Thanks for finally settling this. Whether of not toilets ought to be caulked to the floor is a debate that had exercised scientists, philosophers and theologians for centuries!
I've set toilets in tile grout. Serves the same function as caulking. Works well if the tile is uneven. It is also much easier to remove when the toilet needs replacing.
I've always used Tile grout on the few I've replaced. Never seen a toilet Caulked in my 75 years. Caulk gets dirty over time. Grout looks new after years.
@@notthatronjohnson1187 Grout looks 100 times better. As long as the flange is correct it shouldn't be a problem. As a plumber, I've had contractors grout it down but I always leave the very back open in case of a leak ,you will see the water, instead of it destroying the floor and not knowing.
Long time plumber, you really don’t have to leave so much un caulked, just 1.5-2” would do it and usually you can’t see it then. Many toilets are not perfectly flat on the bottom, caulking it creates a base for it. Sanitary reasons are important. Honestly the only reason I can think of to not caulk it is it is a temporary set or it is always having to get pulled in which case there is another problem. The caulk also prevents other water like from a shower from getting under it.
I used to be a maintenance supervisor on a 100 unit property. The construction was shoddy at best. Caulking the toilet was a must since most floors were uneven. Like you said it adds incredible strength to securing the toilet to the floor. Oh I got amazing at caulking as some I've had to cover a half inch gap hahhaha.
I'm currently one of only two maintenance men ,for 115 buildings with some buildings up to 72 units! Some of the floors and the flanges are ridiculously bad, they went so far as to grout the toilets to the floor!! The place was built in 1971! Some have been leaking into the apartments ceiling below for decades!! I repair the drywall as well! Biggest problem I see ,other than un-level floors, is flanges too low barely touching bottom of toilet! And every time shut off valve needs to be replaced!
@@BigDaddy-zh2rc my biggest issue was opposite. The flange sat too high. So I had to cut out an entire wood base to match base of toilet then try to caulk basically an inch or more of space. Very fun indeed
100% do it all the time and if the install is solid you caulk it the next day to ensure no leaks. Not to mention the amount of Piss and dirt that goes under the flange is wild. Especially if you have to shim uneven floors, the silicone adds so much surface strength
I love your videos! The time you put in to give us a visual demonstration of how "this will do that" instead of just telling us. Anyone can understand after watching one of your videos! (And the info is more likely to stick in our brain!) What exceptionally quality content you create! Thank you for this channel and taking the time to educate us properly! (The humor is WONDERFUL also!)
You’re absolutely right. Using the blue died water to display how water funnels down the side of the bowl then directly under the toilet. Perfect way capture a visual for us.
Nice video. Frankly, I initially was skeptical. I'm glad you said check local codes. That's critical. I'm in the US and co-author a series of code reference books. The two primary MODEL codes in the US are the International Plumbing Code (IPC) and the Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC). These are called model codes because they are a starting point for a state or local jurisdiction. They may then adopt, make changes, etc. So even though both our model codes say to caulk the toilet - you still have to check with your state and local authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) to see what has been adopted/changed. In the IPC, the citation is 2705.1 #3. In the UPC, the citation is 402.2. I'm in California, which adopts the UPC with a bunch of changes as the CA Plumbing Code. This particular rule is adopted as written. However, the local AHJ may also make changes in CA, so it's still not for certain. In the SF Bay Area - where I live, no one (that I am aware of) has amended 402.2. I am a home inspector - so I try to pay attention to such stuff. lol Canada has their own National Building Code, and I believe there' are some significant differences between our I-Code (IBC, IRC, IPC, IMC, IEC/NEC) based codes and what you folks use up north in god's country. Oh, and I completely agree on the reasons to caulk. I personally leave a small gap at the rear - just in case. We have a lot of crawlspaces here. I see many bath sub-floors each year trashed due to leaking wax rings. Happy Holidays!
I looked up the Nov 2021 version of the 2018 IPC. 405.6 Water-tight joints. Joints formed where fixtures come in contact with walls or floors shall be sealed.
@@JesusProtects I laughed HARD at this. I was stunned that there is a code for this. What if I want to carpet my bathroom floor? (Gross, but still) I wouldn’t caulk the back, but would there be a code against caulking the front and sides? Nobody who grew up with brothers would make that rule. 😂
Plumber here In Minnesota, at least, it is code. However I tend to lean towards the technique he mentioned of leaving the back not caulked if an inspection isn’t happening for two of the reasons presented: Leak detection and service. Great video!
If you share the bathroom with people who don't understand how the shower curtain can keep water in the tub then caulking the toilet is very important. Overspray from the shower can flood the floor and depending which way water flows in your bathroom it can and will drain under the toilet. from under the toilet it is easy for the water to drain into the hole in the floor and eventually you will notice the ceiling under the bathroom looking real ugly. Ask me how I know and how much work it took to repair the headache. Additionally, the pex line for my toilet comes through the floor and it was not caullked when the place was built. Water loves to flow downhill and it will find openings.
This is a good video with a lot of valid points.. One thing is the flange should sit on top of the floor. Generally there are 4 holes in the flange to screw it down firmly. If a new floor has been added on top of the existing floor then you would have to use a thicker gasket. My experience as a plumber if the flange has been properly secured and the floor is level there’s very few problems. Sometimes you will find that the bowel is not perfectly flat on the bottom where it touches the floor. When this happens then you get into shimming , grouting or caulking to keep the toilet from moving around or rocking. Everybody has their own way of dealing with this problem. Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
Always shim before you caulk. Now a question. Which do you use hard shims or soft shims? I find sometimes a mix is nice or just soft shims all the way.
I prefer the soft shims. There really not soft but a plastic wedge that has grooves in it to cut it to the desired length. Replacing a toilet that has been installed for years can turn into a bit of a nightmare. Plumbing is a great trade but I’m happy to be retired.
@@repairitdontwreckit4257 I work mostly on houses from the 60s and 80s so I get that. Old broken flanges make me quite sad. But typically make my wallet happy.
Here in Finland, you can not puncture the mandatory vapour lock layer of the floor in "wet areas", so toilets are held in place only by silicone; sort of "glued" to the floor. No worry about it getting loose, after 30 + years both toilets are still firmly in place. The plumber said that if removal/replacement is needed, it is actually quite difficult to break it free; little by little with a screwdiver as a prybar and cutting the silicone caulking with a boxcutter.
@@UltraGamma25 , if glued to the floor with silicone , it would need an elephant to break it loose. The surface area is big enough, coupled with the flexible nature of the joint, it is hard to even replace if needed.
Sweden here! We use siliconeglue. Protected area (all bathroom is a wetzone and locked down with steam/water protected coatings that is not to be punctured) So no drilling in the floor that can make water find its way in to the structure. Also this is good for batchroms that has floorheating. No chance to puncture a pipe or electrical cord under there.
Thks for the video explaining this. I live in a self own appartment building, a cooperative building, and we hired a company to do a inspection of our building and the appartments. They mentionned this that according to them it isn't recommended to caulk the toilet. They said that it's because of the possible damage with water but I figured that people do caulk for a reason. I was searching why and I really liked your explanation of the pros and cons. I like your idea of caulking the toilet but leaving the back of it open. With that, we achieve the clean aspect of having caulk but still have a opening to see if there is water leaking.
I just had an incident with a caulked toilet that had its wax seal fail. It was in a ground floor bathroom on a slab foundation so the typical signs of a failing seal didn't emerge (e.g. a wobbling toilet or a soft floor). What ended up happening was that the water wicked through the concrete until it hit the wall behind the toilet and then wicked up the drywall. It took a while to realize what was happening and two different plumbers to figure out where the leak was. All in all, it ended up costing around $2,500 to repair and remediate. The plumber who fixed the toilet left the back uncaulked so it would be obvious if it happened again.
In the U.K. I think most toilets drain to the rear, so no flange required. Just fix to the floor with a couple of screws with plastic inserts to protect the ceramic. I seal round the bottom with silicon to hold it in place and prevent water ingress underneath, particularly on a tiled surface which is likely to be mopped clean (eg an en suite), but also on floorboards just to hold it securely.
Those flanges do look like an odd idea compared to our pan connectors. Butting things together with wax? Siliconing the pan to the floor has almost become essential with the new plastic L bracket system. I don't think I've ever fitted one that felt nice and solid before that bead of silicone was done. I've found loads of those toilets that have been fitted with the floor fixings just screwed or siliconed in place to cover the screw holes. The best old loos had four screw holes pointing at the floor. Such a novel idea!
Absolutely correct! Caulk the front and sides and leave the back open, I use translucent caulk so the white transition isn’t as jarring if you do get some where you don’t want it
The old school method of securing a toilet was to set it in plaster. Thats the way i was taught and ive done dozens of toilets with that method and it works great to hold the toilet in place but also comes off with some wiggling if you need to remove it.
