@18:33 i love your confused reaction man 😂😂😂 but it's very clever that you caught how i did it 😅 the same game was casted by someone else but he didn't know.
@impregnable-retributioneli1530 Yeah, they haven't figured how to fix that one out yet... but when i thought about it, why can't the seer councils from the global have a cool down like terminators.... in that game, at the end, we were fighting 5 chaos termis lol
@@mostafaoraby007 You sure a cooldown would have helped? Even if there is a cooldown, if subjugated after cooldown is over, still can get over cap no problem.
That was a bit silly. That many D cannons without running time field is strange. If he wanted to stack d cannons, he should have locked them down with time field and threw singularities both in front and on the retreat path to punish the mega blobs. As indrid pointed out, they didn't really load up on anything that could damage super heavy infantry well, even threw away the power melee spears. Lot of weird choices.
Really sucks when your in a 3v3 and one of your team isn't trying to win. Chaos had such huge blobs of infantry and Eldar responded with no dark reapers or wraith guard. They just weren't in the game.
a single tzeentch dreadnought is already a questionable choice, two of them at once is just madness honestly if you want a ranged dreadnought it's safer to just leave it unupgraded and save the resources, the autocannon isn't bad anti-vehicle and shreds infantry too if you want a mobile dedicated anti-vehicle unit plague marines are always a safer choice - so much cheaper and easier to use and they'll never get wiped out unless you forget them
I found it funny, how 5+ terminator squads on the field was always considered as OK and balanced but 1 meager seer council must be always capped for "balance reasons" and when by coding oversight someone manages to get 2 at once, even Indrid who casts this game for years freaks out...
@@mostafaoraby007 Yeah, pretty much. But I find it comically absurd that all the fan boys of the other races of which not a single one has their super unit squads capped (carnifex, nobs, termies) always cry so much about eldar beeing op and therefore must have limitations and nerfs. Or at least that was my impression at the time when I quit plaing the game.
Public service reminder. 1. All faction strength, weakness, unit abilities, stats are designed to work in 1v1 settings. 2. All modes of game share same unit stats and technically cannot be made to have different stats. When changing one, it affects all others. Only one mode can be balanced as a result. 3. Elite Mod is a 1v1 balance mod. Team games are not considered when patching. 4. In a teamgame, each faction is a tool, a part of a combination as a team. There is an OP/UP combination but not an OP/UP faction. 3 same faction teams are always easily countered.
@@impregnable-retributioneli1530 That does not justify unit caps for certain factions and no unit caps for others tho does it? Even in 1v1 is having 2 nobs or termies possible so capping seers (as weaker unit compared to lets say nobs btw.) makes no sense at all. Realy seems just that some peope didnt get over their isues with eldar since pre DLC release of DOW II to this day. Unit caps are by no means balanced among factions neither in vanila nor elite and there is no reasonable justification for it by any mode of game play. 3v3 just makes it painfully obvious where as 1v1 does not by definiton allow this difference to be shown so drasticaly. In 1v1 1seers vs 2 termies does not seem as much. But in 3v3 3 seers vs 6+ termies is really fucked up, just by sheer amount of HP one team can deploy, not to mention dmg and tying up units. Cap termies (and nobs) at 1 squad and try that for once :D fan boys would cry themselves to death.
