The Drydock - Episode 291 (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- 00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:25 - What were the biggest differences between the US Navy's Patrol craft and Sub Chasers?
00:07:49 - Was there any effort to salvage and repair the Royal Oak?
00:13:35 - What do you think are the most ridiculous weapons used for boarding actions throughout the period the channel covers?
00:18:40 - What is the etiquette concerning use of the term "skipper"?
00:21:43 - What websites or books or other resources would be good for finding blue prints of British WWII warships?
00:26:43 - How difficult was it for the US to carry out the refit of the Richelieu?
00:33:01 - Why did the US give its older fleet tugs (AT) a different classification (ATO) in 1944?
00:38:50 - How many depth charges were carried on WW2 destroyers?
00:44:50 - 'Fake fighting' at sea?
00:51:53 - Who takes over if Lion blows up at Jutland?
00:56:15 - WW1 US sailor travels?
00:59:33 - English fleet ammunition loads during the Spanish Armada campaign?
01:05:43 - Is there a steam-and-steel period admiral that in your mind resembles Admiral Sir Edward Hawke?
01:10:20 - What was the last US Navy ship to capture a vessel for which prize money was paid out?
01:14:32 - How did they measure (rotational) torque? How did a torque sensor work for a battleship's shaft?
01:19:26 - Examples where one ship of a class significantly outshone all her sisters?
01:23:10 - Blind-spot in HMS Warspite's refit armament?
01:25:22 - How aware would the stokers, trimmers and engineers deep in the belly of coal fired warships be of the battle going on outside of the ship? Also what would the action stations be of said crew members who were off duty?
01:28:15 - Why were 18lb cannon considered so inferior to 24lbers when the diameter is not that much different?
01:33:31 - Why does Halsey partially get away with his mistakes compared with Beatty?
01:40:06 - Should Hampton Roads be considered a total Confederate defeat?
01:44:52 - What is the shortest range naval gun hit?
01:48:24 - What was the 'Unrotated Projectile' system the British experimented with in WW2?
01:54:26 - In ships of the "Steam and Steel" era, how much did crew stations factor into a ships design/stability calculations?
01:57:26 - In the theoretical decisive battles of the dreadnaught era, how did the on paper order of battle of a fleet translate into the actual structure of the fleet in battle?
02:03:01 - The modern us navy uses a series of operating manuals to provide the standard for ship operations. These primarily being CSOSS and EOSS. Were there any precursors to this system in the past and how did those work?
02:09:35 - Building ships in one place and assembling them in another?
02:16:08 - Even at the peak of the Napoleonic wars the Royal Navy created many more officers than necessary to command the fleet, to the point that even quite famous officers had trouble finding active employment. How did the Navy justify the expense of keeping so many supernumerary officers on half-pay?
02:23:39 - US Navy Search and Rescue for its carrier pilots and aircrew in the Pacific theatre?
02:29:04 - For the British Navy in the age of sail, 1650 - 1850, when signing up to serve aboard a ship, does this entitle your family members to collect your pay if you happened to die in service or was it up to the individual to send home money if they made it to pay day?
02:37:58 - What were the manufacturing tolerances for guns and shells required to have to get that consistent accuracy?
02:42:21 - How bad could flag signalling get?
02:49:18 - How common was it for submarine commanders to be as politically adept as Fluckey of USS Barb was portrayed in his book?
02:54:43 - Effectiveness of heavy AA?
03:05:34 - How effective were the Romanian and Bulgarian navys against the Russians during the black sea campaign in WW2?
03:07:45 - Naval jet aircraft in late WW2?
03:10:55 - What was the intended role of the Helmover 'Super Torpedo' and do you suppose it would have actually worked?
03:14:55 - Other than the Anzac landing, are there other interesting or decisive naval battles in the region that contributed to the Ottoman Empire loss and the subsequent British/French mandate for the region?
03:17:39 - Why weren't the IJN alerted at Midway on the 3rd?
03:18:48 - Battle of Leyte Gulf sailings?
My head is full of interesting naval facts that I probably have no use for, except to say, “Wow, I never knew that.” Thank you Mr. D.
My head is at peace and calm.
