The amazing rush to the Holy Land for relics began centuries after Christ's death. Some of them were supposedly gathered during the Crusades, and I would imagine locals would be prone to creating such things to sell. As for Christ's cross, it's very doubtful it would have been saved but rather re-used. Crucifixion, for all its horrors, was a routine Roman execution for its day.
And you are absolutely correct. The relic business, much like the more modern antiquities business, was very profitable. I doubt people needed much convincing then, and while some may be more skeptical now, the excitement of potentially owning something that old, especially if it has historical significance, can still cloud the mind.
@@saraross8396 I don't know about the classical period, during the medieval period attracting pilgrims was quite profitable for some churches and abbeys. There's numerous examples of that. Even by the 4th century it's possible unscrupulous people living in Palestine would have tried to pass off certain items as authentic objects from the 4 gospels.
Everyone keeps saying crucifixions were common, yes this is obvious but was Christ's crucifixion considered just another run off the mill public slaying?
Aren't taking his life story for inspiration and teachings more important than plank of wood? Think the last thing he wants when he comes back, it's being re-traumatised by people wafting that around.
I agree. Wood was hard to get hold of in this locality at the time and it was not as if a crucifixion was an extraordinary event. They happened regularly. Very regularly.
I also think they also reused the nails after straightening them. Crucifiction happened all the times, several times per year in Israel, maybe per month.
@@rolandrabier5984 Romans said to crucify a lot of people, but there is only 2 known cases of nails stuck to skeletons. So they have to had used serious recycling and not just toss stuff around. Funnily it's claimed this Helena, mother of Constantine is said to wander to Jerusalem around 326-28AD and just find 3 crosses lying at the Calvary. Seems plausible in city like Jerusalem that Romans just left 3 crosses to Calvary where they were 300 years just waiting Helena to arrive.
@@Mirokuofnite Not in ancient days.2000 years ago there were very few trees in what was judea.Theyve planted millions of trees lately but in Jesus time.The Romans had to import seige equiptment and crosses were re used.
The ancient cedar forest of Lebanon goes as far back to the story of Gilgamesh. The Cedar Tree is on the Lebanese Flag. Sadly what most ppl don't know is that the British cut down nearly all the forest in WW1 for railway sleepers.
Helena starts search for relics about 330 years after Jesus was killed.. Random guy: I know where the cross is! Helena : Where? Random guy: Three of them right here! One even has a sign on it with Jesus name on it in 3 languages! Helena: Seems legit... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Turns out that, when the mother of the Emperor comes looking for reusable wooden crosses from 3 centuries ago, and starts torturing locals, all three are found neatly isolated, well preserved and conveniently labeled wherever you want them to be. And if they get lost 8 centuries later, they get you new ones.
HOW CAN ST HELENA BE A SAINT IF SHE AUTHORIZED TORTURE TO SATISFY HER CURIOSITY. ALSO WHY DID SHE HAVE TO CUT UP THE CROSSES WITHOUT AT LEAST RECORDING THE COMPLETE CROSSES-AN ACT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL VANDALISM?
Am I incorrect in thinking that lumber was not easy to cut back in the days before sawmills? And I feel that crucifixion crosses were reused over and over until after repeated spikes inserted into it causes it to split prematurely. I certainly don't think each cross was used only once. They didn't have any respect to the person being hung, so can't see them having a mindset where a cross would be dedicated to the person being murdered on it, and buried with them as a casket would be. Not a chance. Crosses would be reused until they wouldn't hold the person or spikes anymore.
These are to make people lose focus/ perspective. Forget what Jesus preached/ commanded/ warned but try to look for the chalice/ grail/cross/shroud etc to 'prove' to yourself he existed!
@@barbararice6650 how is she going to know. It is centauries before scientific testing. I have seen so many fake relics. Christians should be shamed by this, not celebrating it.
@@benediktmorak4409300 years after the fact? Wood needs to be taken care of unless you want it to rot. Even in dry conditions it’s not that stable without care.
@user-go, That is not really true. I don't believe in all these relics as being authentic. But the mayority of parts of the 'True Cross ' are insignifant pieces of wood. Tiny splinters. Put all together they're not enough to create one arm of the cross. ( So on that subject Calvin was wrong. ) Off course, the whole story of the 'finding of the cross ' is complete nonsense ! This BS about the Titulus goes the same way. It's a waist of money to use science to proof or un-proof the authenticity of any of these objects. But let's see it this way : Imagine you are an orphan from birth. Then, someday you find a photo of , what you think is your mother. ( You never met her and you don't know what she really looked like !) Would you appreciate some inconsiderate person to tell you: " NAAH, THAH AINT YOU MOM !! THAS THE LADY WHO DANSED IN THE BAR NEKS THE BUS STATION !" But t his photo was the only link to your mother..... Sometimes the truth is just not the best answer. 😢
Three minutes in and I'll wager that this "ancient" relic hasn't been in a dendrochronologist's lab, or been radiologically dated. Jeremiah 5:21 springs to mind.
