Fun fact about the German MG 08/15 (mentioned at 23:35): it was so common that "08/15" now means "average, uninteresting, bland" in German and I still hear that phrase a lot here in Vienna! Most people aren't aware of where it originally came from though.
@@klunkeflunken What? That's not true at all. We always had ammo left after qualification because it was so easy to hit with. The M60 was accurate. They just were worn out by the 90s with so many rounds through them. They're still great guns, today, in the M60E6.
There is a common misunderstanding about .50BMG regarding use against personnel. The urban legend is that it is a war crime to shoot personnel with it because it is intended for anti-material/anti-armor purposes. One of the common things you would hear old vets say is, "Aim for their metal belt buckles because they count as armor/equipment." This is actually not true though. There is nothing characteristically about .50BMG that would prevent it from legal use against a person according to The Hague. Some speculate that the origin of such legends stem from Infantry command instructing soldiers to not use .50BMG on personnel in order to conserve limited ammunition supplies during Vietnam. It would suck to run out of anti-material ammo in deep combat and then have to deal with a fortified emplacement. Of course, if you stop and actually think about it, the legend doesn't make any practical sense at all anyway. Are we meant to believe that use of mortars, conventional artillery shells and air dropped bombs are totally fine on personnel but .50BMG is just too much maiming and undue injury?
Also to add on that misnomer; people will often state that its "against the Geneva Conventions" to do so. The Geneva Convention deals with the treatment of persons, not the use of weapons during war. The Hague Conventions were the treaties that deal with the weapons used during war time.
Excellent points, but doesn't the Hague ban expanding bullets while allowing all the aforementioned deadly toys such as artillery etc (not to mention nuclear arsenals)? Always seemed ludicrous to me. I think you're probably right, with a bit of the old "stop using expensive rounds when the cheap ones work" mentality.
You are correct, the Hague does ban the use of expanding bullets except for military police and special missions. However, .50BMG is most often used today in its FMJ Ball form, meaning it is not designed to expand and fits the requirements of standard infantry ammuniton.
Sorry, I do understand that it is predominantly FMJ being used, with a smattering of exotic rounds, I just put that badly. What I meant was in relation to the final sentence of your original post. It would be possible for somebody to think that if expanding bullets are banned, then logically it may follow that something as large and powerful as .50BMG would also be banned.
I'd consider the outliers to be MMGs. They can be used both as HMGs and vaguely like LMGs, and don't necessarily have the upsides or downsides of either.
I like to believe that they had a good laugh at the ordinance department passing the idea around as a joke without thinking that upper management would take it seriously.
It answered the question-How can we throw a lot of lead at the opposition as quickly as possible with what we've got. Surley that comes under the heading of Improvised or Craft built? :-~)
I've been trying to create an item sorting lexicon for an rpg my friends and I have been working on. There are many different weapons to consider, and the nomenclature available is confusing as hell. Your videos have helped me considerably.
There is a common misunderstanding about .50BMG regarding use against personnel. The urban legend is that it is a war crime to shoot personnel with it because it is intended for anti-material/anti-armor purposes. One of the common things you would hear old vets say is, "Aim for their metal belt buckles because they count as armor/equipment." This is actually not true though. There is nothing characteristically about .50BMG that would prevent it from legal use against a person according to The Hague. Some speculate that the origin of such legends stem from Infantry command instructing soldiers to not use .50BMG on personnel in order to conserve limited ammunition supplies during Vietnam. It would suck to run out of anti-material ammo in deep combat and then have to deal with a fortified emplacement. Of course, if you stop and actually think about it, the legend doesn't make any practical sense at all anyway. Are we meant to believe that use of mortars, conventional artillery shells and air dropped bombs are totally fine on personnel but .50BMG is just too much maiming and undue injury?
Same here! For some stuff, I as a sci-fi world-builder just make up some new terminology when applicable but it is certainly helpful to have this real-world basis.
Well, in the Dutch army, every weapon barrel in caliber above 40mm is called artillery. So, basicly every mortar is a heavy weapon. And everything above 120mm is called heavy artillery.
The panthers used wcmg well up into the 80's, for good reason. Lighten the block and.... waalaah particimo. Plus a mg carrier can run faster than any uber-baddass.
When I joined the army in 1994 I started firing machine guns with the M60. After making it to my permanent duty station in FT.Lewis WA we switched to the M240B machine gun and the quick changed barrel was one of the greatest things about that gun. I was in a machine gun squad and part of a 3 man gun squad. Later while close to my discharge date in 1998 I was a M249 gunner before becoming a team leader with the M4. Great thing about being in the infantry
the 240 L of coarse. But in 1994 the version of the 240 we were using was the 240 G with no heat shields out front and we had no technical book for it at all. We had to make our own . Also we would take the gun to the range when we first got it and we're able to knock down 800 meter targets at night with no problem due to the new flex mount on the tripod. The reduced recoil was the best part of the system.
James T43 The FN MAG or Jimpy (GPMG) as we call it....superb machine gun. For a time, I was a jimpy gunner and an L4 A1 (7.62mm Bren) gunner...fantastic fire power. Cant say i had experience with the 249. I have used the G3 or the old MG 42, very good gun!
I would just like to thank whoever does the captions, they are excellent. If RUclips has taught me anything it is that good transcription is invaluable, and that despite all of Google’s computing power, auto-generated captions are still effectively impossible. This channel is so good at what it does it makes me weep for all the rest.
Just one thing to add: after the Korean war anti-aircraft use of HMGs shifted. it is true, that these weapons are obsolete against jet planes, however with the introduction of helicopters to the modern battlefield HMGs still have the potential to take down these aerial vechicles quite effectivly. Light anti-air capabilities alongside infantry portable surface-to-air missile systems still can rely on heavy machineguns.
Another informative video! Great job on all your work. The one machine gun that was conspicuously absent was the M-60. With its weight and belt fed ammo it was a bear to have to hump, but definitely packed a serious punch. The tripod and T&E mechanism provided an excellent base from which to fire it in a defensive position, but it was hellaciously heavy to have to carry on top of one's other gear.
I don't care what Ian says, my old battlebuddy, the MG3 still rules the field! Heck, I'm still sore and heartbroken over having to hand in my G3 for the puny HK416N. Tho, my unit just got the MG3 reissued, to much cheers and celebration, so I'm not all sad :P
@@plasticoflamingo2952 it is. I did it, when I was in the army, using a MAG. However, you don't hold it like Rabo. But from the shoulder and in short bursts. But then, we Dutch are a bit bigger than Americans.
This was really fun to watch. I'd like to see Ian give lectures on history that is not necessarily related to firearms. Of course, I'm sure he has more than enough to do already.
