I like this idea Dave, just try not to be bias towards vehicles you like. What you can also do at the end is give a list of gas equivalent vehicles that people may own in which the car you are reviewing would make a perfect replacement for.
One suggestion Dave. When you use negative values, you're going to create an outlier. Instead I suggest to use 0.5 values within your scale, so, if you want to qualify a subcategory as "bad" you can use 0 (zero), 0.5 and so on and it will give you a more "elastic" scale, e.g., trip planning: 0.5 instead of -4.You're going to have more values to qualify in a scale and it will be easy for comparison when you get more reviews. My two cents.
1. I have had a 2019 E-Niro since it was new. Never had a problem with the twelve volt battery (but I do carry a jump starter). 2. The Tesla Model 3 is not a car to compare it to, maybe a Y, considering useable space. But really it is not a Tesla, and I like that it is a very normal car
My 2 cents: commendable effort at thoroughness and you're easy to spend the time with. Only small gripe is giving ratings on features you haven't put in the time with, like the current version of the Kia Connect app. I get it: in a thorough rating system, you have to come up with a score for everything... so you did. But the bottom line is if you're going to embark on such a thorough system, I personally think you have to either put in the time yourself with each and every feature you rate, or source reliable data from elsewhere.
Even though the Niro and Kona are sister cars, the 2024 Kona is substantially different from 2024 Niro. The refreshed Kona has peak DC fast charging of 83kw, instead of 77kw on the Niro. European Kona’s get up to 100kw with a very flat curve. The Kona does 10-80% in 43min. The Kona has Hyundai/kias new infotainment software like ev9 and Ioniq 5N. It has significant benefits like manual preconditioning, and full OTA updates for all modules of the car.
I got up to 75 kW charging speed on my 2019 Niro EV. I only cranked at that rate for approximately a few minutes. I was the only affordable EV with decent range compared to the Model 3 at the time. Very bland exterior but decent room and storage and few people could tell it was an EV.
I don't understand the score relating to finding chargers and trip planning, as it's in the onboard nav on the Wind. You can trip plan in the Kia connect app as well as the onboard nav. Heated steering wheel is part of the package on the Wind as well (heat pump etc)
Really enjoyed this real world review. I was “playing at home” giving my own score based on your feedback. I admit I was more critical, giving worse scores. But still great!
The Toyota bZ4X has an excellent EPA-estimated range of up to 252 miles, allowing you to go further with confidence while providing smooth acceleration and immediate torque for a dynamic and exhilarating driving experience every time.
The response from the accelerator in HDA1 has a setting for mellow or aggressive (I think on 3 levels). So that getting on from a green light a little slow is fixable in settings.
I have a model y performance, but I still love the Kia Niro EV. Looking at their website for the 2025 model, I really, really like how they sell the vehicle. There’s 2 trims and what you get is what you get. There’s really no options and it makes it easy to purchase with no confusing markups by the stealerships. BMW, Mercedes, Ford, etc are all extremely awful at making a hundred “options” and then skyrocket the price of the vehicle that way. Kia should be commended on this alone in selling the Niro EV.
That's all for the stealership's benefit. You notice that the pure EV makers with no dealers give you very few options because the rest come as standard.
Hey Dave - nice review - I like your scoring system. Here in Ireland Kia has just issued a recall for the EV6 to fix the 12V battery issue - maybe that’s on its way to the US too.
I rented two Niro’s to decide if it was a good business vehicle but didn’t like it for the price. Chevy Equinox, due to its features and low price was most attractive, but dealer claimed all interiors were black which is too hot for Florida. Intending to lease a base model Kia EV6, the sales person elevated me to a GT-line version with 318 mi range, premium audio, Sirius XM which I use, sunroof, HUD, 700V battery, VTL, and many more goodies. Although it cost a bit more, incentives were $17K off msrp. I hate buying from dealers. To get desired price, I had to walk out of dealership and salesperson chase me down to say ok, we will accept your offer. I don’t understand how they make a profit when adding $9/mo for wheel & tire replacement warranty.
Yeah I've honestly been seriously considering this car the furthest trip I really take is only once a year and would only require a single charge in each direction rest of the time I would be purely AC charging since emy work offers free charging a d theirs L2 chargers in the parking garage I park in
Commenting to mention the first screen shows the map with your current location. Clearly not a helpful map, but it took me forever to notice in my 2021 Kona
I think in driveability breaks are more important than regeneration or should at least playing an important role combined with regeneration. Because a car with strong acceleration need very good breaks. Otherwise it´s driveability becomes dangerous. But in general i like your clear rating.