Drach has an astoundingly well paced and yet relatively neutral voice so I may well use the Drydock for a nap or two.
Always up early on Sunday for Perun's weekly PowerPoint, and Uncle Drach obviously.
The PRR (Pennsylvania RailRoad) actually had a small fleet of special flat cars for transporting Naval main gun barrels 12", 14", and 16" from wherever they were removed from the ship, to the gun re-lining facility at the Philadelphia Naval yard, and later at the Norfolk Naval yard in Virginia. These special cars could be dispatched from the East Coast to the West Coast, with re-lined barrels in six days, and be back in Philadelphia a little over a week later with the barrels that needed to be re-lined.
I have a set of these models in HO scale on my RR. One set carrying 16" tubes, and another set carrying 14" tubes.
Is it okay to call the Captain "Skipper" if he calls you "Little Buddy?"
😂
Run!... ( Or swim !)
How many people today know anything about "Gilligan's Island" I wonder?
Just sit right back & you'll hear a tell, A tell of a faithful ship
Idk, I had never thought about it before but I think that may have drawn in the lgbtq community considering they are stranded on a deserted island. However, with Ginger & Maryann there I guess that the Professor was having more fun than the show let on.
Nine Drydocks to 300. I say again, NINE Drydocks to 300!!!
I might well ask a question based on a certain RN ship name
It's hard to believe that he started out with robo voices and no drydock to this in such a relatively short period of time.
@@bull614 And given us so many good jokes - for example, I convinced two royal navy officers there really was an HMS _By Jove!_
@Trek001 thats hilarious. Well done lmao
It doesn't seem that long ago he was celebrating 50
Anyone interested in subchasers in WW2 should read Edward P. Stanford’s book “Subchaser” about his time as CO of one before he became XO of a DE in the Pacific (which led to his book “Little Ship, Big War). Both are great reads!
My brain has been to rotted by the interwebs to read books like that these days I'm sorry to say
@@Legitpenguins99 I don’t understand.
Started listening around Drydock 60. Thank you Drach from Oregon, USA!
On Subchasers you should do a five minute guide on PC-1264 which not only served on anti-sub patrol in the Atlantic in WW2 but as one of 2 US Navy ships with African-American crews helped lead to the integration in the Navy post war. There is a good book written by her commander which I have a copy of and could send you if desired.
Technically the first carrier based jet was the little-known Ryan FR Fireball (though they only get half points as they were a mixed jet/propeller plane). VF-66 aboard the carrier Ranger was the first to receive them in March 1945, but due to the pilots having to get used to the handling characteristics they were never used operationally before the war ended.
For clarity. In material mechanics, strain is *defined* as the deformation of a material. Deformation is not the result of *applied* strain. It is the materials response to stress - typically, as caused by applied load(s) - ie force(s) - such as a torque.
I can expand a little on that: deformation can be expressed in length, strain is dimensionless: e.g. a percentage elongation of a material. Small stress = small strain can give large displacement / deformation if it is applied on a geometry with a long arm.
E.g. a springcoil can have a relative large displacement, even thought the (torsional) strain in every piece of wire in the coil can be quite small.
it is also why strength should not be confused with stiffness. Strength is a material property and local geometry, stiffness the result of both material and global geometry.
E.g. a spingcoil is as strong as the weakest bit in the spring (like for instance a local crossection that is reduced due to a crack), where stiffness can be influenced by crossection of the wire diameter, the length of the coil (length, but also number of windings), overal coil diameter, etc.
Wow you got to meet Capt Brown ? A proper hero of mine and maybe the greatest pilot of all time. Was he as much a gentleman as he always seemed from his interviews ?
As somebody who also met him, I can say that he was indeed a gentleman. I had the chance to speak to him at a dinner in about 2010 or so and I asked if I could question him on a few things. Instead of his combat and testing career, I wanted to know what he had thought about Gagarin when he had the chance to interview him and his eyes lit up and he waxed on and on in great detail and then thanked me for not asking the same sorts of questions he always was and then we repaired to the bar and had a drink together
Lovely man, very happy to talk, the more esoteric the question the better.
@@Trek001 Amazing.
@@Drachinifel Glad he was as nice as he seemed.
@@Boric78 It was and I am honoured to have had the chance to speak to him.
