. 32bit really helps are solo videographers who can't monitor or change the levels. Recording board feeds for theater performances and wedding DJs you often have to guess at the levels.
You are a real Negative Nancy...lol. I find 32 bit float to be a huge advantage when capturing audio at events because if i am recording with a non 32 bit recorder and the signal is too low, I get noise when I raise the levels in post (I am talking about extreme situations). Once the audio is peaking, which happens more often, then the sound is destroyed -6db safety is not enough ( if you ever shot a wedding you will understand). I agree that 32bit float is the future and I am very happy and excited to use this technology. I tested the Zoom f3 yesterday and boosted the levels in post with no noise added at all.
Thanks! You made me laugh. I do believe that weddings and events are one of the situations where 32 bits is most helpful (though I'm going to stand by my internal Nancy or most points). Now comes the embarrassing part: a week after I posted this video my Tascam froze on a shoot; it took several minutes to get it unstuck and it was quite a scare (an interview, in between takes so the client is staring at me fiddling away). That's not really acceptable, so I went shopping and ended up with a Zoom F6 (need those extra inputs). I'm a little unnerved by NOT setting levels, but appreciate that extra bit of flexibility. That and I've got a corporate event in two weeks (line out of the board? is there a board? mic the loudspeaker? is there a loudspeaker? lav up the speakers if I can catch them before they start talking? Blah-- I prefer a controlled situation).
@@hurricaneimagesmedia I will circle back an update you on build quality and other pros and cons. I just want a no nonsense recorder that can capture a range. I record my church sermons every week and our pastor definitely likes to shout randomly lol.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia so I have the recorder an man it is a beast. I will post my full review of it from B&H but it hasn’t posted yet. Too much to retype but basically it’s exactly what many hoped for. A monster of a recorder with exceptional build quality. But I have some gripes with it. First being the Bluetooth randomly disconnects. And secondly I wish the recorder would record when you hit record on the camera while using the line out. It’s very very annoying to have to hit record on both the recorder and the camera. This function may not be possible but they made it so ergonomic that you can mount it almost anywhere with a 1/4 20 screw mount but as a solo shooter it forces you to have to make awkward movements. As a faced paced shooter this can be really annoying. Hopefully they can implement this. Not sure if it’s possible but I’m not holding it to the device. The device is amazing with very few cons and a lot of pros.
Great video. As a hobbyist I have been obsessed with recording ambient sounds in nature and have fallen into recording very low sound recordings such as the snow fall in a valley in the mountains for years now. I’ve been waiting for 32bit float to finally become affordable for consumer gear and welcome this change.
If you can capture a good recording of snow falling in a valley, please share it! As a former Colorado-boy, that's the most peaceful thing in the world.
I saw this video about a year ago but didn't mention anything at the time as I recently bought the F3. Currently have the F3 and F6 and just preordered the UAC 232. Overall I agree with you. But I have to add a huge asterisk. Is there an audio difference between 24 and 32 bit? No. Well, technically yes. (Go in your DAW and record your gain at a low gain, record a whisper and save the same file as 24 bit and the other as 32 bit float. Intentionally drop the amplitude to like -80 decibels. Then save it. The 32 bit float will have no distortion whatosever while the 24 bit will have tons of hiss when normalized to -1 DB) This shows there is a difference //but will most people tell? Not really. Is the marketing a bit misleading when they show a 1500 decibel bar? Yes. These interfaces are limited to the SPL of the microphone. Anything past 300 decibels I hear will literally kill a person rofl! And can someone who properly adjusts their gain do just fine with a 24 bit interface....yes. But I have to add something. It's a HUGE,HUGE Quality of Life change going with 32 bit float. Often with character work, anime, animation work you'll have reads where it's quiet to thrashing loud. ie a character that screams and then sobs quietly. Or another take where it's someone whispering. So if it's something where you have 300 lines and you're going through different variations of loudness. It gets irritating constantly moving the knob. A 32 bit float interface means I can record all the lines from the paper without turning the knob. And while, yes, you.........can...clip the mic, I've only clipped it once. And I lost my voice for the rest of that week. It was like 145 DB SPL, which is a very unhealthy volume. Point that I want to say is that you're absolutely right. But on the other hand what's heavily discounted here is the tremendous tremendous quality of life it offers. As a voiceactor, it will save you time. It'll also save your recordings. It'll save your throat. I can't tell you of so many random times where I had to redo a take because it was too loud etc.
