I still come back to this video years later. I'm still looking for more of those Amperex. The 2 I found have never left my Freya+. Still make every other tube in this video sound like they are in a closed box full of towels in comparison.
The 6sn7 tube is my favorite amplification devices and I have collected literally hundreds of them. I salute you for rolling these tubes for our listening pleasure. The one critique i have about your method lies in the fact that although these are all the same "type" manufacturing tolerances for tubes can make enough differences in gain or amplification to not produce the same output for the different brands. A problem that is unavoidable considering the limited availability of some of the brands you are testing. So thank you for the video and have a great day rolling tubes. Tubes Rule!
First impressions: AMPEREX 6SN7GTB - Holland? Soviet Union? Who cares! This was the biggest surprise for me during this listening test. In one word, the Amperex quads are POWERFUL. Big, beefy upfront sound that matches perfectly with my 2-channel system, which is geared to take full advantage of the JBL 4343's dynamics and the unrestricted headroom that 2.6 kilowatts of clean power provides. Case in point, check out this sequence between the Electro-Harmonix > Sylvania > Amperex at 06:48. The EHs come on strong when the drums kick in, then everything falls apart when the Sylvanias come in at 06:56. Where did the bass go? Where did the impact go? Hello, Sylvania? But when the Amperex come in at 07:02, power is restored and Page and Plant sound like Led Zeppelin supposed to sound. Every impact from the drum has more weight with the Amperex, it seems. For hard rock, the Amperex quads are my tubes of choice. CBS-HYTRON 5692 - Faultless with both songs. When I bought the duals for the previous test, I knew I had to pick up another pair and test the set as quads...they were clean, controlled, tight with a wide soundstage in the midrange. No hint of edginess in the high frequencies, like the EH and Amperex can sometimes have in loud, dynamic passages in the music. I'm amazed at what 60 year old state of the art tubes can do for a system in 2017. Definitely a great investment. SYLVANIA/PHILIPS ECG - While I wasn't floored by their performance in The Rain Song (they were good, but nothing stood out), the smooth midrange in To Sir with Love reminded me what makes them great. These are polite, refined tubes that you can listen to for hours if you're playing easy listening jazz. They are the polar opposite of the Electro-Harmonix, with their silky, airy highs that can be a bit fatiguing with poorly recorded music. When I want to chill in front of the speakers and not feel burned out after a couple hours of listening, I would reach for either the Sylvanias or the Philips ECG. ELECTRO-HARMONIX - Still the king of highs for me. Surprisingly, the EHs exhibited the highest gain of all quad sets, even though the Amperex seemed to have the most impact. For that extra sparkle in the music, I'll reach for the EHs. But only feed them the highest quality recordings, because those high frequencies can be fatiguing. RELATIVE GAIN - In this test, the recorded audio from all 5 quad tube sets, plus the JFET mode were brought into Adobe Audition and analyzed for loudness. To see what level adjustments would be needed to bring every audio track to -18 LUFS (loudness units k-weighted full scale), the level adjustments shown below would need to be made: AMPEREX: -0.95dB CBS-HYTRON: -0.02dB SYLVANIA: 0.00dB PHILIPS ECG: +0.23dB ELECTRO-HARMONIX: -1.13dB JFET: +1.85dB The EHs had the highest gain, followed by the Amperex. The Philips ECG exhibited the lowest gain of the tubes in my test. Do the Russian-made tubes typically have the highest gain by design? A separate test between the Amperex and my 6H8C Soviet tubes showed they had the exact same gain, to 0.01dB. Coincidence? That's all for now. I'd love to hear your thoughts...comment below!
Hi Sukyung, I've never tried a Northern Electric 6SN7. They look similar to the Sophia Electric 6SN7, which I did a listening test in one of my other videos ruclips.net/video/uCw98gFXBic/видео.html
Nice comparison video. From what I heard through my Schiit Saga with a Western Electric 6SN7, the Electro Harmonix slightly edges out the Amperex. The 5692 and ECG are a close third and fourth, with the Sylvania besting the JFET in last place. With Schiit now going to the Thunderdome on both the Freya and Saga, these results should give some indication as to where the competition will wind up. Thanx again for the excellent video.
