Still a firm believer that the two world combined immediately after being reformed. The worlds themselves wanted to recombine, but their composition was incompatible. After Origin activated, the two worlds were made of the same stuff and were compatible to recombine properly. The people didn’t do anything, it was the will of the worlds themselves.
Obviously. Origin doesn't have the ability to TRULY STOP the collision of worlds, as the main reason Origin existed in the first fucking place is because the beings of both worlds wanted to exist AFTER the collision. After Z died, Aionios, which was a fake world amalgam created by Origin after stopping Time, separated after the Origin restarted, as Aionios isn't a proper fusion of universes but is in a space-time that's happening moments before the Real Annihilation event, which will destroy both universes and create a new one, then the main purpose of Origin comes in, via Terraforming the reality of that new planet with all the information stored inside it, and starting again fron the previous save state (Ending Noah seeing the Clock Tower ring after Time moved again). Which is also why Ending Noah recognized the Flute music and instead of looking for the fireworks, he proceeds to look for the source of the Music instead.
adult mio speaks after the post credit scene. They couldn’t have formed immediately after, especially given that adult mios memories and feelings of Noah are fading away.
....KOS MOS floating in space for all that time, and specifically her color leaving her corpse... could have to do with how she ended up as a blade in XC2. Her consciousness abandoned her body and went somewhere it could be more useful until her next true purpose is reached
There is one more thing that Blade has which could be important here regarding the spoilery stuff - Nopon. They simply appeared after Klaus's experiment, and the Archsage is an absurdly powerful entity. It's completely unexplained what they are, where they came from, and why they took form. They're pretty enigmatic, and with Riku doing Riku things in 3 and Future Redeemed, it's entirely possible that they play a much greater role in the future of the series than anyone knows.
The more games that pass, the more intriguing a mystery the Nopon become, especially wrt the way Origin handles them in 3 imo. I'd pop off if they were actually the key, it would be AWESOME.
The Nopon archsage is funny if we assume any relevance, but I'm not so sure about the species itself. The way it all is written out, it genuinely seems like they existed prior to the experiment and we just never saw them during that timeframe out of sheer coincidence, similar to the "new animals" that managed to develop the same across universes and should thus be data accurate. And X on its own is not really enough to argue in the other direction because this relation is actually backwards, the ancestors of these guys must have been pulled into a dimensional rift as far as we know because they have legends revolving around the existance of the bionis, which...obviously not a thing in X.
Nephelim, Abel, and Chaos staving off the inevitable end of the universe feels really similar to Shulk, Rex and A at the end of Future redeemed. Then you add FR having the big alpha mech fight while xenosaga has the big omega mech fight, FR has a lot of Saga imagery where the end of Saga seems to connect to FR a lot more than just the radio scene.
@@famillesabot5719 Several people joked about the fact that he's pretty much related to almost every single member of the Future Redeemed party. Either as a Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather, or In-Law 😂
@@lpfan4491 It is said that for every person, inevidably, their descendants would either go extinct or include the entire human population. I might dare to believe that our beloved thing-or-three-shower is speedrunning the latter.
Im.surprised you havent commented on how perfectly both the end credits scenes for base game 3 and future redeemed line up perfectly: the worlds intersect as noah hears the flute which def a strong implication the rejoining was almost instantaneous. Also, are you planning to make any videos about how pneuma and logos got into aionios? I think a lot of ppl are still kind of stumped as to how they got there, esp logos and how N came to wield his power. Keep up the great work!
There's a very interesting detail at the end of Xenoblade 2 that can help explain this - Aion's interface. You can see that both Logos and Pneuma's data winds up being logged in Aion. It is likely that at some point off-screen Rex salvaged the wreckage of Aion which would've contained the data for Logos and Pneuma inside, which explains why we don't see Logos's core crystal despite hints of its presence. Due to all the research on Core Crystals done by Amalthus, odds are you could just transfer the two's data from Aion into parts of the sheath of N's sword and a fresh crystal generated by either Pyra Or Mythra. Does raise the question of how the hell the data didn't get damaged when Aion sank into the ocean, but hey if your everyday typical sank submarine could maintain functionality to a special door and its associated trap then I don't see why a futuristic sci-fi mecha couldn't store the data underwater without damage, especially since said mecha seems to not share the problem others of its make have where it doesnt rely on the Conduit as a power source as shown in the ending of Xenoblade 2. As for why Rex would do this, good question. I can only assume that if the theories about Pyra and Mythra's memories being wiped like any blade would when reawakened are true that Rex would try to salvage whatever he could find to recover their memories together. As for why he wouldn't also return Pneuma's power, remember that she didn't want that power. Rex being Rex would've respected that since it wasn't needed anymore and would've probably stored it in a generated crystal for safekeeping so nobody would abuse it similar to how Addam stored the third blade away. As for N's sheath, I'm just as clueless as you for why it was made, but the how of its creation makes sense at least.
think a more simple explanation is considering origin is memories and souls, like how dannagh desert is present, logos was somehow able to be stored as well specifically memories of him hence why no core crystal shown. Pyra and mythra prob returned to their core crystal when they are assimilated into origin considering we see core crystal like objects are used to store the beings of both worlds. When Z came into existence Nia & melia created weapons to fight back with melia creating Noah's Lucky seven right before she was captured using the souls of important people to forge it while Nia created ouroboros stones as well as the gauntlet with origin metal containing pneuma and a second lucky seven with memories of logos. Obv N got the logos lucky seven as he was originally fighting against moebius and I presume with each incarnation he came to wield it time and time again. I said memories for logos since I find it hard to believe anything of aion is left but I think pieces of aion apparently surviving is an acceptable second answer as well cuz it's physical objects that we know contained logos data. I presume that was just put into origin as well maybe not rex purposely searching for them but kinda paralleling to shulk he just happened to come across them. Maybe even unknowingly it was used as part of origin
@@baked7423 Considering Aion withstood the full power of Pneuma and was still fully functional, it's going to most likely be structurally sound and whole enough after falling into the ocean to contain Logos and Pneuma's data for over a year before being salvaged. Also Logos's core crystal was severely damaged by Rex and Pneuma's data was missing on the Core Crystal as shown during the reawakening of Pyra and Mythra. Only place that data could've persisted was Aion, which was left nigh undamaged by the party no matter what they did. Either rex had his own motive to salvage Aion and this was a convenient reason the data was obtained so that Tora could input the data into Origin, or Tora tasked Rex and a crew (Probably the same one from the start of the game, for the sake of a narrative tie) to salvage Aion for the express purpose of giving Ontos his role of arbitor back. I personally lean towards the former because there's no way Tora would've known Aion would have backups of Logos and Pneuma's data - the only reason we did is we got to see it from the interface. Either way, this plan to reunite the trinity processor failed and Ontos lacked input as the consciousnesses behind the data were long gone. If Pyra and Mythra were inside that Core Chip/Core Crystal, They'd be reformed into Pneuma seeing as the data is on that crystal. As a result, Alpha would've had 1/2 of the input required by default and there wouldn't be any need for Matthew to trigger the power manually as it would've only required N to comply.
I never agreed with the idea the XC3 cast mattered less than other parties, they had their major role to olay with breaking the endless now and keeping things moving. My favorite thing about the Xenoblade games is that each party and their stories are connected on the grand scheme and a at the same time on their own, so separate. They have their own worlds, conflicts and stories. I know people wanted that big 3 game crossover in 3's main game, but I'm glad they left it to a minimum and saved it for Future Redeemed, it gave the 3 cast time to shine without out the other titles shining over them. That's how I feel about it at least, coming from someone who was very satisfied with the ambiguous nature of 3's ending (I think the way it was left gave enough space for people to speculate the future for themselves and not everything needs to be tied up in a neat little bow).
Tbh, I don't really understand the topic of conversation anyways. By that logic, the Xenoblade 2 party matters way less than the Xenoblade 1-one because the entirety of 2 was basically about the conduit's power(Both sides of the conflict used it) and Shulk made it indirectly vanish when he killed Zanza, which took 0 participation from Rex and gang. Did people care for the few years since 2 came out? No, infact people were told to stop whining if they pointed it out. Why is the Xenoblade 3 cast treated so diffrently?
@@lpfan4491 I think it's the fact that is the conclusion to this particular overarching story. So in a way I get it, but I love how each cast was so contained in their own stories, it makes them all feel important to their own narratives, all 3 games impacting the saga
Haven't seen the video yet, but from the moment I saw the ending of FR I believed that the worlds "interlinked" thanks to Noah's and Mio's FEELINGS (key word there) and the lights in the center of the two worlds that shine and react to each other represent Noah and Mio
Time dilation is, IMO, one of the easiest things for me to suspend my disbelief for. Hell, it's a concept we literally KNOW exists due to Aionios being stuck in one point in time, so it's not unlikely to say that the worlds created by the conduit and trinity processor wouldn't already have that. Anyway almost everything you said lines up with what I thought. The fact that Moebius itself IS tied to humanity's collective unconscious was already setting off alarm bells in my head before the DLC, so I'm almost certain that origin itself will play a key part in... Xenoblade Saga?
Him: Im gonna spoil the Xenosaga series so don't watch this if you wanna go in blind! Me: Ha! You really think im gonna understand any of whats about to be said right now. Im still confused about your Radio video.
An interesting thought is that Noah & Mio’s combining with N & M is something we can call Intralink (like how an Intranet is local, while the Internet is with other groups) - in fact, this is something we’ve seen before, with Mythra & Pyra becoming one identity to access Penuma’s power.
11:46 I see what you did there, I suppose you could say that, they need to find the key they lost. 15:30 Obligatory reminder that the Sammarians appeared at the beginning of time from another universe. If the plan is to outlast the destruction of the universe, then I can try to shoehorn in a Xenoblade X connection and no one can stop me!
More fuel to the fire that Xenoblade X is actually Xenoblade 10, but to be fair the Samaarians being the Xenosaga humanity coming from the previous universe is a connection that makes complete sense. After all, this story never truly ends.
13:18 And the fact that KOS-MOS Refrain is a thing in the lore and implies that somehow Shion, the Professor, and Allen or KOS-MOS Version 3's blueprints got transported back in time alongside the information on how to create Core Crystals (Which, keep in mind, were created to repair those harmed by the experiment and to bring about a new cycle of life) in order to make KOS-MOS Refrain which then begs the question how the hell they got back to that point in time in the first place, as well as implant information on Radamanthus inside the core crystal. Can't wait to see the video explaining how Refrain fits into all this, because Time Shenanigans is the only method that makes sense to me but raises a whole mothership-load of questions with it. Best I can come up with is Eternal Recurrence happened at least once in the past and Wilhelm used information from a previous iteration to create the refrains to monitor the conduit for some unknown purpose and put it in the names of the people who created KOS-MOS Version 3.
ngl i was half expecting your next video post-SMRPG and Star Ocean 2 remake direct being about how now is hte perfect time to remake Xenogears in the 2DHD style
One thing I think that definitely lends credence to the XC1 and XC2 worlds reforming into one within a lifetime is that we know the worlds just picked back up where they left off. Along with this we know that the two halfs of origin were built in preparation for the worlds meeting. This means those of the XC1 and XC2 parties who worked on origin had knowledge about the other world prior to the worlds combining and would still have their knowledge after time resumed. Plus they would still have the means to communicate that we were shown in story with the other world either immediately or when the worlds neared each other in their "orbit" again. So I definitely think the reconnecting of the worlds occurred within the XC3 casts lifespan, presumably as the worlds neared each other however they do in their "orbit" since the work on reconnecting the worlds properly would have been able to resume pretty easily after the end of the endless now.