Thanks for your thoughts, Dracomies-- and I completely agree. There is a convenience/comforting factor to 32 bit float that's hard to define (or live without once you've made the jump). Ironically, about a month after I made this video my trusty, crusty 24 bit recorder started to malfunction. I typically do both audio and video for my productions, so the less fuss and attention a piece of equipment needs, the better. I bought a used F6. I like the 6 inputs (allowing me to have permanent set-ups for mics that need power on 1-3, and lav mics that don't on 4-6), and the ease of knowing my audio challenges end after I figure out mic choice and placement. There's no need to make a safety track, import dual tracks, then listen-through them to decide which you want to use (though it's almost almost always the normal track). It's a small improvement, but definitely quality of life.
Thanks for the informative video on 32-bit float. What piqued my interest, however, was your comment that you like to use three tracks in interview. When I worked at Radio new Zealand some years ago we only used two channels in field interviews, usually a pair of Shure SM63s coming out of a Sounddevices or something of that ilk. I found that Lavaliers didn't often work, particularly with talent who insisted on gesturing while talking, or with disabled people (my programme featured mostly disabled talent) who made involuntary movements. Would you please teach me your rationale behind using three tracks? Again, a most informative channel.
Thanks, Kylee. For me, interviews are almost always sit downs with the interviewee off camera (sometimes it's two people being interviewed). My thinking on the three channels is that you're going to want to use the boom mic (shotgun or cardiod) if at all possible. But if you're into safety, then you'll want lav's as your back up. I agree with you that the lavs are prone to disaster-- people scratching their chests, etc. Other situations, such as shooting a dramatic scene in a car, you'd often use the double lav and a hidden "boom" mic setup (sometimes two shotguns, one for each person). But if you're interviewing someone in front of a camera two inputs is definitely enough. And to be honest, I rarely have more than two inputs recording; most often it's me asking questions off camera and the talent on screen. But every so often there are two people on camera, or the interviewer is the company marketing director, and I want that third channel.
I have the F6- while I love it, I learned quickly that 32bit recordings GREATLY slow down my computer and workflow. So much so that I rarely use 32bit anymore.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia I honestly don’t know. I never had time to really explore why (my two year old takes up most of my free time). The biggest issues I had was with INSANE export times and slow/choppy editing using Premiere Pro and a maxed out 2019 MacBook Pro.
:) I got ya on the 2 year-old. I've got one that 21 months and another that's five and a half. Your system certainly seems powerful enough to handle the files... that is really weird.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia For me, I think it has more to do with the hassle than the processing power. Just like with visuals, when we stepped up from 12M pixel sensors not so long ago to 24M, and now more than 40M. When you are not making films, photos or sound for professional broadcasting every single day, I think we've passed over sensible heights some time ago and everything now is just a sales game. What also is funny is that most of Netflix or alike are watched on a laptop or even worse, on a smartphone!
@@baribalthebear Yes, it's kind of "dB peeping," isn't it? Of course, with the industry pushing 4K monitors and TVs (and even phone screens-- how ridiculous), our proverbial jewels are quickly going to be in a vice on pixels, and we'll all be stuck delivering 4K content to clients... regardless of anyone can see the difference.
Great explanation. I'm still on the fence as to if I should sell my F4 and H5 and purchase the F3. I rarely ever record more than 2 tracks but that could change in the future. I mainly looked at switching because of the size. Perhaps I'll keep the F4 after all and just wait a little longer and see how the F3 Performs.
I definitely wait for some reviews. I think the preamps are going to decide whether it performs well with quiet audio, and that's half the reason to get one.
It should be noted that, while 24-bit takes up less storage space than 32-bit float recordings, the same is NOT true if you add a 24-bit safety track, because you’re doubling your bits per sample.
Based on your comments about 32 Bit Float and the comments made by others with editing challenges, I think you have underlined the need to be able to easily adjust levels. The gain in the F3 appears to be only adjustable via the menu. I would GUESS that the F6 is a better buy at double the price due to being able to adjust levels easily and see meters.
Sorry for my slow reply. Man, that's a tough question because so much depends on how you like to record and your sound preferences. I actually have little experience with mics, comparatively, because there are soooo many great, expensive, and diverse ones out there. Do you need to isolate the sound from other ambient sounds? In which case a hypercardiod is the way to go; or are you more interested in the full environment (omni-directional)? If your field is nature recording, you should check out @FreeToUseSounds because it's one of their specialties.
Thank you for your video. I have noticed that 32 floating recording provides an embeded safety track with some additional headroom above 0dBFS at the expense of only 8 bits. Now let's test how big that headroom is. If F3 max line input level is 24dBu than what level correspond to 0dBFS?
In your example it would be 24dBu. If 24dBu is your Max analog input before clip, then you can assume you also have 24dBu Max going back to Analog from Digital.. So on your Master you can't go over 0dBFS Digital for your AD conversion. You can mix and do internal processing above 0dBFS but when you go back to Analog you don't want to exceed 0dBFS. I'm not familiar with the 8bit "expense" you mention but that would equate to 50dB analog. But your example is What Max Analog = What Max Digital. Both are known... You state 24dBu Analog Max DA and Digital is fixed at 0dBFS Max for AD conversion. So they are equal as a reference in your example.
