Gentrification, FIRE, And The Ethics Of Being A Landlord
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2023
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Chelsea is joined by Jamila Souffrant of Journey To Launch, discussing changing social classes, the effects of gentrification, and how to be a part of your community while still building wealth.
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I love the point about social privilege being a financial privilege as well. I saw a post that said, "The only real parenting hack is having grandparents close by," and it is so accurate. I am not sure how I could afford to have my kid without my mother watching her. The childcare would wreck the budget.
Question I get alot "why do you only have one 1 child?" My reply, "It's all we could afford".
I know right? When on earth are we going to accept that it takes a village?
@@denicesilva9962
Show them vaush debate with Andrew
It absolutely does. My kids are 8 and 5 and I used to have a mom who could help out from time to time, but she died 2 years ago, and there IS a difference.
It’s fascinating to me that a lot of people rage about the lack of transparency where housing is concerned, yet turn on those who are open.
Being upset about someone not disclosing they had financial support in purchasing property I get. But I’m shocked to see some of the reactions to her sharing the fact her mother helped her with her downpayment. Taking into context her and her mom’s upbringing and situation, that is simply not the same as highly privileged millennials getting help from their rich parents.
Exactly, like people don't know how to process their own frustration. Her mom is literally a migrant.
It's like they hear help and they get tunnel vision. It's honestly not this lady's fault others didn't/don't have the support she had, nor is she or her family responsible for other people's upbringing, current situation or the economy. Even though she acknowledged she was "lucky" IMO that's the normal storyline for a lot of migrants and their children getting out of poverty and building "wealth". Not one of them came from wealth, that was literally her mom's savings and her mom and grandma probably worked ridiculously long hours doing really shitty, thankless jobs in order to put that money aside. Jamila then put it into something that probably brings in more money than the pittance of interest rates that the banks gives out for storing your money. I wish them all the best in life.
@@TamGood and it sounded like she had a deadbeat dad and grandpa.
@@ShawnPatton-rm2hv Yea cause I don't think she even mentioned them but rightfully so if they were absent. If he is alive, I hope the "dad" don't come to her when he gets up in age or sick asking for help, you know how they can be🙄never lifted a finger to help you or showed that they cared about you when you were young but want to come back in the picture, with a laundry list of "reasons for/why" when they see that you are doing good and especially if you've have made name for yourself. Tale as old as time.😒
I don't know if anybody is mad that she got help per se, but if you're going to peddle advice about how to achieve financial independence, "get a family member to give you money" isn't useful advice to a ton of people and it feels like a scam to tell them they can achieve it too.
Very interesting interview. As a Jamaican immigrant living in NYC, it was interesting to hear the interviewee's journey. I was, however, disappointed to hear her say towards the end that there is nothing you can do about structural issues, so you might as well achieve what you can in your own life. I totally reject this view. There may not be much you can do about tragedies in far away places, but there is much one can do to help change things right at home. If we take New York as an example, there are a lot of tenants rights, housing justice, and anti-gentrification organizations to plug into. Why not help expand rent stabilization protections, work towards rent roll-backs, vacancy taxes, and fight for social housing with these groups? The issue isn't that there are too many people in the city, it's that the city and state governments are captured by developers and corporate landlords and it warps all policy. That's a hard nut to crack, but everyone should be applying pressure to it where they can.
You explained this very well, thank you!
Exactly. More like it's in the too hard basket.
The conversation towards the end reminded me of a comment I heard previously, and maybe it was on this channel, that generational wealth is more than money or assets. The thought processes, the conversations, and the network of people is at least half the value.
Having the money is what gives you those connections and mindsets and access to those conversations in the first place.
This is where having an interviewer who is part of the community would help. Immigrants, by in large, access wealth via real estate. It's not special or rare that a first gen immigrant bought property and has become a serial landlord. That's what immigrants do, specifically from the Caribbean and Eastern Europe.
Geez the title of her book is so good, but after this interview I'm not convinced that any of the advice in it could actually help me
I don't get why all the hate. People don't see the sacrifice of Jamila's story because she was on the receiving end, but look at the story from her mother's and grandmother's perspective. This is their story of how they helped to build generational wealth for their granddaughter/daughter. It took 3 generations of savy, family-centered women to build a financially-stable life for their family in a new country. Sure some luck was thrown in, but they were ready when luck opened the door because of Jamila's diligent saving, their joint social capital, and Jamila's mother's financial sacrifice of giving up her SAVINGS for Jamila to purchase a home before her.
Luck is in the timing of the puchase, but it is rude to say it was only luck when I'm sure it must have been very finacially painful for her mother to refuse moving to the US earlier, to consistently send her child to centers for community exposure, and then to finally give up her savings so her daughter could purchase a house.
It's frustating to see people discount this achievement just because it's shared.
Even though she wasn't wealthy, she still had help from her mom and she bought a property at the right time (pre 2008 financial crisis).
