Having gone this road I try to do any maintenance work on the display tank on a different day if I already done maintenance work on the fallow QT tank. It's a lot of work and I doubt the decision to go for parasite eradication more than any other... but having healthy fish and not needing to worry about them (at least in regards to parasites) makes it worth it for me 😊
I'm going to try. I'm all in on total eradication. I have my first batch of fish coming through qt now. Display tank was torn down, completely rebuilt, seeded from a fishhless system and will now sit fallow at 82 degrees for 6 weeks before the fish go in. I definitely agree that this is not for the faint of heart and I think likely impossible for a biginner. The amount of cost, time and effort is enormous. I do believe that it can be done and I intend to succeed. I'm so committed to this that if something does manage to get through my qt process, I'm prepared to pull all the fish out and do it all again. If you want a 10 year tank, this is the price you will pay. But oh the tangs you can have if there is no desease in your tank. Oh the wrasse harams and schools of Anthias. Imagine how great it would be if you didn't need to worry about desease management because there was verifiable no desease in your tank. Yes. This is for me. But oh man this is hard work.
My full time job is as a quarantine aquarist at a major public aquarium. I can assure you that it IS possible to eradicate most (95%) fish diseases in a properly set up quarantine system. Unfortunately once a fish harboring a disease enters an established reef (or even fish only ) display tank it becomes nearly impossible to eradicate the disease from that tank without removing all fish and inverts and nuking the system with a combination of chemical drugs, which typically will kill your bio filter. If you have a fish disease present in your reef tank the best option besides nuking it with medications is to ensure that your fish are eating nutritious and vitamin rich food and are experiencing as little stress as possible. Even if you remove all the fish from the system and properly quarantine them , they are exposed to the same illnesses as soon as they go back in a system where the rock and sand has been exposed to that illness. In the worst cases removing all fish and inverts , quarantining and treating them in a proper treatment system , and bleaching the display tank and rock may be necessary. There’s no point in quarantining a fish and then putting it back into a tank that’s contaminated.
I’ve QT’ed all my fish so far, 30 day therapeutic copper, haven’t done any other treatments though, but have Prazi on hand in case I need it. I’ve bought all my inverts from a place that fully QTs all their fish, but have not QT’ed my coral. I hope and think you’ll get into the cost benefit ratio for all these approaches
Point 8: It takes a lot of work :) Well it's a hobby right? I like when it takes up some time :D I'm going to start a new tank in 2 weeks, and I have a full quarantine tank setup in the garage, just one but I have also light for it. So when I go to the store I can only buy fish OR coral. Not both, but I can use the tank for both. I had small tanks before and also a big tank (2.5 meter) and in the end I always ended up fighting problems (aiptasia, Asterina, bristle worms, diseases) I rather spend my time doing my hobby than fighting against problems. And i'm really aware it could still happen but rather minimize it or fight that battle in a quarantine system. I'm all in on total eradication, and I'm going to take the effort
Hi Ryan, Elliot and brs crew, apparently my system has a very very special specimen-pineapple fish(Monocentris Japonica), it has ich, others does not shoe signs and everyone is eating like a pig. Here's the catch, pineapple fishes cannot be exposed in copper and a lot of commercial medication, it is unsuitable for QT . So it is a headache to beat ich in my tank. Forced to do management
I qt my shrimp but consider them good to go in my display once they have moulted, they are qt in a fishless system, is there any advantage to waiting 76 days?
Yes, even the smallest chance of a disease creeping into your dt should be avoided for the good of the livestock. If you have to ask if you should, always go towards caution. I would always suggest going over the suggested time of quarantine because most people telling you info in this hobby are not marine biologists or biologists of any kind. I personally do 2-4 month quarantines for all fish and inverts in fresh or salt, and all fish run threw a dip of copper/formalin 37%, then have a small amount of each in their quarantine along with a weekly dose of prazipro for internal parasites. Then before going into the dt 4 months later the salt water fish get a freshwater dip and the freshwater fish get a saltwater dip. Then into the dt they go after very softly padding both sides of them with a very soft cloth to get all former water off which i also suggest doing before they get dipped before quarantine as well it gets rid of water with hitch hikers. I even quarantine all my plants for 2 months incase of hitch hikers. Even with all this I consider a strong UV sterilizer in your sump or display necessary at all times.
