The Sopranos - The REAL Problem with the Ending
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- A quick explanation of the final scene in The Sopranos as well as some quick thoughts about the main problem with the series finale.
*SPOILERS*
This video contains spoilers from the HBO hit series The Sopranos.
This episode was written, narrated, and produced by Geoffrey Ciani (aka - Rummy).
The Sopranos - The REAL problem with the ending
![Christopher Moltisanti's Revenge Fantasy in The Sopranos [CLEAVER]](/img/1.gif)
“Game of Thrones had a wonderful ending.”
I’ll tell you one thing and I’m not ashamed to say it, my estimation of him as a man just fucking plummeted.
Come on, all bets are off when it comes to gameshows.
Yeah, only the truth fans were disappointed
Whatever happened there…
GoT was awesome from start to finish. Then again, I've always been fortunate enough to think for myself and not rely on memes to do my thinking for me, for which you have my sympathy, ya fucking dunces.
@@ryans756 What about the self-thinking folks who created the memes to begin with? 🤔🤔 Surely somebody had to be genuinely unhappy with it... I for one, was perplexed by the ending of GOT. When I heard out the people who were pissed, it helped me to pinpoint why it wasn't working for me.
Take it easy.
This guy liked the game of thrones ending. He can't be in our social club no more, that much I do know.
Social club? He's gotta GOO
There’s no scraps in my scrap book
@@Nickhehehe When he comes around, are you going to kiss him on the cheek?
I feel like i've been stabbed in the hat
We'll get him to pay for some therapy or some shit...
1. Butchie and Phil had a falling out. Butchie found himself "lost in chinatown", vulnerable while phil hid out. Things weren't going the way butchie thought they would and he wanted to end the hostility. Phil disagreed.
2. Butchie shook Paulies hand behind Tony's back at the sit down and also went on record instructing the NY crew to not attack Paulie.
Paulie showed a history towards siding with NY throughout the series. Paulie has a history of lying to tony as seen with the Ginnys mole on her ass situation. Paulie is also characterized as a survivor above all else, as referenced by how he survived the Columbo wars. Finally Paulie was sitting in the only red seat at the sit down, a big clue towards his intent.
Still dont think Paulie betrayed Tony? Rewatch Funhouse, the dream sequence Silvio stated " Our true enemy has yet to reveal himself". The very next shot Tony peers through the looking glass and sees himself shooting paulie.
Or maybe you'll kindly note the cat that looks at rats behind the wall in the final episode curiously staring down paulie, another "rat" at the end of his final scene.
The point of butchie is that he and Paulie made a double move to settle the war fairly, and save themselves, agreeing to remove both leaders. Paulie then gave leadership to Patsy as seen in the bathroom scene where he walks away and says to patsy " it's all yours". The show misdirects the viewer into assuming they were discussing plans about taking out Phil, when in reality they were discussing life after Tony. They wouldn't need to discuss taking Phil out privately like that, the Bing is their turf.
brilliant observation.
I think its the more plausible explanation.. Butch and Paulie, while Patsy agreed, even though he wouldnt do it on his own.. the clues are subtle, but they're there
Butchie turned on Phil because Phil said,”When this is over you and I are going to have a sit down”.
That was a veiled threat and then he totally disrespected Butchie by hanging up on him..pretending he couldn’t hear him.
This was enough to turn the tables on his relationship with Phil.
Paulie does say in his dream of Pussy…”When my time comes, will I stand up?”
Great points
Butchie betrayed Phil for one reason - Fear. When Tony wasn’t killed in the initial NY mob hits Butch knew they had missed their mark. He practically tells Phil to reach out and seek peace. Phil rejects that idea because he’s protected in hiding, but Butch is vulnerable. They missed their chance to get Tony. If Phil is killed before Tony then Butch’s head will be on the chopping block. Butch has one card to play that would guarantee his safety - give up Phil and make peace. It’s an extremely practical move. However, he still doesn’t give up Phil’s location out of loyalty and respect. But he makes it very clear that he will not stop nor deter a hit on Phil. True, he had never liked Tony. True, he had always been loyal to Phil. But look where that got him - floundering around in no man’s land with the constant threat of death hanging over his head. By reaching out to New Jersey he takes matters into his own hands. This saves Butch. He can rest easy. His fear is eliminated.
Fair points, all. I'm beginning to come around to that idea. But I still always thought (and still believe) Phil would have been singing a merrier tune had Butchie gotten the job done, even if it was later than he'd have preferred.
"Game of thrones had a wonderful ending." Instantly nullified anything you had to say.
Absolutely. 👍
Omg beat me to it. Jesus loved this video up until that point. Now I gotta thumbs down......
Abso-frickin-lutely
You are right, the Got ending show all the war was for nothing
The ending wasn't too bad honestly. one of the most impactful outcomes if you try to consider just how much Westeros would change with that ending.
Butch just had enough of: "I did 20 fucking years!"
Lol. But I always believe Patsy and NY was behide Tony hit. The members only jacket guy killed him in front of his family. Patsy had plenty of reasons to do it. The killing of his twin brother, getting pass over for acting Capo by Chris and Tony probably thought he was gonna flip like Carlo did so Patsy had to strike first
"Let me tell you a couple-a-three things"
"I thought the Game of Thrones ending was wonderful"
This alone makes me question the legitimacy of your analysis of any ending of any series.
This dude lost me when he said that! No like and definitely not a sub.
I almost closed the video after hearing that
I have to question your leadership ..
What about saying that there were 7 seasons of sopranos?
Why ? He presents a great argument in this video. You just shut peoples opinions out entirely once they disagree on a specific thing? Super unhealthy thinking.
Butchie betrays Phil because he realizes Phil has decided Butchie didn’t handle the decapitation of the Sopranos properly. Phil is going to punish Butchie and he knows it. Better to lose Phil and have Tony grateful.
Exactly. Watch the phone conversation Phil and Butchie had in the snow. Phil left him in the cold and had walked from the old, last remaining Little Italy into Chinatown. He was on his own in a foreign land. Phil even says a cryptic "we'll talk" after Butchie suggests to make peace with Tony. Butchie was done.
@@keldonmcfarland2969
Correct. This also further verified why NY wanted to expand “their territory.”
“Little Italy once covered this area for blocks. Now it is only on this street.”
@@LipstickNWhiskey Little Italy isn't "their territory."
@@histguy101 If you do not understand that statement, oh well.
After hearing he liked GOT ending, I gotta say, my estimation for this youtuber as a man just fuckin plummeted.
😂😂😂😂😂
Butchie’s rationale makes sense because getting Phil killed makes him king after, he manipulated tony right before he was totally gone.
give him a break will ya? its an emotional day
His coach turned into a pumpkin.
@@SpideyRules-pq6becan you imagine that? his coach turned into a pumpkin?
Missed the best quote of the series "The guy was an interior decorator."
But his place looked like shit
It did dent
"He killed 16 Czechoslovakian's".....CM - "Really? I thought his place looked like shit". Ah, Pine Barrens, that is my favourite espisode.
That shit was hilarious
Debra B
Haha best episode
You've all got it wrong big time. The answer was in front of all your faces the whole time. 16 Czechoslovakians killed Tony.
that russian green beret came back from the forest after surviving the headshot and took out Tony for ordering the hit on his universal remote control.
@Hollow Skull Really? His house looked like shit.
I thought it was 16 black guys who killed Tony.
@Costa Zambaras " Small hands, that was his problem. "
fucking interior decorators.
The end is disappointing only because of the fact that you don’t want the sopranos to ever end. Otherwise I think it’s a brilliant ending.
This.
Agreed. In fact it never occurred to me that tony got killed.
I thought it was some metaphorical ending underscored by the song. Like “hey, the show is over but we will always be in your heart. Don’t stop believing.”
there’s so many unanswered questions and unfinished storylines, like who killed Tony and why, what happened to Paulie and the rest of tony’s crew. it didn’t feel like a full conclusion to the show just a big ass cliffhanger. For exmalple in breaking bad they gave us a full ending with a conclusion to every single character in the show and made it clear how it ended
It is a brilliant ending. Fans will discuss it forever. Just like the ending of "The Americans" and "No country for old men", leaving loose ends allows people to dream their own desired ending. Not all endings need to be happy or certain like "Shawshank Redemption".
The real winner was Little Carmine....who stood back while everyone killed each over.
A pint of blood is worth more than a gallon of gold.
No, the crew would never accept him as a boss, he proved to a weak leader.
@@frankpost62 Perhaps he read Sun Tzu's Art of War.....
Little Carmine is an interesting character. He was basically given power and money because of his last name. He never had to earn it like the other gangsters. One could argue he's barely a gangster. He had people killed but he was pretty far removed from the street level violence. Kind of reminds me of how Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad was criminally adjacent. Carmine did a good job at staying neutral throughout the show but he definitely had the luxury of inherited wealth and power to make that easier.