🎯
Yeah I appreciated this talk but when she said her friends didn’t take advantage of the moment and buy right out of college I cringed. Like, wonder why
But she was in NYC, and it sounds like her mom didn't own to help her. That's different from generational homeowners giving kids savings from not having a mortgage to pay for at least 10 years or they rent out their vacation homes or whatever
edit: And she called herself lucky for being able to buy in 2008, implying that her friends were unlucky. Which is true. I was also unlucky and not in a position to buy at that time
Yeah I think the disappointing thing about her story is that it's not something we can really learn from. She got lucky and had a lot of support from family. It's not repeatable.
People underestimate the value of parental support. Having any level of help is a privilege. In fact, I know of a lot of millennials who went to college and are now needing to support their impoverished parents as they age. I’m one of them..:feels like an unfair system.
I loved this convo but it did make me feel discouraged when it comes to reaching my goal of homeownership and wealth. She had help from her mom and bought at the right time. I don't have parents that can help me and we all know what the housing market looks like. I can't help but feel like this dream is just out of reach for me
I appreciate that she mentions that multiple times that not everyone is going to be able to but that she is trying to reach the few that it may be possible for that come from the neighborhoods they are talking about. I enjoyed the podcast but it's not applicable to me either. My parents are already dead and I have never had family support and am only now going to college at near 40 so it's way too late for me but it was already too late because my autism not being address as a child really set me up for failure and poverty without external support. I have a better hold now and am finally getting it together and hope I can set my own son up for a better chance since getting him diagnosed is how I found out about my own diagnosis. I have always worked hard at low income to provide for him more than my parents did for me so hopefully he can have more of a chance but I doubt it with the coming collapse. Either way the time will pass so I'll keep going with what I have I guess. I know you are probably trying your best and I think you should appreciate that about yourself even you don't get to the income level you dream of. I understand the pain of knowing it might just be out of reach but I commented to say I see your pain and I respect your experience and I wish you the best.
Best way to move up the property ladder is move overseas to a lower income country where you can leverage the US dollar.
People don’t realize having financially supportive family/parents is a privilege.
@@jessicaj8083yep, it's a massive blind spot for people who have supportive, stable families, even when they are aware of their privilege in other areas such as race or class.
It might not be an option in the way that she achieved it, but that doesn’t mean the opportunity will never present itself to you ❤ Keep the faith and prepare yourself for the opportunity
I’m a fan of both creators/change makers in this space. However, I was expecting more on the “ethics of being a landlord.” I was hoping to learn how one can do this (step by step), but I didn’t get that.
But Jamila’s drive to achieve more for herself and family was well received. Her experiences of being associated with different networks of income classes was one I could relate to. It’s what I’m currently experiencing so it was refreshing to hear how she navigates that for herself.
She pretty much admitted that she couldn't figure a way to do it without becoming part of the problem, and did it anyway, so it doesn't give me a lot of hope for ethical passive income 🤷 "There are not two ways of becoming a millionaire"
I'm not really coming away from this interview with much. I guess you build wealth ethically by getting lucky when buying a property in 2008 and then renting it out for "less than you could"? This isn't very insightful or actionable. Not inspired to read this book.
47:40 😂 “Why not just order it?”
We asked our dad when we were kids “Can you please pull more money out of the machine?” (the ATM) 😂😂😂 We did not understand either
It was an interesting interview, but the keywords in the title don't relate much. The gentrification fits maybe a bit.
Every landlord I’ve ever met gives that same line of “I could charge WAY more than I do”.
I call bullshit unless you really show your work.
I'd agree with you usually. However, since her tenant won't see it, I'm liable to believe her.
I felt like the interviewer was fishing for what that actually means when she said “what is enough” but the question was dodged. I would like to hear “I charge x% below market rate and have a policy of not raising rent by more than x% per year” or some other hard numbers. Without that, this interview, for the topics advertised, was pointless. There were some interesting points but nothing that I clicked in for.
People will miss small landlords as corporate options continue to dominate the space. Corporate landlords charging just to apply, and requiring a certain credit score, first and last rent plus deposit fees and high monthly rent.
Rich people saying they’re not rich is such a pet peeve. Obviously there are different levels to it but if you can take a year off work, own multiple properties, and go to Disneyland then you’re rich. It’s not necessarily a bad thing.
It depends if you approach it as a set income level (eg. Over 500K net worth is rich) or by perception (what feels rich). These are two very different things for both rich people and poor people. I know people who might be rich by income level but don’t feel this way cause they don’t have the generational wealth that people around them do. I also know people who are poor by net worth yet they feel they are well off compared to their peers. Who are we to tell others if they are rich or poor?
@@BioBioLove
"Who are we to tell others if they are rich or poor?"
"tell" them in some moralistic judgmental way.. not really.
but to state facts about lifestyle costs and long turn financial outcomes... um... yeah... that's the entire job of actuaries.
our credit score system in america is exactly that. i disagree that a corporation should have the authority to denote value on to people. they do so to devalue people and empower corporations. it is fuel for the fire of this capitilisthellscape.
but a community can absolutely discuss the distribution of resources amongst themselves. and to do so we need to discuss what wealth means.
( IMO wealth discussions usually miss the mark on the quality of discussion, but that's not the argument here.)
absolutely. moral judgements simply because someone is "rich" is nonsense. a persons actions with the privileges that riches/wealth afford these people, that's what makes all the difference.
the cop out of "i feel rich in family" is a way to skirt the question presented in her interview.
