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Helicopter with Rocket Blades
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2021
- By the time the Korean War ended in 1953, helicopters such as the Piasecki H-25 and the Sikorsky H-19 Chickasaw had become a staple of the United States Air Force. But getting there wasn't achieved without its difficulties.
To overcome some of the operational challenges brought on by perilous mountains and unpredictable weather, the Bureau of Aeronautics, Sikorsky Aircraft, Reaction Motors, and the Marine Corps developed the Rocket On Rotor power plant.
The auxiliary power boost system, which could be activated with a switch installed in the cockpit, employed rocket engines mounted on rotor blade tips.
If successful, this innovative device would render American helicopters capable of performing maneuvers no other aircraft could.
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I think I know why it was never used. The advent of the turbine engine which was being tested at this time. Would make the ROR obsolete before it could be installed.
Bingo. The legendary Bell Huey first flew in 1956.
That and the logistics of keeping operational units supplied with the fuel, spare blade tip rockets, etc.
Safety too.. that concoction on HP was incredibly dangerous just hitting a line or the capsule would basically ensure the death of the helo and crew.
As someone who flies helis
It VERY likely failed because the rotor blades are not meant to have torque originating from the tips…. Also additional vibrations will completely fuck up your blades
@J D I remember that episode, too. I don't remember the stamp causing any problems. What if a bird shit on a rotor blade? That weighs more than a stamp. There would be helicopters crashing everywhere!
I'm sure that these rotors were designed with that in mind.
Wouldnt they have seen rotor blade instability issues while testing the ROR?
I think it likely failed because it was a lot easier to just get more hp out of the motor in the next revision than to install an additional power system.
The turbine powered helicopter came along not much later which really helped out the power situation also.
I trained in Bell 47s in Janesville, Wisconsin, during the summer of 1989. High density altitude every day. Our fuel was limited to half tanks just so we could hover. The ROR system would have made sense. Omniflight Helicopters was a great school and full Bell maintenance facility. Got my Commercial add on license in three weeks.
These no-nonsense straight to the point videos by Dark are immensely addictive!
I wonder if they didn't like what happened when a bullet went through the spinning dome full of highly volatile hydrogen peroxide on top of a flying helicopter.
I mean to be able to hit that thing above means you have to essentially hit the chopper already which makes no difference. Plus it's well protected from ground fire as it is above the chopper and you can always add self sealing tanks instead.
Boom...
Hydrogen Peroxide is NOT highly volatile. It is a lot like water, only heavier and has a boiling point 90 degrees greater than water at 302F. It doesn’t burn or ignite in the presence of an ignition source. It is an oxidizer and at the 90% concentrations they mentioned, reacts with organic material(humans) pretty severely and can cause severe injury. Which was probably why they chose not to adopt the system. It’s use as a fuel involves a catalyst, in this case a platinum or silver mesh screen in the rocket chamber at the rotor tip. When the fuel flows into the chamber the catalytic reaction causes the atoms to separate into h2o(water) and O2(oxygen) It also releases a tremendous amount of heat(like an auto catalytic converter) which flashes the water to steam. The expansion to Steam provides the clean thrust without fire/flame… for other examples of this power source, search Bell rocket belt, Bell rocket pack, Bell Jet Pack, ect…
The Army didn't want to have to move big tanks of that stuff to their operating bases, add all the associated infrastructure, suffer the inevitable accidents, for seven minutes of double-power flight time.
Don't forget as I expounded in my post above. The Turbine engine for helicopters was already coming down the road. The French were experimenting with it and the Bell Huey prototype flew in 1956.
I suspect the reason it was never adopted has something to do with the extremely corrosive qualities of 90% hydrogen peroxide. Not to mention the danger of having a tank such a high-quality oxidizer on board in a crash situation.
Lets not forget on-site storage of 90% peroxide at any military base facility in a conflict area would be a serious challenge too. Storage of this material in such a way that it just maintains it's 90% concentration is a serious challenge. The fact that it's a general hazard in ideal conditions for all concerned doesn't help either.
Hydrogen Peroxide at 90% purity can also be an unstable high explosive. This is the stuff that sunk the Russian submarine _Kursk_ .
Yeah and if one of those fails when other ate running then rotor system would rip apart
Same reason it was problematic in torpedoes.