The reason I think it was in 2010 or so is because the decommissioning of _Ark Royal_ was about to happen and I asked him what he thought about it and his views were rather strong
Currently sitting through the first of two Easter celebrations. I cannot WAIT to get home and have a 6 hour Drach marathon while I unwind :)
Easter ....bunny's an jelly beans... ... Ham an pineapple easter? Discount chocolate easter! How ! How can it bee ! I missed easter? .. .. .. by three weeks or so , apparently..coupons!
I’ve probably heard this Drydock 4 or 5 times, and this is the first time I’ve heard you calling me out for being awake. Way to shame us sleepy time listeners! 😂 Never doubt that your videos are multipurpose; unparalleled educational material, and superb sleep aid.
To be honest, sometimes I put this on when I go to bed. Then snap. I'm out! 😴
@@j.d.broockerd8717 me too lol
It's a problem when I do, because then I get interested and can't sleep
One might try geologist for inducing sleep....do avoid the stone chipping folks ...
I'm glad I'm not the only one lol
Of course I'm awake! Preview said you answered my question about Virginia at Hampton Roads in this episode! :D
Thanks!
Question: In an episode of the Great War covering early 1915, Indy states that the British and French were unwilling to open a campaign in the Adriatic against the Austro-Hungarians because they had "newly built dreadnoughts". This strikes me as odd, because the Tegetthoffs were not that new by comparison to what other nations had, in terms of technology and likely could be overcome. How would we define the threat that these ships pose? What constitutes a modern ship or an obsolete ship?
Nothing better then playing world of warships and listening to warships
Exactly what I’ve been doing for the past few hours
Drach, if memory serves the first landing of a jet powered aircraft may have been one month earlier the Captain Brown's attempt - a Ryan FR Fireball landed on in November 1945 after the prop engine failed the pilot got the jet engine started and completed the landing recovery
TY Drachinifel , Your ocean of naval wisdom is always welcome at our house.
Despite living on an Island (Vancouver Island) there is not much to document.
We did build some few Flower class, and did receive tiny bombing, and shelling from minor Japanese forces, yet forgettable. Perhaps a TY for the RN forces , and Royal Marines , as they built the defenses of Fort Rodd Hill. 1896-1956.
Greetings fellow Islander!
What living or not living on an island has to do with the amount of things to document?! 🤣🤣
There are several places in Scotland called Tarbert. It is derived from the Gaelic for across-carrying. They are usually on an isthmus or narrow strip between the sea and a inland Loch. They are points where the Vikings and native Scots carried ships and goods from one bit of water to another.
8:00
A 20-year old capital warship that is torpedoed several times and sinks more-or-less upright, and with its upper deck clear of the water, can be salvaged, especially if some or all of the main machinery and dynamo / generator spaces stay watertight.
If that same warship is torpedoed even once and capsizes, it is irretrievably wrecked. Every major piece of equipment will, if not break completely free of its mountings, twist and warp all physical connections to the point that putting it right will be more work than building an entirely new ship of a modern design.
I love the dry dock game. Drink every time drach says *et cetera* and you never lose
Alcoholism before drydock no. 100. By 200th severe liver failure. You may not live long enough to see no. 300.
Hard to call that a win, but it'd fun as hell 😂
@@Ansset0 we’re at 293 or something don’t jinx me. I’m seeing New Jersey in dry dock for 300 hopefully she falls on me hahahaa
What are some of the most over exaggerated or over stated ship careers and performances?
I’d say IJN Kongo at the battle off Samar, the Iowas engaging convoys off Truk during operation Hailstone, and USS West Virginia’s performance at Surigao Strait.
I just noticed the Sulla comparison at 2:50:00. I'm very pleased to know Drach is a Cain enjoyer (although I really shouldn't be surprised).
thanks Drach :) for more awesomeness. Also you may use skipper for reference to ships pilots when you have a captain on the bridge and a pilot on the wheel you may use skipper to reference the pilot to save on confusion.
AH that makes sense,, I notice also on smaller ships and especially very small like a PT boat or these SCs that since the CO is usually a lieutenant,, they're addressed as "Skipper" rather than captain most of the time...
