Michael vs Bananas - The Only Reason We Play Melee
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
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Table of Contents
0:00 Introduction
1:01 The Rules, Written and Unwritten
4:35 Mew2King vs Westballz
7:14 Westballz vs Armada
11:00 Wobbling
15:47 Fauxhebro vs Chango
19:30 Michael vs Bananas
26:32 The Only Reason We Play Melee
29:24 Credits
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Music Credits (In order of appearance)
Dark World (Mikel Lofi Remix) - GameChops Zelda & Chill
Passage - L'indécis
Sideways - L'indécis feat. Sad Toï
Wake Up - xander.
Arrived in Paradise - Julian Calor
Staying There - L'indécis
Oceania - chromonicci
Jurassic Park SNES - Elevator
Changes - L'indécis
Giygas Intimidation - Earthbound
Dies Irae, Libera Me - Giuseppe Verdi Requiem 1
Tuba Mirium - Giuseppe Verdi Requiem 1
Campfire - No Spirit, Kyle McEvoy, Dillan Witherow
Metro Lines - Sleepy Fish 
Игры
"oh you're approaching me?"
"no"
-Joseph, probably
Wonder of U
I actually laughed out loud, thank you 🙏🏼 😂
oh fuck I got over 300 thumbs up
@@GameMasterWLC yes, dedoodoododedadada
The thought of Westballz just explaining to his clueless waiter why the ledge mechanics suck is so funny to me
LMAO
That was the funniest part for me XDDDDDDDDDDDDD
That realization when you just finish a half an hour video essay discussing the history of noninteractivity only to find it's _still_ a decent bit shorter than some of the exact tourney sets it goes over.
N I c e
The reason why i will love this game forevermore
Oh god, it is half an hour. I need help
Oh shit
I went to an ultimate tournament and they disqualified a guy because he was stalling and taking 20 minutes for three games and the employees were sick of it because he was holding up bracket.
game w no patches makes its community philosophers, somehow
Cool Onion headline
Not wrong
Patches are for sooks
Confucius said: "winning is for lames"
WARRM lol yea except the onion is usually jokes or exaggerations
"Winning in Melee is typically more about validating your worldview than it is about capturing the glory of victory or whatever." Wow that's gonna stick with me
Truth
It is true winning in melee is just validated ones self worth/ world view
That's a bit pretentious me thinks
It's just winning in a game/competition
“It’s not about winning, it’s about sending a message”
@@superheriber27 that is a world view tho
Zain placing hbox's controller on the chair after he drops it. What a guy.
hes just such a genuinely good dude i love it
More of a gentleman than Hol Horse from JoJo’s. I mean Hol literally dropkicks some girl because a scorpion is on her shoulder.
@@mariobutwithdrip8944 based hol horse
respect the gamecube controller
He knows how expensive those can be.
"The game couldn't possibly capture a person's personality if boring people did not have an avenue to be their boring selves. It wouldn't be self-expression if everyone was forced to act cooler than they really were"
One of the most brutal (and probably unintentional) burns I've ever heard.
Yo you know he meant it as a direct, hard burn
Leffen in the Summit swag bracket is him being forced to act cooler than he really is, and he was mad
@@jimmyliu3529 🤓 Thanks for your comment, Jimmy Liu!
When he said that i couldnt stop myself from doing a mango-esqe laugh for like 3 minutes. The fact that 30 minutes of completely neutral analytics all lead to this one incredible burn makes this some of the best time I have ever spent on youtube.
That's why I get really annoyed when people say to blame the character not the player. A human picked the character and picked the playstyle.
"Melee itself is not sick, the people are sick" is a pretty cool quote ngl
But then that would mean that lame players are lame people.
@@tenslein8977 so??
Your playstyle is a reflection of your goals within the game, not your person. But yeah, melee has the same lameass lows of every other smash game, even if its hypest highs are the highest
@@leaffinite3828 True. But I'd say that the quote doesnt mean that lame players are lame people (i just made a bad joke lol). It's just that even lame players are sick people because they're part of our community, and play our game which is sick
It's like the "crab mentality" quote drom that other doc about hungrybox. Sick
*they can both be disqualified*
My brain left the house i was absolutely losing it dude holy shit
Like what a fucking POWER MOVE. Absolute galaxy omega brain play
Megameta for sure hahaha
@@thecountercounter9127 i like u
B R U H
@@caerulemusic and they say romance is dead
"It's fine if you play that way, but if you ever complain about wobbling again you are a giant hypocrite" Damn sick quote
But can mew2king say that he's playing that way BECAUSE of wobbling?
