How is leveling up tracks and placing buildings in weird patterns beautiful and interesting? Except that the buildings are overproduced and double the price of the game....
I don't particularly enjoy Tapestry, but the complaints about it being "unbalanced" are frustrating. No amount of playtesting can match the wealth of data gathered after a game's release. Video games handle this post-launch balancing, and it should be more accepted for board games as well. Kudos to Jamie for his ongoing support and improvements to the game.
I think that it is a treacherous path to go down. On the one hand you are entirely correct that Jamey is to be commended for supporting his games after release. And you are also correct that play testing can only get you so far. On the other hand, I want to know in advance that buying a game means I only get the right to become a play-tester. I’m not saying that is the case with SM games, but I lost interest in playing Scythe (a 2-4 hour game) again, after realising that certain starting combos had significantly higher win-potential.
The problem with Tapestry (and the reason I sold my copy) is because there were only two different tech trees you move up to maximize your points. It was also dubbed a Civilization game, but I never felt any build up or bonus to bring the first to do anything. The factions are unbalanced and the game is just monotonous. Had to let it go
I feel taking the video game industry as an example sort of reinforces the argument rather than to help make your point. The video game standards are abysmal, and everyone agrees, it's not because devs and studios have become greedy lazy fkin clunts in the last 10 years that it's fine and acceptable.
As it seems you are rating both Viticulture including the Tuscany expansion and Wingspan including the Oceania expansion, you should also rate Expeditions including the Gears of Corruption expansion. It is also an essential fix for some of the flaws in the base game and improves it significantly.
I wouldn't say complete fix but it has improved it a lot. Kickstarting the resources, making the map tokens worthwhile and an easier way to pick up corruption tokens are all good. The game is shorter so you should appreciate it would be over quicker :D. My partner complained the game was bone dry and then proceded to beat me comfortably.
Yes, it speeds up the slow start and also allows for way more variety in the gameplay: - The starting resources allow for much earlier exploration - The new map tokens make exploration a better strategy due to the bonus - The hero worker takes away the need to chase workers as the first move and opens other options - The new hero worker also allows to go for the purple cards earlier on So overall, a more diverse set of tactical options at the start of the game. And then there is the corrupted mech module which can be added for some new variety. Plus some other minor additions like new leaders/companions and some new stronger item cards.
Pendulum is my favorite game of all time 😅 I know I’m in the minority by far, but I LOVE it! This is why I’m glad there are thousands of new games every year.
Best: Tapestry is probably the most popular game in my circle with over 50 plays. It is not perfectly balanced but everyone always has a great time comboing their moves regardless of the result. And with all the civs and cards the variety is amazing. We also do love Viticulture but it can end with a somewhat sour feeling in such a tight game when you just dont draw the cards. Worst: Scythe just fell flat for us. Very dry and too competitive. Theme doesnt help that. Pendulum is just a hot mess. No one wants to play literally on the clock.
I don't need the best cards though to do well at Viticulture, though of course it can help. But Tapestry is not a skillful affair. The tapestry cards are woefully unbalanced and can literally win someone the game if a lucky combo arises. The factions themselves already give players either a significant advantage or disadavantage.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I actually enjoy making a weaker Civilization thrive. I sometimes pick them on purpose and see how far i can take it and it often enough works well. Might be how you approach it. None of us particularly cares who wins. We just like the puzzle. Traders with over 300 points is possible. To be fair the alchemists are just unplayable but thats the only civ i know of that never even came close to average scores. And on a side note to Viticulture: I lost more than one game because someone happened to have an additional sell wine action on a blue card.
Tapestry is a lot of fun - oh it has many flaws, but there's always the possibility of a wild points combo. If you accept its a paper thin theme it's just fine. Apiary has been a surprise hit for me, hits a similar wingspan itch in many ways. One of the real baffling things with Stonemaier is the insistence on 5 players (or worse 6) for all their games. How many games genuinely aren't a chore at that player count (maybe there's a video in that)?
It's funny how often my opinions are almost exactly opposite to yours. I'm probably just wrong, and I definitely respect your opinion. This time it wasn't quite opposite to mine, since you liked Scythe and Viticulture (as do I); but I really don't care for Wingspan at all and I love Tapestry. Never tried Pendulum or Expeditions, but now I wonder if I should. Lol. Different strokes.
Viticulture without Tuscany was my intro into modern board games after playing Carcasonne once in a while and it blew my mind at the time. Then I purchased Tuscany and I discovered how much fun and thematic board games could be. Very fun video to watch Luke. I like this format with negative and positive takes. More enjoyable than watching a long rant on a game I understand you didn’t enjoy two minutes in the video. I wish you a great (cool) summer.
I have Wingspan and all expansions and that’s also my favorite. I like Pendulum with 2 players and Tapestry with some house rules. Even though our tastes don’t always line up I always enjoy your descriptions and analysis!
I appreciate your direct discussion and thoughts. You may want to consider being a little less dismissive of what other people enjoy. Some people are not as bothered by down time and want games that play with their regular group of 4-5, don’t mind playing games a game that has been ‘fixed’….certainly that happens a lot with video games, etc. I do like to see the passion you have for what you enjoy, perhaps consider turning it a little down for what you don’t as small things don’t make a game (which many others enjoy a certain way) “garbage.” Thanks.
I strongly disagree with this comment. Luke's refreshing approach comes from his refusal to conform to pressures like these. When watching his reviews, remember that they reflect his personal opinions and perspectives. It's natural for his views to sometimes differ from yours. There's no need to take offense just because your opinions don't align. After all, you didn't create the game, so there's no reason to take his comments personally.
What Daniel said (though he's not taking offense or personally, he's merely offering advice). I get where you're coming from, but your last sentence is the reason why so many creators out there are just saying "everything is amazing" without any credibility behind it. These are just my personal opinions and people are totally free to debate and deny them, it encourages debate.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Fair enough. It is your channel and I have been a long time subscriber as I like many of the games you do too. I just wanted to share some feedback, as in my experience is that there is a world of difference in receptivity between saying "I don't like xxx because..." and "xxx is garbage"...even if the fact that the latter is an opinion is clearly implied. Often people that state opinions as facts start forgetting themselves that it is not in fact, a fact. Anyway I do appreciate your directness and analysis so please take this feedback in the positive spirit it was intended (a very good book on a related topic that I found useful is Radical Candor).
I played a blisteringly fast 3-player game of Expeditions yesterday. The expansion certainly accelerates the game through the slowish first third. Great game.
And I’d rather stab myself in the leg than play Viticulture ever again. I dint understand how someone could rant about Taoestry being unbalanced and then give a free pass to the unbalanced AND swingy Viticulture. Takes all folks I suppose.
Tapestry is not fun to just level up tracks. Yay I got two steps on the military track, if only I could get a step on the science track, that would be so exciting 😅
I don't give Viticulture a pass for its balance issues, it is still a legit flaw of the game. However, I do find that (a) it's exaggerated at times as I've won perfectly fine without them and (b) in the classic vein of SM releasing expansions to fix bad design, the small cards packs are much better to use.
I totally agree on Expeditions and Tapestry. Did not like either, especially expeditions. Played it at a con and was totally bored. I'm not a big Scythe fan though I'd still play it. Viticulture is fun but I got turned off a bit when I won a game or two without ever making wine. Isn't that the point. I currently like Wyrmspan a bit more than Wingspan but it's very close and I have not tried Oceana yet so that might push it back up. I do enjoy Apiary and would most likely rank is just behing the two ...span games right now. Great video.
I regards to games with 5 or 6 players, flexibility can sometimes be nice. My regular game group fluctuates alot, could be anywhere between 4 and 15. Having a variety of games in a variety of player counts, lengths, and weights can be helpful. 🤷🏻♂️
I think there are more appropriate options for 5 and 6 players. I also don't get why someone would seek to play games like these at such high player counts; they become a slog 😵.
Stonemaier introduced their "games as value-added items" philosophy somewhere in the Scythe - Tapestry period, that (and abandoning crowdfunding post Scythe) seems to have been a pivotal moment when their games went downhill. The announcement of the "philosophy" was the point where I stopped buying their games. IIRC it was around this time that EGG did a similar thing, which is why The Gallerist is the last of *their* games that I purchased.
@@npckse8508 well, I have the original (Stronghold) Kanban, so I have no need of the EV version. Besides, there are so many great games out there that I can find games to buy without supporting publishers that I don't like. I can live without any more Lacerda games, that super-heavy Euro field is getting very crowded 🙂
@@TheBrokenMeeple Wow, or, just for a second bear with me, he didn't and it is a great game. Lol your terrible game is another person's great game. Both can be true at the same time without the advent of quantum mechanics :)
Stating the hours is very, very complicated. You want to give the games to several groups and let them play on their own as well, so not all playtesting will be witnessed by someone from the publisher who'd be able to track that time. But yeah, I feel like even though many other games may have balancing issues (Terra Mystica, Great Western Trail, and Agricola, my three favorites, all had changes, new editions, banned cards, etc), Stonemaier Games has a bit too many...
Although it may be difficult to measure the exact hours, a range can be used. E.g. 50 hours, 100 hours, 1000 hours. & Maybe they should state the number of hours play tested on their box so its concrete clear to the buyer & cant be changed as & when eg on the internet. I feel these steps are important as over a period of time, buyers / gamers will have a good sense how ‘reliable’ the specific publisher is stating their hours & more importantly how well tested are their games. I question about play testing hours because With the rush to compete for monies & launch games, many of the recent games dont seem to be ‘rock solid’
Scythe is still my favorite (maybe cause it was one of the first modern board games we purchased), with viticulture (Tuscany) as my number two. Tapestry is still a fav of ours too, but we grab up like 7 civs at the game start and choose from them, cause why not? But the tapestry cards themselves can be very over/ under powered. And I wanted to like pendulum, but it’s not great. Neither is red rising, libertalia, or expeditions. And thanks to your video of apiary, I will not be purchasing that, thus ending our “must buy everything SM” streak. I also loved your top/ worst of Uwe, as he is my fav publisher. Please do one on Shem next, but don’t be too harsh lol. Great videos btw!!!
First, I love this video format. I would like to hear more about liked and hated board games from different publishers. Now, I do like your top three Stonemaier game picks as they are games I like and will play. Now, I do like Tapestry, but will only play it if the game shows up at a table. I have no plans to go buy the game myself. I have not played either Pendulum nor Scythe Expeditions, and will also not hunt them to own them. I will also hold judgement on Wyrmspan until I can get it to the table, but it does hold promise of being a good game.