"i find my worthiness outside of money" ... um... yeah... it is part of the capitalist disease when people feel their worth is tied to money. this does not negate the realities of needing money to survive. people not-so-simply need to not tie morality with cold-hard-cash.
we too often misplace blame for our judgements:
push it on "wealth" when it should be on the actions of the wealthy
push it on brands/"corporations" when it it should be the actions of the BOARDS of these corporations
push it on the poor when it should be on the systems around them that do everything in there power to leverage wealth out target populations.
I love this conversation, centering around the theme of generational wealth, and improving systems and positions over the long term. We can't eradicate the "landlord" problem overnight, and we can't expect wealth inequality to evaporate within our lifetimes. Good on her for taking an opportunity and making the most of it while still upholding family and community values. A POC woman landlord who isn't lowering the tenant's quality of life or causing harm could be a step in the right direction. We are all implicated in capitalism, yet some of us are steering us in better directions.
I agree. I appreciated how she navigated a challenging conversation and highlighted the privilege of time ownership.
There didn't seem to be anything of substance to make her wealth more "ethical". She basically said she isself aware of her role in this capitalist hellscape, and oh well. She gave the same finance bro talking points of "instilling the grind" into her kids, not helping her family but "teaching them to fish", and avoiding giving a solid answer about how much wealth she actually has and what that lifestyle is. She sounded like the same old "enough is never enough". It felt like Chelsea was trying to be as unconfrontational as possible regarding ethos and practices we've heard her rail against before
She was lucky to live at home then be able to attend a good college, graduate and have a huge job market to land in without moving away. I grew up in a rural area I’ve moved multiple times for opportunities. It’s takes time to re-establish yourself in a new area. Things are better now but it’s hard getting a interview for a position when your not a local candidate.
this conversation seemed to me a bit of two privileged and wealthy women trying to convince themselves they are lucky but they kinda deserve it, and also capitalism is bad but we do our best. These conversations become very exhausting when they start sounding like excuses or justifications. It would be better to move a bit away from the personal sometimes and focus on more big picture stuff, and I am sure two smart and inteligent women can talk about social inequality and the housing crisis without having to discuss their privilege every 30 seconds
Sadly that is TFD's main audience: women who are already upper middle class+ or are well on their way to becoming that.
@@orangejuiceyyy and honestly, I think that's fine, but then why try to justify or excuse away your privilege every minute? I don't care if the speaker is lucky or fair or whatever, I am not a moral judge. But I would imagine that a landlord who seems to care about social justice could share more strategies about how to combat inequalities or the cost of gentrification in her childhood community and how to fix it. The tiring thing is that, every time she starts building an argument, it comes with 100 excuses for privilege this and that. It's exhausting.
@@guigui-chan I agree but also I know it’s bc if they don’t they will be hounded in the comments. Even with all of the disclaimers there are still sooo many comments about how privileged they are and all the ways the commenter is not
One thing we can do as renters is be more picky about who we rent from. I’ve decided to give my rent money to working families instead of big rental management companies. It feels like a little thing that I can do to make renting feel more ethical.
This is only possible in some housing climates, in Sydney, the rental market is crazy and you can't be the choosey one as hundreds of people are attending each viewing!
Renters should be aware that this can turn into a risky situation quickly - the ethical consideration is great but be safe and rent from someone who you can TRUST
I'd love to do that, but sometimes these working families are discriminatory towards tenants like me, and the bigger companies are where I get access. If we really want to bring ethics to housing, we need to address the history of housing discrimination
it's a privilege for renters to be picky...most have to take what they can afford
"im an ethical landlord cus i could be charging even more than i already am" is not ethical at all.. you are still part of the problem...
Exactly!!!
Landlords will always exist. Personally, I would rather be a landlord than a renter. Sure, it’s problematic but you’d choose the same smh
I really need people to let go of the self-made myth. It’s an impossible standard that no one really achieves. Not even the host of this show.
Most if not all rely on their community to build wealth.
Amen. Any wealth I made in my life was thanks to may parents for immigrating, for providing me with a car at 18 and I still wear most of the clothes they spent money on growing up, my sister for making sacrifices for me, friends foe emotionally supporting me and sometimes providing me with housing. And even the money I get paid, SOMEBODY ALWAYS PAYS ME to get money in my hand. If you are an employee, you do not just "work and money comes". Somebody gives it to you. You could work and get....no money. Even if you own a business, you getting paid is not always garunteed, and you cannot run a business without funds. You have money because you have clients willing to work for you and employees willing to take a load off of you. ALL the wealth we build is thanks to EVERYONE else around us.
@@Pomagranite167 PREACH
So proud of you sis!!!! Thank you for always being an incredible role model ❤
👏👏👏👏more of this!!
Housing just can’t be any other investment. Netherlands has a rule where landlords can increase the rent by 2% + inflation rate. More countries need this. Even with this rent is high and unaffordable for many.
The US has the same rule in some areas. It is called rent contol, and its applied to older construction before 1967.