Sgt. Harper never seemedto have trouble using the Nock volley gun.
AND he was able to reload all seven barrels in mere seconds.
Far from having only one or two classes in commissions in the 1980s, the US Navy had a proliferation of classes. Several people have already mention carriers so I will stick to surface combatants in comission taking 1985 as the base year.
Frigates: Bronstein, Garcia, Brooke, Knox and Perry classes. All but the Perrys were originally classified as Ocean Escorts (DE) and reclassified as Frigates (FF) in 1975.
Destroyers: Farragut, Adams and Spruances Classes.
Cruisers: Leahy, Belknap, California, Virginia, Ticonderoga classes.
The Farragut, and all but the Ticonderoga Classes were originally classified as DLG/N. However, they received that designation for their hull form and not for the naming convention. They were referred to as Frigates in the age of sail meaning. (NAVSOURCE). The Farraguts were reclassified as DDGs in 1975 and the remaining classes as cruisers in 1975. You could think of the DLGs as fhe equivalent of fifth and sixth rates in age of sail terminology or Atlanta class CLAAs of the modern era.
For a book written by a submarine commander about his experiences in WWII, I agree with Drach, if it's a good book, regardless of style, I will read it.
I have two recommendations:
Paul Schratz: "Submarine Commander: A Story of World War II and Korea"
Ignatius J. Galantin: "Take Her Deep! A Submarine Against Japan in World War II"
The US Navy of the 1980s had four classes of fleet carriers: M8DWAY, FORRESTAL, KITTY HAW, and NIMITZ
I've also heard skipper used among the Marines to refer to their company commander which is usually a "Captain O-3."
Many thanks Drach. Love your content.
Very good both Q's and A's .
No, the "SC" designated hulls didn't serve in open oceans or within a fleet movement.....but- many had to cross open oceans & serve under BRUTAL conditions later on when they were given up in Soviet/US Lend/Lease programs in 1944. One such unit went down the ways, in my small home town of 10,000 people- in a tributary that leads into the Delaware Bay.
🚬😎👍
I thought that the last case of a US ship's crew receiving prize money was in 1941, when the USS Omaha (CL-4) took the German blockade runner SS Odenwald.
"You're awake"😂😂
YOU MET WINKLE?
so jealous. I hope you treasure the 5 minutes- i am pretty sure you will- planes may not be your first love, but - that man was special...:)
The unrotated projectile was the platform on which the radar proximity fuze was first tested in the UK before being demonstrated in the USA as part of the Tizard mission.
re sub chasers - The RN used armed trawlers and drifters in many of the roles described
Oh good I’m awake.. NOT FOR LONG! The best sleeping material on the internet.
As a side on American SC and PC, a number of them were employed as landing craft control craft for major amphibious operations.
Wasn't Ermie King an observer at the Sturdee versus Beatty exercise and the negative impression he got of Beatty was a major contributor to his dislike of the Royal Navy?
Monitor had a significant advantage in speed and manouverability over Virginia. Another day of combat constituted a significant mechanical risk for the Confederate's propulsion unit. If Virginia was totally subject to tide and wind, it is likely she would have been hung up on sand bank and scuttled.
Pearl Harbor water temperature is quite mild. It's Hawaii, after all. Scapa Flow is not a recreational swimming destination.
Who was closer laffy or some of the destroyers in Narvik? I recall in that battle mention of Pom-pom gunners taking cover from the shrapnel of their own rounds
HMS Sheffield, one ship of the class that outshined them all.
PC craft were used around the Solomon Islands. If you read the book "Peter Charlie: The Cruise of the PC 477" it goes through her usage throughout the Pacific war. The books explained how Admiral Nimitz came aboard to find out the PC ships capabilities, and if they would be able to carry out escort and antisubmarine duties. It is an easy read and I found it quite interesting to read the life on a smaller Patrol Craft.
You are spot on as to the what the engineering crew would experience during battle. As to off duty crew there would be none since all would be at their General Quarters station. In the USN the Engineers would be split with half at operating stations and half at repair lockers. In this way there would be crew not only to fight fire and restore the casualty, but also replace killed and wounded crew. The issue of fire flaring back out of the boiler as the result of punching a hole in the fire room is the main reason most USN combatants by WW2 had boilers with fully enclosed air casings that were connected directly to the forced draft blowers. A separate ventilation system was provided for crew "comfort".