@@Mufflin Except we know that's not true? The Westballz set from literally the same video is a prime example of M2K ledge camping just because it's good?
@@Clashyah00 SO why are we comparing Wobble to ledge camping.
@@jacoblong6864 both abuse game mechanics in an uninteractive way to gain an advantage on your opponent
both are widely considered "lame" by the community
both embody a "play-to-win" mentality, caring less about you and your opponent having fun and more about winning the game.
There are differences, sure, but Wobbles makes a solid point imo. If you're going to do whatever takes to win, to the point where I'm not even able to play the game, you can't complain about the one tool I have that can give me a slight edge in this interaction.
@@Clashyah00 Im not disagreeing with Wobbles, im just saying why we're comparing them.
"I'm not gonna win. I'm just gonna make sure you don't"
Crabby bucket people
Now that's some king shit right there
My guy Bananas sank the ship he was on to kill the Captain
the s2j zoom lmao
The Johnny cam
Solid gold
I like the part where you said "Wobbles grabbed M2K by the shoulder at the end of the game"
And you put the Z button over top of it, best joke I've seen in a while
"Wobbles grabbed M2K by the should at the end of the game... and headbutts him repeatedly for three hours before throwing him into orbit."
it just needed the melee grab sfx
Something that makes boyd vs Michael even funnier is that the set they show in the video was part of why wobbling got banned in Chicago
That's so stupid lol 😂 it got banned because it was used to punish a player who refused to engage?
As someone who was part of the decision making process it really was just yo make our venues friendly places to practice for those who sought to play at majors as they were pushing back into the direction of a wobbling ban. It was good timing but if I recall correctly it happened before TBH9, the one that had wobbling banned if the number isnt right.
Matthew Koester hey matt it’s mike!
Jacob UGS Havard That sounds fine, but at the same time why would a video of a set have to be presented in support of the ban? It has nothing to do with trying to adapt to major rule sets.
@@WaveOfPig it wasn't presented as evidence. It looks like Coffee thought it was but at no point was it posted in the TO's discussion chat. Coffee isn't in there so I don't fault him for thinking they are related.
ending gave me chills. Sick vid dude
My favourite melee player, kosmicd12
But fr doe it cool that you enjoy things outside of what you do for a living
Woah its kosmicZ
yo what up
I timed out Nintendude at G5 and that wasn't even the best part of my weekend
Lmao nice
Is there a vid of your game?
@@professionalfangster1510 definitely not lol
@@professionalfangster1510 there is some really terrible phone recorded footage that misses about 30% of the game on a friends phone somewhere lmao
I hate Melee players and I love them at the same time
I was recently on a LoL stream where the streamer, who knows a bit about Melee, didn't understand why people wouldn't just play lame and win. I think the "there's not really a point in winning in Melee if you don't do it by your own principles" idea that is the conclusion of this video is pretty much the answer I was looking for. Great job.
Of course a LoL streamer wouldn't understand why people don't just play cheap/lame all the time
@@adriannaranjo4397 LMFAO
@@adriannaranjo4397 I mean, wobbling to 300 every time or timing out is a lot higher in the "amount of lameness" compared to the lamest strat in league which is, idk, juggermaw? which still gives plenty of space for the opponent to try to win.
@@werewer54 In the history of lol there was so much lame shit you could do that even me can't continue to play that game, when i was seeing Aatrox + Yumi or Master yi + Taric and another sup farming for him every fucking game i just stop playing because i can't do shit if they have 3 brains cells, also "Try to win" is the word here.
so most of top level melee would probably be incredibly boring if it was as big as LoL
Giygas' theme during the explanation of double disqualification hit REALLY hard. That's amazing build up to explain how they could end up so bad, they'd both get yeeted out of the tournament.
P. S. THE AFTERMATH TOO
I think its a reference to jon bois' video about nfl final scores
As a 2001 rpg rat of a gamer, Earthbound might be the greatest rpg I’ve ever played in my life. Giygas final form is both amazing and insane like nothing else. I’ve beaten it twice and thinking about playing it again now on my 3DS.
Ice Climbers: "It's not fair! THIS MATCH IS UNWINNABLE!!!"