I worked as a plumber for many years in British Columbia mostly installing hotel bathrooms so I've installed literally thousands of wax seals. Then 20 years ago I moved to Italy- what a revelation! There are no wax seals used in any European countries just a silicone rubber sleeve with internal and external kind of soft lips where external lips seal between the sleeve and the wastepipe and the upper internal lips seal the sleeve around the ceramic spigot that protrudes under the toilet. It's a brilliant system, very hard to get it wrong, no sticky-assed wax nonsense, no weak plastic flange. Man o man when you work with the stuff here you realise how the whole of north America is still in the dark ages plumbing-wise.
I'm in BC and couldn't agree more. Been a builder for 25 years and have seen some crazy damage from plumbing leaks. When we reno'd our house a couple of years ago I forgot to tell the plumber to use foam gaskets. They used wax. All three toilets leaked. I still see plumbers using putty on tub and sink drains for christ's sake!
How interesting that this randomly crossed my feed. I've actually been having a problem with the toilet in my apartment recently. The caulking around the bottom broke down and it started to leak. I thought the leaking was caused by the caulk failing and was going to just fix that up myself. But if I'm understanding this correctly it seems more likely that the caulk breakdown was caused by the leaking and simply replacing the caulking wouldn't fix this. So I should probably just get maintenance to look at it 😂
That leak is soaking into your floor and perhaps eating a hole through the ceiling of the unit below. Who knows how long it's been doing this? This is not clean water. Contact maintenance immediately.
I'm not a contractor, but as far as I'm aware just about every household toilet uses a wax or rubber ring to seal the toilet's drain to the pipes. It should never reach the caulking.
Been a plumber for decades. I always caulk it but leave the back just in case. I almost exclusively use clear unless it's a white toilet on white tile with white grout. International Plumbing Code in the US requires them to be caulked. Many places in the US don't use IPC so your milage may very.
Your videos are professional ! Love the visual example when explaining potential problem such as wax seal breaking, fluid ingress, etc. That makes you a better RUclipsr than the average Joe and made me write this review. Keep it up !
My wife and I just went through this, though there was a leaky valve at the water hookup that - in the time it took me to fix it - allowed a good amount of water onto the floor. I hadn't caulked the toilet yet, so that water went through the floor around the flange and damaged/discolored the ceiling on the floor below the toilet. Thank you for the much-needed reminder and advice to plan for fluids outside your toilet, not just inside. :-) Keep the stellar content coming, and thanks for being a kind, relatable DIYer.
I'm in the habit of caulking the flange to the flooring. That way, if you do have a leak, it won't get to the subflooring/underlayment and lead to rot. Granted, when you replace the finish flooring, you'll have to do some scraping, but I think it's a good trade-off. This video is the first one I've seen that gives what I consider a good reason (2 actually) for caulking, the "seeping under" issue and using the caulk as an adhesive to keep motion from damaging the wax ring. "Hygiene" is the usual reason, but this video actually explains how caulking improves hygiene. I agree with leaving the back uncaulked, so you get some warning of a leak.
Previous owners caulked the toilet to the floor. Slow leak invisibly destroyed the tile floor, two linoleum floors under that, and the original hardwood floor under that (old house). We didn't notice anything wrong until tiles started coming loose when stepped on. Mold everywhere; lucky we were able to save the subfloor.
In sweden we have moisture barriers in all wet rooms, basically a plastic sheet behind all walls and floors in rooms or areas with running water. If you puncture it, your insurance company will not be happy.
Perfect explanation of both sides of the argument. One other note if the seal is broken it is my experience you will only smell sewer gas when the good wind blows across the vent on the roof and draws the gases up the sewer pipe. the trap is in the toilet so it comes out the broken seal of the wax ring. I now use waxless rings.
I do camera inspections for interior and exterior plumbing and often have to remove / install toilets weekly. I’ve seen water damage from leaky toilets where the toilet has been caulked completely. Also, I agree that the best strategy for caulking is to do the sides and front but leave the back open. But, I typically never caulk a toilet unless the customer requests it. My reasoning is that the mark of a good toilet install is to know that you set it balanced and true with proper securing by means of booting it down. (Assuming you have a flat solid surface and a proper flange of course). Always double boot the toilet down. Set it true and level and if you do have a gap then yes, caulk for a clean look. Or as I mentioned, if the customer requests it.
Flagstaff, Arizona (USA) here. I recently replaced both toilets in our house and didn't even consider caulking the bases. Our house has a crawl space; the toilets sit on LVP on top of the plywood subfloor, and there is a significant gap around each flange. Water that seeps under the base will pour onto the dirt of the crawl space (about 5 feet below the subfloor). There is a rather tight fit between the toilets and the LVP, but liquids that make it through there drain away readily. So... the original toilets were not caulked either. They had been removed once before to remove the vinyl tile (shudder!) and put the LVP down. Over the 36 years of the home's history there was no visible ingress of liquid from the bathroom floors, but the second flange was barely up to the floor level, so the single wax seal had leaked badly into the crawl space. Can't win for losing.
I've been a plumber for 6 months now. It takes me about 2 minutes to look perfect. I enjoy caulking; because I enjoy making things look just exactly perfect...
I've been doing renovations for over 30 years. Quite some time ago I was going to change the flooring, vanity cabinet, and toilet on one job and noticed the toilet was caulked to the floor. This was the first time I had seen this. I didn't think anything about it, but just started to loosen the bolts and cut away the caulking. That's when the crap and liquid started oozing out. There was faeces on the floor now. I suppose the person that installed the toilet didn't have a good seal on the flange and figured the caulking would would solve the problem. What a God awful mess. Since then, if I see a toilet caulked to the floor, I refuse the job.
When I originally caulked mine at the floor I left the back open but I ended up caulking it because the toilet is on the ground floor in a house with no basement so it's a concrete slab. If there were vapors or fluid leaking out you wouldn't know it and it wouldn't harm you if you have water in the bowl, which you should, and you have the caulk sealed properly. The vapors would have nowhere to go and essentially the underneath of the toilet would just become an extension of the drain pipe.
Working in home maintenance, I always use an extra wax ring and a putty knife to seal around the flange. Cut off chunks of wax and trowel it down into any holes and gaps around the flange, filling flush with the floor surface. This prevents any leaking from seeping under the floor and ruining the ceiling below. If you chose to caulk, leave a small uncaulked spot on the down slope side of the toilet where water can exit to signal a leak if it develops. Most floors are not entirely level. On the rare case where it's level, I leave the back open for appearance sake.
Master plumber here, I've been doing this for years! I always fill the voids around the flange up with wax before installing a new ring. I always caulk around the front of the toilet from bolt to bolt, leave the back open to make sure there's no leaks.
It's better to use the side notches than the standard big long slot. You just have to be a bit more precise when setting the flange, much stronger though and worth the effort. I caulk the front and sides, even though code says it needs to be completely sealed. The inspectors generally agree that it's better to leave a gap for any leaks to seep out and be noticed before it creates deeper damage to the structure.
There are a good amout of fellows that do what I do in all the bathroom I have redone including bathrooms for my own family and friends set a toilet in thinset. It stays stable and never rocks which breaks many seal over time. I love it.
I was a maintenance supervisor for 600+ houses and have 30 years of plumbing experience. I have documented MANY cases of leaks forming under calked toilets and rotting out the floor without the owner or tenant knowing it. I also saw MANY times where the toilet was not calked and the leak was noticed. I also always seal the flange to the finished floor to encourage the leak to flow out so it can be seen. NEVER seal your toilet to the floor!
If you have a tile floor, use the same color of grout to set the toilet. Cement grout is perfect between two ceramic surfaces. You set the toilet onto the wet grout, letting it squish out the sides. Finish with a sponge and when it dries you have a nice solid base for your toilet, it will never rock. Grout that is finished correctly will not transfer liquids very readily.
I'm a 40+ year plumber...caulk is inferior to sanded grout and with the grout, there is no danger that it contains a leak under it and you never need to shim it use colored caulk to match the toilet or floor color work it in under the edge with a gloved finger clean it up with a grout sponge leave out of service 8-12 hrs perfect job!
We’re required to caulk them where I’m at. If it’s an upstairs or pier and beam, I’ll leave that gap. The thing I would recommend to change though the plastic flange. I’ve seen too many toilets come loose because a plastic flange broke. They make them with a metal ring. Just make sure you get one with a stainless ring. If the metal is painted don’t get it. It’s most likely pot metal and about as good as plastic. If I’m in a situation where a plastic flange is the only option. Some supply houses are limited on stainless closet flanges. One location doesn’t have the inside 3” flange in anything but plastic. So when I’m in this situation, I screw a metal repair ring over the top of it.
Amazon is your friend. I never cease to be amazed what one Home Depot will carry and another not only doesn't carry, but their associates will insist it's wrongheaded and probably leads to immorality, baldness and cancer.