This is my favorite interview (and interviewee) thus far on TFD! I’m going to rewatch this many times to make sure I can glean every possible nugget of wisdom from it. I also love Jamila’s stance on being an ethical landlord and deciding that working with people and having good tenants is far more valuable than simply making more money. 💜 Thank you Chelsea for such insightful questions!! Wow, what a valuable resource you both are!!!
Regarding building wealth in an ethical way, I'd love to see a video on investing in financial products, such as ETFs, in an ethical way. I wouldn't want my savings to directly or indirectly support companies or organisations that exploit people or the planet. There are lots of different SEG labels and sometimes it's quite surprising which companies are listed in an SEG index fund, for example
Look at amanda holden or dumpster doggy's content for that. She regaularly is featured on this channel, and she has a lot of great info regarding investing. And ethical investing. Note: there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but she gives you whatever tools she can to make more mindful choices.
The problem is, according to more extreme leftists, is that it isn’t possible to build wealth ethically in a capitalist society. So their only solution is to push for a different system completely, I.e. socialism.
But yeah, fuck that. I actually want to be wealthy and free.
This interview was a bit rough. 1) I worry that Chelsea asked Jamila the wrong questions here. Jamila is not an ethicist, does not seem interested in the ethics or sociology of capitalism, and I'm not sure why these questions were posed to her. 2) On gentrification: let's look at those residents who cannot afford to buy in the neighborhood they grew up. Where should they go? Where should they buy? Presumably, to another neighborhood that is more affordable, where they will be pricing out local residents, yes? 3) This interview grappled with the morality of engaging in capitalism, but neither party seems to have articulated a stance here. I agree with Chelsea's politics but I think she has not ever confronted the value of capitalism, the good of it, and that comes across here -- ironic given this channel's mission. Is it immoral to participate in capitalism? Is it immoral to be self-interested? Is it wrong to take advantage of an unequal system?
Chelsea seems to outwardly despise capitalism but she said on tiktok she's pulling in $200K this year thanks to her book etc. Seems to be working for her.
@@BRBRidingMyHorse
tldr: just some thoughts.
my understanding is that she is an ex-libertarian. i doubt her position on capitalism. i can imagine those libertarian cogs still turning in her head. core beliefs are had to remove, they often just get caveats and exceptions that make it seem like the change is more substantial than it is.
IMO, pulling 200k isn't the issue, what is done with that money is the issue.
of course we will in a capitalist-hellscape and we have to look after ourselves before we help others, that's first responder 101.
capital / assets / a war chest , is absolutely needed on the left. i do not think this channel is the vanguard in any sense.
well stated. thank you
I mean chelsea also probably wants to have nice things, and a purpose. Nice things require money and she isnt interested in working for someone else, clearly. And she can pursue her purpose through her work and projects. She is a democratic socialist, and the things she stands for on this platform do match that ideology. Yes, she wrote a book. Why shouldn't she? And yes she's making money from it. Should she be giving it out for free? She paid $33,000 TO PUBLISH AND MARKET AND PRODUCE IT. That was NOT FREE. So she should see a return on her investment. Everyone else charges for their books. The only books that are free are political manifestos and religious books. This was a romantic novel. It's not changing the world. It's a book for leisurely reading. Her husband supported her financially when her company began, and while she was pouring herself into this book, probably leaned on him a lot emotionally as well. I am sure he is HAPPY to see return on the investment he made into his wife during this time.
Chelsea deserves to brag about making money from a book. Not many ppl do! But her channel and company still does SO MUCH to battle capitalism, even though she knows her success only happened because of it. At the end of the day tho, if you hate to see her profit, STOP WATCHING HER CONTENT. STOP GIVING HER AD MONEY. You all are also participating in capitalism. Whether you like it or not, you do because you have to. And so does she. Difference here is a she has a platform and uses it to speak out while also still trying to get an important, empowering message out there, while still trying to be profitable so she can keep the message going and to keep supporting all the ppl she employs. And she has drive. Y'all are just self-righteous bums who wanna teach everyone about life and ethics when you contibute so little to the world except with your little internet comments.
@@Pomagranite167
"SO MUCH to battle capitalism, "
... um.. no
"if you hate to see her profit, "
.... who said this?
"Y'all are just self-righteous bums who wanna teach everyone about life and ethics when you contibute so little to the world except with your little internet comments."
woah buddy.... a little too excited there .....
don't make assumptions about whose a "bum" and "contibute so little ".
maybe read the @coneil72 and my previous comment again with less of a defensive lens for chelsea.
@BRBRidingMyHorse ... their comment was probably misplaced criticism as to "200k", as if that is any level of real wealth. mostly because it was just a soundbite of a comment and not a fully explained idea. soundbites without context often sound overly critical when they really aren;t.
---
so ... check yourself before you back a big'old post huffing about some perceived transgression for what can only be described as a parasocial relationship with chelsea.
Why don't you do rapid fire questions at the end anymore?
People hate landlords because the exploitation is more visible and personal. Meanwhile, shareholder corporations are way more predatory of the workers and clients. People are all like 'Landlords don't contribute productively' but buy and burn fossil fuel that is net negative for everyone. The problem of landlords has existed since the Roman Empire, which is why I think about it multiple times a day.
How is shareholder exploitation worse? Landlordship is a threat of homelessness to all renters for the sake of profit.