@@williamb8091 carmine wanted to be legit, but didn't have a choice.
"Game of Thrones had a wonderful ending."
Yeah, and I'm playing shortstop for the Mets.
LMAO
You are? Congratulations!
Butchie changes his mind after Phil threatens him over the phone. That's when he turns to make peace with Tony.
That’s exactly right... he was improving his standing with the family. Also improving his position with shared businesses.
I.K great moment when Butchy and Phil are on the phone and in the time of the conversation he goes from Little Italy to Chinatown and is completely on his own; Phil left him as a target.
I know and then Butchie pretends not to understand the implicit threat from Phil.
Amazing scene, butch turns his back on the street while walking
Butchie was brilliant, he got elevated to the top spot by using Tony to kill Phil. Smart
Butchie’s strategy actually makes sense. By giving up Phil, he lured Tony to drop his guard. With that illusion of safety, Tony became vulnerable and a dead man walking. Once ready, Butchie brought the coup de grace upon the Jersey crew!
Perfect! Tony felt comfortable to go out to dinner with the family.
League of Legends
He sure didn't look comfortable though. He was fidgeting and watching the door
@@martinverner7390 He's still more relaxed and vulnerable than he would be if the war was officially on. He's in a public place with his family.
@@martinverner7390 Sure he was still paranoid but he was calm enough to go out in public, if anything happened to him he'd be fine knowing they won't touch his family.
I think that Butchie’s betrayal makes a lot of sense, actually. He decimated Tony’s entire crew, then when there was only a slight vestige remaining, allowed them to kill Phil, then took out Jersey’s last man with ease. It seems Butchie’s plan was to take over from the beginning. Clever actually.
Butchy admitted in the final sit down that "Phil's gone too far". If Butchy really wanted the top stop, wouldn't he have told Tony where Phil was hiding? Instead he said, "you do what you gotta do".
@@donaldspaulding6973 How do you think they found out where Phil was, you think they just walked and “oh! hes right here at the gas station!”. Butchie told Tony where Phil was hiding out at.
@@familiathelabel7482 The FBI officer told them, and they managed to figure it out because where he was only had 2 pay phones, so Phil must've been making calls from one of them
@@kailerdunlop9615 Agent Harris had told Tony the specific phone booth in Oyster Bay actually. That part skipped my mind
for a second but yeah, he got it from the Feds.
2 men is not a crew!
Quasimodo predicted all of this.
Who?!
@@yoonbrody2934 ...the half-back; from Notre Dame.
Bufford youuuuu Sumbitch....
The godamn Germans had nothing to do with...
Put the evidence in the godamn car
Nice
That’s right, NotreDameus
Game of thrones had a good ending? Ohhhhh( Paulie’s voice)
Like music to my ears 😻
heh heh heh
@@pauliewalnuts707 Oooh! It's Paulie Walnuts. As Paulie would say: "Show some respect!"
"fucking skunadz"
Geta outta hereeeeeeeee!!!!!
😡😡😡
You're 100% right to question Butch's motives. The entire show rewards you if you're paying attention to the subtext of what's going on in the show. You missed that Butch is actually an ambitious character and it's in-line for him to want to take over the boss position. He practically has the seat open and safe for him once Tony died.
Tony is unpredictable. He's prone to kill his own men and other mob members in NY to fill his ego. Butch, Patsy and Paulie are all aware of this character trait, so we can speculate that there may have been some 'team flipping' within Tony's crew that left him wide open to be killed- and then leave a safer environment for the remaining players to do business safely.
That being said, at first I was breaking your balls but (after you said you enjoyed the GoT ending) now you're beginning to make me worry.
You forget that Phil directly blamed Butchie for the botched hit on Tony, saying that Tony should've been hit first. When Phil was on the lame and called Butchie, he says that he directly blames Butchie, and Butchie can be seen thinking after the call is made. Butchie is figuring that he is on the chopping block for botching the hit. So he turns on Phil, so he doesnt get it himself.
This
Yup.
Yeah, I think you’re right. I think that’s the key
That part
Thank you! You beat me to it! Evidence suggest that Butchie made a deal with Pualie and Patsy to leave the remainder of the Jersey family to them, while he takes his family. Paulie and Patsy directly betrayed Tony.
“Butchy” and all the “cleaver” business in that last season-also Tony’s panic attacks stemming from his dad and the butcher, all his repressed patricidal stuff-the name alone leads me to believe he’s pretty significant.
Holy shit, "Butchie" / butcher. I never even thought of that. Brilliant, my friend.
Well noticed. Never thought of that
I didn't notice that either ...great pickup
That's a good catch and one that could be made later in the show when it meant that. Butch still looks to me as if someone pieced together his face, which was dead and had to blood coursing through it. He always gave me the creeps more than anyone else.
I do love the layered characters and their respective actors on Sopranos. I imagine AJ being in therapy for the better part of his young life. Not surprised he didn't set his sights on becoming an adult actor.
Borko's gotta see something from this--you don't mind if he takes his taste now, right?
Borko wanted to make a video like this, but he compromised and made a montage.
Are you paying Borko for this video, Lynch? Are you paying someone for this video?
Borko wants to wet his beak
Theirs been a few new mobs moving in on borkos turf recently I hope this doesn’t escalate to something more serious
@@JohnKobaRuddy This half a finoc thinks Game of Thrones had a good ending. You think this Micky Mouse shit is a threat to the Skipper? Fuck outta here.
It seems appropriate that this video centers on Butchie-- the most Lynch-ian character on the show. Tell me he doesn't look like he should be talking backwards in front of a red velvet curtain.
"You know, Quasimodo predicted all this".
NOSTRADAMUS!!!!
What, you dont ponder the whole Notre dame and the whole back thing. Lol
When you said GoT had a good ending, you lost absolutely ALL credibility.
I felt the same exact way
Ya'll are petty idiots. DONT LIKE SOMETHING I DONT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
@@mimas120 He liked a shittly written ending. It's not about subjectivity. Did you watch game of thrones or are you being a smartass?
@@mimas120 on a channel ostensibly about media analysis, somebody somehow managed to fail in analysis so hard that they liked something objectively awful. This is a fair mark against their capabilities. You can argue that people have different tastes, and it's petty and idiotic to argue with someone whose taste differs from yours, but if you completely ignore the objective components of quality story-telling then your analysis can't possibly have any credibility because you've started with the premise "quality is subjective" which negates any possible analysis or discussion of the topic. Even if you believe that, that there is no objective component to art, discussing it within that paradigm is a waste of time and an insult to human dignity.
I liked it but that's probably because when I knew they were out of book material and D&D were on their own I knew the quality was going to dip badly so my hopes weren't high. Don't get me wrong, the ending wasn't good but I liked it because I never expected D&D to have a great ending. They are great at adapting work, great at spectacle but they're not great at writing or storytelling themselves. For me it was like taking a great athlete who is one of the best at their game and replacing them with an average player. If you are expecting greatness than you're going to be disappointed.
Phil's death in front of his wife and two grandchildren (one boy, one girl) is also another bit of foreshadowing to Tony dying in front of his family
Damn didn't notice
Exactly. This would have enraged the NY family and even Little Carmine would call bullshit on Patty and the grandbabies being in grave danger like that. They could have rolled into traffic and all been killed.
Phil’s last words, “Bye bye pop pop”. Genius dialogue
Thought I was the only one that thought that. I felt that's why the Members Only jacket guy went to the bathroom. He was under orders to wait for Meadow so that his whole family was there to see him murdered.
Some good points on this thread
Just did a full rewatch :
Tony is subconsciously not trusting Paulie from the second season. “Our true enemy etc”, not telling him info that he gives to Sil. A treatment given only to Pus. He, like Junior is older and probably feels usurped by younger men.
Paulie is old, childless, alone, cheap and a big talker. In a deleted scene after Feech hits the grass cutter, Paulie lies straight to Tony’s face about the beer he buys him. It may seem small but Paulie is willing to lie to the boss.
The painting is a good counter to this, I think even until the last scene Paulie respects Tony but knows the feeling isn’t as mutual.
Patsi has two of his sons right with Meadow and AJ right up until the shooting. This was a man who was going to shoot Tony in a drunk rage but then we don’t see much else beside the birthday scene. He’s just a yes man from there on out. There is a chance that the ‘all yours’ bathroom scene between Paulie and Patsi was Patsi’s promotiona?
Also he wasn’t even hurt in the shooting of Sil. Could just be luck, I have suspicions though.
Three O clock, there are three Boy Scouts at the diner, three milk cartons, three Soprano members eating three onion rings, 3 times for meadow to park. Third relationship for meadow and what would be the third Assassination of Tony.
All on Tony’s 3 o clock.
The members only jacket is definitely a NY guy, he’s out of town like the other hitmen. Same jacket, that Eugene wore, I don’t think the mention of his jacket was just a throwaway line.