Reef tanks will never be truly manageable until there is a reef safe ich and velvet treatment, the average person won't set up two additional tanks to have a dt
This is really not as much work as it’s being made out to be. It’s no more work than running a second tank and making sure you don’t cross contaminate. It’s a lot LESS work than suddenly dealing with velvet which happened to me.
Generally I agree. It's a manageable amount of work for most people and should be embraced. I encourage everyone to attempt eradication. I am doing so. The thing that people need to understand is where the risks lie and how to manage them. For most people, unfortunately including myself, there will always be some risk. Its the cross contamination that is soooo hard to avoid. Ich and velvet can float 10 feet through the air. Anything wet can carry it. Maintaining separation at all times is bloody hard and expensive. You really need a lot of tanks. Holding, treatment, and observation tanks. Plus at least 1 invert and one coral qt. All spaced more than 10 feet apart. And more tanks if you have to treat different fish with different medications. To fully manage the risk you would need a dedicated fish room for each and every tank. That's rediculous even for me but without having that even the sink is a source of cross contamination. You water mixing and storage need to be 10 feet away from all of the tanks in the qt system. You need to stock a full medicine kit and be prepared for any possible threat. Shelf life and purity have to be considered. If either is off, treatment can appear to work and then weeks or months later something can show up. I have 20 fish running through a full treatment protocol and haven't seen any sign of any desease in weeks. The problem is that I know that there is risk that I cross contaminated. If I take the fish out of treatment and something is still in the water, then I've made a huge investment for nothing. Its hard, but should be attempted. Many - perhaps most - will just get lucky and cross contamination won't happen, but if you are trying to get that risk down as close to zero as possible, be prepared for an epic journey.
@@abcha0s this seems a bit extreme.. if you acquire a group of fish you only need one or two QT tanks which can be next to each other as they should be going through the same procedure at the same time. I use food grade plastic tubs with an air stone. Perhaps a heater if needed. Some PVC for holes. That’s it. No substrate or rocks for parasites to hide. Plastic tubs are cheap, un breakable and easy to clean and handle. As long as excess food is vacuumed with an air hose and tank transfers are done every 3 days I have never had ammonia problems but an alert badge is helpful. I use Seachem Stability to keep bacteria in the system. Always have extra tubs so you always have clean ones, it takes 10 mins to put the water in and transfer the fish into a pre cleaned tub. Easy and the fish get used to it very quickly. Just stagger fish and invert purchases so all QT can be done in the same place. Do corals OR fish not both. Should be no rush stocking anyway. It should not be necessary at all to have separate systems in separate rooms, just as long as the DT is separate from the QT.
This is a bit random.. but I saw a video the other day criticising Triton detox, and it turns out the guy hadn't followed the instructions properly. What worried me is the comments with "I'm so glad I saw this video - I won't ever use triton stuff", It reminded me of the crazy stuff you see sometimes about fresh water dips, microbubbling, etc etc . how about a video debunking the top 10 pieces of bro science? The hobby is full of crazy bad advice.
It's true that 76 days is likely longer than necessary. It's a pretty conservative amount of time based on studies that have been done over the years. That said, if we want to be as close to 100% sure as we can be, it's best to err on the side of caution.
Agreed, I get this approach makes sense for a trader in expensive fish. However, the average hobbyist typically dont have such high throughput of fish, so I really doubt whether this is the way to go at the hobbyist level.
I did have a brooklynella outbreak most likely once. Since them I keep new fish in quarantaine for 4 weeks at least, to get them adjusted to my food and waterparameters and reduce stress as much as possible. This way their immune system is as strong as possible before moving them to my display. Treating them with aggressive medicine is doing the exact opposite, I wouldn't do it, but I'm just an hobbyist not a fish vet 😂
That guy sounds like he’s ready to go to sleep lol 😂
Having gone this road I try to do any maintenance work on the display tank on a different day if I already done maintenance work on the fallow QT tank. It's a lot of work and I doubt the decision to go for parasite eradication more than any other... but having healthy fish and not needing to worry about them (at least in regards to parasites) makes it worth it for me 😊
Fantastic series, thank you all very much.
