If you like what I do, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/GlassHalfDead Want the ACCOUTREMENTS I use when I play Kill Team? Find them here for 5% off using code GLASSHALFDEAD24: tinyurl.com/mry6uhyj My HOW TO PLAY KILL TEAM Video: ruclips.net/video/1mPOpxA6sxE/видео.html&t
The sweet spot for the length of a game (not just Kill Team) is between 60 and 90 minutes. Worlds having turning points lasting hours was mentalist stuff.
The rounds weren't that long because it was appropriate. The rounds were that long because Worlds was being run on the Warhammer 40,000 rounds schedule.
World's was an orginsational fluff from higherups, of course. Showed the game in a poor light. However, if you have to do 20 minutes of admin before starting the game, that pushes a 90min game to a 2 hour game. The point of the video was to hopefully break that down a little bit to show that KT doesn't take THAT long if you walk up to an already built table and have no admin to do.
Great stuff Andy. My brother and I are playing casually but it’s taking us hours… AP at its finest indeed. We’ll try the 20 min clock next time. Thanks! Love your content and humour. Also, I believe shorts can help with the YT algorithm, but I also want to highlight that your shorts from the “facing X jn killteam” are genuinely funny, Spot on with a great delivery. Cheers!
The support is very appreciated, thank you! I didn't mention it in this video because I really didn't want to turn the comments section into a chess clock argument, but I think you'll find that by simply having a chess clock running (and even saying that you won't stop when it times out, simply having it there so you're aware) you will both play much faster. It takes a strange kind of dude to see their timer at 0:00 with their opponent still above 10:00 and to not realise they might have an issue! Likewise, I have more fun finishing within X time. I don't really care if the game finishes, but if we put an hour on the clock, who cares if we finish TP3
Our local "friendly" 1-day tournaments in Tokyo (with entries just going to cover venue costs, no prizes on the line) are 3-round with a 10 minute talk phase and then chess-clocked with 55 minutes for each player. There's an hour between rounds and players can opt for an untimed round 2 and skip the third round if they're feeling casual. Given a 30 minute period at the start for setup and stragglers to arrive, that lets 3 rounds get done in 8.5 hours with ample break time.
@@DavidVanCleef I much prefer that sort of thing. I like the tension it brings because you have to start being able to think under pressure, or at the very least have a strategy already thought-through that you stick to as best as possible. It's like in DnD when your DM starts rolling dice behind the screen while the party is bickering mid-combat. It focuses your attention back on the fact that you're in the middle of a fight, and now is not the time to have an argument with each other 🤣
Andy would scream at our games. We usually take 6 hours for a game, hanging the coats, chatting, changing the music etc. included. But I absolutely want to cut it down to 2.5 hours pure play time. ps.: Playing an entire game (40-50 activations?) in 60 minutes seems impossible to me.
Hey, if it's a chilled out thing that just happens to be on the table as you socialise, then none of this matters. I personally like to have a chat, catchup, then play, then have a chat afterwards as well. If I have the game ever present, then you might have me screaming, yes!
That how me and my friend have been playing while getting comfortable with the rules. Would be nice to be able to get two games in every time I visit him and I am sure we will get there eventually.
Statically 50 total activations. Things will die by turn 4 probably only 3 or 4 each. Statistically each player will activate 25 times a game. Each activation averages 30-45 seconds so hour to 90mins definitely plenty of time. I switched to killteam for this reason in a game night i can play multiple games and opponents.
@@patrickbrown8340 Realistic time for an activation for us is between one to two minutes. Anything below 45 seconds is only possible if you either don't have to measure anything or don't roll dice.
Partially depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. When my son and I play, we tend to talk out each activation, pointing out options, etc... Maybe the objective is to try to get better at analyzing the board state and recognizing options and opportunities?
This was absolutely fantastic content. It felt like the product of a chain of thought that had brewed long and slow and I really enjoyed it. Top notch stuff!
