First step however is, make sure you conceptually dismiss the idea that the value of the car stays solid when the car has been serviced solely at the dealer. The reality is, an idependent shop with a couple of guys having the heart and passion for the brand possibly do a better job at taking care of things you might not want to or can than the dealer.
I don't disagree but my Porsche dealer's service shop gives me a better deal on everything than any local Porsche shop but that's only because I've been doing so much service on many porsches and they built two race cars and I've become friends with them, and they are the #1 dealer in the country and have been rated that for a long time (not alt and not L.A., curious if you can guess). But in my experience at other dealers it was a nightmare so I do agree a local Porsche shop is probably generally a better deal.
all the porsche mechanics i've met in person love their jobs. i'd rather work with the guy who only works on porsches than a guy who has to work on 30 different cars. You can be an expert at one thing, not everything.
Have owned my 997 for 10 years and haven’t taken it to a shop for anything but tire mounting and alignments. Maintenance and many repairs are very doable DIY’s thanks to Rennlist and RUclips. Part of the enjoyment of owning the car for me is the satisfaction of maintaining it myself and learning how the car is engineered. Many including Will don’t have the time, interest or confidence - but know if you DIY these cars can actually be very inexpensive to own. Love your videos Will and collaboration with Nathan really look forward to watching.
I am with you . I have owned 7 911 s I do every thing my self I don’t want any one tuching my car . I bought a 99.1 S used with 80,000 miles on it on the way home from the dealer, the engine light came on. I took it to Porsche to have the brakes done and to fix the engine light my first visit to the dealer I spent $1000 for them to fix the engine light. They said we have to look into it further we couldn’t find the problem, so I found it myself. I took the rear bumper off to change the air filter and found one of the vacuum lines Was put on incorrectly when the last guy changed the air filter problems solved so even a Porsche mechanic may not be mechanically inclined.
I just purchased my dream Porsche. A 2014 Turbo S. Only had 4,600 miles on it. It’s been a few months and I just love it. Stretched my budget to make it work cause you only live life once.
I had a 2014 991 Turbo S… was my best purchase.. best bang for the buck. The 991.2 Turbo S is waaay overpriced $50K more and a 992 Turbo S is just ridiculous priced. Congrats!
Our local Porsche dealer is typically 6-8 weeks out on appointments...ridiculous! As a result, I have been doing all of my own maintenance and repairs and have learned a lot and quite enjoy it. My 997 is very easy to work on - no different than most cars, really. On a related note about following the owners manual maintenance schedule...use your own common sense and don't overlook anything. My 997 owners manual says change oil and filter every 20,000 miles! Are you kidding me??? I change it every 5,000!
As someone that has bought and sold air-cooled and water cooled 911's the past 14yrs I appreciate the sentiment from Nathan: they have become toys for the wealthy. Facts! Dealerships and independent shops have suddenly started charging $150-$250/hr because people pay it. They might be paying the techs $30-50/hr and shop owners reap the benefits. Free world I guess, but damn the greed is real. Sweet color and sweet 991.1. I love the style and look of this refreshed 911 in it's day. Thanks for continuing sharing your content, and seeing the channel grow Will. Love to meet up next time you're in the PNW.
Nathan, your presentation and explanation of Porsches is impeccable. I bought a 2014 981 Cayman in 2018. The color of the car, Amaranth Red Metallic sold me. I have managed to stay away from the dealership and establish a great relationship with an Indy around the corner. They are so close that I can hear dyno tests while washing my Porsche in my driveway. I have followed the owner’s manual service recommendation from the day I bought. No problems at all. I have added performance headers and have a Carnewal GT Exhaust on order🏎
If someone is looking for an excellent value in a 991 you guys picked it with this car. The key for the next owner is to first find a good independent Porsche mechanic even if they decide to DYI basic maintenance. Join PCA and get references from fellow members. Some people have a dream to one day own a Porsche, but they aren’t mechanically inclined, so they error to the overly cautious side and follow every recommendation the service writer makes. Then they get a little burned by the experience because they ended up over paying for simply service. We’ll done Will and another humble thank you to Nathan. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I have not taken any of my vehicles to a dealer for anything in nearly 20 years. You can do things yourself or you can find another way. The higher end the brand the more they rely on service to make money.
I just got a 2009 Porsche Boxster Base 987.2 with 7 speed Automatic PDK and there's under 50k miles. I've never owned one of these cars before. Doing the oil change and replacing spark plugs was very simple and very necessary. I'm glad I have experience working on cars. I've been taking great care of it so far, and driving it never gets old. It's a car I've been wanting since I was a kid.
Bought a 991.1 with a CPO warranty and had one headlight replaced due to delam and cracking on the headlight. For the 40K service I took it to a very well respected third party service center who on looking the car noticed that the rear spoiler bracket had broken on both sides. I did take the car in prior to the CPO ending its term and made a complaint mentioning that the spoiler wasn’t working ? The spoiler did lift but not all the way. The service tech at Porsche then noticed that the CPO warranty checklist was not identified in the system which was even more concerning. I don’t think that all dealership are completely honest 😡. Good job I love this car, but will never return to buy another car from Porche North Scottsddale !!
You know, that was my experience in person. At first I was like “man, that’s not a great color” but by the end of the day I was thinking I would enjoy owning a car that color.
Personally I have my handyman perform all service on my 991.1. RUclips is great to learn tool. Knowing someone who can wrench is golden. These cars are not that complex for regular service items...
I'm thinking of buying a used 911 for my retirement gift to myself. I really want a 991.1 S or 4S coupe. When the time comes I'm going try and buy one from him. Every tome I see a video with Nate in it he just seems like a great guy. And has great knowledge of these cars.
2007 Carrera S needed a brakejob -new rotors and pads. An independent German car shop waqnted 2600 (appprox) The Porsche dealer wanted 3700. I watched many how - to videos on u tube. Figured how to do it myself. Total cost was 790.00
I'm so glad I came across this video. I always feel intimidated when I'm at the service department since I'm a first time Porsche owner. Last year in October a rep. told me I need to change my brake pads (as it has 2 inches left) but I said no and said to postpone it to this month of May simply because I was leaving for vacation in a few days then and my insurance will end a week after I leave. The car will be in winter storage then. The guy's unhappy demeanor was obvious. I can't help suspecting he may get a cut from that big job and now he lost it. I will be particular about this from now. I drive only 2,000 km per year.
