I just recalled something I heard at a company where I worked around 1999. A sales guy said something about wireless, and one of the tech guys said something like "sales people want wireless, because it impresses people. Tech guys want a wired connection, because they know they can trust a wire". Which is something I've discovered way too many times since then: if it's possible to connect something with a wire, that option is nearly always preferable to the wireless one. Seems Shimano ran into that problem too, and failed to make wireless as good as wired. 🙂
With Shimano, you get the option. There is no real benefit to wireless over wires (other than marketing) except that it's easier to install. And as Shane alluded to, with the wired shifters, you get better battery life.
@@coryrood No they don´t behavior is same as Di2 and even worse battery life... :-( Only thing they can update firmware wireless (because all device has bluetooth build in and and can connect to a mobile app)
@@jakubklouda2474 My point was that SRAM has figured out the fully wireless aspect. As far as battery life, I don't think SRAM was trying to equal DI2 battery life. SRAM's battery design has its own pro's and cons vs Shimano. Battery life with either system(I have multiple of both, although the older 11sp DI2) has never been a limiter for me with either one.
@@coryrood it is not about managing it technically, but main point here are patents which is blocking both crosswide. I don’t have 12sp Di2, but 11s and AXS…
Great review. One thing you can get around is if you just buy a longer wire for doing the shifter upgrades then you can pull you seat post out, connect the wire to the third port on the battery and to one shifter at a time, connect the app and upgrade the STI. Then repeat for the other STI and there is no need to purchase the more expensive laptop dongle. This is how I do it at our bike shop. Thanks for the great videos. Tom
my two cents: as a builder of my Winspace T1500, Ultegra 12V Di2 group is the perfect choice, no big issues about installation, less cables, less weight, more simple . PROS: absolutely brilliant shifting, no noises, no problems, really functional. Great options like the one I prefere: if you hold on the button you can shift all the cogs in one touch, up and down. Rapid charge on the RD: 75 minutes for full charge. Levers are very ergonomic and comfortable, brakes are top. CONS: Battery life is short. I find the shift buttons on the levers too much hard to push, they want to simulate a phisical resistence but for me... is too much. E Tube app very ridicolous... Was a miracle to pair levers and mechs, every time the app was crashing. Ciao dall'Italia - cheers from Italy
No cables from the shifters is a big plus for me. Not giving myself a headache with fully integrated cables and still only having one cable through the frame is nice.
I had a bike built up with this in Oct, Time carbon frame and Dura Ace c50 wheels. First electronic groupset for me so most of the issues you mention don’t apply - the battery life doesn’t bother me because I didn’t have a precedent already set, same with the wake up clicks. I love it, it works great. I also noticed the longer reach (coming from 105 mechanical) and ideally need to get a shorter stem. Your previous videos helped me to choose Ultegra Di2 so thanks 👍😁
Agree 100% on the E-tube connection time - unbelievable in 2023... Wake up clicks not an issue at all imho. My battery life is great. Lever updates is a pain. In the Philippines its not possible to update the levers at all since no one has the module. Oh - and I just love my Di2.
I'm using the 9250 rim brake levers so I had to setup the system as wired only. As a wired system the battery life is great, just like on the 9150. Going from 11-speed Di2 to 12-speed Di2 I could appreciate the faster and more consistent shifting on the 12-speed Di2. It's quite amazing that every shift on the rear sounds and feels exactly the same, regardless of which gear you're shifting into. I still have another bike with 11-speed Di2. Every time I ride that bike it reminds me just how good the 12-speed Di2 is. Lastly, I'm running a P2M gravel specific PM with 48/31 GRX chainrings. Front shifting is great. I'm already thinking about upgrading my gravel bike with the 12-speed Di2 and not wait for the 12-speed GRX group. I never turn on the RD clutch anyways.
Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I will also buy the 12sp rimbrake version in a few weeks and I can't wait. Hopefully there are more buyers like us and shimano won't kill off future rimbrake groupsets, especially the direct mount caliper!
The battery life downgrade was a shock to me. I've just built up a 12sp rim brake bike which HAS to be fully wired. Battery life is approx 50⁒ greater which isn't to be sniffed at. Battery level field on my Garmin is now a permanent fixture.
I have everything I need for my split groupset: Ultegra 12 speed with Dura Ace chainrings and brakes... minus the shifters. Thanks for your analysis of those, didn't know about sleep mode. Interesting findings for wired-in configuration. Nice to know that's possible. I'm glad you appreciated the extra brake clearance, I was wondering, especially since I went all-in. A month or two is pretty good for battery life I guess. Maybe a bit longer if it's wired-in too, eh? Firmware update on the levers saving me a $200 cable certainly sounds nice. Plus, charging is all on the rear derailleur with no removing the hood covers to replace coin batteries. I wish they would have put the charger on the front derailleur not the back, Mapdec Cycle Works mentioned this too. My only real concern is the crank separation issue. The crank shape is different and they have added a plastic plug seal into the spindle. I hope this has corrected the design flaw, I do like the more chiseled and symmetrical shape. Older chainring bolts work for it as well, along with the older "slim version" crank bolt. Peak Torque mentioned the shifter handlebar clamp rings and how they dig into the bars, as all shifters with those cheap clamp rings do. I wondered if the clamp rings are a generic or specific part, because I though of beveling the edges of them with a dremel / by hand, but want spares in case it ends up causing slipping shifters. Thanks Shane, I can't wait to get the bike built for spring and do my own testing.
Brilliant review. Can confirm everything (having two R8170 groupsets and one R8070 groupset in use). On my older R8170, tooth 21 was ticking. Overall, I love the R8170 groupset.
I have to say I've never felt less compelled to change to 12spd from 11 spd as previous upgrades. I'm still happy with my hybrid group 9000 di2 with aftermarket carbon cranks and 34t cassette. I even swapped dura ace 9170 shifters to GRX ,815 just because I like the feel of the levers. I might upgrade at so E point to 12spd but prices will see me wear what I've got out.