This vid was almost exclusively me trying to cram in a discussion on why the real enjoyment of a wargame is in unforced player error. Then as a side product let noobs know how long a game of KT should take because a lot of people are expecting a warcry light fast skirmish game. And it really isn't at that level
Sure, so this ties into a format I did last edition I called "Glass Half Minute". I bought some sandtimers, and by the time the sand is done, you need to start your activation. So it was 1 minute thinking then do your actions fast as possible. The problem this led to was that if you have 14 models vs 14 models that actually leaves a 4 round game at a potential 2 hour game. And that was still beyond what I wanted to play. Also, and the main issue, is that it's very uneven, giving a horde player potentially 3 times the amount of time to play the game which imo is a bit unfair
my mates and I usually play 4 player games and they can last 5-6 hours. Did a 1v1 recently and even that was like 3-4. We have a great time though. We're all relatively new so I think a lot of the time is spent checking the stats on our weapons/abilities and figuring out cover/obscuring/etc
Most of my games last around the 2 hour mark. With 2 large teams, maybe would take us 2 1/2 hours. Most of my games are chilled, chatting and having a beer. On the flipside, I have no trouble finishing my games at a Tournament. I think it depends on your expectations. I expect games to take that amount of time. I play board games like Nemesis that take 3 plus hours (plus 30 mins to set it up). I'm fine with that, as it's what I expect. If someone wanted me to play a Kill Team game that took 3 and a half hours, I doubt I'd really be in to it. P.S "Dice will fuck you" 😂 I'm going to put that on a T shirt!
Agree an hour game time with around 15 minutes pre game set up etc is an ideal game length for me. If I remember correctly I think that was roughly how long kill team 18 took.
Yes, KT18 was a much faster game. I even remember the tournament times. If you were playing Core the game was 60mins, if you added elites you went 75. Tournaments would regularly push that by +15, but people still consistently finished their games. Much faster system, indeed.
I play somewhat comp with my mates and we last 1:30-2:30. Newer players games last up to 4? But my brother and I who play against eachother frequently (1-6 games a week) comfortably get under 2 hour games (not counting set up) so game one 2:30 ish, then the rest much shorter
Play with a chess clock, not as a hard limit but just to see how much time it takes you to perform moves. Often it's not everybody that's responsible for stalling, just some players, and they are usually not even aware they are doing that.
As I say in the video, that's simple the barrier to entry that a manual ruleset puts upon its players. If you're two new players there's literally no way around it without assigning serious grinding and homework to learning things, and if you're doing that, might as well just play those longer games more. Putting yourself on a clock COULD help, but it depends where you are. If analysis paralysis is the problem then it's a great help, but if you're both checking core rules and not getting those 90% right, and still shaky on your team rules, then a clock isn't for you YET.
@@GlassHalfDead I have to say your videos help alot. For example we thought that as long as one is within 1" of cover he is in cover even with direct LOS. We even joked how stupid that rule is. Turns out we are the stupid ones.
@@demacherius1 Oh mate, the number of times a rule changes when you read the WHOLE rule. It's outrageous, honestly. So many times, my brain switches off half way through reading and I've read so many rules I fill in the end of the rule... then I read it fully and realise I got it wrong lol
It's such an awkward question, I know. It's great to say "when you know the system and your opponent and you really focus in, you can finish it in 45 mins!" but then you tell them how long it takes to get to that level... awkward
I don't disagree with your main point here but that last 30 seconds of your video is why timed matches never seem to work. Since in a tournament you can't just play somebody else if you get an hour and a half match limit and your opponent takes 4 hours for a typical game even if you do everything right and win that game you're still losing that tournament because there is no way of effectively scoring the single round you make it through with that opponent. Chess clocks are an answer but only if everyone is using them and there are actual rules for how to handle the game when one of the two players goes over the allotted time.
Yes, I completely agree with you. I am 100% on the chess clock mandatory train. HOWEVER in the past my chess clock videos do not perform well. they are intimidating and new players believe they are not for them (which is correct obviously). So we need to ease people into an awareness of time and the excitement of forcing player error.
Maybe the team sizes should be cut down to limit the length of the game. Like ten units max for all teams. This might mean some types of units are just not seen in the game but maybe also forces balance in an ideal situation.
How long will you take a) looking up rules in the ridiculously bloated Book of Badly-Worded Regulations? And b) how long will you spend bickering with your friend because of how Badly-Worded the Book of Badly-Worded Regulations was worded.
Andy, something I couldn’t find in your last video (probably my fault I’m sure you explained) but if an operative is in cover behind heavy terrain is it obscured and in cover or just in cover?