Great video. Post warranty and with 140k on the odometer on my 2010 Boxster I’ve done routine services and a couple of mods with an excellent and good value local independent repair shop. Many services & mods I’ve been able to do myself with no risk to the car or my ego. Result, a very affordable and rewarding experience.
I've never spent a single day in the Porsche space but love this type of content. Very educational/informative for your average gear head. I'd have never thought the recommended replacement interval for the spark plugs was 40000 miles?!
On 991.2 (17-19) because of turbos it’s 30k mile/4 year, and it’s a little more of a pain to do the spark plugs because of the turbos too. Most cars, due to not being driven enough, end up needing the spark plugs done because of the time interval and not the mileage. Because of that the more miserly owners are reluctant to do the service because of cost, “it only has 15k miles, I’ll just defer for now..” then sell the car, having never done the 4 year service, so now a new owner has a 5-6 year old car that didn’t have the plugs pulled. Fingers crossed the plugs aren’t going to rip the threads out because of galvanic corrosion, the reason Porsche specifies a 4year time interval. So, people shopping these, remember, buy the seller first and the car second. If the seller deferred maintenance, consider that for what headaches that can give you.
Different people buy cars for different reasons. I personally like to do all the service on 981 myself, I believe you get to really know and understand your car inside out e.g. I used to take my car to the dealer for service in the beginning (as a novice first time Porsche buyer, I was often scared to touch anything) then when I first grew a pair to service the car myself, I found service advisers didn't put screws back correctly, so I started correcting a lot of the things by looking at workshop manual, youtube videos and reading threads. So in ways my car made me a more capable human, I learnt and now I have a new skill. BTW this goes for any sort of thing you own. Cheers to all
My 991.1 is in the shop now for an oil change, new rear tires, new rear wheel bearings, and an alignment. Pretty expensive, but all things that must be done. I totally agree with not over servicing the car. Porsche gave me another $3k of recommended maintenance that was BS in my opinion. They want over $200 to change windshield wiper blades (of course I declined). Getting taken advantage of never feels good.
Excellent video! Although I have long ago(1989) left my 911 wife for my Ferrari mistress(s) it's interesting to note that what is discussed here applies to all other makes, not just dream sport cars.
Will, love you channel, been watching all your videos, great job on quality of content, and please have Nathan on more, he's fantastic, seen many of his videos on the PCA channel, as he has such a high level of experience and competence with Porsche its always a great learning experience. I have a question for Nathan: I have a 2009 C2S with 27k miles with a PDK, (first year). I have heard Nathan say that maintenance on the PDK is so important as they are uber expensive to replace. When should an owner of a well maintained 997.2 car do a PDK service, and should I have both fluids changed with the cover (no track time and the car is not a daily driver)? I have done every service this car in the video has had, in my home shop on my lift (I have a lot of tools). Also, I'd like to have a record of the repair with dealer receipts for this type of PDK service. What is a good mileage to have the PDK service done on a car that is 13 years old with low mileage such as mine? I don't mind paying for this service to have it done properly, just don't want to do it too soon and waste my money kind of what the whole point of this video is. Thanks for any advice
Thanks for this. I’m about to go get a 991.1, I’m a huge DIY’er owning 3 BMW’s base and M’s, but nervous about getting raked for items that I have the skill sets for.
I have a 991.1 which has only been to the dealer once. They can keep there $500-600 oil changes. Some indy's are expensive also rent is expensive. I diy myself. Plugs are easy on a 991.1 not so much on a 991.2 with the turbos. If you are a huge DIY'err it shouldn't be an issue. Biggest expense is tires 2-3k. That 11k of service could have been diy for a few hundred. rennlist forum will give you all the info you need.
@@rayz8000 Thanks for that, yes, extreme DIY. dropping subframes, oil pan gaskets, full cooling system overhaul’s etc…. Looking forward to the 991.1 driving more and less worrying:)
I have a lift and change my own oil, changed the coolant, the brake pads and fluid. Do the brake pads before you hit the brake wear sensors, so you don’t have to replace them. A friend has had a number of 911s, his point to me was, get over it, it’s just a car. I had an air bag light come on, I borrowed a OBD2 scanner and cleared the code, the dealer cost would have been easily $500-$700.
991.1 great car I owned a C4 7 speed Sorry I traded it Always had it serviced by my local specialty shop The same people that serviced my 356 and 964 Was about 3/4 of the price for service
This was awesome. One question I have though is whether there’s any downside to doing my own maintenance. I’m capable of it and I can save a lot of money doing my own maintenance but doing so doesn’t get recorded on the CarFax. Is there any way around that, other than just keeping my own log book that I could show a future owner when I go to sell it?
Very informative! Quick question, for modern Porsches do you recommend oil changes at 5K mile intervals vs the 10K miles recommended by Porsche? I would feel uncomfortable having an oil change interval as long as 10K miles.
10k is too high, specially for city driving. Lots of acid will build up in the oil. Once per year is too long. I would do every 6 months, or every 7000k max, which ever comes first.
@@olasek7972 Lasts for 20K miles? What type of driving? What weather condition? all hwy miles or city driving? if it lasts for 20k miles, then why don't you keep the same oil for 20K miles in your engine? ha? What are you talking about?
i still have my first porsche, a boxster. when i bought it 15 years ago my first "service" at 2000 km cost me $600! the dealer has never seen my car since then. find yourself an independent mechanic and follow the manual. if you err, err on the side of more frequent oil changes -- at least each year.
There is no part of the regular service of a Porsche that even an average owner cannot do themselves. Even the typical additional items - belts, coils, water pumps / thermostats and pulleys, control arms, AOS - are well within the reach of just about any owner with some patience and an interest in learning about their car. Of course there's nothing wrong with paying either a dealer or an indie to do the work for you, but then you're missing out on 80% of the fun of owning and driving the car in the first place.
I mean, I totally completely respect where you’re coming from but maybe some people just don’t enjoy that type of activity. So, while the work is 80% of the enjoyment for you, that might not be the case for others. Thanks for watching!