If you mean the hand cranked type, I left them out because they really weren't the same as machine guns. They were treated like artillery for the most part. If you mean modern electrically powered multi-barrel guns, they are all aircraft machine guns, as that's the role where the rate of fire makes practical sense. When deployed on ground vehicles, they are simply repurposed aircraft machine guns. :)
I had a conversation with someone earlier about this, and I personally thought they were always classified as their own genre of weapon, mostly due to being multi-barreled. Even the M134 and other aircraft-bound multi-barrel autocannons are called gatling guns (although I'm not sure if that's an official designation)
I was told (And always believed) that the defining characteristic of a Machine Gun was the ability to self-feed: I.E. Modern Rifles rely on the spring within the magazine to feed the rounds, but a machine gun would eject the casing, pull in a new round, and chamber it autonomously without relying on external force. I also believed that weapons that relied on magazines and fired full sized cartridges were called "Battle Rifles". You learns something new every day! Looking forward to hearing you clear up that segment: The one on Assault/Battle rifles!
For how I see it, the chauchat is a battle rifle, same with the BAR. Automatic rifle really is only a term of usage doctrine, and not so much the physics characteristics of the weapon. For instance, the bar and chauchat are the first gen of battle rifle as they: use box mags of small capacity, fires full power rifle cartridges, full auto fire, heavier platform, while having ergonomics of older weapons. Let’s be honest, they’re just like an Fal, m14 or a G3, I don’t care what they were meant to be used for.
They shoot full power rifle cartridges in full auto. Only have 20 round mags, so they can’t be used effectively as a lmg. They in fact carry many similarities to modern battle rifles.Think of them like an early battle rifle. Automatic rifle is just a usage doctrine.
@@leafgreensniper13You misunderstood the concept of automatic rifles, even though they don't have the same sustained fire capability as other machine guns, they still don't compare to assault rifles/battle rifles (battle rifles/assault rifles has the purpose of making relatively accurate groups with few shots/bursts, if you try to do continuous fire it will compromise not only accuracy, but also the condition of the weapon). Another detail is that automatic rifles used to be in full powered caliber, as it was the main ammunition used by the armed forces, which facilitates logistics (it's not surprising that bolt-action rifles and machine guns were of the same caliber and I would say that only It was with the arrival of submachine guns that this paradigm changed a little, as they already used the same ammunition as pistols, precisely to facilitate logistics). Another thing that shows that automatic rifles are different from battle rifles is that because they are intended to achieve a certain volume of fire, they can be fired from a open bolt (as chauchat and BAR are), which would be unthinkable in a battle rifle, because as I said, they are intended to be relatively accurate. An example that automatic rifles are different from battle rifles is the FAL HBAR (version with a heavier barrel to support greater firepower), because the battle rifle does not have the capacity to carry out a large volume of fire, not even by short periods (of course in an emergency situation you can use the automatic capability, but it is still very limited compared to the automatic rifle). Furthermore, automatic rifles have the idea of being lighter (compared to other machine gun classes), so that they can deliver a good volume of fire during the advance, even though they do not have the same capacity as other machine guns and can be effectively fired from the shoulder. There is a very interesting video discussing the role of the automatic rifle called: Squad Automatic Rifle, from Christopher Larsen channel.
Ian, I'm really glad you made this video. I think this terminology can seem kind of arcane at first, but it really shows the design intent and the tactical roles that ordinance departments were trying to fill.
The GPMG mostly replaced LMGs after the WW2, but not in Great Britain. The Bren Gun (in 7.62x51mm NATO) continued to serve in the LMG / SAW role alongside the GPMG. It could accept the same magazine as the L1A1 rifle. It also continued in use as a vehicle-mounted weapon. It was replaced in the LMG / SAW role by the L86 LSW in the 80s with the adoption of 5.56x45mm as the standard rifle cartridge.
The LMG was used in British regular service (RAF at least) until the early 90's (I was using one in 92) and I think for longer than that in the Territorial units.
@@chrismills8927 The problem with using the LMG mag in the SLR was the fact that the spring was weaker than the SLR mag as it used gravity to help feed the gun as it was fitted to the top of the weapon and just stretching the spring would cause it to snap.
The BREN wasn't phased out after WW2, it was in service with the British Army and Royal Marines until the mid 80's, we had them during the Falklands war, along with the Lee Enfield sniper rifles converted to 7.62.
I'm looking forward to it too. I sometimes play airsoft (don't laugh it's the only non criminal way you can shoot at other people) and they often play pistols only. They constantly say my VZ61 and Mp5K aren't pistols.
Man this was great! Cool to see you look at a variety of guns in a single vid like this, not talking so much about them in detail but describing their role and use. It's nice for someone like me who is as far from an expert on this stuff as you can get, the context adds so much.
I always forget the terminology for MG's. HMG - Heavy Machine Gun MMG - Medium Machine Gun LMG - Light Machine Gun GPMG - General Purpose Machine Gun SAW - Squad Automatic Weapon LSW - Light Support Weapon (I'm just writing these here to try to remember)
Ian I've been loving your videos right from when I found your channel a few years ago. Now finding "my" gun crew with my distinctive self made carrying sling attached to the MG3 in one of your videos just kills it. ;-) The pic was taken at a semi-public demonstration (hence the yellow triangles on the back) and somehow made it to the English Wikipedia page of the MG3... Keep up all those great videos!
Awesome video, Ian, as always! Also want to give a quick shout-out to whoever did the Chinese caption: You did a really good job! (I can see that the translator is someone who actually knows guns and their terminologies, which, of course, I knew I could expect from a person Ian chose to work with him.) Thank you guys, and keep up the great work! Happy New Year from Canada!
dandhan87 my battalion did a dm course and that’s what we used with match grade ammo and it’s damn near a 1 moa gun with match grade ammo but the bullet is really light so wind carries it more than a 7.62
dandhan87 if only I am carrying the weapon system and the ammo as well as a m4 with 6 mags I don’t think it will be any different from the things I’ve carried before some things it would be lighter and I would just throw the 7.62 in my assault pack and strap the weapon system to my assault pack as well and then employ it as needed
It's funny that the USA has to re-arm its' military just to have full auto assault rifles. Most countries just issued FA from the get-go and hammered into their soldiers fire discipline.
7:08 I was typing in something about the HK416 arguably being the modern equivalent of the old-style automatic rifle at that exact moment and then Ian cut me off at the pass. I was a fool to think I could outsmart Gun Jesus!
Regarding the discussion at the end about "a really bad light machine gun" etc.: never forget that the way to make any piece of military equipment "man portable" is to attach handles to it. Job done!
Fun Fact: The MG 08/15 is the Origin of a German figure of speech ("08/15"), which means something like mediocre, average (or below average), "common but not really that great"
A lot of soldiers probably hated that gun with passion after they had carry it during an assaults or any other activity which involved walking and running with it.
I was thinking the same when I heard him talk about it. I always thought it had something to do with time though (like a 08/15 job that would usually start at 08:15, even if that doesn't make much sense ;))
In the Canadian army I used C5 machine guns, which were Browning 1919 MG's converted to fire 7.62. We fired them from tripods or as vehicle coax mounts. I think we had buttstocks for them but they were different that the one you showed on the Israeli gun. We referred to them as GPMGs. They were replaced by C6 machine guns (MAG 58) that we also referred to as GPMGs
I genuinely have to say, thank you, Ian. This was actually much more informative than I anticipated, and cleared up some things surrounding the terminology of machine guns I couldn’t find anywhere else.