I did this in the last edition. It was called "Glass Half Minute". I bought some hourglass timers of 1 minute, and you have until the sand runs out to begin your activation. the problem here is that a 14 model team still has 14 minutes to begin activations, plus another minute or so to do their activation and actually it turns out that's too long!
Suuuuure... but when I see noobs asking how long KT takes to play and someone says 1 hour, that person should be banned from talking to new players and sued for false advertising, and that was the main point of this video for the noob perspective (and for the more advanced players a discussion on why unforced player errors is the core of fun and excitement and skill expression in wargaming) I've played games in under 45 mins, doesn't mean I'd ever advertise the game that way.
i think my first game lasted just over 3 hours with myself and a friend both learning the game, our 2nd game was roughly the same (was a 3 player game) but overall was very fun
How long does KT take, well my Phobos end TP4 in 20-40 mins in tournaments. This is not the norm for KT but this is the only example I can think of coming under 45 mins.
Suuuuure... but when I see noobs asking how long KT takes to play and someone says 45 minutes, it should be a fucking crime, and that was the main point of this video for the noob perspective (and for the more advanced players a discussion on why unforced player errors is the core of fun and excitement and skill expression in wargaming) I've played games in under 45 mins, doesn't mean I'd ever advertise the game that way.
The analysis paralysis player in my LGS drives me crazy. People who agree to a "casual" game but then need to check rules every other activation or talk out multiple different scenarios before commiting to a move are the worst. Lets see some fun stuff happen, and if it was a mistake, well you learned the hard way and can recognize that faster next game
This is me unfortunately. I think it's part of my personality. I really wanted KT to be my game because I wanted a fast paced low model count fun game. But actually, having up to 12 activations a turn with in some rounds a lot of options is kryptonite. 40k and its various sub versions are actually easier in a way because it's more obvious what the play should be for each unit. There the main problem is the endless rolling of dice to do anything...😂
@@HB2K-h8m Just accept you will make bad moves, appreciate it and play on. Mistakes are inherent to the process of learning. You probably make bad moves anyway, just make them faster. You will improve more from playing two games with mistakes than playing one with overanalysing everything in the same time. Don't hold your opponent hostage at the table because of your indecision. Respect their time. It's not a one player game.
@@robertchmielecki2580 Oh, I rarely play KT, for this very reason, only with friends that don't mind taking a little longer. Even then it's 2.5 to 3 hours, not more. But thanks for the advice!
Eh, 45 is very doable; my friends and I play between that and an hour almost every time. This does come with some conditions, the biggest one being the board is already set up, so all we have to do is drop our team and go. We always have everything that can be set up beforehand, done, the layout, the ops, and so on, with who we are bringing and deploying the very last thing before playing. It took us about 2 hours when we were learning. And we are not playing low-count teams, I bring my inquisitorial agents, and most of the time, others bring a minimum of 10 unit teams. Maybe it is because we all used to, and still do play speed chess against each other, so we don't mess around waiting for a move. Usually, the instant the current move is finished, the next one is already being done, and we have a very good idea of what the next 1 or 2 will be. I have played in tournaments where people deliberated forever (at least to me, probably was about 3-5 minutes) on what to do. It was miserable. The only time I ever had a Warhammer game last more than 2 hours (i dont play standard 40k only kill team on the big minis) was when we played Epic 40k back in the 90's we set our own points limits that allowed us to bring our entire armies, and those games could last 6-8 hours. We just don't have that kind of time anymore.
Suuuuure... but when I see noobs asking how long KT takes to play and someone says 45 minutes, it should be a fucking crime, and that was the main point of this video for the noob perspective (and for the more advanced players a discussion on why unforced player errors is the core of fun and excitement and skill expression in wargaming) I've played games in under 45 mins, doesn't mean I'd ever advertise the game that way.
A topic that no new player will ever click on and harmful to the cause (as I've learned form poor performing videos on chess clocks in the past). Got to ease people into time awareness and the excitement of unforced player error
I didn't want to discuss clocks too much because some people are very scared of them as a concept and it tends to lead to a very divisive comments section. It also comes across as a very gamey mechanic that is beyond most people and so newer players are intimidated by the topic and think it's not for them. So I kept it looser and if people want to stay till the end to see my idea of the death clock play, that's great.
@@BB-pn2qv Generally the active player keeps the clock for the full activation unless there's something that the non-active player needs to do that takes significant time. The idea isn't to be pedantic about them but keep the game moving apace.