Jeremiah 5:21 says "Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see and who have ears but do not hear…" I’m having a difficult time relating that verse with this situation, but I’ll keep watching and see where it fits. I personally don’t think anything is wrong with people believing this piece of wood is off Jesus' cross, or any of the others. So long as no one is WORSHIPPING the piece of wood, what’s the harm??
I was waiting for someone to point this out. Tree rings can't be faked. Although I suppose you could find a piece of wood that old and claim it was the cross, but who would have bothered in the 1400s when they needed a boost in pilgrimage to help pay for the renovations.😉😄
@@starspike509 They also stated that the wood matches that of which the Roman's used in Palestine during the time of Jesus, it of course was Judea then, and not called Palestine till after 70AD.
I'm not convinced after watching this, the historian comes off as deseperate to believe his theory, I don't think he's going to allow anyone to challenge it.
I think if you really wanted relics of Jesus, you would need look no further than the Vatican archives. They’re the keepers of most important things, relics, documents, books, etc.
Basically, once you've staked your reputation on something I guess he can't accept its not true..... There is one case where it was shown inaccurate, it dated an item to about 700AD when we know it's from at least 570AD, but still that margin of error isn't too bad and was put down to lamp oil.
@@grumpyvet7670 When? Name a time that a scientist cherry-picked dating data and DIDN’T get run through the wringer. Because that’s tampering with data.
@@grumpyvet7670 Christian wanna-be scientists have been notorious for that. They also have a habit of not allowing their data to be looked over by the larger scientific community.
Hahaha they were believing every single clue regarding the authenticity of the cross title but when scientific analyses are done they’re like, naw heck no that doesn’t fit my agenda. lol
My church has an original wine list from the last supper. However it was known then as the first supper, printers did not have hindsight to know there would not be another.
@@peter04345 According to most paintings these guys were reserving lot of space as they all sat on the same side of the table. "We want table for 26 people!" "okay...but there is only 13 guys in your posse?" "Yeah, we all like to sit on the same side of the table...."
I love the thought of having existing relics from that time but the waters have been so muddled over the 2000 years that it's quite impossible to ever prove anything.
This is one possibility no one mentioned... If the original was decaying, then a replica carved in the same exact style might have been the next best thing... However, I lean more to the writing style being accurate... The scientific community will need to address the contamination issue much more carefully rather than to blindly stick to C-14 alone without questioning it.
See: "The Carbon Dating of the Shroud is Explained by Neutron Absorption," Rucker, 2020. This piece of wood may have been in the tomb and may have been affected by the same neutron flux that skewed the Shrouds' radiocarbon readings.
@@Asdfhjkl998 did you actually read my comment? I was quoting what he stated, because that whole argument is nuts! Forgers make mistakes all the time! Why should it be any different when it involves holy relics!
@@ADEN1961 please see my comment above, that was the point I was making! I was repeating what he states in the video and rolling my eyes at the stupidity of the comment he was making!
But when biblical artifacts are found, they help to verify God's existence. I'm not saying this piece of wood is part of the cross, but one can only hope.
wow - in this FLOOD of comments - your statement is like NOAH ARK to me ... The "Spiritual Connection" of the Holy Triune God is always out there and will be there for all eternity - it cannot be destroyed, cannot be burried, cannot be sunk , NO RELIC IS NEEDED TO PROVE GODS EXISTENCE ....................................
Helena was nothing else than a naive person. Living in the noble bubble travelling the middle east being robbed everywhere she goes by strangers saying they posses something saint ... All this history is very controversial.
There is that problem, she wasn't an expert on 1st centuy Jewish customs and culture, so unless she took an expert with her it would be difficult to know for sure what was legitimate and what wasn't. I wouldn't have a clue. She probably believed God would help guide her.
I watched a video where the water level of the Sea of Galilee exposed a boat from the 1st century CE. Right off the bat, Christians in the comment section said it was the boat Jesus was in when he walked on water.😂😂😂😂😂😂
You always get the truth when you torture someone to obtain it. "Hey - where is this thing that I'm looking for, from an event that "happened" 300 years ago?" "I dunno." Takes away food for a week and keeps them in a well...."Well, here it is." And then: Let me check with the guy who's existence depends on this relic being real. Yup. He says it checks out.