I'm honestly still confused by rejoining not being the plot FROM THE START. it makes more sense for so many reasons, and it gives Möbius an actual legitimate 'change' to fear. Instead of being obsessed with the status quo _which is exactly what Origin had always planned to do?_ But it was communicated so poorly, perhaps they really knew all along that they would use Origin to survive the annihilation _separately_ and THEN rejoin (since Origin would recreate them as no-longer-incompatible forms of matter). And maybe didn't want to mention that last part in case it didn't work?
@@KairuHakubi I sorta feel like Origin was just step 1 on the process, and more of a patch job than a permanent fix. It was a solution to the immediate problem of the worlds colliding and annihilating on impact, but it wasn't a permanent one since it's not like the annihilation would be negated if the worlds drifted back together again afterwards (and that's almost a given as there is no longer anything holding them apart). So in the long run they'd need to actually resolve the problem rather than just holding it off forever, and figuring out a stable interlinking of the two worlds would be an ideal end point for that process. The fact that Ouroboros exist means that there is definitely a starting point for people to go from, assuming that at least some of the key players remember or recover their Aionos memories, and they should have at least 2/3 or the Trinity Processors in play to help resolve it alongside genii on both sides of the split.
@@KairuHakubi i would have to go back and watch some cutscenes again. But I believe I remember something about how mobius interfered during the original process thus causing the endless now.
@@IainDoherty51 But Ouroboros is not a stable interlink at all and does not seem to be a valid lead to start with, staying in the form for too long causes annihilation also.
@@lpfan4491 Aye, but it's not the immediate annihilation that was the impetus behind the creation of Origin, and does show some degree of coexistence is possible. There have been a number of cases in the past where things seemed far fetched barring very niche scenarios, and after further research or looking into things turned out to be much easier to pull off with a greater degree of understanding. See the Wright Brothers barely staying off the ground for more than a few seconds and contrast that to modern planes that can circumnavigate the globe. You've got to start somewhere after all :D
That very last sentence of Kos-Mos having a Tora and Shulk built body just made me think of a whole kinda combat/upgrade system with idea of FR in mind without the whole process of unlock kits So idea, the whole party I’m going to say is Kos-Mos Shulk, Fiora(with her mecha form), Rex, Poppi, Pyra, Mythra, Pnuema, Nia, Noah, Mio, and their two Ouroboros forms as sorta avatars ala FR but actually more physically manifested as if they did interlink, just cause it kinda fits my whole idea and not for any real lore, story, etc reasons. So each character can upgrade their weapons possibly through the use of origin metal or some type of new materials now available to the world. This will enhance their weapon’s strength and stats, as well as that weapon’s innate arts and whatever additional things they can do(like Pnuema’s form or smt). Now for other arts you could get that aren’t innate and are from other ways. I think maybe being unlocked through memories could work, an interesting way to include the previous world or Saga arts and the like, I also think it might kinda work similar to the how the hero system worked where characters essentially also unlocked sorta that characters memories. I think it could also similarly work with upgrading the weapons through the materials like what was for the innate weapons of the party members, since I feel like the materials part could be similarly story related as the characters could be weaken like Kos-Mos or Pyra for some reason due to sustaining the worlds or losing part of themselves or their memories after the merge. Kinda added story stuff but I just kinda like this system since it’s sorta taking the upgrades of all three worlds, since I think SP could be specific to an affinity system or upgrading their special actions like fusing into a new Pnuema sword so Rex can dual wield it with Nia’s sword, Fiora getting some sorta unleashed mecha form or smt similar to what we kinda see in the game when Mayneth takes control, etc
I will say I think Zanza is pretty explicitly made out to be talking BS claiming he remade the *universe* multiple times seeing as how he literally couldn't without Meyneth, who opposed the idea, which is the whole reason Xenoblade...ya know, happened.
I wonder if the developers had the canonization plan when they were making 2. We know that they had the idea for 3 and made 2 to set it up, so did the idea for 3 include the Saga stuff?
At the very least, there is stuff in the World Tree / Siren model kit that references xenosaga. It makes sense that it would reference xenosaga since it is from xenosage
If they had no plans for a saga-connection, then they wouldn't have put the effort into pushing the entire Kos-mos Re: thing. They would have just called her Kos-mos(The localization doing so does not count) and have her have no relations to prior materials. Compare to the Xenogears connection that is clearly more recent because it was only solidified in 3. 2 only had some vague references to the plotpoint of Deus and its connection to its Zohar.
I just want to say real quick. "We will meet again" doesn't always mean what you'd think. We see plenty of stories were "we will meet again" ends up being bittersweet. Or just straight up bitter. But. That said. I do want to see the saga cast still alive.
origin doesn't reverse anything, it's not undoing anything either. when the worlds separated again, it was more like loading an old save. but because origin is basically a giant computer, the save data for the other worlds are both in origin still. it would probably automatically just reconnect the worlds to their proper state, without the negative effects of aionios or mobius
Yeah, dunno where people get the undo things. All we saw what Origin does is stopping the universe time of xb1 and xb2 worlds(which is implied to be not permanent), reality warping in an area (both Xb1 and 2 worlds are Pocket Universes so it definitely isn't that big compared to the main Xeno world) and Storing Souls. Though apparently it's also so snuffing tough that even the energy released from 2 colliding space-time continuums isn't powerful enough to destroy it.
@@primordiuspendragon1620 Yeah there was a lot of interesting kinda handwaving going on there, the special material it's made of is just so _other_ that it isn't affected by... anything but itself. Including dimensional-shifting stuff. I do love how they find a new way in every Xeno game to give us "the scifi reason that reality works like magic, so certain things can affect it or block its effects purely because they're not that thing"
As a Solution for the Timedialation-Problem could be the Mass of the smaller Plantes in the Pocketdimentions compared to Earth. The smaller the Gravitation, the faster Time moves. I didn't play the Saga Games, but i think they have normal Gravity on they're Space Ships...so there sould be normal Timeflow trough a Massgenerator.
One part of me would prefer a xenoblade adaptation of xenosaga, more akin to Takahashi's original vision (or atleast the first part of it) allowing them to close plot holes, and resolve whatever was going on in episode 2. Though this would also likely mean we wouldn't be getting post xenoblade 3 content for probably at least 6 or so years, so not exactly ideal. Regardless I'm sure monolith will deliver what they believe to be the best option.
Shion and crew can be in cryo sleep for that time, waiting until their ship gets a signal from KOS-MOS that she has arrived on Earth. Then the ship wakes them up and they can go straight to KOS-MOS’s signal.
Luxin, re: your comment about "how long does it take for things to recombine" around 4:30: The time between Noah hearing Mio's flute in the ending from when things resume is ABOUT the same time as it takes for the scene where it shows the worlds merge. I think they're +/- a second. My interpretation after FR and XC3's ending is that they actually recombine rather quickly -- within I think it was 18 seconds of time resuming. Play it back! You could make a 45 minute video about it. 🙂
No matter how much you read into it, at the end of the day Xenosaga has the most evidence to come back/continue as a reimagining than anything else right now. Takahashi is not one to leave his stories unfinished. He word for word literally gave the plot in Xenoblade 3 via the Moebius song in Xenogears (the japanese version of the ending theme) Like yes he's going to follow up on Xenoblade X one day and finish that universe off but right now it's clear as day it is Xenosaga. There is too much evidence with the radio, the same ending as Xenosaga III, Namco given SPECIAL THANKS in Xenoblade 3's credits not to mention the IP notices in Xenoblade 3 literally have Xenosaga there. Luxin, keep on fighting the good fight and getting word of Xenosaga coming back out there. I imagine Xenosaga was chosen because Monolith Soft could not come to agreement with Square about Xenogears too so while Xenogears got a reference with the Philadelphia class ship, it was only one reference just like another version of Xenoblade X's project exodus. The overwhelming amount of evidence suggests Xenosaga because it has the most things going for it. You just can't call this cute references anymore.
So, on a related topic, who's up for Poppi and KOS-MOS interactions? Even a in-joke throwaway line by Poppi saying remembers someone who looks like her...or not, if you catch my drift.
I think it's also quite possible that the name origin was chosen as a reference to computer program version control as it serves a very similar function, what with branching universes and merging and whatnot. At least that's what i always assumed the namesake was, but if it also doubles as a reference to that line from chaos... Takahashi do be cooking
I didn't play any game from the Saga series but I would love to see a remake series that connects to the world of Xenoblade chronicles. Your video is a real hype train for the future. Hope you are right - again 🔮🚂💯🍀
Crazy idea here: what if the Conduit disappearing in Xenoblade 2 was a "phase transition event" in which it not only traveled to a different dimension, but a different time as well? Perhaps it traveled so far back in time and to a different universe that it was "discovered" by an ancient people, which in order to contain its unlimited power, contained it in a sort of shell, which is not only why it looks different in Xenossaga, but also why it is called the Zohar instead of the Conduit. The Conduit is its original form, where the Zohar is what it became called. Then, when Wilhelm "sealed" the Zohar, it underwent another "phase transition event" where it was sent to its original timeline whre Klaus could experiment on it. Thus creating a time loop. This would also mean, of course, that Xenoblade and Xenosaga are technically in different universes, one in which the Conduit suddenly appeared on Earth in the 21rst Century and experimented on by Klaus, and the other where the Zohar was discovered in ancient times and then rediscovered by humanity in Kenya in the 21rst century. This would also allow the dev team to connect Xenoblade with Xenosaga while eliminating all the potential plot holes. Each series takes place in a different timeline, but in both timelines the present and future play out similarly but not exactly the same. That's why in Xenosaga, humanity takes off to the stars to escape the Zohar, while in Xenoblade humanity is using the Conduit's power to colonize the stars. Wilhelm is perhaps the same person in both timelines, but born at a different time, which is why the dates don't add up on the radio in Future Redeemed.
Well Bamco did just announce they'll be at anime expo on the 1st to share "Exciting announcements and game reveals" so maybe, juuuuuuuuuuust maybe we'll get a treat of some kind... but maybe not.
I'm still a little confused about the conclusion that Noah and Mio are to thank for the worlds recombining (and reappearing in Saga-verse?). I feel that Melia and Nia are also largely to thank, even if Noah and Mio happen to be the only ones left with memories. That said, it also doesn't really offset my concern that the *other* 3 characters (Lanz, Eunie, Taion and Sena) do feel very irrelevant in the wider narrative, like "bit-players" who don't even really exist anymore as we knew them, even compared to 1's party. That always bothered me more than how Noah and Mio ended up. As for the Saga connection, one part of the connection that still confuses me: doesn't Saga describe Lost Jerusalem as being in an 'imaginary-number' domain? And in Saga, isn't 'imaginary-number' kind of like, a collective human consciousness/psychology thing rather than a physics thing? (I'm barely familiar with Saga myself, but this is something that came up in conversations I had with Saga fans about FR's ending) I also feel like chaos calling Lost Jerusalem "the land of origin" doesn't have to mean anything deeper considering Earth is simply where most of society originates in Saga.