@GlassHalfDead a gotcha would be not telling your opponent your firefight ploys then when they charge and have rolled you play a ploy to fight first and one to add one to you damage, thus killing them before they strike. An unforced error would be charging someone in a stronghold then being killed because you forgot that they fight first.😉
Most games are very much decided by TP 2 & 3. Although I don't know about dropping the 4th TP as close ones can be decided by those 2 - 4 points that can come from them. I like the deployment idea. Makes TP1 still about positioning and posturing but makes it less likely to be fully cagey and have some kills/trades on the jump
@arianmoore4474 I think the end of turning point would be true in thr last edition, but this edition I would say most games I've played come down to 3 and even 4
@@ScottySpeeks but in those games was TP1 just about moving up and cagey placement? That seems to be the common play TP1 so why not just deploy further and get into those later turns quicker
That's an interesting idea, and I don't hate it! However, KT this edition has made a BIG change to stop turn 1 alpha strikes. Right now, we get to see where those might occur in turn 1 and stage correctly for it to happen in turn 2, and no predeployment shenanigans. If we collectively moved 6" closer than we'd pretty much be playing turn 1 charge AOS Spearhead (without the mechanics to make it kind of work). There might be something in cutting turn 1 from the game though, for sure!
Currently once I have sorted out with my opponent what his team can do what mine can do what 3 missions we are doing, got table all set up picked equipment we are a good 90 min in to the game time once we have played a few more games it might come down some... then we only have 25 more teams to try to learn and then we can think about going to an event.... or I can just play another game. Until you know what your opponents options the games just a mess of whack fuck. GW should have culled more teams.
@@mikefish1124 sadly after the poor reception of my how to play videos I have had to move on from Warmachine on this channel and don't have enough time to run more channels. On the plus side I just managed to track down the Stryker action figure from 2005 and it will soon be sitting behind me on my little display shelf from now on, which is hype for me!
@ yeah just the standard algorithm stuff. I built a channel on almost exclusively kill team and gw, so sinking so much time and effort into anything else was purely a labour of love. I did it and the videos were good, but they didn't perform well. It is what it is. RUclips is all about being hyper niche. Also, in retrospect, although I love the world of Warmachine, and I think the game itself is the best version of what it's trying to be, it isn't actually a game I like. For me personally, I just don't think staying away from alternating activations was the way to go for Warmachine to remain relevant. It's awesome many still like it, but I prefer things a bit different these days.
@@GlassHalfDead ah gotcha. I was sort of waiting for more WM stuff, but if that's not to be, I'll have to move on. I have a dislike of Kill Team, personally, so I suppose it's not really worth sticking around. They were great videos, and thanks much for making them!
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If you like what I do, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/GlassHalfDead
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The sweet spot for the length of a game (not just Kill Team) is between 60 and 90 minutes. Worlds having turning points lasting hours was mentalist stuff.
The rounds weren't that long because it was appropriate. The rounds were that long because Worlds was being run on the Warhammer 40,000 rounds schedule.
@ regardless of the reason it’s still fucked up. GW’s OP team really needs to get its act together.
World's was an orginsational fluff from higherups, of course. Showed the game in a poor light.
However, if you have to do 20 minutes of admin before starting the game, that pushes a 90min game to a 2 hour game. The point of the video was to hopefully break that down a little bit to show that KT doesn't take THAT long if you walk up to an already built table and have no admin to do.
Great stuff Andy. My brother and I are playing casually but it’s taking us hours… AP at its finest indeed.
We’ll try the 20 min clock next time. Thanks! Love your content and humour.
Also, I believe shorts can help with the YT algorithm, but I also want to highlight that your shorts from the “facing X jn killteam” are genuinely funny, Spot on with a great delivery.
Cheers!
The support is very appreciated, thank you!
I didn't mention it in this video because I really didn't want to turn the comments section into a chess clock argument, but I think you'll find that by simply having a chess clock running (and even saying that you won't stop when it times out, simply having it there so you're aware) you will both play much faster. It takes a strange kind of dude to see their timer at 0:00 with their opponent still above 10:00 and to not realise they might have an issue!