Only listening through headphones, I liked the EH's, seems I always like them in other vids too. Maybe it's the headphones I don't know. I've just purchased my 1st tube amp, still waiting delivery so will be interesting doing my own tube rolling. Thanks for your videos, very helpful.
I know that listening to RUclips vids doesn't really do any justice for SQ, but to my ears and HD800s headphones. The CBS 5692 sounded best to me of the bunch.
Any differences in sound are due to variances in capacitance of the cathode, grid, and plate. Those capacitance changes make for EQ changes that are predictable if you fully understand the parameters of the audio path, and particularly the tone circuits, of the amp in question. It is not mojo, it is not magic, it is simply a matter of understanding the interactions between tube parameters and circuit parameters.
So what’s a good way to pick the tubes you’d like without listening to them by understanding these details you’re talking about? Is there a way to chart and grade a tube, or to design new with this info? What do dealers, writers, and RUclipsrs need to change to get this info communicated clearly?
The EH tubes dug deeper on bass, sparkled higher in treble and had a clearer mid-range w/more presence. The EH’s were the clear winners. They’re also cheaper....by far.
I am72 I grew up with tubes love them I repair vintage radios...the truth is this simple the sound changes with speakers types...does tubes mean no tone controls or eq and 0 gain..tube amps are no big deal there just cool.
i kind of like the sylvanias but would love to hear this schiit freya in my system. as i have an ARC SP3a1, i am not so sure i need to buy another pre. still, nice comp. ...hifitommy
I've also had the Focusrite and it's not hifi enough to appreciate the differences between the tubes. I love the jbl 4343 but I recommend a more perfomant dac. I recommend topping d70 for price performance
Thanks for the recommendation. It looks like a great DAC and has balanced outputs, which fits one of my requirements. The one big thing that it's missing (and is present on the Focusrite) has nothing to do with specs and has everything to do with safety and control, and that's the presence of a large volume knob. For me, it's much more intuitive and faster to turn down a knob than it is to click on a button. With a 2600W system and frequency response of the JBL 4343s, you really have to be careful to protect your hearing, and I feel that the Focusrite - with its large volume knob - helps in that regard.
if you want the volume knob there is the d50 but it does not have balanced outputs .. anyway if you want to upgrade your dac take a look at this site where they test the real objective performance of the dac and not auditory sensations.. www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/digital-audio-converters-dacs.10/
Yes! The Amperex are monster tubes that are perfect for the hard rock genre. I like Sylvanias for their laid back smoothness - jazz sounds great with them.
The amperex are kinda like the orange globes in my lyr 2, the reverb in a song simply pops out more. All good, I honestly have not heard a tube in this pre-amp that didn't sound good (spare stock) in some aspect, hell even the solid state is good but thats the equivalent of saying the speakers are good.
I would agree with you in that most (if not all) tubes I've tried sounded very good from a musical standpoint. Where they differ the most is in microphonics and "non-musical" noise that the tubes themselves generate and can be heard when the music signal is low or off. I don't attribute this to a particular brand but rather the individual tube and how well it was constructed. This is why I recommend that people buying tubes should have them tested first.
Have a few questions: songs used here are all copyrighted songs, so will you get Strikes from RUclips or will the whole video get de-monetized? How do you use copyrighted songs in your video without issues mentioned above? Thanks!
@@TycoDogg Cool, thank you very much for the quick reply, and I'd really appreciate your fantastic videos and sharing of knowledge with us. So the bottom line question: you won't get Strikes from song copyright owners and your RUclips/Google account won't get banned for using these copyrighted songs, correct?
@@office2011 I think it depends on the copyright owner and the type of content. In my case they linked to the songs used and flagged the video to not be monetized, with no strike. Others may have a different experience.
Apparently I'm not at this level of audiophiliac yet. I don't really hear a difference. I just bought a DarkVoice and I love it. Any recommendations are welcome.