And that includes this one, though the term "aspirational goal" strongly comes to mind...
I'm going to try. I'm all in on total eradication. I have my first batch of fish coming through qt now. Display tank was torn down, completely rebuilt, seeded from a fishhless system and will now sit fallow at 82 degrees for 6 weeks before the fish go in. I definitely agree that this is not for the faint of heart and I think likely impossible for a biginner. The amount of cost, time and effort is enormous. I do believe that it can be done and I intend to succeed. I'm so committed to this that if something does manage to get through my qt process, I'm prepared to pull all the fish out and do it all again.
If you want a 10 year tank, this is the price you will pay.
But oh the tangs you can have if there is no desease in your tank. Oh the wrasse harams and schools of Anthias.
Imagine how great it would be if you didn't need to worry about desease management because there was verifiable no desease in your tank.
Yes. This is for me.
But oh man this is hard work.
My full time job is as a quarantine aquarist at a major public aquarium. I can assure you that it IS possible to eradicate most (95%) fish diseases in a properly set up quarantine system. Unfortunately once a fish harboring a disease enters an established reef (or even fish only ) display tank it becomes nearly impossible to eradicate the disease from that tank without removing all fish and inverts and nuking the system with a combination of chemical drugs, which typically will kill your bio filter. If you have a fish disease present in your reef tank the best option besides nuking it with medications is to ensure that your fish are eating nutritious and vitamin rich food and are experiencing as little stress as possible. Even if you remove all the fish from the system and properly quarantine them , they are exposed to the same illnesses as soon as they go back in a system where the rock and sand has been exposed to that illness. In the worst cases removing all fish and inverts , quarantining and treating them in a proper treatment system , and bleaching the display tank and rock may be necessary. There’s no point in quarantining a fish and then putting it back into a tank that’s contaminated.
So my question is for crabs and snails. Qt them in a fishless tank for 76 days? Or do I need to medicate them?
I’ve QT’ed all my fish so far, 30 day therapeutic copper, haven’t done any other treatments though, but have Prazi on hand in case I need it. I’ve bought all my inverts from a place that fully QTs all their fish, but have not QT’ed my coral. I hope and think you’ll get into the cost benefit ratio for all these approaches
So no sushi for dinner for 76 days also.
Point 8: It takes a lot of work :)
Well it's a hobby right? I like when it takes up some time :D
I'm going to start a new tank in 2 weeks, and I have a full quarantine tank setup in the garage, just one but I have also light for it. So when I go to the store I can only buy fish OR coral. Not both, but I can use the tank for both.
I had small tanks before and also a big tank (2.5 meter) and in the end I always ended up fighting problems (aiptasia, Asterina, bristle worms, diseases) I rather spend my time doing my hobby than fighting against problems. And i'm really aware it could still happen but rather minimize it or fight that battle in a quarantine system.
I'm all in on total eradication, and I'm going to take the effort
Hi Ryan, Elliot and brs crew, apparently my system has a very very special specimen-pineapple fish(Monocentris Japonica), it has ich, others does not shoe signs and everyone is eating like a pig. Here's the catch, pineapple fishes cannot be exposed in copper and a lot of commercial medication, it is unsuitable for QT . So it is a headache to beat ich in my tank. Forced to do management
I qt my shrimp but consider them good to go in my display once they have moulted, they are qt in a fishless system, is there any advantage to waiting 76 days?
Yes, even the smallest chance of a disease creeping into your dt should be avoided for the good of the livestock. If you have to ask if you should, always go towards caution. I would always suggest going over the suggested time of quarantine because most people telling you info in this hobby are not marine biologists or biologists of any kind. I personally do 2-4 month quarantines for all fish and inverts in fresh or salt, and all fish run threw a dip of copper/formalin 37%, then have a small amount of each in their quarantine along with a weekly dose of prazipro for internal parasites. Then before going into the dt 4 months later the salt water fish get a freshwater dip and the freshwater fish get a saltwater dip. Then into the dt they go after very softly padding both sides of them with a very soft cloth to get all former water off which i also suggest doing before they get dipped before quarantine as well it gets rid of water with hitch hikers. I even quarantine all my plants for 2 months incase of hitch hikers. Even with all this I consider a strong UV sterilizer in your sump or display necessary at all times.