@@ethelryan257 I’m referring to plumbing supply houses not Home Depot. I usually don’t have time to order from Amazon. Also Amazon and Home Depot are too expensive. I get parts from the plumbing supply house pretty much at cost and then mark it up. I’ll use Amazon sometimes to order specialty parts and occasionally use home depot in a pinch but I’d make a lot less money if I shopped there regularly
45 years ago I worked in the flooring trade. Often, cheap home owners did not want to pay a plumber or me to pull and reset the toilet. What I should have been done was refuse to install the vinyl. (Young, innocent) Instead the vinyl was cut around the toilet ( patterned not free hand cut) leaving a seam at the back. The toilet would be caulked, but still not an ideal install.
@@TheFunnyCarpenter Oh, yes. Two flags which lead to me not bidding. 1) "Hell no, we won't have you pulling permits. We don' need no gubmint in my house #$%^&*@! 2) "I want the cheapest solution, I'm selling it and it's not my problem. Don't care if it's right as long as it looks OK. You say either to me, and you're off to my competitors. Not risking my license or people's lives for your 'I've got mine, eff you!' mentality. Funny, it also eliminates just about all nasty, unpleasant and generally rude customers, too.
Great video and good on you for showing the pros and cons. I always calk the toilet, on the sides and front, while leaving the back open. I use Phenoseal which is a waterproof adhesive caulk that cleans up with water. That way, the toilet is secured and sealed, and getting a good finish is as easy as following up with a damp sponge.
This is a great video you explained to people all the misconceptions they have about flooring all the way to the flange the flange on top of flooring and the big one where they think the wax ring is for water it's main reason is for sewer gases
I worked in a high end hotel. We never caulked it to the floor. The problem was, if there was a leak from the wax seal, we often wouldn't realize it until it was too late, with water damage to the ceiling in the room below. Then, the damaged room would end up out of service while the water stain got repaired.
Well, highend Hotel with substandard workmanship and material. Fastening with silicone only, worked i whole Europe for 15-20 years and still do... No screws needed and not permitted.
As a code geek, the UPC (402.2) requires that all plumbing fixtures be completely caulked watertight. This is a public health issue which trumps any other reason.
Timing is everything: I wish my need for caulk and caulking guns had arisen after your two videos instead of a year before. Of course I bought the wrong kind of gun, and of course I bought the wrong type of caulk for sealing my tub (pure acrylic, and it's a mess now). I hate having to do a job twice, but Oh Well. Thanks for the videos: you and a couple of others on RUclips have been an enormous help to a later-in-life homeowner who never had to learn anything about home maintenance and repair except the superintendent's phone number.
The more times you do it the more you learn and improve your skills. You'll have person pride in your expert abilities. Let's hear it for agcons . . . 👏👏👏
I just got a rare call back, home owner adamantly refused caulk at the base, warned him of the issues but nope. I'm now gutting his (new) floor to replace the rotting sub floor, caused by condensation dripping off the tank, a dog water bowl, and kids that can't keep the water in the tub. What a grand and expensive mess that is, so easily avoided by simply caulking down the toilet, which is required under the national pllumbing code, used in my town. Of the hundereds of bathroom remods I've done, I have never once seen an issue from caulking a toilet.
I worked in the building and facilities department of a fairly large city for 41 years. I removed and replaced or reinstalled thousands of toilets. I always caulked them, all the way around. I liked the idea, and so did the janitors. It made it so much easier to keep things clean. Also, when you need to shim a toilet, which is actually quite often, the caulk actually becomes a perfectly fitted shim itself once it dries. I use siliconized acrylic caulk, not pure silicone. It dries harder, and is extremely water resistant once dry. And when you need to remove a toilet that has been caulked, just take a sharp hook knife and zip around it. Once removed, it is very easy to scrape siliconized acrylic caulk (I always used Alex Plus) off the floor and the base of the toilet if you are going to reinstall the toilet. The biggest problems with toilets unfortunately comes from modern developments. Sewer plumbing in older buildings was iron, and so was the flange that toilets bolted to. The flanges were held in place with a lead ring, which was poured in when the lead was molten. Then they outlawed the use of lead in plumbing. Then they started using ABS plastic sewer drains, which meant ABS toilet flanges, which simply would not hold a toilet in place. Caulking it helped a lot. Then came the low water use toilets, another super dumb idea. We had to remove every single one of our toilets (hundreds of them) and replace them with the new 1.5 gallon per flush toilets, which resulted in having to hire a couple more people to do nothing but go around unstopping toilets, because 1.5 gallons is simply not enough water to properly flush a toilet. Then came the pressure assisted flushing systems, and all the toilets got replaced again. But those were constantly failing, and were very expensive to replace. Oh well, it was only taxpayer money being wasted. You still can't beat an old school toilet. That's what I have in my house, and I have 3 more that I brought home from work that I acid washed, and they look brand new. I'm keeping them as replacements in case something happens to the one currently in use in my house. Oh, and I also removed the restrictors from my faucets and shower head.
I love the phrase: "get medieval". Earned a subscribe just for that. Love the explanation and the work by the way, I'm a huge DIY guy so I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Every toilet I have installed.....and I have done at least 10...have a curved ceramic spout that extends about 3/8 from the ceramic base down into the toilet flange. The one he flipped over didn't appear to have that. Not sure why. Because of that thing, there is no need to caulk around it. I have pulled toilets off of floors in 50+ year old rentals. They were nasty but I have never encountered one that smells like a urinal room. Urine does also not have the viscosity of blue toilet bowl cleaner and will not run down the side like that. Also, if you install a toilet right, it does not flop around like that. Never heard of using shims. There are, however , adapters available that fit right over the flange to make it flush with, say newly installed flooring. Call me right or wrong, but this is what I know because of what I have done.
Not necessarily. Try caulking on a floor with 1” tiles. I put down masking tape for these but it still never looks good. The only way to make it look really good is to caulk it them come back the next day and cut it evenly and scrape the grout lines
My brother, who is a master plumber does that. He does caulk the toilet, leaving a 4-5cm gap at the back. He says it's the best compromise between an early warning that there is a problem and dealing with the idiots who think you MUST caulk the toilet into place. My company (electrical) does a lot of repairs/updating after home inspection. I usually get the entire inspector's report (actually, I won't bid without it, I hate 'hidden defects' and that one is always called by the idiot home inspectors. They have no real education or knowledge, just a Holiday Inn weekend course and lots of arrogance.
You gave many good reasons to caulk it and not one good reason not to. Also having sewer gasses able to just waft into your bathroom, where you might have a gas water heater with a pilot light is an incredibly bad idea, trapping the gas under the toilet and in the sewer pipes is 1000% better than letting it run into your house. Not to mention the smell, and the roaches crawling up out of the sewer and into your house.
@@nickk05281982 IF you catch it before it's a problem, It should be a wax ring seal and if sealed in proper can last decades. Took up the toilet in my moms house which we put down 25 years ago and and the wax ring was still in good shape. Took up the toilet in my current house which had been down no more than 7 years and it was almost gone, because it wasn't sealed in and dried out.
@@HisboiLRoi Most but not all and there are many that are grandfathered in. Even in a closet outside the bathroom it can still be affected by gas which is heavier than air and creeps under doors etc. Better safe than very very sorry.
In many countries, external, flexible drain pipe is attached from the back of the toilet (not under it like in your video), which allows servicing or replacement without the need to remove the heavy toilet itself.
Great video, you explained both sides of the the senerios. I like the your recommendation of not chaulking the underside towards the back wall section.
HA! I was with you on the two reasons to caulk but couldn't imagine what the reasons not were!?! Living in Florida, I never even considered a toilet leak being a huge issue...we almost all have single story, concrete slab construction and most have tile floors...nothing about a leak is a big deal (well, in terms of rot, etc).
I just installed two new toilets, and used a ribbon of good old fashioned Plumber’s Putty. The biggest downside (if you can call it that) is that it takes a couple days to fully seat, and every day is another turn on each nut until it stops settling, and then just cut the excess with a razor,
I like the compromise of leaving the back open. I flip houses for a living and have ran across a caulked toilet that leaked. The toilet was about to fall through the floor and I had to completely remove the flooring/decking in the entire bathroom down to the floor joists and start over. It got a little into one of the bedrooms, but it was just water staining and no real damage. Thankfully the floor joists were still solid as well.
I'm a builder in Minnesota I've had a couple inspectors check to see if the toilet is caulked. I personally think it's good to caulk and leave a small cap. This way the toilet is more solid and less of a chance of the wax ring losing it's seal. Also if u miss it creates bacteria under the toilet. I know my plumber uses small little squeeze tubes because they can get in small areas and leaves a very nice small bead without taping it.
I do lots of reno's and if a toilet is tightened down properly it will never move. Silicone makes the job look sloppy and over time it gets mildew. The biggest reason I don't caulk them is if I ever have to replace the toilet they are never the same shape and depending on the flooring you will not always be able to remove the old silicone line.