Have you considered adding curb weight and tire wear into your scoring? Something i find as a benefit for the Niro EV is that its one of the lighter weight evs (under 4000 lbs curb weight) out there.
I believe that the battery problem is with the Kia e-Niro and not the Kia Niro EV. I bought a Kia e-Niro in 2019 and used it as a taxi. I had to replace 2 new 12 Volt batteries during my 2,5 years and 115 000 km. All for free. In 2023 I bought a new Kia Niro EV nearly top spec. After 1,5 years and 80 000 km I have had no problem with the 12 Volt battery. My first electric car without any issues except driver seat belt retractor. I had an Ioniq 5 in between my Niro’s which was a good car in many ways but also irritating in other ways. Especially that punters (customers) do not understand how to open the doors. An irritating problem on many new cars. Mach-e! The Kia e-Niro is still very popular as a taxi in Norway. The Kia e-Niro was the second most sold electric car in the UK in 2021 after TM3. I charge at home, so the super slow fast charging is not an issue. In summer I can drive 500 km (310 miles) in the city. I can drive 4,6 miles per kW. With the Opel Ampera-e (Chevy Bolt) I was down to 5,5 miles per kW. I liked the Ampera-e but it had several issues - especially software. On my first service with the Ampera-e I complained that I ha no light in the trunk. They had forgotten to install the cable! Dave, I would like to see you sitting in the back seat of the Macan. About getting more viewers. How about getting some advice from people who know the RUclips business? I see to many creators who reach a plateau on RUclips and cannot grow further.
Comments about things you really like about a car or are standout items, such as headroom, quietness, seat comfort, or perhaps as in this case, adjustable regen. List the things which Kia needs to focus on to improve their next version. 12v battery issues - are they real? Would think this has been addressed by now?
Thank you for the review. Did you mention efficiency how many miles per kilowatt hour were you getting? Also, I’m leasing one of these cars and to me the lack of tech and route planning are inexcusable at this point
Excellent review need more in-depth reviews like yours, only criticism is your scoring I think you’ll get in to trouble comparing vehicles if you keep giving 0.5 , keep it simple 0 = Poor, 1 = below average, 2 = average, 3 = above average, 4 = good, 5 = Excellent , Then have a base standard for a category of car ( could be size or price range) so your not comparing a Niro against a Porsche. NB I think Kia is phasing the Niro out in Europe in favour of the EV3. Keep up the good work, look out for the new Skoda Elroq.
Hey Dave, kudos for an insanely well thought out points system. I would just like to humbly suggest a few possible modifications to a couple of your sub-categories. First, when rating NACS support, I wonder if it might be worth taking into account how the integration is handled? This would give you some additional granularity when assigning points and nicely differentiate how smooth each automaker is making the experience for their customers. For instance this would give Ford some additional points for going the extra mile to give their customers plug and charge support while other automakers might get less or more points if they integrate NACS support into their apps depending on how clunky the app experience is or whether or not that NACS support ultimately ends up behind a paywall when the complimentary subscription period ends. Also on that note, the other suggestion I have would be to factor the length of the complimentary subscription period and the cost for the core app functions (i.e. phone key, cabin pre-conditioning, navigation, etc.) when that complimentary subscription ends into the remote app support rating. It’s all well and good to have these features in the app but it means a lot less when you have to pay $20 a month to Kia to keep using them a year or three after you buy the car because they paywall literally everything following the complimentary period; including phone key & cabin pre-conditioning. Anyway, I’m sure you’ll get a million of these posts as everyone has their own peccadillos about what they value in a vehicle but just thought I’d toss in my two cents in case any of these thoughts might have merit. Also, 100% agree on the user interface. As a former EV 6 owner I have often referred to the EV 6 as the Nuke LaLoosh of EVs: million dollar engineering with five cent software. Happy New Year to you and your family!
Good point. These legacy automakers want to rope you in with all these subscriptions when the pure EV makers with no dealers give it to you as standard.