@@tomcmustangsay that to a shareholder of a pharmaceutical company of insulin or another life saving medicine
@@michaelbryan7989 That's not a problem inherent to the system of shareholding (TBC I'm not defending shareholding) it's a problem relating to profit driven medicine. Which is in fact evil and arguably worse than landlordship. Which, like, yeah, end capitalism will unwind both profit seeking medical industry and landlordship.
That being said, idk how valuable a conversation about which is worse is.
@@tomcmustang it’s only a point to say that both of these problems exist bc of shareholder and systemic pressure to prioritize profits above all else. to say you can have ethical shareholding/landlordship is to go against the current incentives that are in place which isn’t impossible but it’s certainly challenging and rare
Starting a career before you get married and married before you have children is a game changer. Also having hope and faith that you can make progress and have success is maybe the most important.
Thank you for this conversation!!!
I love this so inspiring and relatable ❤
Love this cross over!!🎉
really liked this episode! would love to see more guests of diverse backgrounds like jamila. I hope TFC continues to move in this direction!!
tbh i don't think anyone can be an ethical landlord. It's just varying degrees of worseness- the scale going from megacorporate faceless entities who scalp people, to a normal person who has more than one property that they can rent out. I think there will always be renters by choice, and these people would be better off not giving their money to a megacorp. but when there's people who want to buy a home but can't because there's other people with 2+ homes that are airbnbs or rentals, that isn't fair either is it?
I loved this episode!
I’m on minute 25. Does she say how much she rents it for versus how much she could rent it for? To see the true ethicality of her business.
She didn’t - and while this isn’t something to expect, it would’ve added so much context to this topic. By not doing so, I feel like it missed the point on being an ethical landlord. I’m conflicted with ppl’s mixed feelings on this interview bc I see both sides.
yes, more about ethical wealth building. loved this. would love more about it. esp in investing
Hahaha I mentioned my appreciation for TFD's approach on this specific subject to Chelsea on her book tour last week 🥰
This woman rocks! I really appreciate the way she looks at things.
This is a very honest and real conversation.
The access to information and the social circle can be so much useful than money. The lack of the information is what gives generational poverty its leg up. I read so much of people who talk down on people whose behavior is a reflection of them not growing up with knowledge that comes so easily to someone who has build wealth.
This discussion overlooks an extremely important concept - economic rent. When someone purchases land, and then that land/location goes up in value due to the development of the surrounding location, that value increase is economic rent. It is created by the community as a whole, but is taken by the landowner. In this case, Jamila bought a property, the local surrounding area was developed by the community as a whole, and that value increase then became her personal wealth. This is not capitalism, it is a form of monopoly. It is not 'investment', as nothing new is created. In economic terms, it is a 'placement'. The economist Henry George explained all this in his book Progress and Poverty. That value increase should rightly be shared with the community as a land value levy.
Favorite episode of TFC yet!! Such a great conversation.
is landlordship REALLY " building wealth for oneself"? or is it skimming the cream?
Sooo have your mom give you money and become a landlord to build wealth. Yeah it's harder for women of color to do that but it's essentially the same old story. Get given money, buy property, have it go up in value and rent it out. Is being a friendly and understanding landlord really ethical or just common decency?
The guest and the women in her life do work very hard but if her mom wasn't able to save money at all and pass it to her daughter then she wouldn't have made it on the podcast.
Agreed. TFD hates “nepobabies” and often rails against them, but all of the answers to how she bought real estate and how she can afford three kids is , “my Mom and Grandma”. They should have interviewed her Mom.
This lady is so raw and real- tidally admire her! Middle sucks- I want to be rich… no kids though
Why would a person rent out a house they invested in if they weren't getting paid?
An episode about building wealth ethically….with a landlord?! Chelsea. Baby. Noooooooooo.
Pssh, I’m sure anyone here would rent out a property for extra income if given the opportunity. You can’t take the moral high ground here unless you’ve actively rejected such an opportunity.
Your journey to financial freedom Step 1: live at home so you can save up.
It's interesting how she's done all of the things with values that Chelsea listed as happening once ppl have children.
This ain’t no “rags to riches” story, she was privileged and lucky in many ways and she refuses to acknowledge it because she’s a Jamaican immigrant (and it’s supposedly “harder” for all immigrants). I’m tired of this poor immigrant narrative when most of them don’t come in that position, they lean into this narrative to push bootstrapping. she doesn’t understand the levels of poverty at least in America.
Thank you for this comment! I’m SO tired of immigrants pushing how they “work harder than Americans” and deserve more than those born here because we’re “lazy.” It’s such a farce and I’m glad someone’s actually bringing it up!
Yeah there are different types of immigrants here in Australia, for example "boat people" who come here with absolutely nothing having spent all their money to get a spot on the boat, versus a lot of (for example) Indian and East Asian immigrants who come here with money and rapidly buy up property. It's not an equal status and it needs to be recognised and acknowledged.
It’s good to be rich!
It’s good to do what’s best for yourself.
Oh please!! 🙄
You can be ethical by locking your rent at 30% or lower of median income for the zipcode. If that is too high for the area you know you need to sell the property, if it's too low you know you own in a morally corrupt area and should sell. And if roi is ever below 10% of the cash out value for that year you know you should sell.