"oh good, you're awake" 😂😂
Where can I find an example or two to read about the captains talking oh so cleverly about allowing the smaller shift to do a fake broadside?
Regarding the depth charges question: if memory serves, in the Greyhound book they had some extra depth charges stowed away. But there's a long sequence in the book that was cut from the movie, where they try to sink a U-Boat in cooperation with another one of the escorts over a period of many hours (hence the cut), drop lots of depth charges including the extras, and accomplish nothing (a very common story for 1942, things would change in 1943). That's why the ship is short on depth charges for the final battle.
Along with the angled deck and mirror landing system another UK invention not mentioned here but which was critical to the USN was the steam catapult which was also demonstrated to the USN by Eric Brown. I can also wholeheartedly agree that for any naval enthusiast"Wings on my Sleeve"is an excellent read covering everything from his service in Martletts on the very first escort carrier HMS Audacity through his test piloting career and an interesting discussion of the air group of CVA-01 of which Brown would likely have been the first captain. It also gives a list which will never be matched of the different aircraft types(not marks of a type)that he flew
For a Navy that introduced almost every technical advance in carrier operations the Royal Navy has fielded very few first rate ships down to the present day. As was true with every British carrier afterHMS Ark Royal British carriers lacked punch compared to US and Japanese carriers. The CV-01 design continued that trend and had less striking power the an Essex class CVA.
Also rail transport from the Rocky Mountains to the west coast involves a *lot* of tunnels in both the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada.
18:40 Fun fact in American baseball (aka sensible Cricket) "Managers -- also commonly referred to as "skippers""
Worked on 688 sub where an EM last name was Skipper.
There's Dan Skipper, a college football offensive lineman. Razorbacks to Detroit Lions.
I generally agree with your assessment of Halsey. He built up a store of positive results pre war, the carrier raids and Solomons campaign that help his reputation. Beatty just didn’t have that store of positive results.
Halsey had built a considerable amount of public support due to his earlier results. The USN leadership did its best to avoid diminishing that reputation for years after WW II. For example, the fact that Halsey and his stuff were briefed on likely IJN deception tactics before the invasion of Leyte was not disclosed publicly until the official history was published. What went wrong at Jutland was a public debate by the day after the battle.
With regard to signaling errors: according to "The Fleet That Had to Die" by Richard Hough, while the Second Pacific Squadron was in Madagascar a destroyer group was signaled to form line abreast during an exercise and instead scatted in all directions. The subsequent enquiry found that some of the ships were still using an out-of-date version of the signal book. Could Kamchatka's "torpedo boat" signals have been made using the same out-of-date code book?
I hope when he gets to Drydock 2001, it shows the HAL 9000 and talks in HAL's voice for the entire episode.
Does anyone else treat these things like jeopardy? Someone asks him a question and you see if you get the same answer as him?
Regarding: 00:44:50 - 'Fake fighting' at sea? and the comments about "one broadside for honour"
I seem to recall reading of at least one case on land, i think during WW2 - maybe the German garrison of Cherbourg, or one of the other 'stay-behind' channel ports - of the garrison commander being willing to surrender but only on condition the allies produce at least one tank to fire a token shot at his position to 'justify' his 'honourable surrender', which is the same kind of idea albeit applied to the 'other side' rather than a shot fired as a token resistance.
If anyone can answer for me. Was the entire QE class to receive major restructuring? But the war cut that short for Warspite, Barham and Malaya
The war cut it short for Barham and Malaya. Warspite was first out of the gate, which is why her major refit looks so different from QE and Valiant.
Speaking of mounting a Knock gun on a swivel in the fighting tops, the US Navy is known to have purchased a dozen or two of what can only be described as muzzleloading machineguns, using a cluster of barrels loaded with superposed charges linked together by an overly complex series of flame tubes that would theoretically ignite them in sequence and keep the whole thing from exploding, in the early 1800s for just that purpose. I don't know if they were ever actually used in action, though.