I like chalking the toilet and leaving a 3 inch gap on the backside. Use a wallpaper scraper with a 4 inch blade to loosen the old chalk, best tool ever. Every homeowner I have introduced this tool to and the amazing number of uses, told me afterwards they cannot imagine doing without one.
I say make a seal with a genuine wax (non-funnel). Make certain it is anchored solid to the floor with the closet bolts, then caulk the toilet to the floor but do NOT caulk all the way around the back. Leave the the back open, so if the wax seal breaks it dumps on the flor
Nice, but here is a hint. Do not use silicon caulk, use a mastic cement. This will change color and seep if their is a leak, but will still hold the toiler secure.
Truer words were never spoken about those toilet bolts! The location and design works but it sucks from my limited engineering view and I never feel good about them when I install a toilet.
That suggestion on caulk but leave the back area uncalked to allow for gases or leaks seems to give you the best of both worlds. Better stability, less likely to tear the wax seal, a spot for internal issues, and a spot to start cutting the caulk easily if removal is needed. Nice thought
I have seen quite a few toilets that leak onto the finished floor. But the real issue for me is the subfloor rotting. I have also seen this quite often,so I’m not sure about how effective leaving the back open is. Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part,but I hope the water would show up at the back. So I do what you did and lave the back open.
Great advice. I installed a toilet one, and it turn out there was a hairline crack inside, not visible but it ony became active every flush. The bathroom floor was sloped, so a small quantity of water would pool at the low end of the bathroom, it took ages for me to figure out what was going on. I had silicone sealed or 'caulked' as you would say around the toilet but left the back open basically because it was too difficult to do, and I was lazy. Its easy to cut through when removing the toilet, just a box cutter flush to the floor with the blade extended
Well i was a professional caulker/sealer on industrial and residential development here in Australia and every toilet that was floor mounted had to be caulked according to code. The caulk keeps dirt and bacteria out from getting in the gap and it gives the overall finish a nice look,plus it adheres the toilet to the floor. The down side is if the toilet ever needs to be replaced its more work to remove the toilet.
Set the toilet base on a bed of grout that matches your tile. It evens the floor so the toilet will never rock and you’ll never need to worry about your wax ring losing a seal.
That's a great compromise to caulk the front half of the toilet and leave the back half open. I recently had to have extensive repairs where a toilet that was caulked in all the way around had a leak that ran under the finished floor to the walls and black water was absorbed by the drywall. I'm not sure if changing how the toilet was caulked to begin with would have changed the outcome, but I imagine that it would have been easier to track down the source of the leak.
I have to caulk the toilet since the kids spill water out of the tub. I actually have a drain in the bathroom floor four just in case and the drain just goes to the basement to the drain in the basement. So I caulk the toilet all the way around and then near the flange I drill a hole through the floor so if it does leak the fluid will be noticed immediately. I also seal the floor with polyurethane so the floor does not soak up any of the water that is leaked. Very good video including the special effects props
To caulk, or not to caulk. I've done both. And when I did caulk, I did the exact same thing with leaving a section at the back open. Floor mounts and wall mounts. Some of those wall mounts don't get cleaned thoroughly underneath.
i was the maintenance manager for a large retirement home and our insurance company made it mandatory for all toilets above the 1st flood to be caulked to prevent overflows causing flood damage. a minor leak in a bathroom can cause major damage. the chances of an internal leak is a myth. it will go straight through unless you are on ground level.
My biggest reason TO caulk the toilet to the floor is to prevent leakage to the room below in case of overflows. It will keep the mess on the floor of the bathroom...not in the kitchen below.
I used to use a proprietary gasket in the years before I retired - it adhered to the horn and underside of the bowl, and went down the pipe a good 1½. If you are relying solely on the flange and bolts, there's a good chance that the toilet will rock and ultimately break a wax seal - I would caulk automatically, shimming if needs be. If someone is not careful, they could tighten down the bowl too much - there's no point in backing off the nut once you've broken the base - so the minutest of play can be overcome by any shimming, and caulking. Also, it would be my choice to keep the flange sitting on top of the finished floor wherever that's possible - although that could probably, but rarely, will squeeze the wax seal too much. In your video, I would pack the flange up with the appropriate extender. In your instance, right now, I'd squash some wax into the gap between the floor and flange, or fill it with caulk, to stop liquids penetrating the subfloor. Although you didn't say as much - have odours escape is a good way to tell you your gasket has failed... time to renew. A great tip here:- if you've a flood in the house, the lowest point is often the downstairs toilet. Remove it...!
Good explanations. I am for the old fashioned way of " no calking" My mother had her bathroom redone and even though it was not used much a leak developed at the wax ring. The water soaked under the tile long before being discovered. 6 times the amount of work to change a cheap wax ring plus fix the damage. If this were on a second story I can only imagine the toilet and a person ending up on the first floor in a very quick and loud manner .
Back in the 1970's, I was a maintenance mechanic for a low income apartment complex with about 1000 units in it. Some person before me caulked all the toilets to the floor. The bath tubs had a drain plug with a long extension with henges which worked up the overflow pipe and hooked to a lever that allowed the tub drain to be closed. At least once a week some little kid or other in the complex would have pulled out the stopper from the tub and dropped it down the toilette. The only way to remove it was to take the toilette up, hold it upside down and shake it until the stopper fell out. If the toilets hadn't been caulked, that would have taken about 10 to 15 minutes. As it was it took over an hour to remove all the caulk and in the process I broke about one toilette every couple of months. The caulk also looked terrible.
As a contractor I default to not sealing the units to floors. It does provide the ability to detect a leak if it occurs…situations do dictate if it is warranted, but as a rule no, and I only use clear!
I've been a CM for a long time and worked for several large builders. We would caulk the front and sides and leave the back open. Good video.
"CM", a bum.
Yep...I agree
what's a CM?
@@rmat9023 Construction manager?
@@rmat9023 Construction Manager
Excellent advice. As a former plumber, I always caulked the toilet to the floor leaving a gap at the back.
Most people do because no one cares enough to reach behind one with a wall and other things in the way 😂
Why dont you caulk the back?
@@clapforboobies5892 because if your toilet leaks it will leak out the back instead of through the floor or just filling up the negative space
@@clapforboobies5892 To keep water from being trapped.
Thanks for finally settling this. Whether of not toilets ought to be caulked to the floor is a debate that had exercised scientists, philosophers and theologians for centuries!
I was unaware how contentious this was until I posted a video about how to do the caulking l!
The biggest reason for me not to caulk my toilet to the floor is, it would take way to much caulk to caulk my wall-mounted toilet to the floor.
Fair enough
Where there's a will, there's a way.
🤣
That's what spray foam is for.
lol that would be alot
I've set toilets in tile grout. Serves the same function as caulking. Works well if the tile is uneven. It is also much easier to remove when the toilet needs replacing.
I've always used Tile grout on the few I've replaced. Never seen a toilet Caulked in my 75 years. Caulk gets dirty over time. Grout looks new after years.
@@notthatronjohnson1187 Grout looks 100 times better. As long as the flange is correct it shouldn't be a problem.
As a plumber, I've had contractors grout it down but I always leave the very back open in case of a leak ,you will see the water, instead of it destroying the floor and not knowing.
Long time plumber, you really don’t have to leave so much un caulked, just 1.5-2” would do it and usually you can’t see it then. Many toilets are not perfectly flat on the bottom, caulking it creates a base for it. Sanitary reasons are important. Honestly the only reason I can think of to not caulk it is it is a temporary set or it is always having to get pulled in which case there is another problem. The caulk also prevents other water like from a shower from getting under it.
Like having to pull the toilet to snake cause a blockage is in the trap arm.
I used to be a maintenance supervisor on a 100 unit property. The construction was shoddy at best. Caulking the toilet was a must since most floors were uneven. Like you said it adds incredible strength to securing the toilet to the floor. Oh I got amazing at caulking as some I've had to cover a half inch gap hahhaha.
If the floors uneven you definitely want to shim the toilet too.
I'm currently one of only two maintenance men ,for 115 buildings with some buildings up to 72 units! Some of the floors and the flanges are ridiculously bad, they went so far as to grout the toilets to the floor!! The place was built in 1971! Some have been leaking into the apartments ceiling below for decades!! I repair the drywall as well! Biggest problem I see ,other than un-level floors, is flanges too low barely touching bottom of toilet! And every time shut off valve needs to be replaced!
@@BigDaddy-zh2rc my biggest issue was opposite. The flange sat too high. So I had to cut out an entire wood base to match base of toilet then try to caulk basically an inch or more of space. Very fun indeed
these days the toilets are of such poor quality the bottom is often uneven also
100% do it all the time and if the install is solid you caulk it the next day to ensure no leaks. Not to mention the amount of Piss and dirt that goes under the flange is wild. Especially if you have to shim uneven floors, the silicone adds so much surface strength
I love your videos! The time you put in to give us a visual demonstration of how "this will do that" instead of just telling us. Anyone can understand after watching one of your videos! (And the info is more likely to stick in our brain!)