Great video with solid advice. The only problem with servicing your car through an independent comes down the road when you go to trade or sell it. Potential owners will always pick and pay more for a car serviced by an authorized Porsche centre. I hate paying €1000 for an oil and brake fluid change but I know I will get some of that back in the future.
From a European / UK perspective, it’s sound advice but doesn’t address - if I was listening intently enough - why Porsche AG ‘recommends’ what & when to service. I bought a 991.2 new from an OPC, in fact their UK HQ. It’s nearly 7 years old and has an extended warranty which I will maintain until you can no longer renew: ie 15 years maximum. All servicing is carried out by the same supplying OPC in order to maintain not just the car but the contractural requirements of the warranty. Stuff that is clearly defined by the warranty contract itself that falls outside of ‘mandatory’ - like tyres, pads, refrigerant, exhaust fasteners etc - I get an independent to provide, a shop set up and staffed by ex-Porsche trained technicians who wanted freedom from Porsche AG’s Mothership. Doing it this way is, of course, not for everyone but you get peace of mind, it’s actually reasonably priced and you avoid the feeling of being milked by the dealer. Yes, the service advisors (and God knows they come & go) don’t like you playing the system but so long as you fulfill your warranty T&Cs you get all you need without paying for extra ‘fat’.
I own a 1996 speed yellow 993 coupe, & very much appreciate this content. I have a friend who wants to go on Rally's but he's not a person who should be trying to fit a Porsche into his budget, so may I ask, what is the least expensive 911 (not Boxter or Cayman) going forward from 1999, would that be a base model 996?
I have heard that manufacturer recommended services on modern cars are often less than ideal for the life of the car because they are meeting or exceeding EPA goals/requirements by stating the car needs less fluid exchanges than would be ideal. Not sure if this is true, but seems like it makes sense. Personally, I would not exceed 5K miles on an oil change, no matter the age or condition of the car. Even if it's less than ideal for the environment.
Great content. Tough to find a good Indy shop. Recently went to a highly recommended shop, and they refused to do work on car, because some other work had already been done by a different shop, and they felt it would impact overall quality. It was a very strange interaction, literally tried to give them $10k to make it right. It’s a 996, and they continue to say the cost of work, versus car value just isn’t there. I think they simply just want AC work, and not interested in 996 era.
This is the fundamental problem with Indy’s, especially the air cooled shops: They can afford to do things like what you’re talking about. Demand is so high and frankly I think some of them start believing their own PR because of it that some customers are just turned away…or wait months for jobs that should take less than 1 weeks.
@@Rennthusiastthat’s the conclusion I came around to. They originally said “bring it in it’s our slow time of year”, perhaps that was the red flag. Once it was there it sat, it took two weeks for them to call and tell me deviation numbers, which I already knew. Ended up getting oil changed, and now looking for new shop for some preventive maintenance. Frustrating, and I told them as much. I’ve never had a car that I’m willing to spend thousands of dollars on, and been denied service.
i have a 991.2 and have had the car for 3 years now. I've been to the dealer only once for an oil change. they cost between 3-4x of going to an independent porsche mechanic. the place i take it to works exclusively on porsches and doesn't try to upsell me on things. the dealer at the time of my visit recommended i change all the tires. when i went to the indy porsche shop A YEAR LATER he truly looked puzzled. the current tires are about 2300 miles old have only been used on a freeway and are nowhere needing to be replaced.
Keep an eye on that water pump. It will fail…but luckily Porsche put a 10 year warranty on it bc it is so widespread and obviously a manufacturing error.
$63k is very reasonable for this car. I make $110k per year, live pretty cheap. And I’m still mentally unsure if I can Eve. Afford a 996,997, 991.1. LOL. Porsche is definitely out of reach even for me. I’m looking at some 996 C4S and 997.1 CS. It’s even harder finding ones with good history. 😢.
You only live once….at least that’s how I live. When it’s all said and done and I reflect back on my life I don’t want to regret not chasing my dreams and experiencing something I really, really enjoyed.
Never believe the service adviser as I was told my brakes needed replacing. Took the car to a trusted independent garage and was told "yes discs have a slight lip but brakes are fine for 1000 miles plus. I would get a Porsche service every 2 years if you do low mileage and oil change yourself or local garage.
I love rich guys who the only car stuff they know is what service they get done on their 10 Porsche I don’t even have one YET and know all this I also know after I spend 90-120k I’m not letting some pissed off kid at the dealer touch my investment It’s still a car if you can turn a wrench you can do most of the service And as far as air cooled The fun of owning it is pulling everything out rebuilding it better and faster Sure some of it you outsource but the fun of ownership is disassembling that flat 6 case cams and all
Geez, if part of that $11k of 24 mos of maintenance items was tires from the dealer, that's probably $3k right there. No need to get N rated tires if you are just driving back and forth to the office.
I have a 2014 in Amaranth Red, with PDK. Looks almost the same (it has S type wheels from that year). It looks brand new inside and out. After the PPI I bought it a year ago from a PCA member for 60K. It had 39,000 miles. Owner asked 62k but since he advised it was going to need a brake job we settled on 60k. It has a good service record history. After I bought the car I took it to another independent mechanic recommended by the local PCA members and got another "PPI" just to confirm the status; all was ok in great condition but a new brake job within a year was recommended. The only Porsche reliable independent mechanic has a shop an hour and a half away. I decided to establish a maintenance base line and maintain a good service file so I took it to the local Porsche dealer for a 4-wheel brake job plus a 40,000 mile service. Cost me about $4500 (Ouch) but I am very happy with the service I received. The car is like brand new and it runs great. Daily driver. Next service is an oil change. Question: how often, if ever, should I add a PEA brew (like Chevron Techron and the like) to the gas? Every oil change? More often?
Through google, I figured out he is Nathan Mers of Columbia Valley Luxury Cars in Washington State. He’s super impressive. Wish my a Porsche salesman was that guy!
Over servicing or been over sold on service is a common tactic at any dealership. Service Advisors are Salespeople. Over sold service happens more with women. Service Advisors sold fear.
As a former 911 owner (and current C8 owner), I’m no longer interested in any vehicle where the dealer/manufacturer charges PUNITIVE service/parts rates.