Bowser: "First time?"
You have no idea how my jaw almost dropped when I saw “DQ” next to both Michael and Bananas’ tags
*sits up in chair*
Now, you have my attention.
The Giygas music really adds to the moment
I never thought I'd love a match where literally nothing happens, but the level of mindgames and the sheer confluence of circumstances required for such a feat is genuinely incredible to me
I love how SSBM has such rich and entertaining documentaries
That gradual zoom in on S2J's face had me dying laughing
This is the culmination of humanity's journey. From the dark days of sheltering from predators in caves, inventing the wheel, discovering fire, building structures, agriculture, art, music, technology, the enlightenment, the plague, endless and countless wars, it's all come to this.
An in depth, thirty minute analysis on a specifically non-interactive match-up between two characters in an incredibly specific and obscure ruleset of a near 20 year old children's party game.
Amen
Or.. what happens when you play a dead game competitively
I wouldn't say the ruleset is obscure, moreso niche.
The title "The Only Reason We Play Melee" convinced me that this would be a video about the origin of "proper" Melee. The first combo, or the first tournament, or the first wavedash in detail. I'm glad I was wrong. What an amazing video. You've made me reevaluate why I enjoy watching competitive Melee. It's a good point that allowing self expression also means being allowed to be "boring." I think there are issues in the game that can be fixed with rule changes and soft-bans. Through all of those, I hope the community never loses sight of why this game is so much fun.
I think there are issues that cannot be fixed at all. What if a Fox or Falco player tags Peach with a lazer and camps top platform for the rest of the match? What if there's a major conflict within the community to ban Puff? What if fun in Melee is subjective, and trying to force a unified version of the game upon everyone would only lead to division and killing what gives the game its identity?
I don't know whether to hope that this doesn't happen and the community survives as it is, with the friendships and belonging that it entails, or this does happen and the community is forced to face its negative attributes.
Another melee stats masterpiece in the books.
Can't believe you guys didn't use my analysis of Chango vs. Fauxhebro in this video smh
Honestly though, really great stuff yet again. You guys are killing it!
Waiting for your new vid I hope its juicy(I mean all of them are. )
I was waiting for s2j’s “midset coaching”
You’re also killing it, Walt! Love your content
@@tyyao2000 issajoke
"gradually people started to radicalize to one side or the other, a state of affairs obviously completely different from any American current events. The insidious thing about this emerging 2 party system is that the figureheads of each party were, of course, acting almost entirely out of self-interest."
If for no other reason you must respect michael simply because he is very tall
Bananas is also quite tall; their rivalry is one of two titans, a kaiju film of super smash brothers melee for the nintendo gamecube
I’m taller
Michael is the jolly giant
@@matthewkoester1640 bananas is definitely a sweet heart, 100% vouch for that mans
“heehee pink balloon go boing”
That Wobbles quote hit so hard geez
Omlett Struck me as a false equivalency.
“Dear liberals, you hate wobbling, yet refuse to let me grab you. Hypocritical, no?”
@@colinmurphy2214 virgin
@@colinmurphy2214 No it makes sense both are staling and if you ban one form of stalling entirely all stalling should be banned. In addition it's the players fault this isn't a competitive game, it's a party one. Nintendo didn't expect people to wobble hence why in other games it's lessened somewhat or requires more inputs.
@@illford6921 see the thing is, stalling the game was banned. It’s why wobbling players didn’t just win whenever they grabbed because they weren’t allowed. Stalling is banned, but poorly enforced. Wobbling was just flat out allowed and took forever to get banned
s2j’s reaction to anything is my parents reaction to my existence
Zain picking up Hboxes controller after losing and not wanting anything to break is so wholesome as heck
“Melee is probably less fun than we all think it is”
what a brilliant video
Love that you guys can turn something that most people in the community would consider boring or even shameful into a story that is both exciting and empowering. Another excellent video!
Also, LET’S GO MICHAELLLLLL
LETS GO JIGGLYPUFF
10:50 The great Alpharad once said:
"It's not about winning. It's about sending a message."
M2K's grime is part of his charm, but boy is he grimy.
Well said Clyde. I don't think he believes what he does is grimy tho and sometimes neither do I, especially when the opponent makes it clear they're not willing to adapt to his strategy. But I guess you could say that makes him a hypocrite for wanting wobbling banned.