Hey Ian, I really like this type of video where you talk about processing all of this knowledge about firearms and their use. It seems like an ideal way to join all of the mechanical knowledge of Forgotten Weapons with the more abstract concepts of "tactical use" from InRange. I hope to see more vids like this in the future!
I would separate the SAW and LSW classifications. I would define SAW as a purpose designed machine gun, typically belt fed firing an intermediate cartridge. For example the Minimi/M249, Ultimax, or CETME Ameli. I would define LSW as a machine gun adaptation of an assault rifle, typically box magazine fed. For example, the L86 LSW, M27 IAR or the RPK.
240 gunner here. Best damn MG I ever used. 8 inch beaten zones at 1000 meters with open sights. I’m the farthest thing from a PT stud and I still was able to hump it around fine. It’s got my vote for the best GPMG ever made.
Lloyd's video was sufficient to explain differences to the average person (short and simple). Ian's is more comprehensive.. less tangential, and more detailed, but this is Ian's specialty so it's a given. I used to show Lloyds, when I couldn't be bothered, this one will replace it.
Lindy is a british with a limited experience & knowledge about firearms but do his best effort to explain the topic, lan is american & a shooter & gun connoseiur. There' s a world of difference between both.
stranger guy bon soir mon amis, jai habit en france pendant sept ans maintenant...Charente Maritime....votre anglais, c'est bien! Mon francais pas bien mai je essayez tous les jour!
@Stranger Sam - Your English here is parfait. Vive la France y le français! Did you know that Ian is learning more French for his upcoming book on French military rifles?
This was just insanly informative, I learned allot here! Your work is pretty solid Ian. Also your voice and way of talking is really easy to follow despite all the thick history and dificult termologies :)
This was excellent. Very informative and interesting. Some of the terminology can be confusing, especially in the case of how the HMG has evolved over the years, and this video really helps with all this.
Love these concept videos, 'machinegun terminology' and 'rifle lengths'. Very interesting and informative. I've someone's new to guns this is probably one of the better ways to get them diving into the deep end of it.
I remember a Lindy Beige video on this at least a year ago that covered this, that helped me out a lot but its nice to see a more specific method from a weapons expert.
*UPDATE*: the USMC is now rotating in the M27 IAR (HK416) as not only it’s Automatic Rifle role, but also as the standard DMR and infantry rifle. Exceptions include medical staff, unit leaders, and anyone requiring lightweight kit or a 40mm underbarrel (m203 not currently compatible)
I wish I could buy you a beer, you are simply awesome. Always shedding some light and experienced knowledge on topics that always peak my interest. Probably overall the best channel I've found on RUclips, although The Great War is a close second. :)
Very interesting! I hope you don't mind me saying, but Lindybeige has also done a video on machine gun terminology, and I think it makes a nice supplement to this video, especially for those who are primarily interested in WWII terminology.
Sir Godz-Very funny. Actually, the Chauchat in 8 mm Lebel worked very well. When the army demanded it be converted to 30-06 the problems started. Jamming due to extraction problems that never showed up with Lebel cartridges. Lebel is rimmed, 06 is rimless.
Ian, this is one of most interesting videos I've seen in a while. Thank you so much. My question is why do you consider the M27 to be a Automatic Rifle and not a Squad Automatic Rifle? The M27 fires a 5.56 NATO round from a STANAG magazine.
When I was in the Service anything over .50 Cal (12.7mm) was classified as Cannon. I took the cut off to mean the M2 is there just to define the upper limit of what a HMG can be. I have a paper weight of a deactivated Training 30mm cannon round from a GAU-8, it boggles the mind that that thing can spit out 3900rpm but it definitely is not a machine gun anymore.
Another fantastic video. You are constantly expanding my knowledge. I really appreciate the work you do! How do you define an LAR vs a MG? You call a BAR an LAR but a BREN is a MG, why? I generally think LAR when it's mag feed and an MG when belt is the primary feed. When I joined the Army our SAW was a heavy barrel select fire FAL. We referred to it as an LAR. No QC barrel, barrel heavier than a rifle but lighter than a 1919. Barrel weight or QC. As I said great job again. You & Karl do a great job on InRange too! I always check one channel than the other.
I've found your channel few days ago and I love it! Extensive information, well presented and perfectly explained. Thank to your work I get to know interesting weapon which no one talks about. You have here a new subscriber. Nos vemos
YOU FORGOT SUB-MACHINE GUNS. I mean, they fulfill a completely different role then the weapons you described, and use a completely different cartridge, but dammit it's got machine gun in the name and no doubt there's a confused COD kiddy out there who needs the record set straight.
Will there be any video on the type of rifles or sniper rifles ? Like a marksman rifle sniper rifle anti material rifle blah blah blah and the different types of assault rifles
Perhaps a better term for that Israel .50 would be a modern medium machine gun since it’s in between a modern light and heavy machine gun like the 1930’s-40’s ones were in between light and heavy machine guns of their day
What would you say would be the fundamental differences between a machine rifle and an assault rifle? Seems like they are essentially the same but the rifles are older and thus heavier
I would say it's a matter of relative firepower. The automatic rifle/machine rifle is intended to provide more fire than the service rifle it is being used with. Hence, BAR/Springfield and Chauchat/Lebel, and M27/M4.
an assault rifle takes an intermediate round and has a selection of firing modes one of which being full auto. this would be a step up from the smgs like the Thompson or the ppsh, that fired a pistol round with lower accuracy.
no, that would be a technical diffrences based on nessisary operations, i think that the main diffrences would come in with the cartridge, an automatic rifle being a full rifle cartage where the assault rifle uses an intermediate cartridge.
Excellent video! The automatic rifle and the light machine guns were always a blurry distinction, and this video clarified it. Also, the M1919A6 struck me as an attempt to make a BAR out of the M1919A4. Your definitions are very useful, but as you pointed out, there are always exceptions to the rules.
I still wonder about USMC's decision to drop the SAW in favour of the IAR. I know the SAW is heavy and not entirely reliable, but it seems to me that "accurate supressive fire" is a bit of an oxymoron. They're trying to use the thing as a DMR as well apparently. A marksman can keep heads down, but it will never be as effective as sustained automatic fire. Otherwise ammunition-strapped armies all over would have adopted the "supressive DMR" concept. In short, I'm not buying what they're selling.
A Ronk basically, the m27 can be repurposed to whatever it need A to be. Loaded with a drum magazine and full auto, it provides accurate suppressive fire. Switch it to semi auto, it can become a dmr in the hands of a marksman. And suppressive fire is just fire that keeps a enemy's head down. It's a lot. Easier to do that when bullet are whizzing over your head constantly, instead of going all over the place. So effective suppressive fire should be, and almost has to be, accurate. They aren't saying the m27 can be used as a dmr and a suppressive weapon at the same time, the u.s military just wants the gun to switch roles when it needs to. AND seeing as the u.s navy and marines have already adopted it, it must be working
I am going with the theory that the Marines wanted a new rifle and didn't want to take the 5+ years it would take to get thru testing plus getting the other branches involved. So they backdoored the M27 as a supplement to the SAW and bam they get a new rifle that has a fun switch.
That's all well and good until your drum mag jams. There's a reason why the Corps is issuing them with 30rd mags. Honestly, if they could issue them with 60s and a bipod, it would be equivalent to an RPK, which is a great SAW platform.