Yea not aligned. Tapestry has flaws but it's one of my favorite games. It got so many bad reviews I knew I had to try it first. I tried it at a game shop. Immediatly fell in love. Maybe the hype created the wrong expectations. It might not be the best but I disagree it's one of the worst...
The hype didn't help, but even when you get past that you can't forgive how dry it is, how swingy it is and how they took 3 attempts to "fix" the balance and still failed. That can't be forgiven or considered " a flaw under the carpet".
I liked this format. Feels a bit refreshing even though I like top tens as well… would love to hear your thoughts on Red Raven games, since the two I’ve tried has been a miss but everyone is raving about (pun intended) their games.
Spot on when it comes to Tapestry although on the marketing bait and switch you are too kind if anything. They went in hard on the player bases decades long call for a "playable" civ when the most gracious you can call it is civ themed
Yes. Played Tapestry once. My civ's power was not able to be used all game. The guy who won...had a civ power that was able to be used every turn. Can't imagine how he won... Really spoiled the game for my group.
I own viticulture and the Tuscany expansion, and enjoy either the base or with expansion, as long as we ignore the trading wheel which is just too extra for me. Right now I'm in a game on BGA where I have drawn four purple cards requiring red wine and four grape cards all white grapes. 😭
I like this format. Looking forward to more. And I was in total agreement with you, all the way up until you said "Wingspan." At which point a noise of disgust game out of me. 😂 Not that I think it is a terrible game, but there is absolutely nothing special about it, and I will always prefer just about any other game.
cant agree more, Luke me too : Wingspan is the no.1 from Stonemaier i skipped the dragon lol, maybe because of the art i think and the second close is Red Rising 😄, odd but i loving it so much
@@TheBrokenMeeple didn’t really have the problem to begin with but both games have fixed the issues with expansion content. I would definitely suggest giving expeditions another chance with the gears of corruption expansion.
I highly recommend it. The nectar makes playing bigger birds more viable and it's not guaranteed that you're going to swim in nectar. Plus the nectar doesn't keep from round to round.
So when Jamey surveyed Stonemaier ambassadors he found Tapestry was their favourite Stonemaier game - above Wingspan. I play tested the solo mode for Tapestry and gradually fell in love with it and continue to enjoy it more and more every time. It’s not really a civ game - correct - and it’s not balanced but here’s the thing… I just don’t care that it’s not balanced. Now it’s my third fave game of all time after Xia and Glen More 2. It’s probably more balanced than Xia but Xia really doesn’t care about balance. He tried - he amount of play stats captured is huge compared to most games. But stop worrying about balance and do the best you can, and it becomes more and more absorbing. Tapestry is loved as it gets better and better the more you play it. Tapestry is ‘meh’ for some as it requires a good few plays to get hooked, and it’s super swingy. But I’ve realised I care less and less about balance the older I get.
Worst: 3 - Euphoria (not bad. But just meh) 2 - Red Rising 1 - Pendulum Best: 3 - Viticulture - blew my mind when I wasn’t properly into games yet - now it’s a solid above average game. 2 - Scythe - I really like this. Solo is great with the ScytheKick app - though it does annoyingly charge you for the upgrade you don’t want before it’ll let you buy the upgrade you do want. 1 - Tapestry - probably unbalanced - I don’t care, and I love it enough that I bought the upgraded civs. This game is just pure joy for a breezy solo game. I’ve only played multiplayer once, and that was good too - but I don’t think you need other players for this. Wingspan falls firmly in the middle. Not bad by any stretch, but not outstanding in any way.
I really enjoy this new format. Top lists still work for me. Other than Stonemeier Games, I’m meh 🫤 on publishers. Designer top lists? That’s what I’m talking about 👍🏻 Dr. Knizia being my first suggestion. Cheers!
Pretty much spot on for me although I'm still to play wingspan. Years latter and the marketing for Tapestry still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They tapped into the decades long call for a playable civ and provided a civ themed game that should have been obvious needed a lot more playtesting. Jaimie does seem like a super nice guy though
Scythe is the game I wanted to like most. I bought the base game and the first two expansions, but the more I played it, the more I got annoyed by the fact that it's just an efficiency puzzle with little interaction (and almost no economic interaction). I might still try it with the variable map, and maybe with some goal changes from Fenris, but it's gone down a lot in rating for me.
Great video! I like this format. I also like top ten lists but this format is a refreshing mix-up to the standard. Stonemaier is a funny publisher for me. At one point they were my favourite publisher. This was when Red Rising was announced. So, that was my ideal mashup - my favourite publisher in my favourite hobby producing a game about my favourite fandom. But then Red Rising turned out to be just...okay. It wasn't nearly as heavy, thematic, or engaging as I would have liked. I think that's when I began to realize that Stonemaier doesn't make games in the weight class that I most enjoy (and most play) anymore. That being said, I have never disliked a Stonemaier game. I've either loved, liked, or just felt okay about them. My bottom two (can't pick three) would be: Red Rising (just disappointed from how hyped I was) and Wingspan (too simple for my tastes now and the bird theme doesn't really resonate) My top three would be: Scythe (an all-time favourite), Tapestry (love the overproduced buildings and the combo's - mainly play solo), and Expeditions (mainly play solo and I really enjoy the card play/hand management aspects).
So my group likes Red Rising, but we have developed this meta where almost every location on the board ends up empty, especially the fleet track location.
My list: Best: 3. Viticulture with Tuscany, 2. Wingspan. 1. Tapestry (masterpiece with the first two expansions). Honorable mention to Scythe which I have all in but only played once. Worst (none of these are BAD but from the ones I played these are my worst): 3. Libertalia (nothing majorly wrong with it, I just don't feel like playing again, take that elements ruin it). 2. Apiary (hate the theme, unoriginal and unbalanced). 1. Wyrmspan (unnecessary and inferior to the birds).
@@TheBrokenMeeple It's just a fun game to go thru the motions and play it. I think now it's fixed and balanced and the new civs have useful complexity ratings on them. I'm not fan of the latest expansion, ironically I think that's the one that breaks the game a little bit, not because of balancing but other stuff they added. But end of the day it's just a fun game to play. And yes it's probably my most themeless Euros in the collection.
I'd add Apiary to the list of Stonemaier's best games. And Wyrmspan is even better than Wingspan, which I love. I've got my share of Stonemaier duds, including Red Rising and Libertalia.
@@gadgetgeekgirl yeah, I like both games but for different reasons. I wouldn't get out Wyrmspan at the end of a long play day when I only have an hour left, it's too complex for that. But I do love more complex games in general, so Wyrmspan ended up surprising the hell out of me.
The nesting box is obnoxiously large. Much larger than the Scythe legendary box and a poor storage solution (much bigger than it needs to be). I have the big Allplay bag and I can only fit fillers besides the nesting box. You do get another tower, but that's a small win for the price tag.
Do a similar thing on Uwe. Video length is fine. Top 10, only some are interesting, most arent (on any boardgame youtube channel). Id rather watch something like this for sure!
Just started watching this and the next in this series drops 😀. I agree with everything apart from Wingspan which I just don't like either solo or multiplayer, not really sure why, just didn't grab me solo and my family wasn't that interested in it. Btw Luke, don't know how you have your camera setup but just recently I've noticed it's chopping the top of your head off which looks a bit odd.
I have, I think, every product Stonemaier has produced except Wyrmspan (not into remixes), including Pendulum(!), and one thing I've noticed that hasn't changed throughout the company's existance is the poorly thought out insert designs. The company has not improved much here. Remember the Lengendary Box came with a couple of long boxes? Oof! The insert in that Viticulture Wine Crate is a war crime! Wingspan's Nesting Box is full of mind-boggling decisions, like having to separate the deck into multiple holders across multiple levels. I mean, come on! I don't know what's going on down there at Stonemaier headquarters, but some of these choices make me think they harbor a lot of anger towards humans. Apiary was great and reminds me of the Stonemaier golden age, so hopefully that's a sign of a return to greatness.
For me, i just didnt enjoy VITICULTURE (recently sold it with all expansions). I can see why people like it, and as Worker Placement is my favourite mechanic, i assumed it would. But it just hasnt clicked. WINGSPAN is a relaxing game to play, and we do get it to the table a lot, but i can usually tell early, based on the cards i have, if i have a chance of winning. Sometimes its difficult to get a decent engine going. We really enjoy EXPEDITIONS, mostly played at 2, but we had a great 4-player game woth friends a little while ago. Looking forward to adding the expansion soon. ROLLING REALMS is a great Roll 'n' Write, and woth tje amount of card packs we now have, we'll never get bored (though some Realms work better than others). EUPHORIA is a really interesting Worker Placement with a cool dice mechanic, though i still need yo try woth the expansion. And SCYTHE is great, with a memorable win of a 5-player game last year being a gaming highlight for me. I think we're all having a rematch soon, so looking forward to that.
That's just ridiculous - I mean who the hell asked for that. I know why they've done it, they did it just to bulk up the expansion. They realised they can't market the little else it has for that kind of money so do the simple thing and just rehash some old components but change the colour and boom, suddenly there's more value to the expansion.
Two games you dint mention 1. Rolling Realms 2.Euphoria. Appreciate your thoughts on this, agree with some comments and top 3 but not all. But like you say that’s perfectly fine as it’s only a game and different strokes etc 👍🏻
Not actually played Rolling Realms - it didn't stand out to me when I first saw it. Euphoria I grew tired of eventually, it would sit somewhere in the middle.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I quite like the Rolling realms series. It’s super easy to play with anyone really. Non board gamers seem to love the quickness, easy to play and randomly selecting which cards to play with. The variety is vast now, I would recommend checking it out especially when the Redux box is released.
This series is a great idea. I had a falling out with SM games in the last couple of years to the point that I didn't bother trying Apiary (I was even a SM ambassador and champion for a few years). Tapestry was one of the most disappointing game as it was marketed as a CIV game in less than 2 hours when it's civ-themed at best. Red Rising was also disappointing because it didn't capture the story that I loved; still hoping for a Red Rising 4x game someday. I agree Pendulum is the worst. Couldn't finish Charterstone after 5 plays; such a lackluster legacy experience. I agree completely with your assessment of Expeditions. Scythe was a top 3 game for me for a few years but after RoF campaign, I sold everything; the first 2/3 of the game is too much on rails. Wingspan was by replaced Earth; both low-player interaction but Earth plays quicker and I don't care about birds. I still have Viticulture EE with Tuscany and I think that's their best game by far. I am looking forward to trying the new open world game next year tho.