Congratulations on the 3 videos. It clarified a lot about the new Shimano ultegra Di2 version. Today I bought 2 complete kits to transform or update my two road bikes (one is Shimano 105 11 speed and the other is Shimano Ultegra 11 speed) with manual transmission. The kits arrived from Europe just this end of the month and I am eager to use your videos to make the update. It seems that the video is from more than 1 year ago, so I'm thinking that all this time, the negative observations that you show in the video maybe Shimano has improved them (I don't know about this). You mention that there are several forums about Shimano Ultegra Di2 the new version. Can you please tell me what they are, because I know I will have problems and will need help to fully achieve the upgrade. Thank you so much
Hello. Excellent review. I also fond that the chain squeaks immediately when contaminated, I live in dubai and this a challenge as compared to the old one. The gear change is sometimes laggy. And most importantly, we can not download the app in this region. My mechanic has it though and have to go there every time I need an update or a small change. This is unacceptable for an electronic set that is fully dependent on an app
Pretty sure the 12sp rear derailleurs are good up to 36t as that cassette size is coming on the 105 spec level. The 105 system will use the existing derailleur, I.e. same cage length derailleur as 12sp ultegra and DA. Sure Terry can confirm 👍
@@BetterShifting generally true, i agree. not 100% sure until tested though. Man I hope GRX isn’t too far away. And I hope there’s an 11-42 (or 11-44) HG cassette on its way
Coming from Ultegra 1spd mechanical to 12spd I noticed the shifting speed straight away and the ease of setting up the system was nice but the app takes way too long to connect when you just want to quickly tweak something or check battery status as I'm running Kar002 and can't see my battery life and the life of the Di2 isn't great, every 4-6 weeks charge for me. TBH I'd be just as happy running my 11spd Ultegra mechanical groupset if I didn't like only having 2 brake cables showing on my bike. But I'm seriously thinking of just going back to mechanical, it just worked, I never had to adjust the barrel or touch anything, once set up it was flawless for 6-7,000km. I "upgraded" to 12spd because I got a very good deal on the groupset.
The battery life is long enough not to worry me. I also click the shifters to make sure Di2 connects to my Wahoo before I set off. The only downside for me to wireless is the need to connect the shifters to the battery to update the firmware. Fortunately, there’s only been one shifter update in the 11 months since I upgraded (from 105 R7020).
Thanks for this thorough review!! I have been considering switching to Di2 12 speed. But I think I will stick with my 5800 system. I recently did a deep cleaning of the shifters, changed to Jagwire cables, and shifting performance is better than ever. Not sure if the latest tech and associated $$$ is really needed.
With extra cables required comes as you mentioned extra cost. Need to take this into account when purchasing as shimano is usually cheaper to start with.
Thanks for yet another awesome review. As I am contemplating getting a Rotor ALDHU crankset with a SIGEYI AXO power meter for my Shimano Ultegra 8170 groupset, I just need to confirm that I understood you correctly... Using the 8170 chainrings with the Rotor crankset will work fine with no downsides? No problem regarding the small difference in offset or smaller chainring spacing?
I was always an Ultegra mechanical user on my three previous bikes but, on my newest bike, I’m so glad I decided to go with SRAM ETap 12-speed. Been faultless
@@gplama Have had mechanical GRX and Ultegra so far. Wanted to upgrade the Ultegra to 12speed Di2 but now I'm unsure. Should I consider Sram eTap? How does the battery life compare between Di2 and eTap? What is more comfy to charge at home and on tour?
@@rainbowlable Entirely your call what to consider/buy/etc. RE: Charging. It depends how much you're shifting. From memory (without actually testing) AXS lasts me about the same as the new Di2, although I'm only using an AXS 1x system. It's easier to carry a spare AXS battery.
Great video Shane, thanks. I've had the 12 speed groupset on a Cervelo Caledonia for about 10 months and have generally been pleased with it. However, I had an issue last year where the battery was not holding its charge and dropping to zero % from a full charge over a couple of days - even without any rides.This seemed to coincide after a particularly wet ride although I can't be certain. I checked all the firmware and connections, and everything seemed OK (apart from being unable to do the shifter update as I don't have the cable) but it kept happening, I've now had the bike in the house (it usually lives in the garage) since mid December on the turbo and the issue seems to have resolved itself - perhaps everything has dried out? Be interesting to see if anyone else experiences this issue with the groupset or if there any suggestions what the issue actually was.
I want a climbing button module that's small and compact! I love the old climbing switch but it's hideously huge. I'm also not going to use the separate switches; I want less zip ties, not more!
Years from now when the app will no longer work and the proprietary battery will no longer be produced. Mechanical groupsets will still be working just fine.
Your TCR with the 808s looks absolutely mint - I've seen a load of your videos with a variety of wheels, maybe a video on your thoughts on those that you have used, pros and cons etc. would be good as really value your opinion! On the video content; are the levers backward compatible (if wired)? For example, can I get the ergonomic benefits on my current ultegra Di2 set-up? Thanks
How long until we get 12 speed GRX di2 do you think? I’m perfectly happy with the 11 speed on my gravel bike, but surely shimano are working on it. With regards to levers, the ergonomics of the grx di2 levers is much better than the road ones IMO. Great, honest video.
Ah I've noticed the battery drained a little fast at first but seems okay at the moment. Unfortunately havent ridden enough to really notice. The click to wake is not an issue for me. Just click a couple times before clipping in. BS that we need a cable to update the shifters but what is there to update anyway? Everything works out of the box
No mention of the new USB cable connecting directly to the RD, eliminating the need for a USB charger, and elimination of the A junction? Also, did you not notice the shifting (particularly in front) being must faster and crisper? I agree with the statement that the groupset isn't going to make you a faster rider (over the 11sp), but overall, the experience is much better from a builders standpoint, and marginally better from the user standpoint.
It's still a proprietary USB cable connection, so in that respect it's not really a plus. Elimination of components covered in Part II. No gear change speed notice. It's snappy, as was the previous generations. Maybe others will notice it more. I didn't.