@@rubiconfpv6175 Now I have F6 recorder and I think I understand 32F recording better. I still think due to 32F I have embedded safety track for recording. In my practice that additional headroom is the difference of gain I use in 24I recording minus minimum gain.
I have a technical question about the Zoom F3. I hope it is ok to ask. I want to record myself singing. While recording I want to be able to hear myself as well as hear a playback music track in my headphones, but to end up with a clean vocal track that will not include the playback music track. I was thinking of recording the playback into one of the F3 tracks as I monitor and record myself to the second track. Can this be achieved with the F3? Thanks for any help.
Hi Gilad, Yes, having your singing mic in one channel and your recording in the other should work, though you may hear the music (and your voice) in opposite ears. I don't know if it can merge the headphone output to dual mono.
That question is a bit tricky. Unless you're using a specialty mic, they'll probably perform just about the same. The h5n has a max sound pressure of 140db, which is more than most mics can handle. There are some mics designed for 150db. The f3 can handle more than that, which is why they claim it's "clip free." It's not that the dynamic range goes on forever, it's that your mic will have problems before your recorder. But the f3 will have more headroom for mistakes. Event videographers like 32 bits because it's difficult to control the gain on the recorder for different speakers, but it sounds like you're in a more controlled setup. I'd look at your mic/recorder combination before taking a leap in either direction.
Great Q-- there are 32 bit recorders out there. The float refers to the fact that it has dual converters-- essentially two 24 bit records working simultaneously. You never actually get the full range of 32 bits all at once, but the covers the same range. If you had a whisper and a jet engine at the same time-- and could magically remove the jet from the recording-- true 32 bit recorder would reveal the whisper. But the float chooses the jet engine range (which makes sense because no magic can remove it from the recording). If the jet cut its engine in a millisecond, it would instantly switch levels for the whisper.
Yeah.... in full disclosure, about two weeks after I made this review my trusty (crusty?) Tascam glitched on me during a shoot-- locked up between takes. It recovered after some prodding, but I realized that it was old and my audio back-up system (essentially switching to a lav with a Rode Go) wasn't so hot. So I bought a used Zoom F6. I was also scheduled to shoot a conference, and I was worried about all the level variations. I hooked up a presenter with a lav to Rode Go, transmitted to the 32 bit F6. Fair bits of the audio were clipped... because he didn't have a mic, he spoke at a near shout at times to be heard in the large room. This clipped the lav before it reached the 32 bit float recorder. I think he would have clipped most lavs at his volume. If I'd anticipated properly, I'd have stuck the lav down by his belly button. Luckily, I was really responsible for capturing his presentation, so it was "here's a little bit extra" on my part.
Hi Ron, Ignoring the price difference, I think the clear trade off is inputs vs. size. If you want room to grow beyond 2 inputs, the x8 is the choice; the Zoom will constrain you to just two inputs. But if that doesn't matter and a smaller size for run and gun weddings is important, the f3 will be more convenient. Also the x8 has its own mics, which is helpful (though I've heard complaints that they seem fragile). You're going to get comparable sound from both, though. Some other commentors on this video have said that 32 bits gives them trouble in editing, which is something to consider.... I know this isn't a clear recommendation-- they'll both handle a bride and groom mic input the same, it's about what extras you prefer.
I have the zoom H5 and am doing field recording. I use external shotgun mics. my biggest gripe is the noise-floor. I'm pretty good at setting my levels to avoid clipping, but would gladly forgo the gain stage for far lower noise floor. maybe something is wrong with my H5, but even without the mics plugged in I am getting noise floor on the meters at around 5.5 on the gain knobs. it ends up ruining the recording having to process out the noise-floor. I don't understand the file size argument. can't you down convert files as soon as you get them on the computer? do you know of a cheaper field recorder with a super low noise-floor that I might be able to find used for way cheaper than $350. I mean, if it's around not under $200 then I would probably just go for the F3. I find the H5 to be too noisy when recording quiet stuff. thanks.