Likewise, I have more fun finishing within X time. I don't really care if the game finishes, but if we put an hour on the clock, who cares if we finish TP3
Our local "friendly" 1-day tournaments in Tokyo (with entries just going to cover venue costs, no prizes on the line) are 3-round with a 10 minute talk phase and then chess-clocked with 55 minutes for each player. There's an hour between rounds and players can opt for an untimed round 2 and skip the third round if they're feeling casual.
Given a 30 minute period at the start for setup and stragglers to arrive, that lets 3 rounds get done in 8.5 hours with ample break time.
@@DavidVanCleef I much prefer that sort of thing. I like the tension it brings because you have to start being able to think under pressure, or at the very least have a strategy already thought-through that you stick to as best as possible.
It's like in DnD when your DM starts rolling dice behind the screen while the party is bickering mid-combat. It focuses your attention back on the fact that you're in the middle of a fight, and now is not the time to have an argument with each other 🤣
Andy would scream at our games. We usually take 6 hours for a game, hanging the coats, chatting, changing the music etc. included. But I absolutely want to cut it down to 2.5 hours pure play time.
ps.: Playing an entire game (40-50 activations?) in 60 minutes seems impossible to me.
Hey, if it's a chilled out thing that just happens to be on the table as you socialise, then none of this matters.
I personally like to have a chat, catchup, then play, then have a chat afterwards as well. If I have the game ever present, then you might have me screaming, yes!
6 hrs?!
I... That's a shift at work. I've got things to do! I've got kids to look after, food to cook, groceries to buy, bills to pay...
That how me and my friend have been playing while getting comfortable with the rules. Would be nice to be able to get two games in every time I visit him and I am sure we will get there eventually.
Statically 50 total activations. Things will die by turn 4 probably only 3 or 4 each. Statistically each player will activate 25 times a game. Each activation averages 30-45 seconds so hour to 90mins definitely plenty of time. I switched to killteam for this reason in a game night i can play multiple games and opponents.
@@patrickbrown8340 Realistic time for an activation for us is between one to two minutes. Anything below 45 seconds is only possible if you either don't have to measure anything or don't roll dice.
Partially depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. When my son and I play, we tend to talk out each activation, pointing out options, etc... Maybe the objective is to try to get better at analyzing the board state and recognizing options and opportunities?
This was absolutely fantastic content. It felt like the product of a chain of thought that had brewed long and slow and I really enjoyed it. Top notch stuff!
This vid was almost exclusively me trying to cram in a discussion on why the real enjoyment of a wargame is in unforced player error. Then as a side product let noobs know how long a game of KT should take because a lot of people are expecting a warcry light fast skirmish game. And it really isn't at that level
I want KT to implement turn timers. For experienced players it should take 2 minutes to activate an operative at most.
I appreciate your videos for helping folks get into the game.
Sure, so this ties into a format I did last edition I called "Glass Half Minute". I bought some sandtimers, and by the time the sand is done, you need to start your activation. So it was 1 minute thinking then do your actions fast as possible.
The problem this led to was that if you have 14 models vs 14 models that actually leaves a 4 round game at a potential 2 hour game. And that was still beyond what I wanted to play. Also, and the main issue, is that it's very uneven, giving a horde player potentially 3 times the amount of time to play the game which imo is a bit unfair
@@GlassHalfDead that makes total sense, I'm still learning the teams and trying to get all the rules memorized to speed things up as is.
Thank you for the great videos. Just started playing at the start of last year and your content really helps.
What a ledge, thanks for the support!
my mates and I usually play 4 player games and they can last 5-6 hours. Did a 1v1 recently and even that was like 3-4. We have a great time though. We're all relatively new so I think a lot of the time is spent checking the stats on our weapons/abilities and figuring out cover/obscuring/etc
Definitely a must watch
Most of my games last around the 2 hour mark. With 2 large teams, maybe would take us 2 1/2 hours. Most of my games are chilled, chatting and having a beer.
On the flipside, I have no trouble finishing my games at a Tournament.
I think it depends on your expectations. I expect games to take that amount of time. I play board games like Nemesis that take 3 plus hours (plus 30 mins to set it up). I'm fine with that, as it's what I expect.
If someone wanted me to play a Kill Team game that took 3 and a half hours, I doubt I'd really be in to it.
P.S "Dice will fuck you" 😂 I'm going to put that on a T shirt!
Agree an hour game time with around 15 minutes pre game set up etc is an ideal game length for me. If I remember correctly I think that was roughly how long kill team 18 took.