@@gplama I thought one of the other reviewers had stated an increase in shifting speed. I'll see if I can find it. Edit: looking at some of the articles from the 8100 launch, I'm seeing reference to Shimano claiming 45% faster front shifting and 58% faster rear shifting. It seemed very noticeable to me. (?)
The wheels mfg bb86 bb you are using. I fitted same to my propel but had noticed a slight cream from the bb. When I removed I noticed it had worn away some of the bb. Had only used grease when installing but thinking back the fit was very slack and I could basically push the bb in. Think I'll give it a second chance with PT retaining compound but perhaps something to look out for on your two TCRs Shane.
The lever updates are annoying to be honest. I'm going to see if my mechanic can do that for me next time I go in for a servicing. The click wake function is not a big deal for me.
I have a new bike coming in two weeks and this makes me wonder if it makes sense to have the shop set it up fully wired. Is it just firmware updating that is not possible or is there other e-tube app functionality I would be missing out on? Great video!
Was there an update on the new sprint shifters/installation of them etc that you were planning to put on this upgrade? Would love to see the outcome and information of them with the new Shimano 12spd Di2.
Shimano if you’re reading… give us the option to lock out the the bottom cogs while in the small chainring. My chainstay is damaged from accidentally shifting into the small/small while hypoxic mid effort 😢 Stupid that the 12sp dura ace allows you to lock out the bottom cogs while in the small front ring, but the ultegra doesn’t
Question on shifters reach. How do they compare in length to the mechanical 800 Ultegra? Are they bigger or smaller? Looking to upgrade but I want to make sure is not going to be a big change in terms of reach...
I wonder if the wake up click will create an issue for a pro cyclist who sits in the peloton for 45 minutes and then tries to shift to do a surprise attack but the click doesn't shift.
That's a LONG time not to change gears, especially in a bunch where the speed will change a lot. I suspect if it ever was a problem they'd just wire the levers.
Thanks Shane! Do you know why there's seemingly less cassette options with the 12 speed groupset. The only two options I see from Shimano are the 11-30 and 11-34. In previous generations, there were 12-25 or 11-23 cassettes which featured smaller steps between gears. Personally, I live near a river, and while there are climbs, its mostly flat so the 30/34 gear isn't really needed but having the smaller steps between gears is nice.
I still don't understand all the hype about wireless shifting, It doesn't add anything extra as a user... first thing I did when I get my new bike with 12s Shimano was to wire it. And i'm thinking on moving my AXS gravel to GRX mainly because of that. I also prefer Shimano brakes but that's a different topic. Battery life goes back to it old self, and that makes sense as it will disable the gyros on the derailleurs for wake up.
On Dura-Ace there is Gear Position Control and you cannot go small x small. However, depending on the chain rings and cassette settings, you may be able to disable this in E-Tube Cyclist. It’ll be under the synchro settings, and then “various settings” or something :)
regarding the firmware update for the STIs: you could just pull the seatpost out and use a long cable or if you do not want to remove the seatpost, unplug the front derailleur and use a SD300 connector and a long cable to the STI.
@@gplamadisappointed that you did not mention that option on the video and just made it sound like you needed to buy the SM-PCE02, which is not the case.
Weird question, can those white plastic tabs under the brake lever be re-used to stop the lever from being squeezed (e.g. when bike is on the workstand stand, with wheel out or perhaps on a front-wheel-off indoor trainer)
Thanks for your warp up. Best overall comment @ ruclips.net/video/zNKp-xDNQOM/видео.html as you say better to lose some kilos! In essence stick with 11 speed Di2 until your next big bike upgrade. Re wireless upgrades - for those in the network world - also wires are needed for many router, WAps and switch upgrades - maybe Shimano took their inspiration from networks?
I just installed the 12 speed dura ace groupset and mine won't let me shift to the two smallest gears when in the small chain ring. I didn't see anywhere in the app to customize that. How are you able to shift to the small -small combo?
Thanks for posting this. Have a question. I have a Trek Speed concept 11 speed rim brake. What components would I need if possible to upgrade to 12 speed? Target is a 54x40 / 11x34 . Currently on a Dura Ace 53x39/11x30
Hey Shane, random question, are you still running 38cm bars? Running 42cm on the cervelo, run 40cm on the trainer but not sure of whether there is a 'right' way to assess a correct size.
So I also have Ultegra 8070 Di2 on my Supersix. Worth upgrading to the 12 speed or not? My main reasons are for the Hyperglide+, faster front shifting and servowave braking. Are these noticeable improvements from the 11 speed or should I save my money?
If you’re not having any issues with the 8070 like disc rub, save your money. Get some good wheels or a new bar/stem combo. (But if you’re all maxed out with upgrades, by all means get the 8170)
@@gplama No issues with brake rub and I’ve already got carbon wheels and a nice cockpit so I’m fully upgraded! How much would you say the braking and shifting has improved? I guess I’m wondering if the step from 11 to 12 speed Di2 is actually much of a performance improvement and it seems it isn’t that much.
I'm on the previous 11sp Ultegra Shane, and I'm forever pulling my hair out trying to get my brakes to work without annoying rub. Do you think it's a worthy upgrade for me? Will the additional pad clearance of the new version save me some frustration?
Nice detail as always. However was really hoping for some opinion on the brakes which are not just changed with the 10% gap. They also have a different approach to bleeding and the initial braking response is designed to be more immediate (less throw on the lever). Those things are definitely worth covering as on paper, they sound like a worthwhile upgrade alone. As for the required wake-up clicks. Probably the biggest first world problem in history 😊
so can i use the 12 speed di2 on an 11 speed cassette? My LBS said yes but that shifting wouldn't be great. follow on question, what NEEDS to be upgraded if going from 11speed di2 to 12 speed. cheers!