I have played 8/17 stonemaier titles and this would be my ranking: 1. Between Two Castles (excellent drafting and tile placement game, underrated IMO) 2. Rolling Realms (solo has great support and the extra realms provide a ton of variability) Everything from here down is kinda 'meh' for me, I'll play it but not actively suggest it when deciding what to play. 3. Viticulture 4. Red rising 5. Wingspan 6. Between two cities 7. Smitten 8. Scythe (possibly a bit unfair to rank at the bottom but I have only played 3 of 4 times on steam and didn't like it much)
My biggest problem with Tapestry is the frustration with the variable playtime of all players. If you are a bad player at this you‘ll finish the game early and you have to watch the rest of the group playing for 60 or 90 minute before you know that you‘ve lost by 100 points. Not a pleasant experience.
Perhaps not, but an educational one. I saw someone in their first play of Everdell keep their first season going so long, that the other players had finished their game almost 2 seasons ahead. We all learned a lot that day, especially the fact that despite those long turns, that player lost the game.
I've read that and I still dont know how do you do that. I mean, not doubting it, I just cant understand what is the mechanism. But well, Viticulture is for me the game where somehow, if I store my grapes for a year, they get better. Instead of rotting :P
@@jesuscoutofandino6280 One strong opening is going to that space where you sell your fields and sell one or two. The money boosts a lot your game. The rest is basically luck on card draw
@jesuscoutofandino6280 played a game this weekend where the winner only completed one wine order. They got all their points from Summer and winter cards
I did it with a combination of grape making and orange structures that allowed me to utilise those grapes. Certainly it wasn't from the Summer/Winter cards - you would have to be exceedingly lucky for that and I would wonder what the other players were doing points wise.
lol, none of your top 3 are still in my collection (I did expect you to pick those three, though). Wingspan I would still happily play, I just am in the crowd that much prefers Wyrmspan. Not just because I love dragons (had it simply been a reskin, nothing more, I wouldn't have bought it no matter how much I love dragons), but I love the mechanics of it more. Viticulture does have a great worker placement concept, I'm just not a big fan of the point threshold ending. I was on the brink of culling it when the co-op expansion dropped, and that did breathe some life back into it for me since I enjoyed the upgradable worker spots aspect of it. But ultimate it just didn't sustain it enough for me. Scythe is probably the game that had the biggest fall for me, simply because it used to be among my favourites. But over time it has just felt more and more like I was playing the same game over and over again. It did last 16 plays though before I culled it, so that's something at least. Tapestry, however, is still going strong for me. I genuinely don't care that it's not balanced. I have not consulted any of the rebalancing efforts, because I don't need it to have fun with it. It's probably my favourite Stonemaier, though Wyrmspan could surpass it over time. Not tried Pendulum (nor do I really care to, the moment I heard it was real-time, it just went off the radar for me as that's not a mechanism that appeals to me at all) and only played Expeditions once and it was a 5-player game (too many people interested to play it at once), and yeah, I don't really want to play it 5-player ever again, too crowded. I think it could be good at 2, but the chance that I will get to play it at 2 is fairly slim since I'm not interested enough to get my own copy.
Ewww Expeditions at 5 player, not a good start! Normally balance is such a key thing in games yet everyone just ignores it for Tapestry and it's not like there's some really funny gimmick or anything, it's just a bone dry track levelling Euro game, I just don't get it!
@@TheBrokenMeeple in some games you just embrace the chaos. I understand the critisism, absolutely, and I get why that will deter people from it. It just isn't an issue for me. I love the possible combos I can get, I enjoy figuring out how best to make do with what I get. Theme has never really mattered to me (not beyond the art and general look, at least) as I'm mechanically driven anyway, so dry isn't a bad thing for me. The appeal is in the puzzle.
I agree with most of what you say. They just don’t playtest enough with their games. Wyrmspan will die is my view. Just get the Robot competitor version IMO.
About Tapestry, I do own it. I regularly take it to community gaming days as it’s very popular. What sells it, and gets a lot of smiles from people is racing and getting the physical buildings. These win it, for the game. Oh yea, and the two/four page rule book. Otherwise I won’t argue your points about it, but the illusion of what the components do, do do the job,,,, very successfully.
Agree with all your best and worst choices. Own only the best 3. Sat down Expeditions demo at Essen 23 and maybe the teacher wasn’t good but after the demo turns it was straight out boring (dodged a bullet,. Did just buy Wyrmspan cause it was decent price to try and see if can replace my wingspan collection. Hate the art but will try just for mechanisms. Worst i sell and lose like $10aud. As for Stonemarier on the downs, atleast they try each year and help other designers so A+. It is hard to come up with something completely different in boardgames but we can say no two of their games are the same like say compare to Rosenberg. No publisher or designer always has a hit or recent hits. It's like a song artist, you might like their earlier albums but absolutely hate their new stuff (*cough cough* Taylor Swift). The good thing is atleast we can try and move onto the 100s of other new games out there.
Listened to your podcast recently and i agree that most people love every new release and cant admit when a game is bad and that is especially true for Stonemeier gamss. Me? I hate them all except wingspan!
So wrong about Tapestry! My favourite Stonemaier. The balance stuff can be fixed by drawing a couple of tapestry cards on the income turns and choosing one. Also, the pack of ‘fixed’ cigs is available online for free, but just available to purchase if you want the physical copy. Tapestry is also fantastic at 2 players. The main problem with all stonemaier games as far as I can tell, is that they make them all 1-5 players. 5 players doesn’t work for me for almost all of them - scythe, tapestry, wingspan, viticulture, and fake scythe all go horrendously long with 5.
I agree on those best 3, also for me the best (and only) 3 AND in the same order too. The only other I did consider was Expeditions because of the Scythe ART-work. But can I justify this for a game I probably won't play?? And yes, MORE birds NOW. But unlike you I like the Nesting box. I wish I had the Wine crate too.
I also think that Tapestry and Wyrmspan were too hyped. Tapestry was definitely broken from the get-go. They tried to rebalance it a few times, not getting it done still... But at least they tried (booby prize?)
I agree that Wingspan and Viticulture are Stonemaier's two best games, but the fact remains that they are still very average games as far as I'm concerned. 7/10 at most.
Thanks Luke. Always enjoy your vids, honest appraisal and from the heart. Love love viticulture and agree, Tuscany a must. As for Wingspan....errrrmmm.... I got it. I played. I loved it. Then...i realised. Eggs! Eggs!! Just get eggs!! Especially at the end. It became so repetitive and honestly if you played differently...you lost. You mention Oceania "solves" this...sort of. Never played but if does...maybe ok. But honestly...i am giving it away to a friend and not looking back. Such a shame. I love birds too. But, I tried so hard to love it, but couldn't. What's that saying?...if you love something, you gotta let it go and not hold on to it too tight. Well...wingspan...fly fly away. More time for Spirit Island!!😂
Oceania revamps the player boards - the egg action doesn't give you as many eggs and the other 2 actions are slightly better. Plus the addition of Nectar allows for the play of bigger birds.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I bought the expansion and painted the mechs. I only played solo so far. Wouldn’t buy it again. Will give it another try and probably sell it. Greetings from Germany.
Viticulture was probably my biggest let down in board gaming. You talk about imbalance in Tapestry (haven't played it) but Viticulture is very, very imbalanced...the visitors.. OMG. It felt like they added two tiers of cards and just mixed them all. Even small imbalances in the mamas & papas, for example there are two that are very similar, just that the other one is slightly better. I have not played with the expandions tho and I've heard it fixes stuff.
I also don't get the obsession with playing games like these at high player counts. I even don't get why many seek to play them at maximum capacity when most of them work best at 3 😅. I'm not a fan of Scythe, but I do like Expeditions. I don't care if it's not thematic, I like the efficiency puzzle and "engine building" this one presents over Scythe's. Besides, I found Expeditions to be more interactive with others getting in my way constantly. I do like planning routes (and pick up and deliver games), so going from A, to B, to C/D is what I like XD. Tapestry deserves all the flack it gets. Yeah, it's great that the publisher fixes stuff, but it shouldn't become the standard. A few people said that this happens with videogames and that's fine. NO, IT ISN'T! Videogames' standards have plummeted horribly and it's because of that (among other reasons). Besides, it's not the same as a videogame that can be patched easily while someone could be playing a board game without knowing that it IS broken but feel something is wrong.
i like wyrmspan, expeditions, apiary, and euphoria. they are fun to play. i have viticulture and for me its the worst one. my games usually get played at 1 or 2 so that may be why i feel that way. none of these games are in my top 20, but im happy to have the ones i like.
Never liked any of his games and boycotted him after he refused to replace damaged pieces in the scythe game which I then had to sell for a reduced price. I guess he didn’t have the money. Lacerda also on my sh..t list for actually contacting me when I left a poor review on one of his games.
@@TheBrokenMeeple lacerda said I was damaging his reputation, hurting sales, and I should remove the review. That was sent to me through bgg mail. Stenchmeir and I had a very public feud on bgg. I also feuded with that guy who designed evolution. He has the letters CRAP in his last name. Very apt.
I am almost with you here. First, Tapestry is a hit in my group and will likely remain so. Expeditions, despite not being Scythe, has been well-received as well and I am enjoying it. I cannot begin to state how much I don't find Wingspan fun and just don't understand the love. Wyrmspan felt like more of a game and so we have been playing that one, while I sold my Wingspan. Pendulum I still haven't tried playing with others, so perhaps one day. Again, I love your content, but please, consider stopping the pointing out what others are saying game you have been playing. Who cares if Tantrum House loved Expeditions? It doesn't make their opinion invalid or strengthen your opinion one bit. I like your channel because you tend to call it like you see it, but this playing clips from other channels stuff needs to stop.
How can people not like an elegant engine builder with pretty birds but am totally fine with a bone dry track levelling machine with an overproduced pattern builder and broken balance? :P
@@DicepairGames I don't see how you equate "Bone Dry" with theme alone. Makes no sense. "Bone Dry" suggests boring rinse and repeat type of games with no variation. Expeditions has enough different strategic decisions to prevent it from fulling into that category.
@@david6294 Because that's how the term "dry" is used when talking about board games. It's often used along with "euro" because many of them are (or used to be) "themeless". In fact, you can watch minute 4:55 to confirm that he's talking about theme. His previous statements a few seconds before that he's talking about how "mechanical" the game is, too. Look into it and you'll see that that's what it means in board gaming. Don't know its origin, but it's been like that ever since I got into the hobby 😅.
I don't own a single Stonemeier game. Of those I've played, Viticulture I would play again, but I've no desire to own a copy. Criticisms? Yes the Tuscany tweak to action spots felt too close to a 'fix'. I also found the cards remarkably swingy (though not for Stonemeier I suppose🤣), though I could see how visitors from the Rhine would appeal to those even more irritated by the swinginess.