Yes, KT18 was a much faster game. I even remember the tournament times. If you were playing Core the game was 60mins, if you added elites you went 75. Tournaments would regularly push that by +15, but people still consistently finished their games. Much faster system, indeed.
Good advice. great video
Big yes to anything hitting past 3 hours is beyond me.
The problem for me is that it really is ANYTHING these days. It's why I struggle with 40k. I checkout waaaay before the end.
Loving the kill team/spongebob crossover content...
It's how I hook the 9 year old demographic...
Oh sorry, spongebob fans are my age now. RIP oldheads
Excellent video! I would second the idea of doing a doom clock game
Doom clock is a much better term because death clock already exists and doesn't mean what I claimed it means here lol xD
I play somewhat comp with my mates and we last 1:30-2:30. Newer players games last up to 4? But my brother and I who play against eachother frequently (1-6 games a week) comfortably get under 2 hour games (not counting set up) so game one 2:30 ish, then the rest much shorter
ketamine references in my kill team video? its more likely than you think!
I would love to get to an hour. We usually take like 3 and it is way to much but we are also beginners.
Play with a chess clock, not as a hard limit but just to see how much time it takes you to perform moves. Often it's not everybody that's responsible for stalling, just some players, and they are usually not even aware they are doing that.
As I say in the video, that's simple the barrier to entry that a manual ruleset puts upon its players. If you're two new players there's literally no way around it without assigning serious grinding and homework to learning things, and if you're doing that, might as well just play those longer games more.
Putting yourself on a clock COULD help, but it depends where you are. If analysis paralysis is the problem then it's a great help, but if you're both checking core rules and not getting those 90% right, and still shaky on your team rules, then a clock isn't for you YET.
@@GlassHalfDead I have to say your videos help alot. For example we thought that as long as one is within 1" of cover he is in cover even with direct LOS. We even joked how stupid that rule is. Turns out we are the stupid ones.
@@demacherius1 Oh mate, the number of times a rule changes when you read the WHOLE rule. It's outrageous, honestly. So many times, my brain switches off half way through reading and I've read so many rules I fill in the end of the rule... then I read it fully and realise I got it wrong lol
Taught the game to some friends and their take away was "doe it always takes this long?" 😂
It's such an awkward question, I know. It's great to say "when you know the system and your opponent and you really focus in, you can finish it in 45 mins!" but then you tell them how long it takes to get to that level... awkward
indeed, props for a good thumbnail
It took a lot of restraint! I went with a minis shot I had lying around from Hivestorm instead
I don't disagree with your main point here but that last 30 seconds of your video is why timed matches never seem to work. Since in a tournament you can't just play somebody else if you get an hour and a half match limit and your opponent takes 4 hours for a typical game even if you do everything right and win that game you're still losing that tournament because there is no way of effectively scoring the single round you make it through with that opponent.
Chess clocks are an answer but only if everyone is using them and there are actual rules for how to handle the game when one of the two players goes over the allotted time.
Yes, I completely agree with you. I am 100% on the chess clock mandatory train. HOWEVER in the past my chess clock videos do not perform well. they are intimidating and new players believe they are not for them (which is correct obviously). So we need to ease people into an awareness of time and the excitement of forcing player error.
We measure our games in number of beers and snacks consumed, it's probably part of the imperial system
Close. It's the imperium system
@@Mandrewlochner No, that would track amasec not beer.
Maybe the team sizes should be cut down to limit the length of the game. Like ten units max for all teams. This might mean some types of units are just not seen in the game but maybe also forces balance in an ideal situation.
How long will you take a) looking up rules in the ridiculously bloated Book of Badly-Worded Regulations?
And b) how long will you spend bickering with your friend because of how Badly-Worded the Book of Badly-Worded Regulations was worded.
I actually just enjoy reading so deliberately get into rules debates so I have an excuse
@GlassHalfDead I prefer to get the game out of the way so I can go back to my book, personally 😂
Andy, something I couldn’t find in your last video (probably my fault I’m sure you explained) but if an operative is in cover behind heavy terrain is it obscured and in cover or just in cover?
How about an activation clock? Eg no decision within a few minutes activation lost
I did this in the last edition. It was called "Glass Half Minute". I bought some hourglass timers of 1 minute, and you have until the sand runs out to begin your activation. the problem here is that a 14 model team still has 14 minutes to begin activations, plus another minute or so to do their activation and actually it turns out that's too long!
