Himmel KNEW and you can't tell me differently. How is that NOT a proposal?! I have so many questions about Himmel's feelings towards Frieren URGH. FYI I had some dust in my eyes in those scenes...that is all. What was your favorite scene in this episode?
Heiter's whole "my mind is mostly the same as when I was a child, I just act like an adult because people I care about need it," really spoke to me. No matter how old I get, I don't really felt like I am all that different, even though I obviously am an adult.
I haven't read the manga so I can only speculate up to where I've seen, but I suspect that the reason Himmel didn't pursue Frieren more than he did is because he knew of the massive disparity of their lifespans and he wouldn't want Frieren to fall in love with him only for him to leave her alone and heartbroken when he finally died. It just seems like the kind of forward thinking Himmel would do, since he was always considering other people before himself. However, I fully expect Frieren to eventually come to learn of Himmel's feelings, even though it's blatantly obvious to everyone else who were alive at the time. I think it's why Eisen and even Heiter helped her find Flamme's grimoire and asked her to go to Aureole to speak with Himmel, so she can finally understand Himmel and what she meant to him.
Of course Himmel knew, he is a hero who loves flowers, of course he knew what the Mirror Lotus means, it gets better by the end of the season, it explain why he loves flower so much
I think the lesson here was for Fern to be less harsh in general, her constant harshness lead to him being so hesitant to say what he wanted to to begin with. That's why I think she did need to apologize, including for kicking Sein because violence like that unprovoked (him saying something dumb doesn't make it ok to hit him) is never a good thing. This was a good turning point for Fern's maturity in IMO. It also will help Stark gain confidence as well.
This is definitely something that was a problem and up until this episode had led to me increasingly disliking Fern due to her harshness in general. I'm actually surprised it was addressed because you normally see this treated as a non issue in anime and it's just another reason why I adore Frieren so much as a show.
Himmel knew the impossible time gap between him and Frieren. The last thing he want is left Frieren eternal endless sorrow after he pass away like other human being. He has been kept all his feeling towards her in a really subtle way and this might be the most impulsive move he showed her.
I think even if Stark actually forgot her birthday she doesn’t have a right to be that upset with him. I mean the guy didn’t even remember his own birthday or celebrate giving or receiving gifts, so at a cultural level it’s not fair to him to be completely conscious of these things. Also it definitely seemed like Stark was trying to communicate with Fern but she didn’t give him the chance, which is why Frieren and Sein said she should at least hear him out first.
this ship is bigger than a warship. And YES! Of course Himmel knew about the flowers... but he decided to respect Frieren and her limitations until the end. His love was so big he understood he could not be the one for her :( Btw, the ring himmel gave her is slightly different from the one stark gifted. Fern's bracelet is a full bloom Mirror-Lotus, meaning their love will bloom between them. Frieren's ring is a bud Mirror-Lotus, meaning their love never bloomed.
I think the most devastating thing is that he probably WAS the one for her. If Frieren ever held any romantic feelings towards someone it was Himmel. She just realized it 80 years too late.
13:41 on why Himmel never explicitly explain his feelings - this will be subtly explained in the 1st half of episode 16. There's a lot of things shown and hinted but not part of an exposition, this anime/manga respects the audience to slowly figure them out themselves.
Everyone always goes gaga over Himmel on one knee with the clock tower in-between him and Frieren, and for good reason. My favorite is the scene where Fern finds Frieren looking for the ring. She comes in with a look of vague annoyance and then you can just watch the thoughts and emotions play across her face as she goes from that to finding this ring is the most important thing right now.
Also because he knew he would die long before she even got old, it would be almost an eternal punishment for Frieren for loving him back and always be sad after his death.
For me, i really love Sein bc i can't rely Frieren being 'the adult' in here to solve Fern and Stark problems. Also i've met so many clueless males in real life (or probably i was unlucky as a female 😂) like Stark who's too dense towards female's intention/feeling. Those experiences sometimes make me annoyed by Fern's character tho. Not everyone can read your mind so why not trying to say/express what you're feeling sometimes? So yeah, i love Sein for being the one who give them the advice ❤.
You may have had dust in your eyes, but I damn near went through half a box of tissues by the end of this episode. Between the heiter scene and the himmel scene the waterworks were real. This episode basically felt like a huge reward for shippers, and really made me happy. I love your reactions because you have great questions and it's even better when the show answers for them for you in later episodes, even if they don't always do that. Thanks for reacting!