@@radomirjanecek2986 Seers being capped at 1 is purely 1v1 reason and they remain to be so because high level 1v1 players' consensus did not change about that cap from the beginning of the mod. Since this is a 1v1 mod, you can argue about why seers are capped at 1 at cordD(limk to the place is under the video description) and this is a normal activity to discuss about 1v1 balancing. However, it is a totally different matter when that proposition comes from just watching Indrid Cast 3v3 and even more so if that is on a video that is using an artificial format of Faction Wars. Elite balances based on 1/ High level 2/ 1v1 game meaning - If 1v1 and team game balance collide, 1v1 takes absolutely priority and often in great expense of 3v3 balance wise. If something wrecks 3v3 because 1v1 reasons, it is not getting patched. - Even if an argument is based on 1v1 terms, it is not patched if it is not from high skill level games perspective. - In order to push for 3v3 balancing fixes, the one who proposes needs to prove it is not touching 1v1 balancing even in the slightest. If you don't agree on above principles, no need to read the rest. This is the core value of the mod and is not up for debate. In 1v1, 1 Seer is in no disadvantage vs 2 Termies or Nobz. Having 2 of those units cripple the economy and make other units that support them to be in less quality and quantity making whoever goes for such build to be in a big disadvantage against Eldar. Also, due to how 1v1 works, Seers can hit the field slightly earlier than 1 Term or Nob. Then, before the second Term or Nob can even hit the field, Eldar mobility decides the game already. Eldar units are often in comparison weak stat wise in frontal combat vs other factions because their mobility more than compensates for such weakness in 1v1. If Eldars get buffed enough to be strong in frontal combat in 3v3, Eldar will become untouchable in 1v1. This is why Seers have a cap of 1. In case of Nobz, they are the weakest vs Eldar because of how many crowd control Eldar gets in T3. Getting Nobz vs Eldar in 1v1 is a suicide. Of course, this is not a reason to not limit Termies or Nobz at 2. It is simply impossible to get more than 2 Termies or Nobz in 1v1 anyways so why no cap? Cause 1v1 veterans are stubborn. I have been pushing for this for years and they just won't listen. Why refuse a change when it is not even touching 1v1 balance? Dunno man. Though i would argue otherwise about some points you brought up. "in 3v3 3 seers vs 6+ termies is really fucked up, just by sheer amount of HP one team can deploy, not to mention dmg and tying up units." - This requires some thoughts. Who said one team should be all Eldar and the other to be all SM? This is because it is Faction War which is an artificial format. 3v3 and Faction Wars are different balance wise. Balancing for one side breaks the other. In an normal 3v3, a faction cannot be looked at as an isolated piece unlike in 1v1. It is not a matter of faction vs a faction but a combination vs a combination. 3 Eldar may look weak vs 3 SM but how it will be if it is 1 Eldar + 2 Orks vs 3 SM? Ork T3 demolishes SM T3 in 3v3 thanks to both Flashgitz and Nobz being very potent vs SM T3. Under the assumption that a type of combination that includes 1 Eldar is strong vs 3 SM, buffing Eldar just because the faction looks weak in Faction War will break 3v3 balance. True imbalance in 3v3 will be if there is a combination that has no counters to but this combination is not going to be a team with 3 same factions. 3 same faction teams are always easily countered. - Another problem is that Indrid is only casting games that lasts more than about 26 minutes long and more than 80% of 3v3 games are decided before lasting that long. Balancing based on long games only is not going to work. - In addition, 3v3 has no ratings at all and no tournament either. Whatever is coming up in this channel, is a result of everyday game of random mishmash of skill level. When skill level is not strictly limited in that manner, nothing in this channel is worthy of considering for balancing 3v3. In comparison, 1v1 has a regular tournament with highest rating players available so skill mismash never happens and so those tournament game results can become base for 1v1 balancing.
A couple of D cannons I could understand but 5 doesn't make sense to me. I think wraith guard are better against marines than the wraith lord because they can take on most things and bash effectively.
Honestly red teams play of this match was… questionable. And using an exploit for two seer councils is pretty shady too. They’re limited to one unit for a reason, not that it helped red team though. Also noticed he didn’t recruit any more units and just relied on the two councils once he had them. Maybe a few other units could have helped out, and D-Cannon spam… I don’t think that was particularly helpful. The Eldar are definitely a mobility army, D-Cannons are the absolute opposite of that. Maybe one or two in back lines to pound the enemy once they’re pulled in by your other forces… but 5? All the enemy needs to do is rush your lines with a melee unit and your whole army is off the field. I could see it working if they were way more in sync… but they really weren’t co-ordinated enough for that. Still good match though, just very dubious on Red team’s tactical choices.