The concept of a rating system is interesting. If you are going to keep refering to Tesla as the baseline, then the Tesla should be one of the 1st to be scored as a baseline and to be sure that the rating system fully punishes Tesla's weaknesses and don't just give them a pass becasue you like Tesla
If you’re willing to pay full price and accept any surcharges, like you do on the Tesla app, all dealers will give you a very fast transaction you know! But I do remember Dave having less stellar experiences with Tesla when trying to go outside the mold and deal with trade-ins, slow delivery processes, low staffed delivery days, etc. Not sure we should be all that clearly against dealers in this scoring system. I’m sure Fort Collins Kia/VW/Porsche would agree with me, as a OOS partner.
Dealers should absolutely be a minus. There are very, very few honest ones out there and the vast majority of them are part of multi-billion or multi-billion dollar autogroups. Whenever you have a middleman who needs to make his cut off you, it's a minus. The Fort Collins ones are only doing that because they're getting a ton of free publicity. At the end of the day, it's the customers who are paying for those multi-million dollar showrooms and their multi-million dollar homes.
But the base Model 3 compares similarly in price; so that’s why I see it as a competitor. But I agree the Leaf and Bolt are in the same category as the Kona/Niro Thx for the feedback
Agree Dave, at 40k, you have to compare to the model 3. When the ev6 is 42k, the niro really doesn’t make sense. At 30k, this is a winner. At 40, there are better options.
With the competition of the 2025 bolt coming out at 30k starting price this vehicle will have very little market they will have to sell them for 25k to get it off the lot
Will these scores be uploaded to an OOS website and be able to be searched via query based on individual category score. So if I want to see all cars with a 20 charging score and also a 20 navigation score but don't care about the other categories and pull up all vehicles with those scores? Also will the rest of the OOS team give scores so vehicles can be averaged out over multiple perspectives?
Niro EV gets the same trip planner as the other Kia/Hyundai EVs actually. The car you tested probably didn’t have software updates installed. Don’t know how this should affect your scoring, you’re the boss!
The Hyundai/Kia EV's are some of the best EV's out there, however, their infotainment systems and route planning are all still very poor. Especially the maps/route planning features. Most owners use other methods over using the built-in ones. So that would not have mattered much.
Just one suggestion in my opinion tire noise shouldn't really be a consideration or at least should be very minor of one considering that it's very highly affected by what tires you choose to put on
I don’t love that you rate creaks & rattles based on experiences with two rental cars. Kyle and you both experienced rentals, which never go to the dealer to get rattles fixed, let’s be real! LOL
I think this review system is a good idea. However, there needs to be some adjustments. A Niro EV isn’t such a ‘small’ car! It has much better cargo capacity numbers than Dave’s own Macan EV, both with the rear seats up or down. It also handily beats the Tesla Model 3 which Dave keeps comparing the Niro EV to. That score should be much higher on the Niro EV than it is here, IMHO. Another example : HDA1 doesn’t have all of the features of the Tesla FSD system, sure. But it’s a standard feature of the base model of the Niro, not a subscription, not an expensive option. How will a Tesla score in this context? If you have to pay extra for the feature, does it earn all the points? In my book, the associated monthly fees make the Tesla system a non-starter, so it would score maybe 1 point for being available (but not standard). Final point : I heard Dave refer many times to his past experiences with a 2019 Kona EV when scoring the 2024 Niro EV. Will Teslas be scored by referencing the 2018 Model 3? It just sounds like this will show bias quickly. I’d suggest evaluating cars on their current merits, not based on 5 year old experiences.
Like your points system but your bias is screaming. Don't like the negative points. Based on your grading. I assume cars with one button to control them all. Should get -12 points.
What The HECK! ( minute # 53 area) Life-changing job interview's and the health and safety of your newborns are at risk with this car ! ie your ready for the hospital and contractions are coming , but your unable to drive to the hospital on your own, when every second counts and the car doors won't open!!! How common is this problem with the 12 Volt battery ''locking up''
Would like to see a side by side comparison to the Kia Seltos. Even though it is ICE it is a great commuting car and road tripper. Gas range is probably about 370 miles and there are plenty of gas stations.