I would totally take Tapestry over Red Rising. Red Rising seems super broken - when you are "finished" with the goals of the game half way through the game and just waiting for it to end, it is not good. I would much prefer Tapestries imbalance to that.
On the player count: it seems to be company policy at Stonemaier that EVERY game they have published can be played with a max player count of at least 5 (many of them up to 6/7). I would not berate them at all for that. It is a free option for us gamers in case ever required (think about large families). Sure, it doesn’t make sense at all times. But I don’t think this should be a negative for any of their games and not worth a lengthy rant.
A game still has to justify extra players. Many publishers simply do this to sell more copies, but probably about 1% of players want to play these games at maximum possible count because the games are never scaled properly to compensate.
I own Viticulture EE+Tuscany EE and Scythe. Thats enough for me to learn my lesson. These are fine games, but I'll pass on the rest based on these. I'll never reach for Viticulture over Agricola. Ill never play Scythe over Hansa Teutonica. Then after playing Earth and hating it, I'm pretty sure I won't like Wingspan.
@@gadgetgeekgirl What's the difference between the two? What makes you favor Wingspan over Earth? I'm not a fan of games with tons of unique cards, and for me Earth just overdid this along with overdoing symbols, text, chaining effects, etc. Every turn we were being told by the game owner that actually this doesn't trigger but that does because it's italicized, or something. The action selection mechanic also takes from Puerto Rico, but removes what makes that system fun...if I can just do what the player before me, or two turns ago did...who cares.
@@EngMadison If card games are not your thing it may not be that wingspan is for you then either. But earth was just too much, engine building was chaotic and there were rarely bad choices in what you selected. It felt like you could have a terrible game and still score over 150 points which is just silly. Wingspan is tighter, you only need to worry about one spatial aspect, and the reducing number actions each round stop it going into madness.
@@gadgetgeekgirl I like card games (San Juan and Fleet are some of my favorite), what I didn't care for was the deck of unique cards and fishing for something that might do something worthwhile. I had a hand full of mushrooms...only to never see another mushroom card again and my combo strategy on that just fell flat. I might try Wingspan if it's a little more focused, that does sound better.
Totally agree with player counts being inflared with a lot of games these days. I dont know where i would rate Scythe. Loved it but now have no interest in playing ever again. Wingspan easily top. Wyrmspan seems a good game but the art is nice but i dont find it interesting.. feel it would have been better as a nature game again.. fish perhaps? Dinosaurs I dunno..
Scythe has been slowly falling for me. It feels on-rails the more I play it; I keep hearing Fenris fixes it. Not sure if/when I'll try it out, though. I half disagree about Tapestry. I do think it was marketed as the next 4x civ game to beat. It definitely doesn't fit that mold, but I actually really enjoy the puzzle it presents. Theme is silly, especially with the inventions, but It is kind of endearing if you don't try to think much about it. My biggest issue is the Tapestry cards. They need to be divided into eras, like Innovation or something... I'll never be tired of Viticulture or Wingspan, they are like visiting old friends with each play. Expeditions, sadly, looked like a boring exercise of a game when I looked at the rules. I'm glad I didn't go for it. Apiary has been a surprise hit, for me. There is nothing new or crazy going on, but it is easy to play and teach new players. Also some fun small combos with some of the hive tiles. The exploration part is easily the weakest part of the game.
Expeditions below Red Rising??? Really? What was behind that rationale (I agree Expeditions is only a 1-3 player game but didn't enjoy Red Rising at any player count)
Red Rising is basically Fantasy Realms (which I really like) but too long and convuluted. At least however i can enjoy the card play a bit with less players not dragging it out. But Red Rising wasn't that hyped. Expeditions was, everyone went crazy for it, even as my clip showed, despite people having issues with it a plenty that are BIG issues, they still gave it high ratings. Expeditions also costs twice as much, has a giant box, takes longer to play, set up etc, basically it has more to justify itself with. Red Rising certainly isn't good, but it knew it was nothing more than a card game.
I really like top and flop lists and I somehow enjoyed watching this video, but I dont get why there are lists concerning a specific publisher?! When it's the main mechanism or the theme or the complexity or the game length or the player count that makes sense BUT do you ever sit there and say "today I want to play a Stonemeier game so what are my favorites?" ;-) I hope you get what I mean. I think I dont even know the publisher of about a third of my games because why should I?! It doenst have any influence on the gameplay at all. The only time a publisher is relevant is when you need to know which stand to go at a trade fair. So in the end this is a kind of list that everybody watches but that actually doesnt really help. :-)
Viticulture and Scythe are excellent games. Wingspan would be up there except that the theme is just so so for me. Tapestry is a game I do actually like. It is flawed, but I can live with those flaws. The other stuff is pretty but rather insipid.
In most other games, people wouldn't live with balance issues, but I still don't get why Tapestry gets forgiven. And you don't like the bird theme, fair enough, Tapestry doesn't have a theme!
My two cents: 1) Doing asymmetric factions is really hard. 2) I love your show, but don't you think that this is the easiest way to make a lot of new enemies? Who likes to hear that they are bad at something? 3) In most of the fields: inventions, music, writing best things are done by young people. Maybe the same is in boardgames? As we getting old maybe we lose creativity and will to experiment/invent something new?
All flawed games. Even your fav one can't hold without the replacement board. Everybody recommends buying fixes to remedy the sunk cost of their pretty base game. Some titles have obvious power spikes -e.g. crows, Marriage of state, Patriotic- but people are oblivious in their few plays to even notice them.
Not a popular opinion but i really do think Stonemaier Games are overrated. The games felt average at best and priced higher than other boxes. The only thing good going forward seems to be those overproduced components…
I’m glad you said this- I’ve always felt like the little boy saying the emperor isn’t wearing clothes with these games. Expeditions made me want to pluck out my eyeballs. Wingspan is about as exciting as a medically induced coma. Playing tapestry is like taking sandpaper to my knob. Scythe is mildly interesting, kinda like discovering a dodgy looking mole and getting the all clear from the dermatologist.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I can’t explain how much I love Tapestry. Is my fav so far.
Even with its balancing problems? Most others would strike out other Euros for the same issue. Why does Tapestry get a free pass.
@@TheBrokenMeeple because the journey is both pleasant, beautiful and interesting, that the final destination doesn’t matter so much?
How is leveling up tracks and placing buildings in weird patterns beautiful and interesting? Except that the buildings are overproduced and double the price of the game....
I don't particularly enjoy Tapestry, but the complaints about it being "unbalanced" are frustrating. No amount of playtesting can match the wealth of data gathered after a game's release. Video games handle this post-launch balancing, and it should be more accepted for board games as well. Kudos to Jamie for his ongoing support and improvements to the game.
I think that it is a treacherous path to go down. On the one hand you are entirely correct that Jamey is to be commended for supporting his games after release. And you are also correct that play testing can only get you so far.
On the other hand, I want to know in advance that buying a game means I only get the right to become a play-tester. I’m not saying that is the case with SM games, but I lost interest in playing Scythe (a 2-4 hour game) again, after realising that certain starting combos had significantly higher win-potential.
The problem with Tapestry (and the reason I sold my copy) is because there were only two different tech trees you move up to maximize your points. It was also dubbed a Civilization game, but I never felt any build up or bonus to bring the first to do anything. The factions are unbalanced and the game is just monotonous. Had to let it go
I feel taking the video game industry as an example sort of reinforces the argument rather than to help make your point.
The video game standards are abysmal, and everyone agrees, it's not because devs and studios have become greedy lazy fkin clunts in the last 10 years that it's fine and acceptable.
As it seems you are rating both Viticulture including the Tuscany expansion and Wingspan including the Oceania expansion, you should also rate Expeditions including the Gears of Corruption expansion. It is also an essential fix for some of the flaws in the base game and improves it significantly.
So what does it fix? Obviously I don't own the game any more, but let's ignore the stupid 6th player part.
I wouldn't say complete fix but it has improved it a lot. Kickstarting the resources, making the map tokens worthwhile and an easier way to pick up corruption tokens are all good. The game is shorter so you should appreciate it would be over quicker :D. My partner complained the game was bone dry and then proceded to beat me comfortably.
Yes, it speeds up the slow start and also allows for way more variety in the gameplay:
- The starting resources allow for much earlier exploration
- The new map tokens make exploration a better strategy due to the bonus
- The hero worker takes away the need to chase workers as the first move and opens other options
- The new hero worker also allows to go for the purple cards earlier on
So overall, a more diverse set of tactical options at the start of the game. And then there is the corrupted mech module which can be added for some new variety. Plus some other minor additions like new leaders/companions and some new stronger item cards.
Pendulum is my favorite game of all time 😅 I know I’m in the minority by far, but I LOVE it! This is why I’m glad there are thousands of new games every year.
Lol it's certainly a minority!
Best: Tapestry is probably the most popular game in my circle with over 50 plays. It is not perfectly balanced but everyone always has a great time comboing their moves regardless of the result. And with all the civs and cards the variety is amazing.
We also do love Viticulture but it can end with a somewhat sour feeling in such a tight game when you just dont draw the cards.
Worst: Scythe just fell flat for us. Very dry and too competitive. Theme doesnt help that.
Pendulum is just a hot mess. No one wants to play literally on the clock.
It’s all over the place - but - it is fun!
I don't need the best cards though to do well at Viticulture, though of course it can help. But Tapestry is not a skillful affair. The tapestry cards are woefully unbalanced and can literally win someone the game if a lucky combo arises. The factions themselves already give players either a significant advantage or disadavantage.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I actually enjoy making a weaker Civilization thrive. I sometimes pick them on purpose and see how far i can take it and it often enough works well. Might be how you approach it. None of us particularly cares who wins. We just like the puzzle. Traders with over 300 points is possible. To be fair the alchemists are just unplayable but thats the only civ i know of that never even came close to average scores. And on a side note to Viticulture: I lost more than one game because someone happened to have an additional sell wine action on a blue card.
Tapestry is a lot of fun - oh it has many flaws, but there's always the possibility of a wild points combo. If you accept its a paper thin theme it's just fine. Apiary has been a surprise hit for me, hits a similar wingspan itch in many ways.
One of the real baffling things with Stonemaier is the insistence on 5 players (or worse 6) for all their games. How many games genuinely aren't a chore at that player count (maybe there's a video in that)?
I think the majority agree that the whole 5/6+ player count in SM games is a waste, but they want to bulk up the value of their expansions and games.
