Wendy for me has a perfect balance of technique and emotions. Not only that, but the way she changes her tone to fit the intensity/mood of the song she sings, is just so genius to me. She has great technique but also never fails to deliver the emotions. Her recent cover of "Nam"(Fine) by SunwooJungA on Song Stealers is an example of that
@aintnootherfan omg you replied!😆 and yes same, I couldn't believe how mature her voice sounded too, she literally always manages to surprise me, even when I think I've heard it all from her. I'm really looking forward to her 2nd mini album "Wish You Hell" coming next month🔥
Tbh for me it’s a hit or miss with Chen. Sometimes I’m just in awe at his skill and sound (killing voice, may we bye), and sometimes it doesn’t quite hit the mark (miracles in december, sweet lies). There’s no doubt he’s the best vocalist technique wise in Exo though.
@@nouraouni2819 wut omg I think what u said is completely coming from ur opinion cause in sweet lies he ates and also miracles in December along with baeksoo gotta say that emotions serving should connect to the song meaning and is quite seen also in his facial expressions …
@@Lovelyisimba yes of course it’s only my opinion. When it comes to sweet lies I was thinking of a specific live performance, but of course he probably has others that are better. And in miracles in december, the studio version always grates on my ears if I’m honest. He just sounds way too nasal, although in the killing voice performance it was way better so it might have just been a problem in the early days. My point though is that I don’t always enjoy his voice in songs, mostly because I think some genres fit him better than others.
@@nouraouni2819 He got better over time, check out his RUclips channel if you haven't already. I agree that Chen wasn't the most versatile at debut, he was kind of a high note specialist and I preferred DO and Baekhyun for the softer stuff, but Chen has really become well rounded in the last five or so years.
@@Lovelyisimba I think all the EXO vocalists are pretty emotive whether they have advanced technique or not. Like aside from the main vocal trio, Chanyeol, Kai, Suho & Xiumin, all have very expressive & emotional singing.
I'm so satisfied how Wendy manages to maintain technique and feeling at the same time. Most of the time i watch her singing get drowned by emotion she gives.
the point you made about fans being insecure about their opinions is so real. Like sometimes you just comment on an idol that sung amazingly to compliment them. Suddenly you comrback to your comment and see 50 replies of people fighting about their faves being better😭. This happens in literally every aspect in kpop. I also like that you mentioned the difference between subjective and objective things in the context of kpop. You probably know better than me how many people don't understand this.
It’s definitely facts!! But I think vocal range and techniques blah blah, don’t matter to me, if an idol isn’t hurting my ears then I think it’s good to praise them, fans like to come at each other and tell each other they can’t like a certain idols vocals bc they’re not A+ or S- whatever but in reality nb really cares about that😭 like just listen to the music and quit telling others who they can and can’t.. hate when stans do that🙄
A really good comparison for Lily is actually Sullyoon - in my opinion it's not just about emotion or feeling but Lily chooses a very forward, head voice heavy mix for her stronger belts while Sullyoon goes for a chest-heavy mix and that gives a much richer and fuller "feeling" to the voice even though Lily's choice might usually be much healthier and more reliable especially on the higher notes (this is also why out of the three best vocalists in NMIXX Sullyoon has the most pitching problems). Their joint cover of POV is a perfect example of this especially as a cover where I feel like Lily's tone is quite beautiful there too.
EXO is the epitome of great Vocal technique, great vocal tones and great at delivering feelings and emotions.. and to add to that their great song composition and lyrics.. that’s why they’re the all time greatest for me.
Great thoughts. And including Taeyeon at the end is cherry on top of the cake - she is flawless in both her technique and expressions. That U R ending clip still gives me chills every time I hear it.
Once again I feel the need to talk about Shinee's Jonghyun. He always had a healthy vocal technique and it allowed him to always bring something new to the table each comeback. His style kept evolving and as a result he became one of the most recognizable and emotional vocalists in and outside kpop. Also, Loona's vocalists are some of my favorites and I hope they get the opportunity to improve in their new companies
TAEYEON is the idol that comes to mind when we talk about emotions and incredible vocal technique, She was named as the woman who divorced 7 times for a reason, she is praised by songwriters and they always choose her to give voice to their works of art, Tae has the ability to interpret and convey each feeling according to the song She is really special 🥺❤️✨️
Lily was so cute and surprised when the trainer gave the feedback to take it down a notch from singing full force 10/10 to 8/10. I have seen newer performances where she adjusts volume in certain parts of a song in order to convey emotions that match the lyrics and the mood.
I really don't get this narrative that Lily is all "technique" but no emotion. 💀💀 Watched her lives and you CANNOT tell me singing isn't in her soul. Arguably I'd actually say Lily is one of the only idols that can actually emote a song properly and not just stand and hold a mic like they're held hostage. One best example was when she sung What was I made for? In her lives, and it was one of the most beautful thing I've ever heard. Or when she sung toxic playfully, she's not even thinking it, like she's not scared and is genuinely having fun. Just cause she's skilled doesn't mean she's too robotic. She's the most natural singer at this generation common ya'll😭 No forced twang, no cursive singing, just pure passion in singing.
I think he meant musicality rather than emotion. To adjust things like volume, based on the lyrics and mood of the song. To make some parts quieter and other parts louder to further the emotional impact on the listener, rather than going all out 10/10 all the time. Or to alter her mix in order to alter the mood and feel of the song. Overall, Lily is quite a fun, playful and passionate person and that passionate energy (which is emotion), comes through in her singing. It works great for upbeat, happy songs, or songs that have a lot of belting. She can keep her technique the same, just adjust how she chooses to sing, based on each song. I think what he meant is that while she can still have perfect technique, focusing on musicality might mean she needs to take out the extremely technically difficult and impressive parts for certain songs to deliver a particular feelings. I saw one song where she was adjusting her volume and way of singing to suit the song and the emotion of the song and I was so so proud of her and so happy.
@@areanaangel8964she is capable of it as well, the recent one is her cover of billie eilish skinny,and most notable one her bruno mars cover when i was your man, its just the author hasnt seen all of lily's material,hence the inaccurate assesment of her. And it shows like how he use the clips of her where the song is still in the making and the producer still directed her to how they wanted the song sounds to be. So its invalid example from him.
Honestly when I think of emotions I think of for life sung by kyungsoo (d.o.) of exo mann the delivery . Kyungsoo just melts my soul every time he sings he's so soulful
Lily’s vocals are music to my ears ❤ I love singers who have powerful high range vocals and can also deliver low range vocals like Lily, Sohyang and Ailee. Everyone has a preference to whom they like. I’m not a fan of Rose’s vocals in black pink or Haewon’s vocals in NMIXX but I don’t mind listening to both groups music.
I think vocal emotion can comes with age. Lily this year for me at lee mujin service is already much better than last year in terms of emotion delivery and she is still just in her early 20s. At this rate, the sky is the limit
I think the people that take your videos and words to an extreme viewpoint - that you dislike all idols that don't have great techniques - is just on them. You've said time and again that you have personal biases, like Minnie from G Idle for example, who don't have the best techniques, but their style is beautiful and pleasing to the ear. I think holding idols and singers in general to a higher standard that they should be able to be consistent and healthy in their methods is a good thing - I don't think it's the same as asking for constant perfection from them. They're all human, after all! I think we should be able to find a happy middle ground where asking for idols to be given better vocal training as a standard is acceptable, but it's also not a constant critique or beratement of their sound as they exist currently. And as you said, it's FINE to just enjoy their sound while also knowing they may not be the best technically speaking!
LITERALLY, i dont get what so hard to understand that u can acknowledge that an idol doesn't have the best technique but can still sing and sound good, and it doesnt mean their hating on them, i remember saying that Jisoo didnt have the best techniques in a live performances because she was straining and finished the note really early cuz she couldn't finish without her voice shaking. I still said that she was out of breath and ive seen her do that note better, but people started saying that i dont get it, it's because she couldnt hold her laugh(but ahe was just smirking), or thats just her vibrato, or i dont get it because she's doing such a difficult note and she has to strain...😅😅 i was in shock by what they said and how MANY were trying to find a reason to why she was or wasnt straining.
Also, MOST people have not had musical training, especially kids or teens listening to music. Music can "sound good" and the person can have NO idea if their technique is good of not, so to them, it doesn't matter.
Agree, Karina and Kyunsoo are my favorite voice in their group even if they aren't the nain vocalists. Also Jin, yeah; he has problems with belting and tension and all that, but his tone is so beautiful(I really want him to discover his potential😔)
I definitely agree with the points made in the video but I don't understand why people in the comments are pretending like Lily has zero emotions when singing. I understand not liking her voice (her tone isn't everyone cup of tea) but ignoring how she emotes in her voice is insane to me. Her cover of I AM? POV? My Gosh (live version)? I'd say in NMIXX's studio releases I'd have to agree that there's a disconnect but I don't think the other members do much better lol
Soemtimes her voice doesn’t really suit the note she’s singing to me and would have been better sung by another voice but that doesn’t take away from her being one of the best main vocalist bc when the part suit her she really shines the most when it doesn’t it technically sounds good and correct but seems a bit misplaced. I felt the same way with Yuri’s voice Izone I wasn’t a fan on her belting tbh but now that she’s a soloist I enjoy her voice more bc she doesn’t have to belt all the time
RIGHT!! really don't get this narrative people are making that Lily is all "technique" but no emotion. 💀💀 Watched her lives and you CANNOT tell me singing isn't in her soul. Arguably I'd actually say Lily is one of the only idols that can actually emote a song properly and not just stand and hold a mic like they're held hostage. One best example was when she sung What was I made for? In her lives, and it was one of the most beautful thing I've ever heard. Or when she sung toxic playfully, she's not even thinking it, like she's not scared and is genuinely having fun. Just cause she's skilled doesn't mean she's too robotic. She's the most natural singer at this generation common ya'll😭 No forced twang, no cursive singing, just pure passion in singing.
Having good/great technique is a great influence in delivering an emotional performance though. It makes the song 10x better by adding vibrato, riffs & runs, and vocal control to sing softly or loudly, etc etc.
After hearing Kpop on a daily basis and watching them live on concerts, i really can say that EXO's main vocals have the most balanced with regard to emotions and technique and setting the bar high at that. Chen in EXO is mostly assigned to serve the highest notes possible but he balances this by choosing ballads for his solo albums. That man is a personification of a heavy drama.