Quick question, I'm only interested in the extra 10% rotor clearance. Do you know if we could install the new calipers with R8070 STI levers? Read something about new technology that makes in incomplable. Wonder how much of that is just to get you to upgrade fully🧐
This was asked about a lot when the group was first announced. iirc (and I could be wrong here) the only combination that works is new levers with old callipers due to a larger stroke volume in the new levers. Google should pull up previous discussions on this.
@@gplama I would say I'm not quite getting the 10% extra clearance, but it's definitely made a difference and I'm not getting the rubbing that I did with the older calipers. I've done a friend's bike aswell with no issues. ( note dura ace system )
shimano was lazy they should have upgraded the battery capacity. the li-on chemistry has improved 2-3x in the last 10 years but shimano still uses the same battery.
Hi Shane, as a mechanical groupset user, would you recommend straightaway jumping to this r8100 or would the older r8050 11S would do, considering there may no longer be spare parts or software support in the future for r8050?
8050 is more than fine. I have a 2nd road bike with the 9150 and it's still brilliant. I did need to upgrade the battery and add the wireless module though (two things not required on 8100).
Ya, my rotary dial telephone works just fine. I don’t understand all the fuss about these new ‘cellular’ thing-a-ma-bobs. And while we’re at it, why can’t I find anyone locally to develop my 35 mm film rolls? It’s a damn conspiracy to get us to spend our money on frivolous, useless junk. Get off my lawn, sonny.
@@DanTuber well that depends. Where I live and ride the roads are either up or down - there’s barely anything flat. Gradients ranging from 5-12%. Nothing sustained, nothing longer than a few hundred meters before you switch from up to down and then back again. In circumstances like that, if you have a FD you need it to be repeatable, dependable and effortless. It’s not like an occasional shift to enter a sustained “climbing mode” which I agree *may* be OK to live with under certain circumstances. With mechanical also comes the very cumbersome and annoying compensation shifts at the rear, which on Shimano/SRAM are one at a time. With Campy you can dump gears in one movement so that’s lovely - but Campy front shifting also sucks.
The GO TO when you run out of ideas is to add another cog which you dont really need,some will buy into it as usual,the industry hit the wall with bikes ,carbon hit its limit so all they do is change tube shapes & make u believe 5% this & that matters same with components hit the wall they are electronic & went from wired to wireless,basically there wont be anything new just sales BS,so just pich what u like & dont get caught up with sales BS
I just recalled something I heard at a company where I worked around 1999. A sales guy said something about wireless, and one of the tech guys said something like "sales people want wireless, because it impresses people. Tech guys want a wired connection, because they know they can trust a wire". Which is something I've discovered way too many times since then: if it's possible to connect something with a wire, that option is nearly always preferable to the wireless one. Seems Shimano ran into that problem too, and failed to make wireless as good as wired. 🙂
SRAM seems to have figured it out🤷♂
With Shimano, you get the option. There is no real benefit to wireless over wires (other than marketing) except that it's easier to install. And as Shane alluded to, with the wired shifters, you get better battery life.
@@coryrood No they don´t behavior is same as Di2 and even worse battery life... :-( Only thing they can update firmware wireless (because all device has bluetooth build in and and can connect to a mobile app)
@@jakubklouda2474 My point was that SRAM has figured out the fully wireless aspect. As far as battery life, I don't think SRAM was trying to equal DI2 battery life. SRAM's battery design has its own pro's and cons vs Shimano. Battery life with either system(I have multiple of both, although the older 11sp DI2) has never been a limiter for me with either one.
@@coryrood it is not about managing it technically, but main point here are patents which is blocking both crosswide. I don’t have 12sp Di2, but 11s and AXS…
Great review. One thing you can get around is if you just buy a longer wire for doing the shifter upgrades then you can pull you seat post out, connect the wire to the third port on the battery and to one shifter at a time, connect the app and upgrade the STI. Then repeat for the other STI and there is no need to purchase the more expensive laptop dongle. This is how I do it at our bike shop. Thanks for the great videos. Tom
Thanks for heads up on 12 speed Di2. You raised some excellent points which convinced me to stick with my Ultegra 8070 Di2 so I’ll save some $. Cheers
my two cents: as a builder of my Winspace T1500, Ultegra 12V Di2 group is the perfect choice, no big issues about installation, less cables, less weight, more simple . PROS: absolutely brilliant shifting, no noises, no problems, really functional. Great options like the one I prefere: if you hold on the button you can shift all the cogs in one touch, up and down. Rapid charge on the RD: 75 minutes for full charge. Levers are very ergonomic and comfortable, brakes are top. CONS: Battery life is short. I find the shift buttons on the levers too much hard to push, they want to simulate a phisical resistence but for me... is too much. E Tube app very ridicolous... Was a miracle to pair levers and mechs, every time the app was crashing. Ciao dall'Italia - cheers from Italy
No cables from the shifters is a big plus for me. Not giving myself a headache with fully integrated cables and still only having one cable through the frame is nice.
I had a bike built up with this in Oct, Time carbon frame and Dura Ace c50 wheels. First electronic groupset for me so most of the issues you mention don’t apply - the battery life doesn’t bother me because I didn’t have a precedent already set, same with the wake up clicks. I love it, it works great. I also noticed the longer reach (coming from 105 mechanical) and ideally need to get a shorter stem. Your previous videos helped me to choose Ultegra Di2 so thanks 👍😁
You’re definitely my go to guy on all things Di2, Garmin edge, Wahoo kicker 🤔Actually all bike related stuff ✊🏾👊🏾👏🏾Keep up the great work bruv 👍🏾
Honest review with no marketing nonsense. 🤟
6:50 i was surprised with wake-up clicks too. Now i'm giving few clicks to hood buttons while leaving home and wahoo is powering on.
Agree 100% on the E-tube connection time - unbelievable in 2023... Wake up clicks not an issue at all imho. My battery life is great. Lever updates is a pain. In the Philippines its not possible to update the levers at all since no one has the module. Oh - and I just love my Di2.
You actually can go small/small on the old di2. Within e-tube app you needed to set the gearing up as 53/39 and 11-25 cassette and it would let you.