And the Shroomed thing is dumb af imo. You can state you'll start chain grabbing mid set and that's not grime - real grime is agreeing to not chain grab but doing it anyway/changing your mind mid game.
Chucking a tanty over your opponent making a verbal agreement to not chain grab that ends up benefitting you more than them, then your opponent informs you they're going to play by proper rules for the rest of the set because they're allowed to? Getting pissy over something like that is more grimy imo, but I know a lot of people disagree.
Yeah as charming as playing top tier characters and not actually playing for good/fun, specifically Smash was never meant to be played at a competitive level, just for fun, watching people abuse mechanics as a "fight" is as fun as watching a boxing match where both boxers hug or just stand in their corners.
Relying on smash for your livelihood...that is the essence of grime
as grimey as he is bald
@@jungshin87 bashing someone from getting enjoyment from a game wither shows you don't understand it or just lack fuffilment
25:42 I love how the go-to once-in-a-lifetime sports moment is Bartolo Colón’s home run off James Shields. Big Sexy even sounds like a Melee player’s name.
22:09 i love how this moment is actually jarring to watch and hear. love the ominous music choice and tone here. amazing video overall, great work ❤️
Fauxhebro vs Chango was one of the first melee sets I remember watching live that wasn't some supermajor top 8. I remember thinking to myself is this what happens in bracket when no one's looking? Is this set an oddity or is this an important, rule defining moment? To this day I've still been unable to form an opinion on who was in the right, and I now realize the reason for this is because melee is fundamentally flawed. Melee in a pure competition sense is probably less fun and less perfect than we'd like to think. Chango knew that his best shot of winning was waiting for faux to approach, and faux knew that approaching would almost certainly increase his deficit. Is either player in the wrong? No, the situation is a consequence of Melee being flawed. And that's fine. Because as long as players continue to play flawed, the cracks in Melee can remain anecdotal as opposed to grow into deeper, systemic issues (I'm sure with a multi-million dollar prize pool on the line, planking your way to victories would be a lot more appealing).
It's only flawed on floaty matchups, take away puff ICs and Peach and who's left to camp?
They said the same about floyd, khabib, usman
When you fight the answer is not to fight
But if you cant then perfect pressure and absolute defense
@@MagikMKW the video literally shows M2K several times camping spacies with non floaty characters lol
i mean that is a cool way to look at it, but in theory one of the players should have approached but they chose not to, it's really as simple as that. people rage quit or make poor decisions all the time, this was just a weird way of doing it.
I just feel the need to point this out because melee is remarkably UN-flawed. The balance of offense and defense is close-to perfect, and planking & wobbling are the only edge cases - NEITHER SHOWN TO BE DOMINANT. If you want to see what a game looks like that ACTUALLY incentives never approaching, look up some meta knight vs. ice climbers games from the Brawl days.
@@lounowell4171 "one of the players should have approached but they chose not to, it's really as simple as that"
do tell how could ICs approach Jiggly safely. Also," The balance of offense and defense is close-to perfect, and planking & wobbling are the only edge cases - NEITHER SHOWN TO BE DOMINANT." Is that why there's the LGL and rules against stalling? There shouldn't be cases of non interactivity if offense and defense are "close-to-perfect."
Every game has something trash about it.
This video is so beautiful. Strong script, editing, and just a great idea to wax philosophical over some of these sets.
This is the best Melee doc of all time
This is hilarious to watch as someone who watched both Chango vs. Fauxhebro and Michael vs. Bananas in person.
Fun video! I enjoyed it a lot.
This is honestly my favourite video on youtube. I’m watching it for the fifth time right now. So beautifully made, so insightful
I dont really watch or follow comp melee but it's because of video essays like this that I find the esport so interesting. Great work man, absolutely astounding vid
Truly the Jon Bois of Melee, sick video as always dude
As a chess player, I thoroughly enjoyed the chess reference at 8:12
After coming back to this video 2 years after I saw it the first time, I've got to say your intro sequence was incredibly well-written.
Fascinating watch, really good narrative, great editing, all spot on.
I've always been a smash bros Fan, and have always wanted to compete. Watching your videos is giving me a feeling I have never felt before. Knowing there is so much more to playing a game, than just playing a game.