I believe that the 2 worlds reformed essentially right after due to a something small i saw right after future redeemed was released. if you time the post credit scene of future redeem with the post credit scene from xenoblade 3 at the exact moment the worlds become one it lines up with Noah hearing Mios flute which would seem to imply thats the moment the 2 became one
Bionis world before XC1 = pocket dimension in the imaginary numbers domain, where gods can exist Bionis world after XC1 = a recreation of the planet in the real numbers domain but on a different plane than Alrest Alrest = Earth after the incident, real numbers domain, but isolated by the space time anomaly and so isn’t in the normal plane where the rest of the solar system etc is Aionios = another pocket dimension in the imaginary numbers domain while the real worlds are frozen in time during the intersection of their planes trying to come back together Post FR world = the planets merged correctly to fully restore the original Earth in the plane where everything else is This is my theory, and it’s supported by visual cues (the “bubble” around XC1’s endless sea cracking and resulting into the universe around it to be revealed, Reyn mentioning that the water is now salty, the two worlds looking like a transparent swirly thing in space before separating and then rejoining)
With the time dilation there was the saga guidebook that mentions dilation of 10000 years to 5000, it does give the incorrectly inverse numbers but that's probably just a mistake in how it was written With saga having a roughly 5000 year timeline after the 2000s AD, and blades 1-2 having a minimum 10000 year timeline it would fit pretty easily that earth time is twice as long as the time out in space
My only worry for xenoblade 4 is that I really REALLY like the titan setting and an earth setting just sounds plain for the xenoblade series, I'm sure monolith will find a way to make it drop dead gorgeous, maybe the geography changed to look more mythical, but yeah the world being just earth worries me a bit
at this point I doubt we'll just start a game knowing it's that setting, instead it'll have some huge reason it SHOULDN'T be the old rejoined earth, and then the big twist will be "But actually it is." and that might involve finding some giant fossilized being I'm sure the new earth will be fascinating in some way, and who knows, I mean they've messed with their reality SO hard, kludging together two world systems based on life being generated in weird ways, there could just be some new kind of emerging giants forming from... the heavily mutated descendants of extremely old blades mixing with haienta, causing the "turn into an ars / theresia" DNA to go haywire and make us cool dragons to fight. But probably it'll just be weird alien worlds. Maybe even spaceborne titans of some kind that travel between planets.
I think Mira shows they can make it work especially with the half a dozen titans and the gargantuan Bionis fusing together, question is how. Heck what if the Titan lifecycle while modified still exists, new titans born wandering the land which when they reach the end of their lives just become one with the land itself.
Here's another idea, one rhat takes into account no time dilation, but also harmonizes Saga + Blade's (+ X's) 2 somewhat similar versions of Earth: Xenoblade's Earth actually could have stemmed from an earlier recurrence, meaning Klaus destroyed the universe but Wilhelm reset it, while Klaus's universe was separate from that recurrence until the events of FR. This also explains why the "Land of Origin" (i.e. Aionios recombined) holds the key to fixing the issue. And the key is very simple to explain: a way to store souls so that they may start over elsewhere. And here's the kicker - this is EXACTLY what Elsa teaches X's Earthers so they can escape before the Ghosts n stuff invade. So yeah: Klaus's Earth destroyed - recurrence occurs sometime, due tk failsafe? (Xenoblade 1-3 unaffected) - Xenosaga's Earth reduced to Planck scale - Perfect Aionios shows up as Earth 3 arguably bringing back the Conduit (Klaus's universe) - Conduit manifests in ending lf XS3 due to chaos calling upon it - KOS-MOS goes back "home" to seek a way to store souls so they can survive recurrence OR bad universes merging (something accomplished in XC3 through Origin). And now things get even more interesting as humanity learned to reincarnate in other bodies, leading to the events of X and perhaps even Xenogears
We see Noah hear or at least remember Mio's flute at the end of base game 3, and notice something offscreen. Since the worlds recombined, it's very likely what that means is that the worlds are merged immediately after Origin finished doing what it was meant to do.
I have a different theory that I think cuts out time dilation (in the strictest sense of the word) without leaving Saga's cast out in the cold- the Blade worlds' pocket dimensions were exempt from Eternal Recurrence. While Wilhelm was resetting the outer world over and over again (the ingame guide for Episode III all but confirms his plans succeeded in multiple previous iterations), Bionis and Alrest kept going on in their secluded worlds, unaffected by the affairs of the "higher" dimension. This could even be used to handwave some of the inconsistencies between Blade lore and Saga lore they're going to have to address. Dimitri being born 4,000 years later in Saga than he apparently was in Blade? Blade Dimitri is from the universe's first iteration. Did Klaus cause the problems that lost Earth, or Grimoire Verum? Both- depending on which iteration you're talking about. If this is the case, it's *really* good that the worlds recombining happened on the same cycle that Shion and company finally broke the loop- had it taken a few thousand more years for the worlds to recombine, Saga may well have been returning to empty space.
Since N says Moebius are the world, and both N & M and Noah and Mio also become part or completely Moebius, would that explain their memories of the world
All this speculative stuff has me excited for the next game in the series to see how it’ll all come together but I feel like it’ll come to nothing other than a few small references instead of a direct continuation of both stories like we all want. Because games have to appeal to everyone and niche products “don’t sell” they’re not going to explicitly make these connections a big story focus. It’d be so cool to see a big cool crossover where everything converges but I have a feeling the next game will be largely it’s own story again with characters and references sprinkled in, like how xenoblade 3 ended up…
I think there's a good reason that that would be so niche, we've GOTTEN our big culmination now, we don't really need to take it further. It all ended, we should just let it move forward and have new stuff to care about that doesn't factor in to the backstories of the current world.
Reguarding the second part of the video, there is one part of the alternate theory that I think runs into an issue - the fogbeasts. Alvis, under Shulk's instruction to create a world without gods, tried to erase himself from existance because he himself had power that made him a god, and failed, becoming Alpha. Alpha is a fogbeast (arguably this is for gameplay purposes, but I think this is for story purposes as well, since fogbeasts are things that shouldn't exist but do... and someone that wasn't fully erased by the power Alvis had at that point sounds like somthing that shouldn't exist as far as reality is concerned), and I suspect that the Fog King is the remenants of a failed attempt by Alpha to erase the Infernal Guldo (suspected to be the remenants of Galea still alive in Alrest) for having a connection to Mayneth and thus being a potential god whose existance conflicted with Alvis's instruction to create a world without them. I don't think it was truly and permanently dead because the Guldo are the quest for immortality gone horribly wrong, and them not even escaping their terrible fate when apparenly destroyed would make sense for really underlining how badly the humans of earth had screwed everything up with that research. Note that in Future Connected fogbeasts other than the Fog King are so unreal that they need to possess a creature that does exist to do ANYTHING and can be defeated by killing their host, suggesting that the Fog King was closer to being real than any of the other fogbeasts at the time - and specifically and exactly the replica monado (i.e. somthing copying Alvis's reality-altering powers) was required in order to make the Fog King sufficiently real to kill. Also note that Origin - built by reverse-engineering Ontos and thus having its abilities be similar in nature to Alvis and the Monado - spent around 15 Aionios years making non-Alpha fogbeasts more real before Alpha made his move, and that was why Future Redeemed's fogbeasts don't need to possess another creature to do things and can be hurt with any weapon freely. Alpha himself seems to be real enough to do things without needing to be made more real, but needs to possess someone and make them his avatar to do things due to a mixture of aspects of his past as Ontos that weren't erased and the nature of the power he is directly wielding - Zanza appears to have been forced into that position when using said power drawn from Alvis, and his body not being made of fog appears to be because trying to erase yourself with the Conduit fails way sooner than whatever was causing Alvis to fail in erasing the things that became fogbeasts - probably because the paradox of somthing that doesn't exist erasing somthing makes trying to erase youself fail immediatly.
Why exactly would Shulk's wish affect a diffrent world, even if connected? And even then, it is not like there was any attempt to get rid of Pneuma who held similar power, she instead died by sacrifice.
@@lpfan4491 Part of making the world of the Bionis into a world without gods is the removal of all traces of the power of the gods it had - Zanza AND Mayneth. Given that Alvis appears to have been aware of the existance of some form of connection between Zanza and the Architect, it is entirely reasonable to assume Alvis would just assume the existance of one between Mayneth and whatever Galea's body became in Alrest (which is suspected to be the Infernal Guldo) and thus specifically target it for erasure in this process. It sould also be noted that while it is generally assumed the Architect vanished when Zanza died, the timing of the line between the two games for this is extremely tight (where is the time for the gameplay of the second phase of XC2's boss fight?), and the timing of the vanishing of the Conduit in Alrest (believed to be tied to Shulk's wish being made) makes things even tighter going the other way. If we assume that the Architect's disappearance was caused by Alvis responding to Shulk's wish and trying to fully erase Zanza, both timing issues are resolved. Such an interpretation does conflict with what the Architect said to Malos, but misleading Malos on details by omission when Malos can't check and the part that matters to Malos is true is no weirder than Alvis ommiting details about the situation when Klaus performed his experiment when talking to Shulk.
@@alexstewart9592 So basically "It doesn't work, so let's make stuff up and odds are, they will make it canon". How I love the writingconsistency after the first game...
Honestly, I think the Xenosaga happened before Xenoblade, after one of Wilhelm’s resets, and that the Dimitri is just an alternate Dimitri. Just like the blade Kosmos and T-elos in 2, which we know core crystal are based on the data of the old world, which would mean that Kosmos and T-elos already existed in the past of 2. In addition, Kosmos in 2, knows how to create the beanstalk, and it’s data from the previous world, before Klaus’ experiment.
My own theory is that the Conduit and the Zohar are just like the trinity processors, but on a universal scale rather than just for a single planet or realm of space and reality. So while Pneuma, Logos and Ontos were the custodians of smaller scale events, the Conduit and Zohar are just the next tier up... So i'm speculating that we might see a different object similar to those objects in the next storyline, but with a different "objective" from the Conduit and Zohar, granting whatever power is needed to oversee that new realm. It might even be the balanced entity, just like Ontos was a middle ground between the male and female persona of Logos and Pneuma, and the reason it was unknown until now, is because it simply couldn't exist until the worlds became "balanced" again, which might be what we see in the post credit scene of FR with the two extremes coming together, which is further symbolized by the initial bitter war between Agnus and Keves, until they fight together as one through Ouroboros.
The way I understand it, when Wilhelm initiates Eternal Recurrence the universe doesn't reset completely, but the subconscious of humanity (not sure how different this is from the Collective Unconscious) builds a steadily increasing rejection of Eternal Recurrence after every cycle. In Xenoblade, it is established that the subconscious of humanity is powerful enough to affect the physical world directly, as Z is a manifestation of the subconscious. However, what if this subconscious was directed, and directed with the aim to find a solution? Z and Aionios only arose because of Origin. Origin only arose because of Alvis, as the architecture of Origin is based on the Ontos core crystal. Even when the Ontos core crystal was in the Trinity Processor it had a special status. Maybe it even influenced Klaus to build the Trinity Processor itself and initiate the experiment with the ultimate end goal of eventually developing Origin. There's some speculation as to whether there may be a connection between Alvis/Ontos and chaos. Besides their appearance they both seek to counteract a godlike power that aims to reset the world/universe. If chaos insists that there's a key in the land of origin that is needed to prevent the universe from collapsing, it would make sense that chaos influenced the creation of the key, that maybe Origin is that key, and he may have been directed to create this key by humanity's subconscious after going through enough cycles of Eternal Recurrence. To add to the connection between chaos/Alvis and human subconscious, chaos held the power of Anima, and Anima and Animus reside in the human subconscious in Jungian psychology. It would make more sense that KOS-MOS would need to go back to Earth/Lost Jerusalem, where Ontos would be after the return of Earth, where the key of Origin would be, and where KOS-MOS would use her power of Animus (as the counterpart to chaos's Anima) together with the key to fulfill humanity's subconscious wish to finally transcend Eternal Recurrence and the destruction of the Universe.
Space can be slow to move on a relative scale, but individually the pieces can still move pretty fast. For example it takes 12 Earth years for Jupiter to rotate around the Sun, and 10 Earth hours to complete a solar day. The fact that Jupiter looked completely static with respect to Earth as the worlds reappeared and then recombined suggests that, while we don't know how long it took for Origin to download the worlds back into Earth's dimension, the time it took for them to recombine after they did would've been fast enough for Jupiter and Earth to hold the same position with respect to each other, so that probably happened in real time.