Your note about Rose’s cover and your first dance made me teary eyed. You put so much into these videos and your fans are so grateful. Thank you for giving me something else to look forward on Sundays (especially now that football is done 🤣)
I totally agree with this video. I'd add that also one big problem is that kpop vocalists don't have a lot of oportunities to try and find their genre. Most of the time, even, they're cut to sing high notes and bridges of the same style, beause of the color of their group. This ofc makes sense, but the thing is their companies and probably the vocalists only focus in develop that and don't expand their musical skills. I'd be great if they could explore more, have more input or have the chance to have solo songs in their albums.
Agreed. Wendy has spoken about this recently - how her job in Red Velvet is to hit the high notes. But now she wants to find her own style of singing. This is why I'm glad she got to do a musical and appear on Song Stealers where her cover of Fine was excellent.
What a really interesting topic that doesn’t get touched on much in vocal discussion. I agree 100% that people should enjoy whatever voices they want, any idol vocalist can be your favourite. I did love you identifying one of the core issue’s with the K-pop community - people’s inability to be content with enjoying a weaker vocalist and acknowledging the realities of that idol’s technique at the same time. Stan’s have this deep need for their favourite’s to be acknowledged as being skilled, it’s never enough to just enjoy the idol. Too many times I’ve seen people bend round backwards trying to insist so and so Sub-Vocalist is ACTUALLY just as skilled as the Main Vocalist etc. Just because an idol is your favourite doesn’t mean they have to also be the most skilled. Which is FINE. It’s the reason why positions exist in the first place. Like who you wanna like, just don’t exaggerate the realities of their abilities.
Exactly. The competitive aspect of kpop fandoms is a shot in the foot sometimes. Like sure my fave can't belt and modulate 5 keys while doing a handstand but it still isn't going to change the fact that listening to them sing carries me through bad days AND I'm also not going to lie that your fave isn't impressive. Life would be simpler if people didn't feel the need to lie and defend their preferences
@@monsterdonutkid Minzy surprisingly had a good vocal technique for a main dancer. Bom would've been the best if not for her unhealthy technique that causes her voice to regress so much.
that point you made about the fans' insecurity resonates with me so much. my fav group is one that you criticize quite frequently but i have no problem hearing it because i already know my love for them is due to my own preferences and the connection between me and them, not approval from a third party. but more than that i also found it a bit refreshing because, well... a lot of people in the fandom will exaggerate their skills in order to praise them, claim they are the best, etc. and i'm starting to get fed up with it. i'm here to appreciate their work because i like it. if i only became their fan because they are undeniably "best" and i had no choice i don't really see how that's meaningful tbh.
Ok, but we can talk about how much the editing of the video EATS?! Now for me, i like to have a little of both, a balance between technique and emotions. Even tho a Lot of my favorite Kpop Vocalists are not really that good vocalists, the way their voices move me, i'll always appreacite like Mina, Choa, Yoohyeon, Sua, Jisoo, CL, etc Now for Last: "And that's plan" I'm sorry but when i heard i gagged myself. GUYS WE HAVE A WEDDING AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH 😭💜💙🩷 CONGRATS POHKU I'M SORRY THAT I'M BUTCHERING YOUR NAME BUT I'M SO HAPPY THAT YOU FOUND YOUR SOULMATE
People should understand liking idols is subjective and people can have opinions. I am a blink and i love rose but that doesn't mean i am saying that rose is better than other idols. I have seen many people who comment like xyz i better than ur fav when i comment that abc is my fav. Please stop comparing idols and learn to praise ur favs individually. Please understand.
Fr I never understood why people are so desperate to latch on to superficial titles like 'the best singer', '4th gen it boy' or like the '4th gen leaders' or smth. It's all so petty and I hate this aspect of our community. We need to stop pushing this competitive vibe we have going on because it makes kpop not fun anymore and it makes everyone feel like shit. We all apart of the same family so why can't we act like it ☹️☹️
I'm really glad you made this video. I sometimes question the things I like and look to channels like this to validate my opinions. When other people with more knowledge or experience can explain why something I like is good, I feel good. Other times, my likes are seen as too mainstream and commercial so I feel basic. It's nice to hear sometimes that it's OK to like what you like.
That's the same way I feel about Rosé. I know that there are better and more skilled vocalist in kpop but I will always say that she's my favorite, not only because of her unique tone, but because of the way she makes me feel.
I think lily does have a balance between technique and sensitivity if you watch her cover of iam (Ive) in Lee mujin service The problem is everytime she is recording for nmixx song at jyp they don't let them focus on emotions Not even lia sounds sensitive in itzy's songs
Vocal technique is important if, you know, you want to learn how to use and take care of your instrument (voice), improve it and making sure it lasts through the years. You know, usually what a singer wants 😂
BTW I so appreciate your opinion for being YOURS. So many channels are just exactly what you’re talking about here… either the one side of the K-pop standom spitting out what validates the one side… OR THE channels that just peddle whatever the opposite of the common narrative just to appease the fans who are just anti the popular or mainstream opinion… THANK YOU for just sharing your opinion without trying to validate or capture EITHER sides opinions/viewpoints. It’s so refreshing and actually interesting to listen to! 🤙
You just brilliantly put into words what I’ve been struggling to articulate for years. This applies to so many aspects of the music industry. Ex. There are so many songs I love but I know have basic and underwhelming music production compared to songs that are harder to digest but implement more skillful technique. I’m at least able to acknowledge when I can enjoy a song while knowing it isn’t technically as exceptional as maybe songs I’m not as big of a fan of (and vice versa). I wish more fans were able to do this. An artist can have an enjoyable voice to listen to without having the greatest technique. And an artist can have the greatest voice of all time and not being as universally appealing (just look at Jessie J when she started making music not intended for radio play). Seriously, this video was so well put together and you did an amazing job of explaining your points! I hope that plenty of people are able to watch it and reflect upon whether or not they can accept their own musical tastes and preferences without having to dismiss objectivity. There’s a reason why “bad” vocalists become successful. Technique isn’t the only factor in determining how enjoyable a piece of music is. Keep up the great work!
I will say this again and again that people again need to understand the difference between a vocalist and a singer. A vocalist is able to use their voice as an instrument to help convey the music and show off their instrument through technique (which is why their are vocal rankings because people compare the technique of each member or of groups to see their habits and weaknesses to see who has the best technique and to see how people can improve). A singer is able to use their voice to convey emotions and to connect to an audience (you cannot rank singers because that is subjective and each of our ears like different sounds: it would be like comparing apples to oranges). You don't have to be a good vocalist to be a good singer, which is true, but it does help in making sure you have a healthy instrument. Some of my favorite K-pop singers (who are not good vocalists) are Lee Chaeryoung, Ahn Yujin, Soojin, Jimin, Handong, RM, Jisoo, Joy, Natty, and Yuna. I just love all of their vocal tones. Also, the people who say they don't like Lily's voice just don't like her voice (which is okay, our ears like what they like). She knows how to convey emotions and knows how to connect with people (people just find her to be too much). I mean, people were floored when she covered Psycho by Red Velvet and were so connected by that cover because they liked what they heard and felt connected to her at that moment. So, in conclusion, please know the difference between a singer and a vocalist.
also everyone can become a great singer but not everyones voice suits the same music genre. lily would do amazing with red velvet bsides like body talk, kingdom come, automatic, so good etc i think nmixx doesnt do her voice fully justice
Wendy has improved immensely esp after her musical stint. She didnt just worked on her techniques but also song delivery. I was blown away when she recently covered Fine by Sunwoojunga. I'm absolutely excited to hear what she's prepared for her solo comeback in March!
At first I was kind of unsure about the premise of this video Because I always loved singers with great technique and I think it's important to learn how to sing in an effective and healthy way. But then you mentioned craft vs art. Tbh for me they are intertwined but I got it! I don't sing too much myself but I have been drawing all my life and art is really important to me. Any artist at any level, at any stage in their journey, can produce good art. You don't have to be the most skillful artist to create good art. What good technique affords you is a greater set to tools to do more - to achieve more. Basically, having solid foundations gives an artist freedom. Honing your skills put you in the best position to make art that moves people. But it shouldn't stop with just studying and showing off your technique. It's also an artist's job to connect with their audience. And that's what it is at the end of the day. Resonating with people. Sincerity. There's no single formula for that - that's for the artist to figure out.
i'm so glad you said it! i love good vocal technique, yet somehow many of my biases are sub-vocalists. there's so much more to kpop than just vocals anyway
Pertama kalinya aku dengar lagu korea yang sangat emosional adalah milik kyung Soo yang berjudul Crying Out, aku sangat emosional setiap mendengar lagu itu bahkan sebelum mengetahui artinya dan siapa penyanyinya saat baru mengenal kpop, dan sekarang sedang kecanduan denagn ost lain milik D.O. juga yang berjudul dont worry my deaar yang juga karna suaranya sangat emosional😅
It's not quite like that... I know the good intention that this video wants to convey, but there is no denying that this video gives a vibe of "a way to justify why I like this singer more who has inferior techniques than this other". And that was never the point. You don't need that to qualify a taste. I think the best way to see this as a problematization is the issue of fanwar, but in the end they are just different topics. A singer is a singer and that's it, this will never be a topic to be discussed,that's why this more "technical" means of vocal analysts tries to semantically separate this debate for: singers and vocalists. Being a better vocalist does not imply being a better singer than another, that is why analyzing a singer's technique does not necessarily need to involve analyzing the music that that singer creates or performs, this is another specialized criticism. The point is that, because it seems like a justification, it legitimizes this attempt to "subjectify" the subject and the problem is that this contradicts your main point. 1) "technique has limits". This abstracts the debate, as it does not clarify that "having no technique", therefore, is less limiting. It doesn't make sense because this argument can be *even better* used the other way around, since songs are notes in a certain order to be hit, and the problem of the lack of technique is located precisely in this topic. Therefore the "limit" is precisely human, and as both have the same agents in question - and one of them is an attempt to expand beyond this limit agent (look: expand, not end, as this is impossible) - in the end, it becomes an abstract argument. limits refers to a context. Look at NewJeans, for example, they clearly have a beginner, amateur technique, but the context doesn't necessarily care about that, that's why the songs they perform, they perform excellently, because the chosen songs are correctly correlated the singers’ tessituras. Therefore, for the songs they sing, they are great. Now, no one who claims that they have weak technique denies this fact that I said, because being a singer, an artist, does not interfere with an analysis of vocal technique, because, in the end, that is what it really is: an analysis of vocal technique. 2) And the main justification for this is "feeling, emotion, passion, etc.". It doesn't make sense because the feeling is not something that follows certain rudments, norms or guides to be checked, it is precisely the singer's synesthesia with the music's chord, the feeling that the music conveys, therefore it is the interpretation. That's why your final sentence, about Taeyeon, didn't make sense, because the previously mentioned "technical vocalists" (Chen and Lily) are no less "emotional" than her. It is very easy to take a ballad singer and say that he is more emotional, but this is just a stereotype, this necessarily correlates with gestures that such a singer must submit, such as "pain", "exaggeration", "heavy breathing", etc. - in the end you just fell into an illusion, an affectation, because art does not need to be blatantly stylized to be defined as such. I've honestly never seen this interpretation that the fact that people don't like Lily's voice is "emotion", in fact they are clear: they don't like her timbre, which is in fact different and particularly unique, almost "monotone" (she had a hoarse voice since childhood, only after adulthood did she have a more "adjusted" voice, but she carries several limitations, mainly in terms of range, yes she has the weakest high range of the group, so she has the lowest "potential" of the group, but that's another debate). And the example you used also didn't make sense, because emotion being an interpretation of the singer, it is, therefore, an attempt to adjust that the singer has with the music to his own aesthetics. I could easily use the video of Celine Dion debating with the producer because her voice was "too powerful" for the sound the producer requested and say that this is her lack of "emotion" with the music - no! she was adapting the music to her style -, and *how* the person interprets the feeling that the music conveys is extremely personal. This is also why the singer does not need to be extremely versatile, with a "chameleon" voice, to be a great artist. Therefore, Lily's strange comparison is unfair, her cover of "when i was your man" is one of the best interpretations this song has ever had, none of these "non-technical" singers used as an example reached this performance level that she reached (without "synesthetic exaggerations" or "vocal shows"), and I'm not just talking for the sake of talking, listen and deduce for yourself, reflect on whether, in the end, this cover was so "technical"... it's simply a thesis that there's no way to defend it argumentatively, just falling into the "exempt from debate" trap, saying things like: "it's more complex than that" - but this excuse doesn't generate any ideas, it's just a clever way of avoiding the topic.
