The AV Experience - How much to you need to spend on your home theater? (S03E07)
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
- How much is enough and how much is too little to spend on a home theater? When do diminishing returns occur and what are the critical things to spend on?
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@jvonengeln
Can't always catch you guys Live, but I do enjoy the replays during my travels! Thank you for keeping the program going, appreciate you guys!!
Thanks for the sound off and I’m glad you enjoy the livestream!
Dont know if I missed it, but is this availble as a podcast? I enjoy listening to you guys when im out taking a walk with the kids out in the pram:)
Not yet! I'll ask Ryan about picking that up again.
Hi Ryan, Dirac applies correction down to 10Hz these days. There was a brief period they went through where they didn't touch below 20Hz, but this is no longer the case. I use minidsp or Equalizer APO for
I’ve sent this to Ryan to make sure he didn’t miss it.
@@jvonengeln Thanks Jonathan. DLBC really is a fantastic entry into bass optimisation for those that aren't in the league of Storm, Trinnov, etc.
Great video and you guys are 💯 right i have been down that rabbit hole with speakers. And subs i have had around twenty different subs. And i should have just got the big boys. I have them now and im done in the speaker dept
25K is the sweet spot I'm shooting for as I plan my build. 9.1.6 with compression drivers from PSA, like 8 18" Ultimax + parts express boxes, Denon A1H, and 98" MiniLED.
That’s gonna be a killer system! Sounds like a fantastic parts list!
Emotiva has really good speakers for the money. I also really like the sound of ribbon tweaters.
Great show as normal, i think a side conversation of this subject is front room friendly speakers. I don't know if you have done a survey of your audience to see how many people's setup is in a dedicated home cinema or living room. For example I have monitor audio silver 300 in oak 5.1 in my living room. So I know there not the best speaker by a long shot but it's pretty and I got the whole package for £1200 secondhand. I got a old denon and a cheap 12in sub from BK electronics.
Added to the back log show idea list, but I think we’ve kind of talked about this before. Even here. Wharfedale Diamond bookshelves were my recommendation and Ryan suggested Martin Logan bookshelves for a more aesthetic focused room with laid back sound requirements (not reference capable)
I apologize, I didn't watch the whole video before I commented. I would love for you to get your hands on a rsl 12s and review it. Maybe not listen to your system for a week to be fair. @@jvonengeln
I had a viewer send me a link to the segment claiming that I said it was possible to DSP a cheapo speaker to sound better than speakers costing thousands. That is not really true. Price is not the important metric, but rather the directivity index, and whether the speaker has the headroom needed. I specifically talked about an inexpensive speaker in the Polk XT20 because the ERDI is surprisingly good at the price. That doesn't mean all cheap speakers can do the same thing. I've seen many expensive speakers with embarrassing directivity measurements. Just wanted to set that straight.
Here's a direct quote from something I posted on AVS "One limitation is having speakers with bad directivity. No amount of EQ can fix both the on-axis and off-axis response. It's always a trade-off between those two. I've made an educational video about why that's the case also. So, you're correct in saying that someone should buy the best measuring speakers they can afford. I've shown how to look at directivity index to find a speaker that takes well to EQ."
To be clear, I've measured $25K/PR speakers that sound worse than $250/PR speakers without DSP, so there's that.
You are throwing SPL output out the window though Joe which Johnathan time and time again has emphasized is important to many of us in Home Theater. Loudness can be measured too.
@@srtswpak47 I did mention headroom in my comment.
I just started this, but at 8:50, Jonathan just described my speakers and I agree. 8 inch woofer, with compression driver, lively and fun. Close to reference, if not reference capability. I'm not so sure it's tiered... but I definitely don't like this 2-channel restriction. Who cares, upscaled/multichannel audio sounds better. Why spend the money on restricting yourself to 2 speakers to achieve the same soundstage...
@@Macroproxy I could not have said it better. I share your opinion on the matter.
@@jvonengeln Just got to you bringing up the A10H. I'm very excited for the announcement. I only need 13ch, and my compression drivers don't need that much power. I was seconds from buying the A1H and that announcement saved me $2k. I just spent the money on getting more of my speakers ordered for 9.x.4 all same speakers.
@@Macroproxy Smart move! Congrats! I’m sure you’ll love it!
I think studio monitors are a great starting point for a two channel / surround sound. Kali Audio IN8 are 350 buck per speaker. Sound amazing get lower than alot of bookshelfs.
@@christiankansichi6622 only issue there is most studio monitors are meant to be close proximity use - even desk monitor use. Sometimes (oftentimes) they struggle with hitting Reference cleanly when used far field. But otherwise they are an excellent choice.
Your silence was telling Jonathan. 🔥
You know too much!!! My wife sent me a couple texts during the show I didn't see till after. One said she wasn't adding stress, and the second said NO projector on this camping trip. lol!
@@jvonengeln 🤣
Ascendo Square Sub: I saw it in the Ascendo Head-Quarter. It is tiny in compare to the 32“. There will be 4 voice-coils behind the flat Membrane-surface. The performance in compare of the used space is enormous.
Much more engineering behind the sub that Kicker 🤐…
The kicker reference was a joke, but i do admit they are the only ones I’ve known in all these years who have stuck with square subs and are a well known consumer option.