Well, field recording in quiet settings is one of the times when 32 bits can be helpful, so it may be the solution you need. But you may also want to check the noise floor of your mics and even your XLR cables (I'm assuming you've compared noise floor with different batteries--rechargeable vs regular-- and USB power). And there are phone apps that can show dB, giving you a sense of the actual noise floor in your environment; they're not accurate, of course, but can be helpful for comparing. If you have to increase your gain a lot during recording, another possible solution may be a portable preamp, like the Triton Audio Fethead ($90) or the sE Electronics DM1 Dynamite preamp ($100), both of which are small connectors. From what I've read there are some complaints about H5 noise, but also that it's pretty typical for its price-point. A more sensitive mic, or a preamp, are the cheapest solutions; otherwise you've got an investment decision. I don't think you'll find much better than the H5 below $300, even used. I'd also wait until there a good number of reviews of the F3. 32 bits solves one part of the noise floor problem, but if the preamps are mediocre the bit rate won't matter. Yep, you can down convert the files right away, though all of us lazy-bones will balk at the extra step. I have heard that 32bit files have ground some Mac computers to a crawl, though... something having to do with converters. I don't know how widespread that issue is.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia thank you for your thoughts! Really good. I think I’ll order one and compare it side by side with the H5. I can return it if 32 bit floating point doesn’t fix my problems. I am using audio technica BP4071 mics, which are supposed to be super low noise. I’m getting the high noise floor without the mics even plugged in, by the way. I long for the ultra low noise recording that the F3 promises. I am tired of the weak performance of the pro-sumer blight.
@@caseykittel Yeah, sometimes you realize you've just hit a wall with the gear you have, and you need something more to get to where you want to be. Let me know how the F3 performs with noise, and how it compares overall to the H5. I'm curious to hear your impressions.
I hear that analogy a lot, but I don't think it's the best one. A RAW image is the data before the camera processes it. It's technically not an image yet, just data. Whereas 32-bit is already sound. An analogy I like better is a "bracketed exposure"... two images taken at different exposures and then merged. In fact, that's almost literally what the 32 bit float recorders are doing. They have two Digital to Analog converters operating at once to capture a wider dynamic range. With RAW you gain very little dynamic range, it's primarily color and sharpening choices that the camera applies in processing.
Your explanation of 32bit float really helped me understand a gist of how it works.
I asked myself why I need this recorder, and answer was similar to your thunder example.
I film weddings and the biggest issue, EVERY SINGLE TIME, is during speeches, toasts. One person practically yells, and the next is literally whispering.
I feel this would finally help me with that issue! Preordered one a few days ago! Thanks again for the video!
Thanks for the note! I'm glad the video helped.
I just got my F3 a few days and I bought it primarily for it's size. I wish it had 24 bit recording as an option also but the 32 bit float seems to be doable for right now. I've had 32 bit float recording on my Sound Devices Mix Pre for a few years now but honestly never used it that much. I like the ability to mount the F3 on my camera and use it as a preamp because it's so small and I plan to use it a lot for drop recordings in the woods for ambient sounds . Also it was on sale ( or price reduction?) for only $299 and so far I'm quite pleased with it. I just found your channel and am really enjoying your videos.
I think your final section hit the nail on the head. What is the advantage of 16 bit or 24 bits vs 32 bit float? File size, that's all. I'm not fussed about processing load as sound editing software has worked in 32 bit float since the last century. So, when buying new gear, all things being equal, you might as well buy 32 bit float gear and forget about recorder level setting, totally. Sure, that's just one consideration among many but it's important with digital recording as there isn't the blurred edge you used to get with analog, where you could push the meters into the red and you'd probably get away with it. With digital, you're stuffed if it's over the top. But do you need new gear right now? Do you need 32 bit flloat right now? As you say, maybe don't rush.
I used to record classical music professionally for a great many years. I had a reputation among musicians for rapid setup and very little level checking because I knew my gear well and experience counted for a lot. Some others would stress the musicians no end by getting them to play all sorts of test passages so they could get the level right at the recorder. That's the kind of situation where 32 bit float comes into its own. Plonk down the mic at the right spot (based on experience), plug it into the 32 bit recorder, and say "take one....".
excellent presentation my friend 👍
looking to upgrade my h4n and you did a great job showcasing the f3.
ive been spoiled with 32 bit using my tentacle track e, so this f3 is a compelling proposition
You just explained it without making more complicated. Good job Sir
Thanks!
Thank you so much for this down-to-earth and informative presentation. Many F3 videos tout 32bit and rarely talk about the flaws of its application scenarios. However, you gave a detailed explanation. This is the accurate information we videographers need.
Thanks!
Thank you for the detail alternative approach to non-clipping recording. I appreciate your comparison to careful recording As the standard and not 32 bit ;-)
This guy is the audio uncle i always wanted. Wow, that was helpful!
:-)
i love how you explain about the sound it makes it easier
Thanks~!
Thanks for the tips
Really appreciate the down to earth info
Fantastic breakdown and explanation... inspired me to pause before jumping on yet another audio gadget for my unnecessarily vast collection of audio equipment. 😅👍
Great to hear!
Great advice and info!