Great video Luke! I look forward to many more episodes in this series and hope that is a successful series for you!
Thank you!!
It's funny how often my opinions are almost exactly opposite to yours. I'm probably just wrong, and I definitely respect your opinion. This time it wasn't quite opposite to mine, since you liked Scythe and Viticulture (as do I); but I really don't care for Wingspan at all and I love Tapestry. Never tried Pendulum or Expeditions, but now I wonder if I should. Lol. Different strokes.
Viticulture without Tuscany was my intro into modern board games after playing Carcasonne once in a while and it blew my mind at the time. Then I purchased Tuscany and I discovered how much fun and thematic board games could be.
Very fun video to watch Luke. I like this format with negative and positive takes. More enjoyable than watching a long rant on a game I understand you didn’t enjoy two minutes in the video. I wish you a great (cool) summer.
Long rant on a game? So what the other reviews? :P
Pretty nice overview and explanation about the hate and love of the games!! Well done :-)
I have Wingspan and all expansions and that’s also my favorite. I like Pendulum with 2 players and Tapestry with some house rules. Even though our tastes don’t always line up I always enjoy your descriptions and analysis!
I appreciate your direct discussion and thoughts. You may want to consider being a little less dismissive of what other people enjoy. Some people are not as bothered by down time and want games that play with their regular group of 4-5, don’t mind playing games a game that has been ‘fixed’….certainly that happens a lot with video games, etc. I do like to see the passion you have for what you enjoy, perhaps consider turning it a little down for what you don’t as small things don’t make a game (which many others enjoy a certain way) “garbage.” Thanks.
I strongly disagree with this comment. Luke's refreshing approach comes from his refusal to conform to pressures like these. When watching his reviews, remember that they reflect his personal opinions and perspectives. It's natural for his views to sometimes differ from yours. There's no need to take offense just because your opinions don't align. After all, you didn't create the game, so there's no reason to take his comments personally.
What Daniel said (though he's not taking offense or personally, he's merely offering advice). I get where you're coming from, but your last sentence is the reason why so many creators out there are just saying "everything is amazing" without any credibility behind it. These are just my personal opinions and people are totally free to debate and deny them, it encourages debate.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Fair enough. It is your channel and I have been a long time subscriber as I like many of the games you do too. I just wanted to share some feedback, as in my experience is that there is a world of difference in receptivity between saying "I don't like xxx because..." and "xxx is garbage"...even if the fact that the latter is an opinion is clearly implied. Often people that state opinions as facts start forgetting themselves that it is not in fact, a fact. Anyway I do appreciate your directness and analysis so please take this feedback in the positive spirit it was intended (a very good book on a related topic that I found useful is Radical Candor).
@@guandjs Well Said 👍😊
Nah - half the fun of this channel is combing into the comments and telling Luke he’s talking out of his arse. Can’t do that if he sits on the fence.
I played a blisteringly fast 3-player game of Expeditions yesterday. The expansion certainly accelerates the game through the slowish first third. Great game.
Tapestry gets a "free pass" because it’s fun, and the actual process of playing it feels good.
And I’d rather stab myself in the leg than play Viticulture ever again. I dint understand how someone could rant about Taoestry being unbalanced and then give a free pass to the unbalanced AND swingy Viticulture. Takes all folks I suppose.
So yet again they have to rely on an expansion to fix their game? 😏
Tapestry is not fun to just level up tracks. Yay I got two steps on the military track, if only I could get a step on the science track, that would be so exciting 😅
I don't give Viticulture a pass for its balance issues, it is still a legit flaw of the game. However, I do find that (a) it's exaggerated at times as I've won perfectly fine without them and (b) in the classic vein of SM releasing expansions to fix bad design, the small cards packs are much better to use.
I totally agree on Expeditions and Tapestry. Did not like either, especially expeditions. Played it at a con and was totally bored. I'm not a big Scythe fan though I'd still play it. Viticulture is fun but I got turned off a bit when I won a game or two without ever making wine. Isn't that the point. I currently like Wyrmspan a bit more than Wingspan but it's very close and I have not tried Oceana yet so that might push it back up. I do enjoy Apiary and would most likely rank is just behing the two ...span games right now. Great video.
Cheers - certainly give Wingspan a try with Oceania's revised boards and nectar included, then that's enough to make a final call on those two.
I regards to games with 5 or 6 players, flexibility can sometimes be nice. My regular game group fluctuates alot, could be anywhere between 4 and 15. Having a variety of games in a variety of player counts, lengths, and weights can be helpful. 🤷🏻♂️
But do you think it was 1000+ people asking for flock mode or just 5 people in SM's gaming group?
I think there are more appropriate options for 5 and 6 players.
I also don't get why someone would seek to play games like these at such high player counts; they become a slog 😵.
Stonemaier introduced their "games as value-added items" philosophy somewhere in the Scythe - Tapestry period, that (and abandoning crowdfunding post Scythe) seems to have been a pivotal moment when their games went downhill. The announcement of the "philosophy" was the point where I stopped buying their games. IIRC it was around this time that EGG did a similar thing, which is why The Gallerist is the last of *their* games that I purchased.
Well then you missed the excellent and unique Escape Plan, and of course, Kanban EV which was also top notch.
@@npckse8508 well, I have the original (Stronghold) Kanban, so I have no need of the EV version. Besides, there are so many great games out there that I can find games to buy without supporting publishers that I don't like. I can live without any more Lacerda games, that super-heavy Euro field is getting very crowded 🙂
Oh he didn't miss anything with avoiding Escape Plan............except maybe a brain aneurism for how terrible that game is.
@@TheBrokenMeeple it did kinda sink without trace, didn't it? (But it's still a BGG top 1000 game, nevertheless!)
@@TheBrokenMeeple Wow, or, just for a second bear with me, he didn't and it is a great game. Lol your terrible game is another person's great game. Both can be true at the same time without the advent of quantum mechanics :)
Thanks for your review.
not many unbiased reviewers left.
& i think ALL game publishers should state the number of hours they play tested.
If i dont recall wrongly, SM games usually state hundreds of hours of playtesting before the launch of each title but even that can result in this..
Stating the hours is very, very complicated. You want to give the games to several groups and let them play on their own as well, so not all playtesting will be witnessed by someone from the publisher who'd be able to track that time. But yeah, I feel like even though many other games may have balancing issues (Terra Mystica, Great Western Trail, and Agricola, my three favorites, all had changes, new editions, banned cards, etc), Stonemaier Games has a bit too many...
Thank you kindly!
Although it may be difficult to measure the exact hours, a range can be used. E.g. 50 hours, 100 hours, 1000 hours. & Maybe they should state the number of hours play tested on their box so its concrete clear to the buyer & cant be changed as & when eg on the internet. I feel these steps are important as over a period of time, buyers / gamers will have a good sense how ‘reliable’ the specific publisher is stating their hours & more importantly how well tested are their games. I question about play testing hours because With the rush to compete for monies & launch games, many of the recent games dont seem to be ‘rock solid’
Scythe is still my favorite (maybe cause it was one of the first modern board games we purchased), with viticulture (Tuscany) as my number two. Tapestry is still a fav of ours too, but we grab up like 7 civs at the game start and choose from them, cause why not? But the tapestry cards themselves can be very over/ under powered. And I wanted to like pendulum, but it’s not great. Neither is red rising, libertalia, or expeditions. And thanks to your video of apiary, I will not be purchasing that, thus ending our “must buy everything SM” streak. I also loved your top/ worst of Uwe, as he is my fav publisher. Please do one on Shem next, but don’t be too harsh lol. Great videos btw!!!
First, I love this video format. I would like to hear more about liked and hated board games from different publishers.
Now, I do like your top three Stonemaier game picks as they are games I like and will play. Now, I do like Tapestry, but will only play it if the game shows up at a table. I have no plans to go buy the game myself. I have not played either Pendulum nor Scythe Expeditions, and will also not hunt them to own them. I will also hold judgement on Wyrmspan until I can get it to the table, but it does hold promise of being a good game.
I think the format is getting a decent bit of traction.
Yea not aligned. Tapestry has flaws but it's one of my favorite games. It got so many bad reviews I knew I had to try it first. I tried it at a game shop. Immediatly fell in love. Maybe the hype created the wrong expectations. It might not be the best but I disagree it's one of the worst...
The hype didn't help, but even when you get past that you can't forgive how dry it is, how swingy it is and how they took 3 attempts to "fix" the balance and still failed. That can't be forgiven or considered " a flaw under the carpet".
I liked this format. Feels a bit refreshing even though I like top tens as well… would love to hear your thoughts on Red Raven games, since the two I’ve tried has been a miss but everyone is raving about (pun intended) their games.
I wonder if there's many truly bad ones for them, but I'd have to think on it.
Would love to see a review of all of the Ryan Locket games.
Problem is I haven't played some of his smaller games.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I’ve played Roam. It’s a smallish game but so good.
Spot on when it comes to Tapestry although on the marketing bait and switch you are too kind if anything. They went in hard on the player bases decades long call for a "playable" civ when the most gracious you can call it is civ themed
Prob was to be honest!
Yes. Played Tapestry once. My civ's power was not able to be used all game. The guy who won...had a civ power that was able to be used every turn. Can't imagine how he won... Really spoiled the game for my group.
Imbalanced mess, that's all it is.
I own viticulture and the Tuscany expansion, and enjoy either the base or with expansion, as long as we ignore the trading wheel which is just too extra for me. Right now I'm in a game on BGA where I have drawn four purple cards requiring red wine and four grape cards all white grapes. 😭
Trading wheel........i don't recall that?
I like this format. Looking forward to more.
And I was in total agreement with you, all the way up until you said "Wingspan." At which point a noise of disgust game out of me. 😂
Not that I think it is a terrible game, but there is absolutely nothing special about it, and I will always prefer just about any other game.
Ha ha I mean 5 out of 6 is a good score!
cant agree more, Luke
me too : Wingspan is the no.1 from Stonemaier
i skipped the dragon lol, maybe because of the art i think
and the second close is Red Rising 😄, odd
but i loving it so much
I also enjoy red rising a lot, along with wingspan and worm span and rolling realms
Totally agree with you about Tapestry, i don't get hoy people like or recognize that game over others. Greetings from Argentina!
Greetings! Yeah fans forgive it's complete unbalanced nature like it's a tiny thing.
Haven’t actually played a Stonemaier game I didn’t like but I also have never played Pendulum. Tapestry and Expeditions are my two favorites.
But how do you forgive their biggest problems?
@@TheBrokenMeeple didn’t really have the problem to begin with but both games have fixed the issues with expansion content. I would definitely suggest giving expeditions another chance with the gears of corruption expansion.