I hear you…but at the same time Chev isn’t known for quality. I’ve owned a few and know about this personally. For example, a last gen suburban needing an engine rebuild at 80,000 miles. Basically you’ll pay as much for service on that C8 as you would in a 911. It’ll just show up in the form of more trips with smaller dollar amounts more quickly.
@@Rennthusiast That’s not even remotely true at all. Porsche parts AND service is multiples higher than Chevy. And the quality on my C8 is amazing. Almost 2 years with zero problems or expense. Fit and finish is great. Sure, the paint on the 911 is better, but a P car is tens of thousands of dollars more, and the base Stingray will runs circles around a base 911 all day long.
@@Rennthusiast Lol. Until you take the time to in-snoot your nose and ACTUALLY drive the C8, you won’t get it. The C8 will SMOKE the 911 and do it for a lot less money. You should definitely spend some seat time in a C8 so you know what you’re talking about.
@biffbifford402 I’m not going to debate with you about this. Your fixation on “smoking” a 911 is of no interest to me because I’m not here to race. Classic CAM guy hahaha. Congratulations, though….you can mash the pedal all the way to the floor. Now skedaddle. Just because I don’t think your car is better doesn’t mean you need to start an argument.
My Porsche had 7000 miles on it the dealership screed me out of my first oil change and charged me $250 then at 7,000 miles they try to hit me with $3500 maintenance service feeling like I’m getting scammed
Yea but I've tracked every Porsche I've owned and i can't imagine not taking your Porsche to the track so that changes your service intensity and intervals. I assume you're talking about a Porsche that isn't tracked. To each their own but I can't imagine not tracking a Porsche.
To be fair though, 11k is still more maintenance than I have done on my Boxster Spyder in the last two years and I also track it, so I do agree that 11k is way too much on maintenance though it is probably a good selling point. I generally just have to replace brakes, rotars, and tires, though my Pagint ESL pads last forever as they are enduro pads so honestly even tracking my Spyder isn't that much extra on maintenance. I likely do a few extra fluid changes but luckily my local dealer's service department loves me and charges me about 50% less than the typical customer that comes in. However, my relationship with my local service department has been cultivated over 10 years and they built two race cars for me, so it is true that other dealers I don't get that kind of loyalty discount. Love the channel btw. I think you know a good friend of mine, Joe Rothman.
That 4,000 miles for me would have been one oil change, that’s it, and I would have done it myself. It’s actually easier on my 992 than it was on my VW. An alignment would be totally unnecessary unless there’s a reason to think it’s necessary. Air filters don’t go bad just because of time. Same with spark plugs. This person wasted a lot of money.
The guy that sold that Porsche probably hated it because it was a money pit and will never buy another Porsche nor will he recommend one. The dealership is just damaging the name.
Porsche dealers are absolute crooks. Recently I had a VERY minimal part that needed to be replaced under warranty, and it took 3 visits to do it. They are cheating the customer and cheating the Porsche warranty service.
Watched it twice…where’s the advice on saving money on service (besides not doing it early)? I think he got cut off at 7:47, just when he was going to give us his main point…
Unbelievably it’s simply to reference the owner’s manual and follow the maintenance schedule recommended by Porsche. Dealer service folks will tend to oversell you.
So many cowboy mechanics out there! I have been stung by alleged Porsche Specialists in the past! Make sure the people you go to have a good reputation. Otherwise they will just take you for whatever they can. Avoid dwporsche uk!
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
Nathan has been very diplomatic in basically saying, find yourself a good independent shop and avoid the dealers!!!! 👍🏻
My thoughts EXACTLY!!
First step however is, make sure you conceptually dismiss the idea that the value of the car stays solid when the car has been serviced solely at the dealer. The reality is, an idependent shop with a couple of guys having the heart and passion for the brand possibly do a better job at taking care of things you might not want to or can than the dealer.
I don't disagree but my Porsche dealer's service shop gives me a better deal on everything than any local Porsche shop but that's only because I've been doing so much service on many porsches and they built two race cars and I've become friends with them, and they are the #1 dealer in the country and have been rated that for a long time (not alt and not L.A., curious if you can guess). But in my experience at other dealers it was a nightmare so I do agree a local Porsche shop is probably generally a better deal.
all the porsche mechanics i've met in person love their jobs. i'd rather work with the guy who only works on porsches than a guy who has to work on 30 different cars. You can be an expert at one thing, not everything.
Have owned my 997 for 10 years and haven’t taken it to a shop for anything but tire mounting and alignments. Maintenance and many repairs are very doable DIY’s thanks to Rennlist and RUclips. Part of the enjoyment of owning the car for me is the satisfaction of maintaining it myself and learning how the car is engineered. Many including Will don’t have the time, interest or confidence - but know if you DIY these cars can actually be very inexpensive to own.
Love your videos Will and collaboration with Nathan really look forward to watching.
Thank you for commenting 🙏🏼
I agree as well. I’ve owned my 987.1 for about 7 years and it is very doable for DIY folks. Great way to get to know your car and save money as well.
So true i have a 996 and also been learning to do my own maintenance! 👍
I am with you . I have owned 7 911 s I do every thing my self I don’t want any one tuching my car . I bought a 99.1 S used with 80,000 miles on it on the way home from the dealer, the engine light came on. I took it to Porsche to have the brakes done and to fix the engine light my first visit to the dealer I spent $1000 for them to fix the engine light. They said we have to look into it further we couldn’t find the problem, so I found it myself. I took the rear bumper off to change the air filter and found one of the vacuum lines Was put on incorrectly when the last guy changed the air filter problems solved so even a Porsche mechanic may not be mechanically inclined.
any specific channels you really recommend for 911 diy?
Nathan has this incredible style that blends big knowledge with a simple style of communicating. Well done.
I just purchased my dream Porsche. A 2014 Turbo S. Only had 4,600 miles on it. It’s been a few months and I just love it. Stretched my budget to make it work cause you only live life once.
Congratulations bud. Pls enjoy it and share the love. Good on ya.