Bananas genuinely seems like a hilarious dude from that tweet alone I’m not being sarcastic he sounds like he’s having the time of his life
This is wonderful stuff. I'm really happy with the direction that y'all have decided to take on this channel. Keep up the good work :)
This is honestly one of the most beautiful videos I have ever watched. The writing of your conclusion brought a tear to my eye, it perfectly captures what Melee really is about.
Thank you.
I'm so glad that people are interested in the more "uncool" parts of Melee. It's not all spacies and combos after all.
something can't be cool if there aren't uncool parts of it
@@sportsboy85 the hell is this supposed to mean?
@@michaelriccio6012 If we didn't know what the boring parts were in melee, then we couldn't define what's cool was in melee is basically what Sp1nda is saying.
@@michaelriccio6012 name one cool thing that doesn't have lame aspects
@@Ben_E_Boi Chimpanzee driving a car
This is incredibly well made. Most underrated youtuber by far.
Amazing quality on this. I was thoroughly entertained.
This is the only melee content keeping me up in quarantine, keep it up guys :)
This is like the Secret Base/Jon Bois content but with Melee instead of irl sports and I'm HERE FOR IT!
"I believe in a melee that isn't sick, and people who are"
Amazing doc bro. I hope you make many more of these
This is one of the greatest pieces of art i have watched, you made an amazing video sir, im astounded
This is one of the best melee videos I've ever seen.
The fact that I'm doing nothing shows my resolve.
Stumbled upon this after getting interested in multiversus, and this is one of the best written videos I’ve ever seen on this platform. Cheers!
Wow. Genuinely fantastic video essay. you inspire me to make my own video essays. thank you. I will remember this masterpiece.
What you've created is not a RUclips video, you've made art. Thank you, I love it.
This is what happens when a community attempts to turn a party can into a formula 1 race car. They did the best they could, but it will still have flaws as the vehicle was originally created to be a party van,
i watch this video once every few months to remind me why i love smash in the first place. probably my favorite video essay ive ever seen. thanks so much for making it.
Damn that was a treat to watch. Always looking forward to your future projects!
Bananas is an absolute madman. I didn't even know him and now I respect him.
best part is the 30 second s2j zoom in
Damn. I find myself coming back to this video a lot. Super well done :)
Brilliant writing. Again. Thank you for the content
"The Only Reason We Play Melee is Because it's Fun"
Nice credits, nice move, incredible video, thank you
The gold standard for content 🔥
Your melee films give an in-depth look into melee's less well known history, and every time, you absolutely kill it.
Can't wait for your next one.
One of the best melee videos ever highkey, great job
the game changing and evolving through mods and rules at the hands of its own players is one of the reasons i play melee, it's such a special thing and no other fighting game is quite like it.
dude i've watched this video like 3 times, you're content is godlike
*your
Good video, respect your attention to detail with actual midroll placement.
I don't play Mele and this is by far one of the best documentaries I've ever watched in my entire life. The production quality was amazing, the beginning Hook was awesome and intriguing, there's nothing I could have wanted more. Thank you so much for this
How to fix melee
Kirby only tournaments, problem solved
Fr tho
I love this video so much. But man, the title did not catch my eye, I would've forgotten to watch it if not for the top player that retweeted it.
This was actually really well made, with some great quotes. Worth the watch
Spectacularly written and delivered. Thank you.
27:54 is the definition of why Melee is still thriving.
my computer bluescreened at 28:44, i didnt realize it wasnt part of the video
Thank you for the great content, loving it
This video is genuinely amazing. Really changed how I view a game I've been playing for over 6 years
"Boring people"
*puts dizzkidboogie on the screen*
I see you
This is the best piece of melee content I've ever consumed
This is a really nice video dude, nice job!
This quality of this video is outstanding. So many thought provoking moments. Love the opening thesis comparing humans to AI as well.
Insanely good.
What I got from this video is that a Jigglypuff - Ice Climbers matchup is like two people pointing guns at eachother.
You are incredible and these videos are exquisite my friend
Very good video! :D Keep up the awesome work!
15:02 ..."or a Fox which doesn't plug his controller " LOL
One problem I have with this narrative is that it propagates the myth wobbling was banned pre-evo 2013
I obsessed over finding out which tourneys banned wobbling back in the day(2010-13) and I distinctly recall almost a 50:50 ban:no ban tourney makeup
When I called people out on this myth they just found evidence that supported my belief
It wasn't ever banned as a standard, it was always contested
great video as always