Or the fact your enemy has a nice big target (the tank) to rain hellfire down into the cockpit. Not super practical but that’s how innovation works.. a shitload of bad ideas til you strike genius.
I had to agree to a NDA but I'm free to tell now. My cousin invented the the design of a transmissionless helo. It used a jet engine and 50% thrust was sent up through the blade and out the tip of the blades and 50% thrust out the back with no need for tail roter because there was no auto rotation. He invented the designs for that prop
Wow that’s great Thanks for sharing
I don't really wanna talk details but my dad helped with stealth technology for Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman.
@@SickBuckNaStY that's awesome
We used to have real American heros that wanted the US to be the best in the world. Duty and Honor were ideals to strive for, not this demoralizing mediocrity and idiocracy we are currently suffering from .
@@buenodye4723 amen
90% hydrogen peroxide is hazardous stuff to work with and the military probably realized guys would end up getting injured. Around the same time they also started using turbine power in place of the heavy inefficient piston engines so that resolved most of the power issues.
There's a reason (a very good reason) almost all navies stopped using HTP torpedoes decades ago. They are scarily unstable weapons. If the HTP started to decompose in the fuel tank of the torpedo you would have less than 30 seconds to jettison the weapon before it explodes
@@killman369547 The Kursk Disaster showcased that one perfectly.
I'm not going to be able to sleep until I know why the hell this wasn't put into production. I'm dumbfounded.
Just Google T-stoff, or watch any documentary about the Me-163 Komet.
It may have been another money grab project. But still it should have been used.
Even now it could come in handy for rescue use or around other terrain which needs the extra boost.
Because the idea was crazy.
@@zoperxplex yeah, so was going to the Moon.
it's the US army, thats why. lots of tech was developed and then just never used.
The ROR would've been nice to have in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Bro.... SERIOUSLY. All the issues we had to overcome.... and they had a solution in the 50's?!?!?!?!?!
I've pumped fuel to an off board bladder to get the bird up, then pumped the fuel back in.... holding my damn breath, lol.
Thank you all for your service. I went to basic in 90 and due to a preexisting knee injury that reappeared 4 weeks into bt and got a “Thank you for trying, keep the ugly glasses and here’s a plane ticket home” speech. My oldest son is 10 years in the Army now. I live 1/4 mile from Ft Bragg and I’m damn proud of all who serve(d). Much love 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Keep in mind that those helicopters had piston engine with far less power than today ones. So it's not that sure if it could really helps nowadays.
@@SebastienChedalBornu true. But do we know that it wouldn't have? Or a variation/advancement.... or even sticking with it in the. Beginning and adapting technology with the growth of helicopter tech.
It just seems like it worked, and they never pushed forward.
@@ryateo1 there was other prototypes of rocket on rotors especially for VTOL airplanes but they abandonnés because of serious vibrations. The problem when you apply too much force on the tip plus the wind turbulences etc. I think this proto worked because it was an additional of what 30% max may be less. Rotors have to bend for the sake of the flight. But if you put all the force on the tip then you pull on the rotor rlmaking it too stiff. So everything goes into the copter
I like the thumbnail it's just "ror"
Interesting project, I thought this video might be about Hiller's Hornet ramjet helicopter. Worked by basically the same principals, just using a pulse jet engine on each rotor tip.
You should do one on the Hiller Hornet Helicopter, saw it at Fantasy of Flight Museum. It uses Ram Jet engines on the blade tips.
I'd never heard of that until now, cheers mate! 🤝 🍻
I remember seeing that in a book when I was about 7 or 8, always thought it looked really cool.
Super nice museum in the bay area has one in perfect conditions.
It had no tail rotor because you are producing the torque on the spinning blades 🤯
I've watched a lot of Aviation documentaries, but I have never heard about this before!
I heard of these years ago. Apparently the system would not scale and the brass wanted VTOL anyway
Perfect being the enemy of the good.
I imagine the volatility of the fuel outweighed any potential benefits.
And the fact a rocket doesn't last very long.
@@v4skunk739 yeah, 7 minutes is can be difficult to find a spot, descend, and land.