This (capping rent at 30% of median income) is an interesting concept and one of the first concrete suggestions I’ve seen around ethical landlording.
It’s always better to have a good renter vs more money!
It is not possible to be an ethical landlord. In any city.
I'm confused. Chelsea often espouses many leftist viewpoints e.g. Housing is a human right, Tax the rich, Landlords shouldn't be a thing, You can't personal finance your way out of poverty, etc etc, yet she keeps having guests on who basically stand for the opposite of that, and she doesn't grill them very hard, she platforms them so they can talk for an hour about themselves and promote their own version of bootstraps capitalism and their personal brand.
It seems like this channel has a pretty big conflict between Chelsea's beliefs and this channel essentially being a platform for unrealistic financial advice. I always appreciate the editorial videos but these interviews feel like cash grabs.
I don't get it. Is this just what she has to do to make money? Sincerely wondering bc I really love Chelsea's viewpoints and don't get why she has these types of people on the channel.
I hear you and agree, but I imagine it’s hard to find a lot of relevant left wing people to interview. I mean I can’t imagine that there is an overwhelming amount of landlords who think housing is a human right. She is probably stuck with who she can get.
@@owlegrad this was my thought as well - there probably aren’t a ton of anti-capitalist people in the finance space for interviews
I don't mind because it's good to see these types challenged on their values or force to explain it past empty slogans. They are also the vast majority in the personal finance industry.
But yeah, it's sobering, but definitely a slice of the North American mindset.
I find that tension kind of interesting (and agree with other commenter above that it’s interesting to see people have their perspectives challenged).
I think overall Chelsea handles these interviews well. I imagine she doesn’t totally know what direction interviews might take, and then has to try to navigate it.
All that being said, I would definitely love a larger percentage of interviews with people who are focused on intentional financial habits and decisions who are also interested in questioning system, policies, and structures.
Devils advocate and to engage in challenging conversation…
there is no ethical way to be a landlord because the very nature of being one is exploitative and wage theft. you are taking income from someone else's labor to pay for the the property or your own bills, hence "passive income." and most of the time, they aren't even putting that money back into the property, because they take forever to respond to issues and when they do, they are finding the cheapest possible solution so their profits aren't hurt. housing is a human right -- the government should be subsidizing/providing this for us.
now if we're going to talk about landlords not being absolute dicks while operating in this system of "wealth building," that's a different story
totally agree; and, maybe unrelated, but I think this also strikes at the difference between generating passive income/wealth building through real estate investment and wealth building through investing in the stock market
Labor is not the only thing you pay for though. Renting is a form of service that can be valuable. Property ownership involves significant work and costs. Transaction costs in buying/selling property is high too and avoiding that cost is preferable for many working people. Its not wage theft. Its a cost. Also, if you say people have a right to housing, do you have a right to particular housing? can the Government then say that you have to live a certain place instead of where you do? Sounds dystopic.
@@General8675 we can't have this convo bc if you don't think that housing is a fundamental right and instead just a "cost" then we are not operating in the same framework. Nowhere in my comment did I say the government should decide where you live - you're thinking of what the government already does with low-income people, which is give them shitty housing in shitty areas where they have income limits in order to even qualify to stay there. (Not all states are like this tho; I live in WA where the government subsidized housing for low income folks is pretty good depending on where you live.)
I'm giving no credence to the business of real estate, which it sounds like you have some vested interest in. We have to imagine another world where housing is just available to people and living in a specific area is a choice out of desire and not necessity based on income. And, where purchasing a home is a feasible reality for everyone.
There's no such thing as a "human right" when for those rights require you to use the government power in order to steal resources from someone else, because last time I checked, the government doesn't have a magic wand that it uses to make houses appear out of thin air!
I grew up on a reservation where the government does provide housing to some. The homes as built were nicer than the house I grew up in and better than current house in the same area. They degrade pretty quickly not due to craftsmanship or materials and there is pretty universal resentment. I do not know the initial quality of housing provided in cities, but they seem pretty universally hated as well and most places moved away from that with it being considered a failure.
I do believe there should be a quality floor where people do not have to worry about shelter, having food, or standard healthcare. It could just be the framing, but as presented, I think there are more problems than solutions with the government providing this. Maybe something more akin to habitat for humanity's model.
I disagree with this woman’s values and understanding of “participation” in capitalism-she is describing conspiracy, not participation, as she is a capitalist (participation is simply engaging in the economy, not necessarily accumulating capital from it)-nevertheless I appreciate Chelsea’s challenging questions!
Rent extraction is gross and exploitative
We need food even more than we need housing...According to your logic, are the farm workers and owners exploiting you as well?
Imagine calling yourself “ethical” just because you don’t take advantage of people as much as someone else. Disappointing. If anything, this interview just reinforced that you almost always have to compromise your own personal morals to build wealth.
I am so conflicted by this - is building wealth moral or ethical? Is there a form of wealth accumulation that is ethical? I love that we are having conversations about this.