@@m0d. appreciate it my man
I agree 💯, and I am doing the same 🏎
I had a 2014 991 Turbo S… was my best purchase.. best bang for the buck. The 991.2 Turbo S is waaay overpriced $50K more and a 992 Turbo S is just ridiculous priced. Congrats!
@@DxModel219 thank you! I love the tail lights of the 991.2 but not worth an additional $40K!
What a beautiful example... the colour, the wheels, the chrome window accents. All it needs to be perfect is a manual transmission. 🤩
63k$ for this 991.1 sounds like a great deal! Well done Nathan! 👍
Our local Porsche dealer is typically 6-8 weeks out on appointments...ridiculous! As a result, I have been doing all of my own maintenance and repairs and have learned a lot and quite enjoy it. My 997 is very easy to work on - no different than most cars, really. On a related note about following the owners manual maintenance schedule...use your own common sense and don't overlook anything. My 997 owners manual says change oil and filter every 20,000 miles! Are you kidding me??? I change it every 5,000!
As someone that has bought and sold air-cooled and water cooled 911's the past 14yrs I appreciate the sentiment from Nathan: they have become toys for the wealthy. Facts! Dealerships and independent shops have suddenly started charging $150-$250/hr because people pay it. They might be paying the techs $30-50/hr and shop owners reap the benefits. Free world I guess, but damn the greed is real. Sweet color and sweet 991.1. I love the style and look of this refreshed 911 in it's day. Thanks for continuing sharing your content, and seeing the channel grow Will. Love to meet up next time you're in the PNW.
Nathan, your presentation and explanation of Porsches is impeccable. I bought a 2014 981 Cayman in 2018. The color of the car, Amaranth Red Metallic sold me. I have managed to stay away from the dealership and establish a great relationship with an Indy around the corner. They are so close that I can hear dyno tests while washing my Porsche in my driveway. I have followed the owner’s manual service recommendation from the day I bought. No problems at all. I have added performance headers and have a Carnewal GT Exhaust on order🏎
If someone is looking for an excellent value in a 991 you guys picked it with this car. The key for the next owner is to first find a good independent Porsche mechanic even if they decide to DYI basic maintenance. Join PCA and get references from fellow members. Some people have a dream to one day own a Porsche, but they aren’t mechanically inclined, so they error to the overly cautious side and follow every recommendation the service writer makes. Then they get a little burned by the experience because they ended up over paying for simply service.
We’ll done Will and another humble thank you to Nathan. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I have not taken any of my vehicles to a dealer for anything in nearly 20 years. You can do things yourself or you can find another way. The higher end the brand the more they rely on service to make money.
Do you own a Porsche? I’m thinking about buying a cayman but I’m nervous cause I’m not trying to spend so much on maintenance…
Your honesty is appreciated.
Such a beautiful colour on this 991!
Thanks for the video.
What an absolute gem this man is! Wonderful advice.
I just got a 2009 Porsche Boxster Base 987.2 with 7 speed Automatic PDK and there's under 50k miles. I've never owned one of these cars before. Doing the oil change and replacing spark plugs was very simple and very necessary. I'm glad I have experience working on cars. I've been taking great care of it so far, and driving it never gets old. It's a car I've been wanting since I was a kid.
Bought a 991.1 with a CPO warranty and had one headlight replaced due to delam and cracking on the headlight. For the 40K service I took it to a very well respected third party service center who on looking the car noticed that the rear spoiler bracket had broken on both sides. I did take the car in prior to the CPO ending its term and made a complaint mentioning that the spoiler wasn’t working ? The spoiler did lift but not all the way. The service tech at Porsche then noticed that the CPO warranty checklist was not identified in the system which was even more concerning. I don’t think that all dealership are completely honest 😡. Good job I love this car, but will never return to buy another car from Porche North Scottsddale !!
When the video began I wasn't digging the paint color on this car but as the video went on I changed my mind. That is a gorgeous car.
You know, that was my experience in person. At first I was like “man, that’s not a great color” but by the end of the day I was thinking I would enjoy owning a car that color.
Personally I have my handyman perform all service on my 991.1. RUclips is great to learn tool. Knowing someone who can wrench is golden. These cars are not that complex for regular service items...
I'm thinking of buying a used 911 for my retirement gift to myself. I really want a 991.1 S or 4S coupe. When the time comes I'm going try and buy one from him. Every tome I see a video with Nate in it he just seems like a great guy. And has great knowledge of these cars.
One of the best videos I’ve seen on 912 to date thank you very much for the information from a new owner of a 991.2.
2007 Carrera S needed a brakejob -new rotors and pads. An independent German car shop waqnted 2600 (appprox) The Porsche dealer wanted 3700. I watched many how - to videos on u tube. Figured how to do it myself. Total cost was 790.00
I watched your video from the thumbnail only - I love Amaranth Red, I have a 981 Cayman S in the same 😆. Beautiful spec 911.
I'm so glad I came across this video. I always feel intimidated when I'm at the service department since I'm a first time Porsche owner. Last year in October a rep. told me I need to change my brake pads (as it has 2 inches left) but I said no and said to postpone it to this month of May simply because I was leaving for vacation in a few days then and my insurance will end a week after I leave. The car will be in winter storage then. The guy's unhappy demeanor was obvious. I can't help suspecting he may get a cut from that big job and now he lost it. I will be particular about this from now. I drive only 2,000 km per year.
Stay vigilant
Thank you. This was a great information and video. I’m just starting to look to buy my first Porsche.
Amaranth Red Metallic -- wow, what a beautiful color! I've not seen that color before -- thanks for showcasing it here.
Great video. Post warranty and with 140k on the odometer on my 2010 Boxster I’ve done routine services and a couple of mods with an excellent and good value local independent repair shop. Many services & mods I’ve been able to do myself with no risk to the car or my ego. Result, a very affordable and rewarding experience.
I've never spent a single day in the Porsche space but love this type of content. Very educational/informative for your average gear head. I'd have never thought the recommended replacement interval for the spark plugs was 40000 miles?!