"and people won't want to hear actors talk"
seriously though, as a run-and-gun and doco and ENG kinda guy who works from a bag - i can lose the bag! less to carry!
All valid points you made. 32bit really helps are solo videographers who can't monitor or change the levels. Recording board feeds for theater performances and wedding DJs you often have to guess at the levels.
Yes, wedding situations are definitely the most challenging, with people on mic, off mic, nervous, drunk....
You are a real Negative Nancy...lol. I find 32 bit float to be a huge advantage when capturing audio at events because if i am recording with a non 32 bit recorder and the signal is too low, I get noise when I raise the levels in post (I am talking about extreme situations). Once the audio is peaking, which happens more often, then the sound is destroyed -6db safety is not enough ( if you ever shot a wedding you will understand). I agree that 32bit float is the future and I am very happy and excited to use this technology. I tested the Zoom f3 yesterday and boosted the levels in post with no noise added at all.
Thanks! You made me laugh. I do believe that weddings and events are one of the situations where 32 bits is most helpful (though I'm going to stand by my internal Nancy or most points). Now comes the embarrassing part: a week after I posted this video my Tascam froze on a shoot; it took several minutes to get it unstuck and it was quite a scare (an interview, in between takes so the client is staring at me fiddling away). That's not really acceptable, so I went shopping and ended up with a Zoom F6 (need those extra inputs). I'm a little unnerved by NOT setting levels, but appreciate that extra bit of flexibility. That and I've got a corporate event in two weeks (line out of the board? is there a board? mic the loudspeaker? is there a loudspeaker? lav up the speakers if I can catch them before they start talking? Blah-- I prefer a controlled situation).
I was thinking about the same issue with the microphone placement during 32bit recording and tend to agree. Great info.
Thanks!
Far an beyond the best 32bit float explanation I’ve heard. I ordered mine minutes ago and I can’t wait to add it to my kit
Thanks! I'm very curious about the build quality-- if it's as rugged as it looks. Let me know if you can.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia I will circle back an update you on build quality and other pros and cons. I just want a no nonsense recorder that can capture a range. I record my church sermons every week and our pastor definitely likes to shout randomly lol.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia so I have the recorder an man it is a beast. I will post my full review of it from B&H but it hasn’t posted yet. Too much to retype but basically it’s exactly what many hoped for. A monster of a recorder with exceptional build quality. But I have some gripes with it. First being the Bluetooth randomly disconnects. And secondly I wish the recorder would record when you hit record on the camera while using the line out. It’s very very annoying to have to hit record on both the recorder and the camera. This function may not be possible but they made it so ergonomic that you can mount it almost anywhere with a 1/4 20 screw mount but as a solo shooter it forces you to have to make awkward movements. As a faced paced shooter this can be really annoying. Hopefully they can implement this. Not sure if it’s possible but I’m not holding it to the device. The device is amazing with very few cons and a lot of pros.
That's awesome. Thanks for letting me know. It seems like the F3 inherited the F6 build materials. I imagine that line out port is one way only....
Great video. As a hobbyist I have been obsessed with recording ambient sounds in nature and have fallen into recording very low sound recordings such as the snow fall in a valley in the mountains for years now. I’ve been waiting for 32bit float to finally become affordable for consumer gear and welcome this change.
If you can capture a good recording of snow falling in a valley, please share it! As a former Colorado-boy, that's the most peaceful thing in the world.
I m into ur type of recordings( nature including thunder). Can suggest me microphone/s plz
Amazing explanations thanks a lot for your help ! You made me reconsider buying a 32 bit float recorder for now.
Thanks! Glad it helped.
Or you can buy one and compare it side by side. That’s what I’m going to do. I’ll return it if it doesn’t make all my wildest dreams come true.
This was the most helpful video of 32bit sound.
Thanks!
Really great straightforward explanation of 32bit float.
Thanks!
I saw this video about a year ago but didn't mention anything at the time as I recently bought the F3. Currently have the F3 and F6 and just preordered the UAC 232. Overall I agree with you. But I have to add a huge asterisk. Is there an audio difference between 24 and 32 bit? No. Well, technically yes. (Go in your DAW and record your gain at a low gain, record a whisper and save the same file as 24 bit and the other as 32 bit float. Intentionally drop the amplitude to like -80 decibels. Then save it. The 32 bit float will have no distortion whatosever while the 24 bit will have tons of hiss when normalized to -1 DB) This shows there is a difference //but will most people tell? Not really. Is the marketing a bit misleading when they show a 1500 decibel bar? Yes. These interfaces are limited to the SPL of the microphone. Anything past 300 decibels I hear will literally kill a person rofl! And can someone who properly adjusts their gain do just fine with a 24 bit interface....yes. But I have to add something. It's a HUGE,HUGE Quality of Life change going with 32 bit float. Often with character work, anime, animation work you'll have reads where it's quiet to thrashing loud. ie a character that screams and then sobs quietly. Or another take where it's someone whispering. So if it's something where you have 300 lines and you're going through different variations of loudness. It gets irritating constantly moving the knob. A 32 bit float interface means I can record all the lines from the paper without turning the knob. And while, yes, you.........can...clip the mic, I've only clipped it once. And I lost my voice for the rest of that week. It was like 145 DB SPL, which is a very unhealthy volume. Point that I want to say is that you're absolutely right. But on the other hand what's heavily discounted here is the tremendous tremendous quality of life it offers. As a voiceactor, it will save you time. It'll also save your recordings. It'll save your throat. I can't tell you of so many random times where I had to redo a take because it was too loud etc.