Possibly he thought he could make some money from withholding the information but she was used to getting what she wanted and wanted to make it clear she wasn't messing around.....
As for the SHROUD OF TURIN. THE SAMPLE TAKEN WAS OF A REPAIR THAT WAS ADDED IN THE later century in France where the Church that guarded it was set a fire and burned but the SHROUD WAS SAVED AND REPAIRED with new cloth of the time period.
@@ChelseaJadeCNot yet, because this would be DESTRUCTIVE analysis and the new owners would have to approve that. That said, the SHROUD has been dated by other means (FAR INFRARED SPECTROSCOPY was done nondestructively in the CENTER of the SHROUD containing the image and it confirmed a date when JESUS CHRIST lived). I am am expert in ionizing radiation detection and the particles that created the SHROUD IMAGE are so unique they could only be reproduced in the 1980s by high energy charged particle accelerators. The SHROUD IMAGE is miraculous without question and as an expert in ionizing radiation detection I can confirm this fact!!
In medieval times there were so many bits of "wood of the true cross" that you could have built a house from them. Most of those bits were said to be taken from the actual cross which was discovered by the mother of Emperor Constantine in 326 AD.
Most wood rots away over time, the wooden furniture from Pompei is unusual in being preserved. There are some wooden artefacts though from this time, in a museum I visited in Retford there is a boat dating around 5th century I think it was that is wonderfully preserved when it was uncovered in the 1980s.
Well there are bodies of Saints that haven't decomposed for hundreds of years, the tlima with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe has remained I tact for over 500 years. All is possible with God.
I can't yes I believe it is real or not. What I can say as a Christian is that it doesn't matter. Faith is something you believe in without needing physical proof. Interesting quests but for me what is in my heart is all that matters.
Except everything you have listed is fictious but Jesus Christ is real. He was God's son born of a virgin. He was innocent but crucified to save us from our sins. He rose from the dead after 3 days. He ascended into Heaven.
I remember in '64 our parish priest ,after a Holy Land visit, showing our class a sliver of 'The Cross' laying on purple cloth of a tiny wooden box ...
As an artist for 39 years and graduated of the Art Institute of Houston, I totally agree with hand writing analysis. You can't fake change. And time changes. So does writing habits and styles. The type of wood from that region that was readily available and the wet climate it was buried in makes perfect sense. What's embedded in that cross and wood would show the soil of that area which is distinct compared to other regions too. Trees have rings and history. The U.S., Russia, China, Venezuela have uranium in soil. Thats how you can tell what bomb was set off by the region and the signature of the radiation. Radiation cardon dating is fact. You can't change time and writing styles and tell me that's fake. 💯
@@troyheffernan1261, Gotta love your mental gymnastics regarding the wood being real. As an artist you should know there are ways to forge things so they appear older than what they actually are. You should also know writing styles can be copied regardless of the Era they are from.
Helena searches for Joseph of Arimathea's tomb 300 years later. Random person: It's here under the Temple of Venus (Templum Veneris/Ναός της Αφροδίτης) in Aelia Capitolina. Helena: OK....
Not true. Macarius, the Bishop of Jerusalem, cleared the pagan shrines about a year before Helena arrived. There just happened to be 1st century Jewish tombs underneath. Christians always knew where the tomb was located.
I have been a Christian for over a month now and all these videos on our lord makes. Me happy and very proud to be Christian I would it was the right thing to do and coming to god is my path praise our lord may be bless and protect everyone watching all these videos❤ amen
It was supposed to have been made by Pilot sarcastically.When the Jews complained that he carved king of the Jews the Pharisees complained and pilot told them basically to F off.
Of course they would- The rabbis, scribes and Pharisees studied Hebrew for divine worship in the Temple and the synagogues- the whole point of the inscription was to mock Christ, a rabbi. Most of the Eastern Mediterranean knew Greek, traded in Greek and travelled using Greek so this inscription makes perfect sense
Is no one going to ask the most obvious question? The whole basic of the documentary is tracing the cross Helena found & assuming from the beginning that its the genuine relic. However, the most obvious question is " 14:35 How did a wooden cross survive from 30 AD to 300+ AD in mud? "
I don't remember any mention of St Helena finding the titulus from the Cross on the occasion when she is said to have discovered the True Cross. I'm Catholic and am not familiar with this particular relic, though I have seen and venerated small slivers of wood which are taken from what tradition says is the True Cross. The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus. There's nothing implausible at at all about a piece of wood being 2000 years old especially if it had been indoors most of that time. I mean, besides the wooden letters found near Hadrian's wall even the Dead Sea Scrolls are 2000 years old and they are papyrus or leather. It does not make sense to scoff at the possibility of wood surviving. Though that does not mean that this item was from Jesus. A genuine investigation of its age would look at whether tree ring data could be gathered from it (maybe not), what species, and carbon dating.