Hi Daan, in my experience, differences between tubes (or between tubes and solid state) ranges between zero and fairly noticeable. Don't be discouraged. Try listening to some of my other listening tests, especially the Tesla and Tungsram. If you still can't hear a difference, simply sit back and enjoy the music and save your $ for a good set of speakers instead of tube rolling.
Wow! On the first song, solid state was the least favorable, while the electro harmonix was my favorite. In the second song I liked the Amperex most and solid state the least. Awesome videos!
WOW that second track is WIDE OPEN with those Amperex. I prefer the CBS on the first track. How much are those Amperex? Those CBS are damn $1000 !!!!!!!! no way I can afford those, they cost more than the preamp LOL
It is turned up, yes. The idea is to drive the tubes to induce the even-order harmonic distortion that creates that "tube sound" which isn't present when overdriving JFETs
@@TycoDogg Thanks for the insight. The newer version of freya cannot be opened up. Even for a blown fuse may require a return for repair. I believe your version does not have the limitation spotting the screws ontop of the unit. A keeper!
Amperex 6SN7s are basically unicorns at this point. You're better off looking for the Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7s. I'm hoping to pick up a Holland-made set myself and doing an Amperex vs Amperex soon.
@@TycoDogg so whats the deal on those Russian ones that are "built" the same? Is that.....an option? Are they similar in sound? Are they ALSO impossible to find? lol
@@JayGreezy There is controversy around the Amperex 6SN7s because they look identical to Soviet made 6SN7s (which are inexpensive and easy to find), so some people say that Amperex may have never made a 6SN7 in Holland, but rather sourced tubes from the Soviet Union and labeled them as made in Holland. I don't know for sure and don't have an opinion either way...if the tubes sound good regardless of where they are from, I like them.
I don't know why but that sound with more right volume makes my ears ache. in order to hear the differences well, you need a well balanced stereo sound. "Amperex sound better".
After 3 years: Sylvania and Amperex sound similar (sound like for a home hi-fi, and Sylvania makes this better), and Philips, CBS, and Harmonix are also similar (for a pro audio I would say, besides Philips makes this ideally, however CBS and E-H try to be "a little bit for home hi-fi also", but they are not great in this). These are two moods (let's call them Sylvania and Philips), and JFET is absolutely characterless. This is always interesting for me to get back to old listening sessions and confirm or change my impressions.
I still come back to this video years later. I'm still looking for more of those Amperex. The 2 I found have never left my Freya+. Still make every other tube in this video sound like they are in a closed box full of towels in comparison.
The 6sn7 tube is my favorite amplification devices and I have collected literally hundreds of them. I salute you for rolling these tubes for our listening pleasure. The one critique i have about your method lies in the fact that although these are all the same "type" manufacturing tolerances for tubes can make enough differences in gain or amplification to not produce the same output for the different brands. A problem that is unavoidable considering the limited availability of some of the brands you are testing. So thank you for the video and have a great day rolling tubes. Tubes Rule!
I enjoyed the CBS Hytron 5692 the most; it seemed to convey emotion the best. The amperex had a nice 'bigness' to it.
First impressions:
AMPEREX 6SN7GTB - Holland? Soviet Union? Who cares! This was the biggest surprise for me during this listening test. In one word, the Amperex quads are POWERFUL. Big, beefy upfront sound that matches perfectly with my 2-channel system, which is geared to take full advantage of the JBL 4343's dynamics and the unrestricted headroom that 2.6 kilowatts of clean power provides. Case in point, check out this sequence between the Electro-Harmonix > Sylvania > Amperex at 06:48. The EHs come on strong when the drums kick in, then everything falls apart when the Sylvanias come in at 06:56. Where did the bass go? Where did the impact go? Hello, Sylvania? But when the Amperex come in at 07:02, power is restored and Page and Plant sound like Led Zeppelin supposed to sound. Every impact from the drum has more weight with the Amperex, it seems. For hard rock, the Amperex quads are my tubes of choice.