What exceptionally quality content you create! Thank you for this channel and taking the time to educate us properly! (The humor is WONDERFUL also!)
Very kind of you to say, thank you!🍻
You’re absolutely right. Using the blue died water to display how water funnels down the side of the bowl then directly under the toilet. Perfect way capture a visual for us.
Like others have said… great use of close-ups and examples while you are teaching. And very diplomatic in your opinions. Well done.
Nice video. Frankly, I initially was skeptical. I'm glad you said check local codes. That's critical. I'm in the US and co-author a series of code reference books. The two primary MODEL codes in the US are the International Plumbing Code (IPC) and the Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC). These are called model codes because they are a starting point for a state or local jurisdiction. They may then adopt, make changes, etc. So even though both our model codes say to caulk the toilet - you still have to check with your state and local authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) to see what has been adopted/changed.
In the IPC, the citation is 2705.1 #3. In the UPC, the citation is 402.2.
I'm in California, which adopts the UPC with a bunch of changes as the CA Plumbing Code. This particular rule is adopted as written. However, the local AHJ may also make changes in CA, so it's still not for certain. In the SF Bay Area - where I live, no one (that I am aware of) has amended 402.2. I am a home inspector - so I try to pay attention to such stuff. lol
Canada has their own National Building Code, and I believe there' are some significant differences between our I-Code (IBC, IRC, IPC, IMC, IEC/NEC) based codes and what you folks use up north in god's country. Oh, and I completely agree on the reasons to caulk. I personally leave a small gap at the rear - just in case. We have a lot of crawlspaces here. I see many bath sub-floors each year trashed due to leaking wax rings.
Happy Holidays!
I looked up the Nov 2021 version of the 2018 IPC.
405.6 Water-tight joints.
Joints formed where fixtures come in contact with walls or floors shall be sealed.
This is ridiculous.
@@JesusProtects I laughed HARD at this. I was stunned that there is a code for this. What if I want to carpet my bathroom floor? (Gross, but still) I wouldn’t caulk the back, but would there be a code against caulking the front and sides? Nobody who grew up with brothers would make that rule. 😂
People who could do this fascinate me. It seems so tedious.
Great details, and also a great reason to NOT USE WAX RINGS! Their durability is terrible, and alternatives are more than affordable!
Plumber here
In Minnesota, at least, it is code.
However I tend to lean towards the technique he mentioned of leaving the back not caulked if an inspection isn’t happening for two of the reasons presented:
Leak detection and service.
Great video!
Caulk after 2 weeks of usage and do clean the contact surface is the best.
If you share the bathroom with people who don't understand how the shower curtain can keep water in the tub then caulking the toilet is very important. Overspray from the shower can flood the floor and depending which way water flows in your bathroom it can and will drain under the toilet. from under the toilet it is easy for the water to drain into the hole in the floor and eventually you will notice the ceiling under the bathroom looking real ugly. Ask me how I know and how much work it took to repair the headache. Additionally, the pex line for my toilet comes through the floor and it was not caullked when the place was built. Water loves to flow downhill and it will find openings.
I can vouch for that. My teenage son ruined the first floor ceiling that way. Toilet was caulked with a gap in the back, now it's all the way around.
This is a good video with a lot of valid points.. One thing is the flange should sit on top of the floor. Generally there are 4 holes in the flange to screw it down firmly. If a new floor has been added on top of the existing floor then you would have to use a thicker gasket. My experience as a plumber if the flange has been properly secured and the floor is level there’s very few problems. Sometimes you will find that the bowel is not perfectly flat on the bottom where it touches the floor. When this happens then you get into shimming , grouting or caulking to keep the toilet from moving around or rocking. Everybody has their own way of dealing with this problem. Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
Always shim before you caulk. Now a question. Which do you use hard shims or soft shims? I find sometimes a mix is nice or just soft shims all the way.
I prefer the soft shims. There really not soft but a plastic wedge that has grooves in it to cut it to the desired length. Replacing a toilet that has been installed for years can turn into a bit of a nightmare. Plumbing is a great trade but I’m happy to be retired.
@@repairitdontwreckit4257 I work mostly on houses from the 60s and 80s so I get that. Old broken flanges make me quite sad. But typically make my wallet happy.
Plumbers in my area would often use a foundling wax ring to seal low flanges or unevenness in the floor.
If your bowel is touching the floor, you have bigger problems than a leaky gasket. Get a colonoscopy, stat!
Here in Finland, you can not puncture the mandatory vapour lock layer of the floor in "wet areas", so toilets are held in place only by silicone; sort of "glued" to the floor. No worry about it getting loose, after 30 + years both toilets are still firmly in place. The plumber said that if removal/replacement is needed, it is actually quite difficult to break it free; little by little with a screwdiver as a prybar and cutting the silicone caulking with a boxcutter.
Unless overweight people use that toilet.
@@UltraGamma25 , if glued to the floor with silicone , it would need an elephant to break it loose. The surface area is big enough, coupled with the flexible nature of the joint, it is hard to even replace if needed.
@@UltraGamma25 it's finland so they dont have that problem
In China toilets also don't have bolts
No, it's not hard at all. He was full of s...
Sweden here! We use siliconeglue. Protected area (all bathroom is a wetzone and locked down with steam/water protected coatings that is not to be punctured) So no drilling in the floor that can make water find its way in to the structure. Also this is good for batchroms that has floorheating. No chance to puncture a pipe or electrical cord under there.
Thks for the video explaining this. I live in a self own appartment building, a cooperative building, and we hired a company to do a inspection of our building and the appartments. They mentionned this that according to them it isn't recommended to caulk the toilet. They said that it's because of the possible damage with water but I figured that people do caulk for a reason. I was searching why and I really liked your explanation of the pros and cons. I like your idea of caulking the toilet but leaving the back of it open. With that, we achieve the clean aspect of having caulk but still have a opening to see if there is water leaking.
Ya that’s dumb on their part. Never seen a plumber around here that does anything different than what this guy did in the video.
I just had an incident with a caulked toilet that had its wax seal fail. It was in a ground floor bathroom on a slab foundation so the typical signs of a failing seal didn't emerge (e.g. a wobbling toilet or a soft floor). What ended up happening was that the water wicked through the concrete until it hit the wall behind the toilet and then wicked up the drywall. It took a while to realize what was happening and two different plumbers to figure out where the leak was. All in all, it ended up costing around $2,500 to repair and remediate. The plumber who fixed the toilet left the back uncaulked so it would be obvious if it happened again.
In the U.K. I think most toilets drain to the rear, so no flange required. Just fix to the floor with a couple of screws with plastic inserts to protect the ceramic. I seal round the bottom with silicon to hold it in place and prevent water ingress underneath, particularly on a tiled surface which is likely to be mopped clean (eg an en suite), but also on floorboards just to hold it securely.
Those flanges do look like an odd idea compared to our pan connectors.
Butting things together with wax?
Siliconing the pan to the floor has almost become essential with the new plastic L bracket system. I don't think I've ever fitted one that felt nice and solid before that bead of silicone was done.
I've found loads of those toilets that have been fitted with the floor fixings just screwed or siliconed in place to cover the screw holes.
The best old loos had four screw holes pointing at the floor. Such a novel idea!
" I seal round the bottom with silicon " oh matron
@@derek-press Only works for the ballcock type system.
Absolutely correct! Caulk the front and sides and leave the back open, I use translucent caulk so the white transition isn’t as jarring if you do get some where you don’t want it
Made that mistake once doing some toilets in a mall. Clear is the way.
Right 👍
The old school method of securing a toilet was to set it in plaster. Thats the way i was taught and ive done dozens of toilets with that method and it works great to hold the toilet in place but also comes off with some wiggling if you need to remove it.
I worked as a plumber for many years in British Columbia mostly installing hotel bathrooms so I've installed literally thousands of wax seals. Then 20 years ago I moved to Italy- what a revelation! There are no wax seals used in any European countries just a silicone rubber sleeve with internal and external kind of soft lips where external lips seal between the sleeve and the wastepipe and the upper internal lips seal the sleeve around the ceramic spigot that protrudes under the toilet. It's a brilliant system, very hard to get it wrong, no sticky-assed wax nonsense, no weak plastic flange. Man o man when you work with the stuff here you realise how the whole of north America is still in the dark ages plumbing-wise.
I'm in BC and couldn't agree more. Been a builder for 25 years and have seen some crazy damage from plumbing leaks. When we reno'd our house a couple of years ago I forgot to tell the plumber to use foam gaskets. They used wax. All three toilets leaked. I still see plumbers using putty on tub and sink drains for christ's sake!
Any chance you could post a link of one of those seals?
We still use feet and inches for god's sake! Of course the US is backwards. Out with the old, in with the new!
How interesting that this randomly crossed my feed. I've actually been having a problem with the toilet in my apartment recently. The caulking around the bottom broke down and it started to leak. I thought the leaking was caused by the caulk failing and was going to just fix that up myself.