Hi Dave. The problem with the 12 volt battery is not the car but that both Hyundai and KIA put some really crappy 12 volt batteries in the car as standard. And it is actually not easy to find a battery that works well with the car. But it can be done: VARTA C22 actually does the job. I have a Kona 2020LR and have had the same problems with the 12Volt as everyone else, I had the above installed / replaced (under warranty) - and despite the same usage pattern, the car has not failed once in 12 months. Previously there were problems every 3 weeks. I have an OBD II reader installed that is running all the time, and that, with the “wakes up” it caused on the car, was enough to drain the battery. I have received the following answer from Hyundai's technicians at the factory in the Czech Republic: “The car charges the 12 volt battery according to 2 different plans: 1. A schedule where it intelligently charges according to the way you use the car. 2. It charges the car a little at regular intervals” We can quickly agree that this is a bit of a cheat. They should have done it by measuring the current state of the 12V battery, and if it is getting low, then charge it. But they have simply tried to be too smart - whether it is to counter the lousy batteries they put in and avoid it standing and charging the 12V battery all the time, I don't know, but it is to the lowest grade you can find, BUT THERE IS A SOLUTION - and it is a battery as stated. Here is a little about the battery: The VARTA C22 is a starter battery designed for cars and other vehicles. It is specifically built to deliver high current over a short period to start the vehicle's engine. This makes it ideal for traditional cars without advanced electrical systems such as start-stop technology. Specifications for VARTA C22: • Voltage: 12 V • Capacity: Typically around 52 Ah • Cold Cranking Amps (CCA): 470 A (depending on the model) • Type: Conventional lead-acid battery Features: • Starting Function: The battery is optimized to provide powerful current to start the engine. • Not intended for deep cycling or continuous power supply, such as in RVs or boats. If you own a vehicle with a start-stop system or additional power requirements (e.g., electric or hybrid vehicles), you should consider an AGM or EFB battery, which is better suited for such systems. The VARTA C22 is best for standard vehicles without these features. Finally, let me just say that your scoring is personal - you should maybee adress this!.! Giving points for, for example, being able to drive with a trailer is, for example, completely irrelevant to me. I have had a driver's license and a car for 45+ years and have actually NEVER ever needed this in my own cars. That is just one of the points I disagree with you on in the scoring. I have given the car my points, based on my now close to 5 years of experience with Konas, and it ended up getting 12 points more. Maybe not a lot, but still...
Thanks for this amazingly informative post! Doing my best with this new scoring system I am sure there will be some tweaks here and there. But the idea of trying to be consistent each time I review a new car is my goal. Happy New Year and thanks for your time watching and writing/sharing your thoughts
Thanks for taking the time to pass on this info. I was left with a doubt as to whether you were saying the Varta is what Kia uses, or whether it is what you recommend as a replacement. At first I thought the latter, but then reading the description for the Varta (not recommended for continuous power supply eg. your OBD II reader), it sounded to me like this would not be what you would be recommending. Especially when you mentioned electric vehicles should consider an AGM...
Nice review, Dave! Personally I think you scored charging too high, but otherwise it all seems quite fair. For me I'd say 125kw peak is a 0 as it's table stakes these days. Anything less gets a negative score and something like a Taycan would get a 5. So that means a -2 or -3 here (again, just my opinion).
I like this idea Dave, just try not to be bias towards vehicles you like. What you can also do at the end is give a list of gas equivalent vehicles that people may own in which the car you are reviewing would make a perfect replacement for.
Wow absolute twin of my 2023 Niro EV Wind. Even mileage almost the same. Mine is 7700. Love it over the 2022 Bolt EUV Premier I used to have.
Dave, love your rating system. I just leased an EV6 GT line for business use. 3-EVs now in our family and will never own a gas vehicle again.
One suggestion Dave. When you use negative values, you're going to create an outlier. Instead I suggest to use 0.5 values within your scale, so, if you want to qualify a subcategory as "bad" you can use 0 (zero), 0.5 and so on and it will give you a more "elastic" scale, e.g., trip planning: 0.5 instead of -4.You're going to have more values to qualify in a scale and it will be easy for comparison when you get more reviews. My two cents.
Interesting point Thx!
1. I have had a 2019 E-Niro since it was new. Never had a problem with the twelve volt battery (but I do carry a jump starter).
2. The Tesla Model 3 is not a car to compare it to, maybe a Y, considering useable space. But really it is not a Tesla, and I like that it is a very normal car
My 2 cents: commendable effort at thoroughness and you're easy to spend the time with. Only small gripe is giving ratings on features you haven't put in the time with, like the current version of the Kia Connect app. I get it: in a thorough rating system, you have to come up with a score for everything... so you did. But the bottom line is if you're going to embark on such a thorough system, I personally think you have to either put in the time yourself with each and every feature you rate, or source reliable data from elsewhere.