I'm using the 9250 rim brake levers so I had to setup the system as wired only. As a wired system the battery life is great, just like on the 9150. Going from 11-speed Di2 to 12-speed Di2 I could appreciate the faster and more consistent shifting on the 12-speed Di2. It's quite amazing that every shift on the rear sounds and feels exactly the same, regardless of which gear you're shifting into. I still have another bike with 11-speed Di2. Every time I ride that bike it reminds me just how good the 12-speed Di2 is. Lastly, I'm running a P2M gravel specific PM with 48/31 GRX chainrings. Front shifting is great. I'm already thinking about upgrading my gravel bike with the 12-speed Di2 and not wait for the 12-speed GRX group. I never turn on the RD clutch anyways.
Wait for the 13 speed groupset
Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I will also buy the 12sp rimbrake version in a few weeks and I can't wait. Hopefully there are more buyers like us and shimano won't kill off future rimbrake groupsets, especially the direct mount caliper!
@@docmccoy9813 which groupset?
@@thedownunderverse Rotor has a 1x13 groupset
@@docmccoy9813 so does Campy… but I want 1x13 electronic
Really good review. I was expecting its be a game changer. I’ll wait now as I love the Di2 11g
The battery life downgrade was a shock to me. I've just built up a 12sp rim brake bike which HAS to be fully wired. Battery life is approx 50⁒ greater which isn't to be sniffed at. Battery level field on my Garmin is now a permanent fixture.
if using it wired the battery life will be +/- the same.
Always great videos, thanks for the info, will hardwire my new groupset
I have everything I need for my split groupset: Ultegra 12 speed with Dura Ace chainrings and brakes... minus the shifters. Thanks for your analysis of those, didn't know about sleep mode. Interesting findings for wired-in configuration. Nice to know that's possible.
I'm glad you appreciated the extra brake clearance, I was wondering, especially since I went all-in.
A month or two is pretty good for battery life I guess. Maybe a bit longer if it's wired-in too, eh? Firmware update on the levers saving me a $200 cable certainly sounds nice. Plus, charging is all on the rear derailleur with no removing the hood covers to replace coin batteries. I wish they would have put the charger on the front derailleur not the back, Mapdec Cycle Works mentioned this too.
My only real concern is the crank separation issue. The crank shape is different and they have added a plastic plug seal into the spindle. I hope this has corrected the design flaw, I do like the more chiseled and symmetrical shape. Older chainring bolts work for it as well, along with the older "slim version" crank bolt.
Peak Torque mentioned the shifter handlebar clamp rings and how they dig into the bars, as all shifters with those cheap clamp rings do. I wondered if the clamp rings are a generic or specific part, because I though of beveling the edges of them with a dremel / by hand, but want spares in case it ends up causing slipping shifters.
Thanks Shane, I can't wait to get the bike built for spring and do my own testing.
Brilliant review. Can confirm everything (having two R8170 groupsets and one R8070 groupset in use). On my older R8170, tooth 21 was ticking. Overall, I love the R8170 groupset.
Great video, and a perfect summary. Keep up a good work!!!
I have to say I've never felt less compelled to change to 12spd from 11 spd as previous upgrades. I'm still happy with my hybrid group 9000 di2 with aftermarket carbon cranks and 34t cassette. I even swapped dura ace 9170 shifters to GRX ,815 just because I like the feel of the levers. I might upgrade at so E point to 12spd but prices will see me wear what I've got out.
Congratulations on the 3 videos. It clarified a lot about the new Shimano ultegra Di2 version. Today I bought 2 complete kits to transform or update my two road bikes (one is Shimano 105 11 speed and the other is Shimano Ultegra 11 speed) with manual transmission. The kits arrived from Europe just this end of the month and I am eager to use your videos to make the update. It seems that the video is from more than 1 year ago, so I'm thinking that all this time, the negative observations that you show in the video maybe Shimano has improved them (I don't know about this). You mention that there are several forums about Shimano Ultegra Di2 the new version. Can you please tell me what they are, because I know I will have problems and will need help to fully achieve the upgrade.
Thank you so much
I understand that the 13s is the one that I’m waiting for!!!
Hello. Excellent review. I also fond that the chain squeaks immediately when contaminated, I live in dubai and this a challenge as compared to the old one. The gear change is sometimes laggy. And most importantly, we can not download the app in this region. My mechanic has it though and have to go there every time I need an update or a small change. This is unacceptable for an electronic set that is fully dependent on an app
Pretty sure the 12sp rear derailleurs are good up to 36t as that cassette size is coming on the 105 spec level. The 105 system will use the existing derailleur, I.e. same cage length derailleur as 12sp ultegra and DA.
Sure Terry can confirm 👍
34 for Ultegra and DA, 36 for 105. But yeah, Ultegra and DA will handle the 36T fine :)
@@BetterShifting how can you know for sure? As far as I can tell, noone anywhere has got their hands on the 11-36 to even try
@@thedownunderverse Shimano tend to set the official limits pretty conservative/safe. You can generally exceed the max by 2 no problem:)
@@BetterShifting generally true, i agree. not 100% sure until tested though. Man I hope GRX isn’t too far away. And I hope there’s an 11-42 (or 11-44) HG cassette on its way
@@thedownunderverse 12-sp mechanical yeah… not sure when the di2 version is coming though:(
Coming from Ultegra 1spd mechanical to 12spd I noticed the shifting speed straight away and the ease of setting up the system was nice but the app takes way too long to connect when you just want to quickly tweak something or check battery status as I'm running Kar002 and can't see my battery life and the life of the Di2 isn't great, every 4-6 weeks charge for me. TBH I'd be just as happy running my 11spd Ultegra mechanical groupset if I didn't like only having 2 brake cables showing on my bike. But I'm seriously thinking of just going back to mechanical, it just worked, I never had to adjust the barrel or touch anything, once set up it was flawless for 6-7,000km. I "upgraded" to 12spd because I got a very good deal on the groupset.