Butchie is clearly also playing chess. Phil was a pain for NY, they didn’t want him as boss. He just lied to T, nail in the coffin for Phil is the China town scene. His assassination is given the go ahead. I don’t think they were upset about his head being smashed. NY are bigger than NJ and had already planned to take them down. Like Carmine Sr said ‘glorified crew’ (not irl) they look down on them. They dgaf about the Soprano crew. Planning to kill him and then nearly killing Coco in front of Butch. They did NOT forgive T. They had already won the war even before Phil attacked. The pieces had been set.
By letting Phil die, Tony was blinded by his personal feelings for Phil and he didn’t have any suspicions.
Tony is still confident. I don’t think he knew he was going to die.
It’s all symbolic in the end. Tony was done for. He killed kin, his best earners like Ralph and Vito, most of the crew are dead or in jail besides a few of the young generation. Besides Paulie, Patsi and Lorenzo ( I don’t think he’s a major back stabber)
Paulie sitting in the only red chair in the sit down, it’s probably nothing but hey maybe
The crew could not beat New York as their crew is already decimated by the end of season 5. Even after the sit down and Phil’s death, the crew is sold out.
Think that’s still unreasonable? Look how many in the crew flipped, (NY) Ray, Jim, Puss, Eugene, Ade, Carlo, John Sac, etc
As it said before, besides the class of 2004 guys who went away in the 80s and the bosses there is no loyalty. People don’t want to go to jail and will typically compromise.
Even IF ( it’s a zero chance now that Chase said the scene is a death scene) Tony lived he still has Carlo to worry about, not to mention the possible skin cancer. He would look over his shoulder for ever anyway. He’s done for.
The words in Latin on the left as Tony walks in the diner is about death. The opening scene of a dead looking Tony and funeral music. The look of fear on his face. Not wearing the exact same outfit and the third person view of T sitting down. It’s not Carm’s POV she hasn’t walked in yet. It is Tony. He’s dead. It’s like Mike and Dickie told Chris in Hell. He is reliving his death over and over. That’s his punishment. “You don’t hear it when it happens”
Ghost of Pus. Ghost of Livia. The dreams of Chris and Tony. The Madonna appearing to Paulie.
The supernatural is 100% real in Sopranos. The pus ghost was what sold it for me. Many Saints and the Chris narration also does sell it to me.
Not to mention the cat, and resurrection in Sopranos. Dickie is a crow, Ade is a cat etc
The cat looking at Chris’s pic constantly, Paulie is itching to get rid of it ‘maybe it smells a dead rat’
The last scene of Paulie is the cat looking at Paulie. Alone.
Also the painting of the house above T in the diner between two variety athletes
He’s a rat. Forget lying about stuff, being cheap and ratting out Ralph. He has a big mouth. He survived the Columbo wars because he’s a survivor like Micha from red dead redemption 2. He cares about No.1 most of the time
There are many dreams in Sopranos that either warn characters or are the subconscious telling them something they know deep down. Like fish pus telling Tony he is a rat, Tony knows but doesn’t act. Tony knows Tony B will kill Phil and Bill and has to kill him etc
The Madonna might be Paulie finally facing he is betraying his friends. Him not being targeted is also more than luck.
Also the final line of many Saints of Newark. “That’s the guy, my uncle Tony. The guy I went to Hell for.”
T also sits in the same seat as the Members only guy in many Saints
I’m not sure if most of this is even possible but it does seem like it. In a show, it’s all intentional, the writing, shooting, acting takes so much planning.
I could be wrong
Or I could be like one of Tony’s dreams subconscious telling him what he knows deep down.
I hope another movie comes out.
Phil was going to kill Butchie. That’s why he turned on him.
How do you know?
Seriously, people can't pay attention
There's a whole scene about it...
Kristijan Ilic Phil was disappointed in Butchie for not ending the war by killing Tony. The threat was there when he was talking to him on the phone
Never mentioned but heavily implied Agent Harris may have preassure for the deal too
"Game of Thrones had a great ending" -said No one.
Gayness of science fiction proportions *
Gayme of Bollox!
I think it was ok
it was sublime
Game of thrones had a glorified ending
Phil told Butch listen kid after this were going to sit down, then cuts him off and hangs up - thats when Butchie switched
Exactly. Phil threatened him and butchie acted out of self-preservation. It’s like this guy didn’t even watch the episode.
this, also the fact that these guys had New York to fear over their actions - Phil was not thinking clearly - and war is constant tension; mind that the NY broke the deal and set the rules for both crews
If you look closely, New York is responsible for Tony's hit - it's cutting the loose end while providing for his family at the same time.
@@doublem1975x Did Butch become head of Phil’s family after Tony had him killed?
@@jacksonellis2320 Probably, only other candidate is Little Carmine but Butchie at that moment had much more power, besides, Little Carmine said to Tony he doesn't wanna any more to be the boss
@@jacksonellis2320 - Of course he did! After the whacking of Phil and Tony.....Butch became..... *DON: DeConcini* the man who took em out (e.g., Tony, Silvio & Bobby B.) and absorbed _the Whole fuckin thing_ ! (i.e., Absorbed all the New Jersey Rackets that the DiMeo's formerly had *and* Don DeConcini will receive Kick-ups from Paulie &/or Patsy!
Butchie was a genius. He was also known as "The Little Guy". So, maybe he had a Napoleon complex. Let's just look at the hospital scene to see just how he isn't afraid of The Big Guy. He totally manhandles Tony even though Tony towers over Butchie.
The entire war was Butchie's idea. "Tony wanted our attention, fine, he got our attention. Now, we wipe him off the planet."
Butchie was conciliatory to Phil Leotardo, so we know he is intelligent and Butchie's advice was valuable. It was Butchie's idea to take out the Jersey Mob. Butchie presented the idea after Phil called Tony's family, a "glorified crew".
Phil Leotardo:
Historically, Carmine always said the Sopranos are nothing more than a glorified crew. Plain and simple. We decapitate and we do business with whatever's left. [ to Albie ] What?
Albie Cianflone:
Nothin'. I agree in spirit but I gotta counsel.
Phil Leotardo:
This thing shoulda been done during John's era.
Butch DeConcini:
They got redundant upper management, bleeds off half the kick. We take 'em out, absorb the whole f***in' thing.
Albie Cianflone:
Take out an entire f***in' family?
Phil losses his cool and orders a war. But it was Butchie's idea that sparked Phil's vengeance. Butchie was not loyal to Phil. Neither was he loyal to Doc Santoro, because Butchie was instrumental in killing a BOSS, by planning the hit.
But I hear you say that Butchie was loyal and never showed any ambition to be the Boss. That's because Butchie is a genius. Butchie knew if you have plans on killing the boss, and you're managing a coup d'etat, you need to remove all suspicion, so you need to ACT loyal. Butchie saw Phil's rage and used the situation for his personal advantage, or, self serving leverage.
Butchie also had a personal grievance. Tony pulled a gun on Butchie and Tony curb stomped Butchie's friend, Coco. Butchie hates Tony and the hospital scene proves it. Butchie directly challenged Tony dared Tony to get violent in a very public place. Butchie knew that Tony couldn't use his best weapon - intimidation through violence - and used the situation to push Tony's buttons. Butchie is the orchestra conductor. He played everyone.
Including Phil. How? Well, when Butchie says to Phil, "You're a man We've seen a lot in our days." Butchie is reminding Phil he's a man. In other words, he's questioning Phil's manhood in a backhanded manner. Also, given the fact that Phil is homophobic and may be a closest homosexual, Butchie was playing on Phil's inner rage, in order to direct it at the "Jersey Crew" and especially Tony.
Butchie was just using an old Italian method of seeking power. Niccolò Machiavelli would be very proud of Butchie's ambition and manipulation. Genius.
Well said. One correction - Butchie says to Phil "youre a man, that's saying ALOT nowadays."
Look, even if he’s loyal. Both Phil and Tony has made their own subordinates lose a lot of confidence and trust in them. Phil made his own borgata fight Jersey while he’s hiding somewhere. That’s NOT an ideal boss. Butchie was slowly losing his nerves. Phil has to go.
Tonys killer was at his 3 o'clock. Just like Christopher told him.
holy fucking shit, I never thought of that!
Damn. You're right.
Layla, you're the first person I ever heard say that...wow! They really did tip us off, didn't they? Thanks for sharing.
It's a a coincidence. Michael Imperiloi wrote the 3 o'clock dialog. No way he had any clue how the series would end.
superchitownhustler damn tho
Paulie took out tony. He became boss. Furio came back, and started slaying Carmela.
Twist..Paulie became boss and Furio came back and became Paulie's "special girl" while Carmela finally "came out" and went to live with Janice.
It’s possible paulie sided with New York after discovering tony was about to be taken out. I mean he did believe the family was cursed.
@@ZakEdwardsOfficial *Parvati
@@ZakEdwardsOfficial This wasnt set in the 2020s
And what’s worse AJ has to start calling Furio Daddy.