CBS-HYTRON 5692 - Faultless with both songs. When I bought the duals for the previous test, I knew I had to pick up another pair and test the set as quads...they were clean, controlled, tight with a wide soundstage in the midrange. No hint of edginess in the high frequencies, like the EH and Amperex can sometimes have in loud, dynamic passages in the music. I'm amazed at what 60 year old state of the art tubes can do for a system in 2017. Definitely a great investment.
SYLVANIA/PHILIPS ECG - While I wasn't floored by their performance in The Rain Song (they were good, but nothing stood out), the smooth midrange in To Sir with Love reminded me what makes them great. These are polite, refined tubes that you can listen to for hours if you're playing easy listening jazz. They are the polar opposite of the Electro-Harmonix, with their silky, airy highs that can be a bit fatiguing with poorly recorded music. When I want to chill in front of the speakers and not feel burned out after a couple hours of listening, I would reach for either the Sylvanias or the Philips ECG.
ELECTRO-HARMONIX - Still the king of highs for me. Surprisingly, the EHs exhibited the highest gain of all quad sets, even though the Amperex seemed to have the most impact. For that extra sparkle in the music, I'll reach for the EHs. But only feed them the highest quality recordings, because those high frequencies can be fatiguing.
RELATIVE GAIN - In this test, the recorded audio from all 5 quad tube sets, plus the JFET mode were brought into Adobe Audition and analyzed for loudness. To see what level adjustments would be needed to bring every audio track to -18 LUFS (loudness units k-weighted full scale), the level adjustments shown below would need to be made:
AMPEREX: -0.95dB
CBS-HYTRON: -0.02dB
SYLVANIA: 0.00dB
PHILIPS ECG: +0.23dB
ELECTRO-HARMONIX: -1.13dB
JFET: +1.85dB
The EHs had the highest gain, followed by the Amperex. The Philips ECG exhibited the lowest gain of the tubes in my test. Do the Russian-made tubes typically have the highest gain by design? A separate test between the Amperex and my 6H8C Soviet tubes showed they had the exact same gain, to 0.01dB. Coincidence?
That's all for now. I'd love to hear your thoughts...comment below!
What do you think of Northern Electric 6SN7 ?
Hi Sukyung, I've never tried a Northern Electric 6SN7. They look similar to the Sophia Electric 6SN7, which I did a listening test in one of my other videos ruclips.net/video/uCw98gFXBic/видео.html
Tyco Dogg where did you get the amperex?
Wow. I’m a tubenoob and your channel is great for everything but my wallet. Thanks. Fantastic stuff.
Thanks John, we appreciate it! Welcome to tube rolling.
Nice comparison video. From what I heard through my Schiit Saga with a Western Electric 6SN7, the Electro Harmonix slightly edges out the Amperex. The 5692 and ECG are a close third and fourth, with the Sylvania besting the JFET in last place. With Schiit now going to the Thunderdome on both the Freya and Saga, these results should give some indication as to where the competition will wind up. Thanx again for the excellent video.
Only listening through headphones, I liked the EH's, seems I always like them in other vids too. Maybe it's the headphones I don't know. I've just purchased my 1st tube amp, still waiting delivery so will be interesting doing my own tube rolling. Thanks for your videos, very helpful.
EHs are good tubes, very airy
Love your channel!!! Great stuff!!! And you're doing it right as far as comparison too. Best regards
Oh yeah yeah
I like Cbs Hytron with his best rounded and balanced sound. The others sound to me with too much high frecuencies and a little harsh and coarse.
CBS Hytron. EH close second:) Others were thinner sounding, hollow in some areas.
I know that listening to RUclips vids doesn't really do any justice for SQ, but to my ears and HD800s headphones. The CBS 5692 sounded best to me of the bunch.
Any differences in sound are due to variances in capacitance of the cathode, grid, and plate. Those capacitance changes make for EQ changes that are predictable if you fully understand the parameters of the audio path, and particularly the tone circuits, of the amp in question. It is not mojo, it is not magic, it is simply a matter of understanding the interactions between tube parameters and circuit parameters.
So what’s a good way to pick the tubes you’d like without listening to them by understanding these details you’re talking about?
Is there a way to chart and grade a tube, or to design new with this info?