Wendy is an absolute example of having both vocal technique and connectedness to a song. She has really strong musicality because she delivers the song as though she embraces the lyrics, melody, and story completely into her inner soul
For me, they who sing with technique perfection are great singer, but them who sing with emotions are beautiful singer and performer. Techniques are necessary to sing parts that can be a struggle and strained if not by the correct stance but if you exclude emotion, it would feel great for one listen but not continuous or even memorable, at least for me. For example, I can always remember Taeyon - I am Fine clip which goes viral for how she really shows emotion in it, and be pleased about it. It's also how Ahyeon Babymon got famous for her Dangerously cover, it's not just about high notes, its really the emotions she delivered.
I think this what makes Minnie the siren of kpop (at least for me), it is not only the vocal technique but also how she performs and communicates emotions. Her strong attitude, hypnotizing eyes, stage charisma, combined with her magical tone makes her singing really enchanting and mesmerizing to listen even when she doesn't have the best technique sometimes. Performance is more than a technique, be it for vocal or dance, and she has that it factor and deep emotion that makes the audience feel like she is singing to them personally (I saw this comment about her many times before, like she is singing to the op only). That connects the singer with audience on an emotional and personal level, which is not easy to achieve. She is also really good at writing songs that she can utilize her voice as part of the story and overall ambience, her songs tend to be very atmospheric, deep, dreamy and emotional. I believe this shows how well she understands that emotional tone of music, that 'sense' in general. Needless to say, I cannot wait for her solo album, I am so excited to see what more she will offer as a songwriter, vocalist, and singer/performer.
I'm at a point where I don't care what people say about the artists I listen to, because I'm happy listening to them and I've cried with their voices and every time I hear a song from them it touches my heart and that's what matters. People who keep fighting over who is better should relax.
YES we still be on this run for roses train! but yes to this whole video, i think because everyone values different things in singers, it's why people feel like they want to have "objective" criteria to rank singers (i.e. technique). it's just unfortunate that on each end of the spectrum fans will be underhanded and criticize others instead of just appreciating what each singer is bringing to the table.
Emotion in singing always reminds me of Miihi (although it's not Kpop but Jpop) even Lee Mujin praised her for delivering emotion of the songs. Her vocal is really soulful.
baekhyun mention LETS GOOOO!! this video is a great critique and i think addresses the main problem in the diverse kpop community. people should unabashedly love and enjoy their fav idols without feeling the need to constantly compare or defend.
I don't normally comment because I'm less interested in technique and more interested in unique vocal tones and artists who focus more on emoting. I do like listening to you videos anyways cause its nice to hear a different perspective. I honestly enjoy btxt because they reach an itchy place in my brain and scratch it so nicely. I dont know what it is but i love that for me. I think though some stans are very defensive when their idols are criticised. Especially when some use what you say to attack from a negative standpoint. Its the curse of making these kinds of content I supose. People will use it how they want.
Same. I love btxt and it's from a more emotional pov. It's even better cause I don't feel the need to win who's better conversations, though some use it to unnecessarily hate on them
If you love the balance between technique and emotion, listen to Young K from DAY6 (you wont regret I SWEAR). Personally I recommend: -his "viva la vida" cover -let it be summer -greatest -not gonna love + he writes all the lyrics so the connection you make is even harder
Reading some comments, why do people insist on differentiating vocalists and singers? I think it's just cringe. Even if they meant to include other voice professionals like voice actors into the broader term of "vocalist", singers ARE vocalists
I was just thinking this lol. I feel like a lot of kpop stans want to feel like their faves are so special that they deserve a different league so they started making up new ways to say the word talented. It reminds me of when everyone started making tiers for idols and their vocals, I literally hated it 😭
IKR. Idk what's this obsession of giving a new definition to "singer". Any person who sings as an occupation is a singer. It has nothing to do with whether they are more technical or emotive or stylistic etc. All vocalists are singers.
@clementine1214 To be fair, people were making distinctions between vocalist and singer long before K-pop fans started using the term. The distinction appears to lie in whether or not the approach to singing is based on vocal technique. Some people might also use something like "stylistic" vs "technical" to show the difference as well. I think that's a better approach because it illustrates that a singer/vocalist has more emphasis on achieving a certain style but may not focus on having a strong vocal techniques to achieve it.
It's about taste You can be a fan of jyp but accept that chen is much better in vocals. I mean some things should be accepted by everyone. Many of famous idols have a lot of lack in live vocals and etc. So fans can praise them for sth else!!! If you stan a singer without a high skill of vocals, you've already accepted that it's not important. So there is no reason to prove your idol is a god (according to strong crush in mind😐😂) And also insult a skilled one because you can't get away that fu**ing bias from yourself... As an exol, I like their everything more than any singer. but I would never say my singers are the best of the world! Also having alot of awards has no connection to being a good vocalist Some fandoms make themselves laughing stocks by that behaviour🤦🏼♀️
the issue with saying technique isn't everything is like ok yeah true but genuinely people who are much weaker vocalists are going to have a much harder time actually emoting through their singing. even if they're doing a good job emoting, weak vocalists just struggle more.
Technique is EVERYTHING however you should also focus on improving your ability to interpret the song well and connect with the audience. Without proper technique you won’t sound that good and will be stuck with having no place to grow.
That’s it. That’s what I’ve been feeling about Rose. I randomly stumbled across her solo songs and been playing non-stop. I now realize it’s because she can connect and tell a story.
This is why nmixx is a balanced group. Lily has the technical aspects of vocals so she does the harder parts but the morr emotive and stylistic parts are given to the rest of the group.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!! I feel like when vocal criticism is on the table people don’t understand that vocal technique is literally just about whether or not your vocal cords are closed, you have quality breath control, etc. It has no bearing whatsoever on your preference for vocal tone/flavor/color or on a singer’s ability to express emotion with their voice. I personally care a lot about technique in the sense that one of the BIGGEST things that truly grinds my gears about the KPOP industry is how it abuses talented young idols. One of these areas that is HIGHLY overlooked is the vocal department even though if an idol ruins their voice beyond repair it could be a career ender for them. However, I will openly admit that what got me into KPOP was (unsurprisingly) BTS who doesn’t necessarily shine in the vocals department. Their rap line though changed my entire life’s view on Hip-Hop (and to a lesser extent R&B) within Korea’s Pop scene. Dreamcatcher followed soon after as I am also a huge metal head and they’ve also brought a lot of joy into my life!
The technique is still essential. Many audition variety shows have come out, and we listen to the difference between trainees and debuted idols, some of those covers were ugly and terrible.
I completely agree with your opinion. I think it's important to distinguish between a vocalist and a singer. When talking specifically about the 4th generation, Lily is undoubtedly the best vocalist, but I don't consider her the best singer, IMHO. For me, the most outstanding singer of the 4th generation is Haewon. The second and third best singers for me would be Sullyoon and Swan.
@@fabian9164 Nope. You can see my biases in my profile picture. Also my handle (jjuaasol) is a combination of my three biases (Jiwoo, Sullyoon and Bae)'s Korean nicknames. Haewoo is not included in it, unfortunately. If you said that Sullyoon is my bias and that I placed her as the second singer, then the answer would be maybe yes 😅
Sorry but totally disagree, it depends on song choice and genre. To me Lily is a standout when she does solo covers of English songs, there's a lot of soul, groove, musicality and emotions in her singing. She's more suited to a solo career than in a girl group where she's pretty much pigeon-holed as the group's belter or singing most of the high notes and where her raspy timbre is pretty much buried. Her covers of Taylor Swift's Lover, All too well, Adele and Bruno Mars songs are some favourites. Even in her part with Ailee and Yuju you can hear her soulful voice.
@@lonil1412 No problem. I respect your opinion. Since a "vocalist" emphasizes the technical aspects of singing, it allows for a more objective evaluation. On the other hand, a "singer" focuses on the emotional expression in the music, making evaluations of singers more subjective and dependent on a listener's taste. In your taste or preference, it might be Lily, while in mine, it could be Haewon or Sullyoon. That's why I wrote about the importance of distinguishing between a vocalist and a singer. Anyhow, your taste is as cool as mine.
Sometimes I don’t think the problem is technique but rather the style that one has to sing in and some adapt better than others. For example, YG singing is more stylistic and limits the skill one is able to showcase or even in JYP where Twice and Itzy sing in a high pitched fashion which can be difficult to sing. Jiyho would be a better singer with less technical issues if she didn’t have to sing that particular way in Twice. Even with autotune used a lot in production, it’s hard for singers to reproduce that stylistic sound without technical problems.