Yes studying things like the wood itself would give a further idea if it is possible . Is it a wood that was in Jerusalem in that period ? If it isn't or is would further indicate if the carbon 14 date might indeed be questioned or should be accepted.
Why do you venerate anything, or anyone, for that matter, aside from Christ Himself? Even on the slim possibility that any piece survived, it does not make that piece any more powerful than any other piece of wood. I will tell you what it does do. It causes people to turn it and all the other relics into an idol. Hopefully, you know how God feels about idols. He is not pleased when people worship idols instead of Him, and that is exactly what people do with relics. They do the same with these "saints", who were regular people like you and I. Sainthood has been twisted into something that resembles nothing that is found in the Bible. The catholic method of becoming one does not exist in the Bible. Part of this method involves one having been dead for a certain number of years. This is a direct contradiction of what is found in Scripture. For example, in many of his letters, Paul wrote, "To the saints at (insert town)." He refers to living people, not dead. To put it plainly, a saint is merely another name for a Christian. It means nothing more special than that. Paul even had to tell some people of his day not to worship him, that he was not a god but a man, like them. Yet today, people worship him, or perhaps rather his statues, and pray to him rather than to God directly, doing the very thing he said not to. I truly hope you study your Bible to see whether the things catholicism teaches are true. I agree that it would be amazing to see or even touch something from biblical times that was connected to Jesus or any other figure. Yet I also know the danger, which is why I hope such things are never found. King Hezekiah had this exact problem with the Bronze Serpent that Moses made. People were worshipping it as an idol, and so he had it destroyed to prevent further sin.
@@saraross8396 Seriously? You don't understand the difference between the term "venerate" and "worship"? It's commonplace in English that any dignified human being might be called "venerable" because it means worthy of respect. I WORSHIP God alone. To quote myself above, "The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus." You come across as having been trained that Catholics "worship" something other than GOD which is a lie someone told you.
@@saraross8396 Seriously, being ignorant about other people's beliefs or misunderstanding others' words and jumping all over them based on gross misunderstanding does not help yourself or others. I don't know why it continually astonishes me but it's clear that some protestant churches have a whole "doctrine" of lies about Catholicism and they believe fake information designed to prejudice them against Catholic Christians and the Catholic Faith and sow confusion. It's grossly dishonest. If you want to know what Catholics believe then go to actual Catholic sources like the Catechism of the Catholic Church where you can actually get a straight answer.
imagine if Jesus came back and saw us all having crosses everywhere and cherishing the wood ...he'd be like "hm they celebrate my pain on that cross?" and goes home lol
The part that requires the most scrutiny in my opinion is the acquisition of the crosses originally. Many people were crucified and I’d think the last thing someone would save is a tool of execution. Do people save ropes from hangings or axes from veheadibgs? You’d think they wouldn’t and how would they have taken it?
Actually people DID save the rope from hangings, it was thought to bring luck... Also, locks of hair and such.... handkerchiefs dipped in blood from beheadings... Most of them found out to be BS though. But they did keep Cromwell's head.
Maybe, though I would think once the big nails have been hammered through the wrists and heel and through the wood I don't know if it could be used a second time if there's now a hole where the new nails would need to go?
You'd probably be surprised... People have been fascinated by capital punishment right throughout history. Just think about the Romans & their Gladiators, or finding amusement in watching lions devour early Christians. Even in the middle ages people would treat a hanging like a day out for a picnic & collect souvenirs from the deceased. Observers by the thousands attended & tried to collect locks of hair from those subjected to the guillotine during the French revolution. There's actually a market even now for macabre items from all sorts of crimes & criminals nowdays.
His cross was supposedly Rosewood tree,very sturdy and heavy-and those bastards made Jesus carry this cross to the site after he was beaten severely. Sure this wood piece is NOT the original,but it does get the Crucifixion story heard qgain
From what I remember reading about the sample taken for carbon dating from the shroud was from the area of the shroad that was repaired back in that date after the damage. If that is the case why have they not returned to test the rest of it ? I dont think they want to know what the true results would be. It would raise alot of questions.
Do you think we're stupid? Just because Helena claimed to have found the relics, that doesn't mean she didn't invent them or elaborate them. This whole programme is an exploration of human gullibility, starting with that of the researcher who begins with a preconceived idea of what we will find.