A Ronk the drum mags are working though. They aren't typical drum mags like the ones on the m249, they are more akin to the drum mag you see on rpks, which very rarely jam, and certainly jam a helluva lot less than a belt fed weapon. They aren't going for perfect, they are going for consistent, something the m249 is doing horribly on. He'll, this might just be a transition until they find a better saw weapon, we don't know yet
The SAW only jams like it does because of that stupid mag feed option. A good belt feed system is going to be as reliable as a magazine, if not more so if the belts are maintained properly (if not disintegrating belts). I've never used the M27 drum, but every .556 drum I've had experience with is less reliable than a stick mag. Now, like I said, if they can get the thing working like the RPK does with its 60 round sticks and tack a Harris on, I think it would be a decent SAW. I'm not so sure about the decision to replace the DMR with it though. I can see an advantage if you were to replace the squad marksman's weapon and the SAW gunner's weapon with one though. You could get double supressive fire and double DMR by cross-training both men. Would be a real force multiplier in certain situations.
Damn, trying to carrying around a 45 lbs. weapon must have been just awful. Anything above 20 lbs. is tiring after a few hours but 45 would just be brutal
Fun fact about the German MG 08/15 (mentioned at 23:35): it was so common that "08/15" now means "average, uninteresting, bland" in German and I still hear that phrase a lot here in Vienna! Most people aren't aware of where it originally came from though.
Doubt it
X to doubt
Double doubt
@@mountainmamma1643 look it up its actually true
@@mountainmamma1643 I'm german and can confirm
The Chauchat wasn't an automatic rifle it was a specially made gun for jam clearing practice
was that a joke? if so HA good one
Not true. The Chauchat worked fine with the rimmed Lebel case. Not so with the rimless '06 case.
and to make a still.
@@janlabij7302r/woooosh?
@Noah Sanders you have the right idea, but it’s a bit of a stretch
PKM is Ivan's favorite conceal carry.
For the God sake....how ivan can conceal the PKM?
@@bronxkal9275 lots of vodka and gulag time
the M61 Vulcan is his favourite home defence weapon
Americans: "Acuracy is more important then volume of fire for suppression"
Germans: * Angry MG42 noises *
155 howitzers lob nukes a little accuracy is a nice bonus. For dam busting
-- Said the American as he was leaving his A10 warthog
The m60 is horribly inaccurate compared to the mg3 though
@@klunkeflunken Well fuck the M60. The proper comparison is M1919 Browning 30 cal machine gun to the MG42.
@@klunkeflunken
What? That's not true at all.
We always had ammo left after qualification because it was so easy to hit with.
The M60 was accurate. They just were worn out by the 90s with so many rounds through them.
They're still great guns, today, in the M60E6.
There is a common misunderstanding about .50BMG regarding use against personnel. The urban legend is that it is a war crime to shoot personnel with it because it is intended for anti-material/anti-armor purposes. One of the common things you would hear old vets say is, "Aim for their metal belt buckles because they count as armor/equipment." This is actually not true though. There is nothing characteristically about .50BMG that would prevent it from legal use against a person according to The Hague. Some speculate that the origin of such legends stem from Infantry command instructing soldiers to not use .50BMG on personnel in order to conserve limited ammunition supplies during Vietnam. It would suck to run out of anti-material ammo in deep combat and then have to deal with a fortified emplacement.
Of course, if you stop and actually think about it, the legend doesn't make any practical sense at all anyway. Are we meant to believe that use of mortars, conventional artillery shells and air dropped bombs are totally fine on personnel but .50BMG is just too much maiming and undue injury?
Also to add on that misnomer; people will often state that its "against the Geneva Conventions" to do so. The Geneva Convention deals with the treatment of persons, not the use of weapons during war. The Hague Conventions were the treaties that deal with the weapons used during war time.
Good call out.
Excellent points, but doesn't the Hague ban expanding bullets while allowing all the aforementioned deadly toys such as artillery etc (not to mention nuclear arsenals)? Always seemed ludicrous to me. I think you're probably right, with a bit of the old "stop using expensive rounds when the cheap ones work" mentality.
You are correct, the Hague does ban the use of expanding bullets except for military police and special missions. However, .50BMG is most often used today in its FMJ Ball form, meaning it is not designed to expand and fits the requirements of standard infantry ammuniton.
Sorry, I do understand that it is predominantly FMJ being used, with a smattering of exotic rounds, I just put that badly. What I meant was in relation to the final sentence of your original post. It would be possible for somebody to think that if expanding bullets are banned, then logically it may follow that something as large and powerful as .50BMG would also be banned.
LSW - also known as Long Silly Weapon.
Perfect to accompany your silly walks!
ravemastaj I'm gonna have to have a talk with the Ministry to approve that comment
Dammit, I kind of expected the Spanish Inquisition.
John Slavin LSW - LONG STICKY WANG
time stamps
HMG 0:43
MMG 2:24
Automatic Rifle 4:15
LMG 8:15
GPMG 11:20
SAW 16:12
HMG (Redux, modern definition) 19:20
Outliers 21:32
Thank you
Yes, thank you!
@@heyitsdrew hopefully they are the target's lol
11:20 is actually GMPG, lol
11:20 general machine purpose gun?
I'd consider the outliers to be MMGs. They can be used both as HMGs and vaguely like LMGs, and don't necessarily have the upsides or downsides of either.
It really is good to be explained all the little details in that jungle of abbreviations and differences that people normally are not aware of.
?
1919A6 ... the heavy light machine gun.
Eh, it's all relative
It's like they looked at the MG08/15 and thought, Yes! We need more of that! :)
I like to believe that they had a good laugh at the ordinance department passing the idea around as a joke without thinking that upper management would take it seriously.
It answered the question-How can we throw a lot of lead at the opposition as quickly as possible with what we've got. Surley that comes under the heading of Improvised or Craft built? :-~)
Maxim-Tokarev also made looking at 08/15
This is one for the support players...
AMMO BAG ! AMMO ! I NEED SOM FOOKING BULLETS HERE OUTTA AMMO! Man do support players even know how to support their teammates lol
@@npne1253
no basically every new players chose support class in any games for the LMG because 30 rounds aint enough for em
Except bipods in real life actually worked...
I've been trying to create an item sorting lexicon for an rpg my friends and I have been working on. There are many different weapons to consider, and the nomenclature available is confusing as hell. Your videos have helped me considerably.
There is a common misunderstanding about .50BMG regarding use against personnel. The urban legend is that it is a war crime to shoot personnel with it because it is intended for anti-material/anti-armor purposes. One of the common things you would hear old vets say is, "Aim for their metal belt buckles because they count as armor/equipment." This is actually not true though. There is nothing characteristically about .50BMG that would prevent it from legal use against a person according to The Hague. Some speculate that the origin of such legends stem from Infantry command instructing soldiers to not use .50BMG on personnel in order to conserve limited ammunition supplies during Vietnam. It would suck to run out of anti-material ammo in deep combat and then have to deal with a fortified emplacement.