Game of thrones season 8 had a wonderful ending? That's some powerful crack your smoking. I wish you'd said that at the beginning.
I always thought that Phil getting his head ran over was representation of his large ego getting smashed
@KidBatersFather counseling
probably, and the 3 camera shots of the vehicle immediately prior to the head-squash prominently showed the Ford logo, which tied into the episode title: "Made in America." Italian Phil became a made man in America, and in the end was squashed by an SUV made in America. Lots of references through the series comparing mob tactics to American corporate and political tactics.
That's because the US government is a glorified mob just look at how they operate and they don't even hide it anymore. Not to mention real life mafia history shows just how close they were with the democratic party in the 60's and 70's and I'd imagine the only thing that's changed is the the power they hold over them
Tony killed a boss of the five families... he was killed by Butchie in retaliation, because A) he needed to distance himself from giving Tony the nod, and B) Phil was killed in front of his family, with no open casket due to his head getting crushed. Tony was killed in front of his family as a punishment. Probably shot in the face as well, so no open casket for him either.
I thought someone else made the call on both Tony and Phil being killed. Both men were seen to be wanting, both men kept warring with each other, both men had to be eliminated. Phil got the order to make it happen.
This guy is right I didn’t see it that way
RDV V
Karma’s a feetch
absolutely right. Butchie played Tony at the end by falsely agreeing to a truce and leading him on to believe that he would compensate Janice for killing Bobby. There was no way Butchie was going to keep his word
Top management of a big family wanted their boss out of the way ..then had 100% support from other fams to kill tony..and take all his biz
never noticed phil coming out the closet...great symbolism
20 years in the can...and 19 of them in the closet
I thought that there was going to be some more overt reference to Phil’s suppressed homosexuality. It obviously shook him up really bad. Both at the time and then later when he is lying in bed.
@@JWFrye who ever said it was suppressed/repressed? He seems more like an "indulge, then decry" type of hypocrit
@@JWFrye Phil seems like a sadist
When Phil was in the can he wanted vagina, but he settled for can.
I think Gary Coopa killed Tony. Think about it he was the strong silent type 🤔
He was gay Gary Cooper?
@@shanewalsh1188 Nooooo! Are you listening to me?!
He is still alive
I’ve always felt that the “members only guy” just went off the reservation like Tony B did. Poetic justice of sorts for Tony protecting his cousin, which is what really played a huge role in all of this tension between New York and New Jersey
“Onion Ring eating family” I’m using that as a insult.
Should have gotten the French fries
Holstens BEST IN THE STATE as far as I'm concerned
I saw another good vid that compared the onion rings to communion wafers (notice they are all placed on the tongue before chewed) and the dinner itself to a Last Supper of sorts.
"for some inexplicable reason" you're literally showing the clip of why butchie turned on Phil
Right? It was because Phil treated Butchie like shit, had him doing all the dirt, and then made him an empty promise before hanging up on him like he was nothing.
Even still. I think Tony was out of line a couple times with Sil but he'd never turn on Tony.
@@TRIIGGAVELLI because Butchie isn't an exact mirror to Silvio. the same way Phil isn't a mirror to Tony. maybe Sil would stand by Tony even if he left everyone in the wind like Phil did, but Butchie wouldn't take it.
@@goobiusthetrafficcone1438 It's hard to say, Butchie only came in to the picture towards the end of show and his character and MO didn't really start to reveal itself until the last few episodes. Tony at least, was for the most part, was an effective leader. And was liked for the most part by his glorified crew. But Phil on the other hand had zero redeeming qualities and was just a cantankerous old fuck that disrespected and berated anyone in his family for at times nothing really.
@@davemeddlehed564 Great point but was that one small amount of disrespect enough to undo long term loyalty to Phil? Is it possible Butch thought if he continued to not get to Tony as quickly as Phil wanted that it would put a target on his own back? If so, see Gotti after Big Paul got news his crew was dealing.
“You’re a man Phil.”
I have to disagree with your interpretation of these and other words from Butchie. He is not kissing Phil’s ass, but knowingly sending him on a warpath. Phil is questioning his legacy at the bar. Butchie knows this, and prods at him. Butchie is not loyal, but only appears to be. He waited until the power vaccuum at the top of the family spat out the other competitors so he could assume the top spot. He then “decapitated” the NJ family and did business with what was left.
I never thought about the angle with Patsy potentially giving up Tony that I’ve read in this comment section, but goddamn is it a compelling and brilliant interpretation...still great vid for inspiring all this talk about such a masterful series.
^100% this, came here to write the same thing. It's two birds with one stone. No one could really like and be loyal to Phil, he's an asshole. Butchie claims the top spot for himself, plus has a much easier time killing Tony when he comes out of hiding on the assumption that he's won. With they killed Phil - in front of his family and in public, and his head getting crushed under the car - they have justification for killing Tony even after the phoney truce. It makes perfect sense. Butchie is a scheming sociopath and isn't loyal to anyone but himself.
It's important to remember that the final 9 episodes show Tony consider killing almost all of his closest friends - he considers killing Bobby in Soprano Home Movies but settles for taking his soul; he considers killing Hesh to avoid paying him back for money he borrowed; and he considers killing Paulie because he's annoying; and of course he actually does kill Christopher, a family member. You could argue this is partly to make the point that these people are animals with no loyalty to anyone - you might find them funny and likeable from a distance, on the TV, but in reality they're sociopathic serial killers, including Butchie.
@Taylor Lemoine He means Patsy giving him up to Butchie. Patsy's son is Meadow's new boyfriend (or fiance I think?), and he's friends with AJ. Patsy also has motive to want Tony dead since he knows he had his twin brother killed, and you might remember in the season 3 premiere Patsy walks through Tony's garden with a gun but changes his mind at the last minute.
The theory is that Patsy knew that Tony was going to be at Holsten's as Meadow would have told him or his son. When you look at what's left of Tony's crew, Patsy would be a likely candidate to become the new boss - a point emphasised by Tony's meeting with Paulie outside the pork store, where it's just the two of them. Tony wants Paulie to become head of the cursed crew as mentioned in this video, and initially Paulie, being superstitious, wants no part of it. Paulie only takes the job when Tony mentions giving it to Patsy instead, who Paulie hates. So you can infer two things from this: 1) Tony is really desperate to be making Paulie the head of this crew, and 2) he's passed Patsy over for Paulie, which would be another insult to him, especially when he's soon going to be father in law to Tony's daughter. Also, you might remember that back around season 3, Christopher was promoted to captain ahead of everyone, and Patsy was the most vocal in complaining about the nepotism.
So it goes like this - Tony kills Patsy's brother. Tony promotes Christopher to Captain ahead of him. Years later, Patsy's son gets engaged to Tony's daughter. Despite this, and with all the high ranking family members dead, Tony promotes Paulie to captain ahead of Patsy. So Patsy sells Tony out to Butchie with intel he's got from Meadow via his son.
@@colacentral Problem is, if we accept that no-one likes Phil, then how did he become leader in the first place lol?
Before accepting, butchie looked at Little Carmine. After Little Carmine noded, only then, Butchei accepted the offer. I think Little Carmine used Butchie like a puppet, a bit like he was used by Angelo. The former consigliere of Little Carmines Father
Which would make Little Carmine's catharsis over leaving the mafia life utterly pointless.
In quantum mechanics, Schrödinger's Tony Soprano is a thought experiment in which a hypothetical wiseguy may be considered simultaneously both alive and dead as a result of his fate being linked to a random subatomic script event that may or may not occur.
Well said, no inferences can be made here. How can a theory be true, if there’s no way of disproving it.
Poetic words
I may, or may not, agree.
Very allegorical.
@@LKaramazov you should prove it true first
The Shah at some point turns on Butchy and starts bitching at him when they talk on the phone while Butchy walks down the street somewhere in NY and Phil is in hiding. THAT's the point where Butch decides he's better off without Phil.
Exactly, that's when Phil says to Butchie "when all this is done, we're going to talk"....(sounded like Butchie was in trouble)
@Devin Carter He knew at this point that going with Tony was the better path to survival.
EXACTLY!! Butchie made a calculated decision that was in his best interest.
@@wrldchamps04 and Phil called Butchy "kid"
Phil was speaking to him like a child
"Game of thrones had a wonderful ending" Very allegorical
The biggest clue for me comes in the last show:
The very beginning: Tony is sleeping in the safe house, somber organ music is playing - the beginning organ of the Vanilla Fudge hit “You keep me hangin’ on”. The shot is framed so Tony looks dead - intolerable he wakes to the start of the lyric.
When Phil Leonardo is whacked, the first verse of the song is on the car radio.
The safe house didn't look impenetrable or truly safe to me. And to trust the newbie mob members to keep it secret and go to the wall for Tony--that didn't sit right with me.
"Phil...I don't know...he's changed. you got my word. we'll back off.". Butchie had experienced how nuts Phil was getting. The phone call where Phil hung up on him being the capper. imo they sold Butchie turning on Phil to a believable level.