13:54 He didn't say it because he loved her too much to put that kind of burden on her. He only did the proposal thing because he knew she wouldn't understand it. You know how she cried at his funeral? He wanted to avoid a much worse version of that, knowing how devastated she would be at losing him if she wound up having feelings for him, due to the vast differences in their lifespans. However, she's going to the land where souls rest, so who knows. . .
All of the episodes in this series is amazing, and I personally find the slower moments in this anime (which is like... More than half of the series) to be most impactful. For me, this is my absolute favorite. The older Heiter moments hit me especially. As you mentioned, we often idolize those older than us, sometimes forgetting that they're just people getting by in life. Seeing myself at the age where I feel like I haven't really grown in some time, to understanding that my parents and grandparents are also probably the same. It definitely shows that while our loved ones are still alive, to praise them, and tell them "you've done well".
Like others have said, Himmel understood everything. 1. she wouldn't have a clue as to what he's talking about, and 2. he didn't want his life and death to become a burden for her. All of the companions planned ahead on her behalf. They didn't want her to be lonely. That's half the reason Heiter procured an apprentice for her. But Himmel was always looking after her future best interests, almost obsessively. This "proposal" is the closest he could get to expressing how he felt without negatively affecting her. It's easy to forget that Frieren was living in the woods all alone for like 500+ years before the hero's party. It took her 80+ years just to begin to understand how she felt back then.
I love the romance in this show because the guy never put Frieren in an uncomfortable position or pushed his feelings, often in anime we would see the guy being pushy
14:10 While another reason involves spoilers, one reason that is already clear is because Frieren didn't recognize any of his flirtations or even this pseudo proposal for what they were. If Himmel had told her then she would have probably dismissed the idea out of hand. It seems like it has taken her 80 plus years to even start seeing these interactions in a romantic light and to reciprocate them, implying that elf courtship simply takes too long for them to successfully have a romance with a human.
Frieren, after receiving the most romantic proposal ever: "Geez, why is Himmel acting so weird over a silly ring?" Frieren, suddenly waking up in the middle of the night 100 years in the future: "OH SHIT HE ACTUALLY LIKED ME"
He DID know, and it was NOT a proposal - because he didn't propose anything. It was a romantic gesture where he allowed himself to indulge his feelings for her specifically because he knew she wouldn't understand what was happening - at least not in the moment. He had the wisdom not to ask anything of her that she couldn't give him. He loved her and he accepted that she would never be able to reciprocate those feelings. And about the flying travel, you're just gonna have to get over it. It might not seem like it because Frieren is OP and the show is focused on her, but this is all happening in a fairly low-fantasy, high-economic-reality setting. If humans tried to train giant eagles or pegasuses or something, a couple of things would happen. First, anyone who wanted to fly on one would have to be very wealthy. They'd also have to be combat-trained, because the skies are the domain of demons and flying monsters. Those two factors don't make for effective transportation networks.
It was 100% a proposal, and it kills me that he didn't come out and say it, and it kills me that Frieren is only now starting to realize that she may have had feelings for Himmel.
13:46 Yes, oddly, it’s often pretty dusty in my room too when I watch this anime…. Frieren has one of saddest romances I’ve ever seen. You have Himmel, who couldn’t tell the love of his life how he felt because he probably felt she wouldn’t understand, yet remained faithful to her to the end of his life (or so it seems from what we’ve seen), and you have Frieren who, as she reprocesses her old memories with current knowledge, is likely gradually beginning to understand her own feelings for Himmel. I imagine that by the time she reaches “Heaven” and talks to Himmel, she’ll be bawling her eyes out again. At least for Fern and Stark, the ship is close to shore. ^_^
Himmel KNEW and you can't tell me differently. How is that NOT a proposal?! I have so many questions about Himmel's feelings towards Frieren URGH. FYI I had some dust in my eyes in those scenes...that is all. What was your favorite scene in this episode?
Heiter's whole "my mind is mostly the same as when I was a child, I just act like an adult because people I care about need it," really spoke to me. No matter how old I get, I don't really felt like I am all that different, even though I obviously am an adult.
I haven't read the manga so I can only speculate up to where I've seen, but I suspect that the reason Himmel didn't pursue Frieren more than he did is because he knew of the massive disparity of their lifespans and he wouldn't want Frieren to fall in love with him only for him to leave her alone and heartbroken when he finally died. It just seems like the kind of forward thinking Himmel would do, since he was always considering other people before himself.