Of course, if you stop and actually think about it, the legend doesn't make any practical sense at all anyway. Are we meant to believe that use of mortars, conventional artillery shells and air dropped bombs are totally fine on personnel but .50BMG is just too much maiming and undue injury?
Same here! For some stuff, I as a sci-fi world-builder just make up some new terminology when applicable but it is certainly helpful to have this real-world basis.
@@jeremy5602 probably a comment bot. They're everywhere these days
Which begs the age old question: is a mortar small arms or artillery?
Mortars are light weapons or heavy weapons, depending on caliber. The cutoff is typically around 120mm, but subject to debate.
Well, in the Dutch army, every weapon barrel in caliber above 40mm is called artillery. So, basicly every mortar is a heavy weapon. And everything above 120mm is called heavy artillery.
Dutchman 2. Username checks out.
US Army regards 90mm and 106mm Recoiless, 60mm, 80mm, and 4.2 Inch Mortars as Small Arms. Geoff Who was a 45B20 in the 1970s.
The Mexican army regards everything above 80 mm as artillery and is operated by that branch. That left infantry branch without recoilless rifles.
"Guns only fired effectively from their mounts"
*John Basilone intensifies*
My definitions are for normal humans, not uber-badasses. :)
*British Army intensifies*
*Jesse Ventura has joined the chat
@ how no?
The panthers used wcmg well up into the 80's, for good reason. Lighten the block and.... waalaah particimo. Plus a mg carrier can run faster than any uber-baddass.
Cool video. Best explanation of MG classes I've heard.
23:38 And seeing Ian shooting a maxim gun from the hip in a German helmet was priceless.
obligatory "LMG, MOUNTED AND LOADED"
69th like
WALL CAN WITHSTAND ASSAULT
@@calebbutler5566 DP-28/DPM. Not DP-08.
Dinner is served
obligatory “EEEEEYATATATATATATA”
ian is a proper bloke.
everything always looks very neat and squared away in the background but covered in about 5 inches of dust. just like my house!
When I joined the army in 1994 I started firing machine guns with the M60. After making it to my permanent duty station in FT.Lewis WA we switched to the M240B machine gun and the quick changed barrel was one of the greatest things about that gun. I was in a machine gun squad and part of a 3 man gun squad. Later while close to my discharge date in 1998 I was a M249 gunner before becoming a team leader with the M4. Great thing about being in the infantry
240L carved a bunch of the weight off, used them in Afghanistan. great weapons
Which one was your favorite tho?
the 240 L of coarse. But in 1994 the version of the 240 we were using was the 240 G with no heat shields out front and we had no technical book for it at all. We had to make our own . Also we would take the gun to the range when we first got it and we're able to knock down 800 meter targets at night with no problem due to the new flex mount on the tripod. The reduced recoil was the best part of the system.
James T43 The FN MAG or Jimpy (GPMG) as we call it....superb machine gun. For a time, I was a jimpy gunner and an L4 A1 (7.62mm Bren) gunner...fantastic fire power. Cant say i had experience with the 249. I have used the G3 or the old MG 42, very good gun!
Matthew Dobbs :; I would really like to have a go with the MG42.
I would just like to thank whoever does the captions, they are excellent. If RUclips has taught me anything it is that good transcription is invaluable, and that despite all of Google’s computing power, auto-generated captions are still effectively impossible. This channel is so good at what it does it makes me weep for all the rest.
Am I the only one disappointed that there wasn’t even a passing mention of the M60?
Yeah, I was surprised he could talk about GPMGs without mentioning the M60.
Me too as it is used from the hip/shoulder and is belt fed
PKM master race
Mg42 top-cover slapped on a BAR/1919 hybrid with a quick change barrel its general purpose because its literally is every class mushed into one
yes
0:44 Ooo, graphics!
Ikr😂
WHOA IAN DON'T BREAK THE BUDGET
J Slik standard IMovie text animation lol.
SPEEDYNOOB r/whoosh
Easy there Michael Bay!
Just one thing to add: after the Korean war anti-aircraft use of HMGs shifted. it is true, that these weapons are obsolete against jet planes, however with the introduction of helicopters to the modern battlefield HMGs still have the potential to take down these aerial vechicles quite effectivly. Light anti-air capabilities alongside infantry portable surface-to-air missile systems still can rely on heavy machineguns.
Just what I said.
Heard that most of USA copter losses in Vietnam were due to HMGs.
"Dempsey always told me LMG stood for 'Lick My Gibblets'"
-Richtofen
"So I grabbed Dempsey and demanded to know what LMG really stood and he said 'Let me go dumbass'... I did not know it was LMGD"
-Richtofen
Another informative video! Great job on all your work. The one machine gun that was conspicuously absent was the M-60. With its weight and belt fed ammo it was a bear to have to hump, but definitely packed a serious punch. The tripod and T&E mechanism provided an excellent base from which to fire it in a defensive position, but it was hellaciously heavy to have to carry on top of one's other gear.
I don't care what Ian says, my old battlebuddy, the MG3 still rules the field!
Heck, I'm still sore and heartbroken over having to hand in my G3 for the puny HK416N.
Tho, my unit just got the MG3 reissued, to much cheers and celebration, so I'm not all sad :P
shut up
Good gun. We still use it too, it is just called the MG74. I wouldn't want any other gun to cover me.
The m60e3. Rambo used it like an smg
Yeah but stalones arm looked like it was about to pop in Every scene.
really not possible, even for a big guy, to fire effectively without a mount. i used to carry one, basically a fire hose of bullets.
rambo can use two Maxim's on each hand! :-)
Lol!
@@plasticoflamingo2952 it is. I did it, when I was in the army, using a MAG. However, you don't hold it like Rabo. But from the shoulder and in short bursts. But then, we Dutch are a bit bigger than Americans.
This was really fun to watch. I'd like to see Ian give lectures on history that is not necessarily related to firearms. Of course, I'm sure he has more than enough to do already.
I'm a bit surprised you never went over the oddity of the M60 and how that turned out, popping in and out of service in a few ways.
I'm also surprised he doesn't mention it but it is a pretty classic GPMG, more deserving of the term than the M240 really
Now what about Gatling guns? Are they considered some form of machine guns, or are they just considered gatling guns?
Ignore this if he's already covered it
If you mean the hand cranked type, I left them out because they really weren't the same as machine guns. They were treated like artillery for the most part. If you mean modern electrically powered multi-barrel guns, they are all aircraft machine guns, as that's the role where the rate of fire makes practical sense. When deployed on ground vehicles, they are simply repurposed aircraft machine guns. :)
I had a conversation with someone earlier about this, and I personally thought they were always classified as their own genre of weapon, mostly due to being multi-barreled. Even the M134 and other aircraft-bound multi-barrel autocannons are called gatling guns (although I'm not sure if that's an official designation)
They are manually operated machine guns. The term machine gun originated with them.
TheGoldenCaulk Having multiple barrels does not really change the tactical role of the firearm that much. Just means it takes longer to overheat.
I was told (And always believed) that the defining characteristic of a Machine Gun was the ability to self-feed: I.E. Modern Rifles rely on the spring within the magazine to feed the rounds, but a machine gun would eject the casing, pull in a new round, and chamber it autonomously without relying on external force.