I personally really like Exo's vocalists, I feel that they have the balance between good technique and emotion in their voices, I remember crying so badly the first time I heard 'My answer' even though they were younger and didn't have the same technique as now (it was still good tho) but that presentation made me love them
Imo yes conveying the songs message into a feeling makes it a valuable skill for a singer but for a singer to fully demonstrate that they should be able to use or be good at technique like riffs, runs etc...its why it's true people don't like ballad cause few singers could give justice to it. Also personally I don't equate stylistic vocals to emotions but that's just me ig 😂
I musst say thank you that you make this video essay. It helped me a lot. And i 100% agree. I love skill, but skill is nothing without emotions for me. I am a shawol and a mini melody so hearing someone said: "that are to much emotion" or "emotion aren't importent" is difficult for me.
Wow, what a great video essay. You bring up so many good points here. I agree, many kpop stans do tend to want validation that what they like is the best, but honestly I find it much more freeing to admit, what you love may not be the best of the best, but what you enjoy the most. Once you stop putting idols on unrealistic pedestals of being perfect and are willing to admit objective flaws, and still love what you love despite that, as you said, you win. There should always be respect for vocalists that work on their craft and have a lot to show for that of course as well. For me, my favourite Kpop singer is Seungmin of Stray Kids, his voice has genuinely made me cry once. In a cover of IU's love poem he did with two other singers (two other singers whose technical prowess is much more impressive than his), despite that he was the one whose voice touched me the most (the entire stage was amazing though, all three of them did so well and I highly recommend it!). That on top of him being very passionate about improving the technical aspects of his singing (paying out of his own pocket for vocal lessons for almost 4 years now and actually improving) and being passionate about music in general (his self-written and composed songs “Stars and Raindrops” and “Novel” are great) has made him someone I’m very invested in and want to support.
@@n.137 I was just talking about the performance of his that really touched me. I didn't intend to compare anyone, and I complimented all three of them afterwards. Sorry if you are offended
In terms of personal preferences there are tons of not exceptional vocalist that I really love because of their vocal tone and color. Hanni for example, has an incredibly soft and colorful tone that is incredibly pleasing to hear through the ear, despite the fact that she's not exactly the best gg vocalist. Same goes for Danielle and Hyein whom I really loved their vocal tones as well. I also preferred to hear Woozi and Joshua's vocal tone over Seungkwan or DK's because it sounded much more smooth ti my ears.
I would love to hear you talk about Younghoon and Dongmyeong of Onewe. Younghoon is an amazing vocalist who no one is talking about. Dongmyeong is also a really good vocalist who deserves more attention. Edit: Actually, it occurs to me that K-bands generally don't get talked about enough. It would be nice to see these vocalists get highlighted. Also would like to hear you talk about Xiaojun and Ten of WayV.
Finally someone mention vocalist of Onewe🙌 Don't forget Vromance from the same agency as Onewe too, they all have such a good vocal and can convey the emotion when singing.
I love Lily ao much and her voice makes me so happy..i enjoy singing along with her. But i get the balance of technique and emotion. I guess I've always been on the more critical side of Blackpink though. I've always leaned more towards Lisa but I think that's because of her personality and Aura. And I also just despise YG's ability for promotion. But I have always felt like that company held Rose back and I hope she is able to flourish as a soloist now that her solo endeavors are free of YG.
I prefer technical vocalists and enjoy utilizing techniques that help singers. However, one of my current favorite singers is Dua Lipa. Despite her flaws, I adore her. In Kpop, I love Tzuyu and Sooyoung (SNSD). Even though they are far from technical, I love their voices. Hwasa and Kyunsoo are more stylistic and always give me emotions, as well as Yerin Baek.
I think there is a minimum of quality that anyone who calls themselves a singer should deliver. I don't think it should be normalized singers who can't even sing their own songs live. But certainly whether or not you like a singer has a lot to do with personal taste. I think that in addition to technique and the ability to connect with people, the color of the voice is important.
I think technique its more objetive while "emotion" its something subjetive, bc not everybody connects the same way with every artist, and not every artist can transmit any feeling... Nobody can fight if an idol sings well, but surely can fight about if they really get the feeling theyre trying to give...
100% wholeheartedly agree on Rosé. I started getting into kpop during BP’s debut era late 2016/early 2017 and let me tell you, I literally GASPED the moment I heard her voice for the first time while listening to Whistle and then PWF. She will always be my favorite female vocal in kpop, even though I recognize and don’t deny that there certainly are many other vocalists that have mastered a more reliable technical foundation as a singer and are more fundamentally skilled in the use of proper technique. But Rosé is undoubtedly gifted, and incredibly special as a musician… she encompasses what it is to be desirable and loved as an artist, and she deserves it. Also when you talked about that story of the conversation you had with your partner, that was so cute and I felt excited for you to have that moment at your wedding in the future 🥹 Wishing you the best 🫶🏼
If you haven't already, I'd like to recommend you to listen to Yoohyeon of Dreamcatcher's cover, such as 'secret love song' and 'It's not that it can't work, it's just too late now'. In my subjective taste, she nailed the balance of technique and emotion in her delivery. And it's just _*chef kiss_
And there is vocal color too. I was watching an opera (yeah, you gotta get out sometimes) and there was an older soprano who had flawless technique, but her voice sounded a bit shrill to my ear. Another soprano (younger) wasn't as flawless in her technique, but wow what a great color. I enjoyed her singing so much more. Nayeon > Jihyo Chungha > Tayeon Sure, the people on the right are better technically, but for my ear I just like listening to the people on the left more. Some have both (Wheein, Wendy). :)
@@xshxxos Jihyo is clearly the better singer (and I like her solo album better too), but there is a reason Nayeon gets the majority of the lines, and always has.
My best friend absolutely hate hates ballads except for two exception lovesick by f.t island and btob ballads, she says that even though she thinks ballads are boring their vocals are amazing and that she will never ever get bored of them singing ballads
It’s nice to see an idol singing nicely without visibly suffering and when someone improves after some time (Kai, Taeyong, Taemin), therefore sounds better. AI can generate music, humans can sing and show how their voice changes, their weakness and so much more. A lot of idols could be replaced by AI and nobody would notice
Honestly speaking, technique and style are both equally important. But I don’t think a perfect singer exists as, well, there is no perfection in humans. There will always be room for more improvement in certain areas.
Technique & emotion can co-exist. Stop giving us absolute highnotes, sometimes giving mid belts is the best way to capture listeners or at least have that soul crashing runs & riffs in the song to add more emotion. This may be kpop but dawg, we gotta raise the bar.
This, some people think because some vocalists do lot of high notes they aren’t as emotive as others, I blame the company’s for always trying to stick high notes into everything
This. There really should be more varieties in singing styles in k-pop idols than just belting or the lo-fi type singing. There's a serious lack of riffs & runs, singing in the lower register in kpop.
Technic isnt everything but i hope idols do not ignore the quality of singing
and that don't ignore it for their own health
Absolutely!!😇
@@aintnootherfanYou should change your title to, "Trying to justify why I like this singer with inferior techniques than this other"
@@COWBOYSforlife271 With all due respect, I think you didn’t get the idea of the video.
@@HelenaMestreBeltran What was the idea?? You should read what @eduuuardo18 commented.
Wendy for me has a perfect balance of technique and emotions. Not only that, but the way she changes her tone to fit the intensity/mood of the song she sings, is just so genius to me. She has great technique but also never fails to deliver the emotions. Her recent cover of "Nam"(Fine) by SunwooJungA on Song Stealers is an example of that
got teary eyed the first time i listened to her singing that cover song 🩵
Whenever this woman sings my eyes always bawling 💀 she's truly the best
I feel the same way about D.O. Both of them are just so masterful at changing their style to fit the mood of the song, yet they have GREAT technique.
I totally agree! I am very much curious about Wendy’s vocal journey; I was incredibly impressed by her mature delivery on Song Stealers!
@aintnootherfan omg you replied!😆 and yes same, I couldn't believe how mature her voice sounded too, she literally always manages to surprise me, even when I think I've heard it all from her. I'm really looking forward to her 2nd mini album "Wish You Hell" coming next month🔥
I believe Chen combined Emotions and skills and techniques toghether EXO voclaists are that great
Tbh for me it’s a hit or miss with Chen. Sometimes I’m just in awe at his skill and sound (killing voice, may we bye), and sometimes it doesn’t quite hit the mark (miracles in december, sweet lies). There’s no doubt he’s the best vocalist technique wise in Exo though.
@@nouraouni2819 wut omg I think what u said is completely coming from ur opinion cause in sweet lies he ates and also miracles in December along with baeksoo gotta say that emotions serving should connect to the song meaning and is quite seen also in his facial expressions …
@@Lovelyisimba yes of course it’s only my opinion. When it comes to sweet lies I was thinking of a specific live performance, but of course he probably has others that are better. And in miracles in december, the studio version always grates on my ears if I’m honest. He just sounds way too nasal, although in the killing voice performance it was way better so it might have just been a problem in the early days.
My point though is that I don’t always enjoy his voice in songs, mostly because I think some genres fit him better than others.
@@nouraouni2819 He got better over time, check out his RUclips channel if you haven't already. I agree that Chen wasn't the most versatile at debut, he was kind of a high note specialist and I preferred DO and Baekhyun for the softer stuff, but Chen has really become well rounded in the last five or so years.
@@Lovelyisimba I think all the EXO vocalists are pretty emotive whether they have advanced technique or not. Like aside from the main vocal trio, Chanyeol, Kai, Suho & Xiumin, all have very expressive & emotional singing.
I'm so satisfied how Wendy manages to maintain technique and feeling at the same time. Most of the time i watch her singing get drowned by emotion she gives.
Yooo a Shin chan fan?
@@loreyxilluminawho don't love Shinchan?? 😍I'm adult but I still love shinchan
the point you made about fans being insecure about their opinions is so real. Like sometimes you just comment on an idol that sung amazingly to compliment them. Suddenly you comrback to your comment and see 50 replies of people fighting about their faves being better😭. This happens in literally every aspect in kpop.
I also like that you mentioned the difference between subjective and objective things in the context of kpop. You probably know better than me how many people don't understand this.
Yes people should ignore idols if they don't like them
It’s definitely facts!! But I think vocal range and techniques blah blah, don’t matter to me, if an idol isn’t hurting my ears then I think it’s good to praise them, fans like to come at each other and tell each other they can’t like a certain idols vocals bc they’re not A+ or S- whatever but in reality nb really cares about that😭 like just listen to the music and quit telling others who they can and can’t.. hate when stans do that🙄
True. I usually see so many comments asking some youtubers what is their favorite idols vocal tier.