But if I'm understanding this correctly it seems more likely that the caulk breakdown was caused by the leaking and simply replacing the caulking wouldn't fix this. So I should probably just get maintenance to look at it 😂
You're absolutely right. There's a bigger problem than the caulk breaking down.
That leak is soaking into your floor and perhaps eating a hole through the ceiling of the unit below. Who knows how long it's been doing this? This is not clean water. Contact maintenance immediately.
@@allenlink8032 I did
Yes you need a new wax ring or something
I'm not a contractor, but as far as I'm aware just about every household toilet uses a wax or rubber ring to seal the toilet's drain to the pipes. It should never reach the caulking.
Been a plumber for decades. I always caulk it but leave the back just in case. I almost exclusively use clear unless it's a white toilet on white tile with white grout.
International Plumbing Code in the US requires them to be caulked. Many places in the US don't use IPC so your milage may very.
Very nice! I used to believe that not caulking around toilets was the better option. But after watching this video, I changed my mind.
Your videos are professional ! Love the visual example when explaining potential problem such as wax seal breaking, fluid ingress, etc. That makes you a better RUclipsr than the average Joe and made me write this review. Keep it up !
My wife and I just went through this, though there was a leaky valve at the water hookup that - in the time it took me to fix it - allowed a good amount of water onto the floor. I hadn't caulked the toilet yet, so that water went through the floor around the flange and damaged/discolored the ceiling on the floor below the toilet. Thank you for the much-needed reminder and advice to plan for fluids outside your toilet, not just inside. :-) Keep the stellar content coming, and thanks for being a kind, relatable DIYer.
Thank you, I appreciate the support!
I'm in the habit of caulking the flange to the flooring. That way, if you do have a leak, it won't get to the subflooring/underlayment and lead to rot. Granted, when you replace the finish flooring, you'll have to do some scraping, but I think it's a good trade-off.
This video is the first one I've seen that gives what I consider a good reason (2 actually) for caulking, the "seeping under" issue and using the caulk as an adhesive to keep motion from damaging the wax ring. "Hygiene" is the usual reason, but this video actually explains how caulking improves hygiene. I agree with leaving the back uncaulked, so you get some warning of a leak.
Previous owners caulked the toilet to the floor. Slow leak invisibly destroyed the tile floor, two linoleum floors under that, and the original hardwood floor under that (old house). We didn't notice anything wrong until tiles started coming loose when stepped on. Mold everywhere; lucky we were able to save the subfloor.
In sweden we have moisture barriers in all wet rooms, basically a plastic sheet behind all walls and floors in rooms or areas with running water. If you puncture it, your insurance company will not be happy.
Perfect explanation of both sides of the argument. One other note if the seal is broken it is my experience you will only smell sewer gas when the good wind blows across the vent on the roof and draws the gases up the sewer pipe. the trap is in the toilet so it comes out the broken seal of the wax ring. I now use waxless rings.
I do camera inspections for interior and exterior plumbing and often have to remove / install toilets weekly.
I’ve seen water damage from leaky toilets where the toilet has been caulked completely. Also, I agree that the best strategy for caulking is to do the sides and front but leave the back open.
But, I typically never caulk a toilet unless the customer requests it. My reasoning is that the mark of a good toilet install is to know that you set it balanced and true with proper securing by means of booting it down. (Assuming you have a flat solid surface and a proper flange of course). Always double boot the toilet down. Set it true and level and if you do have a gap then yes, caulk for a clean look. Or as I mentioned, if the customer requests it.
Leaving the back open is a simple, yet astute idea; thank you for the insight.
Flagstaff, Arizona (USA) here. I recently replaced both toilets in our house and didn't even consider caulking the bases.
Our house has a crawl space; the toilets sit on LVP on top of the plywood subfloor, and there is a significant gap around each flange. Water that seeps under the base will pour onto the dirt of the crawl space (about 5 feet below the subfloor). There is a rather tight fit between the toilets and the LVP, but liquids that make it through there drain away readily.
So... the original toilets were not caulked either. They had been removed once before to remove the vinyl tile (shudder!) and put the LVP down. Over the 36 years of the home's history there was no visible ingress of liquid from the bathroom floors, but the second flange was barely up to the floor level, so the single wax seal had leaked badly into the crawl space. Can't win for losing.
I've noticed most residential codes do not say anything about caulking toilets to the floor but commercial codes do require it.
I've been a plumber for 6 months now. It takes me about 2 minutes to look perfect. I enjoy caulking; because I enjoy making things look just exactly perfect...
I've been doing renovations for over 30 years. Quite some time ago I was going to change the flooring, vanity cabinet, and toilet on one job and noticed the toilet was caulked to the floor. This was the first time I had seen this. I didn't think anything about it, but just started to loosen the bolts and cut away the caulking. That's when the crap and liquid started oozing out. There was faeces on the floor now. I suppose the person that installed the toilet didn't have a good seal on the flange and figured the caulking would would solve the problem. What a God awful mess. Since then, if I see a toilet caulked to the floor, I refuse the job.
Caulking toilets to a floor is always a terrible idea.
Eek. In England most loos are called. Mine was done 5 yrs ago n now I'm wondering if I sd remove it to check if anything nasty is going on.....😬
Calked
When I originally caulked mine at the floor I left the back open but I ended up caulking it because the toilet is on the ground floor in a house with no basement so it's a concrete slab. If there were vapors or fluid leaking out you wouldn't know it and it wouldn't harm you if you have water in the bowl, which you should, and you have the caulk sealed properly. The vapors would have nowhere to go and essentially the underneath of the toilet would just become an extension of the drain pipe.
Working in home maintenance, I always use an extra wax ring and a putty knife to seal around the flange.
Cut off chunks of wax and trowel it down into any holes and gaps around the flange, filling flush with the floor surface. This prevents any leaking from seeping under the floor and ruining the ceiling below.
If you chose to caulk, leave a small uncaulked spot on the down slope side of the toilet where water can exit to signal a leak if it develops. Most floors are not entirely level. On the rare case where it's level, I leave the back open for appearance sake.
Exactly what I do.
Master plumber here, I've been doing this for years! I always fill the voids around the flange up with wax before installing a new ring. I always caulk around the front of the toilet from bolt to bolt, leave the back open to make sure there's no leaks.
I recently used a few korky silicone gaskets. They are a game-changer / time-saver!
Good advice 👍
It's better to use the side notches than the standard big long slot. You just have to be a bit more precise when setting the flange, much stronger though and worth the effort.
I caulk the front and sides, even though code says it needs to be completely sealed. The inspectors generally agree that it's better to leave a gap for any leaks to seep out and be noticed before it creates deeper damage to the structure.
There are a good amout of fellows that do what I do in all the bathroom I have redone including bathrooms for my own family and friends set a toilet in thinset. It stays stable and never rocks which breaks many seal over time. I love it.
I was a maintenance supervisor for 600+ houses and have 30 years of plumbing experience. I have documented MANY cases of leaks forming under calked toilets and rotting out the floor without the owner or tenant knowing it. I also saw MANY times where the toilet was not calked and the leak was noticed. I also always seal the flange to the finished floor to encourage the leak to flow out so it can be seen. NEVER seal your toilet to the floor!
100%^^
@@satunnainenkatselija4478 The toilet does not get screwed to the floor. The toilet gets attached to the flange.
@@satunnainenkatselija4478 with a wax ring watch a few installs, there are likely hundreds on u-tube
If you have a tile floor, use the same color of grout to set the toilet. Cement grout is perfect between two ceramic surfaces. You set the toilet onto the wet grout, letting it squish out the sides. Finish with a sponge and when it dries you have a nice solid base for your toilet, it will never rock. Grout that is finished correctly will not transfer liquids very readily.
Can you ever remove the toilet once it's grouted in?
@@SkepticalTraveler Yes. It's easier to remove than caulk in my opinion.
In the olden days we set the toilet in plaster of paris. If the floor was anything but tile, a marble slab was used under the toilet.
I'm a 40+ year plumber...caulk is inferior to sanded grout
and with the grout, there is no danger that it contains a leak under it and you never need to shim it
use colored caulk to match the toilet or floor color
work it in under the edge with a gloved finger
clean it up with a grout sponge
leave out of service 8-12 hrs
perfect job!
We’re required to caulk them where I’m at. If it’s an upstairs or pier and beam, I’ll leave that gap. The thing I would recommend to change though the plastic flange. I’ve seen too many toilets come loose because a plastic flange broke. They make them with a metal ring. Just make sure you get one with a stainless ring. If the metal is painted don’t get it. It’s most likely pot metal and about as good as plastic. If I’m in a situation where a plastic flange is the only option. Some supply houses are limited on stainless closet flanges. One location doesn’t have the inside 3” flange in anything but plastic. So when I’m in this situation, I screw a metal repair ring over the top of it.