“Game of Thrones had a wonderful ending”......Jesus........
Seriously
it DID. The GoT ending was perfect. The Sopranos and Dexter endings were all awesome too. Some just don't get it and need shit spelled out for them - nothing you can do to help people like you. Jesus. Some stuff is just written for a higher level of intelligence
@@sykadelik459 Game Of Thrones died after season 3.
andy lai Nah season 4 is the best GoT season.
he's delusional.
Everyone knows the guy in the member's only jacket owned the pizzeria, and AJ was killed in the final scene for leaving him high and dry when he quit as manager
It's like Chrissy said the one time, you don't disrespect the pizza parlor!
@@paddytanager5258 I love Soprano s comment sections on You Tube lmao 😁
@@meschachhorne7407 Same, also seeing how many people know as many obscure lines from the show is awesome too.
*puts gun to aj's head*
But you're the manayer.
This would've been total fan service
Butchie triple crossing the bosses of NY and NJ respectively to control both NY and NJ makes perfect sense. He's a surprise. You never see him coming. He represents quiet earnest unfaltering overambition, that is rarely rash or foolish, that is content to wait and bide its time. Seeing all the angles, assesses all the angles and methodically proceeding to manip/control all those angles and achieving the desired outcome. He puts up the front of a loyal soldier/lieutenant and Lupertazzi family fanatic, all the while coveting the top stop for himself. Probably the most interesting character on the show and one the audience knew least about, he's a peripheral character and shadowy. We get the sense he's been around a long time (he's an older cat) and paid his dues but he blends in, he doesn't stand out, being cockeyed makes him at once seem less threatening and yet somehow menacing. You really don't notice him which makes his treachery all the more compelling. He springs from the shadows like some feral animal or monster or gollum.
Butchie is a more cunning version of Carmine Perisco. That's a perfect description of him.
With you all the way. But I want to know more and probably never will.
You lost all credibility after that comment about games of thrones.
I don't know. This guy has a voice that would have made him a ⭐ on Sopranos. With his voice, I'm gonna find whatever he says about Costa no scrub to be credible!!!
I thought Butchie's betrayal of Phil showed he was the most dangerous of all the characters.
He's the last guy you would suspect of gunning for the top job but he not only engineered the crisis so that he could become head of New York. He did it in a way where Jerseys family was wiped out.
He stepped into the throne AND took control of Jersey at the same time. He was never loyal to Phil. He was biding his time, manipulating both sides in a way that resulted in him becoming stronger than any other boss on the show.
It ties into Tony's love of historical political leaders too. He thought of himself as a Caesar, an untouchable general and was ultimately taken out by treachery and betrayal and by trusting the wrong people.
i'd like to think after the show ends, it's butchie as king of new york and the soprano family is actually just a lupertazzi crew now with paulie, patsy and benny left.
Actually new york had a ton of guy's this is admitted many time's on the sopranos i doubt butch would had took it. Seems to me would had been a good time for someone like johnny sacs crew or even little carmine would take over New York.
Nobody:
You: This is a Sopranos video, but let me also say the wrongest thing I can think of about the end of GoT...
There were two other clues I think also pointed to Tony's demise. First, in the episodes before the finale, Tony goes into hiding with members of his crew. He goes up to that bedroom and goes to sleep. The next morning, we see him lying there and its bright and the entire background is white. This scene is important because it leads up to my second point. The final scene where his family is at the restaurant did you notice Tony was wearing a black jacket and he goes up to the window and sees himself inside the restaurant sitting at the table. That was because he was already dead. He was reliving his execution. Do you remember the episode where Christopher said he saw his dad in hell? He mentioned that his father told him he was reliving his execution every day in hell. Now go back to what I said about my first point. Tony was lying there with a very bright light and white background, which was actually his coffin he was in. Then he relives the last day of his life leading up to the scene where we see him peering into the window of the restaurant and sees himself sitting at the table. Remember what Christopher's father said, and that is what was happening to Tony as well. The title of the show told you who shot Tony. It was not the guy in the members only jacket. The title of the last episode was, "Made in America". When the restaurant scene starts notice the guy sitting ahead of Tony's family, he is wearing a ball cap with the American flag and some faded writing. He was the shooter, thus the title of the last episode made reference to the shooter. Let me know what you think. I know you posted this 2 years ago and I agree with your clues. I think my additional points also make it undeniable, Tony was whacked. THANKS FOR POSTING.
I need to update my statement to a degree. Tony in the last scene where he is wearing the black jacket goes inside the restaurant and sees himself sitting at the table. Notice the Tony that is sitting at the table looks up and a woman comes in, yet the other Tony is not there anymore. Also, I was mistaken on one thing. The shooter was wearing a ball cap that had USA Letters with the flag's colors in the letters on the front, I thought it was the American Flag by itself. (I went back and watched that scene again. LOL) Still those things definitely show Tony was whacked. I also believe Butchie ordered the hit and then he would absorb what was left of Tony's crew into his organization. One last thing. I watched the last part of the scene where Tony hears the door chimes and looks up and the screen goes black. Look at the direction Tony's eyes are looking. They are looking straight up towards the restaurant's front door. The guy with the USA ballcap was sitting directly in front of Tony. The guy in the members jacket went to the restroom, and had he been the shooter Tony was sitting angled from the restroom off to the side. He would have had to turn his head to see the guy if he was the shooter. Instead, his head stayed still, and he looked directly up which indicated the shooter approached him from the front. Like I stated the last episode was titled, "Made in America". There is no doubt in my mind the man in the USA ball cap was the shooter. Take care and again thanks for posting this video. The Sopranos was one of the best shows HBO ever produced. :)
@The Dark Knight Very strong theories. I think you might be right. His daughter not being present also indicates that she is separated from this life. She will not be directly involved. I think you make a really strong case, there is also a link with the members only jacket and there was an earlier episode called "Members Only", as well as the Godfather reference of Michael Corleone going to the bathroom to retrieve a gun before killing the Turk. All of this action is meant to throw us off and leave the audience coming up with different theories.
I do 100% believe that Tony was killed in that final moment. That's why the screen goes black. The show is over. Lights out.
Thanks for sharing all of this. I enjoyed it.
That's a really strong theory and good observations. I noticed his black jacket too. I was like when he sat down, where's his jacket? did he change outfits suddenly?
Rewatching the scene, I saw that he took off his jacket and it's on the seat next to him. That's a good observation that it looks like he walks into the restaurant and sees himself sitting at the table. Especially with the way they shot it and the camera angles. But I think it can also be just him walking in seeing if his family is there yet, he looks at the tables and sees that they're not there. So he gets a table. Then the next shot is of him sitting at the table. They might have shot it that way to make it ambiguous.
I don't know if that USA hat guy was sitting in front of Tony. I think there was an old lady and her family sitting there, in the seat behind AJ. But great observation about the title of the episode.
Great until the BS about Game of Thrones.
Yeah, fuck that show.
Yep GoT is overrated garbage
Game of thrones was a good show, but Sopranos is the yard stick with which all tv shows must be measured.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
GOT was on par with Sopranos and The Wire for four seasons. Season five and six were a notable decline in quality though, and season seven and eight were quite horrendous.
I always thought that Butchie didn't ever changed his mind. It was just a trap for Tony to show himself and be killed without a direct responsability
Medow never had the makings of a varsity parallel paker
After rewatching the entire series, I've come to the conclusion that I hate everything about Meadow.
Carmela was the worst
@@lfbashir2967 not by a long shot
Horrible
"Parker."
I said the same thing. I just finished the show today and I thought it was fairly obvious Butch was behind everything since he was willing to call it off while they were winning!!
Game of Thrones, whatever happened there
Why would you possibly bring that up.
Hoooooo!
WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE????!!!!
Underrated comment.
That animal Daenerys, Jon Snow's cousin. I can't even say her name.
The Soprano’s Series Finale: Carmela’s gravy train comes to a stop
Tony set her up with the financial planner
He had millions in offshore banks in the event he went to prison or was killed. She was fine after him
he is still alive its the actor that died
Meadow is is the only one alive, the other 3 got whacky
At least she had the duck food money.
I don't think we saw enough of Butch to say that he was "so loyal" to Phil. You didn't mention the scene where Butch is doing his best to locate Tony and Phil acts upset and says "we need to talk"...when he is walking through little Italy. I think you were supposed to assume that Phil's decision to be "uncompromising" was starting to rub Butch the wrong way.
It also isn't automatically a given that Butch becomes the new boss. Phil was only boss a very short time and these things are very political.
If Tony was killed at the end it could have been New York not liking how Phil was gunned down in front of his wife and grandchild. And they okay'd the hit...it could have come from Butch or a panel of Capo's or even the the Commission.
If the Jersey Family survived after Tony dies I would say the Larry Boy/Albert Barese crew of the family, which was the largest even though we never saw the other members, would be more competent at running the family than Pauly or Patsy.