Better performance
On 991.2 (17-19) because of turbos it’s 30k mile/4 year, and it’s a little more of a pain to do the spark plugs because of the turbos too. Most cars, due to not being driven enough, end up needing the spark plugs done because of the time interval and not the mileage. Because of that the more miserly owners are reluctant to do the service because of cost, “it only has 15k miles, I’ll just defer for now..” then sell the car, having never done the 4 year service, so now a new owner has a 5-6 year old car that didn’t have the plugs pulled. Fingers crossed the plugs aren’t going to rip the threads out because of galvanic corrosion, the reason Porsche specifies a 4year time interval. So, people shopping these, remember, buy the seller first and the car second. If the seller deferred maintenance, consider that for what headaches that can give you.
Different people buy cars for different reasons. I personally like to do all the service on 981 myself, I believe you get to really know and understand your car inside out e.g. I used to take my car to the dealer for service in the beginning (as a novice first time Porsche buyer, I was often scared to touch anything) then when I first grew a pair to service the car myself, I found service advisers didn't put screws back correctly, so I started correcting a lot of the things by looking at workshop manual, youtube videos and reading threads. So in ways my car made me a more capable human, I learnt and now I have a new skill. BTW this goes for any sort of thing you own.
Cheers to all
Beautiful color, nice to see something other than white, black, gray, silver.
My 991.1 is in the shop now for an oil change, new rear tires, new rear wheel bearings, and an alignment. Pretty expensive, but all things that must be done. I totally agree with not over servicing the car. Porsche gave me another $3k of recommended maintenance that was BS in my opinion. They want over $200 to change windshield wiper blades (of course I declined). Getting taken advantage of never feels good.
This is very informative and useful information! Very vital topic!
While contemplating purchasing my first P car, Nathan is surely a breath of fresh air amongst a sea you RUclipsrs hyping themselves and agendas.
Thanks for the video guys! Amazing color, very tempting!
This is a great video, Will! Great work and amazing content for Porsche owners.
Great video. Thank you. 993 owner.
Wonderful speaker. Seems very credible.
Excellent video! Although I have long ago(1989) left my 911 wife for my Ferrari mistress(s) it's interesting to note that what is discussed here applies to all other makes, not just dream sport cars.
Will, love you channel, been watching all your videos, great job on quality of content, and please have Nathan on more, he's fantastic, seen many of his videos on the PCA channel, as he has such a high level of experience and competence with Porsche its always a great learning experience. I have a question for Nathan: I have a 2009 C2S with 27k miles with a PDK, (first year). I have heard Nathan say that maintenance on the PDK is so important as they are uber expensive to replace. When should an owner of a well maintained 997.2 car do a PDK service, and should I have both fluids changed with the cover (no track time and the car is not a daily driver)? I have done every service this car in the video has had, in my home shop on my lift (I have a lot of tools). Also, I'd like to have a record of the repair with dealer receipts for this type of PDK service. What is a good mileage to have the PDK service done on a car that is 13 years old with low mileage such as mine? I don't mind paying for this service to have it done properly, just don't want to do it too soon and waste my money kind of what the whole point of this video is. Thanks for any advice
Thanks for this.
I’m about to go get a 991.1, I’m a huge DIY’er owning 3 BMW’s base and M’s, but nervous about getting raked for items that I have the skill sets for.
I have a 991.1 which has only been to the dealer once. They can keep there $500-600 oil changes. Some indy's are expensive also rent is expensive. I diy myself. Plugs are easy on a 991.1 not so much on a 991.2 with the turbos. If you are a huge DIY'err it shouldn't be an issue. Biggest expense is tires 2-3k. That 11k of service could have been diy for a few hundred. rennlist forum will give you all the info you need.
@@rayz8000
Thanks for that, yes, extreme DIY. dropping subframes, oil pan gaskets, full cooling system overhaul’s etc…. Looking forward to the 991.1 driving more and less worrying:)
As always, interesting and informative. Thanks for video.
Nice work. Even though I’m good friends with my service advisor I know what his ROLE is there.
I have a 991.1 S cab in red too. Ruby red metallic with sport exhause, chrono, pdcc etc.
I have a lift and change my own oil, changed the coolant, the brake pads and fluid. Do the brake pads before you hit the brake wear sensors, so you don’t have to replace them. A friend has had a number of 911s, his point to me was, get over it, it’s just a car. I had an air bag light come on, I borrowed a OBD2 scanner and cleared the code, the dealer cost would have been easily $500-$700.
Great information. Thanks for sharing!
Thes videos are great keep them coming please
I do offer different types of content so prepare yourself for some variety 😄
@@RennthusiastI’ll be watching! Definitely enjoyed this series with Nathan
991.1 great car
I owned a C4 7 speed
Sorry I traded it
Always had it serviced by my local specialty shop
The same people that serviced my 356 and 964
Was about 3/4 of the price for service
What did you trade for? 997.2?
@@Arc1517 I got a E63s Merc
Hated that then bought a 2022
992 cab. Still have that for now
Love your video! Great advice!
This was awesome. One question I have though is whether there’s any downside to doing my own maintenance. I’m capable of it and I can save a lot of money doing my own maintenance but doing so doesn’t get recorded on the CarFax. Is there any way around that, other than just keeping my own log book that I could show a future owner when I go to sell it?
Very informative! Quick question, for modern Porsches do you recommend oil changes at 5K mile intervals vs the 10K miles recommended by Porsche? I would feel uncomfortable having an oil change interval as long as 10K miles.
The Porsche uses full synthetic oil, so yes it can go 10k miles.
Factory recommended oil change was 20k miles on my 05 Porsche. Then Porsche changed the interval to 12k miles
10k is too high, specially for city driving.
Lots of acid will build up in the oil.
Once per year is too long.
I would do every 6 months, or every 7000k max, which ever comes first.
Like it was stated above, synthetic oil can last over 20 k miles so 10 k miles is quite conservative
@@olasek7972 Lasts for 20K miles? What type of driving? What weather condition? all hwy miles or city driving? if it lasts for 20k miles, then why don't you keep the same oil for 20K miles in your engine? ha? What are you talking about?
i still have my first porsche, a boxster. when i bought it 15 years ago my first "service" at 2000 km cost me $600! the dealer has never seen my car since then. find yourself an independent mechanic and follow the manual. if you err, err on the side of more frequent oil changes -- at least each year.