Hi Luke, I have not played Oceania yet because many reviewers said that the nectar makes it too easy. But you recommend it?
I highly recommend it. The nectar makes playing bigger birds more viable and it's not guaranteed that you're going to swim in nectar. Plus the nectar doesn't keep from round to round.
So when Jamey surveyed Stonemaier ambassadors he found Tapestry was their favourite Stonemaier game - above Wingspan. I play tested the solo mode for Tapestry and gradually fell in love with it and continue to enjoy it more and more every time. It’s not really a civ game - correct - and it’s not balanced but here’s the thing…
I just don’t care that it’s not balanced.
Now it’s my third fave game of all time after Xia and Glen More 2. It’s probably more balanced than Xia but Xia really doesn’t care about balance. He tried - he amount of play stats captured is huge compared to most games. But stop worrying about balance and do the best you can, and it becomes more and more absorbing.
Tapestry is loved as it gets better and better the more you play it. Tapestry is ‘meh’ for some as it requires a good few plays to get hooked, and it’s super swingy. But I’ve realised I care less and less about balance the older I get.
Shocked to see Jamey not commenting here. I bet he hates you ;) If you don’t like one game from him, you get on his sht list. That’s his personality.
Ha ha he can't publicly say it though can he? 😜
Worst:
3 - Euphoria (not bad. But just meh)
2 - Red Rising
1 - Pendulum
Best:
3 - Viticulture - blew my mind when I wasn’t properly into games yet - now it’s a solid above average game.
2 - Scythe - I really like this. Solo is great with the ScytheKick app - though it does annoyingly charge you for the upgrade you don’t want before it’ll let you buy the upgrade you do want.
1 - Tapestry - probably unbalanced - I don’t care, and I love it enough that I bought the upgraded civs. This game is just pure joy for a breezy solo game. I’ve only played multiplayer once, and that was good too - but I don’t think you need other players for this.
Wingspan falls firmly in the middle. Not bad by any stretch, but not outstanding in any way.
Great list, thanks for your Insight 👍🏻
My pleasure!
I really enjoy this new format. Top lists still work for me. Other than Stonemeier Games, I’m meh 🫤 on publishers. Designer top lists? That’s what I’m talking about 👍🏻 Dr. Knizia being my first suggestion. Cheers!
Not one of my favourite designers but can try to find 3 greats!
Pretty much spot on for me although I'm still to play wingspan. Years latter and the marketing for Tapestry still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They tapped into the decades long call for a playable civ and provided a civ themed game that should have been obvious needed a lot more playtesting. Jaimie does seem like a super nice guy though
He's nice enough but certainly more a corporate business man then a gamer.
Scythe is the game I wanted to like most. I bought the base game and the first two expansions, but the more I played it, the more I got annoyed by the fact that it's just an efficiency puzzle with little interaction (and almost no economic interaction). I might still try it with the variable map, and maybe with some goal changes from Fenris, but it's gone down a lot in rating for me.
The only two of their games I still like quite a bit are Wingspan and Wyrmspan (which I was very skeptical about, but I love even more than Wingspan).
If you don't like it already I wouldn't count on Fenris to suddenly change things and the variable map is pointless.
Great video! I like this format. I also like top ten lists but this format is a refreshing mix-up to the standard. Stonemaier is a funny publisher for me. At one point they were my favourite publisher. This was when Red Rising was announced. So, that was my ideal mashup - my favourite publisher in my favourite hobby producing a game about my favourite fandom. But then Red Rising turned out to be just...okay. It wasn't nearly as heavy, thematic, or engaging as I would have liked. I think that's when I began to realize that Stonemaier doesn't make games in the weight class that I most enjoy (and most play) anymore. That being said, I have never disliked a Stonemaier game. I've either loved, liked, or just felt okay about them.
My bottom two (can't pick three) would be: Red Rising (just disappointed from how hyped I was) and Wingspan (too simple for my tastes now and the bird theme doesn't really resonate)
My top three would be: Scythe (an all-time favourite), Tapestry (love the overproduced buildings and the combo's - mainly play solo), and Expeditions (mainly play solo and I really enjoy the card play/hand management aspects).
So my group likes Red Rising, but we have developed this meta where almost every location on the board ends up empty, especially the fleet track location.
Fantasy Realms exists - it killed Red Rising before Red Rising even got released.
My list:
Best: 3. Viticulture with Tuscany, 2. Wingspan. 1. Tapestry (masterpiece with the first two expansions). Honorable mention to Scythe which I have all in but only played once.
Worst (none of these are BAD but from the ones I played these are my worst): 3. Libertalia (nothing majorly wrong with it, I just don't feel like playing again, take that elements ruin it). 2. Apiary (hate the theme, unoriginal and unbalanced). 1. Wyrmspan (unnecessary and inferior to the birds).
I mean I'll certainly side that Apiary was a dud. But why do people forgive Tapestry so much? It still isn't fixed to this day!
@@TheBrokenMeeple It's just a fun game to go thru the motions and play it. I think now it's fixed and balanced and the new civs have useful complexity ratings on them. I'm not fan of the latest expansion, ironically I think that's the one that breaks the game a little bit, not because of balancing but other stuff they added. But end of the day it's just a fun game to play. And yes it's probably my most themeless Euros in the collection.
I'd add Apiary to the list of Stonemaier's best games. And Wyrmspan is even better than Wingspan, which I love. I've got my share of Stonemaier duds, including Red Rising and Libertalia.
I really like Wyrmspan but I don't think it will replace Wingspan because that light and breezy feel of Wingspan has gone.
@@gadgetgeekgirl yeah, I like both games but for different reasons. I wouldn't get out Wyrmspan at the end of a long play day when I only have an hour left, it's too complex for that. But I do love more complex games in general, so Wyrmspan ended up surprising the hell out of me.
The nesting box is obnoxiously large. Much larger than the Scythe legendary box and a poor storage solution (much bigger than it needs to be). I have the big Allplay bag and I can only fit fillers besides the nesting box. You do get another tower, but that's a small win for the price tag.
Yet another something badly designed, go figure.....
Do a similar thing on Uwe. Video length is fine. Top 10, only some are interesting, most arent (on any boardgame youtube channel). Id rather watch something like this for sure!
Uwe is certainly I think going to get a mention.
I was really pleasantly surprised by Apiary. I think it’s one of their best.
It got a lot of hype out of nowhere!
Just started watching this and the next in this series drops 😀. I agree with everything apart from Wingspan which I just don't like either solo or multiplayer, not really sure why, just didn't grab me solo and my family wasn't that interested in it. Btw Luke, don't know how you have your camera setup but just recently I've noticed it's chopping the top of your head off which looks a bit odd.
Yeah getting the angle is tricky at times, but I was afraid it was doing that. Easily fixed.
I have, I think, every product Stonemaier has produced except Wyrmspan (not into remixes), including Pendulum(!), and one thing I've noticed that hasn't changed throughout the company's existance is the poorly thought out insert designs. The company has not improved much here. Remember the Lengendary Box came with a couple of long boxes? Oof! The insert in that Viticulture Wine Crate is a war crime! Wingspan's Nesting Box is full of mind-boggling decisions, like having to separate the deck into multiple holders across multiple levels. I mean, come on! I don't know what's going on down there at Stonemaier headquarters, but some of these choices make me think they harbor a lot of anger towards humans.
Apiary was great and reminds me of the Stonemaier golden age, so hopefully that's a sign of a return to greatness.
Wyrmspan is infinitely superior than Wingspan.
The insert for Expeditions is great and fits the expansion as well
For me, i just didnt enjoy VITICULTURE (recently sold it with all expansions). I can see why people like it, and as Worker Placement is my favourite mechanic, i assumed it would. But it just hasnt clicked.
WINGSPAN is a relaxing game to play, and we do get it to the table a lot, but i can usually tell early, based on the cards i have, if i have a chance of winning. Sometimes its difficult to get a decent engine going.
We really enjoy EXPEDITIONS, mostly played at 2, but we had a great 4-player game woth friends a little while ago. Looking forward to adding the expansion soon.
ROLLING REALMS is a great Roll 'n' Write, and woth tje amount of card packs we now have, we'll never get bored (though some Realms work better than others).
EUPHORIA is a really interesting Worker Placement with a cool dice mechanic, though i still need yo try woth the expansion.
And SCYTHE is great, with a memorable win of a 5-player game last year being a gaming highlight for me. I think we're all having a rematch soon, so looking forward to that.
Euphoria was fine, but it had some very swingy elements in it being a dice based game.
Soooo are you hyped for the expeditions expansion which makes it playable for six players? 😂😜
Lol 😅
That's just ridiculous - I mean who the hell asked for that. I know why they've done it, they did it just to bulk up the expansion. They realised they can't market the little else it has for that kind of money so do the simple thing and just rehash some old components but change the colour and boom, suddenly there's more value to the expansion.
@@TheBrokenMeeple hehe yeah i know. I was just making fun :D I didnt enjoy the game with 3, and have no desire to ever play it again.
Have you played Euphoria with the expansion? That’s a pretty good one.
Not sure if with the expansion. . .
Agree on all the duds. Expeditions was a big no for me. Wingspan is way too lucky and random though. For me probably Scythe with Fenris on number 1.
What do you like about Fenris? The extra bits, or the campaign?
@@Drewkas0 both!
The campaign was OK, but I would have been just as happy taking it all part up front.
Two games you dint mention 1. Rolling Realms 2.Euphoria. Appreciate your thoughts on this, agree with some comments and top 3 but not all. But like you say that’s perfectly fine as it’s only a game and different strokes etc 👍🏻
Not actually played Rolling Realms - it didn't stand out to me when I first saw it. Euphoria I grew tired of eventually, it would sit somewhere in the middle.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I quite like the Rolling realms series. It’s super easy to play with anyone really. Non board gamers seem to love the quickness, easy to play and randomly selecting which cards to play with. The variety is vast now, I would recommend checking it out especially when the Redux box is released.
😆 Classic Luke first half of the vid 😂 Especially the rant on Tapestry 😅
Save positive for last! :P
This series is a great idea. I had a falling out with SM games in the last couple of years to the point that I didn't bother trying Apiary (I was even a SM ambassador and champion for a few years). Tapestry was one of the most disappointing game as it was marketed as a CIV game in less than 2 hours when it's civ-themed at best. Red Rising was also disappointing because it didn't capture the story that I loved; still hoping for a Red Rising 4x game someday. I agree Pendulum is the worst. Couldn't finish Charterstone after 5 plays; such a lackluster legacy experience. I agree completely with your assessment of Expeditions. Scythe was a top 3 game for me for a few years but after RoF campaign, I sold everything; the first 2/3 of the game is too much on rails. Wingspan was by replaced Earth; both low-player interaction but Earth plays quicker and I don't care about birds. I still have Viticulture EE with Tuscany and I think that's their best game by far.