How do you QT a fish like a sand sifting goby? Won’t it get stressed out in a bare bottom QT tank?
A lot of times, reefers will place a small bowl with sand in the QT tank for those species that do best with sand.
Reef tanks will never be truly manageable until there is a reef safe ich and velvet treatment, the average person won't set up two additional tanks to have a dt
This is really not as much work as it’s being made out to be. It’s no more work than running a second tank and making sure you don’t cross contaminate. It’s a lot LESS work than suddenly dealing with velvet which happened to me.
Generally I agree. It's a manageable amount of work for most people and should be embraced. I encourage everyone to attempt eradication. I am doing so.
The thing that people need to understand is where the risks lie and how to manage them. For most people, unfortunately including myself, there will always be some risk.
Its the cross contamination that is soooo hard to avoid. Ich and velvet can float 10 feet through the air. Anything wet can carry it. Maintaining separation at all times is bloody hard and expensive.
You really need a lot of tanks. Holding, treatment, and observation tanks. Plus at least 1 invert and one coral qt.
All spaced more than 10 feet apart.
And more tanks if you have to treat different fish with different medications.
To fully manage the risk you would need a dedicated fish room for each and every tank. That's rediculous even for me but without having that even the sink is a source of cross contamination.
You water mixing and storage need to be 10 feet away from all of the tanks in the qt system.
You need to stock a full medicine kit and be prepared for any possible threat. Shelf life and purity have to be considered. If either is off, treatment can appear to work and then weeks or months later something can show up.
I have 20 fish running through a full treatment protocol and haven't seen any sign of any desease in weeks. The problem is that I know that there is risk that I cross contaminated. If I take the fish out of treatment and something is still in the water, then I've made a huge investment for nothing.
Its hard, but should be attempted. Many - perhaps most - will just get lucky and cross contamination won't happen, but if you are trying to get that risk down as close to zero as possible, be prepared for an epic journey.
@@abcha0s this seems a bit extreme.. if you acquire a group of fish you only need one or two QT tanks which can be next to each other as they should be going through the same procedure at the same time. I use food grade plastic tubs with an air stone. Perhaps a heater if needed. Some PVC for holes. That’s it. No substrate or rocks for parasites to hide. Plastic tubs are cheap, un breakable and easy to clean and handle. As long as excess food is vacuumed with an air hose and tank transfers are done every 3 days I have never had ammonia problems but an alert badge is helpful. I use Seachem Stability to keep bacteria in the system. Always have extra tubs so you always have clean ones, it takes 10 mins to put the water in and transfer the fish into a pre cleaned tub. Easy and the fish get used to it very quickly.
Just stagger fish and invert purchases so all QT can be done in the same place. Do corals OR fish not both. Should be no rush stocking anyway. It should not be necessary at all to have separate systems in separate rooms, just as long as the DT is separate from the QT.
This is a bit random.. but I saw a video the other day criticising Triton detox, and it turns out the guy hadn't followed the instructions properly. What worried me is the comments with "I'm so glad I saw this video - I won't ever use triton stuff", It reminded me of the crazy stuff you see sometimes about fresh water dips, microbubbling, etc etc . how about a video debunking the top 10 pieces of bro science? The hobby is full of crazy bad advice.
Necessary information for hobbyists!
6-10 feet? I live in a two room apartment.
76 days is outdated. 6 weeks is more realistic can be even shorter at certain temperatures
It's true that 76 days is likely longer than necessary. It's a pretty conservative amount of time based on studies that have been done over the years. That said, if we want to be as close to 100% sure as we can be, it's best to err on the side of caution.
This is petty much overkill for any normal person
Agreed, I get this approach makes sense for a trader in expensive fish. However, the average hobbyist typically dont have such high throughput of fish, so I really doubt whether this is the way to go at the hobbyist level.
you haven't had velvet yet...?
I did have a brooklynella outbreak most likely once. Since them I keep new fish in quarantaine for 4 weeks at least, to get them adjusted to my food and waterparameters and reduce stress as much as possible. This way their immune system is as strong as possible before moving them to my display. Treating them with aggressive medicine is doing the exact opposite, I wouldn't do it, but I'm just an hobbyist not a fish vet 😂
Impossible ha
Parasites in food?