I also believed that weapons that relied on magazines and fired full sized cartridges were called "Battle Rifles". You learns something new every day!
Looking forward to hearing you clear up that segment: The one on Assault/Battle rifles!
For how I see it, the chauchat is a battle rifle, same with the BAR. Automatic rifle really is only a term of usage doctrine, and not so much the physics characteristics of the weapon. For instance, the bar and chauchat are the first gen of battle rifle as they: use box mags of small capacity, fires full power rifle cartridges, full auto fire, heavier platform, while having ergonomics of older weapons. Let’s be honest, they’re just like an Fal, m14 or a G3, I don’t care what they were meant to be used for.
@@leafgreensniper13 They are nothing like the FAL, M14, or G3. They're too heavy to be battle rifles, and besides, they lack select fire.
They shoot full power rifle cartridges in full auto. Only have 20 round mags, so they can’t be used effectively as a lmg. They in fact carry many similarities to modern battle rifles.Think of them like an early battle rifle. Automatic rifle is just a usage doctrine.
@@leafgreensniper13You misunderstood the concept of automatic rifles, even though they don't have the same sustained fire capability as other machine guns, they still don't compare to assault rifles/battle rifles (battle rifles/assault rifles has the purpose of making relatively accurate groups with few shots/bursts, if you try to do continuous fire it will compromise not only accuracy, but also the condition of the weapon).
Another detail is that automatic rifles used to be in full powered caliber, as it was the main ammunition used by the armed forces, which facilitates logistics (it's not surprising that bolt-action rifles and machine guns were of the same caliber and I would say that only It was with the arrival of submachine guns that this paradigm changed a little, as they already used the same ammunition as pistols, precisely to facilitate logistics).
Another thing that shows that automatic rifles are different from battle rifles is that because they are intended to achieve a certain volume of fire, they can be fired from a open bolt (as chauchat and BAR are), which would be unthinkable in a battle rifle, because as I said, they are intended to be relatively accurate.
An example that automatic rifles are different from battle rifles is the FAL HBAR (version with a heavier barrel to support greater firepower), because the battle rifle does not have the capacity to carry out a large volume of fire, not even by short periods (of course in an emergency situation you can use the automatic capability, but it is still very limited compared to the automatic rifle).
Furthermore, automatic rifles have the idea of being lighter (compared to other machine gun classes), so that they can deliver a good volume of fire during the advance, even though they do not have the same capacity as other machine guns and can be effectively fired from the shoulder.
There is a very interesting video discussing the role of the automatic rifle called: Squad Automatic Rifle, from Christopher Larsen channel.
Keep these terminology and tech vids coming along with the history and indepth vids. :)
Glad you noted the 249’s unreliable magazine feeding issues, it is extremely tedious and just better off left alone.
Ian, I'm really glad you made this video. I think this terminology can seem kind of arcane at first, but it really shows the design intent and the tactical roles that ordinance departments were trying to fill.
The GPMG mostly replaced LMGs after the WW2, but not in Great Britain.
The Bren Gun (in 7.62x51mm NATO) continued to serve in the LMG / SAW role alongside the GPMG. It could accept the same magazine as the L1A1 rifle. It also continued in use as a vehicle-mounted weapon.
It was replaced in the LMG / SAW role by the L86 LSW in the 80s with the adoption of 5.56x45mm as the standard rifle cartridge.
marvincz3 or you could use the 30rd bren mag in the l1a1 lots of fun
The LMG was used in British regular service (RAF at least) until the early 90's (I was using one in 92) and I think for longer than that in the Territorial units.
@@chrismills8927 The problem with using the LMG mag in the SLR was the fact that the spring was weaker than the SLR mag as it used gravity to help feed the gun as it was fitted to the top of the weapon and just stretching the spring would cause it to snap.
The BREN wasn't phased out after WW2, it was in service with the British Army and Royal Marines until the mid 80's, we had them during the Falklands war, along with the Lee Enfield sniper rifles converted to 7.62.
LOVED Ian’s demonstration at the end of the video of the chopped Maxim: his little “trot” made my day! Keep it up buddy!
In regards to the Automatic Rifle, those old words ring true.
"Nihil novi sub Sole." Nothing is new under the Sun.
shut up
can u do (or have u done) a video on the differences between submachineguns? eg a PDW, SMG and machine pistol?
That is the next one in this series. :)
looking forward to it
I'm looking forward to it too. I sometimes play airsoft (don't laugh it's the only non criminal way you can shoot at other people) and they often play pistols only. They constantly say my VZ61 and Mp5K aren't pistols.
Ken Morgan MP5Ks arent really pistols. Skorpions toe the line a lot more though i think
Butbut Maschinen~pistole so it's a pistol :D
Man this was great! Cool to see you look at a variety of guns in a single vid like this, not talking so much about them in detail but describing their role and use. It's nice for someone like me who is as far from an expert on this stuff as you can get, the context adds so much.
Already familiar: check
Still interested: check
Not applicable to daily life: check
No firearms experience: check
Still watched: C H E C K
just gonna brag a bit here: my unit just assigned me as the SAW gunner for my squad 😎
forget about the fact that im in a non-deployable unit 😢
I always forget the terminology for MG's.
HMG - Heavy Machine Gun
MMG - Medium Machine Gun
LMG - Light Machine Gun
GPMG - General Purpose Machine Gun
SAW - Squad Automatic Weapon
LSW - Light Support Weapon
(I'm just writing these here to try to remember)
@@gloomsouls I mean, it's eco friendly, at least you are not wasting any paper. 🤔😁
Cool, another Rudy
That editing really caught me off guard
Straight out of 2005
Ian I've been loving your videos right from when I found your channel a few years ago. Now finding "my" gun crew with my distinctive self made carrying sling attached to the MG3 in one of your videos just kills it. ;-) The pic was taken at a semi-public demonstration (hence the yellow triangles on the back) and somehow made it to the English Wikipedia page of the MG3...
Keep up all those great videos!
Awesome video, Ian, as always!
Also want to give a quick shout-out to whoever did the Chinese caption: You did a really good job!
(I can see that the translator is someone who actually knows guns and their terminologies, which, of course, I knew I could expect from a person Ian chose to work with him.)
Thank you guys, and keep up the great work! Happy New Year from Canada!
I'd never think that a half hour long video on the finer points of classification and terminology could be this entertaining.
You should be a history teacher
Am I not already?
Forgotten Weapons your the best history teacher/weapons instructer on youtube and the Internet at that
Forgotten Weapons you are👍
@@ForgottenWeapons If there was an in person classroom, that you used to teach about guns, I would absolutely be a student haha.
He is duh
It's funny that Ian mentioned M27 IAR as USMC has now decided to field it as DMR also
dandhan87 my battalion did a dm course and that’s what we used with match grade ammo and it’s damn near a 1 moa gun with match grade ammo but the bullet is really light so wind carries it more than a 7.62
Alex Grashel I think ammo commonality will be great on a platoon / squad level carrying separate ammo type for just one gun will be a pain point
dandhan87 if only I am carrying the weapon system and the ammo as well as a m4 with 6 mags I don’t think it will be any different from the things I’ve carried before some things it would be lighter and I would just throw the 7.62 in my assault pack and strap the weapon system to my assault pack as well and then employ it as needed
It's funny that the USA has to re-arm its' military just to have full auto assault rifles. Most countries just issued FA from the get-go and hammered into their soldiers fire discipline.