Even though the Niro and Kona are sister cars, the 2024 Kona is substantially different from 2024 Niro. The refreshed Kona has peak DC fast charging of 83kw, instead of 77kw on the Niro. European Kona’s get up to 100kw with a very flat curve. The Kona does 10-80% in 43min.
The Kona has Hyundai/kias new infotainment software like ev9 and Ioniq 5N. It has significant benefits like manual preconditioning, and full OTA updates for all modules of the car.
I got up to 75 kW charging speed on my 2019 Niro EV. I only cranked at that rate for approximately a few minutes. I was the only affordable EV with decent range compared to the Model 3 at the time. Very bland exterior but decent room and storage and few people could tell it was an EV.
I don't understand the score relating to finding chargers and trip planning, as it's in the onboard nav on the Wind. You can trip plan in the Kia connect app as well as the onboard nav.
Heated steering wheel is part of the package on the Wind as well (heat pump etc)
Thanks for the info!
love all your content Dave, keep them coming
Thanks Dave! The 11 kW onboard charger is great. These lease in the 100’s so it sounds like a winner to me !
Really enjoyed this real world review. I was “playing at home” giving my own score based on your feedback. I admit I was more critical, giving worse scores. But still great!
Dave - would like you to do this to your M3. That seems to be the standard, and there are things that you should pick on in a Tesla too.
The Toyota bZ4X has an excellent EPA-estimated range of up to 252 miles, allowing you to go further with confidence while providing smooth acceleration and immediate torque for a dynamic and exhilarating driving experience every time.
The response from the accelerator in HDA1 has a setting for mellow or aggressive (I think on 3 levels). So that getting on from a green light a little slow is fixable in settings.
I have a model y performance, but I still love the Kia Niro EV. Looking at their website for the 2025 model, I really, really like how they sell the vehicle. There’s 2 trims and what you get is what you get. There’s really no options and it makes it easy to purchase with no confusing markups by the stealerships. BMW, Mercedes, Ford, etc are all extremely awful at making a hundred “options” and then skyrocket the price of the vehicle that way. Kia should be commended on this alone in selling the Niro EV.
That's all for the stealership's benefit. You notice that the pure EV makers with no dealers give you very few options because the rest come as standard.
Hey Dave - nice review - I like your scoring system. Here in Ireland Kia has just issued a recall for the EV6 to fix the 12V battery issue - maybe that’s on its way to the US too.
I rented two Niro’s to decide if it was a good business vehicle but didn’t like it for the price. Chevy Equinox, due to its features and low price was most attractive, but dealer claimed all interiors were black which is too hot for Florida.
Intending to lease a base model Kia EV6, the sales person elevated me to a GT-line version with 318 mi range, premium audio, Sirius XM which I use, sunroof, HUD, 700V battery, VTL, and many more goodies. Although it cost a bit more, incentives were $17K off msrp.
I hate buying from dealers. To get desired price, I had to walk out of dealership and salesperson chase me down to say ok, we will accept your offer. I don’t understand how they make a profit when adding $9/mo for wheel & tire replacement warranty.
Seems like a good gateway drug to EVs in the city; especially used for a good price.
Yeah I've honestly been seriously considering this car the furthest trip I really take is only once a year and would only require a single charge in each direction rest of the time I would be purely AC charging since emy work offers free charging a d theirs L2 chargers in the parking garage I park in
Commenting to mention the first screen shows the map with your current location. Clearly not a helpful map, but it took me forever to notice in my 2021 Kona
Thank you for the review. Did you mention efficiency how many miles per kilowatt hour were you getting?
3.7-4.3 mi/kwh
I think in driveability breaks are more important than regeneration or should at least playing an important role combined with regeneration. Because a car with strong acceleration need very good breaks. Otherwise it´s driveability becomes dangerous. But in general i like your clear rating.
Good feedback Thx
"47" is a spot on rating. The Nero is way too expensive for the car you get.
Have you considered adding curb weight and tire wear into your scoring?
Something i find as a benefit for the Niro EV is that its one of the lighter weight evs (under 4000 lbs curb weight) out there.