The battery life is long enough not to worry me. I also click the shifters to make sure Di2 connects to my Wahoo before I set off. The only downside for me to wireless is the need to connect the shifters to the battery to update the firmware. Fortunately, there’s only been one shifter update in the 11 months since I upgraded (from 105 R7020).
The E-Tube app feels like an app from the late 2000s.
Longer lever hoods would be a huge upgrade for me, pinching my fingers into the cramped undercarriage of the 8000 levers is a literal pain.
Thanks for this thorough review!!
I have been considering switching to Di2 12 speed. But I think I will stick with my 5800 system. I recently did a deep cleaning of the shifters, changed to Jagwire cables, and shifting performance is better than ever.
Not sure if the latest tech and associated $$$ is really needed.
With extra cables required comes as you mentioned extra cost. Need to take this into account when purchasing as shimano is usually cheaper to start with.
Cheaper than who?!? Last I checked a SRAM Force AXS Groupset is cheaper than a Shimano R8100 Groupset
@Cory Rood great to know that. Sram looks so much easier to set up. Hopefully a new upgraded version is due out soon.
Thanks for yet another awesome review. As I am contemplating getting a Rotor ALDHU crankset with a SIGEYI AXO power meter for my Shimano Ultegra 8170 groupset, I just need to confirm that I understood you correctly... Using the 8170 chainrings with the Rotor crankset will work fine with no downsides? No problem regarding the small difference in offset or smaller chainring spacing?
I was always an Ultegra mechanical user on my three previous bikes but, on my newest bike, I’m so glad I decided to go with SRAM ETap 12-speed. Been faultless
I have a foot in all camps with Di2, AXS, and now mechanical XTR.
@@gplama excuse me sir, Campagnolo is not dead ... yet
🤣🤣
@@gplama Have had mechanical GRX and Ultegra so far. Wanted to upgrade the Ultegra to 12speed Di2 but now I'm unsure. Should I consider Sram eTap? How does the battery life compare between Di2 and eTap? What is more comfy to charge at home and on tour?
@@rainbowlable Entirely your call what to consider/buy/etc. RE: Charging. It depends how much you're shifting. From memory (without actually testing) AXS lasts me about the same as the new Di2, although I'm only using an AXS 1x system. It's easier to carry a spare AXS battery.
I'm glad I choose Scram for electronic. Scram is so simple it has me thinking I can build my own bike now
Great video Shane, thanks. I've had the 12 speed groupset on a Cervelo Caledonia for about 10 months and have generally been pleased with it. However, I had an issue last year where the battery was not holding its charge and dropping to zero % from a full charge over a couple of days - even without any rides.This seemed to coincide after a particularly wet ride although I can't be certain. I checked all the firmware and connections, and everything seemed OK (apart from being unable to do the shifter update as I don't have the cable) but it kept happening, I've now had the bike in the house (it usually lives in the garage) since mid December on the turbo and the issue seems to have resolved itself - perhaps everything has dried out? Be interesting to see if anyone else experiences this issue with the groupset or if there any suggestions what the issue actually was.
❤⚡️
Some nice wheels yo
Hey Shame, what derailleur hanger are you using on the TCR?
Sigeyioioiooiiii. Or something like that :)
I want a climbing button module that's small and compact! I love the old climbing switch but it's hideously huge. I'm also not going to use the separate switches; I want less zip ties, not more!
Years from now when the app will no longer work and the proprietary battery will no longer be produced. Mechanical groupsets will still be working just fine.
Cool story
Your TCR with the 808s looks absolutely mint - I've seen a load of your videos with a variety of wheels, maybe a video on your thoughts on those that you have used, pros and cons etc. would be good as really value your opinion! On the video content; are the levers backward compatible (if wired)? For example, can I get the ergonomic benefits on my current ultegra Di2 set-up? Thanks
No backward compatibility at this time,no.
How long until we get 12 speed GRX di2 do you think? I’m perfectly happy with the 11 speed on my gravel bike, but surely shimano are working on it. With regards to levers, the ergonomics of the grx di2 levers is much better than the road ones IMO. Great, honest video.
I've no idea on the GRX side of things sorry.
Ah I've noticed the battery drained a little fast at first but seems okay at the moment. Unfortunately havent ridden enough to really notice. The click to wake is not an issue for me. Just click a couple times before clipping in.
BS that we need a cable to update the shifters but what is there to update anyway? Everything works out of the box
2:08 I’ve been noticing my Garmin 1040 is a few degrees crooked and noticed yours is too.
No mention of the new USB cable connecting directly to the RD, eliminating the need for a USB charger, and elimination of the A junction? Also, did you not notice the shifting (particularly in front) being must faster and crisper? I agree with the statement that the groupset isn't going to make you a faster rider (over the 11sp), but overall, the experience is much better from a builders standpoint, and marginally better from the user standpoint.
It's still a proprietary USB cable connection, so in that respect it's not really a plus. Elimination of components covered in Part II. No gear change speed notice. It's snappy, as was the previous generations. Maybe others will notice it more. I didn't.
@@gplama I thought one of the other reviewers had stated an increase in shifting speed. I'll see if I can find it. Edit: looking at some of the articles from the 8100 launch, I'm seeing reference to Shimano claiming 45% faster front shifting and 58% faster rear shifting. It seemed very noticeable to me. (?)
The wheels mfg bb86 bb you are using. I fitted same to my propel but had noticed a slight cream from the bb. When I removed I noticed it had worn away some of the bb. Had only used grease when installing but thinking back the fit was very slack and I could basically push the bb in. Think I'll give it a second chance with PT retaining compound but perhaps something to look out for on your two TCRs Shane.
A slight CREAM? Interesting! ;-)
It was possible to switch off the gear position control if you connected Di2 to a computer
Shane was curious but the operating sound with the 12 speed groups? Would you say noise is similar or has it been improved?
The sound right at the end was the FD. I'd say it's about the same... maybe a little quieter.
The lever updates are annoying to be honest. I'm going to see if my mechanic can do that for me next time I go in for a servicing. The click wake function is not a big deal for me.