@jvonengeln in a future episode it would be great to discuss LFE+Main vs LFE. OCA's EVO has my 212 RTs set to large and bass to LFE+Main and crossover at 40hz and man does my system sound better than every before. I know that is not due to LFE+Main only but that is counter to what we have all been told for years
@@Rayman-expertsoundpro take a listen to this and let’s talk further. ruclips.net/video/OPA6tvrqx6A/видео.htmlsi=hST-d5Nx3gw8b9o1
@@jvonengeln Hey Jonathan, yes I have seen that before. I should qualify that I do not use my system for 2 channel music but for HT LFE+Main with speskers set to large sounds a heck of a lot better than the traditional ways of doing things. EVO has really made a difference for me. Hit me up anytime man. Thanks, Ray
I took a f*ckton of notes while watching this. Super intrigued by the Mackie/Behringer speakers idea. Is that because they can go super loud without distorting?
Reference levels, and the surprising dynamics that come with that without distorting and compressing. Look up Mackie C200 and C300z, and Behringer 212XL or 215XL for some ideas to consider.
@@jvonengeln Thanks mate!
I think most people are starting with living room setups. In that case pro audio are probably too big/ugly and -5 under reference is usually okay for most people. I think a mass manufactuted speaker with a waveguide would be a good choice for most people
@@paultravisano9403 horses for courses.
@jvonengeln true. Dedicated space, pro audio sounds like a great option
1:19:52 a speaker with good directivity is key to being able to eq it.
@@bigjack79 that’s part of the equation. The other key part is room and boundary interactions that are never the same seat to seat in a small to midsize home theater - even with a good directivity speaker. That’s why I always say very granular specific high Q tweaks to one seat are to the detriment of the other seats in the theater. (And that’s mostly regardless of speaker, in a typical sized HT room.)
@@jvonengeln true. Magic beans / true target shines in this area because it takes into account the speaker near field measurment along with what the room has added at the mlp to come up with what to eq. So it is personalized for a given room
Pro audio subs can sound really good. Ive heard the jbl 5628 in a cinema and it was the best sub ive heard. not even the pb 16 ultra can compete!
Frequency response +-3 db at 24 hz
4000 watts rms
3.5" peak to peak excursion
@@peterotremba8980 you’d take a PB16 Ultra in a HT room if compared side by side on cinema I’d bet your bottom dollar. We did a similar shootout in 2011 testing this. The Pro Audio Yamaha subwoofer with dual 18”s placed almost dead last in subjective scoring because it was missing the bottom octave of sound for movie content. EVEN compared to a SVS PB12+ that was ranked by the attendees subjectively a few positions higher. Now in music that Yamaha Pro Audio sub placed near the top, because the music didn’t have those low frequencies and it was a fun sub to listen to. The difference between a sub that will do 16Hz and 25Hz is ALMOST a full octave and there is audible, enjoyable content down there in some (not all) movies. But enough audible content in our test tracks to really hurt the subs scores. Now that Yamaha sub was tuned low 30Hz range and the one you are talking about is tuned 25Hz range so that helps the case for the JBL. However, in my firm opinion, 25Hz is tuned too high for a home theater sub. you are giving up too much real world enjoyable content. I’m going to link you another video to illustrate a bit more of what I’m talking about.
@@peterotremba8980 read this. www.avsforum.com/threads/2011-kansas-city-subwoofer-meet-results.1335139/
@@peterotremba8980 watch this. My JTR captivators were tuned optionally to 15 Hz or 20Hz depending on one port plugged or not. It’ll show you what the difference between 25Hz and 19Hz is as an example. There are big differences to be experienced in those bottom frequencies that are just missing or well into distortion with higher tuned pro audio subs. ruclips.net/video/5YpXIFfScAU/видео.htmlsi=LxZWCsRlmkonT1pM
You need to be someone who also likes the sound of running subs hot and/or tactile bass. Personally I hate that. My subs are flat down to 20hz but I don't boost them or like them boosted. I had subs that didn't go much below 30hs and tbh they were fine.
I wonder what you would think of my room with my preferences - in person. In audition. If you are ever in Kansas City metro look me up for a free demo.
@@jvonengeln Thanks for the offer. Since ryan speaks so highly of it I have always wondered. I'm sure it's amazing.
the a10h replaces the 8500ha
What speakers do you have Jonathan?
@@ryanb6763 JBL CBT 70J-1
@@ryanb6763 check out this thread for more information on my speakers. www.avsforum.com/threads/jbl-cbt-70j-1-line-arrays-a-very-uniform-sound-experience-in-every-seat.3271446/
@@jvonengeln thanks for sharing. Those are very interesting!
Just get a diesel pickup johnthan. Lol.
you aren't wrong!
Hsu subs
HSU is good stuff.
We need to figure out why Ryan's mic volume is so low. Watching the podcast is like having one parent calmly explaining what you did wrong and why you are in trouble while the other is yelling at you.
@@HappyBullets I laughed when I read that, but I also realize this is a problem we need to fix. We will be better.
I know you've heard it a lot at this point, but Ryan's volume is too low...
This goes on every week. Cant believe Ryan doesn't know this. This week was the worst.
On and off, last week was good, this week its down there again. Seems he sits at different places.
@@miscreant1739 We apologise for the fault in the volume. Those responsible have been sacked.
@@mattgiunt We apologise again for the fault in the volume. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked.
@@bloodcarver913 The directors of the podcast hired to fix the volume after the other people had been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been sacked.