There is no part of the regular service of a Porsche that even an average owner cannot do themselves. Even the typical additional items - belts, coils, water pumps / thermostats and pulleys, control arms, AOS - are well within the reach of just about any owner with some patience and an interest in learning about their car. Of course there's nothing wrong with paying either a dealer or an indie to do the work for you, but then you're missing out on 80% of the fun of owning and driving the car in the first place.
I mean, I totally completely respect where you’re coming from but maybe some people just don’t enjoy that type of activity.
So, while the work is 80% of the enjoyment for you, that might not be the case for others.
Thanks for watching!
Great video with solid advice. The only problem with servicing your car through an independent comes down the road when you go to trade or sell it. Potential owners will always pick and pay more for a car serviced by an authorized Porsche centre. I hate paying €1000 for an oil and brake fluid change but I know I will get some of that back in the future.
From a European / UK perspective, it’s sound advice but doesn’t address - if I was listening intently enough - why Porsche AG ‘recommends’ what & when to service. I bought a 991.2 new from an OPC, in fact their UK HQ. It’s nearly 7 years old and has an extended warranty which I will maintain until you can no longer renew: ie 15 years maximum. All servicing is carried out by the same supplying OPC in order to maintain not just the car but the contractural requirements of the warranty. Stuff that is clearly defined by the warranty contract itself that falls outside of ‘mandatory’ - like tyres, pads, refrigerant, exhaust fasteners etc - I get an independent to provide, a shop set up and staffed by ex-Porsche trained technicians who wanted freedom from Porsche AG’s Mothership. Doing it this way is, of course, not for everyone but you get peace of mind, it’s actually reasonably priced and you avoid the feeling of being milked by the dealer. Yes, the service advisors (and God knows they come & go) don’t like you playing the system but so long as you fulfill your warranty T&Cs you get all you need without paying for extra ‘fat’.
Nicely done !
Excellent video.
The 991... the most beautiful 911 (with the 964)
I should have jumped on this deal (red 911) right away. Darn!
I own a 1996 speed yellow 993 coupe, & very much appreciate this content. I have a friend who wants to go on Rally's but he's not a person who should be trying to fit a Porsche into his budget, so may I ask, what is the least expensive 911 (not Boxter or Cayman) going forward from 1999, would that be a base model 996?
I have heard that manufacturer recommended services on modern cars are often less than ideal for the life of the car because they are meeting or exceeding EPA goals/requirements by stating the car needs less fluid exchanges than would be ideal. Not sure if this is true, but seems like it makes sense. Personally, I would not exceed 5K miles on an oil change, no matter the age or condition of the car. Even if it's less than ideal for the environment.
Would you recommend a ppi if it’s being sold by the Porsche dealer where it had all the maintenance performed?
Great content. Tough to find a good Indy shop. Recently went to a highly recommended shop, and they refused to do work on car, because some other work had already been done by a different shop, and they felt it would impact overall quality. It was a very strange interaction, literally tried to give them $10k to make it right.
It’s a 996, and they continue to say the cost of work, versus car value just isn’t there. I think they simply just want AC work, and not interested in 996 era.
This is the fundamental problem with Indy’s, especially the air cooled shops: They can afford to do things like what you’re talking about. Demand is so high and frankly I think some of them start believing their own PR because of it that some customers are just turned away…or wait months for jobs that should take less than 1 weeks.
@@Rennthusiastthat’s the conclusion I came around to. They originally said “bring it in it’s our slow time of year”, perhaps that was the red flag. Once it was there it sat, it took two weeks for them to call and tell me deviation numbers, which I already knew. Ended up getting oil changed, and now looking for new shop for some preventive maintenance. Frustrating, and I told them as much. I’ve never had a car that I’m willing to spend thousands of dollars on, and been denied service.
Great video. My only suggestion is let the gentleman finish a thought before you pose the next question.
Appreciate the suggestion.
i have a 991.2 and have had the car for 3 years now. I've been to the dealer only once for an oil change. they cost between 3-4x of going to an independent porsche mechanic. the place i take it to works exclusively on porsches and doesn't try to upsell me on things. the dealer at the time of my visit recommended i change all the tires. when i went to the indy porsche shop A YEAR LATER he truly looked puzzled. the current tires are about 2300 miles old have only been used on a freeway and are nowhere needing to be replaced.
Keep an eye on that water pump. It will fail…but luckily Porsche put a 10 year warranty on it bc it is so widespread and obviously a manufacturing error.
$63k is very reasonable for this car. I make $110k per year, live pretty cheap. And I’m still mentally unsure if I can Eve. Afford a 996,997, 991.1. LOL. Porsche is definitely out of reach even for me. I’m looking at some 996 C4S and 997.1 CS. It’s even harder finding ones with good history. 😢.
Finance and refinance.
You only live once….at least that’s how I live.
When it’s all said and done and I reflect back on my life I don’t want to regret not chasing my dreams and experiencing something I really, really enjoyed.
Nobody was ever on their death bed glad that they forsook a Porsche sports car and instead got a Camry. #GetThePorsche
Hey buddy, I make the same as you. I just bought my 991.1 three months ago. It’s expensive and is a stretch but so worth it. Pure happiness.
@@anom7422 love it!
Solid video.
Only thing that wears oil is mileage...not time. I you drive you car 5000 miles a year...you do not need to change the oil every year.
Never believe the service adviser as I was told my brakes needed replacing. Took the car to a trusted independent garage and was told "yes discs have a slight lip but brakes are fine for 1000 miles plus. I would get a Porsche service every 2 years if you do low mileage and oil change yourself or local garage.
very rare to find a 1 owner car with documented maintenance.
So OP why in your opinion do cabs loose more value than a coupe?
Undeniably. They're always the cheapest in each trim class.
It’s funny how easy Porsche makes it to work on your own vehicle. Unless I need a lift, I’m doing it at home.
I love rich guys who the only car stuff they know is what service they get done on their 10 Porsche
I don’t even have one YET and know all this I also know after I spend 90-120k
I’m not letting some pissed off kid at the dealer touch my investment
It’s still a car if you can turn a wrench you can do most of the service
And as far as air cooled
The fun of owning it is pulling everything out rebuilding it better and faster
Sure some of it you outsource but the fun of ownership is disassembling that flat 6 case cams and all
Geez, if part of that $11k of 24 mos of maintenance items was tires from the dealer, that's probably $3k right there. No need to get N rated tires if you are just driving back and forth to the office.