Thanks for your thoughts, Dracomies-- and I completely agree. There is a convenience/comforting factor to 32 bit float that's hard to define (or live without once you've made the jump). Ironically, about a month after I made this video my trusty, crusty 24 bit recorder started to malfunction. I typically do both audio and video for my productions, so the less fuss and attention a piece of equipment needs, the better. I bought a used F6. I like the 6 inputs (allowing me to have permanent set-ups for mics that need power on 1-3, and lav mics that don't on 4-6), and the ease of knowing my audio challenges end after I figure out mic choice and placement. There's no need to make a safety track, import dual tracks, then listen-through them to decide which you want to use (though it's almost almost always the normal track). It's a small improvement, but definitely quality of life.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia OMG I love the F6! I use the F6 all the time. I actually like it better than the F3 :D. It's so useful!!
This was very helpful. Thank you
Thank you! Great Review!
Thanks for this sharing. Clearly, it isn't a video for clickbaits, not viewship, let alone sharing affiliate links.
Thanks agian.
Thanks for the video
Very good vídeo/lesson!!
Thanks!
Really great info. Enjoy your channel!!
Thanks!
Thanks for the video. Great delivery. Found the music distracting though but that’s just me.
Thanks. Yeah... sometimes I have a love hate relationship with the background music.
Thanks for the informative video on 32-bit float. What piqued my interest, however, was your comment that you like to use three tracks in interview. When I worked at Radio new Zealand some years ago we only used two channels in field interviews, usually a pair of Shure SM63s coming out of a Sounddevices or something of that ilk. I found that Lavaliers didn't often work, particularly with talent who insisted on gesturing while talking, or with disabled people (my programme featured mostly disabled talent) who made involuntary movements. Would you please teach me your rationale behind using three tracks? Again, a most informative channel.
Thanks, Kylee. For me, interviews are almost always sit downs with the interviewee off camera (sometimes it's two people being interviewed). My thinking on the three channels is that you're going to want to use the boom mic (shotgun or cardiod) if at all possible. But if you're into safety, then you'll want lav's as your back up. I agree with you that the lavs are prone to disaster-- people scratching their chests, etc. Other situations, such as shooting a dramatic scene in a car, you'd often use the double lav and a hidden "boom" mic setup (sometimes two shotguns, one for each person). But if you're interviewing someone in front of a camera two inputs is definitely enough. And to be honest, I rarely have more than two inputs recording; most often it's me asking questions off camera and the talent on screen. But every so often there are two people on camera, or the interviewer is the company marketing director, and I want that third channel.
I have the F6- while I love it, I learned quickly that 32bit recordings GREATLY slow down my computer and workflow. So much so that I rarely use 32bit anymore.
Wow. Interesting... is it because it needs to interpret/decode the 32 bit file? It can't be file size or data rate alone, can it?
@@hurricaneimagesmedia I honestly don’t know. I never had time to really explore why (my two year old takes up most of my free time).
The biggest issues I had was with INSANE export times and slow/choppy editing using Premiere Pro and a maxed out 2019 MacBook Pro.
:) I got ya on the 2 year-old. I've got one that 21 months and another that's five and a half. Your system certainly seems powerful enough to handle the files... that is really weird.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia For me, I think it has more to do with the hassle than the processing power. Just like with visuals, when we stepped up from 12M pixel sensors not so long ago to 24M, and now more than 40M. When you are not making films, photos or sound for professional broadcasting every single day, I think we've passed over sensible heights some time ago and everything now is just a sales game. What also is funny is that most of Netflix or alike are watched on a laptop or even worse, on a smartphone!
@@baribalthebear Yes, it's kind of "dB peeping," isn't it? Of course, with the industry pushing 4K monitors and TVs (and even phone screens-- how ridiculous), our proverbial jewels are quickly going to be in a vice on pixels, and we'll all be stuck delivering 4K content to clients... regardless of anyone can see the difference.