@@KingGale honestly speaking you’d need to speak to the mod devs to get their actual reasoning, so I can’t speak to what that is exactly but I would think it’s along the lines that for Eldar they tank damage well, do serious melee damage with some serious disruption capabilities on top of that (which are built in and don’t need upgrades or abilities to trigger), move fast, have passive buff auras for characters and other units nearby and are generally good at handling any kind of unit or situation and are cheaper to call in than both a fully upgraded nob squad and terminators. Nobs and Terminators tend to have hard counters to them too, seer council don’t really have as much of an issue with hard counters off the bat. Though I haven’t really kept up with patch notes for a while so some of that could be inaccurate now.
Mostafa: My Seers had double since last we've met
Bebop: Double the memes, twice the fail
Seeing setup team spam just feels like the player has already given up
Seeing Tenso getting 2 Tzeench Dreadnoughts was also kinda weird. I thought at that point it was a meme build game
Feels like they were just having fun
Yeah like the 4 Manticore guy. I would say it's an interesting play unlike 5 rangers which is pure cancer.
"Where's that great unclean one? He's a beautiful boy". Gorgeous id venture!
Indrid , never change man. Never.
18:39 "I bet Eldrad is behind this!"
@18:33 i love your confused reaction man 😂😂😂 but it's very clever that you caught how i did it 😅 the same game was casted by someone else but he didn't know.
Yeah, when subjugated, you can circumvent unit caps. Dunno how yet to block that exploit tech side wise. ;p
@impregnable-retributioneli1530 Yeah, they haven't figured how to fix that one out yet... but when i thought about it, why can't the seer councils from the global have a cool down like terminators.... in that game, at the end, we were fighting 5 chaos termis lol
What if you're going to build that unit? Double Weirdboy or Vanguards sounds awesome :)
@@mostafaoraby007 You sure a cooldown would have helped? Even if there is a cooldown, if subjugated after cooldown is over, still can get over cap no problem.
@impregnable-retributioneli1530 over cap.... hmmmm...more hacks to come 😅
That was a bit silly. That many D cannons without running time field is strange. If he wanted to stack d cannons, he should have locked them down with time field and threw singularities both in front and on the retreat path to punish the mega blobs. As indrid pointed out, they didn't really load up on anything that could damage super heavy infantry well, even threw away the power melee spears. Lot of weird choices.
- "How many D cannons you want?"
-" Yes"
Attack the D-cannon!
Really sucks when your in a 3v3 and one of your team isn't trying to win. Chaos had such huge blobs of infantry and Eldar responded with no dark reapers or wraith guard. They just weren't in the game.
a single tzeentch dreadnought is already a questionable choice, two of them at once is just madness
honestly if you want a ranged dreadnought it's safer to just leave it unupgraded and save the resources, the autocannon isn't bad anti-vehicle and shreds infantry too
if you want a mobile dedicated anti-vehicle unit plague marines are always a safer choice - so much cheaper and easier to use and they'll never get wiped out unless you forget them
Great scrap Boyz!!! Indrid thank you for the sweet cast good Sir as always!
Comments for the Comment Throne!!!
Great game! Sorcerer getting 3 wipes in 20 seconds was a sight to behold.
Feed these Aeldari souls directly to Slaanesh!
Corrupt those who dared survive.
I found it funny, how 5+ terminator squads on the field was always considered as OK and balanced but 1 meager seer council must be always capped for "balance reasons" and when by coding oversight someone manages to get 2 at once, even Indrid who casts this game for years freaks out...
That's what i was saying.... Eldars T3 has been pathetic for a long time specially for 25 minutes+ games.