@@BabyDanny_ But it still can hurt your ears accidentally clicking on a live encore and be repulsed by the singing. Even if it's a top act like BTS.
@@junglecat_rant True, so the smart thing to do would be to click out of it🌚
Taeyeon and Kyungsoo are GREAT exemple that good technique does not need to be sacrifice in order to deliver emotion
A really good comparison for Lily is actually Sullyoon - in my opinion it's not just about emotion or feeling but Lily chooses a very forward, head voice heavy mix for her stronger belts while Sullyoon goes for a chest-heavy mix and that gives a much richer and fuller "feeling" to the voice even though Lily's choice might usually be much healthier and more reliable especially on the higher notes (this is also why out of the three best vocalists in NMIXX Sullyoon has the most pitching problems). Their joint cover of POV is a perfect example of this especially as a cover where I feel like Lily's tone is quite beautiful there too.
Bae might not be the best vocalist but her voice has a lot of emotions in it too
@@hallooos7585 I love Bae's voice so much. I notice Knetz have started calling her "tone fairy," and I think it suits her! 🥰
@goldyd144 that's so cute wtf 😭😭
Agree to this. But I have a feeling that it is JYP that made Lily sing like this, it's intentional.
@@wowJhil Ohh just like how JYP forced Momo to sing a tone that eventually destroyed her voice?
EXO is the epitome of great Vocal technique, great vocal tones and great at delivering feelings and emotions.. and to add to that their great song composition and lyrics.. that’s why they’re the all time greatest for me.
Hell yes so true fr
There is no lie
Ikr.. EXO have the perfect balance. They are perfection indeed.❣️
I feel that's what make EXO's vocalists so good
Yeah they know to give an emotional delivery while not compromising technique. ❤
Great thoughts. And including Taeyeon at the end is cherry on top of the cake - she is flawless in both her technique and expressions. That U R ending clip still gives me chills every time I hear it.
It’s one for the history books!!😁
King Taeyeon👑❤️🫰🏻
Technique and emotion/connection combined
Once again I feel the need to talk about Shinee's Jonghyun. He always had a healthy vocal technique and it allowed him to always bring something new to the table each comeback. His style kept evolving and as a result he became one of the most recognizable and emotional vocalists in and outside kpop.
Also, Loona's vocalists are some of my favorites and I hope they get the opportunity to improve in their new companies
Lily is definitely getting better at her emotional delivery nowadays
TAEYEON is the idol that comes to mind when we talk about emotions and incredible vocal technique, She was named as the woman who divorced 7 times for a reason, she is praised by songwriters and they always choose her to give voice to their works of art, Tae has the ability to interpret and convey each feeling according to the song
She is really special 🥺❤️✨️
Lily was so cute and surprised when the trainer gave the feedback to take it down a notch from singing full force 10/10 to 8/10. I have seen newer performances where she adjusts volume in certain parts of a song in order to convey emotions that match the lyrics and the mood.
Omg I love lily vocals so much🥹
CHEN IS MY FAVORITE VOCALIST IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY HE IS MY EMOTIONAL SUPPORT BOY
He is advanced techniques and his voice is full of emotions too. He is an ideal case ofcourse. 🌠
I really don't get this narrative that Lily is all "technique" but no emotion. 💀💀 Watched her lives and you CANNOT tell me singing isn't in her soul. Arguably I'd actually say Lily is one of the only idols that can actually emote a song properly and not just stand and hold a mic like they're held hostage. One best example was when she sung What was I made for? In her lives, and it was one of the most beautful thing I've ever heard. Or when she sung toxic playfully, she's not even thinking it, like she's not scared and is genuinely having fun. Just cause she's skilled doesn't mean she's too robotic. She's the most natural singer at this generation common ya'll😭 No forced twang, no cursive singing, just pure passion in singing.
I think he meant musicality rather than emotion. To adjust things like volume, based on the lyrics and mood of the song. To make some parts quieter and other parts louder to further the emotional impact on the listener, rather than going all out 10/10 all the time. Or to alter her mix in order to alter the mood and feel of the song.
Overall, Lily is quite a fun, playful and passionate person and that passionate energy (which is emotion), comes through in her singing. It works great for upbeat, happy songs, or songs that have a lot of belting. She can keep her technique the same, just adjust how she chooses to sing, based on each song. I think what he meant is that while she can still have perfect technique, focusing on musicality might mean she needs to take out the extremely technically difficult and impressive parts for certain songs to deliver a particular feelings.
I saw one song where she was adjusting her volume and way of singing to suit the song and the emotion of the song and I was so so proud of her and so happy.
@@areanaangel8964she is capable of it as well, the recent one is her cover of billie eilish skinny,and most notable one her bruno mars cover when i was your man, its just the author hasnt seen all of lily's material,hence the inaccurate assesment of her. And it shows like how he use the clips of her where the song is still in the making and the producer still directed her to how they wanted the song sounds to be. So its invalid example from him.
I think its more because of her vocal tone which is open? And those with emotion singing are actually people grounded vocal tone?
Honestly when I think of emotions I think of for life sung by kyungsoo (d.o.) of exo mann the delivery . Kyungsoo just melts my soul every time he sings he's so soulful
Lily’s vocals are music to my ears ❤ I love singers who have powerful high range vocals and can also deliver low range vocals like Lily, Sohyang and Ailee. Everyone has a preference to whom they like. I’m not a fan of Rose’s vocals in black pink or Haewon’s vocals in NMIXX but I don’t mind listening to both groups music.
I think vocal emotion can comes with age. Lily this year for me at lee mujin service is already much better than last year in terms of emotion delivery and she is still just in her early 20s. At this rate, the sky is the limit
I think the people that take your videos and words to an extreme viewpoint - that you dislike all idols that don't have great techniques - is just on them. You've said time and again that you have personal biases, like Minnie from G Idle for example, who don't have the best techniques, but their style is beautiful and pleasing to the ear. I think holding idols and singers in general to a higher standard that they should be able to be consistent and healthy in their methods is a good thing - I don't think it's the same as asking for constant perfection from them. They're all human, after all! I think we should be able to find a happy middle ground where asking for idols to be given better vocal training as a standard is acceptable, but it's also not a constant critique or beratement of their sound as they exist currently. And as you said, it's FINE to just enjoy their sound while also knowing they may not be the best technically speaking!
LITERALLY, i dont get what so hard to understand that u can acknowledge that an idol doesn't have the best technique but can still sing and sound good, and it doesnt mean their hating on them, i remember saying that Jisoo didnt have the best techniques in a live performances because she was straining and finished the note really early cuz she couldn't finish without her voice shaking. I still said that she was out of breath and ive seen her do that note better, but people started saying that i dont get it, it's because she couldnt hold her laugh(but ahe was just smirking), or thats just her vibrato, or i dont get it because she's doing such a difficult note and she has to strain...😅😅 i was in shock by what they said and how MANY were trying to find a reason to why she was or wasnt straining.
@@maggot2259that’s the problem with K-pop fans they can’t distinguish between valid criticism and concerns with hate 😅
@@markigirl2757 Valid criticism and concerns with idols' vocals? I guess they really don't need your concern.
Also, MOST people have not had musical training, especially kids or teens listening to music. Music can "sound good" and the person can have NO idea if their technique is good of not, so to them, it doesn't matter.
Agree, Karina and Kyunsoo are my favorite voice in their group even if they aren't the nain vocalists.
Also Jin, yeah; he has problems with belting and tension and all that, but his tone is so beautiful(I really want him to discover his potential😔)
Kyungsoo is a main vocalist; I think his voice is so good at delivering the messages behind the songs.
The main problem with Jin is that he sings unnecessarily in higher register which is not his natural tone like jimin, which is sometimes frustrating.
I will never forgive SM for the Kyungsoo main vocalist erasure, I see a painful amount of people who don’t realise he’s a main vocalist
@@RP-dp8loEven a G4 sounds very high for him TT, i really want him to improve, but i don't think that even haopen
Kyungsoo is the main vocalist
I definitely agree with the points made in the video but I don't understand why people in the comments are pretending like Lily has zero emotions when singing. I understand not liking her voice (her tone isn't everyone cup of tea) but ignoring how she emotes in her voice is insane to me. Her cover of I AM? POV? My Gosh (live version)?
I'd say in NMIXX's studio releases I'd have to agree that there's a disconnect but I don't think the other members do much better lol
Soemtimes her voice doesn’t really suit the note she’s singing to me and would have been better sung by another voice but that doesn’t take away from her being one of the best main vocalist bc when the part suit her she really shines the most when it doesn’t it technically sounds good and correct but seems a bit misplaced. I felt the same way with Yuri’s voice Izone I wasn’t a fan on her belting tbh but now that she’s a soloist I enjoy her voice more bc she doesn’t have to belt all the time
@@markigirl2757 yes, subjective thing like that will never take away from the fact that she's a good singer.
RIGHT!! really don't get this narrative people are making that Lily is all "technique" but no emotion. 💀💀 Watched her lives and you CANNOT tell me singing isn't in her soul. Arguably I'd actually say Lily is one of the only idols that can actually emote a song properly and not just stand and hold a mic like they're held hostage. One best example was when she sung What was I made for? In her lives, and it was one of the most beautful thing I've ever heard. Or when she sung toxic playfully, she's not even thinking it, like she's not scared and is genuinely having fun. Just cause she's skilled doesn't mean she's too robotic. She's the most natural singer at this generation common ya'll😭 No forced twang, no cursive singing, just pure passion in singing.
Having good/great technique is a great influence in delivering an emotional performance though. It makes the song 10x better by adding vibrato, riffs & runs, and vocal control to sing softly or loudly, etc etc.
After hearing Kpop on a daily basis and watching them live on concerts, i really can say that EXO's main vocals have the most balanced with regard to emotions and technique and setting the bar high at that. Chen in EXO is mostly assigned to serve the highest notes possible but he balances this by choosing ballads for his solo albums. That man is a personification of a heavy drama.
Yep EXO>>>
Your note about Rose’s cover and your first dance made me teary eyed. You put so much into these videos and your fans are so grateful. Thank you for giving me something else to look forward on Sundays (especially now that football is done 🤣)
Ngl, I lowkey wanna see the dance lol
Thank you for these kind words!😘
I totally agree with this video. I'd add that also one big problem is that kpop vocalists don't have a lot of oportunities to try and find their genre. Most of the time, even, they're cut to sing high notes and bridges of the same style, beause of the color of their group. This ofc makes sense, but the thing is their companies and probably the vocalists only focus in develop that and don't expand their musical skills. I'd be great if they could explore more, have more input or have the chance to have solo songs in their albums.