I am looking forward to trying the new open world game next year tho.
My favorites are Wingspan and Tapestry.
I have played 8/17 stonemaier titles and this would be my ranking:
1. Between Two Castles (excellent drafting and tile placement game, underrated IMO)
2. Rolling Realms (solo has great support and the extra realms provide a ton of variability)
Everything from here down is kinda 'meh' for me, I'll play it but not actively suggest it when deciding what to play.
3. Viticulture
4. Red rising
5. Wingspan
6. Between two cities
7. Smitten
8. Scythe (possibly a bit unfair to rank at the bottom but I have only played 3 of 4 times on steam and didn't like it much)
Smitten??
My biggest problem with Tapestry is the frustration with the variable playtime of all players. If you are a bad player at this you‘ll finish the game early and you have to watch the rest of the group playing for 60 or 90 minute before you know that you‘ve lost by 100 points. Not a pleasant experience.
Perhaps not, but an educational one. I saw someone in their first play of Everdell keep their first season going so long, that the other players had finished their game almost 2 seasons ahead. We all learned a lot that day, especially the fact that despite those long turns, that player lost the game.
One of many problems with Tapestry.
Viticulture, the game you can win by not doing the main objective, producing and selling wine
I've read that and I still dont know how do you do that. I mean, not doubting it, I just cant understand what is the mechanism.
But well, Viticulture is for me the game where somehow, if I store my grapes for a year, they get better. Instead of rotting :P
@@jesuscoutofandino6280 One strong opening is going to that space where you sell your fields and sell one or two. The money boosts a lot your game. The rest is basically luck on card draw
@jesuscoutofandino6280 played a game this weekend where the winner only completed one wine order. They got all their points from Summer and winter cards
@@wildejedi exactly, that is so common It became boring for me.
I did it with a combination of grape making and orange structures that allowed me to utilise those grapes. Certainly it wasn't from the Summer/Winter cards - you would have to be exceedingly lucky for that and I would wonder what the other players were doing points wise.
You nailed this .
Thanks!
lol, none of your top 3 are still in my collection (I did expect you to pick those three, though). Wingspan I would still happily play, I just am in the crowd that much prefers Wyrmspan. Not just because I love dragons (had it simply been a reskin, nothing more, I wouldn't have bought it no matter how much I love dragons), but I love the mechanics of it more.
Viticulture does have a great worker placement concept, I'm just not a big fan of the point threshold ending. I was on the brink of culling it when the co-op expansion dropped, and that did breathe some life back into it for me since I enjoyed the upgradable worker spots aspect of it. But ultimate it just didn't sustain it enough for me.
Scythe is probably the game that had the biggest fall for me, simply because it used to be among my favourites. But over time it has just felt more and more like I was playing the same game over and over again. It did last 16 plays though before I culled it, so that's something at least.
Tapestry, however, is still going strong for me. I genuinely don't care that it's not balanced. I have not consulted any of the rebalancing efforts, because I don't need it to have fun with it. It's probably my favourite Stonemaier, though Wyrmspan could surpass it over time. Not tried Pendulum (nor do I really care to, the moment I heard it was real-time, it just went off the radar for me as that's not a mechanism that appeals to me at all) and only played Expeditions once and it was a 5-player game (too many people interested to play it at once), and yeah, I don't really want to play it 5-player ever again, too crowded. I think it could be good at 2, but the chance that I will get to play it at 2 is fairly slim since I'm not interested enough to get my own copy.
Ewww Expeditions at 5 player, not a good start! Normally balance is such a key thing in games yet everyone just ignores it for Tapestry and it's not like there's some really funny gimmick or anything, it's just a bone dry track levelling Euro game, I just don't get it!
@@TheBrokenMeeple in some games you just embrace the chaos. I understand the critisism, absolutely, and I get why that will deter people from it. It just isn't an issue for me. I love the possible combos I can get, I enjoy figuring out how best to make do with what I get. Theme has never really mattered to me (not beyond the art and general look, at least) as I'm mechanically driven anyway, so dry isn't a bad thing for me. The appeal is in the puzzle.
I agree with most of what you say. They just don’t playtest enough with their games. Wyrmspan will die is my view. Just get the Robot competitor version IMO.
About Tapestry, I do own it. I regularly take it to community gaming days as it’s very popular. What sells it, and gets a lot of smiles from people is racing and getting the physical buildings. These win it, for the game. Oh yea, and the two/four page rule book. Otherwise I won’t argue your points about it, but the illusion of what the components do, do do the job,,,, very successfully.
My favorite is Viticulture! I do like Wingspan.
Agree with all your best and worst choices. Own only the best 3. Sat down Expeditions demo at Essen 23 and maybe the teacher wasn’t good but after the demo turns it was straight out boring (dodged a bullet,. Did just buy Wyrmspan cause it was decent price to try and see if can replace my wingspan collection. Hate the art but will try just for mechanisms. Worst i sell and lose like $10aud.
As for Stonemarier on the downs, atleast they try each year and help other designers so A+. It is hard to come up with something completely different in boardgames but we can say no two of their games are the same like say compare to Rosenberg. No publisher or designer always has a hit or recent hits. It's like a song artist, you might like their earlier albums but absolutely hate their new stuff (*cough cough* Taylor Swift). The good thing is atleast we can try and move onto the 100s of other new games out there.
Expeditions is pretty boring so I don't think it was the demo. Certainly no-one has constant hits once they get about say 5 games or so.
@TheBrokenMeeple how bout Knizia 😂? More than 5 hits but % hit wise is another story.
There's a "best" of Stonemaier?
Also, great series idea!
Listened to your podcast recently and i agree that most people love every new release and cant admit when a game is bad and that is especially true for Stonemeier gamss. Me? I hate them all except wingspan!
Certainly wouldn't hate them all, but yeah, I see some hard defenders for SM forgiving big issues!
So wrong about Tapestry! My favourite Stonemaier. The balance stuff can be fixed by drawing a couple of tapestry cards on the income turns and choosing one. Also, the pack of ‘fixed’ cigs is available online for free, but just available to purchase if you want the physical copy. Tapestry is also fantastic at 2 players.
The main problem with all stonemaier games as far as I can tell, is that they make them all 1-5 players. 5 players doesn’t work for me for almost all of them - scythe, tapestry, wingspan, viticulture, and fake scythe all go horrendously long with 5.
28:55 egg timer, hour glass, it’s all good 👍🏻 😂
Ha ha!
Expeditions at 5 sounds insane. It’s pretty fun at 3 players max with the new inexpensive expansion that speeds up the pace of the game.
5 player Expeditions was one of the most tedious experiences!
I agree on those best 3, also for me the best (and only) 3 AND in the same order too. The only other I did consider was Expeditions because of the Scythe ART-work. But can I justify this for a game I probably won't play?? And yes, MORE birds NOW. But unlike you I like the Nesting box. I wish I had the Wine crate too.
The wine crate is nice, though given a lot of the Viticulture content I don't use, it could have fit in a smaller box.
I also think that Tapestry and Wyrmspan were too hyped. Tapestry was definitely broken from the get-go. They tried to rebalance it a few times, not getting it done still... But at least they tried (booby prize?)
I agree that Wingspan and Viticulture are Stonemaier's two best games, but the fact remains that they are still very average games as far as I'm concerned. 7/10 at most.
Even my favourites of Stonemaier have certainly gone down in rating , with the exception of Wingspan.
Thanks Luke. Always enjoy your vids, honest appraisal and from the heart.
Love love viticulture and agree, Tuscany a must.
As for Wingspan....errrrmmm....
I got it. I played. I loved it.
Then...i realised.
Eggs!
Eggs!!
Just get eggs!! Especially at the end.
It became so repetitive and honestly if you played differently...you lost.
You mention Oceania "solves" this...sort of.
Never played but if does...maybe ok. But honestly...i am giving it away to a friend and not looking back.
Such a shame. I love birds too. But, I tried so hard to love it, but couldn't. What's that saying?...if you love something, you gotta let it go and not hold on to it too tight.
Well...wingspan...fly fly away.
More time for Spirit Island!!😂
Oceania revamps the player boards - the egg action doesn't give you as many eggs and the other 2 actions are slightly better. Plus the addition of Nectar allows for the play of bigger birds.
Trashed Pendulum last year because it had no resell value. Still trying to like expeditions with the new expansion.
Yeah who would ever buy it?!
@@TheBrokenMeeple I bought the expansion and painted the mechs. I only played solo so far. Wouldn’t buy it again. Will give it another try and probably sell it. Greetings from Germany.
Viticulture was probably my biggest let down in board gaming. You talk about imbalance in Tapestry (haven't played it) but Viticulture is very, very imbalanced...the visitors..
OMG. It felt like they added two tiers of cards and just mixed them all. Even small imbalances in the mamas & papas, for example there are two that are very similar, just that the other one is slightly better. I have not played with the expandions tho and I've heard it fixes stuff.
Broken Meeple pushed Scythe down the stars!
Agree with the list, but Id swap wingspan (2) and Viticulture (1)
I also don't get the obsession with playing games like these at high player counts. I even don't get why many seek to play them at maximum capacity when most of them work best at 3 😅.
I'm not a fan of Scythe, but I do like Expeditions. I don't care if it's not thematic, I like the efficiency puzzle and "engine building" this one presents over Scythe's. Besides, I found Expeditions to be more interactive with others getting in my way constantly. I do like planning routes (and pick up and deliver games), so going from A, to B, to C/D is what I like XD.
Tapestry deserves all the flack it gets.
Yeah, it's great that the publisher fixes stuff, but it shouldn't become the standard. A few people said that this happens with videogames and that's fine. NO, IT ISN'T! Videogames' standards have plummeted horribly and it's because of that (among other reasons). Besides, it's not the same as a videogame that can be patched easily while someone could be playing a board game without knowing that it IS broken but feel something is wrong.
People forgive so much with Tapestry and I can only put it down to SM love.
i like wyrmspan, expeditions, apiary, and euphoria. they are fun to play. i have viticulture and for me its the worst one. my games usually get played at 1 or 2 so that may be why i feel that way.
none of these games are in my top 20, but im happy to have the ones i like.