What do dealers, writers, and RUclipsrs need to change to get this info communicated clearly?
Liked the Sylvania and the Ampex best. Seemed to have a little more air.
The EH tubes dug deeper on bass, sparkled higher in treble and had a clearer mid-range w/more presence. The EH’s were the clear winners. They’re also cheaper....by far.
Amperex as someone previously suggested has more sparkle then the Philips for me.
I am72 I grew up with tubes love them I repair vintage radios...the truth is this simple the sound changes with speakers types...does tubes mean no tone controls or eq and 0 gain..tube amps are no big deal there just cool.
All tubes were doing great bit IMHO Amperex stands out of the lot... thx
Amperex is a favorite of mine for rock...very strong and smooth tube sound.
5692 are fantastic----they have depth
i kind of like the sylvanias but would love to hear this schiit freya in my system. as i have an ARC SP3a1, i am not so sure i need to buy another pre. still, nice comp.
...hifitommy
E-H period! Try the Sophias...yes.?
I've also had the Focusrite and it's not hifi enough to appreciate the differences between the tubes. I love the jbl 4343 but I recommend a more perfomant dac. I recommend topping d70 for price performance
Thanks for the recommendation. It looks like a great DAC and has balanced outputs, which fits one of my requirements. The one big thing that it's missing (and is present on the Focusrite) has nothing to do with specs and has everything to do with safety and control, and that's the presence of a large volume knob. For me, it's much more intuitive and faster to turn down a knob than it is to click on a button. With a 2600W system and frequency response of the JBL 4343s, you really have to be careful to protect your hearing, and I feel that the Focusrite - with its large volume knob - helps in that regard.
@@TycoDogg yes the volume knob is the only negative thing
if you want the volume knob there is the d50 but it does not have balanced outputs .. anyway if you want to upgrade your dac take a look at this site where they test the real objective performance of the dac and not auditory sensations.. www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/digital-audio-converters-dacs.10/
Amperex sure gave the track some kick. Liked the Sylvania as well
Yes! The Amperex are monster tubes that are perfect for the hard rock genre. I like Sylvanias for their laid back smoothness - jazz sounds great with them.
Hello friend!I have some old Amperex Bugle Boy tubes and they got thinner 9 pins.Can i use them with Freya or i need 8 pin adapter?Thanks!
Can you read the tube type on the glass? If unsure, I wouldn't risk it personally.
@@TycoDogg ecc88 6dj8-They are preamp tubes.
I see ECC88 to 6SN7 adapters for sale so it looks doable but I don't have a any experience with that tube type. Let me know how it goes if you try it.
Did you ever buy those adapters?
The amperex are kinda like the orange globes in my lyr 2, the reverb in a song simply pops out more. All good, I honestly have not heard a tube in this pre-amp that didn't sound good (spare stock) in some aspect, hell even the solid state is good but thats the equivalent of saying the speakers are good.
I would agree with you in that most (if not all) tubes I've tried sounded very good from a musical standpoint. Where they differ the most is in microphonics and "non-musical" noise that the tubes themselves generate and can be heard when the music signal is low or off. I don't attribute this to a particular brand but rather the individual tube and how well it was constructed. This is why I recommend that people buying tubes should have them tested first.
Have a few questions: songs used here are all copyrighted songs, so will you get Strikes from RUclips or will the whole video get de-monetized? How do you use copyrighted songs in your video without issues mentioned above? Thanks!
@@office2011 my channel is not monetized. I did the videos for fun.
@@TycoDogg Cool, thank you very much for the quick reply, and I'd really appreciate your fantastic videos and sharing of knowledge with us. So the bottom line question: you won't get Strikes from song copyright owners and your RUclips/Google account won't get banned for using these copyrighted songs, correct?
@@office2011 I think it depends on the copyright owner and the type of content. In my case they linked to the songs used and flagged the video to not be monetized, with no strike. Others may have a different experience.
@@TycoDogg I see, it makes sense, thanks again for your honest replies, I much appreciate it!
@@office2011 you're welcome and thanks for watching!