I have a new bike coming in two weeks and this makes me wonder if it makes sense to have the shop set it up fully wired. Is it just firmware updating that is not possible or is there other e-tube app functionality I would be missing out on? Great video!
I was hoping others might have commented. I’m facing the same dilemma.
Was there an update on the new sprint shifters/installation of them etc that you were planning to put on this upgrade? Would love to see the outcome and information of them with the new Shimano 12spd Di2.
It's still on the cards! Stay tuned.
Shimano if you’re reading… give us the option to lock out the the bottom cogs while in the small chainring. My chainstay is damaged from accidentally shifting into the small/small while hypoxic mid effort 😢
Stupid that the 12sp dura ace allows you to lock out the bottom cogs while in the small front ring, but the ultegra doesn’t
cant setup semi synchro shifting, preventing small/small and big/big?
Question on shifters reach. How do they compare in length to the mechanical 800 Ultegra? Are they bigger or smaller? Looking to upgrade but I want to make sure is not going to be a big change in terms of reach...
I wonder if the wake up click will create an issue for a pro cyclist who sits in the peloton for 45 minutes and then tries to shift to do a surprise attack but the click doesn't shift.
That's a LONG time not to change gears, especially in a bunch where the speed will change a lot. I suspect if it ever was a problem they'd just wire the levers.
Is it true that the 12 speed groupser allows you to shift smoothly during load?
Has anyone tried the Magene p325 CS with the 12 speed groupset?
Thanks Shane! Do you know why there's seemingly less cassette options with the 12 speed groupset. The only two options I see from Shimano are the 11-30 and 11-34. In previous generations, there were 12-25 or 11-23 cassettes which featured smaller steps between gears. Personally, I live near a river, and while there are climbs, its mostly flat so the 30/34 gear isn't really needed but having the smaller steps between gears is nice.
I’ll take a guess that it has to do with the size of the cage on the rear derailleur.
I still don't understand all the hype about wireless shifting, It doesn't add anything extra as a user... first thing I did when I get my new bike with 12s Shimano was to wire it. And i'm thinking on moving my AXS gravel to GRX mainly because of that. I also prefer Shimano brakes but that's a different topic. Battery life goes back to it old self, and that makes sense as it will disable the gyros on the derailleurs for wake up.
Is there a trick to going "small-small"? My DuraAce 9200 won't let me do that. I must be doing something wrong? 🤔
On Dura-Ace there is Gear Position Control and you cannot go small x small. However, depending on the chain rings and cassette settings, you may be able to disable this in E-Tube Cyclist. It’ll be under the synchro settings, and then “various settings” or something :)
@@BetterShifting Cool, I'll take a look. Thanks!
Does anyone know about after market chainrings for the r8100. I wanna ride a 53t but i found nothing.. Only the dura ace 54t for only 200 bucks...
Hi Shane. What saddle bag is that that you are using please
Continental Saddle Bag amzn.to/3GYvcLV
regarding the firmware update for the STIs: you could just pull the seatpost out and use a long cable or if you do not want to remove the seatpost, unplug the front derailleur and use a SD300 connector and a long cable to the STI.
Yep. Still a massive pain in the arse.
@@gplamadisappointed that you did not mention that option on the video and just made it sound like you needed to buy the SM-PCE02, which is not the case.
@@johnventevogel7415 He did mention it.
@@paulmacklin4201 I don’t believe he mentioned the cable option in the video. He only mentioned have to buy the SM-PCE02 unit.
The 600mm long cable for my FD was too short and I had to install a longer one -> now I have the extra cable for fw update
Weird question, can those white plastic tabs under the brake lever be re-used to stop the lever from being squeezed (e.g. when bike is on the workstand stand, with wheel out or perhaps on a front-wheel-off indoor trainer)
Good question. Not something I’ve tried. If I can find the tabs I’ll give it a go.
@@gplama that’d be awesome…. bowling (I mean thanks) Shaaaaane 🤟🏻
Thanks for your warp up. Best overall comment @ ruclips.net/video/zNKp-xDNQOM/видео.html as you say better to lose some kilos! In essence stick with 11 speed Di2 until your next big bike upgrade. Re wireless upgrades - for those in the network world - also wires are needed for many router, WAps and switch upgrades - maybe Shimano took their inspiration from networks?
I just installed the 12 speed dura ace groupset and mine won't let me shift to the two smallest gears when in the small chain ring. I didn't see anywhere in the app to customize that. How are you able to shift to the small -small combo?
DuraAce 9200 won't allow it but Ultegra 8100 will. Terry from BetterShifting.com should be able to confirm.
Thanks for posting this. Have a question. I have a Trek Speed concept 11 speed rim brake. What components would I need if possible to upgrade to 12 speed? Target is a 54x40 / 11x34 . Currently on a Dura Ace 53x39/11x30
Best talk to your local Trek bike shop about the specific components and what you'd need on that bike.
Hey Shane, random question, are you still running 38cm bars? Running 42cm on the cervelo, run 40cm on the trainer but not sure of whether there is a 'right' way to assess a correct size.
I'm on 40cm Cadex AR bars on the Giant TCR Disc now. Also 40s on the gravel bike... maybe 42... it's hard to tell with how they sweep/angle in.
Battery life ... wired vs wired less ... 50% less is significant. You would then recommend wired?
That’s entirely your call.
I just got the Ultegra 8150 Di2 this past October. Are there any differences with the 8170?
12 speed vs 11 speed and wireless shifters.
So I also have Ultegra 8070 Di2 on my Supersix. Worth upgrading to the 12 speed or not? My main reasons are for the Hyperglide+, faster front shifting and servowave braking. Are these noticeable improvements from the 11 speed or should I save my money?
If you’re not having any issues with the 8070 like disc rub, save your money. Get some good wheels or a new bar/stem combo. (But if you’re all maxed out with upgrades, by all means get the 8170)
@@gplama No issues with brake rub and I’ve already got carbon wheels and a nice cockpit so I’m fully upgraded! How much would you say the braking and shifting has improved? I guess I’m wondering if the step from 11 to 12 speed Di2 is actually much of a performance improvement and it seems it isn’t that much.