A lot of people are saying there is a plot hole on how the time doesn’t match up since it’s only been 4,000 years since xenosaga and the klaus experiment while earth has experienced more time. A lot of people don’t realize that in real life that time is different everywhere because of black holes the best explanation is that Xeno saga takes place closer to a black hole and that’s why time has moved slower.
Can someone fact-check me? Are you insinuating the connection of Saga and Blade by: Earth is the beginning, over time, Klaus destroys Earth, causing humanity to leave, making earth Lost Jerusalem. At the end of XC2, the Zohar disappears and ends up in the Xenosaga people hands. The events of future redeemed and 3 takes place restoring earth. Finally, the Xenosaga sends the Zohar back to lost Jerusalem and the cast returns to Earth.
Chaos (Yeshua) Nephilim and Abel Specifically use their holy power To Send the Zohar back yes. The Experiment Klaus causes Fucks up the universe, But Wilhelm stops that event before it gets out of hand so His eternal Occurrence doesn't fail. Some of Humanity Probably Leave's before this Due to Political reasons and The war we see in Xenoblade 2s flashback. Earth is restored After xenoblade 3 , Omega from xenosaga (the Artifact that Abel Pilots) is likely defeated at the same time Alpha is in FR. And at some point all we know is Kos-Mos lands on Earth/Lost Jerusalem.
Imagine if the Zohar in xenosaga is actually a replica or the conduite, as The conduite and the zohar are discribe as very different things and also in how they operate, i don't remember the exactly terminology they use but the conduite seems to be more of metaphisical construct , while the zohar functions more like a receptor that stores the power
I'm still not exactly sure what that light at the end of future redeemed is. For me personally I think it's more likely to be the White Whale, but other fans think it's KOS-MOS. I'll put it this way if Xenosaga gets remade and has some pretty big retcons the latter could be very likely. As it stands now though Xenosaga and Xenoblade's lores are pretty different from each other and even the name drop of Dimitri Yuriev makes no sense since he wasn't alive on Lost Jerusalem, he's hundreds of years old not thousands when Xenosaga take place. Xenoblade X's lore is quite different as well, heck it also contradicts Xenosaga which doesn't have any aliens at all, but it has actual references to Xenoblade 1 in it whether or not those are cheeky nods or are actually relevant when we eventually get a DE or X2. Put simply I like the theorizing, but I'm curious what Monolith will actually do with that light. Heck we could all be wrong and it's a hint at Xenoblade 4 instead.
This whole thing kind of reads like you didn't watch the totally normal conversation about a radio video he put out shortly after fr launched, or possibly just forgot a lot of what he was talking about there. Either way I highly recommend it as even if he's wrong entirely that video provides a lot of the assumptions he makes in this one.
@@phillipnough2978 I did. I just don't want people getting their hopes up too high because the light is KOS-MOS theory is a bit too overhyped. Xenosaga and Xenoblade's lore's don't really match up either so who knows if they'll retcon them or not. Then again I really shouldn't complain too much about a theory video. I probably should just let people have fun speculating instead of being the stick in the mud I usually am.
There's one very simple counterproof to the idea that the light is the white whale, and that's just to look at the sky in X. Mira has 5 moons, one of which takes up an entire cardinal direction, and all of which are pretty heavily spread out. The fact we see none in that shot is definitely not a good sign for it being real. Granted, in my case I'm not super receptive to the theory anyway since I think X's story would likely work better unconnected, but I still don't think that the light could realistically be said to be the white whale.
@@SacrificAbominat I personally don't think it's that over hyped because of the radio scene and the quote about future redeemed telling us the future of the xeno series. I won't be fully onboard with it until xenosaga remake is announced personally, but I also never played the saga games originally. I know people who have a spot in their hearts for saga are going through something different right now than I am, but my hopes are for a solid next entry regardless of who makes an appearance.
@@3XHS In this case the KOS-MOS theory has the same problem. Earth doesn't have a ring like Xenosaga 3's ending shows. X is mostly connected to Xenoblade 1 by cheeky references to Frontier Village and Homs made by Tatsu as well as a reference to the Monado in one of the sidequests. There are also some landmarks that look like parts of the Bionis and Mechonis. The rings in Oblivia definitely feel like they could have come from the latter. Those haven't been confirmed either though. So at this point unless they add more references to X's DE, X2, or retcon Xenosaga I think all of these aren't connected to each other and the light is more likely to be a nod towards Xenoblade 4 instead. Then again some people think instead of KOS-MOS it might be Elma coming to warn earth of the war coming their way. Who knows what Monolith is cooking with a tease like this to be honest.
Considering how close those worlds remained together, the lack of planitairy rotation, and the lack of a moon or sun at some point in the background, or the consistent light in the FR post credits, i'm gonna assume it was real time
spoilers below the read more ooof on the no time dilation thoery and that would be so sad , also an idea that I always chuckel at , how are the saga characters going to react to the 'new' Earthlines, I really hope blade happened in a time dilated space just so we'd get to see Allens reacton to the Nopon
Sorry, I'm going to have to sit this one out. I've only just recently beaten the first Xenosaga and I intend to play through the next two. But, here's a like and a comment for the algorithm.
Have you discussed Rex and Shulk in FR regarding who or what they are? When you take N as a reference point, he meets M has a kid who grows to be a grandfather whos grandson meets a 30 to 40s ish Rex and Shulk. Rex and Shulk also seem quite torn on spilling the beans to what are clearly their kids and yet they dont. Glimmer as a Japanese name is the mix of Pyra and Mythras name looking like Pneuma and with each generation last 10 years it seems to me that its just the reincarnation of both of a mix of Pyra and Mythras kids Bringing it back to Rex and Shulk in the ending and their ultimate decision. I dont think they are the "real" Rex and Shulk i think they are just reborn possibly as the product of A or Z or even Pyra and Mythra. Even at the end of XB3 Nia and Melia seem to talk to themselves about seeing everyone again. Just some thoughts flapping about in my head since i finished the game.
I didn't get to play the Xenogear series as I came in with Xenoblade 2 but... do they not have cryostasus in that universe? Wouldn't the ship be able to just put the members into cryo and then wake them up hundreds/thousands of years later like in X?
14:40 not to be confused with The Origin from Dragalia Lost, who is a giant white dragon with crimson wings, and one of two creators of the Dragalia Lost multiverse.
Since the First anniversary with fractured futures, when the concept of alternate timelines get introduced. It then gets expanded on in the main story (and in the Fire emblem crossovers) becoming the central focus towards the last arc of the story.
@@Unoj151 Huh, I was there for both of those things and I somehow had that pass me by. Odd. I stopped after the P5 crossover though so I didn't get to see that last bit.
@@nicodalusong149 Its probably because in those events its more implied and its not really the focus of the story (plus in fractured futures they treat alternate timelines as time travel at first, we only learn later that they are parallel universes, and you dont actually travel trough time). In the Fire emblem crossovers they talk about the Fire emblem heroes world and the dragalia one connecting in the past before the event , and during the second crossover the party use a parallel world, that is almost identincal to theirs, to find Alfonse. The focus about the multiverse start properly in the main story during the progenitor/origin arc, that was after some time the persona event. If im not mistaken it was around chapter 22/23 (also some events/characters stories treated that concept both before and after that chapters). Damn i miss dragalia..
If blade truely does connect to saga and its not just call backs. What is the conduit? Is it just another connection to the upper domain? Does Udo have his waves in many pies? Or is it maybe an echo of the real zohar left after the accident? Or did they find a damn cache of zohars in Kenya?
So I think the world basically split in two and went quantum realm for a while in almost simulation-like worlds, where emotions/feelings or whatever have more direct power to change the world, and I think humanity had to rediscover itself repeatedly in that simulation purgatory thingy until it could pop back into existence in normal space. Or maybe thats too ambiguous/philosophical, what I described is basically just Buddhism, since it has those themes all over the place in this, and psychology
XENOSAGA SPOILERS the only thing i'll add about the shion/kosmos stuff that you mentioned around 20:00 is that xenosaga ends with some huge tragedies so it's almost in line that, especially with shion's fatal condition, they just never reunite
man I am so hopeful everyone is right and they are going to either remaster or port the Xenosaga series to modern consoles. The chance to play them instead on PS2 would be a dream. Especially with how expensive 3 is now.
honestly the best way to have these franchises both respected is to have them only have loose ties and connections. like the implication they had the same origin on Earth is cool and Kosmos as a blade is fun, but I don't see a neat way to fit the stories together that makes people happy. I'd rather see new stuff from Xenoblade than move back into a different franchise tbh
I like that Luxin compared to plenty of other fan theorists in various fandoms likes to judge the theories from a theme-driven lens rather than a plot-driven lens. Which is especially with Japanese media as there’s more driven narratives on on “character + theme” more than the North American focus on “character + plotline”. A theory might be plausible given the cards of items provided, but just like the non-time dialation theory, if it works against the message of story you can be assured under a good writer it will at most be a false outcome to counter the true outcome.
I don't think contradicting the storyline is very "good writer"-like either and that happens a lot with writing that cares about themes more than anything. It's kinda like the trinity processor, it obviously would be better to have all three, even if two of them alone might also work.
![Eminem - Temporary (feat. Skylar Grey) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZaK9Wi5ho0o/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Limbus Company - PV] Chapter.7 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VUpkXPkvoxU/mqdefault.jpg)
The key is the bloodline of Noah and Mio, since it will eventually lead to Matthew, who will prevent the collapse through the sheer power of beans
"I still get to take a W... or half-W. I take a V"
If someone ever makes a Luxin Out of Context video that needs to be there lol
A V is still a Victory
Half of a W, pronounced double-U, is a.... V
@@Justicetom21or U since half a double U is a single U
Still a firm believer that the two world combined immediately after being reformed. The worlds themselves wanted to recombine, but their composition was incompatible. After Origin activated, the two worlds were made of the same stuff and were compatible to recombine properly. The people didn’t do anything, it was the will of the worlds themselves.
considering xc3's ending it seems very quick
Obviously. Origin doesn't have the ability to TRULY STOP the collision of worlds, as the main reason Origin existed in the first fucking place is because the beings of both worlds wanted to exist AFTER the collision. After Z died, Aionios, which was a fake world amalgam created by Origin after stopping Time, separated after the Origin restarted, as Aionios isn't a proper fusion of universes but is in a space-time that's happening moments before the Real Annihilation event, which will destroy both universes and create a new one, then the main purpose of Origin comes in, via Terraforming the reality of that new planet with all the information stored inside it, and starting again fron the previous save state (Ending Noah seeing the Clock Tower ring after Time moved again). Which is also why Ending Noah recognized the Flute music and instead of looking for the fireworks, he proceeds to look for the source of the Music instead.
adult mio speaks after the post credit scene. They couldn’t have formed immediately after, especially given that adult mios memories and feelings of Noah are fading away.
@@Luma_64 i think the adult mio is just moments before the worlds return to normal
@@baked7423 I don’t think “moments” but I do think that the worlds remerged when Noah and Mio were in like their early 20’s
Talking about the “key” to saving everything being on reformed Earth while playing X’s “The Key We Lost” was clean AF
....KOS MOS floating in space for all that time, and specifically her color leaving her corpse... could have to do with how she ended up as a blade in XC2. Her consciousness abandoned her body and went somewhere it could be more useful until her next true purpose is reached
There is one more thing that Blade has which could be important here regarding the spoilery stuff - Nopon. They simply appeared after Klaus's experiment, and the Archsage is an absurdly powerful entity. It's completely unexplained what they are, where they came from, and why they took form. They're pretty enigmatic, and with Riku doing Riku things in 3 and Future Redeemed, it's entirely possible that they play a much greater role in the future of the series than anyone knows.
But Riku just Riku, common variety Nopon
The more games that pass, the more intriguing a mystery the Nopon become, especially wrt the way Origin handles them in 3 imo. I'd pop off if they were actually the key, it would be AWESOME.