Great explanation. I'm still on the fence as to if I should sell my F4 and H5 and purchase the F3. I rarely ever record more than 2 tracks but that could change in the future. I mainly looked at switching because of the size. Perhaps I'll keep the F4 after all and just wait a little longer and see how the F3 Performs.
I definitely wait for some reviews. I think the preamps are going to decide whether it performs well with quiet audio, and that's half the reason to get one.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia the preamps are the same as the F4 that the commenter is considering selling for the F3.
@@smallbizdigitalmedia Good to know, thanks!
Very succinct. This video earned a sub. 💯
Thanks! Appreciated.
It should be noted that, while 24-bit takes up less storage space than 32-bit float recordings, the same is NOT true if you add a 24-bit safety track, because you’re doubling your bits per sample.
Very true. In fact it'll take up more space to keep both files.
Based on your comments about 32 Bit Float and the comments made by others with editing challenges, I think you have underlined the need to be able to easily adjust levels. The gain in the F3 appears to be only adjustable via the menu. I would GUESS that the F6 is a better buy at double the price due to being able to adjust levels easily and see meters.
I recommend getting a teleprompter
If U can plz suggest a mic/ set for nature recording ( including thunder storm etc for F3 plz.
Sorry for my slow reply. Man, that's a tough question because so much depends on how you like to record and your sound preferences. I actually have little experience with mics, comparatively, because there are soooo many great, expensive, and diverse ones out there. Do you need to isolate the sound from other ambient sounds? In which case a hypercardiod is the way to go; or are you more interested in the full environment (omni-directional)? If your field is nature recording, you should check out @FreeToUseSounds because it's one of their specialties.
Thank you for your video. I have noticed that 32 floating recording provides an embeded safety track with some additional headroom above 0dBFS at the expense of only 8 bits.
Now let's test how big that headroom is. If F3 max line input level is 24dBu than what level correspond to 0dBFS?
In your example it would be 24dBu. If 24dBu is your Max analog input before clip, then you can assume you also have 24dBu Max going back to Analog from Digital.. So on your Master you can't go over 0dBFS Digital for your AD conversion. You can mix and do internal processing above 0dBFS but when you go back to Analog you don't want to exceed 0dBFS. I'm not familiar with the 8bit "expense" you mention but that would equate to 50dB analog. But your example is What Max Analog = What Max Digital. Both are known... You state 24dBu Analog Max DA and Digital is fixed at 0dBFS Max for AD conversion. So they are equal as a reference in your example.
@@rubiconfpv6175 Now I have F6 recorder and I think I understand 32F recording better. I still think due to 32F I have embedded safety track for recording. In my practice that additional headroom is the difference of gain I use in 24I recording minus minimum gain.
@@rubiconfpv6175 I find that article misleading. 1500dB of dynamic range has no phisical meaning with respect to recording.
I have a technical question about the Zoom F3. I hope it is ok to ask. I want to record myself singing. While recording I want to be able to hear myself as well as hear a playback music track in my headphones, but to end up with a clean vocal track that will not include the playback music track. I was thinking of recording the playback into one of the F3 tracks as I monitor and record myself to the second track. Can this be achieved with the F3? Thanks for any help.
Hi Gilad, Yes, having your singing mic in one channel and your recording in the other should work, though you may hear the music (and your voice) in opposite ears. I don't know if it can merge the headphone output to dual mono.
Hi , for motorcycle exhaust sound recording, should i pick zoom h5n or zoom f3?
That question is a bit tricky. Unless you're using a specialty mic, they'll probably perform just about the same. The h5n has a max sound pressure of 140db, which is more than most mics can handle. There are some mics designed for 150db. The f3 can handle more than that, which is why they claim it's "clip free." It's not that the dynamic range goes on forever, it's that your mic will have problems before your recorder. But the f3 will have more headroom for mistakes. Event videographers like 32 bits because it's difficult to control the gain on the recorder for different speakers, but it sounds like you're in a more controlled setup. I'd look at your mic/recorder combination before taking a leap in either direction.
What does the float in 32 bit float mean? Why isn’t it just 32 bit?
Great Q-- there are 32 bit recorders out there. The float refers to the fact that it has dual converters-- essentially two 24 bit records working simultaneously. You never actually get the full range of 32 bits all at once, but the covers the same range. If you had a whisper and a jet engine at the same time-- and could magically remove the jet from the recording-- true 32 bit recorder would reveal the whisper. But the float chooses the jet engine range (which makes sense because no magic can remove it from the recording). If the jet cut its engine in a millisecond, it would instantly switch levels for the whisper.
So, 32 Bit is not a Magical Solution that will change my Life? Damn!