It is not ethical, never was. But i also accept that i can either play the game, change the system, or do nothing but mope. I have chosen that the 3rd is no longer an option for me. I will be playing the game. And while I start getting better at playing the game, I can use my newfound money and power to try making a change. Bc I am aware only money and power actually gets things to change here. So I may as well get on it. Do something for my own damn self because I WOULD like to be comfortable, if for no other reason than I don't want to be a financial burden to ANYONE, not my family, my parents, friends, or a partner. So I will have to do the unethical work. And while I do it, do my part in trying to undo the system. Sitting around and complaining tho? That will lead us ALL nowhere.
Having to survive is not a choice, but how you choose to spend your money IS. I am not a money hoarder. I WILL help ppl if I am in a financial position to do so. I have done it before. I currently am not, but I do look forward to spreading my wealth again when I have it again. If being righteous means you always complain about how you dont have any nice things in life and you are a financial burden to others because you are "so above wealth building", i'm okay not being righteous for now.
You're not going to improve the world by opting out and sitting in a corner and complaining about it. Go participate in the system: advocate and work for the well being of others while doing it. Better is good. Purists hold back pragmatic improvements to systems far too often in the United States and that not only prevents small steps that makes things better, it literally can be deadly.
The worst part is this glosses over rental roi is lower in ALL 10+ year sets of data compared to total market or sp500 total return after taxes. This is encouraging people to BUY without a mention of the SELL that you need to time perfectly somewhere between 3 years and 9 years after purchase...yikes. I guess anti-capitalists are just subconsciously desiring control of a monopoly.
@@ang5035 It used to be possible to build wealth ethically, when pensions still existed, because you could work an actual job and retire in comfort.
It sounds like she discovered there's no ethical consumption under capitalism and decided to become a vampire. Really doesn't answer the premise of the video, unless the answer is "you can't".
Not sure what the purpose of this conversation is, or how it's helpful for the average person who didn't buy property at the right time.
Interviews like this are so funny (as is this channel on the whole tbh). It’s like all the guilt of being rich combined with all the virtue signaling of being woke.
Fascinating stuff.
It always comes down to being a landlord and exploiting the working class at the end of the day
If your only plan for childcare is to exploit the aging parents who already raised YOU, you cant afford to have kids. I'm glad Chelsea is including a childfree lens in these conversations and I'm glad that this guest at least was able to compensate the family member who served as her proverbial "village."
Seeing grandparents taking care of their own grandchildren as exploitation is a very western viewpoint. In a lot of other cultures it is very normal to have multigenerational households where grandparents do help with childcare.
This is an incredibly Western, individualist take. Childfree may be the right choice for some but to perpetuate the idea that anything outside of a nuclear family structure is exploitation is a reach. So much of what we’re afflicted with in the US is a result of our capitalist culture and what it prescribes as “right”. Yes, it’s not right to exclusively rely on aging parents. But also, so many old folks in the US are devalued & forgotten by society and their own families as soon as their working potential dries up, so what is definitively an exploitative culture, anyway? It’s subjective.
I’m childfree but that’s wild to throw out exploitation! There’s lots of families who want to grow in general and support each other and create a strong network and are totally happy to do so… I think it’s healthy for everyone involved if they’re up to it. They touched on this in Blue Zones!
What is wrong with you? Most parents are always begging for grandchildren and those parents deserve to be involved in their granchildrens lives. They WANT to be there. And many of them LOVE it. And the joy of being a granparents is often their payment back to raising ungrateful children. Lol what a stupid ass hot take.
If my sister had a baby, I would be her village. Happily. For free. That's my neice/nephew. I will happily support my family with whatever time and love I have.
You are clearly childfree and obviously, the idea of granchildren would bother u, bc u dont even want kids. Most ppl who have kids like kids and want kids and love kids and would love grandkids as well.
Had to stop watching at 9:40. The main reason being - she received financial help from her Mother! Not that many ppl have access to parents/support systems that can loan/grant them money for property. Hell, some of us are our parents retirement and medical financial plan. Also, the intro, you said she worked in Equity. I mean, what's the total percentage of Americans that work in equity or stable and lucrative jobs? Last I checked, isn't precarious employment the new norm - largely thanks to the tech Bros and their minions? She mentions her grandmother bought a few Brown stones decades ago (I'm assuming this lady is in her early 40s) - clearly her mother will inherent those properties, which will eventually passed down to your guest. Clearly, I see why her mother wasn't in a haste to buy more properties - all things granted, the gran doesn't sell her brown stones ofc.
So no, her "rags to riches" story doesn't stick due to an important element that made it possible - her supportive family system. How many people can boast of a supportive family with access to grandparents that can help raise the children for FREE, while the parents work and save up? Please consider who your audience are as it seems this conversation was one for those who already have access to these resources.
Her mom didn't own so she could help her. In places like NYC, it's more expensive to own than rent. That's _not_ the same as getting support from your parents because they could save more since they inherited property or a business.
You're talking about generational wealth when she distinctly said she's a first generation Jamaican immigrant. Her mom went without so she could have, she wasn't giving from an overflowing basket.
And btw, immigrants from Jamaica _don't_ tend to be "landed gentry" either.