I agree with ya that Albert or Larry would've been boss. Paulie would be a terrible choice and would be killed within days. And patsy has always been a numbers guy/ soldier. He was never a captain so he didn't have the backing.
Derek Gabrys - You nailed it Derek. He clearly forgot about the scene where Butch was talking to Phil and Phil tells him we’re gonna have to have a sit down because he was upset with him, then deliberately just hangs up on him blaming the connection.
And Tony's main power base of the family was basically destroyed...so it would make sense if the new administration of the family came from the largest, strongest, and most together crew. Pauly would probably still be a captain and maybe Patsy. Not sure who else is really left that we knew. There were other crews in the family that we never got to meet many of the members...the mob usually always has other guys who think it is their turn to move up.
@@stormedcapone I don't know about Larry. He ended up in the clink for violating his house arrest, which shows he lacks the judgement to be a boss. Albert...whatever happened to him after Season 4? Patsy? Who knows? He may have been biding his time, staying below the radar, waiting for the opportunity. But, you're right about Paulie.
@@brenthenshaw3585 I don't know that you can't be a boss for violating house arrest. He probably just wanted to get out. Like me during Covid shutdowns.
The biggest clue he was whacked is something very few noticed. Each time the bell rang when someone came in, we'd see tony look up, then we'd switch to his pov seeing who entered. Happened every time - until the last time. He was dead so we COULDN'T see who came in from his pov ever again.
That crunching sound when Phil's head got run over.
Oh shit!
🤮
Oh Marone...
Whatever happened there.
More like a wet pop.
Phil passive aggressively threatened Butchy. "When this is over, you and I are gonna have a talk, Kid"
Even after all this time, I still watch the Sopranos.
Always go back to the holy trinity of hbo... Oz, Sopranos and the wire.. The shows that gave us TV shows as we have it today
I can still watch the Sopranos and enjoy it. I can't even think about GoT's.
@@tjzini always knew it was over rated lol never watched a single episode. play enough Skyrim don't need to watch that kind of crap. I'd rather watch Lord of the Rings Fellowship, Two Towers, and Return of the King.
@Andy Vester they all added to it but Im guessing Oz sopranos and the wire are the ones MOST people watched.. I've been meaning to watch deadwood myself
@Andy Vester Totaly agree, even the ones I haven't seen i remember how well received they where.. I just like to use oz sopranos and the wire as the trio since they where all In the first batch of shows from 96-01 and at least 2 of them are in the discussion for all time greatest TV shows (I feel oz is HIGHLY underated though)
I believe that ot doesn't matter whether he died in the restaurant or elsewhere, he was on a downward spiral and wasn't going to live long. All his associates were tainted with a couple of exceptions. The most tainted was his cousin Christopher. It was not going to be the Sopranos if it was drawn out. He was as good as dead by the time of the family meal, probably their last happy time they would have.
Butchy thought he was in trouble with Phil so turned on him to save himself
This is what I and several friends of mine believe.
Sir BlackBoss and i think if tony was killed it was probably butchy who did it. Tony killed in front of his family like Phil was is a strong message and Butchy covering up his involvement by retaliating 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly. It's not rocket science.
Something that people often forget when trying to analyse the final scene is that it was intended to be the final scene even before season 6 got extended and split into two parts; in other words, people tend to think of season 6B as season 7, but if you watch those first few episodes of season 6A (which began FILMING before another order of episodes was requested by HBO, i.e. it began filming with the cast and crew all believing it was the final season), they are all about death. The first episode in particular has alot of death - Adriana's ghost; Junior talking about the guy he killed in the pilot; the hit in the cafe that resembles the Holsten scene; the hanging; what's his name dying of a stroke in the FBI car; Tony getting shot; the "seven souls" song from the opening montage. It's only when the order for new episodes came in that the season lost its momentum and padded itself with the Vito storyline.
My belief is that the Vito storyline was intended to be only one or two episodes at most; I'm leaning towards one. Because if you think about it, season 6B picks up and almost every episode is about a single side character that Tony destroys or threatens to destroy - there's an episode where he considers killing Hesh; an episode where he considers killing Paulie; the Christopher death episode; the episode where Bobby dies. I believe the original intention was to have Vito be one of an avalanche of deaths happening in a matter of only 12 episodes, but when season 6 was expanded out to 20 something episodes and padded, that effect is lost somewhat. I believe that if the season had gone this way, with death all over it, the final scene would be debated the way that it was.
There are a few clues in season 6a to indicate that the events of 6b were intended to happen during that season even when production began - off the top of my head, Bobby's sudden interest in trains is introduced in the opening montage of 6A. Why does Bobby's interest in trains have any relevance to the events of 6A? You could argue that it's just a character quirk but it's never mentioned again until the Blue Comet. I believe they had his death scene, and the metaphor of the train leaving the station, already in mind in 6A, and intended to pay it off in that season, not 6B.
Another clue is Agent Harris - he has virtually an identical scene in both 6A and 6B, when he warns Tony of Phil's plans in the pork store. In 6B he essentially says "hey remember last season when I told you there'd be a war with Phil but it never happened? Yeah it's happening this season instead."
I think Season 6B is a negative of Season 6A. After Tony is released from the hospital he tries a kind of redemption, to start a new chapter of his life where he will be better. Thus he avoids a conflict with NY, he avoids cheating on his wife, he is more conciliatory etc. Moreover, the finale of season 6A is very optimistic.
Then in season 6B all his worst vices reappear in an even more brutal way, his paranoia, his addiction to gambling, his violence and his hyprocrisy. Moreover at the end of the show he forgot a piece of advice he had given to his son "you have to focus on the good times". The scene of a family meal in a restaurant clearly echoes the last scene of season 1 where he declaims this sentence in Artie's restaurant. The circle has come full circle and Tony has never ceased to be more and more monstrous, until the destruction of his two families.
I think Bobby's interest in trains is to illustrate his alienation from his son, and it also adds to his character as being gentle and thoughtful and not like most wise guys. I agree though, it feels a bit clumsy and tacked on.
Butchie saw the Chinese people at the end of his phonecall before he agreed to have Phil whacked. He saw how they were basically killing eachother while the Chinese and other minorities were moving in. Butchie didn't want to see more Italians being killed and was convinced that Phil would have whiped out the Sopranos' crew killing even more. Whereas Phil getting whacked would have ended things there.
Only it didn’t (if Tony was ultimately killed anyway)
You missed what the scene was supposed to mean, little Italy was a big place for the mob back in the day and used to be way bigger. But like the tourist guide said “It’s now reduced to one block.” That scene represents the decline of the mob. There’s a real good reddit thread about it if you want the link.
@@bozotheclown666 I think it symbolized that Phil's leadership was weak and he was leading his family into more losses. By the time the phone call ends, Butchie ends up lost and derailed from the path he wanted to take.
@@Jorg13 yup that 1
I like how even years after the show, you can still see how many people have different interpretations on what each scene meant. Only this thread you have like 4 different views.
I’ve never heard anyone point out the Butchy thing as a problem before. I just finished a rewatch of the entire series (again) and it didn’t occur to me. I always just accepted that Butchy was fed up with Phil but honestly, there isn’t much setup to the betrayal at all. So well done 👍
Except they are all in the mafia and not just a bunch of friends. Look at the way Butchie looks at Phil when Tony talks about him crying in the hospital. Then Phil leaves him out to dry.
To me it’s obvious. Butchy never gave up Phil’s location. He just needed to make Tony feel comfortable so he could get him back in the open and clip him. Which is what happened in the last episode.
Nah what really happened is one of those damn terrorist nukes went off in the port of jersey shipping containers and wiped out the whole city
Rum Hammm!!!! Rummm Haaammmm!!! I’m sorry Rum Haamm!! 😭😭
Butch didn’t know where Phil was. Phil never told him in that phone conversation they had. Butch pretended like he knew at the Tony/Little Carmine sit down. He said something like, “I can’t go there.”
David Chase recently in an interview confirmed Tony was killed at the end so there's that...
not true.
@@superchitownhustler cool
superchitownhustler Is true. He called the final scene the “death scene”
Thank you @@MrMalicious5 now go get your shine box @superchitownhustler
@@MrMalicious5 Yep. It's true. Pretty obvious tho.
This sounds like it’s been narrated by Bobo from the Opie and Anthony Show, like they trained Bobo to talk coherently for 12 minutes about Sopranos stuff
I didn't quite get the Sopranos to begin with, to me it was an acquired taste but later I bought the complete box sets and watched them with my brother, then realised just how goot it was and how good the actors were- David Chase did a wonderful job with this and ended it perfectly, black screen, no music the end of Tony and the Sopranos- classy! RIP James Gandolfini and Tony Soprano.
The reference to GOT ending is fatal to this 12 minutes, and it is unforgivable. You are dead to me.
I felt the same way as you. Exactly. I mean, how can we take this guy seriously now?