I believe that the battery problem is with the Kia e-Niro and not the Kia Niro EV. I bought a Kia e-Niro in 2019 and used it as a taxi. I had to replace 2 new 12 Volt batteries during my 2,5 years and 115 000 km. All for free. In 2023 I bought a new Kia Niro EV nearly top spec. After 1,5 years and 80 000 km I have had no problem with the 12 Volt battery. My first electric car without any issues except driver seat belt retractor. I had an Ioniq 5 in between my Niro’s which was a good car in many ways but also irritating in other ways. Especially that punters (customers) do not understand how to open the doors. An irritating problem on many new cars. Mach-e! The Kia e-Niro is still very popular as a taxi in Norway. The Kia e-Niro was the second most sold electric car in the UK in 2021 after TM3. I charge at home, so the super slow fast charging is not an issue. In summer I can drive 500 km (310 miles) in the city. I can drive 4,6 miles per kW. With the Opel Ampera-e (Chevy Bolt) I was down to 5,5 miles per kW. I liked the Ampera-e but it had several issues - especially software. On my first service with the Ampera-e I complained that I ha no light in the trunk. They had forgotten to install the cable!
Dave, I would like to see you sitting in the back seat of the Macan.
About getting more viewers. How about getting some advice from people who know the RUclips business? I see to many creators who reach a plateau on RUclips and cannot grow further.
Value for the money? Utility? Opinion on cheap vs luxurious interior? Otherwise good stuff, Dave!
Comments about things you really like about a car or are standout items, such as headroom, quietness, seat comfort, or perhaps as in this case, adjustable regen. List the things which Kia needs to focus on to improve their next version. 12v battery issues - are they real? Would think this has been addressed by now?
Thank you for the review. Did you mention efficiency how many miles per kilowatt hour were you getting?
Also, I’m leasing one of these cars and to me the lack of tech and route planning are inexcusable at this point
Excellent review need more in-depth reviews like yours, only criticism is your scoring I think you’ll get in to trouble comparing vehicles if you keep giving 0.5 , keep it simple 0 = Poor, 1 = below average, 2 = average, 3 = above average, 4 = good, 5 = Excellent , Then have a base standard for a category of car ( could be size or price range) so your not comparing a Niro against a Porsche. NB I think Kia is phasing the Niro out in Europe in favour of the EV3. Keep up the good work, look out for the new Skoda Elroq.
Hey Dave, kudos for an insanely well thought out points system. I would just like to humbly suggest a few possible modifications to a couple of your sub-categories. First, when rating NACS support, I wonder if it might be worth taking into account how the integration is handled? This would give you some additional granularity when assigning points and nicely differentiate how smooth each automaker is making the experience for their customers. For instance this would give Ford some additional points for going the extra mile to give their customers plug and charge support while other automakers might get less or more points if they integrate NACS support into their apps depending on how clunky the app experience is or whether or not that NACS support ultimately ends up behind a paywall when the complimentary subscription period ends. Also on that note, the other suggestion I have would be to factor the length of the complimentary subscription period and the cost for the core app functions (i.e. phone key, cabin pre-conditioning, navigation, etc.) when that complimentary subscription ends into the remote app support rating. It’s all well and good to have these features in the app but it means a lot less when you have to pay $20 a month to Kia to keep using them a year or three after you buy the car because they paywall literally everything following the complimentary period; including phone key & cabin pre-conditioning. Anyway, I’m sure you’ll get a million of these posts as everyone has their own peccadillos about what they value in a vehicle but just thought I’d toss in my two cents in case any of these thoughts might have merit. Also, 100% agree on the user interface. As a former EV 6 owner I have often referred to the EV 6 as the Nuke LaLoosh of EVs: million dollar engineering with five cent software. Happy New Year to you and your family!
Good point. These legacy automakers want to rope you in with all these subscriptions when the pure EV makers with no dealers give it to you as standard.
Sounds like a no-brainer for the wave !!! There are a lot of options for 5k. But at 44k for 50k I'll stay with my hyundai Santa Fe hybrid.
The concept of a rating system is interesting. If you are going to keep refering to Tesla as the baseline, then the Tesla should be one of the 1st to be scored as a baseline and to be sure that the rating system fully punishes Tesla's weaknesses and don't just give them a pass becasue you like Tesla
Good point.
@malk6277 Reviewing my Model 3 next
If you’re willing to pay full price and accept any surcharges, like you do on the Tesla app, all dealers will give you a very fast transaction you know! But I do remember Dave having less stellar experiences with Tesla when trying to go outside the mold and deal with trade-ins, slow delivery processes, low staffed delivery days, etc.