Yeah.... in full disclosure, about two weeks after I made this review my trusty (crusty?) Tascam glitched on me during a shoot-- locked up between takes. It recovered after some prodding, but I realized that it was old and my audio back-up system (essentially switching to a lav with a Rode Go) wasn't so hot. So I bought a used Zoom F6. I was also scheduled to shoot a conference, and I was worried about all the level variations. I hooked up a presenter with a lav to Rode Go, transmitted to the 32 bit F6. Fair bits of the audio were clipped... because he didn't have a mic, he spoke at a near shout at times to be heard in the large room. This clipped the lav before it reached the 32 bit float recorder. I think he would have clipped most lavs at his volume. If I'd anticipated properly, I'd have stuck the lav down by his belly button. Luckily, I was really responsible for capturing his presentation, so it was "here's a little bit extra" on my part.
Zoom f3 or tascam x8? Vid?
Hi Ron, I'm not sure what you're asking here... would I recommend one of the other?
Yes, which one would be a better buy for weddings?
Hi Ron, Ignoring the price difference, I think the clear trade off is inputs vs. size. If you want room to grow beyond 2 inputs, the x8 is the choice; the Zoom will constrain you to just two inputs. But if that doesn't matter and a smaller size for run and gun weddings is important, the f3 will be more convenient. Also the x8 has its own mics, which is helpful (though I've heard complaints that they seem fragile). You're going to get comparable sound from both, though. Some other commentors on this video have said that 32 bits gives them trouble in editing, which is something to consider.... I know this isn't a clear recommendation-- they'll both handle a bride and groom mic input the same, it's about what extras you prefer.
I have the zoom H5 and am doing field recording. I use external shotgun mics. my biggest gripe is the noise-floor. I'm pretty good at setting my levels to avoid clipping, but would gladly forgo the gain stage for far lower noise floor. maybe something is wrong with my H5, but even without the mics plugged in I am getting noise floor on the meters at around 5.5 on the gain knobs. it ends up ruining the recording having to process out the noise-floor.
I don't understand the file size argument. can't you down convert files as soon as you get them on the computer?
do you know of a cheaper field recorder with a super low noise-floor that I might be able to find used for way cheaper than $350. I mean, if it's around not under $200 then I would probably just go for the F3. I find the H5 to be too noisy when recording quiet stuff. thanks.
Well, field recording in quiet settings is one of the times when 32 bits can be helpful, so it may be the solution you need. But you may also want to check the noise floor of your mics and even your XLR cables (I'm assuming you've compared noise floor with different batteries--rechargeable vs regular-- and USB power). And there are phone apps that can show dB, giving you a sense of the actual noise floor in your environment; they're not accurate, of course, but can be helpful for comparing. If you have to increase your gain a lot during recording, another possible solution may be a portable preamp, like the Triton Audio Fethead ($90) or the sE Electronics DM1 Dynamite preamp ($100), both of which are small connectors. From what I've read there are some complaints about H5 noise, but also that it's pretty typical for its price-point. A more sensitive mic, or a preamp, are the cheapest solutions; otherwise you've got an investment decision. I don't think you'll find much better than the H5 below $300, even used. I'd also wait until there a good number of reviews of the F3. 32 bits solves one part of the noise floor problem, but if the preamps are mediocre the bit rate won't matter.
Yep, you can down convert the files right away, though all of us lazy-bones will balk at the extra step. I have heard that 32bit files have ground some Mac computers to a crawl, though... something having to do with converters. I don't know how widespread that issue is.
@@hurricaneimagesmedia thank you for your thoughts! Really good. I think I’ll order one and compare it side by side with the H5. I can return it if 32 bit floating point doesn’t fix my problems. I am using audio technica BP4071 mics, which are supposed to be super low noise. I’m getting the high noise floor without the mics even plugged in, by the way.
I long for the ultra low noise recording that the F3 promises. I am tired of the weak performance of the pro-sumer blight.
@@caseykittel Yeah, sometimes you realize you've just hit a wall with the gear you have, and you need something more to get to where you want to be. Let me know how the F3 performs with noise, and how it compares overall to the H5. I'm curious to hear your impressions.
Very informative video and I appreciated your way of saying things.
As a broke amateur I'll wait for the 64 bits 😂
Just like RAW photo, end of the story.
I hear that analogy a lot, but I don't think it's the best one. A RAW image is the data before the camera processes it. It's technically not an image yet, just data. Whereas 32-bit is already sound. An analogy I like better is a "bracketed exposure"... two images taken at different exposures and then merged. In fact, that's almost literally what the 32 bit float recorders are doing. They have two Digital to Analog converters operating at once to capture a wider dynamic range. With RAW you gain very little dynamic range, it's primarily color and sharpening choices that the camera applies in processing.