Don't forget folks, Odyssey is infotainment. Lax on accuracy, heavy on asthetic. Don't take these vids as documentary, they are closer to fiction than to fact.
The pieces from the shroud wete taken from an area that had been repaired about the time that those results show. They did Not take a piece from the unrepaired part of the shroud.
A famous man once said "There are enough pieces of the 'true cross' to build a Ship of the line". Also Four Churches have "the Skull of John the Baptist" (The Pope declared ALL of them true) INDEED! if he had 4 heads, perhaps all the people came to see him for reasons other to be baptized. (I'd like to see THAT too ;) )
Hesseman should be commended for his hard work in digging out records. Why would he lie about the documents he found? If the historical accounts of Helena's work in the search are true, then it's a clear depiction of the Dark Heart of the Roman Catholic Church. To torture someone who knew the location of the cross is horrifying to a true believer. Do I believe this is really part of the crucifix of Jesus the Christ? Possibly. Do I think it matters? Nothing of this physical 3D plane holds power nor is significant to God's Kingdom. This is interesting but the controversy is a distraction.
You love God because he will send you to hell if you don't. Think about how messed up that is. Remove your Christian lenses for a moment and think outside that box
If iam right there wasn't much timber around in them days. So if it didn't get used as timber building will it would have been Burt cooking someone's breakfast or as ashes used for warming up.
If it's authentic, then maybe it's a part of the original cross upon which King Izas Manu of Edessa (the Nazarene Leader of the Jewish Revolt) was crucified and then taken down before his death by Josephus circa AD 69 (in our modern calendar).
Belief doesn’t make something true. Belief changes your perception and it also makes it easier to make the evidence unintentionally fit the facts, even when they don’t.
@@franklulatowskijr.6974 In the German langauge there is a proverb - Gladden heisst nicht wissen-, freely translated - Believing does mean one knows nothing -...
No, the Romans didn't reuse them, they got new ones every time at "Deposito Domestico" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (never mind the cross, Jesus wasn't real either).
Exactly, a historian should be lead by the evidence, not a quest to prove or disprove something. You can see this man has staked his reputation on being right and is now trapped.
So which true cross did the Crusaders lose in the cataclysmic battle loss at Hattin in 1187 ? So many crosses & so many bones of Saints it's hard to keep track tbh.
The Man Hessmann is correct about this scenario that writing styles change and the period of the style of writing on the relics is of the First Century and the People of the NINTH CENTURY did not know of this scenario because the scientific literature was not available! If you lived in the NINTH CENTURY you only knew about that era of writing style and not of the ancient past periods. Because the study of this science was not created yet. To the people of the NINTH CENTURY it was a mystery!
Why is it so important? My faith is stronger. I don't need trinkets that may or not be part of religious significance. Faith will get you through heavens door, not trinket hunting.
They did with their saints, their attitudes were quite different to modern attitudes to conserving and preserving important historical objects. They were even happy to rip down the old vatican to build a new one. It was all about allowing the various churches across Europe to have a share.
The shroud of Turin would be a very plausible item as the image of Jesus could be on a linen placed over him following crucifixion from dirt and blood. However for the item to still exist knowingly is highly improbable
Human corpses are not capable of imprinting their images on cloth. But this one did and no one can explain how that happened. the images have been carefully examined by scientists using tons of equipment. They are not "blood and dirt."
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
The amazing rush to the Holy Land for relics began centuries after Christ's death. Some of them were supposedly gathered during the Crusades, and I would imagine locals would be prone to creating such things to sell. As for Christ's cross, it's very doubtful it would have been saved but rather re-used. Crucifixion, for all its horrors, was a routine Roman execution for its day.
And you are absolutely correct. The relic business, much like the more modern antiquities business, was very profitable. I doubt people needed much convincing then, and while some may be more skeptical now, the excitement of potentially owning something that old, especially if it has historical significance, can still cloud the mind.
@@saraross8396 I don't know about the classical period, during the medieval period attracting pilgrims was quite profitable for some churches and abbeys. There's numerous examples of that.
Even by the 4th century it's possible unscrupulous people living in Palestine would have tried to pass off certain items as authentic objects from the 4 gospels.
Everyone keeps saying crucifixions were common, yes this is obvious but was Christ's crucifixion considered just another run off the mill public slaying?
Aren't taking his life story for inspiration and teachings more important than plank of wood? Think the last thing he wants when he comes back, it's being re-traumatised by people wafting that around.
Yeah I was thinking that too! They would not bury the cross w the ppl.
I would think that the Romans reused the crosses rather than make a new one for every crucification.
I agree. Wood was hard to get hold of in this locality at the time and it was not as if a crucifixion was an extraordinary event. They happened regularly. Very regularly.