Thanks for the info Josh🍻
Amazon is your friend. I never cease to be amazed what one Home Depot will carry and another not only doesn't carry, but their associates will insist it's wrongheaded and probably leads to immorality, baldness and cancer.
@@ethelryan257 I’m referring to plumbing supply houses not Home Depot. I usually don’t have time to order from Amazon. Also Amazon and Home Depot are too expensive. I get parts from the plumbing supply house pretty much at cost and then mark it up. I’ll use Amazon sometimes to order specialty parts and occasionally use home depot in a pinch but I’d make a lot less money if I shopped there regularly
love this video, the bit at the end absolutely makes it relatable
45 years ago I worked in the flooring trade. Often, cheap home owners did not want to pay a plumber or me to pull and reset the toilet. What I should have been done was refuse to install the vinyl. (Young, innocent) Instead the vinyl was cut around the toilet ( patterned not free hand cut) leaving a seam at the back. The toilet would be caulked, but still not an ideal install.
Ya that's a tough one. I think when get older and are a bit more experience you just saying- nah not doing that!
@@TheFunnyCarpenter Oh, yes. Two flags which lead to me not bidding.
1) "Hell no, we won't have you pulling permits. We don' need no gubmint in my house #$%^&*@!
2) "I want the cheapest solution, I'm selling it and it's not my problem. Don't care if it's right as long as it looks OK.
You say either to me, and you're off to my competitors. Not risking my license or people's lives for your 'I've got mine, eff you!' mentality.
Funny, it also eliminates just about all nasty, unpleasant and generally rude customers, too.
Looks great our standard practice was always caulking everywhere but the backside for all those reasons. Great video
Not caulking the back is a great tip, thanks!
Thanks for checking out the vid Amy🍻
Great video and good on you for showing the pros and cons. I always calk the toilet, on the sides and front, while leaving the back open. I use Phenoseal which is a waterproof adhesive caulk that cleans up with water. That way, the toilet is secured and sealed, and getting a good finish is as easy as following up with a damp sponge.
I did mine for aesthetics. But the gap is going to let water into the subfloor if you don’t seal it. I sealed all three of mine.
I always told customers the reasons why I don’t caulk the bottom of the toilet, but said they could themselves if they wanted to.
This is a great video you explained to people all the misconceptions they have about flooring all the way to the flange the flange on top of flooring and the big one where they think the wax ring is for water it's main reason is for sewer gases
I worked in a high end hotel. We never caulked it to the floor. The problem was, if there was a leak from the wax seal, we often wouldn't realize it until it was too late, with water damage to the ceiling in the room below. Then, the damaged room would end up out of service while the water stain got repaired.
Exactly!! The caulking will hide the leak, if you don't see the leak the sub floor rots. Caulking toilets is not a good idea...
Well, highend Hotel with substandard workmanship and material. Fastening with silicone only, worked i whole Europe for 15-20 years and still do... No screws needed and not permitted.
As a code geek, the UPC (402.2) requires that all plumbing fixtures be completely caulked watertight. This is a public health issue which trumps any other reason.
Timing is everything: I wish my need for caulk and caulking guns had arisen after your two videos instead of a year before. Of course I bought the wrong kind of gun, and of course I bought the wrong type of caulk for sealing my tub (pure acrylic, and it's a mess now). I hate having to do a job twice, but Oh Well.
Thanks for the videos: you and a couple of others on RUclips have been an enormous help to a later-in-life homeowner who never had to learn anything about home maintenance and repair except the superintendent's phone number.
The more times you do it the more you learn and improve your skills. You'll have person pride in your expert abilities. Let's hear it for agcons . . . 👏👏👏
The more jobs you do wrong, the more you’ll realize that doing the job right is only doing the job once. The other thing you did was not the job.
I just got a rare call back, home owner adamantly refused caulk at the base, warned him of the issues but nope. I'm now gutting his (new) floor to replace the rotting sub floor, caused by condensation dripping off the tank, a dog water bowl, and kids that can't keep the water in the tub. What a grand and expensive mess that is, so easily avoided by simply caulking down the toilet, which is required under the national pllumbing code, used in my town. Of the hundereds of bathroom remods I've done, I have never once seen an issue from caulking a toilet.
I worked in the building and facilities department of a fairly large city for 41 years. I removed and replaced or reinstalled thousands of toilets. I always caulked them, all the way around. I liked the idea, and so did the janitors. It made it so much easier to keep things clean. Also, when you need to shim a toilet, which is actually quite often, the caulk actually becomes a perfectly fitted shim itself once it dries. I use siliconized acrylic caulk, not pure silicone. It dries harder, and is extremely water resistant once dry. And when you need to remove a toilet that has been caulked, just take a sharp hook knife and zip around it. Once removed, it is very easy to scrape siliconized acrylic caulk (I always used Alex Plus) off the floor and the base of the toilet if you are going to reinstall the toilet. The biggest problems with toilets unfortunately comes from modern developments. Sewer plumbing in older buildings was iron, and so was the flange that toilets bolted to. The flanges were held in place with a lead ring, which was poured in when the lead was molten. Then they outlawed the use of lead in plumbing. Then they started using ABS plastic sewer drains, which meant ABS toilet flanges, which simply would not hold a toilet in place. Caulking it helped a lot. Then came the low water use toilets, another super dumb idea. We had to remove every single one of our toilets (hundreds of them) and replace them with the new 1.5 gallon per flush toilets, which resulted in having to hire a couple more people to do nothing but go around unstopping toilets, because 1.5 gallons is simply not enough water to properly flush a toilet. Then came the pressure assisted flushing systems, and all the toilets got replaced again. But those were constantly failing, and were very expensive to replace. Oh well, it was only taxpayer money being wasted. You still can't beat an old school toilet. That's what I have in my house, and I have 3 more that I brought home from work that I acid washed, and they look brand new. I'm keeping them as replacements in case something happens to the one currently in use in my house. Oh, and I also removed the restrictors from my faucets and shower head.
Excellent post. Thanks Gerald
You are right, the pressure toilets fail a lot. It makes me wonder if they are made that way on purpose.
I love the phrase: "get medieval". Earned a subscribe just for that. Love the explanation and the work by the way, I'm a huge DIY guy so I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for watching Jacob and good luck with your future projects🍻
As always great information and delivered in a very consumable way. Thanks!
Thanks mate, always appreciate the feedback🍻
Every toilet I have installed.....and I have done at least 10...have a curved ceramic spout that extends about 3/8 from the ceramic base down into the toilet flange. The one he flipped over didn't appear to have that. Not sure why. Because of that thing, there is no need to caulk around it. I have pulled toilets off of floors in 50+ year old rentals. They were nasty but I have never encountered one that smells like a urinal room. Urine does also not have the viscosity of blue toilet bowl cleaner and will not run down the side like that. Also, if you install a toilet right, it does not flop around like that. Never heard of using shims. There are, however , adapters available that fit right over the flange to make it flush with, say newly installed flooring. Call me right or wrong, but this is what I know because of what I have done.
It just looks better! If you're worried about leaks, just don't caulk the back. Easy.
I'd agree
Not necessarily. Try caulking on a floor with 1” tiles. I put down masking tape for these but it still never looks good. The only way to make it look really good is to caulk it them come back the next day and cut it evenly and scrape the grout lines
Only if it is done well. I have seen far too many hack jobs. More bad caulking than good, actually.
I have always used plumber’s putty. It gives a resilient bed to seat the toilet and you can still caulk if you desire.
My brother, who is a master plumber does that. He does caulk the toilet, leaving a 4-5cm gap at the back.
He says it's the best compromise between an early warning that there is a problem and dealing with the idiots who think you MUST caulk the toilet into place.
My company (electrical) does a lot of repairs/updating after home inspection. I usually get the entire inspector's report (actually, I won't bid without it, I hate 'hidden defects' and that one is always called by the idiot home inspectors. They have no real education or knowledge, just a Holiday Inn weekend course and lots of arrogance.
I have nothing to add to this video, but a comment is a comment.
😂
Cheers Pete🍻 Have an excellent weekend!
This is the first video of yours that I've seen... subscribed for that beard and the way you pronounce "process." 👍
Cheers and thanks for watching🍻
You gave many good reasons to caulk it and not one good reason not to. Also having sewer gasses able to just waft into your bathroom, where you might have a gas water heater with a pilot light is an incredibly bad idea, trapping the gas under the toilet and in the sewer pipes is 1000% better than letting it run into your house. Not to mention the smell, and the roaches crawling up out of the sewer and into your house.
Yes but it takes a lot and you should notice a bit of the smell then take the toilet up and replace the gasket
Most codes in the US prohibit gas water heaters in bathrooms (or bedrooms), even if they are in a closet behind a door.
@@nickk05281982 IF you catch it before it's a problem, It should be a wax ring seal and if sealed in proper can last decades. Took up the toilet in my moms house which we put down 25 years ago and and the wax ring was still in good shape. Took up the toilet in my current house which had been down no more than 7 years and it was almost gone, because it wasn't sealed in and dried out.