@@cutekittes3 you think you could hit a target consistently in full auto at 300 yards with it? with a bipod of course
7:08 I was typing in something about the HK416 arguably being the modern equivalent of the old-style automatic rifle at that exact moment and then Ian cut me off at the pass. I was a fool to think I could outsmart Gun Jesus!
Regarding the discussion at the end about "a really bad light machine gun" etc.: never forget that the way to make any piece of military equipment "man portable" is to attach handles to it. Job done!
Fun Fact: The MG 08/15 is the Origin of a German figure of speech ("08/15"), which means something like mediocre, average (or below average), "common but not really that great"
A lot of soldiers probably hated that gun with passion after they had carry it during an assaults or any other activity which involved walking and running with it.
I was thinking the same when I heard him talk about it. I always thought it had something to do with time though (like a 08/15 job that would usually start at 08:15, even if that doesn't make much sense ;))
Well.. 8 out of 15 (08/15) is really a mediocre score
Funny that the French commanders thought their Chauchats were bad, while thought the 08/15 was great and the Germans thought the exact opposite.
It was great to have on your side, just the poor buggers who carried it hated it more than their enemy.
Drinking game : take a shot every time he says "sustained" lol
Great video as always !
Bourbon? something a little stronger or a lot stronger like Moonshine?
Aaron S ethyl alcohol could work.
I'm not sure that game could be sustained for very long.
In the Canadian army I used C5 machine guns, which were Browning 1919 MG's converted to fire 7.62. We fired them from tripods or as vehicle coax mounts. I think we had buttstocks for them but they were different that the one you showed on the Israeli gun. We referred to them as GPMGs. They were replaced by C6 machine guns (MAG 58) that we also referred to as GPMGs
I genuinely have to say, thank you, Ian. This was actually much more informative than I anticipated, and cleared up some things surrounding the terminology of machine guns I couldn’t find anywhere else.
cozy sweater jesus
Jesus wasn’t white though
strys Obviously you do. If you really didn’t care you would just go past it. Wanna talk about it?
strys You’re going to have to one day my friend. Good luck.
Cozy sweater Custerd
His sweater is made of gun belt canvas.
Hey Ian, I really like this type of video where you talk about processing all of this knowledge about firearms and their use. It seems like an ideal way to join all of the mechanical knowledge of Forgotten Weapons with the more abstract concepts of "tactical use" from InRange.
I hope to see more vids like this in the future!
I would separate the SAW and LSW classifications. I would define SAW as a purpose designed machine gun, typically belt fed firing an intermediate cartridge. For example the Minimi/M249, Ultimax, or CETME Ameli. I would define LSW as a machine gun adaptation of an assault rifle, typically box magazine fed. For example, the L86 LSW, M27 IAR or the RPK.
240 gunner here. Best damn MG I ever used. 8 inch beaten zones at 1000 meters with open sights. I’m the farthest thing from a PT stud and I still was able to hump it around fine. It’s got my vote for the best GPMG ever made.
Better than Lindybeige's video on the topic at least haha
BLASPHEMY
Lloyd's video was sufficient to explain differences to the average person (short and simple). Ian's is more comprehensive.. less tangential, and more detailed, but this is Ian's specialty so it's a given.
I used to show Lloyds, when I couldn't be bothered, this one will replace it.
Lloyd is BRITISH and has a certain ... orientation ... to the British Army view from WWII especially. Geoff Who notes it was informative.
Lindy is a british with a limited experience & knowledge about firearms but do his best effort to explain the topic, lan is american & a shooter & gun connoseiur. There' s a world of difference between both.
Spandau intensifies.
Your video taught me a lot of things thank you ! (sorry for my English I'm French)
You speak English better than I speak French!
stranger guy bon soir mon amis, jai habit en france pendant sept ans maintenant...Charente Maritime....votre anglais, c'est bien! Mon francais pas bien mai je essayez tous les jour!
Thanks guys !
I accept your apology for being French
@Stranger Sam - Your English here is parfait. Vive la France y le français! Did you know that Ian is learning more French for his upcoming book on French military rifles?
Awesome video, Ian. Loved the M-27 while I was in. Like the tactical concept of precision over volume.
This was just insanly informative, I learned allot here! Your work is pretty solid Ian. Also your voice and way of talking is really easy to follow despite all the thick history and dificult termologies :)
This guys job seems awesome.
History and firearms
11:20 General Murpose Pachine Gun
I'm glad someone else saw it.
This was excellent. Very informative and interesting. Some of the terminology can be confusing, especially in the case of how the HMG has evolved over the years, and this video really helps with all this.
Great great video, seems very well researched, great calm yet not slow presentation. Well done sir!
Don't think you can fool us Ian this video topic is just an excuse for you to show off your machine gun collection
Literally nothing I put on the table was a machine gun. :)
oof
@@ForgottenWeapons Is this a joke or am I clueless?
11:21 You put GMPG instead of GPMG
General Machine-Purpose Gun, I suppose?
Gun, Machine, Purpose-General
General Machine Purpose Gun
Richard Roberts Ahh... Lovely Welsh
General Philip Morgan's Gun.
‘Squad Automatic Weapon’ sounds like a clumsy term used to create an artificial distinction between modern and historic light machine guns.
Love these concept videos, 'machinegun terminology' and 'rifle lengths'. Very interesting and informative. I've someone's new to guns this is probably one of the better ways to get them diving into the deep end of it.
6:00 fudds *laughs in 9mm belt fed AR*
23:36 Krawling Kaiser Fire!!!
The History Guy
I love this video, both because it's informative, and because Ian gets to show off some hardware ;)
I remember a Lindy Beige video on this at least a year ago that covered this, that helped me out a lot but its nice to see a more specific method from a weapons expert.
*UPDATE*: the USMC is now rotating in the M27 IAR (HK416) as not only it’s Automatic Rifle role, but also as the standard DMR and infantry rifle. Exceptions include medical staff, unit leaders, and anyone requiring lightweight kit or a 40mm underbarrel (m203 not currently compatible)
I always thought SAW stood for Semi-Automatic Wifle!
I wish I could buy you a beer, you are simply awesome. Always shedding some light and experienced knowledge on topics that always peak my interest. Probably overall the best channel I've found on RUclips, although The Great War is a close second. :)
Very interesting! I hope you don't mind me saying, but Lindybeige has also done a video on machine gun terminology, and I think it makes a nice supplement to this video, especially for those who are primarily interested in WWII terminology.
The RPD is a SAW right?
Yes, despite being belt fed.
The first, right?
Certainly the first to be widely adopted, yes.
RPD was a Handheld Machine Gun which is a typical eastern term for LMG/SAW hybrid.
When are we gona see a video on your Chauchat?
I think he is still waiting for it because of the NFA process.
+go away yes, but he bought a .30-06 Chauchat via auction this year.
likely when he figures out how to do a disassembly without it jamming then breaking.