Don't EVER go to a dealer for out-of-warranty work of any kind unless it's absolutely necessary.
I have a 2014 in Amaranth Red, with PDK. Looks almost the same (it has S type wheels from that year). It looks brand new inside and out. After the PPI I bought it a year ago from a PCA member for 60K. It had 39,000 miles. Owner asked 62k but since he advised it was going to need a brake job we settled on 60k. It has a good service record history. After I bought the car I took it to another independent mechanic recommended by the local PCA members and got another "PPI" just to confirm the status; all was ok in great condition but a new brake job within a year was recommended. The only Porsche reliable independent mechanic has a shop an hour and a half away. I decided to establish a maintenance base line and maintain a good service file so I took it to the local Porsche dealer for a 4-wheel brake job plus a 40,000 mile service. Cost me about $4500 (Ouch) but I am very happy with the service I received. The car is like brand new and it runs great. Daily driver. Next service is an oil change.
Question: how often, if ever, should I add a PEA brew (like Chevron Techron and the like) to the gas? Every oil change? More often?
I would go to the 991 Facebook group and ask them. Or check the Rennlist 991 forum.
Nathan
What is your website? Do you include any warranty?
Thank you
Through google, I figured out he is Nathan Mers of Columbia Valley Luxury Cars in Washington State. He’s super impressive. Wish my a Porsche salesman was that guy!
CUSTOMER:
I know I changed filters last week, but I wanna do it again.
DEALER: Sure
Over servicing or been over sold on service is a common tactic at any dealership.
Service Advisors are Salespeople.
Over sold service happens more with women. Service Advisors sold fear.
3 dollars a mile for service is nutz
As a former 911 owner (and current C8 owner), I’m no longer interested in any vehicle where the dealer/manufacturer charges PUNITIVE service/parts rates.
I hear you…but at the same time Chev isn’t known for quality. I’ve owned a few and know about this personally. For example, a last gen suburban needing an engine rebuild at 80,000 miles.
Basically you’ll pay as much for service on that C8 as you would in a 911. It’ll just show up in the form of more trips with smaller dollar amounts more quickly.
@@Rennthusiast That’s not even remotely true at all. Porsche parts AND service is multiples higher than Chevy. And the quality on my C8 is amazing. Almost 2 years with zero problems or expense. Fit and finish is great. Sure, the paint on the 911 is better, but a P car is tens of thousands of dollars more, and the base Stingray will runs circles around a base 911 all day long.
@biffbifford402 I’m sorry, but it’s a Chevrolet product. I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@Rennthusiast Lol. Until you take the time to in-snoot your nose and ACTUALLY drive the C8, you won’t get it.
The C8 will SMOKE the 911 and do it for a lot less money.
You should definitely spend some seat time in a C8 so you know what you’re talking about.
@biffbifford402 I’m not going to debate with you about this. Your fixation on “smoking” a 911 is of no interest to me because I’m not here to race. Classic CAM guy hahaha. Congratulations, though….you can mash the pedal all the way to the floor. Now skedaddle. Just because I don’t think your car is better doesn’t mean you need to start an argument.
Selling new brakes is best ....
Gorgeous! I might be interested if it had 3 pedals.🙁
My Porsche had 7000 miles on it the dealership screed me out of my first oil change and charged me $250 then at 7,000 miles they try to hit me with $3500 maintenance service feeling like I’m getting scammed
Yea but I've tracked every Porsche I've owned and i can't imagine not taking your Porsche to the track so that changes your service intensity and intervals. I assume you're talking about a Porsche that isn't tracked. To each their own but I can't imagine not tracking a Porsche.
To be fair though, 11k is still more maintenance than I have done on my Boxster Spyder in the last two years and I also track it, so I do agree that 11k is way too much on maintenance though it is probably a good selling point. I generally just have to replace brakes, rotars, and tires, though my Pagint ESL pads last forever as they are enduro pads so honestly even tracking my Spyder isn't that much extra on maintenance. I likely do a few extra fluid changes but luckily my local dealer's service department loves me and charges me about 50% less than the typical customer that comes in. However, my relationship with my local service department has been cultivated over 10 years and they built two race cars for me, so it is true that other dealers I don't get that kind of loyalty discount. Love the channel btw. I think you know a good friend of mine, Joe Rothman.
That’s a good price
You guys forgot about the brake fluid, which has to be changed every two years
That 4,000 miles for me would have been one oil change, that’s it, and I would have done it myself. It’s actually easier on my 992 than it was on my VW. An alignment would be totally unnecessary unless there’s a reason to think it’s necessary. Air filters don’t go bad just because of time. Same with spark plugs. This person wasted a lot of money.
The guy that sold that Porsche probably hated it because it was a money pit and will never buy another Porsche nor will he recommend one. The dealership is just damaging the name.
Porsche dealers are absolute crooks. Recently I had a VERY minimal part that needed to be replaced under warranty, and it took 3 visits to do it. They are cheating the customer and cheating the Porsche warranty service.
For crying out loud....be still when you are holding that camera.
Spark plugs at 30k miles 😢
Seriously?
Why should replacing spark plugs for example, be time related ? Total bs.
PORSCHE RIPS YOU OFF WHEN YOU BUY THE CAR AND WHILE YOU OWN THE CAR.
63K is a fair price
Watched it twice…where’s the advice on saving money on service (besides not doing it early)? I think he got cut off at 7:47, just when he was going to give us his main point…
Unbelievably it’s simply to reference the owner’s manual and follow the maintenance schedule recommended by Porsche. Dealer service folks will tend to oversell you.
free coffee? are you shitting me ?
😂
So many dentists are upset right now
ZZZZZZZZZ. Told me nothing. Thanks for wasting my time.
I bring my 993 to a Porsche Independent shop ,The dealers are thiefs.
You could avoid the repair costs by not wasting your money on these clunkers.
So many cowboy mechanics out there! I have been stung by alleged Porsche Specialists in the past!
Make sure the people you go to have a good reputation. Otherwise they will just take you for whatever they can. Avoid dwporsche uk!