The fuel used was just hydrogen peroxide
@@1scorchedphoenix509 it was pure hydrogen peroxide. There's a difference
Sooo... if the fuel had minimal to no volatility, and the rockets lasted longer, it'd be good?
Love how the air forces' solutions tend to be "lets just add rockets to it".
A few years later this jet rotor concept would emerge as prat of an "Everyman's helicopter". the jets were streams of gas which came from a gas generator and was diffused by tubing out to the end of the rotors. One of the nicer things about it was the decreased need for the tail prop to keep straight flight possible, as the torque applied to the axis of flight was much smaller- another was it made for an all weather helicopter because the heated gases kept the rotor blades warm enough to keep ice off. But back then we were thinking flying automobiles for the masses were "right around the corner". I don't know how we got that idea , seeing as how it was a big yellow bus bearing down on us!
Something I admire about the Americans is innovation and experimentation like this . . .
The Fairey Rotodyne used jet powered rotor tips but the noise was too great for a commercial helicopter used in urban areas.
Ha, you beat me to it!
Fairey did not mess around with a small craft either, up to 48 passengers.
Just a shame it was too loud.
3:00 The idea came from a coyote seen on rocket roller skates.
I was assigned to an Air Rescue detachment who flew multiple variants of the Huey H-1 . . UH-1F & HH-1H. The unit Det 7, 37th Aerospace Rescue & Recovery . . . serviced the SAC mission at Minot AFB, North Dakota. 😎🇺🇸
How'd you like the wx?🤔
I read this title twice as “Helicopters with rotor blades” and thought okay, I’ll watch it anyway 😂
Very cool. Amazing what we come up with as humans we need to. Now we need to solve global warming, water shortages, making sure people have enough food and water and education and safety.
About 15 years ago at a RMI reunion in Rockaway; the ROR subject came up. One of the engineers who was on the program said that one of the main issues that canceled ROR was the tests showed a tattletale Circular flame patterns during night testing. The military was not very receptive to this. Even if hydrogen Peroxide used as a mono propellant; i.e steam, the reaction did produced a visible flame. Also; my opinion, fielding this propellant would be a nightmare in terms of logistics, plus the hazards; it is hypergolic to organic materials. As power plant/gas turbines and helicopter designs improved; ROR and the Hiller ramjet program faded away. As well JATO for DoD aircrafts too.
Vince Granato thanks for that first hand bit of information. 👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
the entire airframe is basically an aluminum catalyst, with 300lbs of corrosive fuel on top, needing to be topped off by the average pump jockey in the field.
reason where certainly known, why they didn't go forward with that Buck Rogers stuff..
This channel should be watched for the pretty pictures and not for real research.
Geez, maybe someone realized that filling rotor blades with explosive chemicals is a bad idea after all. 👏👏
T-Stoff what could go wrong?
I had an uncle that was pretty old time, and he hunted with black powder as a matter of habit, as it was cheaper.
Anyway, he got distracted one time and powdered his old rifle twice. Needless to say, it didn't end well for him. That happened long before I was born, (I'm 70) but he still had the scars, and hadn't grown back the finger he lost.
Filling a spinning rotor blade with a known unstable fuel sounds like a planned meeting with St. Peter. (Just as a rule of thumb, I don't mess with things marked "unstable" very often, and the one time I did, I divorced her 3 years later. 🙄 )
👏👏👏
Reminds me of the ad in the back of Popular Mechanics for plans for pulse jet powered rotor blades.
Ah yes, Ed Gluhareff. Turning propane into noise!
It was used on Airwolf :)
🤣🤣🤣
Color me doubtful about this technology being safe in the 1950’s
😆😂
Chocket Ropter
🤣 Good one, Scooby!
I learned something new today... Thank you... The Dark Channels never disappoint
Ever build models of helicopters? I did. Lots of them! My dad taught helicopter flight school at Ft Rucker, Alabama. I wasn’t satisfied with just building models. I had to modify them. I wanted working rotors. Made it so and wanted more! More Power! Putting in a faster motor always resulted in the rotors coming apart! IMHO, stresses of increased centrifugal forces caused the developers similar problems.