Just listened to first song. Liked best = Amperex. Liked least = CBS Hytron & solid state.
Apparently I'm not at this level of audiophiliac yet. I don't really hear a difference. I just bought a DarkVoice and I love it. Any recommendations are welcome.
Hi Daan, in my experience, differences between tubes (or between tubes and solid state) ranges between zero and fairly noticeable. Don't be discouraged. Try listening to some of my other listening tests, especially the Tesla and Tungsram. If you still can't hear a difference, simply sit back and enjoy the music and save your $ for a good set of speakers instead of tube rolling.
CBS Hytron! And all the tubes sound better than the solid state in this test
BUT WAIT! Chaka's honoring LULU's classic in her own iconic style is BEST voiced by the NOS Amperex...GREAT!
Wow! On the first song, solid state was the least favorable, while the electro harmonix was my favorite. In the second song I liked the Amperex most and solid state the least. Awesome videos!
What is that tape recorder you got on your rack?
David32Finkbeiner if you're referring to the open reel deck, it's an Otari.
Sylvania is vantage ? before 1950?
WOW that second track is WIDE OPEN with those Amperex. I prefer the CBS on the first track. How much are those Amperex? Those CBS are damn $1000 !!!!!!!! no way I can afford those, they cost more than the preamp LOL
Wow... is the volume maxed out on the preamp? EH is pretty good at the given price point!
It is turned up, yes. The idea is to drive the tubes to induce the even-order harmonic distortion that creates that "tube sound" which isn't present when overdriving JFETs
@@TycoDogg Thanks for the insight. The newer version of freya cannot be opened up. Even for a blown fuse may require a return for repair. I believe your version does not have the limitation spotting the screws ontop of the unit. A keeper!
@@Rayshader How are the newer units top plates secured? I would never buy a piece of audio gear that couldn’t be opened up.
It would be more useful if you connected the freya+'s output straight into the ADC and used actually known songs.
dude, how are you people getting these tubes? I can't find ANY of these Amperex anywhere.
Amperex 6SN7s are basically unicorns at this point. You're better off looking for the Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7s. I'm hoping to pick up a Holland-made set myself and doing an Amperex vs Amperex soon.
@@TycoDogg so whats the deal on those Russian ones that are "built" the same? Is that.....an option? Are they similar in sound? Are they ALSO impossible to find? lol
@@JayGreezy There is controversy around the Amperex 6SN7s because they look identical to Soviet made 6SN7s (which are inexpensive and easy to find), so some people say that Amperex may have never made a 6SN7 in Holland, but rather sourced tubes from the Soviet Union and labeled them as made in Holland. I don't know for sure and don't have an opinion either way...if the tubes sound good regardless of where they are from, I like them.
@@TycoDogg Update, I WAS ABLE TO FIND TWO!! For the gain stage of my Freya+, I get them tomorrow im pumped. Only 2 on the damn internet right now lol
@@JayGreezy congrats!
Aperex is you want the U curve
Hello Tyco, thank you for your videos. where can I buy these Amperex tubes?
Ayus Ba check Ebay, but do your research on the buyer and make sure the test results are listed for each tube.
The main thing I get out of this is ..... solid state is NOT for me,....... at least for the preamp stage.
5692 with Amperex in second place for me. The Amperex has more "sparkle" but the 5692 is more "liquid."
Why use NOS in shiit ?
I don't know why but that sound with more right volume makes my ears ache. in order to hear the differences well, you need a well balanced stereo sound.
"Amperex sound better".
Jfet omg))) amperex sound nice, cbs the worst
E-H won. Then Philips, then CBS go
After 3 years: Sylvania and Amperex sound similar (sound like for a home hi-fi, and Sylvania makes this better), and Philips, CBS, and Harmonix are also similar (for a pro audio I would say, besides Philips makes this ideally, however CBS and E-H try to be "a little bit for home hi-fi also", but they are not great in this). These are two moods (let's call them Sylvania and Philips), and JFET is absolutely characterless.
This is always interesting for me to get back to old listening sessions and confirm or change my impressions.
damn for me best one is sylvania :|