Agreed. Wendy has spoken about this recently - how her job in Red Velvet is to hit the high notes. But now she wants to find her own style of singing. This is why I'm glad she got to do a musical and appear on Song Stealers where her cover of Fine was excellent.
What a really interesting topic that doesn’t get touched on much in vocal discussion. I agree 100% that people should enjoy whatever voices they want, any idol vocalist can be your favourite.
I did love you identifying one of the core issue’s with the K-pop community - people’s inability to be content with enjoying a weaker vocalist and acknowledging the realities of that idol’s technique at the same time.
Stan’s have this deep need for their favourite’s to be acknowledged as being skilled, it’s never enough to just enjoy the idol. Too many times I’ve seen people bend round backwards trying to insist so and so Sub-Vocalist is ACTUALLY just as skilled as the Main Vocalist etc.
Just because an idol is your favourite doesn’t mean they have to also be the most skilled. Which is FINE. It’s the reason why positions exist in the first place. Like who you wanna like, just don’t exaggerate the realities of their abilities.
Exactly. The competitive aspect of kpop fandoms is a shot in the foot sometimes. Like sure my fave can't belt and modulate 5 keys while doing a handstand but it still isn't going to change the fact that listening to them sing carries me through bad days AND I'm also not going to lie that your fave isn't impressive. Life would be simpler if people didn't feel the need to lie and defend their preferences
I would love to see a vocal essay dedicated to 2ne1 or specifically about 2th Gen vocalist.
2NE1 does not have the best vocal techniques but my God do their songs (and especially their live performances) exude and elicit so much emotion.
@@monsterdonutkid Minzy surprisingly had a good vocal technique for a main dancer. Bom would've been the best if not for her unhealthy technique that causes her voice to regress so much.
that point you made about the fans' insecurity resonates with me so much. my fav group is one that you criticize quite frequently but i have no problem hearing it because i already know my love for them is due to my own preferences and the connection between me and them, not approval from a third party. but more than that i also found it a bit refreshing because, well... a lot of people in the fandom will exaggerate their skills in order to praise them, claim they are the best, etc. and i'm starting to get fed up with it. i'm here to appreciate their work because i like it. if i only became their fan because they are undeniably "best" and i had no choice i don't really see how that's meaningful tbh.
Ok, but we can talk about how much the editing of the video EATS?!
Now for me, i like to have a little of both, a balance between technique and emotions. Even tho a Lot of my favorite Kpop Vocalists are not really that good vocalists, the way their voices move me, i'll always appreacite like Mina, Choa, Yoohyeon, Sua, Jisoo, CL, etc
Now for Last: "And that's plan" I'm sorry but when i heard i gagged myself. GUYS WE HAVE A WEDDING AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH 😭💜💙🩷 CONGRATS POHKU I'M SORRY THAT I'M BUTCHERING YOUR NAME BUT I'M SO HAPPY THAT YOU FOUND YOUR SOULMATE
Thank you! So much!!😘
I was thinking the same thing lol
People should understand liking idols is subjective and people can have opinions.
I am a blink and i love rose but that doesn't mean i am saying that rose is better than other idols.
I have seen many people who comment like xyz i better than ur fav when i comment that abc is my fav. Please stop comparing idols and learn to praise ur favs individually. Please understand.
THIS!! Like i just want to appreciate my favs without having other fandoms jumping in to prove how someone else is better
Fr I never understood why people are so desperate to latch on to superficial titles like 'the best singer', '4th gen it boy' or like the '4th gen leaders' or smth. It's all so petty and I hate this aspect of our community. We need to stop pushing this competitive vibe we have going on because it makes kpop not fun anymore and it makes everyone feel like shit. We all apart of the same family so why can't we act like it ☹️☹️
There’s a difference between liking vocalists that aren’t very advanced ( vocally ) and calling them the most skillful vocalist!
Good point
Exactly, you can say you prefer to listen to a singer however saying they better than a more skillful vocalist is what I have problem with
I'm really glad you made this video. I sometimes question the things I like and look to channels like this to validate my opinions. When other people with more knowledge or experience can explain why something I like is good, I feel good. Other times, my likes are seen as too mainstream and commercial so I feel basic. It's nice to hear sometimes that it's OK to like what you like.
That's the same way I feel about Rosé. I know that there are better and more skilled vocalist in kpop but I will always say that she's my favorite, not only because of her unique tone, but because of the way she makes me feel.
I think lily does have a balance between technique and sensitivity if you watch her cover of iam (Ive) in Lee mujin service
The problem is everytime she is recording for nmixx song at jyp they don't let them focus on emotions
Not even lia sounds sensitive in itzy's songs
Vocal technique is important if, you know, you want to learn how to use and take care of your instrument (voice), improve it and making sure it lasts through the years. You know, usually what a singer wants 😂
This is an interesting post in light of Mnet's show Build Up. I'd be interested in your evaluation of the art and craft of the contestants.
Taeyeon will always be THAT one singer for me, the perfect mix of great technique, emotional connection and performance, one of a kind!
BTW I so appreciate your opinion for being YOURS. So many channels are just exactly what you’re talking about here… either the one side of the K-pop standom spitting out what validates the one side… OR THE channels that just peddle whatever the opposite of the common narrative just to appease the fans who are just anti the popular or mainstream opinion… THANK YOU for just sharing your opinion without trying to validate or capture EITHER sides opinions/viewpoints.
It’s so refreshing and actually interesting to listen to! 🤙
Thank you for these words!😘
You just brilliantly put into words what I’ve been struggling to articulate for years. This applies to so many aspects of the music industry.
Ex. There are so many songs I love but I know have basic and underwhelming music production compared to songs that are harder to digest but implement more skillful technique. I’m at least able to acknowledge when I can enjoy a song while knowing it isn’t technically as exceptional as maybe songs I’m not as big of a fan of (and vice versa).
I wish more fans were able to do this. An artist can have an enjoyable voice to listen to without having the greatest technique. And an artist can have the greatest voice of all time and not being as universally appealing (just look at Jessie J when she started making music not intended for radio play).
Seriously, this video was so well put together and you did an amazing job of explaining your points! I hope that plenty of people are able to watch it and reflect upon whether or not they can accept their own musical tastes and preferences without having to dismiss objectivity. There’s a reason why “bad” vocalists become successful. Technique isn’t the only factor in determining how enjoyable a piece of music is. Keep up the great work!
I will say this again and again that people again need to understand the difference between a vocalist and a singer. A vocalist is able to use their voice as an instrument to help convey the music and show off their instrument through technique (which is why their are vocal rankings because people compare the technique of each member or of groups to see their habits and weaknesses to see who has the best technique and to see how people can improve). A singer is able to use their voice to convey emotions and to connect to an audience (you cannot rank singers because that is subjective and each of our ears like different sounds: it would be like comparing apples to oranges).
You don't have to be a good vocalist to be a good singer, which is true, but it does help in making sure you have a healthy instrument. Some of my favorite K-pop singers (who are not good vocalists) are Lee Chaeryoung, Ahn Yujin, Soojin, Jimin, Handong, RM, Jisoo, Joy, Natty, and Yuna. I just love all of their vocal tones.
Also, the people who say they don't like Lily's voice just don't like her voice (which is okay, our ears like what they like). She knows how to convey emotions and knows how to connect with people (people just find her to be too much). I mean, people were floored when she covered Psycho by Red Velvet and were so connected by that cover because they liked what they heard and felt connected to her at that moment.
So, in conclusion, please know the difference between a singer and a vocalist.
also everyone can become a great singer but not everyones voice suits the same music genre. lily would do amazing with red velvet bsides like body talk, kingdom come, automatic, so good etc i think nmixx doesnt do her voice fully justice
Good point
Thanks!
Omg thank you🥺🥺 you’re too kind!!
The point of singing is feeling. Because if not, what’s the point of singing the words? Even good speeches need to be rousing.
Wendy has improved immensely esp after her musical stint. She didnt just worked on her techniques but also song delivery. I was blown away when she recently covered Fine by Sunwoojunga. I'm absolutely excited to hear what she's prepared for her solo comeback in March!
At first I was kind of unsure about the premise of this video
Because I always loved singers with great technique and I think it's important to learn how to sing in an effective and healthy way.
But then you mentioned craft vs art.
Tbh for me they are intertwined but I got it!
I don't sing too much myself but I have been drawing all my life and art is really important to me.
Any artist at any level, at any stage in their journey, can produce good art.
You don't have to be the most skillful artist to create good art.
What good technique affords you is a greater set to tools to do more - to achieve more.
Basically, having solid foundations gives an artist freedom.
Honing your skills put you in the best position to make art that moves people.
But it shouldn't stop with just studying and showing off your technique. It's also an artist's job to connect with their audience. And that's what it is at the end of the day. Resonating with people. Sincerity. There's no single formula for that - that's for the artist to figure out.
I just wish my faves keep practicing and performing a healthy technique so that they could sing and be vocally fit for as long as possible..
i'm so glad you said it! i love good vocal technique, yet somehow many of my biases are sub-vocalists. there's so much more to kpop than just vocals anyway
Pertama kalinya aku dengar lagu korea yang sangat emosional adalah milik kyung Soo yang berjudul Crying Out, aku sangat emosional setiap mendengar lagu itu bahkan sebelum mengetahui artinya dan siapa penyanyinya saat baru mengenal kpop, dan sekarang sedang kecanduan denagn ost lain milik D.O. juga yang berjudul dont worry my deaar yang juga karna suaranya sangat emosional😅
It's not quite like that... I know the good intention that this video wants to convey, but there is no denying that this video gives a vibe of "a way to justify why I like this singer more who has inferior techniques than this other". And that was never the point. You don't need that to qualify a taste. I think the best way to see this as a problematization is the issue of fanwar, but in the end they are just different topics. A singer is a singer and that's it, this will never be a topic to be discussed,that's why this more "technical" means of vocal analysts tries to semantically separate this debate for: singers and vocalists. Being a better vocalist does not imply being a better singer than another, that is why analyzing a singer's technique does not necessarily need to involve analyzing the music that that singer creates or performs, this is another specialized criticism. The point is that, because it seems like a justification, it legitimizes this attempt to "subjectify" the subject and the problem is that this contradicts your main point.