They did
I also think they also reused the nails after straightening them. Crucifiction happened all the times, several times per year in Israel, maybe per month.
@@rolandrabier5984 Romans said to crucify a lot of people, but there is only 2 known cases of nails stuck to skeletons. So they have to had used serious recycling and not just toss stuff around. Funnily it's claimed this Helena, mother of Constantine is said to wander to Jerusalem around 326-28AD and just find 3 crosses lying at the Calvary. Seems plausible in city like Jerusalem that Romans just left 3 crosses to Calvary where they were 300 years just waiting Helena to arrive.
@@TJS3 Yeah, I thought that was rather silly also.
The Romans probably reuse the crosses. Hence the all trace of the true cross would have been lost in administrate indifference.
They definitely re used crosses,Wood was very scarce in Judea back then.
Plenty of cedar trees in the area. Before the Ottoman Tree Tax
@@Mirokuofnite Not in ancient days.2000 years ago there were very few trees in what was judea.Theyve planted millions of trees lately but in Jesus time.The Romans had to import seige equiptment and crosses were re used.
The ancient cedar forest of Lebanon goes as far back to the story of Gilgamesh. The Cedar Tree is on the Lebanese Flag. Sadly what most ppl don't know is that the British cut down nearly all the forest in WW1 for railway sleepers.
@@scottyfox6376 Tragic
Don't believe everything you get off the internet.
- Pontius Pilate-
Lol
Ahahahaaaa
I've been scammed so many times with various purchases...
It's getting worse even Amazon isn't what it used to be.
But be sure to wash your hands 🙌 😂
"What is truth?" _Pontius Pilate- That one is real, straight out of the Bible.
Helena starts search for relics about 330 years after Jesus was killed..
Random guy: I know where the cross is!
Helena : Where?
Random guy: Three of them right here! One even has a sign on it with Jesus name on it in 3 languages!
Helena: Seems legit...
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
They saw her coming.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
You're such a protestant
I know exactly where the Spanish founded st augustine 400 years ago
They knocked down the church n dug not just right here lol why u so mad
Turns out that, when the mother of the Emperor comes looking for reusable wooden crosses from 3 centuries ago, and starts torturing locals, all three are found neatly isolated, well preserved and conveniently labeled wherever you want them to be. And if they get lost 8 centuries later, they get you new ones.
HOW CAN ST HELENA BE A SAINT IF SHE AUTHORIZED TORTURE TO SATISFY HER CURIOSITY. ALSO WHY DID SHE HAVE TO CUT UP THE CROSSES WITHOUT AT LEAST RECORDING THE COMPLETE CROSSES-AN ACT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL VANDALISM?
@@JOHNOGLANDER-b3z why all caps?
@@christianhoffman7407 Why*
I don't think she would have returned empty handed to her son the emperor, unfortunately
Summed up nicely 😎👍🏻
Am I incorrect in thinking that lumber was not easy to cut back in the days before sawmills? And I feel that crucifixion crosses were reused over and over until after repeated spikes inserted into it causes it to split prematurely. I certainly don't think each cross was used only once. They didn't have any respect to the person being hung, so can't see them having a mindset where a cross would be dedicated to the person being murdered on it, and buried with them as a casket would be. Not a chance. Crosses would be reused until they wouldn't hold the person or spikes anymore.
These are to make people lose focus/ perspective. Forget what Jesus preached/ commanded/ warned but try to look for the chalice/ grail/cross/shroud etc to 'prove' to yourself he existed!
If you have faith, no need for relics
It's inspiring...not required or needed.
I've got this one folks.......No it couldn't, cool story though
😂😂😂
What is your evidence, please?
@@StevesSlideandJazz what’s YOURS! 😂😂😂
@@marcuscrumpton8568you know you lost the argument when you have to answer a question with a question.
Thx for taking this one. I needed a rest.
The question that everybody forgot to ask is: Why did the crosses and the tablet were in a cistern for 300 and some years until they were found?
And they did not rot!
Easy: persecution.
So your looking for pieces of wood 400 years after the fact, you are asking to be conned.
There is a cottage industry at the base of mt Ararat of creating and selling authentic pieces of Noah’s ark.
If I or you ask for it yeah, but the emperor's mum who is going to con her 🤔
It could be true 😐
@@barbararice6650 how is she going to know. It is centauries before scientific testing. I have seen so many fake relics. Christians should be shamed by this, not celebrating it.
@@barbararice6650 It could be true that Santa lives at the north pole and make toys there too. It could be true.
@barbararice6650 , Special pleading for Helen I see. She's was just a gullible and naive as the rest of the Christians and theists.