@GlassHalfDead cool thank you
Its possible on a hour lunch break, if everything was set up beforehand :)
Suuuuure... but when I see noobs asking how long KT takes to play and someone says 1 hour, that person should be banned from talking to new players and sued for false advertising, and that was the main point of this video for the noob perspective (and for the more advanced players a discussion on why unforced player errors is the core of fun and excitement and skill expression in wargaming)
I've played games in under 45 mins, doesn't mean I'd ever advertise the game that way.
i think my first game lasted just over 3 hours with myself and a friend both learning the game, our 2nd game was roughly the same (was a 3 player game) but overall was very fun
How long does KT take, well my Phobos end TP4 in 20-40 mins in tournaments. This is not the norm for KT but this is the only example I can think of coming under 45 mins.
Suuuuure... but when I see noobs asking how long KT takes to play and someone says 45 minutes, it should be a fucking crime, and that was the main point of this video for the noob perspective (and for the more advanced players a discussion on why unforced player errors is the core of fun and excitement and skill expression in wargaming)
I've played games in under 45 mins, doesn't mean I'd ever advertise the game that way.
Those dice are huge! 😂
So we can see them! Loud and proud! No mistaking those 6s
The analysis paralysis player in my LGS drives me crazy. People who agree to a "casual" game but then need to check rules every other activation or talk out multiple different scenarios before commiting to a move are the worst. Lets see some fun stuff happen, and if it was a mistake, well you learned the hard way and can recognize that faster next game
This is me unfortunately. I think it's part of my personality. I really wanted KT to be my game because I wanted a fast paced low model count fun game. But actually, having up to 12 activations a turn with in some rounds a lot of options is kryptonite.
40k and its various sub versions are actually easier in a way because it's more obvious what the play should be for each unit. There the main problem is the endless rolling of dice to do anything...😂
@@HB2K-h8m Just accept you will make bad moves, appreciate it and play on. Mistakes are inherent to the process of learning. You probably make bad moves anyway, just make them faster. You will improve more from playing two games with mistakes than playing one with overanalysing everything in the same time.
Don't hold your opponent hostage at the table because of your indecision. Respect their time. It's not a one player game.
@@robertchmielecki2580 Oh, I rarely play KT, for this very reason, only with friends that don't mind taking a little longer. Even then it's 2.5 to 3 hours, not more. But thanks for the advice!
It takes us about 2.5 hours.
If that includes setting up, that's the same for me!
Eh, 45 is very doable; my friends and I play between that and an hour almost every time. This does come with some conditions, the biggest one being the board is already set up, so all we have to do is drop our team and go. We always have everything that can be set up beforehand, done, the layout, the ops, and so on, with who we are bringing and deploying the very last thing before playing. It took us about 2 hours when we were learning. And we are not playing low-count teams, I bring my inquisitorial agents, and most of the time, others bring a minimum of 10 unit teams. Maybe it is because we all used to, and still do play speed chess against each other, so we don't mess around waiting for a move. Usually, the instant the current move is finished, the next one is already being done, and we have a very good idea of what the next 1 or 2 will be. I have played in tournaments where people deliberated forever (at least to me, probably was about 3-5 minutes) on what to do. It was miserable. The only time I ever had a Warhammer game last more than 2 hours (i dont play standard 40k only kill team on the big minis) was when we played Epic 40k back in the 90's we set our own points limits that allowed us to bring our entire armies, and those games could last 6-8 hours. We just don't have that kind of time anymore.
Suuuuure... but when I see noobs asking how long KT takes to play and someone says 45 minutes, it should be a fucking crime, and that was the main point of this video for the noob perspective (and for the more advanced players a discussion on why unforced player errors is the core of fun and excitement and skill expression in wargaming)
I've played games in under 45 mins, doesn't mean I'd ever advertise the game that way.
Chess clocks ⏰️
A topic that no new player will ever click on and harmful to the cause (as I've learned form poor performing videos on chess clocks in the past). Got to ease people into time awareness and the excitement of unforced player error
A death clock game sounds good!
Chess clocks being used this edition?
I didn't want to discuss clocks too much because some people are very scared of them as a concept and it tends to lead to a very divisive comments section. It also comes across as a very gamey mechanic that is beyond most people and so newer players are intimidated by the topic and think it's not for them. So I kept it looser and if people want to stay till the end to see my idea of the death clock play, that's great.