Never liked any of his games and boycotted him after he refused to replace damaged pieces in the scythe game which I then had to sell for a reduced price. I guess he didn’t have the money. Lacerda also on my sh..t list for actually contacting me when I left a poor review on one of his games.
@@shatnershairpiece What did he say to you?
Yeah I'm curious about this now? I admit it was easier to get contact with him before weather machine and Inventions came out. 😏
@@TheBrokenMeeple lacerda said I was damaging his reputation, hurting sales, and I should remove the review. That was sent to me through bgg mail. Stenchmeir and I had a very public feud on bgg. I also feuded with that guy who designed evolution. He has the letters CRAP in his last name. Very apt.
@@coltonbeatty6117lacerda complained about my negative review, demanded I remove it from bgg. Said it was hurting sales.
He said my review was hurting the game sales and I should remove it.
I have not jumped on the Stonemaier hype train yet.
I am almost with you here. First, Tapestry is a hit in my group and will likely remain so. Expeditions, despite not being Scythe, has been well-received as well and I am enjoying it. I cannot begin to state how much I don't find Wingspan fun and just don't understand the love. Wyrmspan felt like more of a game and so we have been playing that one, while I sold my Wingspan. Pendulum I still haven't tried playing with others, so perhaps one day.
Again, I love your content, but please, consider stopping the pointing out what others are saying game you have been playing. Who cares if Tantrum House loved Expeditions? It doesn't make their opinion invalid or strengthen your opinion one bit. I like your channel because you tend to call it like you see it, but this playing clips from other channels stuff needs to stop.
How can people not like an elegant engine builder with pretty birds but am totally fine with a bone dry track levelling machine with an overproduced pattern builder and broken balance? :P
Also that clip was recycled from the original Expeditions video to make a point ;-)
Only played Expeditions once and it was no way bone dry. It's fun. Tapestry is bad though
Don't know if "bone dry" means something else, but "dry" means that it lacks theme and I agree, but also, I don't care XD.
@@DicepairGames I don't see how you equate "Bone Dry" with theme alone. Makes no sense. "Bone Dry" suggests boring rinse and repeat type of games with no variation. Expeditions has enough different strategic decisions to prevent it from fulling into that category.
@@david6294 Because that's how the term "dry" is used when talking about board games. It's often used along with "euro" because many of them are (or used to be) "themeless".
In fact, you can watch minute 4:55 to confirm that he's talking about theme. His previous statements a few seconds before that he's talking about how "mechanical" the game is, too.
Look into it and you'll see that that's what it means in board gaming. Don't know its origin, but it's been like that ever since I got into the hobby 😅.
I don't own a single Stonemeier game. Of those I've played, Viticulture I would play again, but I've no desire to own a copy. Criticisms? Yes the Tuscany tweak to action spots felt too close to a 'fix'. I also found the cards remarkably swingy (though not for Stonemeier I suppose🤣), though I could see how visitors from the Rhine would appeal to those even more irritated by the swinginess.
Avoiding all of SM games is not a bad shout honestly in some respects!
I would totally take Tapestry over Red Rising. Red Rising seems super broken - when you are "finished" with the goals of the game half way through the game and just waiting for it to end, it is not good. I would much prefer Tapestries imbalance to that.
In essence both games are "broken" :P
On the player count: it seems to be company policy at Stonemaier that EVERY game they have published can be played with a max player count of at least 5 (many of them up to 6/7). I would not berate them at all for that. It is a free option for us gamers in case ever required (think about large families). Sure, it doesn’t make sense at all times. But I don’t think this should be a negative for any of their games and not worth a lengthy rant.
A game still has to justify extra players. Many publishers simply do this to sell more copies, but probably about 1% of players want to play these games at maximum possible count because the games are never scaled properly to compensate.
1. Tapestry
2. Scythe
3. Wingspan
4. Viticulture
5. Red Rising
999. Pendulum - I didn’t play it so just wanted to pile on how bad it looked
I own Viticulture EE+Tuscany EE and Scythe.
Thats enough for me to learn my lesson. These are fine games, but I'll pass on the rest based on these. I'll never reach for Viticulture over Agricola. Ill never play Scythe over Hansa Teutonica. Then after playing Earth and hating it, I'm pretty sure I won't like Wingspan.
Earth is on my to be traded list, the novelty wore off quite quickly and it's on BGA anyway. Wingspan will never leave the collection.
@@gadgetgeekgirl What's the difference between the two? What makes you favor Wingspan over Earth?
I'm not a fan of games with tons of unique cards, and for me Earth just overdid this along with overdoing symbols, text, chaining effects, etc. Every turn we were being told by the game owner that actually this doesn't trigger but that does because it's italicized, or something. The action selection mechanic also takes from Puerto Rico, but removes what makes that system fun...if I can just do what the player before me, or two turns ago did...who cares.
@@EngMadison If card games are not your thing it may not be that wingspan is for you then either. But earth was just too much, engine building was chaotic and there were rarely bad choices in what you selected. It felt like you could have a terrible game and still score over 150 points which is just silly. Wingspan is tighter, you only need to worry about one spatial aspect, and the reducing number actions each round stop it going into madness.
@@gadgetgeekgirl I like card games (San Juan and Fleet are some of my favorite), what I didn't care for was the deck of unique cards and fishing for something that might do something worthwhile. I had a hand full of mushrooms...only to never see another mushroom card again and my combo strategy on that just fell flat.
I might try Wingspan if it's a little more focused, that does sound better.
Totally agree with player counts being inflared with a lot of games these days.
I dont know where i would rate Scythe. Loved it but now have no interest in playing ever again.
Wingspan easily top.
Wyrmspan seems a good game but the art is nice but i dont find it interesting.. feel it would have been better as a nature game again.. fish perhaps? Dinosaurs I dunno..
Couldn't disagree more on tapestry!
It's going to be hotly debated! But I can't forgive such shoddy balancing work.
Scythe has been slowly falling for me. It feels on-rails the more I play it; I keep hearing Fenris fixes it. Not sure if/when I'll try it out, though.
I half disagree about Tapestry. I do think it was marketed as the next 4x civ game to beat. It definitely doesn't fit that mold, but I actually really enjoy the puzzle it presents. Theme is silly, especially with the inventions, but It is kind of endearing if you don't try to think much about it. My biggest issue is the Tapestry cards. They need to be divided into eras, like Innovation or something...
I'll never be tired of Viticulture or Wingspan, they are like visiting old friends with each play.
Expeditions, sadly, looked like a boring exercise of a game when I looked at the rules. I'm glad I didn't go for it.
Apiary has been a surprise hit, for me. There is nothing new or crazy going on, but it is easy to play and teach new players. Also some fun small combos with some of the hive tiles. The exploration part is easily the weakest part of the game.
Suprised Euphoria didn't get a mention, dreadful game. Can't agree about Tapestry though, love the game
It's at the lower end for sure. But why does Tapestry get a free pass with all its problems?
Expeditions below Red Rising??? Really? What was behind that rationale (I agree Expeditions is only a 1-3 player game but didn't enjoy Red Rising at any player count)
Red Rising is basically Fantasy Realms (which I really like) but too long and convuluted. At least however i can enjoy the card play a bit with less players not dragging it out. But Red Rising wasn't that hyped. Expeditions was, everyone went crazy for it, even as my clip showed, despite people having issues with it a plenty that are BIG issues, they still gave it high ratings. Expeditions also costs twice as much, has a giant box, takes longer to play, set up etc, basically it has more to justify itself with. Red Rising certainly isn't good, but it knew it was nothing more than a card game.
I really like top and flop lists and I somehow enjoyed watching this video, but I dont get why there are lists concerning a specific publisher?!
When it's the main mechanism or the theme or the complexity or the game length or the player count that makes sense BUT do you ever sit there and say "today I want to play a Stonemeier game so what are my favorites?" ;-)
I hope you get what I mean.
I think I dont even know the publisher of about a third of my games because why should I?!
It doenst have any influence on the gameplay at all.
The only time a publisher is relevant is when you need to know which stand to go at a trade fair.
So in the end this is a kind of list that everybody watches but that actually doesnt really help. :-)
I think respectfully you will be in the minority on that one, many will recognise a publisher and designer well enough.
@@TheBrokenMeeple
Designer yes.
But when I play a game, there is nothing referring to the publisher.
Viticulture and Scythe are excellent games. Wingspan would be up there except that the theme is just so so for me. Tapestry is a game I do actually like. It is flawed, but I can live with those flaws. The other stuff is pretty but rather insipid.
In most other games, people wouldn't live with balance issues, but I still don't get why Tapestry gets forgiven. And you don't like the bird theme, fair enough, Tapestry doesn't have a theme!
@@TheBrokenMeeple My proclivities are not entirely rational and, in my defence, I own Wingspan and its European expansion.
agree with your comments about Tapestry and Expeditions.... way too much for my taste as well... thanks for your comments...
Thanks for watching!
My two cents:
1) Doing asymmetric factions is really hard.
2) I love your show, but don't you think that this is the easiest way to make a lot of new enemies? Who likes to hear that they are bad at something?
3) In most of the fields: inventions, music, writing best things are done by young people. Maybe the same is in boardgames? As we getting old maybe we lose creativity and will to experiment/invent something new?
Other publishers/designers have managed to do asymmetric factions well - look at Hegemony as the poster child. There won't be many enemies here :P
I still like Top Ten videos however I’d prefer them in your style by splitting them up with lowest & highest
I reckon I can still do both, but Top Ten's will feature less on publishers/designers/mechanics and more on weird topics.
And you wonder why Jamey isn't sending you games in advance like other content creators with less followers! 😜
He he I know, can't say any bad words at all. 😏
All flawed games. Even your fav one can't hold without the replacement board. Everybody recommends buying fixes to remedy the sunk cost of their pretty base game.
Some titles have obvious power spikes -e.g. crows, Marriage of state, Patriotic- but people are oblivious in their few plays to even notice them.
I don't deny that all their games even their best ones have had issues - balance is not their strong suit.
Not a popular opinion but i really do think Stonemaier Games are overrated. The games felt average at best and priced higher than other boxes. The only thing good going forward seems to be those overproduced components…
Actually agree that Expeditions is the worst on this list. Utterly bland and unexciting. A complete dud.
I’m glad you said this- I’ve always felt like the little boy saying the emperor isn’t wearing clothes with these games. Expeditions made me want to pluck out my eyeballs. Wingspan is about as exciting as a medically induced coma. Playing tapestry is like taking sandpaper to my knob. Scythe is mildly interesting, kinda like discovering a dodgy looking mole and getting the all clear from the dermatologist.
At least you're honest about all of them, even if Wingspan is in that list! :P