There is apparently enough "original" wood from the cross to build a three bedroom house
So NO.
And enough nails from the cross as well.
the true cross house.
so they say,same about nails or bones or what have you not.
But who says the one or other piece of - evidence - might not be the real thing?
@@benediktmorak4409300 years after the fact? Wood needs to be taken care of unless you want it to rot. Even in dry conditions it’s not that stable without care.
@user-go,
That is not really true. I don't believe in all these relics as being authentic. But the mayority of parts of the 'True Cross ' are insignifant pieces of wood. Tiny splinters.
Put all together they're not enough to create one arm of the cross. ( So on that subject Calvin was wrong. )
Off course, the whole story of the 'finding of the cross ' is complete nonsense !
This BS about the Titulus goes the same way.
It's a waist of money to use science to proof or un-proof the authenticity of any of these objects.
But let's see it this way :
Imagine you are an orphan from birth.
Then, someday you find a photo of , what you think is your mother. ( You never met her and you don't know what she really looked like !)
Would you appreciate some inconsiderate person to tell you: " NAAH, THAH AINT YOU MOM !! THAS THE LADY WHO DANSED IN THE BAR NEKS THE BUS STATION !"
But t his photo was the only link to your mother.....
Sometimes the truth is just not the best answer. 😢
Three minutes in and I'll wager that this "ancient" relic hasn't been in a dendrochronologist's lab, or been radiologically dated.
Jeremiah 5:21 springs to mind.
I'm into this 20 minutes and still waiting for any mention of those evidentiary tree rings. They don't lie.
Jeremiah 5:21 says "Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see and who have ears but do not hear…"
I’m having a difficult time relating that verse with this situation, but I’ll keep watching and see where it fits. I personally don’t think anything is wrong with people believing this piece of wood is off Jesus' cross, or any of the others. So long as no one is WORSHIPPING the piece of wood, what’s the harm??
I was waiting for someone to point this out. Tree rings can't be faked. Although I suppose you could find a piece of wood that old and claim it was the cross, but who would have bothered in the 1400s when they needed a boost in pilgrimage to help pay for the renovations.😉😄
Im no expert but the Hebrew looks surprisingly modern for the time period? I half expected to see some paleo variations especially with Resh.
Same but I think they weren't using Palo hewbrew anymore. But I'm not sure I'll have look it up.
Nope never mind they were using it after they came back from Babylon
This video has the Dome of the Rock in it which was built several hundred years later than Helena’s travels.
Yeah, I guess they couldn't find any 600 year old stock footage of the original site. 😏
@@starspike509 They also stated that the wood matches that of which the Roman's used in Palestine during the time of Jesus, it of course was Judea then, and not called Palestine till after 70AD.
@@JLCra87Actually, the Romans and the Greeks before them called it Palestine. Before them, the Persians called it Jehud. Judea was its Assyrian name.
I'm not convinced after watching this, the historian comes off as deseperate to believe his theory, I don't think he's going to allow anyone to challenge it.
I think if you really wanted relics of Jesus, you would need look no further than the Vatican archives. They’re the keepers of most important things, relics, documents, books, etc.
unfortunately yes
If it's a religious artifact, and any of it exists on the Earth, I agree. It's probably in Rome.
Its deep underground
One question. Why on this supposed fragment are the Greek letters mirrored? Greeks always wrote left to right.
This is the problem when a historian sets out to prove or disprove something. A historian should just be lead by the evidence.....
“Carbon 14 dating only works when I want it to.”
Basically, once you've staked your reputation on something I guess he can't accept its not true.....
There is one case where it was shown inaccurate, it dated an item to about 700AD when we know it's from at least 570AD, but still that margin of error isn't too bad and was put down to lamp oil.
Atheist scientists do the same thing!
@@grumpyvet7670 When? Name a time that a scientist cherry-picked dating data and DIDN’T get run through the wringer. Because that’s tampering with data.
@@grumpyvet7670 Christian wanna-be scientists have been notorious for that. They also have a habit of not allowing their data to be looked over by the larger scientific community.
That is such an ignorant comment I am shocked you can write
Hahaha they were believing every single clue regarding the authenticity of the cross title but when scientific analyses are done they’re like, naw heck no that doesn’t fit my agenda. lol
Literally everyone everywhere all the time
Pieces of the cross and nails were best sellers at the gift shop
I believe my church has the relic of the Holy Toothpick from the last supper.
My church has an original wine list from the last supper. However it was known then as the first supper, printers did not have hindsight to know there would not be another.