Not a lot of improvement to be honest. The new lever shape is nice, and having the wireless module built-in is also useful.
do you have video explaining the gears tunning using the E-TUBE App ? i have a low clcick on my rear gear that I whant to get rid of.
The app steps you through it. Are you running 9200 or 8100?
@@gplama 8170
I'm on the previous 11sp Ultegra Shane, and I'm forever pulling my hair out trying to get my brakes to work without annoying rub. Do you think it's a worthy upgrade for me? Will the additional pad clearance of the new version save me some frustration?
Maybe. There's only one way to find out. :)
Awe thanks Shane.
Hey Shane. Looking at doing this myself. Is the crank upgrade a must or will it run on the r8000 crank? Cheers
I've used the Rotor ALDHU with 11spd rings on it with this setup. It works well enough. I haven't used a 8000 series Shimano crank with this though.
Thanks. I suspect it will work
Just curious. Why a Dura-ace crankset but Ultegra for everything else?
That was the DuraAce R9200-P power meter. Which tested poorly and was returned.
Nice detail as always. However was really hoping for some opinion on the brakes which are not just changed with the 10% gap. They also have a different approach to bleeding and the initial braking response is designed to be more immediate (less throw on the lever). Those things are definitely worth covering as on paper, they sound like a worthwhile upgrade alone.
As for the required wake-up clicks. Probably the biggest first world problem in history 😊
The wake up clicks continue to piss me off to this day.
Hi Lama, Is the sleep time for the levers customizable?
Not that I'm aware of.
Nope! What he said :)
i dont like that my ultegra di12speed does not connect with my wahoo element bolt v2... no idea why :(
Hmmm. It should. Have you tried scanning for devices with the Elemnt app too?
so can i use the 12 speed di2 on an 11 speed cassette? My LBS said yes but that shifting wouldn't be great. follow on question, what NEEDS to be upgraded if going from 11speed di2 to 12 speed. cheers!
Everything needs to be upgraded (except brake calipers/crankset)
The only place I’d use an 11sp cassette is on the trainer, in ERG mode 😅
Also, In the 12 speed rim brake world it's only Wired connections! These rim brake shifters aren't wireless!
The battery life decrease is alarming. Hopefully Shimano will address this down the road with a firmware update.
Quick question, I'm only interested in the extra 10% rotor clearance. Do you know if we could install the new calipers with R8070 STI levers? Read something about new technology that makes in incomplable. Wonder how much of that is just to get you to upgrade fully🧐
This was asked about a lot when the group was first announced. iirc (and I could be wrong here) the only combination that works is new levers with old callipers due to a larger stroke volume in the new levers. Google should pull up previous discussions on this.
You can use the old shifters with latest calipers! Done it and no issues.
@@gplama thanks 🙏🙌👍
@tilltheend685 Do you still get the extra 10% clearance or do the pistons take up that slack with the old shifter stroke volume?
@@gplama I would say I'm not quite getting the 10% extra clearance, but it's definitely made a difference and I'm not getting the rubbing that I did with the older calipers. I've done a friend's bike aswell with no issues. ( note dura ace system )
11:09 are you saying I'm fat?!
shimano was lazy they should have upgraded the battery capacity. the li-on chemistry has improved 2-3x in the last 10 years but shimano still uses the same battery.
E-Tube... why not... Di - Tube?
No idea… it makes remembering which app to load a pain in the arse.
ride review?
Shimano, go full wireless!, fcs
Hi Shane, as a mechanical groupset user, would you recommend straightaway jumping to this r8100 or would the older r8050 11S would do, considering there may no longer be spare parts or software support in the future for r8050?
8050 is more than fine. I have a 2nd road bike with the 9150 and it's still brilliant. I did need to upgrade the battery and add the wireless module though (two things not required on 8100).
Please sell me the old 11spd Ultegra groupo 😊
There is no reason to upgrade to 12s groupset at all (maybe unless it is over decade old) doesn't matter if from mechanical or electronic.
Ya, my rotary dial telephone works just fine. I don’t understand all the fuss about these new ‘cellular’ thing-a-ma-bobs. And while we’re at it, why can’t I find anyone locally to develop my 35 mm film rolls? It’s a damn conspiracy to get us to spend our money on frivolous, useless junk. Get off my lawn, sonny.
@@BikePappy Your comment makes 0.00 sense. Here, take this capital L, boy.
스램 사 이탭 무선이야
Prices are getting stupid
I'll stick with mechanical and stick the thousands of dollars i save in the bank.
Agreed, on a 1x system. But front mech shifting on Di2 is just better, it really, really (really… like really) is.
@@thedownunderverse But how often do you shift the front mech anyway. It's not worth the really really ....like really BIG price tag
@@DanTuber well that depends. Where I live and ride the roads are either up or down - there’s barely anything flat. Gradients ranging from 5-12%. Nothing sustained, nothing longer than a few hundred meters before you switch from up to down and then back again. In circumstances like that, if you have a FD you need it to be repeatable, dependable and effortless. It’s not like an occasional shift to enter a sustained “climbing mode” which I agree *may* be OK to live with under certain circumstances. With mechanical also comes the very cumbersome and annoying compensation shifts at the rear, which on Shimano/SRAM are one at a time. With Campy you can dump gears in one movement so that’s lovely - but Campy front shifting also sucks.
I wished that this guy it won't talk that fast!
You can play these videos at 0.75 speed. I sound drunk though. 🤣
The GO TO when you run out of ideas is to add another cog which you dont really need,some will buy into it as usual,the industry hit the wall with bikes ,carbon hit its limit so all they do is change tube shapes & make u believe 5% this & that matters same with components hit the wall they are electronic & went from wired to wireless,basically there wont be anything new just sales BS,so just pich what u like & dont get caught up with sales BS