She doesn't deny or downplay the importance of having her mother's support and being an opportunist (ie, right place, right time). She acknowledges that her mother took an opportunity when she came to the states, and as a result was able to support her daughter. one of the undercurrents of the conversations is generational welath and passing down the "wealth" of choice/options to the next generation. We see this all the time with parents -- they want to give their children the best possible outcomes they can with their money. Unfortunately, some parents aren't in the position to do so with their children, or don't want to do that with their children. I found Chelsea's observation about the parental "switch" very on point.
@@-natmac because my time is finite and I have personal agency to do with my time, whatever I want? Tf? Let me take a wild guess - you're probably one of the people with the bed of resources to bask on - which explains why you felt so entitled to question me about how I choose to use my personal time? Should I indeed be correct, shouldn't you be using your time to sort through your parents will/estate, rather than trolling strangers on the internet? Ah, right - you've probably got a lawyer at hand to do all your leg work or better yet, your mummy and daddy carries your entire adult weight - assuming your not under 18)? 🤣
@@everythingispolitics6526 I literally suggested an episode that seems more aligned with what you’re interested in seeing and you felt the need to respond so childishly? You are mad at a stranger over a bunch of shit you made up…
the topic of privilege comes up a lot in this interview. i don't think jamila is privileged, she's driven. she owns and rents out one studio apartment, not even a whole building. yes, it's absolutely possible to be an ethical landlord! jamila thought outside the box, bought what she could afford, held onto it so she has a backup plan, and rents it out for additional income. this is what it looks like when somebody who's smart and good at math decides to make the most with what she has. in the recent past, owning a home was normal and accessible, not some lofty pipe dream. the reality is we live in a capitalist system. many people can't afford to buy property and somebody else has to own the property that they need to live. not only does somebody have to own that property but manage and take care of it, which can be a full-time job or even a job-creator for a team of full-time managers and maintenance workers who all need jobs to live. landlords who are law abiding, respect tenants' rights, provide equal opportunity, have empathy, understanding, and real care for their tenants, charge the most affordable price they can for rent, protect tenants from security issues, respond to maintenance requests promptly and take excellent care of the buildings they own are ethical landlords. people who have this "us and them" mentality on class hate "them" so much it becomes a mindset that keeps them and others in their communities from achieving more. people who want to be upwardly mobile can't let the "us" people keep them down. they don't want more for their communities, they are afraid of failure and they don't want to be left behind.
It's crazy to me that Chelsea (and others) criticize people like Jamila for being a landlord. Give me a break. In any other context they would be applauding a female person of color for being a #boss. I love Jamila and love that she talks about the importance of low-income folks focusing on education from a very young age. Yes, it's complicated. But everyone can do something to help themselves.
No. That doesn’t fit into the victim narrative and victim mentality that is being force-fed to everyone nowadays.
Really though, not to discount her education, but what did it do for her? She made her success after becoming a landlord.
Also, even if being a landlord is the best way to build intergenerational wealth we can still criticize it as evil. Because it is. Landlordship is a gun against the head of renters.
"There is no ethical consumption under capitalism" means you are not ethical either, no matter what you do, as long as it's in the system.
@@tomcmustang What did her education do for her? Come on. Look at anyone who drops out of middle or high school They're not getting a job to even be able to do what she has done. Enjoy being a victim. Not all of us are complacent.
It’s not just being a landlord, it’s taking advantage of your position and exploiting people over something that should be a right. Many landlords are charging 2-3x what their mortgage costs (if it’s not been already paid). Jamila seems to be doing her best and I respect many of her viewpoints but just because someone doesn’t agree with the greed and failure of this system we live in doesn’t mean they’re crying victim. Plz
You’re conflating two unrelated political ideologies. It’s a false dichotomy.
The people who say “#girlboss lets go women of color ownership” are neoliberals
As socialists, democratic socialists, social democrats, etc. we do not believe in (various degrees) of privatization. She is not a “#girlboss” she’s an exploiter
“Housing is a human right “
But that doesn’t mean you get a single family home.
Maybe it means you live in a shared communal space with your private bedroom. Kind of like college dorms.
How does that sound?
IMO gentrification is just another of a million examples of how 8 billion people is just simply too many. almost everywhere is becoming too crowded and people don't want more people to come where they are because they don't like being crowded. we should all support worldwide family planning services as a long term non-violent way to reduce population pressure. the seas are overfished, the topsoil is blowing away from too-intensive farming, the freshwater is getting used up and contaminated, everywhere there is too much garbage and traffic and sprawl and congestion. we need family planning services and a managed population ramp down (and the related good support of having a large aging population). we need to use the superyacht money to help a large aging population age with dignity. everyone find family planning organizations to support! ok rant over.
and imo even colonization and the vikings and desertification of the middle east and genghis khan and the plague and megafauna extinctions every time humans migrated somewhere new....already humans were putting too much pressure on their ecosystems back then and paying the price
woah is this frustrating, the lady is the worst capitalist and has no excuses 🤮
Sick of hearing from people with generational wealth.
She didn’t have generational wealth when she bought her Dumbo property. You misunderstand what that means. If your immigrant parent who toiled in low income jobs to bring you to America gives you some money to help you buy property, that is not called generational wealth, though it did help her to build it. Now though, she has created it. This is a success story, and you’re being a hater.