However, I fully expect Frieren to eventually come to learn of Himmel's feelings, even though it's blatantly obvious to everyone else who were alive at the time. I think it's why Eisen and even Heiter helped her find Flamme's grimoire and asked her to go to Aureole to speak with Himmel, so she can finally understand Himmel and what she meant to him.
Of course Himmel knew, he is a hero who loves flowers, of course he knew what the Mirror Lotus means, it gets better by the end of the season, it explain why he loves flower so much
I think the lesson here was for Fern to be less harsh in general, her constant harshness lead to him being so hesitant to say what he wanted to to begin with. That's why I think she did need to apologize, including for kicking Sein because violence like that unprovoked (him saying something dumb doesn't make it ok to hit him) is never a good thing. This was a good turning point for Fern's maturity in IMO. It also will help Stark gain confidence as well.
This is definitely something that was a problem and up until this episode had led to me increasingly disliking Fern due to her harshness in general. I'm actually surprised it was addressed because you normally see this treated as a non issue in anime and it's just another reason why I adore Frieren so much as a show.
@@godtierbp1928 great writing transcends genres !!
Himmel knew the impossible time gap between him and Frieren. The last thing he want is left Frieren eternal endless sorrow after he pass away like other human being. He has been kept all his feeling towards her in a really subtle way and this might be the most impulsive move he showed her.
I think even if Stark actually forgot her birthday she doesn’t have a right to be that upset with him. I mean the guy didn’t even remember his own birthday or celebrate giving or receiving gifts, so at a cultural level it’s not fair to him to be completely conscious of these things.
Also it definitely seemed like Stark was trying to communicate with Fern but she didn’t give him the chance, which is why Frieren and Sein said she should at least hear him out first.
this ship is bigger than a warship.
And YES! Of course Himmel knew about the flowers... but he decided to respect Frieren and her limitations until the end. His love was so big he understood he could not be the one for her :(
Btw, the ring himmel gave her is slightly different from the one stark gifted.
Fern's bracelet is a full bloom Mirror-Lotus, meaning their love will bloom between them.
Frieren's ring is a bud Mirror-Lotus, meaning their love never bloomed.
I think the most devastating thing is that he probably WAS the one for her. If Frieren ever held any romantic feelings towards someone it was Himmel. She just realized it 80 years too late.
@@rumaristo129 this hurts now T.T
13:41 on why Himmel never explicitly explain his feelings - this will be subtly explained in the 1st half of episode 16. There's a lot of things shown and hinted but not part of an exposition, this anime/manga respects the audience to slowly figure them out themselves.
Everyone always goes gaga over Himmel on one knee with the clock tower in-between him and Frieren, and for good reason. My favorite is the scene where Fern finds Frieren looking for the ring. She comes in with a look of vague annoyance and then you can just watch the thoughts and emotions play across her face as she goes from that to finding this ring is the most important thing right now.
It was totally a proposal, but Himmel also knew that she would never be able to understand in his lifetime.
Also because he knew he would die long before she even got old, it would be almost an eternal punishment for Frieren for loving him back and always be sad after his death.
For me, i really love Sein bc i can't rely Frieren being 'the adult' in here to solve Fern and Stark problems. Also i've met so many clueless males in real life (or probably i was unlucky as a female 😂) like Stark who's too dense towards female's intention/feeling. Those experiences sometimes make me annoyed by Fern's character tho. Not everyone can read your mind so why not trying to say/express what you're feeling sometimes?
So yeah, i love Sein for being the one who give them the advice ❤.
It's hilarious how hung up you are on their chosen way to travel,
especially in an anime all about the journey.😂
"yeah kick him fern."just because you disagree with someone, does not give you an excuse for physical violence. smh
You may have had dust in your eyes, but I damn near went through half a box of tissues by the end of this episode. Between the heiter scene and the himmel scene the waterworks were real. This episode basically felt like a huge reward for shippers, and really made me happy. I love your reactions because you have great questions and it's even better when the show answers for them for you in later episodes, even if they don't always do that. Thanks for reacting!