1) "technique has limits". This abstracts the debate, as it does not clarify that "having no technique", therefore, is less limiting. It doesn't make sense because this argument can be *even better* used the other way around, since songs are notes in a certain order to be hit, and the problem of the lack of technique is located precisely in this topic. Therefore the "limit" is precisely human, and as both have the same agents in question - and one of them is an attempt to expand beyond this limit agent (look: expand, not end, as this is impossible) - in the end, it becomes an abstract argument. limits refers to a context. Look at NewJeans, for example, they clearly have a beginner, amateur technique, but the context doesn't necessarily care about that, that's why the songs they perform, they perform excellently, because the chosen songs are correctly correlated the singers’ tessituras. Therefore, for the songs they sing, they are great. Now, no one who claims that they have weak technique denies this fact that I said, because being a singer, an artist, does not interfere with an analysis of vocal technique, because, in the end, that is what it really is: an analysis of vocal technique.
2) And the main justification for this is "feeling, emotion, passion, etc.". It doesn't make sense because the feeling is not something that follows certain rudments, norms or guides to be checked, it is precisely the singer's synesthesia with the music's chord, the feeling that the music conveys, therefore it is the interpretation. That's why your final sentence, about Taeyeon, didn't make sense, because the previously mentioned "technical vocalists" (Chen and Lily) are no less "emotional" than her. It is very easy to take a ballad singer and say that he is more emotional, but this is just a stereotype, this necessarily correlates with gestures that such a singer must submit, such as "pain", "exaggeration", "heavy breathing", etc. - in the end you just fell into an illusion, an affectation, because art does not need to be blatantly stylized to be defined as such. I've honestly never seen this interpretation that the fact that people don't like Lily's voice is "emotion", in fact they are clear: they don't like her timbre, which is in fact different and particularly unique, almost "monotone" (she had a hoarse voice since childhood, only after adulthood did she have a more "adjusted" voice, but she carries several limitations, mainly in terms of range, yes she has the weakest high range of the group, so she has the lowest "potential" of the group, but that's another debate). And the example you used also didn't make sense, because emotion being an interpretation of the singer, it is, therefore, an attempt to adjust that the singer has with the music to his own aesthetics. I could easily use the video of Celine Dion debating with the producer because her voice was "too powerful" for the sound the producer requested and say that this is her lack of "emotion" with the music - no! she was adapting the music to her style -, and *how* the person interprets the feeling that the music conveys is extremely personal. This is also why the singer does not need to be extremely versatile, with a "chameleon" voice, to be a great artist. Therefore, Lily's strange comparison is unfair, her cover of "when i was your man" is one of the best interpretations this song has ever had, none of these "non-technical" singers used as an example reached this performance level that she reached (without "synesthetic exaggerations" or "vocal shows"), and I'm not just talking for the sake of talking, listen and deduce for yourself, reflect on whether, in the end, this cover was so "technical"... it's simply a thesis that there's no way to defend it argumentatively, just falling into the "exempt from debate" trap, saying things like: "it's more complex than that" - but this excuse doesn't generate any ideas, it's just a clever way of avoiding the topic.
This 🙌🏽💯
Wendy is an absolute example of having both vocal technique and connectedness to a song. She has really strong musicality because she delivers the song as though she embraces the lyrics, melody, and story completely into her inner soul
For me, they who sing with technique perfection are great singer, but them who sing with emotions are beautiful singer and performer. Techniques are necessary to sing parts that can be a struggle and strained if not by the correct stance but if you exclude emotion, it would feel great for one listen but not continuous or even memorable, at least for me. For example, I can always remember Taeyon - I am Fine clip which goes viral for how she really shows emotion in it, and be pleased about it. It's also how Ahyeon Babymon got famous for her Dangerously cover, it's not just about high notes, its really the emotions she delivered.
I think this what makes Minnie the siren of kpop (at least for me), it is not only the vocal technique but also how she performs and communicates emotions. Her strong attitude, hypnotizing eyes, stage charisma, combined with her magical tone makes her singing really enchanting and mesmerizing to listen even when she doesn't have the best technique sometimes. Performance is more than a technique, be it for vocal or dance, and she has that it factor and deep emotion that makes the audience feel like she is singing to them personally (I saw this comment about her many times before, like she is singing to the op only). That connects the singer with audience on an emotional and personal level, which is not easy to achieve. She is also really good at writing songs that she can utilize her voice as part of the story and overall ambience, her songs tend to be very atmospheric, deep, dreamy and emotional. I believe this shows how well she understands that emotional tone of music, that 'sense' in general. Needless to say, I cannot wait for her solo album, I am so excited to see what more she will offer as a songwriter, vocalist, and singer/performer.
I'm at a point where I don't care what people say about the artists I listen to, because I'm happy listening to them and I've cried with their voices and every time I hear a song from them it touches my heart and that's what matters.
People who keep fighting over who is better should relax.
YES we still be on this run for roses train! but yes to this whole video, i think because everyone values different things in singers, it's why people feel like they want to have "objective" criteria to rank singers (i.e. technique). it's just unfortunate that on each end of the spectrum fans will be underhanded and criticize others instead of just appreciating what each singer is bringing to the table.
Emotion in singing always reminds me of Miihi (although it's not Kpop but Jpop) even Lee Mujin praised her for delivering emotion of the songs. Her vocal is really soulful.
baekhyun mention LETS GOOOO!! this video is a great critique and i think addresses the main problem in the diverse kpop community. people should unabashedly love and enjoy their fav idols without feeling the need to constantly compare or defend.
This is exactly what I've been thinking for some time! Awesome to hear someone put it down into words.
I don't normally comment because I'm less interested in technique and more interested in unique vocal tones and artists who focus more on emoting. I do like listening to you videos anyways cause its nice to hear a different perspective.
I honestly enjoy btxt because they reach an itchy place in my brain and scratch it so nicely. I dont know what it is but i love that for me.
I think though some stans are very defensive when their idols are criticised. Especially when some use what you say to attack from a negative standpoint. Its the curse of making these kinds of content I supose. People will use it how they want.
Same. I love btxt and it's from a more emotional pov. It's even better cause I don't feel the need to win who's better conversations, though some use it to unnecessarily hate on them
If you love the balance between technique and emotion, listen to Young K from DAY6 (you wont regret I SWEAR). Personally I recommend:
-his "viva la vida" cover
-let it be summer
-greatest
-not gonna love
+ he writes all the lyrics so the connection you make is even harder
Omg I was going to comment about Young K. He's my absolute fav Vocalist in kpop. He's so amazing.
@@mymumoverwaterstheflowersd8071 thanks for having such an amazing taste bro 😭❤
@MJ-ru4yc you too 😭😭
Lily's vocal is everything 🎉🔥
Juria of XG is really good at conveying emotions, her voice tone is soulful and she has decent vocal technique as well
Reading some comments, why do people insist on differentiating vocalists and singers? I think it's just cringe. Even if they meant to include other voice professionals like voice actors into the broader term of "vocalist", singers ARE vocalists
I was just thinking this lol. I feel like a lot of kpop stans want to feel like their faves are so special that they deserve a different league so they started making up new ways to say the word talented.
It reminds me of when everyone started making tiers for idols and their vocals, I literally hated it 😭
IKR. Idk what's this obsession of giving a new definition to "singer". Any person who sings as an occupation is a singer. It has nothing to do with whether they are more technical or emotive or stylistic etc. All vocalists are singers.
@clementine1214 To be fair, people were making distinctions between vocalist and singer long before K-pop fans started using the term. The distinction appears to lie in whether or not the approach to singing is based on vocal technique. Some people might also use something like "stylistic" vs "technical" to show the difference as well. I think that's a better approach because it illustrates that a singer/vocalist has more emphasis on achieving a certain style but may not focus on having a strong vocal techniques to achieve it.
If you want to analyze only the technical part and ignore all other aspects of singing, then yes it is necessary to make a distinction.
It's about taste
You can be a fan of jyp but accept that chen is much better in vocals.
I mean some things should be accepted by everyone. Many of famous idols have a lot of lack in live vocals and etc. So fans can praise them for sth else!!! If you stan a singer without a high skill of vocals, you've already accepted that it's not important. So there is no reason to prove your idol is a god (according to strong crush in mind😐😂) And also insult a skilled one because you can't get away that fu**ing bias from yourself...
As an exol, I like their everything more than any singer. but I would never say my singers are the best of the world! Also having alot of awards has no connection to being a good vocalist
Some fandoms make themselves laughing stocks by that behaviour🤦🏼♀️
💯
I think the importance of vocal technique is not do hung notes or complex things, but doing it healthy, for they own good
Have you found the roses? I mean it's already a month since u start running for roses😂
the issue with saying technique isn't everything is like ok yeah true but genuinely people who are much weaker vocalists are going to have a much harder time actually emoting through their singing. even if they're doing a good job emoting, weak vocalists just struggle more.
Technique is EVERYTHING however you should also focus on improving your ability to interpret the song well and connect with the audience. Without proper technique you won’t sound that good and will be stuck with having no place to grow.
That’s it. That’s what I’ve been feeling about Rose. I randomly stumbled across her solo songs and been playing non-stop. I now realize it’s because she can connect and tell a story.
And tone sound of her vocals..very unique
This is why nmixx is a balanced group. Lily has the technical aspects of vocals so she does the harder parts but the morr emotive and stylistic parts are given to the rest of the group.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!! I feel like when vocal criticism is on the table people don’t understand that vocal technique is literally just about whether or not your vocal cords are closed, you have quality breath control, etc. It has no bearing whatsoever on your preference for vocal tone/flavor/color or on a singer’s ability to express emotion with their voice.
I personally care a lot about technique in the sense that one of the BIGGEST things that truly grinds my gears about the KPOP industry is how it abuses talented young idols. One of these areas that is HIGHLY overlooked is the vocal department even though if an idol ruins their voice beyond repair it could be a career ender for them.
However, I will openly admit that what got me into KPOP was (unsurprisingly) BTS who doesn’t necessarily shine in the vocals department. Their rap line though changed my entire life’s view on Hip-Hop (and to a lesser extent R&B) within Korea’s Pop scene. Dreamcatcher followed soon after as I am also a huge metal head and they’ve also brought a lot of joy into my life!
The technique is still essential. Many audition variety shows have come out, and we listen to the difference between trainees and debuted idols, some of those covers were ugly and terrible.
I completely agree with your opinion. I think it's important to distinguish between a vocalist and a singer. When talking specifically about the 4th generation, Lily is undoubtedly the best vocalist, but I don't consider her the best singer, IMHO. For me, the most outstanding singer of the 4th generation is Haewon. The second and third best singers for me would be Sullyoon and Swan.