Being Wikipedia, I can't be sure if this is absolutely correct, but this is what they say about the US Pacific fleet:
Until May 1940, the Battle Force was stationed on the West Coast of the United States. Headquarters, battleships, aircraft carriers and heavy cruisers were stationed at San Pedro close to the Long Beach Naval Shipyard. Light cruisers, destroyers and submarines were stationed at San Diego.
Two hours in and I want that pic of the US ship with all the small boats around as my wallpaper.
Of course I’m awake. I’m at the gym!
The volley flintlock might have made more sense if it had been fitted with a structural under-gun bracing 'hook' as wall guns were for use in fortifications. That way, the hook could be set over some structural part of the ship, which would then eat the recoil rather than the wielder. Given that structural parts of the ship are generally going to be available in a boarding action.
New desire: Drach to tell us the career of Cochrane in the style of the Silmarillion :)
I named my daughter from one of the characters in the Silmarillion. Melian. However, we pronounce it a bit differently than the British. We were in a small library in Northern Virginia where we encountered a librarian from England that informed her that in England it was actually pronounced like Melianne. To which my daughter replied MY NAME IS MELIAN!!! The second "a" being pronounced as more of a "swah e" sound. Coincidentally like the very end of librarian. Yes, Americans definitely have a way with the English language. Sorta like some of the Brits saying "Bucknam Pellis" instead of Buckingham Palace. When I first moved to the DC area I couldn't help notice a lot of people instead of saying Washington DC somehow an "r" had gotten in & they would pronounce it as Warshington DC. And I'm not the type of person that is gonna go around & try to correct anyone's pronunciations unless it has to do with my name. But I've noticed at Chick-fil-A when Latinos ask my name they have no idea how to spell Dean when I tell them my name. Most often they spell it "Din". I've thought about using my first name Ken to make it easier for them. But I've never liked using that name mainly because of the "Barbie & Ken" dolls.
Loving this - but, and this is not an April Fool's joke, when you were talking about sailor's pay being paid out to family ashore my ears perked up. You said something like 'spee kee' for "specie" but checking both my US college dictionary and the OED, the pronunciation is 'spee she' when talking about the coins of a sailor's pay.
1:20:25 is that the pocket battleship Admiral Hipper, famously armed with 11" triple turrets?
The Goben was given repair in Pola, part of the Austrian Empire prior to the start of the first World War, with the parts for her engines needed, before the war started.
One other element to anti-aircraft fire that Drach didn't mention: losses to anti-aircraft fire against ground targets. By mid-1944 for example, Eighth and Fifteenth Air force losses to anti-aircraft not only became the primary reasons planes were shot down and greatly exceeded losses in 1943 to A/A fire. They greatly outstripped losses to fighters.
25:15 "Full scale prints"? That must be a huge sheet of paper I reckon.
In Switzerland many Paddlesteamers were built in kit form. Delivered all over Europe.
The correct pronunciation of "specie" is like "species" without the s.
@ 02:23:39 Aviator Rescue: You forgot the other Duck! (JF & JF2 Grumman Duck, which was known to waddle when on land!). These were the "Utility" airplanes listed in Carrier Air Groups.
My favorite tug designations are ATT (auxility tug transport) and ATST (auxility tug ship training).
Yeah, I kinda gave up on the second one.
Many if the USN PC-461 (250 tons) class and PC-842 class (800 plus tons) served overseas in WW2. Acting as patrol craft and convoy escorts. A good number were converted to amphibious control craft participating in many amphibious assaults.
1:17:48 did Drach have a dyslexic moment, or do I have plastic and elastic deformation confused?
Halsey had presided over the desperate and successful defense of Guadalcanal before going back to fleet command. He also never publicly tried to throw blame for his mistakes on his superior officers, and instead seems to have just got on with trying to remedy the situation. So - not Beatty.
Wonder if Drach has a proper April the 1st posting ready to drop?
Heh. Funnily enough, I have been reading Cain books recently and yeah, Jenet Sulla's particular brand of purple prose is pretty painful. By contrast, I quite enjoyed Silmarillion's style, although I will readily admit that it is an acquired taste.
As a follow on from the Question if Lion had blown up at Jutland.
What would have happened if Syedlitz had blown up at Dogger Bank as it very nearly did.