I think we have a pretty good example of a "flying magical beast" and the inevitable end result to trying to ride one here
13:54 He didn't say it because he loved her too much to put that kind of burden on her. He only did the proposal thing because he knew she wouldn't understand it. You know how she cried at his funeral? He wanted to avoid a much worse version of that, knowing how devastated she would be at losing him if she wound up having feelings for him, due to the vast differences in their lifespans.
However, she's going to the land where souls rest, so who knows. . .
My favorite scene from this episode is the one where Frieren is looking for the ring.
All of the episodes in this series is amazing, and I personally find the slower moments in this anime (which is like... More than half of the series) to be most impactful.
For me, this is my absolute favorite. The older Heiter moments hit me especially. As you mentioned, we often idolize those older than us, sometimes forgetting that they're just people getting by in life. Seeing myself at the age where I feel like I haven't really grown in some time, to understanding that my parents and grandparents are also probably the same. It definitely shows that while our loved ones are still alive, to praise them, and tell them "you've done well".
Like others have said, Himmel understood everything. 1. she wouldn't have a clue as to what he's talking about, and 2. he didn't want his life and death to become a burden for her. All of the companions planned ahead on her behalf. They didn't want her to be lonely. That's half the reason Heiter procured an apprentice for her. But Himmel was always looking after her future best interests, almost obsessively. This "proposal" is the closest he could get to expressing how he felt without negatively affecting her.
It's easy to forget that Frieren was living in the woods all alone for like 500+ years before the hero's party. It took her 80+ years just to begin to understand how she felt back then.
I love the romance in this show because the guy never put Frieren in an uncomfortable position or pushed his feelings, often in anime we would see the guy being pushy
This show is so GOATED! 🔥🔥 Yup, Himmel proposed 😊😊 such a beautiful moment! I am loving these reactions so much
14:10 While another reason involves spoilers, one reason that is already clear is because Frieren didn't recognize any of his flirtations or even this pseudo proposal for what they were. If Himmel had told her then she would have probably dismissed the idea out of hand. It seems like it has taken her 80 plus years to even start seeing these interactions in a romantic light and to reciprocate them, implying that elf courtship simply takes too long for them to successfully have a romance with a human.
Frieren, after receiving the most romantic proposal ever: "Geez, why is Himmel acting so weird over a silly ring?"
Frieren, suddenly waking up in the middle of the night 100 years in the future: "OH SHIT HE ACTUALLY LIKED ME"
He won't tell her because he knew it wouldn't work out. Like when ur scared to ask out ur first crush
Now go back to episode 1 where Frieren looking at the ring she had.
i love the scene where frieren talked her plan was a success, stark questioning her call that a success and sein questioning her call that a plan.
He DID know, and it was NOT a proposal - because he didn't propose anything. It was a romantic gesture where he allowed himself to indulge his feelings for her specifically because he knew she wouldn't understand what was happening - at least not in the moment. He had the wisdom not to ask anything of her that she couldn't give him. He loved her and he accepted that she would never be able to reciprocate those feelings.
And about the flying travel, you're just gonna have to get over it. It might not seem like it because Frieren is OP and the show is focused on her, but this is all happening in a fairly low-fantasy, high-economic-reality setting. If humans tried to train giant eagles or pegasuses or something, a couple of things would happen. First, anyone who wanted to fly on one would have to be very wealthy. They'd also have to be combat-trained, because the skies are the domain of demons and flying monsters. Those two factors don't make for effective transportation networks.
It was 100% a proposal, and it kills me that he didn't come out and say it, and it kills me that Frieren is only now starting to realize that she may have had feelings for Himmel.
13:46 Yes, oddly, it’s often pretty dusty in my room too when I watch this anime….
Frieren has one of saddest romances I’ve ever seen. You have Himmel, who couldn’t tell the love of his life how he felt because he probably felt she wouldn’t understand, yet remained faithful to her to the end of his life (or so it seems from what we’ve seen), and you have Frieren who, as she reprocesses her old memories with current knowledge, is likely gradually beginning to understand her own feelings for Himmel. I imagine that by the time she reaches “Heaven” and talks to Himmel, she’ll be bawling her eyes out again.
At least for Fern and Stark, the ship is close to shore. ^_^
And....now we know about the ring...and elves move to slow.
😭😭she had a ring the whole time and still didn't get it😮💨
we need a separate series focusing on Himmel and Frieren/the journey with her old guild
that would have been 100x better that this
Subscribed!!!
A proposal? No. But certainly a confession.
funny how vy hair looks like starks