Haewon is your bias that's why you said that.
@@fabian9164 Nope. You can see my biases in my profile picture. Also my handle (jjuaasol) is a combination of my three biases (Jiwoo, Sullyoon and Bae)'s Korean nicknames. Haewoo is not included in it, unfortunately. If you said that Sullyoon is my bias and that I placed her as the second singer, then the answer would be maybe yes 😅
Sorry but totally disagree, it depends on song choice and genre. To me Lily is a standout when she does solo covers of English songs, there's a lot of soul, groove, musicality and emotions in her singing. She's more suited to a solo career than in a girl group where she's pretty much pigeon-holed as the group's belter or singing most of the high notes and where her raspy timbre is pretty much buried. Her covers of Taylor Swift's Lover, All too well, Adele and Bruno Mars songs are some favourites. Even in her part with Ailee and Yuju you can hear her soulful voice.
@@lonil1412 No problem. I respect your opinion. Since a "vocalist" emphasizes the technical aspects of singing, it allows for a more objective evaluation. On the other hand, a "singer" focuses on the emotional expression in the music, making evaluations of singers more subjective and dependent on a listener's taste. In your taste or preference, it might be Lily, while in mine, it could be Haewon or Sullyoon. That's why I wrote about the importance of distinguishing between a vocalist and a singer. Anyhow, your taste is as cool as mine.
@@lonil1412@lonil1412 well the fact Lily doesn't want to be a soloist,she's want debut as a group, it's her choice it's her life.
The most popular idols don't have a great voice.
Sometimes I don’t think the problem is technique but rather the style that one has to sing in and some adapt better than others. For example, YG singing is more stylistic and limits the skill one is able to showcase or even in JYP where Twice and Itzy sing in a high pitched fashion which can be difficult to sing. Jiyho would be a better singer with less technical issues if she didn’t have to sing that particular way in Twice. Even with autotune used a lot in production, it’s hard for singers to reproduce that stylistic sound without technical problems.
I personally really like Exo's vocalists, I feel that they have the balance between good technique and emotion in their voices, I remember crying so badly the first time I heard 'My answer' even though they were younger and didn't have the same technique as now (it was still good tho) but that presentation made me love them
Imo yes conveying the songs message into a feeling makes it a valuable skill for a singer but for a singer to fully demonstrate that they should be able to use or be good at technique like riffs, runs etc...its why it's true people don't like ballad cause few singers could give justice to it. Also personally I don't equate stylistic vocals to emotions but that's just me ig 😂
I musst say thank you that you make this video essay. It helped me a lot. And i 100% agree. I love skill, but skill is nothing without emotions for me. I am a shawol and a mini melody so hearing someone said: "that are to much emotion" or "emotion aren't importent" is difficult for me.
Happy to see another Melody here😊
Wow, what a great video essay. You bring up so many good points here. I agree, many kpop stans do tend to want validation that what they like is the best, but honestly I find it much more freeing to admit, what you love may not be the best of the best, but what you enjoy the most. Once you stop putting idols on unrealistic pedestals of being perfect and are willing to admit objective flaws, and still love what you love despite that, as you said, you win. There should always be respect for vocalists that work on their craft and have a lot to show for that of course as well.
For me, my favourite Kpop singer is Seungmin of Stray Kids, his voice has genuinely made me cry once. In a cover of IU's love poem he did with two other singers (two other singers whose technical prowess is much more impressive than his), despite that he was the one whose voice touched me the most (the entire stage was amazing though, all three of them did so well and I highly recommend it!). That on top of him being very passionate about improving the technical aspects of his singing (paying out of his own pocket for vocal lessons for almost 4 years now and actually improving) and being passionate about music in general (his self-written and composed songs “Stars and Raindrops” and “Novel” are great) has made him someone I’m very invested in and want to support.
Speaking of Loona's vocalists I am still obsessed with Chuu's debut. The way they pick the perfect songs for her vocal tone
You can just use example which Seungmin sang solo if you like his voice a lot. But you choose to compare him to Jongho and Eunkwang?
@@n.137 I was just talking about the performance of his that really touched me. I didn't intend to compare anyone, and I complimented all three of them afterwards. Sorry if you are offended
In terms of personal preferences there are tons of not exceptional vocalist that I really love because of their vocal tone and color. Hanni for example, has an incredibly soft and colorful tone that is incredibly pleasing to hear through the ear, despite the fact that she's not exactly the best gg vocalist. Same goes for Danielle and Hyein whom I really loved their vocal tones as well. I also preferred to hear Woozi and Joshua's vocal tone over Seungkwan or DK's because it sounded much more smooth ti my ears.
I would love to hear you talk about Younghoon and Dongmyeong of Onewe. Younghoon is an amazing vocalist who no one is talking about. Dongmyeong is also a really good vocalist who deserves more attention.
Edit: Actually, it occurs to me that K-bands generally don't get talked about enough. It would be nice to see these vocalists get highlighted.
Also would like to hear you talk about Xiaojun and Ten of WayV.
Finally someone mention vocalist of Onewe🙌
Don't forget Vromance from the same agency as Onewe too, they all have such a good vocal and can convey the emotion when singing.
I love Lily ao much and her voice makes me so happy..i enjoy singing along with her. But i get the balance of technique and emotion. I guess I've always been on the more critical side of Blackpink though. I've always leaned more towards Lisa but I think that's because of her personality and Aura. And I also just despise YG's ability for promotion. But I have always felt like that company held Rose back and I hope she is able to flourish as a soloist now that her solo endeavors are free of YG.
Day 1 waiting for a Kband video essay 🙏🙏
Awesome video as always! Thank you for sharing that about your wedding, that's cute and it put a silly smile on my face :)
I prefer technical vocalists and enjoy utilizing techniques that help singers. However, one of my current favorite singers is Dua Lipa. Despite her flaws, I adore her. In Kpop, I love Tzuyu and Sooyoung (SNSD). Even though they are far from technical, I love their voices. Hwasa and Kyunsoo are more stylistic and always give me emotions, as well as Yerin Baek.
I think there is a minimum of quality that anyone who calls themselves a singer should deliver. I don't think it should be normalized singers who can't even sing their own songs live. But certainly whether or not you like a singer has a lot to do with personal taste. I think that in addition to technique and the ability to connect with people, the color of the voice is important.
Now this is an amazing well put video with the right amount of praise and criticism ❤
I think technique its more objetive while "emotion" its something subjetive, bc not everybody connects the same way with every artist, and not every artist can transmit any feeling...
Nobody can fight if an idol sings well, but surely can fight about if they really get the feeling theyre trying to give...
100% wholeheartedly agree on Rosé. I started getting into kpop during BP’s debut era late 2016/early 2017 and let me tell you, I literally GASPED the moment I heard her voice for the first time while listening to Whistle and then PWF. She will always be my favorite female vocal in kpop, even though I recognize and don’t deny that there certainly are many other vocalists that have mastered a more reliable technical foundation as a singer and are more fundamentally skilled in the use of proper technique. But Rosé is undoubtedly gifted, and incredibly special as a musician… she encompasses what it is to be desirable and loved as an artist, and she deserves it.
Also when you talked about that story of the conversation you had with your partner, that was so cute and I felt excited for you to have that moment at your wedding in the future 🥹
Wishing you the best 🫶🏼
both are important emotion and technique, like BTOB's vocalists have. How would a singer survived to sing live if her/his technique is wrong?
Do you think of i'll be your man?😅😇 I love that song.
@@sayurioffenborn4960 me too😊. I'll be your man is one of the best BTOB songs
If you haven't already, I'd like to recommend you to listen to Yoohyeon of Dreamcatcher's cover, such as 'secret love song' and 'It's not that it can't work, it's just too late now'.
In my subjective taste, she nailed the balance of technique and emotion in her delivery. And it's just _*chef kiss_
And there is vocal color too. I was watching an opera (yeah, you gotta get out sometimes) and there was an older soprano who had flawless technique, but her voice sounded a bit shrill to my ear. Another soprano (younger) wasn't as flawless in her technique, but wow what a great color. I enjoyed her singing so much more.
Nayeon > Jihyo
Chungha > Tayeon
Sure, the people on the right are better technically, but for my ear I just like listening to the people on the left more.
Some have both (Wheein, Wendy). :)
I'm agree with Nayeon >> Jihyo, Jihyo is my bias (I'm not an Once) but lately I can't with her belting 😭 Nayeon has a pleasant voice idk
@@xshxxos Jihyo is clearly the better singer (and I like her solo album better too), but there is a reason Nayeon gets the majority of the lines, and always has.
Woozi > Seungkwan and DK in this regard
@@hefeibao ofc, I know that and I'm stan usually for the main vocalists, but idk maybe is just a phase
@@emanueltheodorus1056 woozi is our boss vocal ofc 🥰🩵
9:08 This is why taeyeon is still at the top of the game. Her voice is mesmerisingly beautiful yet powerful.
My best friend absolutely hate hates ballads except for two exception lovesick by f.t island and btob ballads, she says that even though she thinks ballads are boring their vocals are amazing and that she will never ever get bored of them singing ballads
She likes harmony and all of that?
thanks to your best friend for liking BTOB ballad songs😀.BTOB ballads are really different from common ballad
I don’t like ballads bc they are too slow😅
@@lemonnnkake BTOB ballads are not too slow tho😅
I also don’t typically like ballads, but exo ballads are just chef’s kiss. If you haven’t listened to My Answer and Universe, you definitely should.
It’s nice to see an idol singing nicely without visibly suffering and when someone improves after some time (Kai, Taeyong, Taemin), therefore sounds better.
AI can generate music, humans can sing and show how their voice changes, their weakness and so much more. A lot of idols could be replaced by AI and nobody would notice
There is BTOB when we think about emotion and technique combined..
Honestly speaking, technique and style are both equally important. But I don’t think a perfect singer exists as, well, there is no perfection in humans. There will always be room for more improvement in certain areas.
Technique & emotion can co-exist. Stop giving us absolute highnotes, sometimes giving mid belts is the best way to capture listeners or at least have that soul crashing runs & riffs in the song to add more emotion. This may be kpop but dawg, we gotta raise the bar.
This, some people think because some vocalists do lot of high notes they aren’t as emotive as others, I blame the company’s for always trying to stick high notes into everything
This. There really should be more varieties in singing styles in k-pop idols than just belting or the lo-fi type singing. There's a serious lack of riffs & runs, singing in the lower register in kpop.