This would deny the HSF knowledge about their dangerous ammunition handling procedures and who would take over during that battle?
Would the Kaiser be so rattled by the loss of one of his beloved ships that any future actions would be under such tight restrictions no further meetings would ever occur?
Us-661 Patrol ship looks great.I wish I had the money to get something like that
Near the end of "Who takes over if Lion blows up at Jutland?", probably around 56:00 - you state that the battlecruiser's normal station was at the head of the Grand Fleet but that Pakenham might choose to slot them in at the rear instead given the circumstances. I don't think you explicitly said this, but I believe the Grand Fleet Battle Orders did explicitly allow for precisely such a formation if the circumstances, as in the historical case, warranted it. So this wouldn't be a case of some wild initiative by Pakenham but rather a sensible choice between the options known to be available - the kind of sensible choice which frankly seems beyond Beatty at times!
One correction there were Kitty Hawk class carriers still in US NAVAL service into the mid 90's I did the final deployment of USS AMERICA CV 66 in the mid 90's.
Drach, are you going to cover the USS New Jersey dry docking?
He live streamed it
Thanks for the info
15:30 The Gun-Axe was a "Stupid but effective" weapon used inboarding actions, from my understanding.
Plenty accurate at close range and, once you fired, you immediately have an ax to use.
It occurs to me that crossing the chest with two X-forrming holster arrays puts a bit of leather, wood and metal between the vigorous attacker and defenders, although it is probably a drop as you go operation
1:19:30 I’m surprised you didn’t mention Enterprise?
If VIRGINIA had sunk or driven off the blockade fleet, MONITOR likely wouldn't have been able to catch up to the blockade runners to sink them.
Halsey was a good commander, no doubt about it. It is also true that he led his ships into a typhoon, not once but twice! While he was a good commander one might question his status as a seaman.
Even today it's hard to predict the course of these storms. There are lots of people in Florida USA who left the path of a recent hurricane based on the predicted track, only to find themselves in the center of the path when the storm shifted from the original prediction. Back then they didn't have weather satellites and tracking of big storms was a lot harder.
Also note that the speed of ships goes down as the wave height increases, which makes evading the storm harder if you get caught on the edges. This is especially true for the smaller ships - which also burn fuel a lot faster when the wave height goes up.
I'll also note that despite a lot of training, and paying careful attention to the weather forecast, I've been caught in an unexpected snow storm when hiking. I was accompanied by a park ranger at the same time, and we were both surprised by how fast the storm blew in. That can happen in some parts of the world. During WW2, in the Alaska campaign, some 300 US aircraft were lost. Only 60 of these were lost to enemy action, most of the others would have been lost due to bad weather blowing in unexpectedly.
I don't blame Halsey for getting hit by the Typhoon, even twice. It's the price of doing business in certain parts of the Pacific certain times of year.
I do blame him for failing to ensure his people were either refueled or had filled their empty tanks with seawater, failing to ensure people had constructed appropriate protection for their electrical generators to prevent them from shorting out when seawater came in, and failing to remind his people to jettison top-weight when appropriate. This means before the storm hits, as trying to go out on deck during the storm is extremely risky - though it sometimes had to be done (with extreme care) if certain things went wrong. Halsey may have expected all his people to already know all this, but I think it was still his duty to remind them.
I imagine he had to know that some of his destroyers were top heavy. He also had to know that some people were promoted too fast and didn't have the experience needed to know what had to be done before the storm hit. There's a huge difference between ordinary storms and the monster storms and there's a very human tendency to assume one 'knows' what is coming if one has experienced a normal storm and never actually experienced a monster storm. Also, his people may not have realized how much more powerful a typhoon can be compared to many hurricanes - they knew the Pacific was huge, but didn't necessarily think through the full implications of that fact.
He should also have explicitly authorized his people to leave formation as appropriate to protect their ships, before the storm hit. This order should not have been required, but again some of the less experienced officers might not have the judgement to make the right call before it was too late.
Not all this was solely his responsibility - it was also the responsibility of lots of subordinate officers. But he was in command, and command ultimately takes responsibility.
I'm suspect the Americans also didn't put enough time into talking to the Australian sailors working with them about these storms (and the appropriate precautions to take). I don't know this for sure. It always makes sense to get local knowledge and I suspect the Americans might have been remiss out of over-confidence.