Not sure we should be all that clearly against dealers in this scoring system. I’m sure Fort Collins Kia/VW/Porsche would agree with me, as a OOS partner.
Dealers should absolutely be a minus. There are very, very few honest ones out there and the vast majority of them are part of multi-billion or multi-billion dollar autogroups. Whenever you have a middleman who needs to make his cut off you, it's a minus.
The Fort Collins ones are only doing that because they're getting a ton of free publicity. At the end of the day, it's the customers who are paying for those multi-million dollar showrooms and their multi-million dollar homes.
Dave the model 3 is not a competitor. The leaf, bolt are in is class
But the base Model 3 compares similarly in price; so that’s why I see it as a competitor. But I agree the Leaf and Bolt are in the same category as the Kona/Niro Thx for the feedback
Agree Dave, at 40k, you have to compare to the model 3. When the ev6 is 42k, the niro really doesn’t make sense. At 30k, this is a winner. At 40, there are better options.
With the competition of the 2025 bolt coming out at 30k starting price this vehicle will have very little market they will have to sell them for 25k to get it off the lot
And the 2025 Equinox LT is $27,500 after tax credit, before that ends.
Will these scores be uploaded to an OOS website and be able to be searched via query based on individual category score. So if I want to see all cars with a 20 charging score and also a 20 navigation score but don't care about the other categories and pull up all vehicles with those scores? Also will the rest of the OOS team give scores so vehicles can be averaged out over multiple perspectives?
Good ideas Considering what you say and more
Niro EV gets the same trip planner as the other Kia/Hyundai EVs actually. The car you tested probably didn’t have software updates installed. Don’t know how this should affect your scoring, you’re the boss!
Interesting. Very interesting Couldn’t find it
The Hyundai/Kia EV's are some of the best EV's out there, however, their infotainment systems and route planning are all still very poor. Especially the maps/route planning features. Most owners use other methods over using the built-in ones. So that would not have mattered much.
Just one suggestion in my opinion tire noise shouldn't really be a consideration or at least should be very minor of one considering that it's very highly affected by what tires you choose to put on
“…rain like a Banshee…” As an Irish person I don’t think Banshees can rain. 🤣
It's way too warm there for winter.
Spotted OOSDave in CT!
That DC charging score needs to be no more than 1. It's not much better than the Bolt or Leaf.
I heard from Tom's channel state of charge correct me if I'm wrong Dave but I don't think the Kia Niro is getting the free nacs adapter
I understand the same
@outofspecdave1554 Love your Channel and thanks for all the content!
That not just a fail. I give it F-
BMW i7 EV will have a couple more 0 hanging out on the sheet.
AC Charging 11kw. I think this should have been a 5 rating.
80 amp (19.2 kW) would be a 5, 11 kW should be a 4 at most.
Visibility is safety. ADAS is safety.
I don’t love that you rate creaks & rattles based on experiences with two rental cars. Kyle and you both experienced rentals, which never go to the dealer to get rattles fixed, let’s be real! LOL
I think this review system is a good idea. However, there needs to be some adjustments. A Niro EV isn’t such a ‘small’ car! It has much better cargo capacity numbers than Dave’s own Macan EV, both with the rear seats up or down. It also handily beats the Tesla Model 3 which Dave keeps comparing the Niro EV to. That score should be much higher on the Niro EV than it is here, IMHO.
Another example : HDA1 doesn’t have all of the features of the Tesla FSD system, sure. But it’s a standard feature of the base model of the Niro, not a subscription, not an expensive option. How will a Tesla score in this context? If you have to pay extra for the feature, does it earn all the points? In my book, the associated monthly fees make the Tesla system a non-starter, so it would score maybe 1 point for being available (but not standard).
Final point : I heard Dave refer many times to his past experiences with a 2019 Kona EV when scoring the 2024 Niro EV. Will Teslas be scored by referencing the 2018 Model 3? It just sounds like this will show bias quickly. I’d suggest evaluating cars on their current merits, not based on 5 year old experiences.
Did my best and appreciate all your feedback which I will definitely take into consideration going forward. Happy New Year!
Like your points system but your bias is screaming. Don't like the negative points. Based on your grading. I assume cars with one button to control them all. Should get -12 points.