@@HisboiLRoi Most but not all and there are many that are grandfathered in. Even in a closet outside the bathroom it can still be affected by gas which is heavier than air and creeps under doors etc. Better safe than very very sorry.
In many countries, external, flexible drain pipe is attached from the back of the toilet (not under it like in your video), which allows servicing or replacement without the need to remove the heavy toilet itself.
Caulk isn't glue buddy🤣
I'm not your buddy, guy.
@@555pontifex Buddy Guy?😂
Great video, you explained both sides of the the senerios. I like the your recommendation of not chaulking the underside towards the back wall section.
Glad it was helpful!
Caulking a toilet looks a little goofy. It looks like they couldn’t level a floor correctly and are patching it the lazy way.
This.
If done correctly you won't even notice. If done poorly not so much.
Except the alternative is to redo the floor.
HA! I was with you on the two reasons to caulk but couldn't imagine what the reasons not were!?! Living in Florida, I never even considered a toilet leak being a huge issue...we almost all have single story, concrete slab construction and most have tile floors...nothing about a leak is a big deal (well, in terms of rot, etc).
I just installed two new toilets, and used a ribbon of good old fashioned Plumber’s Putty. The biggest downside (if you can call it that) is that it takes a couple days to fully seat, and every day is another turn on each nut until it stops settling, and then just cut the excess with a razor,
I like the compromise of leaving the back open. I flip houses for a living and have ran across a caulked toilet that leaked. The toilet was about to fall through the floor and I had to completely remove the flooring/decking in the entire bathroom down to the floor joists and start over. It got a little into one of the bedrooms, but it was just water staining and no real damage. Thankfully the floor joists were still solid as well.
I'm a builder in Minnesota I've had a couple inspectors check to see if the toilet is caulked. I personally think it's good to caulk and leave a small cap. This way the toilet is more solid and less of a chance of the wax ring losing it's seal. Also if u miss it creates bacteria under the toilet. I know my plumber uses small little squeeze tubes because they can get in small areas and leaves a very nice small bead without taping it.
I do lots of reno's and if a toilet is tightened down properly it will never move. Silicone makes the job look sloppy and over time it gets mildew. The biggest reason I don't caulk them is if I ever have to replace the toilet they are never the same shape and depending on the flooring you will not always be able to remove the old silicone line.
2 wax rings always
4 nuts
4 washers .
Clear calling works well , often you’ll catch the shadow effect fro
The clear . Nice video
Agree🍻
Why two wax rings? To be SURE it seals? (I'm considering this...)
Good response to so many doubters. Great video.
Of all the new inventions and ideas that have come out, I marvel at why no one has come up with a better design for the toilet.
I heard the Japanese did that
I like chalking the toilet and leaving a 3 inch gap on the backside. Use a wallpaper scraper with a 4 inch blade to loosen the old chalk, best tool ever. Every homeowner I have introduced this tool to and the amazing number of uses, told me afterwards they cannot imagine doing without one.
I grout my toilets to the floor. I get the perfect bead finish by wiping around the whole thing with a large sponge. The result is “perfection.”
I say make a seal with a genuine wax (non-funnel). Make certain it is anchored solid to the floor with the closet bolts, then caulk the toilet to the floor but do NOT caulk all the way around the back. Leave the the back open, so if the wax seal breaks it dumps on the flor
Nice, but here is a hint. Do not use silicon caulk, use a mastic cement. This will change color and seep if their is a leak, but will still hold the toiler secure.
Truer words were never spoken about those toilet bolts! The location and design works but it sucks from my limited engineering view and I never feel good about them when I install a toilet.
I am using transparent caulk and even if you somehow mess - it will never be visible. And never heard about any policy about it in Texas.
That suggestion on caulk but leave the back area uncalked to allow for gases or leaks seems to give you the best of both worlds. Better stability, less likely to tear the wax seal, a spot for internal issues, and a spot to start cutting the caulk easily if removal is needed. Nice thought
I have seen quite a few toilets that leak onto the finished floor. But the real issue for me is the subfloor rotting. I have also seen this quite often,so I’m not sure about how effective leaving the back open is. Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part,but I hope the water would show up at the back. So I do what you did and lave the back open.
Leaks usually at that gasket between the tank and the rest of the toilet. Other is where the water goes in.
Great advice. I installed a toilet one, and it turn out there was a hairline crack inside, not visible but it ony became active every flush. The bathroom floor was sloped, so a small quantity of water would pool at the low end of the bathroom, it took ages for me to figure out what was going on. I had silicone sealed or 'caulked' as you would say around the toilet but left the back open basically because it was too difficult to do, and I was lazy.
Its easy to cut through when removing the toilet, just a box cutter flush to the floor with the blade extended
This is fascinating; I've never lived anywhere where a toilet was caulked to the floor
Well i was a professional caulker/sealer on industrial and residential development here in Australia and every toilet that was floor mounted had to be caulked according to code. The caulk keeps dirt and bacteria out from getting in the gap and it gives the overall finish a nice look,plus it adheres the toilet to the floor. The down side is if the toilet ever needs to be replaced its more work to remove the toilet.
Set the toilet base on a bed of grout that matches your tile. It evens the floor so the toilet will never rock and you’ll never need to worry about your wax ring losing a seal.
That's a great compromise to caulk the front half of the toilet and leave the back half open.
I recently had to have extensive repairs where a toilet that was caulked in all the way around had a leak that ran under the finished floor to the walls and black water was absorbed by the drywall. I'm not sure if changing how the toilet was caulked to begin with would have changed the outcome, but I imagine that it would have been easier to track down the source of the leak.
I only caulk back as far as the mounting bolts.
Thanks for adding to the discussion ,viewers!
Pulled and set thousands of these, your spot on.
I have to caulk the toilet since the kids spill water out of the tub. I actually have a drain in the bathroom floor four just in case and the drain just goes to the basement to the drain in the basement. So I caulk the toilet all the way around and then near the flange I drill a hole through the floor so if it does leak the fluid will be noticed immediately. I also seal the floor with polyurethane so the floor does not soak up any of the water that is leaked. Very good video including the special effects props
To caulk, or not to caulk. I've done both. And when I did caulk, I did the exact same thing with leaving a section at the back open. Floor mounts and wall mounts. Some of those wall mounts don't get cleaned thoroughly underneath.
i was the maintenance manager for a large retirement home and our insurance company made it mandatory for all toilets above the 1st flood to be caulked to prevent overflows causing flood damage. a minor leak in a bathroom can cause major damage. the chances of an internal leak is a myth. it will go straight through unless you are on ground level.
My biggest reason TO caulk the toilet to the floor is to prevent leakage to the room below in case of overflows. It will keep the mess on the floor of the bathroom...not in the kitchen below.
I used to use a proprietary gasket in the years before I retired - it adhered to the horn and underside of the bowl, and went down the pipe a good 1½. If you are relying solely on the flange and bolts, there's a good chance that the toilet will rock and ultimately break a wax seal - I would caulk automatically, shimming if needs be. If someone is not careful, they could tighten down the bowl too much - there's no point in backing off the nut once you've broken the base - so the minutest of play can be overcome by any shimming, and caulking.
Also, it would be my choice to keep the flange sitting on top of the finished floor wherever that's possible - although that could probably, but rarely, will squeeze the wax seal too much. In your video, I would pack the flange up with the appropriate extender. In your instance, right now, I'd squash some wax into the gap between the floor and flange, or fill it with caulk, to stop liquids penetrating the subfloor.
Although you didn't say as much - have odours escape is a good way to tell you your gasket has failed... time to renew.
A great tip here:- if you've a flood in the house, the lowest point is often the downstairs toilet. Remove it...!
Good explanations. I am for the old fashioned way of " no calking" My mother had her bathroom redone and even though it was not used much a leak developed at the wax ring. The water soaked under the tile long before being discovered. 6 times the amount of work to change a cheap wax ring plus fix the damage. If this were on a second story I can only imagine the toilet and a person ending up on the first floor in a very quick and loud manner .
Happy to find someone from BC and talks about the codes. Subbed!
Thanks for the sub!
Back in the 1970's, I was a maintenance mechanic for a low income apartment complex with about 1000 units in it. Some person before me caulked all the toilets to the floor. The bath tubs had a drain plug with a long extension with henges which worked up the overflow pipe and hooked to a lever that allowed the tub drain to be closed. At least once a week some little kid or other in the complex would have pulled out the stopper from the tub and dropped it down the toilette. The only way to remove it was to take the toilette up, hold it upside down and shake it until the stopper fell out. If the toilets hadn't been caulked, that would have taken about 10 to 15 minutes. As it was it took over an hour to remove all the caulk and in the process I broke about one toilette every couple of months. The caulk also looked terrible.
As a contractor I default to not sealing the units to floors. It does provide the ability to detect a leak if it occurs…situations do dictate if it is warranted, but as a rule no, and I only use clear!