Was AA fire ever used in a attempt to disable running torpedo's? 🧐
Regarding the Japanese response to part of their force being sighted by the PBY on June 3rd, it really didn't make much difference based on their preconceived assumptions. Going into Midway, the Japanese were absolutely certain that the USN wouldn't know their plans until Nagumo actually struck Midway on the morning of the 4th, and that the American carriers would only sortie from Pearl Harbor after that happened. This was the bedrock assumption that the Japanese never seriously questioned - to the extent that during their wargames, the officer commanding the "enemy" (US) forces essentially wasn't allowed to do anything until the June 4 strike occurred.
So from that perspective, a Midway-based PBY sighting part of their force a day before Nagumo was supposed to strike Midway anyway didn't really change anything. Maybe it meant the US carriers could sortie from Pearl Harbor (which was *of course* were they were) a little early, but there was still no *possible* way they could reach the Midway area on June 4. Hence being caught by surprise when it turned out their assumptions were all wrong and the US carriers actually *were* there.
The Battle of Hampton Roads was a tactical draw as neither vessel could end end the other as a threat to the goals each hoped to achieve.
At the end of the day the Virginia was undone by events on land rather than anything to do with results of inconclusive combat.
It was simply a forlorn hope that Virginia could lift the blockade in any case. While she could deny the North the use of Norfolk’s maritime facilities, and made the actual blockade more difficult , the Union forces would simply move operations off shore as they did other Confederate ports, Charleston, erc….
10:10 The water in Hawaii is incredibly warm.
How did you know I had been asleep.
As far as I know, the last case of prize money being paid out in the USN was actually after WW2, when the sailors of the USS Omaha claimed prize money for the boarding (afaik the last case of cutlasses being issued for a boarding action in the USN as well) and capture of the Odenwald (a German blockade runner) in November of 1941. They had to sue the US Government, and "Members of the Omaha's boarding party each won $3000, and the remainder of her crew won two months’ pay and allowances. The judgment was affirmed on appeal."
No, the crews of the Omaha and Somers along with the US government were given a reward for salvaging the Odenwald, not prize money.
The United States was not at war so there was no enemy and they couldn't have taken a prize. However, as the German crew tried to scuttle her, the crews rescued a sinking vessel that had been abandoned by her crew which entitled them to compensation for salvaging the Odenwald.
And far from having to sue the government, the United States government sued the owners of the Odenwald for the salvage reward for the government and the sailors.
110 foot wooden SC's were coastal craft. Harbor defense, coastal patrols - saw a lot of action in the Solomons and other island hopping campaigns. They did not have sonar and IIRC claimed no submarine kills during the war, although their presence would act as a deterrent. Most were disposed of quickly after the war.
The steel hull 173 foot PC's were ocean going - capable of doing the west coast to Hawaii run for example. These were more sea worthy and better weapons platforms than the SC's and had sonar. I think they were officially credited with 10 submarine kills during the war although at least one of those was later disproved. The type continued in production after the war with examples serving into the 1990's at least.
The PCE's were proper ocean going escorts and could be regarded as smaller American equivalents to the Flower class corvette. Many of these served for many decades after WWII and 6 were even built post war for the Netherlands.
Regarding Packenham, Churchill had an admiral sacked for not engaging a superior German force... so I doubt that he would be inclined to slow down or fall back given that he could see the reinforcements coming up.
But he would very likely make sure that the 5th turns right after the BCF, presenting a consolidated line to 1st SG and no target to the KM battleline.
Very, very charitable to Max Hastings. Am not a huge fan of Monty, but he despises him repeatedly using slurs. And that's just a start, he's pretty bad.
A couple of points. First, I'm not sure if Drach's favorite word is but or however. But seriously, I think Halsey gets somewhat of a pass for his 44 and 45 screw ups because of his 42 performance.
For the ship outshining her sisters, my mind also went to Prinz first. Then I would say HMS Terror and Erebus are probably the most famous bomb vessels ever, let alone of their classes. Terror is part of the US national anthem and has a national park named for her, what other ship can claim that?
What about Farragut of Mobile bay.