@@mostafaoraby007 Yeah, pretty much. But I find it comically absurd that all the fan boys of the other races of which not a single one has their super unit squads capped (carnifex, nobs, termies) always cry so much about eldar beeing op and therefore must have limitations and nerfs. Or at least that was my impression at the time when I quit plaing the game.
Public service reminder.
1. All faction strength, weakness, unit abilities, stats are designed to work in 1v1 settings.
2. All modes of game share same unit stats and technically cannot be made to have different stats. When changing one, it affects all others. Only one mode can be balanced as a result.
3. Elite Mod is a 1v1 balance mod. Team games are not considered when patching.
4. In a teamgame, each faction is a tool, a part of a combination as a team. There is an OP/UP combination but not an OP/UP faction. 3 same faction teams are always easily countered.
@@impregnable-retributioneli1530 That does not justify unit caps for certain factions and no unit caps for others tho does it? Even in 1v1 is having 2 nobs or termies possible so capping seers (as weaker unit compared to lets say nobs btw.) makes no sense at all. Realy seems just that some peope didnt get over their isues with eldar since pre DLC release of DOW II to this day. Unit caps are by no means balanced among factions neither in vanila nor elite and there is no reasonable justification for it by any mode of game play. 3v3 just makes it painfully obvious where as 1v1 does not by definiton allow this difference to be shown so drasticaly. In 1v1 1seers vs 2 termies does not seem as much. But in 3v3 3 seers vs 6+ termies is really fucked up, just by sheer amount of HP one team can deploy, not to mention dmg and tying up units. Cap termies (and nobs) at 1 squad and try that for once :D fan boys would cry themselves to death.
@@radomirjanecek2986 Seers being capped at 1 is purely 1v1 reason and they remain to be so because high level 1v1 players' consensus did not change about that cap from the beginning of the mod. Since this is a 1v1 mod, you can argue about why seers are capped at 1 at cordD(limk to the place is under the video description) and this is a normal activity to discuss about 1v1 balancing. However, it is a totally different matter when that proposition comes from just watching Indrid Cast 3v3 and even more so if that is on a video that is using an artificial format of Faction Wars.
Elite balances based on 1/ High level 2/ 1v1 game meaning
- If 1v1 and team game balance collide, 1v1 takes absolutely priority and often in great expense of 3v3 balance wise. If something wrecks 3v3 because 1v1 reasons, it is not getting patched.
- Even if an argument is based on 1v1 terms, it is not patched if it is not from high skill level games perspective.
- In order to push for 3v3 balancing fixes, the one who proposes needs to prove it is not touching 1v1 balancing even in the slightest.
If you don't agree on above principles, no need to read the rest. This is the core value of the mod and is not up for debate.
In 1v1, 1 Seer is in no disadvantage vs 2 Termies or Nobz. Having 2 of those units cripple the economy and make other units that support them to be in less quality and quantity making whoever goes for such build to be in a big disadvantage against Eldar. Also, due to how 1v1 works, Seers can hit the field slightly earlier than 1 Term or Nob. Then, before the second Term or Nob can even hit the field, Eldar mobility decides the game already. Eldar units are often in comparison weak stat wise in frontal combat vs other factions because their mobility more than compensates for such weakness in 1v1. If Eldars get buffed enough to be strong in frontal combat in 3v3, Eldar will become untouchable in 1v1. This is why Seers have a cap of 1. In case of Nobz, they are the weakest vs Eldar because of how many crowd control Eldar gets in T3. Getting Nobz vs Eldar in 1v1 is a suicide.
Of course, this is not a reason to not limit Termies or Nobz at 2. It is simply impossible to get more than 2 Termies or Nobz in 1v1 anyways so why no cap? Cause 1v1 veterans are stubborn. I have been pushing for this for years and they just won't listen. Why refuse a change when it is not even touching 1v1 balance? Dunno man.
Though i would argue otherwise about some points you brought up.
"in 3v3 3 seers vs 6+ termies is really fucked up, just by sheer amount of HP one team can deploy, not to mention dmg and tying up units."