I really don't consider the nopon archsage as having any significance to the canon. The race in general is just a joke to begin with.
the Nopon Archsage is chaos
The Nopon archsage is funny if we assume any relevance, but I'm not so sure about the species itself. The way it all is written out, it genuinely seems like they existed prior to the experiment and we just never saw them during that timeframe out of sheer coincidence, similar to the "new animals" that managed to develop the same across universes and should thus be data accurate.
And X on its own is not really enough to argue in the other direction because this relation is actually backwards, the ancestors of these guys must have been pulled into a dimensional rift as far as we know because they have legends revolving around the existance of the bionis, which...obviously not a thing in X.
11:45 Some unknown key
The key we lost starts playing.
That was really funny.
What song plays before it. Cuz that song was beautiful
@@TainoMoya I don't know for sure but it sounds like a version of maybe tomorrow without lyrics.
Nephelim, Abel, and Chaos staving off the inevitable end of the universe feels really similar to Shulk, Rex and A at the end of Future redeemed. Then you add FR having the big alpha mech fight while xenosaga has the big omega mech fight, FR has a lot of Saga imagery where the end of Saga seems to connect to FR a lot more than just the radio scene.
Alvis was basically chaos from the very beginning, right down to the voice actor.
@@Dharengo do they have the same voice in Japanese
@@darkraioxxx Yes.
If Noah and Mio is more important, THEN REX JUST GOT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT AS MIO'S FATHER. REX JUST KEEPS WINNING.
*Rex, just standing off to the side with an arm around Nia's shoulders*
"We did that."
He is also the ancestor of half of city poeple
@@famillesabot5719 Several people joked about the fact that he's pretty much related to almost every single member of the Future Redeemed party. Either as a Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather, or In-Law 😂
Zanza:"I have no family."
Rex:"I'm adding everyone to my family tree and nobody can stop me!"
@@lpfan4491 It is said that for every person, inevidably, their descendants would either go extinct or include the entire human population. I might dare to believe that our beloved thing-or-three-shower is speedrunning the latter.
Im.surprised you havent commented on how perfectly both the end credits scenes for base game 3 and future redeemed line up perfectly: the worlds intersect as noah hears the flute which def a strong implication the rejoining was almost instantaneous.
Also, are you planning to make any videos about how pneuma and logos got into aionios? I think a lot of ppl are still kind of stumped as to how they got there, esp logos and how N came to wield his power. Keep up the great work!
There's a very interesting detail at the end of Xenoblade 2 that can help explain this - Aion's interface. You can see that both Logos and Pneuma's data winds up being logged in Aion. It is likely that at some point off-screen Rex salvaged the wreckage of Aion which would've contained the data for Logos and Pneuma inside, which explains why we don't see Logos's core crystal despite hints of its presence. Due to all the research on Core Crystals done by Amalthus, odds are you could just transfer the two's data from Aion into parts of the sheath of N's sword and a fresh crystal generated by either Pyra Or Mythra. Does raise the question of how the hell the data didn't get damaged when Aion sank into the ocean, but hey if your everyday typical sank submarine could maintain functionality to a special door and its associated trap then I don't see why a futuristic sci-fi mecha couldn't store the data underwater without damage, especially since said mecha seems to not share the problem others of its make have where it doesnt rely on the Conduit as a power source as shown in the ending of Xenoblade 2.
As for why Rex would do this, good question. I can only assume that if the theories about Pyra and Mythra's memories being wiped like any blade would when reawakened are true that Rex would try to salvage whatever he could find to recover their memories together. As for why he wouldn't also return Pneuma's power, remember that she didn't want that power. Rex being Rex would've respected that since it wasn't needed anymore and would've probably stored it in a generated crystal for safekeeping so nobody would abuse it similar to how Addam stored the third blade away. As for N's sheath, I'm just as clueless as you for why it was made, but the how of its creation makes sense at least.
@@drakath5727 that would be interesting, i just wish it was explored upon more in FR:(
think a more simple explanation is considering origin is memories and souls, like how dannagh desert is present, logos was somehow able to be stored as well specifically memories of him hence why no core crystal shown. Pyra and mythra prob returned to their core crystal when they are assimilated into origin considering we see core crystal like objects are used to store the beings of both worlds. When Z came into existence Nia & melia created weapons to fight back with melia creating Noah's Lucky seven right before she was captured using the souls of important people to forge it while Nia created ouroboros stones as well as the gauntlet with origin metal containing pneuma and a second lucky seven with memories of logos. Obv N got the logos lucky seven as he was originally fighting against moebius and I presume with each incarnation he came to wield it time and time again.
I said memories for logos since I find it hard to believe anything of aion is left but I think pieces of aion apparently surviving is an acceptable second answer as well cuz it's physical objects that we know contained logos data. I presume that was just put into origin as well maybe not rex purposely searching for them but kinda paralleling to shulk he just happened to come across them. Maybe even unknowingly it was used as part of origin
@@baked7423 Considering Aion withstood the full power of Pneuma and was still fully functional, it's going to most likely be structurally sound and whole enough after falling into the ocean to contain Logos and Pneuma's data for over a year before being salvaged. Also Logos's core crystal was severely damaged by Rex and Pneuma's data was missing on the Core Crystal as shown during the reawakening of Pyra and Mythra. Only place that data could've persisted was Aion, which was left nigh undamaged by the party no matter what they did.
Either rex had his own motive to salvage Aion and this was a convenient reason the data was obtained so that Tora could input the data into Origin, or Tora tasked Rex and a crew (Probably the same one from the start of the game, for the sake of a narrative tie) to salvage Aion for the express purpose of giving Ontos his role of arbitor back. I personally lean towards the former because there's no way Tora would've known Aion would have backups of Logos and Pneuma's data - the only reason we did is we got to see it from the interface.
Either way, this plan to reunite the trinity processor failed and Ontos lacked input as the consciousnesses behind the data were long gone. If Pyra and Mythra were inside that Core Chip/Core Crystal, They'd be reformed into Pneuma seeing as the data is on that crystal. As a result, Alpha would've had 1/2 of the input required by default and there wouldn't be any need for Matthew to trigger the power manually as it would've only required N to comply.
I never agreed with the idea the XC3 cast mattered less than other parties, they had their major role to olay with breaking the endless now and keeping things moving. My favorite thing about the Xenoblade games is that each party and their stories are connected on the grand scheme and a at the same time on their own, so separate. They have their own worlds, conflicts and stories. I know people wanted that big 3 game crossover in 3's main game, but I'm glad they left it to a minimum and saved it for Future Redeemed, it gave the 3 cast time to shine without out the other titles shining over them. That's how I feel about it at least, coming from someone who was very satisfied with the ambiguous nature of 3's ending (I think the way it was left gave enough space for people to speculate the future for themselves and not everything needs to be tied up in a neat little bow).
Tbh, I don't really understand the topic of conversation anyways. By that logic, the Xenoblade 2 party matters way less than the Xenoblade 1-one because the entirety of 2 was basically about the conduit's power(Both sides of the conflict used it) and Shulk made it indirectly vanish when he killed Zanza, which took 0 participation from Rex and gang. Did people care for the few years since 2 came out? No, infact people were told to stop whining if they pointed it out. Why is the Xenoblade 3 cast treated so diffrently?
@@lpfan4491 I think it's the fact that is the conclusion to this particular overarching story. So in a way I get it, but I love how each cast was so contained in their own stories, it makes them all feel important to their own narratives, all 3 games impacting the saga
I never played Xenosaga so hearing "A land of origin" I lost my shit, Takahashi I fucking KNEEL
Haven't seen the video yet, but from the moment I saw the ending of FR I believed that the worlds "interlinked" thanks to Noah's and Mio's FEELINGS (key word there) and the lights in the center of the two worlds that shine and react to each other represent Noah and Mio
Time dilation is, IMO, one of the easiest things for me to suspend my disbelief for.
Hell, it's a concept we literally KNOW exists due to Aionios being stuck in one point in time, so it's not unlikely to say that the worlds created by the conduit and trinity processor wouldn't already have that.
Anyway almost everything you said lines up with what I thought. The fact that Moebius itself IS tied to humanity's collective unconscious was already setting off alarm bells in my head before the DLC, so I'm almost certain that origin itself will play a key part in... Xenoblade Saga?
I've been checking in so often for new videos just hoping I wasn't missing notifications.
Him: Im gonna spoil the Xenosaga series so don't watch this if you wanna go in blind!
Me: Ha! You really think im gonna understand any of whats about to be said right now. Im still confused about your Radio video.
Me
I whatch the cutsceen because of computer issue with emulation. I am understaning every th... No
An interesting thought is that Noah & Mio’s combining with N & M is something we can call Intralink (like how an Intranet is local, while the Internet is with other groups) - in fact, this is something we’ve seen before, with Mythra & Pyra becoming one identity to access Penuma’s power.
11:46 I see what you did there, I suppose you could say that, they need to find the key they lost.
15:30 Obligatory reminder that the Sammarians appeared at the beginning of time from another universe. If the plan is to outlast the destruction of the universe, then I can try to shoehorn in a Xenoblade X connection and no one can stop me!
More fuel to the fire that Xenoblade X is actually Xenoblade 10, but to be fair the Samaarians being the Xenosaga humanity coming from the previous universe is a connection that makes complete sense. After all, this story never truly ends.
13:18 And the fact that KOS-MOS Refrain is a thing in the lore and implies that somehow Shion, the Professor, and Allen or KOS-MOS Version 3's blueprints got transported back in time alongside the information on how to create Core Crystals (Which, keep in mind, were created to repair those harmed by the experiment and to bring about a new cycle of life) in order to make KOS-MOS Refrain which then begs the question how the hell they got back to that point in time in the first place, as well as implant information on Radamanthus inside the core crystal.
Can't wait to see the video explaining how Refrain fits into all this, because Time Shenanigans is the only method that makes sense to me but raises a whole mothership-load of questions with it. Best I can come up with is Eternal Recurrence happened at least once in the past and Wilhelm used information from a previous iteration to create the refrains to monitor the conduit for some unknown purpose and put it in the names of the people who created KOS-MOS Version 3.
ngl i was half expecting your next video post-SMRPG and Star Ocean 2 remake direct being about how now is hte perfect time to remake Xenogears in the 2DHD style
As a Xeno game, it's always possible that they do meet again, but it's in another lifetime
One thing I think that definitely lends credence to the XC1 and XC2 worlds reforming into one within a lifetime is that we know the worlds just picked back up where they left off. Along with this we know that the two halfs of origin were built in preparation for the worlds meeting. This means those of the XC1 and XC2 parties who worked on origin had knowledge about the other world prior to the worlds combining and would still have their knowledge after time resumed. Plus they would still have the means to communicate that we were shown in story with the other world either immediately or when the worlds neared each other in their "orbit" again. So I definitely think the reconnecting of the worlds occurred within the XC3 casts lifespan, presumably as the worlds neared each other however they do in their "orbit" since the work on reconnecting the worlds properly would have been able to resume pretty easily after the end of the endless now.
I'm honestly still confused by rejoining not being the plot FROM THE START. it makes more sense for so many reasons, and it gives Möbius an actual legitimate 'change' to fear. Instead of being obsessed with the status quo _which is exactly what Origin had always planned to do?_
But it was communicated so poorly, perhaps they really knew all along that they would use Origin to survive the annihilation _separately_ and THEN rejoin (since Origin would recreate them as no-longer-incompatible forms of matter). And maybe didn't want to mention that last part in case it didn't work?
@@KairuHakubi I sorta feel like Origin was just step 1 on the process, and more of a patch job than a permanent fix.
It was a solution to the immediate problem of the worlds colliding and annihilating on impact, but it wasn't a permanent one since it's not like the annihilation would be negated if the worlds drifted back together again afterwards (and that's almost a given as there is no longer anything holding them apart).