What The HECK! ( minute # 53 area) Life-changing job interview's and the health and safety of your newborns are at risk with this car !
ie your ready for the hospital and contractions are coming , but your unable to drive to the hospital on your own, when every second counts and the car doors won't open!!!
How common is this problem with the 12 Volt battery ''locking up''
Would like to see a side by side comparison to the Kia Seltos. Even though it is ICE it is a great commuting car and road tripper. Gas range is probably about 370 miles and there are plenty of gas stations.
Doug score..
Hi Dave. The problem with the 12 volt battery is not the car but that both Hyundai and KIA put some really crappy 12 volt batteries in the car as standard. And it is actually not easy to find a battery that works well with the car. But it can be done:
VARTA C22 actually does the job.
I have a Kona 2020LR and have had the same problems with the 12Volt as everyone else, I had the above installed / replaced (under warranty) - and despite the same usage pattern, the car has not failed once in 12 months. Previously there were problems every 3 weeks. I have an OBD II reader installed that is running all the time, and that, with the “wakes up” it caused on the car, was enough to drain the battery.
I have received the following answer from Hyundai's technicians at the factory in the Czech Republic: “The car charges the 12 volt battery according to 2 different plans: 1. A schedule where it intelligently charges according to the way you use the car. 2. It charges the car a little at regular intervals”
We can quickly agree that this is a bit of a cheat. They should have done it by measuring the current state of the 12V battery, and if it is getting low, then charge it. But they have simply tried to be too smart - whether it is to counter the lousy batteries they put in and avoid it standing and charging the 12V battery all the time, I don't know, but it is to the lowest grade you can find, BUT THERE IS A SOLUTION - and it is a battery as stated.
Here is a little about the battery:
The VARTA C22 is a starter battery designed for cars and other vehicles. It is specifically built to deliver high current over a short period to start the vehicle's engine. This makes it ideal for traditional cars without advanced electrical systems such as start-stop technology.
Specifications for VARTA C22:
• Voltage: 12 V
• Capacity: Typically around 52 Ah
• Cold Cranking Amps (CCA): 470 A (depending on the model)
• Type: Conventional lead-acid battery
Features:
• Starting Function: The battery is optimized to provide powerful current to start the engine.
• Not intended for deep cycling or continuous power supply, such as in RVs or boats.
If you own a vehicle with a start-stop system or additional power requirements (e.g., electric or hybrid vehicles), you should consider an AGM or EFB battery, which is better suited for such systems. The VARTA C22 is best for standard vehicles without these features.
Finally, let me just say that your scoring is personal - you should maybee adress this!.! Giving points for, for example, being able to drive with a trailer is, for example, completely irrelevant to me. I have had a driver's license and a car for 45+ years and have actually NEVER ever needed this in my own cars. That is just one of the points I disagree with you on in the scoring. I have given the car my points, based on my now close to 5 years of experience with Konas, and it ended up getting 12 points more. Maybe not a lot, but still...
Thanks for this amazingly informative post! Doing my best with this new scoring system I am sure there will be some tweaks here and there. But the idea of trying to be consistent each time I review a new car is my goal. Happy New Year and thanks for your time watching and writing/sharing your thoughts
Thanks for taking the time to pass on this info. I was left with a doubt as to whether you were saying the Varta is what Kia uses, or whether it is what you recommend as a replacement. At first I thought the latter, but then reading the description for the Varta (not recommended for continuous power supply eg. your OBD II reader), it sounded to me like this would not be what you would be recommending. Especially when you mentioned electric vehicles should consider an AGM...
Nice review, Dave! Personally I think you scored charging too high, but otherwise it all seems quite fair. For me I'd say 125kw peak is a 0 as it's table stakes these days. Anything less gets a negative score and something like a Taycan would get a 5. So that means a -2 or -3 here (again, just my opinion).
Good feedback… HNY!
@@outofspecdave1554 happy new year to you as well!
As a Norwegian.i can say this is a dead boring car.Just like the vw id3 204 hp car.Routeplanner sucks in both....
Kia is just a weak point. Overpriced, model 3 is $34k. And much better car in every single imaginable way.
this car is just plain ugly.. the chevy bolt kills it
Sorry man the Niro is way better looking
You can’t buy a new Chevy Bolt so not relevant.
@@johnpoldo8817yes you can if you can find one!