Sir Godz-Very funny. Actually, the Chauchat in 8 mm Lebel worked very well. When the army demanded it be converted to 30-06 the problems started. Jamming due to extraction problems that never showed up with Lebel cartridges. Lebel is rimmed, 06 is rimless.
Another excellent video covering the basics - keep 'em coming and a happy new year!
Hey man, I love your vids. I've learned a lot from them both historically and technically speaking. So well put together!
Ian, this is one of most interesting videos I've seen in a while. Thank you so much. My question is why do you consider the M27 to be a Automatic Rifle and not a Squad Automatic Rifle? The M27 fires a 5.56 NATO round from a STANAG magazine.
Excellent sermon, I'm glad I made it to church this week.
When I was in the Service anything over .50 Cal (12.7mm) was classified as Cannon. I took the cut off to mean the M2 is there just to define the upper limit of what a HMG can be.
I have a paper weight of a deactivated Training 30mm cannon round from a GAU-8, it boggles the mind that that thing can spit out 3900rpm but it definitely is not a machine gun anymore.
Another fantastic video. You are constantly expanding my knowledge. I really appreciate the work you do! How do you define an LAR vs a MG? You call a BAR an LAR but a BREN is a MG, why? I generally think LAR when it's mag feed and an MG when belt is the primary feed. When I joined the Army our SAW was a heavy barrel select fire FAL. We referred to it as an LAR. No QC barrel, barrel heavier than a rifle but lighter than a 1919. Barrel weight or QC. As I said great job again. You & Karl do a great job on InRange too! I always check one channel than the other.
Is that a Suomi KP i see in the background? Suomi mainittu, torilla tavataan.
Bren: People labeled me as a machine gun but I self identify as a sniper rifle
Thank you very much for putting the laconic text version in the description!
I've found your channel few days ago and I love it! Extensive information, well presented and perfectly explained. Thank to your work I get to know interesting weapon which no one talks about. You have here a new subscriber.
Nos vemos
YOU FORGOT SUB-MACHINE GUNS.
I mean, they fulfill a completely different role then the weapons you described, and use a completely different cartridge, but dammit it's got machine gun in the name and no doubt there's a confused COD kiddy out there who needs the record set straight.
That is the next video along these lines, which will look at SMGs, PDWs, and machine pistols.
Oh, cool, I'm looking forward to it. Also, have a happy new year Ian!
GMG's also
What are submachineguns like in CoD?
Will there be any video on the type of rifles or sniper rifles ? Like a marksman rifle sniper rifle anti material rifle blah blah blah and the different types of assault rifles
Perhaps a better term for that Israel .50 would be a modern medium machine gun since it’s in between a modern light and heavy machine gun like the 1930’s-40’s ones were in between light and heavy machine guns of their day
I would love to see another one of these videos focusing on the assault rifle/battle rifle spectrum of weapons
I really enjoyed this video; it'd be cool to see more content like this every now and then. Keep up the great work!
What would you say would be the fundamental differences between a machine rifle and an assault rifle? Seems like they are essentially the same but the rifles are older and thus heavier
I would say it's a matter of relative firepower. The automatic rifle/machine rifle is intended to provide more fire than the service rifle it is being used with. Hence, BAR/Springfield and Chauchat/Lebel, and M27/M4.
an assault rifle takes an intermediate round and has a selection of firing modes one of which being full auto. this would be a step up from the smgs like the Thompson or the ppsh, that fired a pistol round with lower accuracy.
Isn't the difference open bolt on the mg vs closed in the ar?
no, that would be a technical diffrences based on nessisary operations, i think that the main diffrences would come in with the cartridge, an automatic rifle being a full rifle cartage where the assault rifle uses an intermediate cartridge.
Great video! Super informative, but what exactly is a sub machine gun (SMG)?
Fully automatic firearm firing pistol calibre
General Criteria: Mag fed, Fully automatic, with a Stock (folding or fixed) and fires a pistol calibre.
I was aware of what these terms meant before I watched the video, but I'm hooked on your vids. You rock!
Excellent video! The automatic rifle and the light machine guns were always a blurry distinction, and this video clarified it. Also, the M1919A6 struck me as an attempt to make a BAR out of the M1919A4. Your definitions are very useful, but as you pointed out, there are always exceptions to the rules.
I still wonder about USMC's decision to drop the SAW in favour of the IAR. I know the SAW is heavy and not entirely reliable, but it seems to me that "accurate supressive fire" is a bit of an oxymoron. They're trying to use the thing as a DMR as well apparently. A marksman can keep heads down, but it will never be as effective as sustained automatic fire. Otherwise ammunition-strapped armies all over would have adopted the "supressive DMR" concept. In short, I'm not buying what they're selling.
A Ronk basically, the m27 can be repurposed to whatever it need A to be. Loaded with a drum magazine and full auto, it provides accurate suppressive fire. Switch it to semi auto, it can become a dmr in the hands of a marksman. And suppressive fire is just fire that keeps a enemy's head down. It's a lot. Easier to do that when bullet are whizzing over your head constantly, instead of going all over the place. So effective suppressive fire should be, and almost has to be, accurate. They aren't saying the m27 can be used as a dmr and a suppressive weapon at the same time, the u.s military just wants the gun to switch roles when it needs to. AND seeing as the u.s navy and marines have already adopted it, it must be working
I am going with the theory that the Marines wanted a new rifle and didn't want to take the 5+ years it would take to get thru testing plus getting the other branches involved. So they backdoored the M27 as a supplement to the SAW and bam they get a new rifle that has a fun switch.
That's all well and good until your drum mag jams. There's a reason why the Corps is issuing them with 30rd mags. Honestly, if they could issue them with 60s and a bipod, it would be equivalent to an RPK, which is a great SAW platform.
A Ronk the drum mags are working though. They aren't typical drum mags like the ones on the m249, they are more akin to the drum mag you see on rpks, which very rarely jam, and certainly jam a helluva lot less than a belt fed weapon. They aren't going for perfect, they are going for consistent, something the m249 is doing horribly on. He'll, this might just be a transition until they find a better saw weapon, we don't know yet
The SAW only jams like it does because of that stupid mag feed option. A good belt feed system is going to be as reliable as a magazine, if not more so if the belts are maintained properly (if not disintegrating belts). I've never used the M27 drum, but every .556 drum I've had experience with is less reliable than a stick mag. Now, like I said, if they can get the thing working like the RPK does with its 60 round sticks and tack a Harris on, I think it would be a decent SAW. I'm not so sure about the decision to replace the DMR with it though. I can see an advantage if you were to replace the squad marksman's weapon and the SAW gunner's weapon with one though. You could get double supressive fire and double DMR by cross-training both men. Would be a real force multiplier in certain situations.
Damn, trying to carrying around a 45 lbs. weapon must have been just awful. Anything above 20 lbs. is tiring after a few hours but 45 would just be brutal
Just moving it from one side of the shop to the other is annoying mikemorr100.
I can’t imagine marching with it all day.
That makes so much more sense to me now. I knew all the terms but didn't see how they all came together. Thank you
Nice editing in this video, Ian