So in the long run they'd need to actually resolve the problem rather than just holding it off forever, and figuring out a stable interlinking of the two worlds would be an ideal end point for that process. The fact that Ouroboros exist means that there is definitely a starting point for people to go from, assuming that at least some of the key players remember or recover their Aionos memories, and they should have at least 2/3 or the Trinity Processors in play to help resolve it alongside genii on both sides of the split.
@@KairuHakubi i would have to go back and watch some cutscenes again. But I believe I remember something about how mobius interfered during the original process thus causing the endless now.
@@IainDoherty51 But Ouroboros is not a stable interlink at all and does not seem to be a valid lead to start with, staying in the form for too long causes annihilation also.
@@lpfan4491 Aye, but it's not the immediate annihilation that was the impetus behind the creation of Origin, and does show some degree of coexistence is possible.
There have been a number of cases in the past where things seemed far fetched barring very niche scenarios, and after further research or looking into things turned out to be much easier to pull off with a greater degree of understanding. See the Wright Brothers barely staying off the ground for more than a few seconds and contrast that to modern planes that can circumnavigate the globe.
You've got to start somewhere after all :D
A normal sized video from Luxin
Fantastic!
That very last sentence of Kos-Mos having a Tora and Shulk built body just made me think of a whole kinda combat/upgrade system with idea of FR in mind without the whole process of unlock kits
So idea, the whole party I’m going to say is Kos-Mos Shulk, Fiora(with her mecha form), Rex, Poppi, Pyra, Mythra, Pnuema, Nia, Noah, Mio, and their two Ouroboros forms as sorta avatars ala FR but actually more physically manifested as if they did interlink, just cause it kinda fits my whole idea and not for any real lore, story, etc reasons.
So each character can upgrade their weapons possibly through the use of origin metal or some type of new materials now available to the world. This will enhance their weapon’s strength and stats, as well as that weapon’s innate arts and whatever additional things they can do(like Pnuema’s form or smt).
Now for other arts you could get that aren’t innate and are from other ways. I think maybe being unlocked through memories could work, an interesting way to include the previous world or Saga arts and the like, I also think it might kinda work similar to the how the hero system worked where characters essentially also unlocked sorta that characters memories. I think it could also similarly work with upgrading the weapons through the materials like what was for the innate weapons of the party members, since I feel like the materials part could be similarly story related as the characters could be weaken like Kos-Mos or Pyra for some reason due to sustaining the worlds or losing part of themselves or their memories after the merge.
Kinda added story stuff but I just kinda like this system since it’s sorta taking the upgrades of all three worlds, since I think SP could be specific to an affinity system or upgrading their special actions like fusing into a new Pnuema sword so Rex can dual wield it with Nia’s sword, Fiora getting some sorta unleashed mecha form or smt similar to what we kinda see in the game when Mayneth takes control, etc
I will say I think Zanza is pretty explicitly made out to be talking BS claiming he remade the *universe* multiple times seeing as how he literally couldn't without Meyneth, who opposed the idea, which is the whole reason Xenoblade...ya know, happened.
Appreciation post for "The Key We've Lost" being perfectly timed with your discourse
I wonder if the developers had the canonization plan when they were making 2. We know that they had the idea for 3 and made 2 to set it up, so did the idea for 3 include the Saga stuff?
At the very least, there is stuff in the World Tree / Siren model kit that references xenosaga. It makes sense that it would reference xenosaga since it is from xenosage
If they had no plans for a saga-connection, then they wouldn't have put the effort into pushing the entire Kos-mos Re: thing. They would have just called her Kos-mos(The localization doing so does not count) and have her have no relations to prior materials. Compare to the Xenogears connection that is clearly more recent because it was only solidified in 3. 2 only had some vague references to the plotpoint of Deus and its connection to its Zohar.
I just want to say real quick. "We will meet again" doesn't always mean what you'd think. We see plenty of stories were "we will meet again" ends up being bittersweet. Or just straight up bitter. But. That said. I do want to see the saga cast still alive.
Resulted in an unkown key
"Thr keys we've lost" starts playing
origin doesn't reverse anything, it's not undoing anything either. when the worlds separated again, it was more like loading an old save. but because origin is basically a giant computer, the save data for the other worlds are both in origin still. it would probably automatically just reconnect the worlds to their proper state, without the negative effects of aionios or mobius
Yeah, dunno where people get the undo things. All we saw what Origin does is stopping the universe time of xb1 and xb2 worlds(which is implied to be not permanent), reality warping in an area (both Xb1 and 2 worlds are Pocket Universes so it definitely isn't that big compared to the main Xeno world) and Storing Souls. Though apparently it's also so snuffing tough that even the energy released from 2 colliding space-time continuums isn't powerful enough to destroy it.
@@primordiuspendragon1620 Yeah there was a lot of interesting kinda handwaving going on there, the special material it's made of is just so _other_ that it isn't affected by... anything but itself. Including dimensional-shifting stuff. I do love how they find a new way in every Xeno game to give us "the scifi reason that reality works like magic, so certain things can affect it or block its effects purely because they're not that thing"
the conduit could easily have been a remnant of the zohar left behind in 2's universe that the trinity processor kept rooted
That moment when you can't watch anything Xenosaga related because episode III requires you to sell your organs to buy.
Let's Plays
If you look closely at Lucky Seven you can see "Riku say, please emulate Xenosaga" written on it.
Well the conduit was just light so it could of been the zohar projecting itself into the pocket dimension
As a Solution for the Timedialation-Problem could be the Mass of the smaller Plantes in the Pocketdimentions compared to Earth. The smaller the Gravitation, the faster Time moves. I didn't play the Saga Games, but i think they have normal Gravity on they're Space Ships...so there sould be normal Timeflow trough a Massgenerator.
"earth is a very very important place..." Yeah I suppose it is
One part of me would prefer a xenoblade adaptation of xenosaga, more akin to Takahashi's original vision (or atleast the first part of it) allowing them to close plot holes, and resolve whatever was going on in episode 2. Though this would also likely mean we wouldn't be getting post xenoblade 3 content for probably at least 6 or so years, so not exactly ideal. Regardless I'm sure monolith will deliver what they believe to be the best option.
This would be so cool! But I think Monolithsoft is already working on a new IP right now
This just makes me more and more excited for the future of this series, thank you for the great video mister xeno man😌
That's a thought that never occurred yo me that just sounds hilarious lmao Shulk and Tora working to rebuild KOS-MOS just seems funny for some reason
Shion and crew can be in cryo sleep for that time, waiting until their ship gets a signal from KOS-MOS that she has arrived on Earth. Then the ship wakes them up and they can go straight to KOS-MOS’s signal.
Luxin, re: your comment about "how long does it take for things to recombine" around 4:30:
The time between Noah hearing Mio's flute in the ending from when things resume is ABOUT the same time as it takes for the scene where it shows the worlds merge. I think they're +/- a second.
My interpretation after FR and XC3's ending is that they actually recombine rather quickly -- within I think it was 18 seconds of time resuming.
Play it back! You could make a 45 minute video about it. 🙂
No matter how much you read into it, at the end of the day Xenosaga has the most evidence to come back/continue as a reimagining than anything else right now. Takahashi is not one to leave his stories unfinished. He word for word literally gave the plot in Xenoblade 3 via the Moebius song in Xenogears (the japanese version of the ending theme) Like yes he's going to follow up on Xenoblade X one day and finish that universe off but right now it's clear as day it is Xenosaga. There is too much evidence with the radio, the same ending as Xenosaga III, Namco given SPECIAL THANKS in Xenoblade 3's credits not to mention the IP notices in Xenoblade 3 literally have Xenosaga there. Luxin, keep on fighting the good fight and getting word of Xenosaga coming back out there. I imagine Xenosaga was chosen because Monolith Soft could not come to agreement with Square about Xenogears too so while Xenogears got a reference with the Philadelphia class ship, it was only one reference just like another version of Xenoblade X's project exodus. The overwhelming amount of evidence suggests Xenosaga because it has the most things going for it. You just can't call this cute references anymore.
New video as I was rewatching an old video. Well timed!
I’m just glad KOS-MOS is finally coming home. I missed that robot chick.
I’ll still stand by that Future Redeemed is the best DLC campaign to elevate the stakes of the main game. It was crazy.
A key... like the one Alvis used to have before the Trinity Processor inclusion? Origin using Ontos as it's foundation fits with this, too
So, on a related topic, who's up for Poppi and KOS-MOS interactions? Even a in-joke throwaway line by Poppi saying remembers someone who looks like her...or not, if you catch my drift.
Their group had broken the loop and split the world. It's very interesting on what'll happen next in the world of Xenoblade.
I think it's also quite possible that the name origin was chosen as a reference to computer program version control as it serves a very similar function, what with branching universes and merging and whatnot. At least that's what i always assumed the namesake was, but if it also doubles as a reference to that line from chaos... Takahashi do be cooking
I didn't play any game from the Saga series but I would love to see a remake series that connects to the world of Xenoblade chronicles. Your video is a real hype train for the future. Hope you are right - again 🔮🚂💯🍀
Crazy idea here: what if the Conduit disappearing in Xenoblade 2 was a "phase transition event" in which it not only traveled to a different dimension, but a different time as well? Perhaps it traveled so far back in time and to a different universe that it was "discovered" by an ancient people, which in order to contain its unlimited power, contained it in a sort of shell, which is not only why it looks different in Xenossaga, but also why it is called the Zohar instead of the Conduit. The Conduit is its original form, where the Zohar is what it became called. Then, when Wilhelm "sealed" the Zohar, it underwent another "phase transition event" where it was sent to its original timeline whre Klaus could experiment on it. Thus creating a time loop. This would also mean, of course, that Xenoblade and Xenosaga are technically in different universes, one in which the Conduit suddenly appeared on Earth in the 21rst Century and experimented on by Klaus, and the other where the Zohar was discovered in ancient times and then rediscovered by humanity in Kenya in the 21rst century. This would also allow the dev team to connect Xenoblade with Xenosaga while eliminating all the potential plot holes. Each series takes place in a different timeline, but in both timelines the present and future play out similarly but not exactly the same. That's why in Xenosaga, humanity takes off to the stars to escape the Zohar, while in Xenoblade humanity is using the Conduit's power to colonize the stars. Wilhelm is perhaps the same person in both timelines, but born at a different time, which is why the dates don't add up on the radio in Future Redeemed.
Well Bamco did just announce they'll be at anime expo on the 1st to share "Exciting announcements and game reveals" so maybe, juuuuuuuuuuust maybe we'll get a treat of some kind... but maybe not.
I'm still a little confused about the conclusion that Noah and Mio are to thank for the worlds recombining (and reappearing in Saga-verse?). I feel that Melia and Nia are also largely to thank, even if Noah and Mio happen to be the only ones left with memories. That said, it also doesn't really offset my concern that the *other* 3 characters (Lanz, Eunie, Taion and Sena) do feel very irrelevant in the wider narrative, like "bit-players" who don't even really exist anymore as we knew them, even compared to 1's party. That always bothered me more than how Noah and Mio ended up.