If a stray bullet hits a fuel tank full of rocket fuel, you're gonna get a big boom. And hardening the tank to withstand small arms fire is going to make it a lot heavier.
love the subtle shade thrown on centrifugal
Should be considered as a safety feature on all helicopters
double uploads from the dark channels sweet
I just read the title as helicopter with rotor blades. Like isn’t that what defines a helicopter lmao
It's exactly the same only totally different
It says "Helicopter with (Rocket) Blades" Go smoke another joint.
@@philipmartin708 bro how dumb do you think I am? I wouldn’t’ve mentioned it if I hadn’t reread it.
Minecraft: redstone
Games that doesnt imitate real life physics so you need an outside engine to run your helicopter engine:
Another interesting video! Strange how the ror never caught on. I'm sure there was a reason. Possibly due to temp changes and freezing up or possibly even fire or explosion of the peroxide in the event it comes into contact with a catalyst inadvertently during refueling, maintenance or transfer.
In the 1950's Fairey Aviation experimented with a number of rotorcraft which used tip jets instead of driving the rotor from an engine. These being: 1. Jet Gyrodyne (1954), 2. Ultra Light Helicopter (1955) and 3. the legendary Rotodyne (1957). As the rotors were driven from their tips, no torque reaction was produced, which did away with the need for a tail rotor.
Enter…the Fairey Rotodyne (tipjets)
The Wiley E Coyote technology is simply amazing 🤣
The reason this was not used is crystal clear to a chemist: 95-98% H2O2 is hard to handle, shock sensitive, and prone to explode (worse than nitroglycerin). It will cause any organic matter that comes into contact with it to spontaneously burst into flames. Contact with human skin = no more human. It is expensive and difficult to produce. It is typically produced on-site because it cannot be readily transported, especially in hot humid environments. It is great in a laboratory test, but it could never be made user friendly (idiot proof) for widescale use. I will not even get into the corrosion issues.
When we fly helicopters we try and land them much like a fixed wing aircraft on a runway.
This approach is the most efficient approach.
Now if a helicopter is operating in high altitude, carrying a large cargo and forced to do a vertical landing.
This would be very taxing for the helicopter, particularly when it's using a piston engine.
I'm still hoping to see a real life version of Airwolf. I know it was a work of fiction, but it would be fantastic if something similar were developed by the military.
It was probably discontinued due to bell helicopters using the tech to develop the bell rocket belt in the mid 50s to early 60s. The concept of an airborne battalion of soldiers over an auxiliary backup power supply for helicopters would have been enticing to the army but due to the less than stellar endurance of the rocket belt the project was most likely abandoned.
Still a great concept. Wish i had a switch on my heli that would add power when i need it.
I am a Helicopter Pilot. I designed a helicopter that was powered by standard turbine engines, but their sole purpose was to power a fan that sucked in air and under high pressure delivered it the rotor tips. I also surmised it would help with retreating blade stall since HP air was being blown over the retreating blade. With very little torque, the tail rotor would be extremely small or replaced with a NOTAR system. Would it ever fly? Probably not, but it was fun to contemplate.
The reason the project was dropped isn't unknown. It just isn't particularly sexy. Yes the jet tipped rotors worked well for what they were designed for. But their use was limited by fuel, control, maintenance and materials handling. Do you want to know what worked even better to solve the problem than adding secondary rockets to helicopter rotors? The GE T58 Turboshaft Engine. Which gave the helicopter the desired performance across it's entire operational range, and for the full flight time of the mission. The jet rotors were only really needed for piston powered helicopters. But the end of those was already on the horizon with the introduction of the gas turbines.
When I was in flight school, they had a little museum there with a little helicopter with ram jets on the ends of the blades.
Should do a video on the Fairey Rotodyne.
With all due respect to US helicopter designers this system (in a few different forms) had been tried/used by other nations at the same time.
Need more power? Just add a few rockets to it. Most American thing I've heard and seen today. 👍🇺🇸
Cool but I’m disappointed that there wasn’t fire streaking from the rotors.
The thumbnail image for this video is NOT and ROR system. Instead, it was a single passenger self-rescue helicopter for downed aviators with ramjets on the blade tips. It would be better described as a rotary flamethrower. It was started by cranking a handle on the side, which is probably what the person in the photo is doing.