@@BB-pn2qv We're using them even in a casual environment as a learning tool to keep your play at a steady pace, not a punishment.
@ legit curious how to use clocks effectively in the game. Do you tap or pause when rolling saves? Etc.
@@BB-pn2qv Generally the active player keeps the clock for the full activation unless there's something that the non-active player needs to do that takes significant time. The idea isn't to be pedantic about them but keep the game moving apace.
@ ahh thanks!
credit where it's due +1
Player errors are not the same as gotchas!
I expect your dissertation on the difference between a gotcha and an unforced error on my desk this afternoon!
@GlassHalfDead a gotcha would be not telling your opponent your firefight ploys then when they charge and have rolled you play a ploy to fight first and one to add one to you damage, thus killing them before they strike.
An unforced error would be charging someone in a stronghold then being killed because you forgot that they fight first.😉
Is 1-1,5hr really too long ?
@@fromization1 no that sounds pretty spot on!
Playing a new team every 2 games or so
Hoody
Gloves
Melter
That hoody and gloves combo is awful. You look like a mining NPC in a game. Look at yourself and reconsider taking another breath.
Why am I always spend 6h for learning ? 😅
Honestly, learning wargames is really not easy
Should the game just be 3 turning points but with a slightly bigger drop zone (say 3" bigger) 🤔
Most games are very much decided by TP 2 & 3. Although I don't know about dropping the 4th TP as close ones can be decided by those 2 - 4 points that can come from them.
I like the deployment idea. Makes TP1 still about positioning and posturing but makes it less likely to be fully cagey and have some kills/trades on the jump
@arianmoore4474 I think the end of turning point would be true in thr last edition, but this edition I would say most games I've played come down to 3 and even 4
@@ScottySpeeks but in those games was TP1 just about moving up and cagey placement? That seems to be the common play TP1 so why not just deploy further and get into those later turns quicker
That's an interesting idea, and I don't hate it! However, KT this edition has made a BIG change to stop turn 1 alpha strikes. Right now, we get to see where those might occur in turn 1 and stage correctly for it to happen in turn 2, and no predeployment shenanigans. If we collectively moved 6" closer than we'd pretty much be playing turn 1 charge AOS Spearhead (without the mechanics to make it kind of work). There might be something in cutting turn 1 from the game though, for sure!
@@GlassHalfDead that's a very valid counterpoint
tldr: chess clock lmao
I’ve taken anywhere from 45 minutes to 7 hours.
Lunch break...in Ratling terms
Thank you, I hate that thumbnail face crap.
Currently once I have sorted out with my opponent what his team can do what mine can do what 3 missions we are doing, got table all set up picked equipment we are a good 90 min in to the game time once we have played a few more games it might come down some... then we only have 25 more teams to try to learn and then we can think about going to an event.... or I can just play another game. Until you know what your opponents options the games just a mess of whack fuck. GW should have culled more teams.
Is that why you shave your head? For speed???
Who cares about Kill Team - make more Warmachine content!!!
@@mikefish1124 sadly after the poor reception of my how to play videos I have had to move on from Warmachine on this channel and don't have enough time to run more channels.
On the plus side I just managed to track down the Stryker action figure from 2005 and it will soon be sitting behind me on my little display shelf from now on, which is hype for me!
@GlassHalfDead poor reaction? I thought they went over ok? Or are your followers just not interested in other stuff
@ yeah just the standard algorithm stuff. I built a channel on almost exclusively kill team and gw, so sinking so much time and effort into anything else was purely a labour of love. I did it and the videos were good, but they didn't perform well. It is what it is. RUclips is all about being hyper niche.
Also, in retrospect, although I love the world of Warmachine, and I think the game itself is the best version of what it's trying to be, it isn't actually a game I like.
For me personally, I just don't think staying away from alternating activations was the way to go for Warmachine to remain relevant. It's awesome many still like it, but I prefer things a bit different these days.
@@GlassHalfDead ah gotcha. I was sort of waiting for more WM stuff, but if that's not to be, I'll have to move on. I have a dislike of Kill Team, personally, so I suppose it's not really worth sticking around. They were great videos, and thanks much for making them!
Deadzone and halo flashpoint play much faster and are better games.