As for the Saga connection, one part of the connection that still confuses me: doesn't Saga describe Lost Jerusalem as being in an 'imaginary-number' domain? And in Saga, isn't 'imaginary-number' kind of like, a collective human consciousness/psychology thing rather than a physics thing? (I'm barely familiar with Saga myself, but this is something that came up in conversations I had with Saga fans about FR's ending)
I also feel like chaos calling Lost Jerusalem "the land of origin" doesn't have to mean anything deeper considering Earth is simply where most of society originates in Saga.
i lol'd when i heard "the key we've lost" start playing. great video as always
I believe that the 2 worlds reformed essentially right after due to a something small i saw right after future redeemed was released. if you time the post credit scene of future redeem with the post credit scene from xenoblade 3 at the exact moment the worlds become one it lines up with Noah hearing Mios flute which would seem to imply thats the moment the 2 became one
Bionis world before XC1 = pocket dimension in the imaginary numbers domain, where gods can exist
Bionis world after XC1 = a recreation of the planet in the real numbers domain but on a different plane than Alrest
Alrest = Earth after the incident, real numbers domain, but isolated by the space time anomaly and so isn’t in the normal plane where the rest of the solar system etc is
Aionios = another pocket dimension in the imaginary numbers domain while the real worlds are frozen in time during the intersection of their planes trying to come back together
Post FR world = the planets merged correctly to fully restore the original Earth in the plane where everything else is
This is my theory, and it’s supported by visual cues (the “bubble” around XC1’s endless sea cracking and resulting into the universe around it to be revealed, Reyn mentioning that the water is now salty, the two worlds looking like a transparent swirly thing in space before separating and then rejoining)
Pretty much my thoughts as well.
With the time dilation there was the saga guidebook that mentions dilation of 10000 years to 5000, it does give the incorrectly inverse numbers but that's probably just a mistake in how it was written
With saga having a roughly 5000 year timeline after the 2000s AD, and blades 1-2 having a minimum 10000 year timeline it would fit pretty easily that earth time is twice as long as the time out in space
My only worry for xenoblade 4 is that I really REALLY like the titan setting and an earth setting just sounds plain for the xenoblade series, I'm sure monolith will find a way to make it drop dead gorgeous, maybe the geography changed to look more mythical, but yeah the world being just earth worries me a bit
at this point I doubt we'll just start a game knowing it's that setting, instead it'll have some huge reason it SHOULDN'T be the old rejoined earth, and then the big twist will be "But actually it is." and that might involve finding some giant fossilized being
I'm sure the new earth will be fascinating in some way, and who knows, I mean they've messed with their reality SO hard, kludging together two world systems based on life being generated in weird ways, there could just be some new kind of emerging giants forming from... the heavily mutated descendants of extremely old blades mixing with haienta, causing the "turn into an ars / theresia" DNA to go haywire and make us cool dragons to fight.
But probably it'll just be weird alien worlds. Maybe even spaceborne titans of some kind that travel between planets.
I think Mira shows they can make it work especially with the half a dozen titans and the gargantuan Bionis fusing together, question is how. Heck what if the Titan lifecycle while modified still exists, new titans born wandering the land which when they reach the end of their lives just become one with the land itself.
@@Xeno-The-Wanderer or or what if giant robots. massively giant robots that you walk around on and pilot and go inside and sabotage
I’m pretty sure uncle Takahashi’s got us. I wouldn’t worry too much 😁
I look forward to the KOS-MOS + Poppi scenes in future games.
Here's another idea, one rhat takes into account no time dilation, but also harmonizes Saga + Blade's (+ X's) 2 somewhat similar versions of Earth: Xenoblade's Earth actually could have stemmed from an earlier recurrence, meaning Klaus destroyed the universe but Wilhelm reset it, while Klaus's universe was separate from that recurrence until the events of FR. This also explains why the "Land of Origin" (i.e. Aionios recombined) holds the key to fixing the issue. And the key is very simple to explain: a way to store souls so that they may start over elsewhere. And here's the kicker - this is EXACTLY what Elsa teaches X's Earthers so they can escape before the Ghosts n stuff invade. So yeah: Klaus's Earth destroyed - recurrence occurs sometime, due tk failsafe? (Xenoblade 1-3 unaffected) - Xenosaga's Earth reduced to Planck scale - Perfect Aionios shows up as Earth 3 arguably bringing back the Conduit (Klaus's universe) - Conduit manifests in ending lf XS3 due to chaos calling upon it - KOS-MOS goes back "home" to seek a way to store souls so they can survive recurrence OR bad universes merging (something accomplished in XC3 through Origin). And now things get even more interesting as humanity learned to reincarnate in other bodies, leading to the events of X and perhaps even Xenogears
We see Noah hear or at least remember Mio's flute at the end of base game 3, and notice something offscreen. Since the worlds recombined, it's very likely what that means is that the worlds are merged immediately after Origin finished doing what it was meant to do.
I have a different theory that I think cuts out time dilation (in the strictest sense of the word) without leaving Saga's cast out in the cold- the Blade worlds' pocket dimensions were exempt from Eternal Recurrence. While Wilhelm was resetting the outer world over and over again (the ingame guide for Episode III all but confirms his plans succeeded in multiple previous iterations), Bionis and Alrest kept going on in their secluded worlds, unaffected by the affairs of the "higher" dimension. This could even be used to handwave some of the inconsistencies between Blade lore and Saga lore they're going to have to address. Dimitri being born 4,000 years later in Saga than he apparently was in Blade? Blade Dimitri is from the universe's first iteration. Did Klaus cause the problems that lost Earth, or Grimoire Verum? Both- depending on which iteration you're talking about. If this is the case, it's *really* good that the worlds recombining happened on the same cycle that Shion and company finally broke the loop- had it taken a few thousand more years for the worlds to recombine, Saga may well have been returning to empty space.
Best part of the video is The Key We've Lost playing when Luxin says "key" at 11:45.
Since N says Moebius are the world, and both N & M and Noah and Mio also become part or completely Moebius, would that explain their memories of the world
All this speculative stuff has me excited for the next game in the series to see how it’ll all come together but I feel like it’ll come to nothing other than a few small references instead of a direct continuation of both stories like we all want.
Because games have to appeal to everyone and niche products “don’t sell” they’re not going to explicitly make these connections a big story focus.
It’d be so cool to see a big cool crossover where everything converges but I have a feeling the next game will be largely it’s own story again with characters and references sprinkled in, like how xenoblade 3 ended up…
I think there's a good reason that that would be so niche, we've GOTTEN our big culmination now, we don't really need to take it further. It all ended, we should just let it move forward and have new stuff to care about that doesn't factor in to the backstories of the current world.
Reguarding the second part of the video, there is one part of the alternate theory that I think runs into an issue - the fogbeasts.
Alvis, under Shulk's instruction to create a world without gods, tried to erase himself from existance because he himself had power that made him a god, and failed, becoming Alpha. Alpha is a fogbeast (arguably this is for gameplay purposes, but I think this is for story purposes as well, since fogbeasts are things that shouldn't exist but do... and someone that wasn't fully erased by the power Alvis had at that point sounds like somthing that shouldn't exist as far as reality is concerned), and I suspect that the Fog King is the remenants of a failed attempt by Alpha to erase the Infernal Guldo (suspected to be the remenants of Galea still alive in Alrest) for having a connection to Mayneth and thus being a potential god whose existance conflicted with Alvis's instruction to create a world without them. I don't think it was truly and permanently dead because the Guldo are the quest for immortality gone horribly wrong, and them not even escaping their terrible fate when apparenly destroyed would make sense for really underlining how badly the humans of earth had screwed everything up with that research.
Note that in Future Connected fogbeasts other than the Fog King are so unreal that they need to possess a creature that does exist to do ANYTHING and can be defeated by killing their host, suggesting that the Fog King was closer to being real than any of the other fogbeasts at the time - and specifically and exactly the replica monado (i.e. somthing copying Alvis's reality-altering powers) was required in order to make the Fog King sufficiently real to kill. Also note that Origin - built by reverse-engineering Ontos and thus having its abilities be similar in nature to Alvis and the Monado - spent around 15 Aionios years making non-Alpha fogbeasts more real before Alpha made his move, and that was why Future Redeemed's fogbeasts don't need to possess another creature to do things and can be hurt with any weapon freely. Alpha himself seems to be real enough to do things without needing to be made more real, but needs to possess someone and make them his avatar to do things due to a mixture of aspects of his past as Ontos that weren't erased and the nature of the power he is directly wielding - Zanza appears to have been forced into that position when using said power drawn from Alvis, and his body not being made of fog appears to be because trying to erase yourself with the Conduit fails way sooner than whatever was causing Alvis to fail in erasing the things that became fogbeasts - probably because the paradox of somthing that doesn't exist erasing somthing makes trying to erase youself fail immediatly.
I always though the fog beasts were creatures affected by a miasma caused by the Fog King like radiation or something similar to the Tainted of X
Why exactly would Shulk's wish affect a diffrent world, even if connected? And even then, it is not like there was any attempt to get rid of Pneuma who held similar power, she instead died by sacrifice.
@@lpfan4491 Part of making the world of the Bionis into a world without gods is the removal of all traces of the power of the gods it had - Zanza AND Mayneth. Given that Alvis appears to have been aware of the existance of some form of connection between Zanza and the Architect, it is entirely reasonable to assume Alvis would just assume the existance of one between Mayneth and whatever Galea's body became in Alrest (which is suspected to be the Infernal Guldo) and thus specifically target it for erasure in this process.
It sould also be noted that while it is generally assumed the Architect vanished when Zanza died, the timing of the line between the two games for this is extremely tight (where is the time for the gameplay of the second phase of XC2's boss fight?), and the timing of the vanishing of the Conduit in Alrest (believed to be tied to Shulk's wish being made) makes things even tighter going the other way. If we assume that the Architect's disappearance was caused by Alvis responding to Shulk's wish and trying to fully erase Zanza, both timing issues are resolved. Such an interpretation does conflict with what the Architect said to Malos, but misleading Malos on details by omission when Malos can't check and the part that matters to Malos is true is no weirder than Alvis ommiting details about the situation when Klaus performed his experiment when talking to Shulk.
@@alexstewart9592 So basically "It doesn't work, so let's make stuff up and odds are, they will make it canon". How I love the writingconsistency after the first game...
Honestly, I think the Xenosaga happened before Xenoblade, after one of Wilhelm’s resets, and that the Dimitri is just an alternate Dimitri. Just like the blade Kosmos and T-elos in 2, which we know core crystal are based on the data of the old world, which would mean that Kosmos and T-elos already existed in the past of 2.
In addition, Kosmos in 2, knows how to create the beanstalk, and it’s data from the previous world, before Klaus’ experiment.
In other words alvis away. The trinity processor is key here. Origin will be needed to save everything needed. Alvis or A is the key.
I'm exited to play this I'm downloading the dlc rn, finally
My own theory is that the Conduit and the Zohar are just like the trinity processors, but on a universal scale rather than just for a single planet or realm of space and reality.
So while Pneuma, Logos and Ontos were the custodians of smaller scale events, the Conduit and Zohar are just the next tier up... So i'm speculating that we might see a different object similar to those objects in the next storyline, but with a different "objective" from the Conduit and Zohar, granting whatever power is needed to oversee that new realm.
It might even be the balanced entity, just like Ontos was a middle ground between the male and female persona of Logos and Pneuma, and the reason it was unknown until now, is because it simply couldn't exist until the worlds became "balanced" again, which might be what we see in the post credit scene of FR with the two extremes coming together, which is further symbolized by the initial bitter war between Agnus and Keves, until they fight together as one through Ouroboros.
The way I understand it, when Wilhelm initiates Eternal Recurrence the universe doesn't reset completely, but the subconscious of humanity (not sure how different this is from the Collective Unconscious) builds a steadily increasing rejection of Eternal Recurrence after every cycle. In Xenoblade, it is established that the subconscious of humanity is powerful enough to affect the physical world directly, as Z is a manifestation of the subconscious.
However, what if this subconscious was directed, and directed with the aim to find a solution? Z and Aionios only arose because of Origin. Origin only arose because of Alvis, as the architecture of Origin is based on the Ontos core crystal. Even when the Ontos core crystal was in the Trinity Processor it had a special status. Maybe it even influenced Klaus to build the Trinity Processor itself and initiate the experiment with the ultimate end goal of eventually developing Origin.