I ran the numbers- it's only 74 hp. At the maximum 245 rpm rotor speed, the rotor are going 20,400 feet per minute. 30 lbf * 4 motors is 120 lbf. That's 2,446,374 pound force feet per minute. A hp is 33,000 pound force feet per minute, so this makes 74 hp
Man i love this channel,it's probably my favourite,the production quality is top notch!....keep the video's and new channels coming,the original narrator really makes all the difference!...
This was the beginning of the " let's spend millions of dollars on a project & never use it " philosophy in the military.
Man, what I would give to see that at night in person...
I really don't understand why anyone thinks that a video like this deserves any 👎
What did they expect?
Another great video! Pretty sure ROR died because gas turbine tech was coming into its own. At the same time they were experimenting with ROR Sikorsky had a flying example of a jet turbine powered helicopter
More than the air force, the U.S. army went big on helicopters. Especially after the 1949 Key West agreement that restricted its fixed-wing aviation. I wonder if the ROR was not adopted because everyone saw the turbine engines coming down the road. The first Huey prototype flew in 1956.
Read "Chickhawk" Great book on Vietnam war helicopter pilots experiences.
Always thought that would make an amazing movie too
retitle to: Something new I learned to about the U.S. military. thank you.
I instantly thought of Red Skull running away from Captain America
So, they made a version of NOS for a helicopter, nice :D
Go check out the Hiller helicopter with the turbines on each end of the rotor blade. No other engine required! Had a model of it back in the early '50s and I got to see it fly as Hiller was about two miles from our house.
Adding steam and oxygen into the vacuum at the end of the rotor blade could significantly reduce rotor noise, in addition to supplying more thrust.
I suspect the prospect of having an easy to spot BOMB right on the top of the helicopter might have been an issue.
I also suspect that corrosion was the reason they didn't get deployed... any leak or spill on the critical components of the helicopter would result in a hard to spot danger.
There were other ROR helicopter designs .
Even JOR helicopters .
The US military researched the hell out of the "On rotor" power plant helicopter. Jet engines on rotor . Forgot the problems they had but they tried it .
They should have a small rocket in the tail to stop the helicopter from spinning in case the tail rotor fails. I've seen video of lots of helicopter crashes because the tail rotor failed. It would only need to work for a minute until the helicopter can hopefully land. Sensors could adjust the thrust to keep the helicopter straight depending on the force of the main rotor. You are welcome, you can send me the royalty checks via paypal.
That's why they developed NOTAR, or 'NO-TA-Rotor'. If you don't have a spinning tail rotor, it can't get damaged..
@@cassandrafoxx4171 I don't get it, what if the fan in the tail quits working? Wouldn't it have the same effect as a tail rotor breaking? I'll have to look more into it.
Also I've wondered, why don't they just have two main rotors, one far enough above the other, each going in the opposite direction. Kind of like they did some propellers during WWII before everyone started using jets.
@@BrettonFerguson A lot of Russian helicopters are like that, like the Kamov Ka-50 Havoc. The Americans tried it, making a very fast, augmented-jet helicopter, The Sikorsky S-69 (XH-59A) ABC, or Advancing Blade Concept.
@@cassandrafoxx4171 Cool. Thanks. I'll look into them.
I wonder if they were at all drippy after landing and whether it was dangerous to approach if there were leaks and I bet it was hard to control leaks with all the stress on those connections. Plus it looks like that they just smacked those apparatus is onto the ends of the blades and I wonder if they didn't just fling right back off once in awhile. And if even one were to be lost I wonder if it ruins the whole setup.
Why is this not a part of modern aviation in general?? It almost seems like it worked too well and the government basically swept it under the rug
Imagine the steel nerves from the CBI theater pioneering chopper pilots during WW2.
With modern materials they could revisit this for special operations use....
Looks like something you've made straight out of Gmod
imagine if modern helicopters use this system
So much innovation came from wars.....sort of horrible way to advance but necessity is the mother of invention.
Carrying a 300 lb bomb on top of your helicopter would be a firm no.
Please consider slowing the narration a little.
The actual reason to why these devices were never implimented into aircraft was due to the significant damage it did to the blades, exposed parts and its structure after its use, the safe storage and re filling of the helos after it had been used, and the high risk of the propellant entering into the cockpit onto the pilots after it being shot by a projectile.