I think we as fans, everyone of us have a right to imagine our own ending to that television show. In one of the interviews David Chase has done over the years he stated that he really wanted to leave the fans with was the fact that no matter what happens from here on out, just as it always been from season one episode one, that Tony will always be looking over his shoulder and watching every door That opens in every car that drives by. And as far as Butchie goes he really had everything to gain by making peace with Tony. He was going to be in charge of the family after that hit and he’s inheriting a family that had just made peace with the Sopranos. It’s a win-win for him and now he doesn’t have to worry about the Sopranos taking him out either. I mean if you were actually keeping score on how many guys from each family killed the other , The sopranos have easily killed more New York guys the New York guys killed the Sopranos. Really the sopranos crew only lost two main guys during that last season in Christopher and Bobby. ......In my version of the Sopranos universe all that happens is Tony looks up to see meadow come in they have a great dinner and as they’re leaving he gets a call from Paulie saying that Sil has Woken up and is talking.
David Chase also said in an interview that it was a hit scene.
@@markoneill4589 You're taking what he said out of context. He said he didn't mean it as a death scene.
Right? The NY crew says that the DiMeo family is a "Glorified crew" but they've had the upperhand for a while. Bobby, Chris, Patsy, and Sil getting killed obviously does huge damage (plus Carlo testifying), but Phil is dead. If I remember correctly, not many people liked Phil. Maybe after he went, the others in his crew left as well.
Still a great series and finale. Think of it this way, here we are 14 years later still talking about it, analyzing it and loving it.
I always assumed that Butchie wasn’t really betraying Phil, and that it was a set up. That’s why he didn’t give Phil’s location. He didn’t really expect Tony to find him.
Is this Rummys Corner? Sounds just like the boxing guru rummy
I also thought it was the same guy.
It is the same guy
Gotta be the same guy
Dude I said the same thing a few months ago, he never answered
Oh hey it does say so, at the end of the video
*WRONG.* This is an inaccurate recounting of the situation. Butch was not the boss of Brooklyn now- Little Carmine was. One of the contingencies Tony pushed George to secure for him when arranging the sit down was for Little Carmine to be there, and to finally assume control of the Brooklyn family. Throughout the sit-down itself we see Butch always look to Little Carmine first before agreeing to any of Tony's conditions. This further demonstrates that Little Carmine is now the boss in Brooklyn, not Butch.
Besides, I still want someone to explain to me the practical nuts-and-bolts of how Tony was killed here instead of the same 'ol symbolic, potentially foreshadowed clues that were sprinkled throughout Season 6 which get endlessly cited, yet may or may not not mean anything at all. I still want to know, "How the hell did the Brooklyn crew actually pull it off?!" It simply doesn't add up.
The one thing everyone always overlooks is why the Sopranos are even at the restaurant in the first place. It wasn't planned. The plan was for a family dinner at home where Carmella would cook rigatoni, but she *had to cancel at the last minute* when she received an unexpected call about something that arose at one of her real estate homes that demanded her attention. How in the hell would Brooklyn have had the time or insight to know where Tony would be eating in order to plant a gun in the restroom ahead of time? It's impossible.
Tony was the most meticulous wiseguy of them all. He always knew when he was being followed by someone, and was thorough in checking his phones for bugs. The possibility that he would suddenly become careless now is infintesimal.
Compounding this is the fact of where Tony had just came from before arriving at the restaurant.
He was visiting Junior in the nursing home. That was his last stop. Everyone knew Tony loathed Junior after the shooting, so the idea he may stop by to visit his senile uncle for the first time in years would've been off the table entirely. Even if mob hitmen were staking out the institution after all, why wait until Tony gets inside the restaurant first to do it? It'd be far easier and impossible to solve if they just pulled up beside him and unloaded their guns into Tony when he was stopped at a red light or something.
Which leads us now to the most inexplicable component of all. For 6+ years we saw how mob hitmen operated. Dressed in dark jumpsuits, caps, and shades they walked straight in and shot their targets, and left immediately afterwards. They would've never stopped by the bar to order something first- in full view of surveillance cameras where they weren't even trying to conceal their faces -before killing their targets. Furthermore, we all know the only one, true rule that all the five families still adhered to throughout the series was not involving wives and children. And the guy in the Members Only jacket would've had time to shoot Tony before Carmella & the kids came in to join him. It makes no sense to wait for the killers to wait for Meadow to be seated first. None whatsoever.
Lastly, the war was over by that point! The idea that Brooklyn felt so enraged to avenge Phil's death because his wife and grandchild witnessed it is ridiculous. Brooklyn had already given Jersey their permission to hit Phil. I don't believe the manner in which Jersey chose to whack Phil earlier would've ruffled so many feathers among Brooklyn leadership that Phil's must be avenged holds water. Brooklyn was just as ready to move on from Phil as Jersey was. They'd all talked about how Phil was now dragging them down over losing sight of what his true priorities should've been as boss. It was no longer about making sure everyone in the Brooklyn crew was earning money, but Phil's selfish revenge where he led his captains around in circles by never arriving for the sitdows he promised while still bmaking sure he gets his cut of the earnings no matter what.
We know this because of what happened in the opening moments of this episode. Butch and one of his other captains were waiting for Phil when he called at the last minute to say he won't be coming. This causes Butch to start walking while he's on the phone with Phil that ends with him looking up after hanging up to realize he was somehow in Chinatown now. It's a metaphor telling the viewer that Butch now recognizes, for the first time, that Phil is leading them astray. He doesn't even recogize where he is as a result of listening to Phil Leotardo.
I know this was a long one, but I hope you made it this far to see where I'm coming from here. I don't see a practical way for Tony being killed at the end. It's extremely inconsistent and illogical within the fictional universe itself.
The ex school friend the son met in the mental hospital was a plant. She was there when he was told of the family’s eating plan that night.
You make some good points.
That doesn't really make sense.... she also knew where the family was hiding and when / where AJ was seeing his dad before Phil was murdered, before the sit-down with Butch. Little Carmine tried to broker a deal with Phil and Tony and Phil disrespected not only Tony, but Carmine as well. Carmine as the new boss wanting to get rid of Phil so they can get back to business makes more sense, especially since Phil backed John when they were in a power struggle after Carmine Sr. died.
Nailed it, man.
Britton Thompson's most powerful point is ne which I've made previously several times: that the MEMBERS ONLY guy would never have exposed himself to such risks by killing Tony in such a public. Cameras, witnesses, Meadow coming to sit down blocking his way, the code not to kill made guys in front of their family....I could go on and on..
There were many other better ways of killing Tony.
public place (see my previous reply above)
“And Riddick Bowe and Evander Holyfield had one of the greatest boxing matches...”
-Rummy. Probably on a different video.
Soon as I heard the voice I was waiting for the Rummyyysss corrnerrr
My problem with the ending is that we were looking through Meadow's eyes when it went black. If the camera was from Tony's POV looking up at Meadow it would have made more sense, unless the director was saying that Meadow got whacked.
The last few scenes do establish the fact the POV is Tony's. Right from when he sits down at the restautant, everytime somebody enters through the door, it is preceeded by the sound of the bell, followed by a close up of Tony, then a shot of the person entering the door. This happens during Carmela, AJs entrances. So after Parking when Meadow is supposed to enter, Tony looks up followed by a Black screen which is supposed to be Tony' POV, which implies nothingness, which implies he is killed
@@vishagrajendra4591 I almost think it would've been better had we got a brief glimpse of Meadow from Tony's POV then cut to black. Maybe it would've hit harder emotionally, idk.
@@MrSamsonite22 they do explain Meadows reaction without showing it, By having Phil Killed in the exact same way infront of his grandchildren. And the woman in the car screaming.
There is also another scene where Phils Goomar is killed after her is father is shot.
Mob Hits depicted in the show were almost all headshots, So unless he was deliberately shot in the chest, a POV with Meadow in it wouldnt had justified.
I think this video can prove that butch played the long game and was the one who got tony killed. Assuming he became boss after phil, no one would be opposed to seeing tony die when he doesn’t have a capable crew anymore. Regardless of how he respects Phil verbally, the look of butch reminds me of a close advisor ready to backstab if it makes him personally better off.
Never expected Butch to follow through on a deal. I was stymied as to why Tony so easily accepted and shook hands.
the guy in the members only jacket in the diner, who walks past Tony, goes in the bathroom and gets a gun and kills Tony just like in Godfather.
Tony was never killed
Yeah.If Tony was “never killed” why have the camera on the Members only jacket guy going to the bathroom? It is pretty clear that he whacked Tony.
“Isaac Newton invented gravity cause some asshole hit em wit a apple”
The only problem I had with a soprano ending is they didn't show Carmella handing out Polish sausage at the grocery store🌭
In reality, the Jersey mob had 5 captains, and 50 made members.
The show only showed no more than a dozen members.