- This requires some thoughts. Who said one team should be all Eldar and the other to be all SM? This is because it is Faction War which is an artificial format. 3v3 and Faction Wars are different balance wise. Balancing for one side breaks the other. In an normal 3v3, a faction cannot be looked at as an isolated piece unlike in 1v1. It is not a matter of faction vs a faction but a combination vs a combination. 3 Eldar may look weak vs 3 SM but how it will be if it is 1 Eldar + 2 Orks vs 3 SM? Ork T3 demolishes SM T3 in 3v3 thanks to both Flashgitz and Nobz being very potent vs SM T3. Under the assumption that a type of combination that includes 1 Eldar is strong vs 3 SM, buffing Eldar just because the faction looks weak in Faction War will break 3v3 balance. True imbalance in 3v3 will be if there is a combination that has no counters to but this combination is not going to be a team with 3 same factions. 3 same faction teams are always easily countered.
- Another problem is that Indrid is only casting games that lasts more than about 26 minutes long and more than 80% of 3v3 games are decided before lasting that long. Balancing based on long games only is not going to work.
- In addition, 3v3 has no ratings at all and no tournament either. Whatever is coming up in this channel, is a result of everyday game of random mishmash of skill level. When skill level is not strictly limited in that manner, nothing in this channel is worthy of considering for balancing 3v3. In comparison, 1v1 has a regular tournament with highest rating players available so skill mismash never happens and so those tournament game results can become base for 1v1 balancing.
Thank you indrid:)
YaY factionZ warZ is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heretics kill xenos and both die constantly
For the God emperor!
Why would you be able to get two Nob squads, Paladins, infinite termies, but not two Seer Councils? It doesn't make any sense.
A couple of D cannons I could understand but 5 doesn't make sense to me. I think wraith guard are better against marines than the wraith lord because they can take on most things and bash effectively.
D-cannon is nice but Eldar basically no frontline at that point. That's kinna bummer imo.
Sending hate to ever faithful for throwing what was an entertaining, competitive match.
After many years I *still* feel like mark of tzeentch chaos dread is never worth using.
That was...weird?
Are dark reapers still in the game? Never see them in any game. Just rangers which seem to never kill anything. 🤨
Yeah for a good reason... they SUCK so bad!!
DR rework is underway! Give suggestions at cordD. The limk to the place is under the video description.
eldar blew it.
Honestly red teams play of this match was… questionable. And using an exploit for two seer councils is pretty shady too. They’re limited to one unit for a reason, not that it helped red team though. Also noticed he didn’t recruit any more units and just relied on the two councils once he had them. Maybe a few other units could have helped out, and D-Cannon spam… I don’t think that was particularly helpful. The Eldar are definitely a mobility army, D-Cannons are the absolute opposite of that. Maybe one or two in back lines to pound the enemy once they’re pulled in by your other forces… but 5? All the enemy needs to do is rush your lines with a melee unit and your whole army is off the field. I could see it working if they were way more in sync… but they really weren’t co-ordinated enough for that. Still good match though, just very dubious on Red team’s tactical choices.
What is the reason Seer Council is limited to one, but Nobs, Terminators, etc. aren't limited at all?
@@KingGale honestly speaking you’d need to speak to the mod devs to get their actual reasoning, so I can’t speak to what that is exactly but I would think it’s along the lines that for Eldar they tank damage well, do serious melee damage with some serious disruption capabilities on top of that (which are built in and don’t need upgrades or abilities to trigger), move fast, have passive buff auras for characters and other units nearby and are generally good at handling any kind of unit or situation and are cheaper to call in than both a fully upgraded nob squad and terminators. Nobs and Terminators tend to have hard counters to them too, seer council don’t really have as much of an issue with hard counters off the bat. Though I haven’t really kept up with patch notes for a while so some of that could be inaccurate now.
Seer council limited to 1 but cant win against nerfed chaos with 2 LOL