There's some speculation as to whether there may be a connection between Alvis/Ontos and chaos. Besides their appearance they both seek to counteract a godlike power that aims to reset the world/universe. If chaos insists that there's a key in the land of origin that is needed to prevent the universe from collapsing, it would make sense that chaos influenced the creation of the key, that maybe Origin is that key, and he may have been directed to create this key by humanity's subconscious after going through enough cycles of Eternal Recurrence. To add to the connection between chaos/Alvis and human subconscious, chaos held the power of Anima, and Anima and Animus reside in the human subconscious in Jungian psychology.
It would make more sense that KOS-MOS would need to go back to Earth/Lost Jerusalem, where Ontos would be after the return of Earth, where the key of Origin would be, and where KOS-MOS would use her power of Animus (as the counterpart to chaos's Anima) together with the key to fulfill humanity's subconscious wish to finally transcend Eternal Recurrence and the destruction of the Universe.
With Saga and Blade being connected, I wonder how they're going to explain the origin of the Nopon
Space can be slow to move on a relative scale, but individually the pieces can still move pretty fast. For example it takes 12 Earth years for Jupiter to rotate around the Sun, and 10 Earth hours to complete a solar day. The fact that Jupiter looked completely static with respect to Earth as the worlds reappeared and then recombined suggests that, while we don't know how long it took for Origin to download the worlds back into Earth's dimension, the time it took for them to recombine after they did would've been fast enough for Jupiter and Earth to hold the same position with respect to each other, so that probably happened in real time.
A lot of people are saying there is a plot hole on how the time doesn’t match up since it’s only been 4,000 years since xenosaga and the klaus experiment while earth has experienced more time. A lot of people don’t realize that in real life that time is different everywhere because of black holes the best explanation is that Xeno saga takes place closer to a black hole and that’s why time has moved slower.
Can someone fact-check me? Are you insinuating the connection of Saga and Blade by: Earth is the beginning, over time, Klaus destroys Earth, causing humanity to leave, making earth Lost Jerusalem. At the end of XC2, the Zohar disappears and ends up in the Xenosaga people hands. The events of future redeemed and 3 takes place restoring earth. Finally, the Xenosaga sends the Zohar back to lost Jerusalem and the cast returns to Earth.
Chaos (Yeshua) Nephilim and Abel Specifically use their holy power To Send the Zohar back yes. The Experiment Klaus causes Fucks up the universe, But Wilhelm stops that event before it gets out of hand so His eternal Occurrence doesn't fail. Some of Humanity Probably Leave's before this Due to Political reasons and The war we see in Xenoblade 2s flashback. Earth is restored After xenoblade 3 , Omega from xenosaga (the Artifact that Abel Pilots) is likely defeated at the same time Alpha is in FR. And at some point all we know is Kos-Mos lands on Earth/Lost Jerusalem.
Imagine if the Zohar in xenosaga is actually a replica or the conduite, as The conduite and the zohar are discribe as very different things and also in how they operate, i don't remember the exactly terminology they use but the conduite seems to be more of metaphisical construct , while the zohar functions more like a receptor that stores the power
I'm still not exactly sure what that light at the end of future redeemed is. For me personally I think it's more likely to be the White Whale, but other fans think it's KOS-MOS. I'll put it this way if Xenosaga gets remade and has some pretty big retcons the latter could be very likely. As it stands now though Xenosaga and Xenoblade's lores are pretty different from each other and even the name drop of Dimitri Yuriev makes no sense since he wasn't alive on Lost Jerusalem, he's hundreds of years old not thousands when Xenosaga take place.
Xenoblade X's lore is quite different as well, heck it also contradicts Xenosaga which doesn't have any aliens at all, but it has actual references to Xenoblade 1 in it whether or not those are cheeky nods or are actually relevant when we eventually get a DE or X2. Put simply I like the theorizing, but I'm curious what Monolith will actually do with that light. Heck we could all be wrong and it's a hint at Xenoblade 4 instead.
This whole thing kind of reads like you didn't watch the totally normal conversation about a radio video he put out shortly after fr launched, or possibly just forgot a lot of what he was talking about there. Either way I highly recommend it as even if he's wrong entirely that video provides a lot of the assumptions he makes in this one.
@@phillipnough2978 I did. I just don't want people getting their hopes up too high because the light is KOS-MOS theory is a bit too overhyped. Xenosaga and Xenoblade's lore's don't really match up either so who knows if they'll retcon them or not.
Then again I really shouldn't complain too much about a theory video. I probably should just let people have fun speculating instead of being the stick in the mud I usually am.
There's one very simple counterproof to the idea that the light is the white whale, and that's just to look at the sky in X. Mira has 5 moons, one of which takes up an entire cardinal direction, and all of which are pretty heavily spread out. The fact we see none in that shot is definitely not a good sign for it being real.
Granted, in my case I'm not super receptive to the theory anyway since I think X's story would likely work better unconnected, but I still don't think that the light could realistically be said to be the white whale.
@@SacrificAbominat I personally don't think it's that over hyped because of the radio scene and the quote about future redeemed telling us the future of the xeno series. I won't be fully onboard with it until xenosaga remake is announced personally, but I also never played the saga games originally. I know people who have a spot in their hearts for saga are going through something different right now than I am, but my hopes are for a solid next entry regardless of who makes an appearance.
@@3XHS In this case the KOS-MOS theory has the same problem. Earth doesn't have a ring like Xenosaga 3's ending shows.
X is mostly connected to Xenoblade 1 by cheeky references to Frontier Village and Homs made by Tatsu as well as a reference to the Monado in one of the sidequests. There are also some landmarks that look like parts of the Bionis and Mechonis. The rings in Oblivia definitely feel like they could have come from the latter. Those haven't been confirmed either though.
So at this point unless they add more references to X's DE, X2, or retcon Xenosaga I think all of these aren't connected to each other and the light is more likely to be a nod towards Xenoblade 4 instead.
Then again some people think instead of KOS-MOS it might be Elma coming to warn earth of the war coming their way. Who knows what Monolith is cooking with a tease like this to be honest.
Considering how close those worlds remained together, the lack of planitairy rotation, and the lack of a moon or sun at some point in the background, or the consistent light in the FR post credits, i'm gonna assume it was real time
Just reached the end of Xenoblade 3 and wow what a game, fantastic stuff.
Hmmm what if this plan of chaos is to make earth a vessel that serves as an Ark to go into a new universe… an ark called Mira.
spoilers below the read more
ooof on the no time dilation thoery and that would be so sad , also an idea that I always chuckel at , how are the saga characters going to react to the 'new' Earthlines, I really hope blade happened in a time dilated space just so we'd get to see Allens reacton to the Nopon
Sorry, I'm going to have to sit this one out. I've only just recently beaten the first Xenosaga and I intend to play through the next two. But, here's a like and a comment for the algorithm.
Have you discussed Rex and Shulk in FR regarding who or what they are?
When you take N as a reference point, he meets M has a kid who grows to be a grandfather whos grandson meets a 30 to 40s ish Rex and Shulk.
Rex and Shulk also seem quite torn on spilling the beans to what are clearly their kids and yet they dont. Glimmer as a Japanese name is the mix of Pyra and Mythras name looking like Pneuma and with each generation last 10 years it seems to me that its just the reincarnation of both of a mix of Pyra and Mythras kids
Bringing it back to Rex and Shulk in the ending and their ultimate decision. I dont think they are the "real" Rex and Shulk i think they are just reborn possibly as the product of A or Z or even Pyra and Mythra. Even at the end of XB3 Nia and Melia seem to talk to themselves about seeing everyone again.
Just some thoughts flapping about in my head since i finished the game.
It's possible to be A
@famillesabot5719 yeah I'm 90% sure it was A
I didn't get to play the Xenogear series as I came in with Xenoblade 2 but... do they not have cryostasus in that universe? Wouldn't the ship be able to just put the members into cryo and then wake them up hundreds/thousands of years later like in X?
If this is the case, I think that Noah and Mio would be the most important blade characters
14:40 not to be confused with The Origin from Dragalia Lost, who is a giant white dragon with crimson wings, and one of two creators of the Dragalia Lost multiverse.
Man, I'm so out of the loop with Dragalia Lost's lore. There's a multiverse? What chapter was that a thing?
Since the First anniversary with fractured futures, when the concept of alternate timelines get introduced. It then gets expanded on in the main story (and in the Fire emblem crossovers) becoming the central focus towards the last arc of the story.
@@Unoj151 Huh, I was there for both of those things and I somehow had that pass me by. Odd. I stopped after the P5 crossover though so I didn't get to see that last bit.
@@nicodalusong149 Its probably because in those events its more implied and its not really the focus of the story (plus in fractured futures they treat alternate timelines as time travel at first, we only learn later that they are parallel universes, and you dont actually travel trough time). In the Fire emblem crossovers they talk about the Fire emblem heroes world and the dragalia one connecting in the past before the event , and during the second crossover the party use a parallel world, that is almost identincal to theirs, to find Alfonse. The focus about the multiverse start properly in the main story during the progenitor/origin arc, that was after some time the persona event. If im not mistaken it was around chapter 22/23 (also some events/characters stories treated that concept both before and after that chapters). Damn i miss dragalia..
If blade truely does connect to saga and its not just call backs. What is the conduit? Is it just another connection to the upper domain?
Does Udo have his waves in many pies? Or is it maybe an echo of the real zohar left after the accident?
Or did they find a damn cache of zohars in Kenya?
To be responsible and skip this video so I can experience Xenosaga blind vs. I really love Noah & Mio and a Luxin video about them is the perfect fuel
Xenosaga is holding me back from the community involvement bad rn bro 😂
this is so funny. thank u but also im in a puddle of tears
This is the meatier thing that Lanz was wanting
New Luxin, who up.
Oh no, another video that I want to watch but cannot because Xenosaga spoilers :'(((( I can't wait for the day the remasters are annouced Dx
I can't wait for xenoblade saga!
So I think the world basically split in two and went quantum realm for a while in almost simulation-like worlds, where emotions/feelings or whatever have more direct power to change the world, and I think humanity had to rediscover itself repeatedly in that simulation purgatory thingy until it could pop back into existence in normal space. Or maybe thats too ambiguous/philosophical, what I described is basically just Buddhism, since it has those themes all over the place in this, and psychology
XENOSAGA SPOILERS
the only thing i'll add about the shion/kosmos stuff that you mentioned around 20:00 is that xenosaga ends with some huge tragedies so it's almost in line that, especially with shion's fatal condition, they just never reunite
i cannot believe you played "the key we've lost" at the point where you mention a key
man I am so hopeful everyone is right and they are going to either remaster or port the Xenosaga series to modern consoles. The chance to play them instead on PS2 would be a dream. Especially with how expensive 3 is now.
honestly the best way to have these franchises both respected is to have them only have loose ties and connections. like the implication they had the same origin on Earth is cool and Kosmos as a blade is fun, but I don't see a neat way to fit the stories together that makes people happy. I'd rather see new stuff from Xenoblade than move back into a different franchise tbh
Xenoblade 4 going to pop off like no other Xeno game!
I like that Luxin compared to plenty of other fan theorists in various fandoms likes to judge the theories from a theme-driven lens rather than a plot-driven lens. Which is especially with Japanese media as there’s more driven narratives on on “character + theme” more than the North American focus on “character + plotline”. A theory might be plausible given the cards of items provided, but just like the non-time dialation theory, if it works against the message of story you can be assured under a good writer it will at most be a false outcome to counter the true outcome.
I don't think contradicting the storyline is very "good writer"-like either and that happens a lot with writing that cares about themes more than anything. It's kinda like the trinity processor, it obviously would be better to have all three, even if two of them alone might also work.