That's not that good to face off against a New York family though. Killing 5 to 10 guys would cripple the Jersey guys
Yes, but as long as the guys on the street can still perform hits, killing captains wouldn't really be that difficult for both sides.
@@heatherperleberg7816 one a da sides....
@@theportugueselegend Yeah, but they only killed one guy, and put the other in a coma. Tony's family was just fine.
@@histguy101 Not true. Carlo turned states, Burt got killed too, and the DiMeo had some of the best earners (Vito and Ralphie) already outta the picture. That familly started killing themselves by the 3rd season, they were very crippled when the war with NY was in full blow
No big mystery there at all. Butch could tell Phil was pissed off at him for failing to kill Tony when he got Sil and Bobby..
Go back and listen to the phone conversation between Butch and Phil. Butch and his soldier are out in the cold air with snow falling, the soldier falls back and Butchie doubles back after catching hinself venturing into Chinatown.
Phil said "When this is all over, kid, me and you are going to have a talk" Butchie says "I hooe so" and Phil says "What's that? You're breaking up."
That's when Butch knew he was in deep shit and decided to make a deal with Tony while he still had some leverage.
That part
You described it perfectly. Fortunes change when it's advantageous. Butch probably saw Phil as too passion-driven and old school in his approach. He was obsessed with femininity and homosexuality, loyalty and what he was due, the rules of this thing, etc. He wasn't made for the boss position after so long inside. Butch also probably just wanted Phil out of the way at that particular moment so that he could take out Jersey as well as his own boss - he would "take 'em out, absorb the whole fuckin' thing". Allowing Phil and Tony to ruin each other and then moving in to scoop up the spoils is a classic tactic. As you said, Jersey were already defeated and Tony would have to go soon too, but why not let him handle Phil first and then become a 5 families boss himself? Phil and Butch spoke on the phone in Made in America and Phil expressed his disappointment that Tony hadn't been taken out first. An experienced guy like Butch wouldn't have made that mistake. I don't know how long there was between Bobby's killing and Phil's, but it was at least 48 hours if you go by the day and night scenes in the episode. Why would Butch leave that long before killing Tony? Because he needed the boss, the man most invested in the beef, to take out Phil for him.
Great analysis!
An additional point on why Butch would need Tony to kill Phil is that The Commission would never sanction Butch to take out his boss for no other reason than his ambition or low opinion of him. Having Tony do that as part of their beef worked perfectly, especially if Tony was going to be next. I happen to also think that Butch and Paulie were working together. Paulie said he had to "take care of some other business" with Butchie. That was probably his big worry about Carlo turning rat and the knowledge he had of Tony speaking to regularly the FBI. With Tony's inevitable indictment looming, Paulie and Butch would be wise to think that Tony would rat out New York, Paulie and anyone else to avoid a lengthy sentence. As you touched on, it's strange that Butchie had that sit down and agreement with Tony when he had all the bargaining chips - it didn't make sense. You're right, Butchie only did it because he knew he was going to use Tony to kill Phil and wait until that job was done before taking Tony out too.
@@Josh-ql3be Good points.
Do you think Patsy Barisi became the Boss of the NJ Crew and Paulie became his right hand?
Patsys twin brother was murdered by an order of Tony and Patsy already tried to kill Tony. He had a motive to sell out Tony. And Paulie had already shown his position in the interactions with Johnny Sack. Paulie also was worried about himself as Tony made a move on him at the boat trip.
The way Patsy and his wife looked around in the Sopranos mansion when visiting the Sopranos suggests that they were going to take over the Soprano home the same way it happened before with Ginny Sack.
I think Carmela knew deep down that Tonys end would come sooner or later and that's why she was so busy with the spec house, properties etc.
Because she didn't want to end like Angie Bompensiero or Ginny Sack.
@@unalson9514 I think you're definitely right about Carmela and this is foreshadowing of Tony's eventual demise, as is the scene with Patsy and his wife in the Soprano home, which you rightly point out. I think it's plausible that Patsy moves into a higher position after Tony gets hit, but I think Paulie is the real guy to take over. It would have been his price for helping Butchie. I just don't see Patsy as being important enough in the family to take top spot. There are well-known theories about Patsy being the guy to kill Tony or arrange it (he definitely has a motive and lots of foreshadowing), but I actually think he's a sneaky David Chase device, put there to draw attention away from the real culprits and take the blame - a patsy, if you will.
@@unalson9514 ppp0p0ppppq
in his last phone call with phil, butchy realizes phil's vendetta is more about his own ego than a code or business. phil hangs up because the service is bad, showing he is out of touch with others. butchy wanders into chinatown without noticing while he is distracted by phil's phone call, showing he has been led astray.
Patsy knew Tony would be eating in the diner because his son was dating Meddow. Patsy told the NewYork crew and Butch organised the hit. This was Patsy's revenge for Tony ordering the killing of his twin brother, plus the Family was already in tatters so Patsy had nothing to lose by switching to the stronger NY family.
If you watch closely it seemed Paulie and Patsy were in on it and likely went along with T being hit then absorbed the power vacuume and assumed the boss and underboss roles.
New York had nothing to do with Tony's hit. It was all Patsy or maybe with Paulie's help. Carlo's son Jason got pinched for dealing and so Carlo flipped to protect him. Jason hung out and got into trouble with Patsy's son Jason. They would have been arrested together. If Tony found out, he would have had Patsy whacked out of sheer caution so Patsy acted first. And yeah, the fact that Tony killed his brother would have made it an easy decision.
Patsy's kid was also detained apparently on some drug charge by cops. If Tony found out, he would have reason to kill Patsy.
No, Patsy was family to Tony now. No way he would give up a cushy spot to go into NY not knowing the unknown.
@@superchitownhustler I thought it was Carlos? He was going to get hit for being a snitch.
Couple of reasons why I think Butch’s move made sense.
Using your argument, I agree that the DiMeo Family was decimated. Despite that, Phil considered Butch’s job a failure and had warned Butch there would be repercussions. Butch realized he was at a stalemate and would likely not find Tony anytime soon.
In addition, Butch was obviously a target himself. Every day the war kept going is another day his life was in grave danger. Realizing he couldn’t get Tony, and couldn’t please Phil, he decided to make the best
move for himself.
I also believe perception played a big role in taking out Tony. NY wouldn’t have wanted to live with the perception that Jersey won. Also, I think there would’ve been blowback with Phil being killed in front of his wife and grandkids and having his head smashed.
There’s also a possibility that Butch never intended for Phil to be taken out and simply wanted Tony to let his guard down. Obviously, Butch could’ve never known that Tony had an FBI agent feeding him information. Tho I’m not as keen on this theory because George brokered that meeting and I think what they say is supposed to mean something. I dont think itd bode well for Butch in that world to use Georgie (a former boss) for his own personal gain..
In furtherance of your theory: Junior established the “these things happen in threes” concerning death in Another Toothpick. A third Soprano associate had to be the third.
My take is that Butchie realized things had gotten out of control with Phil and that Phil’s ego would always take center stage, so he decided to let New Jersey take him out. After that, I think it’s totally plausible that he decided to have Tony whacked, since, as you said, Tony’s crew was pretty much taken down. It’s all win-win for Butchie. With Tony gone and the DiMeo crime family virtually extinct, all that money in NJ would go to him.
Butch had a strange way about him. His face didn't seem "real." It looked to me like more like a dead man's face with no life in it--literally pasty and kind of patched together. He almost seemed to me like someone who was almost killed earlier and some surgeon put that face together. He seemed "walking dead" to me, over-ambitious for a "little" guy, playing out his own hand. There's more to Butch than initially noticed, but I wish someone smarter than I am would give me some clues.
The last episode was about us the audience. Tony wasn’t killed, we were!
Nah. I read that article too...compelling, but nah. Tony's decline was evidenced throughout the buildup and the issues with Patsy were never resolved. Patsy had Tony killed, but we, the audience, didn't get to witness the aftermath because we were only privy to Tony.
@@RawJa777 why do you think Patsy killed Tony? I mean I understand that he killed his brother and all that stuff but why now?
Why now!? Leave the cheese WHERE IT IS!
@@RawJa777 it's because the show was generally done in a first person perspective...... through tony.
he is our anchor in the show.
when he ceased to be, we ceased to be.
All the evidence is there that suggests Tony's demise. If not of been killed he would of been indicted by the feds. He loses either way. Not to mention the last scene there is a POV, we see the world through Tony's eyes, then, suddenly everything goes black. "You probably don't even realize it when it happens". There's all kinds of evidence in the plot and there's all kinds of symbolism in the actual scene itself.
I was with you until you said GoT had a good ending.
In a show that subverts your expectations at every turn, that’s exactly why I think he wasn’t murdered
I always thought that Butchie flipped for self-preservation. After that phone call with Phil where Butchie ended up in Chinatown and Phil basically let him know that after it was all over Butchie would probably be whacked for how he handled Jersey.
That scene in Chinatown where Butchie is (literally) alienated and frozen out.