Several eager Pilots from the USAF chose to be test Pilots for this unit...until they were later made aware and saw what the propellant did to aluminium metals and human skin...the remaining others (who believed they could 'tough it out' as women were using it heaps in their hair) left testing 'pronto' once they were shown how in its actual concentrated (H202) form it corroded 3 inch thick solid Stainless Steel components inside cooling systems of Nuclear reactors 😁
Hydrogen peroxide at high concentration is a powerful oxidant. Also if there is an organic material or some reactant metal contamination in the tank or in the rocket motor feed lines the peroxide will rapidly decompose and an explosion will occur. Hydrogen peroxide cannot be placed inside the tank for long periods of time because it will slowly decompose generating an increasing oxygen atmosphere inside the tank. Filling the tank is a very risky operation, if something goes wrong certainly will result in a fire or explosion.
Even though it said "rocket" I honestly thought this would be about the "Little Henry" ramjet helicopter all that followed it.
It's sounds like a good idea, but in my opinion only as a method increase the speed that the rotors start up, getting the machine off the ground faster and in to it missions, but in flight, I'd say no, because I would think that past a particular speed, the rotors would become inefficient and ineffective, because of the massive airflow problem due to the large gaps in air density where every other blade would fly through empty space caused by the blade preceding it, and turbulence, unless the rotors were designed to perfection, new shapes like modern Augusta Westland aircraft, and you've Also got the drag or lag of the receding rotor,(the one at 90⁰s angle to port, or at 9-O-Clock as apposed 12-o-clock position, which causes that particular rotor blade to slow down significantly compared to its opposite number, so 4 blades minimum them, then again two bladed like the Huey would surely have a large enough gap between each Rotary wing to stop the dead Air affect.
Pretty sure this was sold as a power booster for race cars in the 1960s. Pretty sure I read about in popular mechanics.
I worked at a printing factory once and we'd use concentrated HP to clean the floors and also our hands sometimes. Worked great.
Germans were doing it in 1943. British and French were also doing it in the 50s.
This is the most American thing I have ever seen
What would happen if the chopper gets shot at? Sounds like a convenient bomb for the enemy to take advantage of.
Yhea that sounds really safe and sounds like it wouldn't snap the propellers or be really unstable
225 lbs of oxidizer on your rotors just waiting for a bullet isn't a mystery in its absence.
Somebody in the Military Industrial Complex knows why this tech was shelved and it's a shame that reason isn't reported here. It might be some simple technical reason, as, for example, the rockets on the helicopters were intolerably loud. That would be my first guess.
Help I'm 39 and never been drunk before. I just swallowed a whole bottle of jagermiester now im watching these videos. I can't get enough. They have little meaning in my life but I love them
Haha tomorrow is gonna suck make sure you drink a lot of water before bed and tomorrow.
Jagermiester was prob not the best to start off with...🥴🥴...good luck. And yes lots of water, maybe Gatorade/Powerade or better yet Pedialyte. Get the electrolytes up before the dehydration sets in.
haha keep watching these videos! It will help you concentrate
Losing your virginity too? 🤔
@@gus473 no that was taken care of years ago
Spill jet fuel, no problem, wash your clothes. Spill 90% h2o2, no more problems and no more clothes. I think having any appreciable amount of high test hydrogen peroxide on board would make even minor crashes virtually un-survivable. Transport and refueling of said h2o2 on the battlefield would be a logistics nightmare as it couldn't safely be stowed near munitions or soldiers
Pretty sure RMI released a film, not a video. 16mm was in wide use for industrial, promotional, and educational content back then.
Video wasn't really a medium in wide use outside of TV stations until the 70s.
I think the Army just decided to build better helicopters instead. Like turbocharging an engine instead of using nitrous. Then you can run that nice extra power all day long.
Great, but that was shot on film, not video. Sure, what we are watching is a film to video transfer, but they would have viewed the film from a film projector onto a white screen.
They stole my idea. Damn this military industrial complex!
*bites back of fist*
As with anything military you have to accept that without war little to no progress in developing civil derivatives of things like aircraft and helicopters won’t happen, or at least not as quickly as is during conflict, even now it’s the same equation war=progress, we might not like it but it is the truth.
It reminds me of legendary Panjandrum...
Did the SADF not utilize such a system with great success in the 80’s???