@@peter04345 According to most paintings these guys were reserving lot of space as they all sat on the same side of the table. "We want table for 26 people!" "okay...but there is only 13 guys in your posse?" "Yeah, we all like to sit on the same side of the table...."
Nah they just moved around for the photo.
No that is buried at oak island
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I love the thought of having existing relics from that time but the waters have been so muddled over the 2000 years that it's quite impossible to ever prove anything.
This is one possibility no one mentioned... If the original was decaying, then a replica carved in the same exact style might have been the next best thing... However, I lean more to the writing style being accurate... The scientific community will need to address the contamination issue much more carefully rather than to blindly stick to C-14 alone without questioning it.
See: "The Carbon Dating of the Shroud is Explained by Neutron Absorption," Rucker, 2020.
This piece of wood may have been in the tomb and may have been affected by the same neutron flux that skewed the Shrouds' radiocarbon readings.
So Helena sponsored the first archeological dig.
But at that time they had no accurate way to date decayed wood.
Pseudo-Archeology
Never underestimate the mental gymnastic abilities of theists when it come to their religion.
if all the bits of the 'true cross'''' were joined together you could build chatres cathedral, or a cross nobody could carry = power pylon size
If I could gather all the pieces of the true cross, I could keep my stove burning for decades.
This video isn't about that. It's about Pilate's sign on the cross.
When wild speculation meets credulity...
“No forger would ever make spelling mistakes in a forgery!” 🙄🙄
In bible have wrong info first greek to latin and athers soooo
@@Asdfhjkl998 did you actually read my comment? I was quoting what he stated, because that whole argument is nuts! Forgers make mistakes all the time! Why should it be any different when it involves holy relics!
we can tell forgeries by the spelling mistakes Chinese porcelain has different writing to modern day . forgers dont always grasp that
@@ADEN1961 please see my comment above, that was the point I was making! I was repeating what he states in the video and rolling my eyes at the stupidity of the comment he was making!
@@lindathomas5500 yes I did get your meaning it just reminded me of experiences I had with fake stuff lol
Who needs a material relic when you’ve got a spiritual connection anyway?
But when biblical artifacts are found, they help to verify God's existence. I'm not saying this piece of wood is part of the cross, but one can only hope.
Amen
wow - in this FLOOD of comments -
your statement is like NOAH ARK to me ...
The "Spiritual Connection" of the Holy Triune God is always out there and will be there for all eternity - it cannot be destroyed, cannot be burried, cannot be sunk ,
NO RELIC IS NEEDED TO PROVE GODS EXISTENCE ....................................
Helena was nothing else than a naive person. Living in the noble bubble travelling the middle east being robbed everywhere she goes by strangers saying they posses something saint ... All this history is very controversial.
There is that problem, she wasn't an expert on 1st centuy Jewish customs and culture, so unless she took an expert with her it would be difficult to know for sure what was legitimate and what wasn't. I wouldn't have a clue. She probably believed God would help guide her.
When one starts out saying I believe this is a part of the true cross all credibility is lost.
I watched a video where the water level of the Sea of Galilee exposed a boat from the 1st century CE. Right off the bat, Christians in the comment section said it was the boat Jesus was in when he walked on water.😂😂😂😂😂😂
Prove your evidence it isnt. 🥴🤡
@@tommy70888, Here we go again with Christians shifting the burden of proof.
@tommy70888 , A Christian shifting the burden of proof. Why am I not shocked?
@@samuelschick8813 not a christian nor am i religious. But u can keep assuming🥴🤡 why am i not shocked.
You always get the truth when you torture someone to obtain it. "Hey - where is this thing that I'm looking for, from an event that "happened" 300 years ago?" "I dunno." Takes away food for a week and keeps them in a well...."Well, here it is." And then: Let me check with the guy who's existence depends on this relic being real. Yup. He says it checks out.
EVIDENCE OBTAINED THROUGH TORTURE IS GENERALLY COSIDWEWD UNRELIABLE AS THE PERSON BEING TORTURED WOULD SAY ANYTHING TO STOP THE TORTURE.
Some things never change
Possibly he thought he could make some money from withholding the information but she was used to getting what she wanted and wanted to make it clear she wasn't messing around.....
It's not like he knew he was going to be tortured and so went and made crosses himself then buried them under there before he was born
Short answer, no. Long answer, no. Fools
So Helena tortures a guy to find out where the cross was buried and then she's made a saint by the church..smh
No because He was crucified on an execution stake Cross never executed. Roman's didn't have room of 36' between stakes IGNORANCE
You mean the way the rest of the so called saints murdered their way across the known world forcing Christianity on all.
By roman standards that probably wasn't torture.....
@@lw3646hahaha
It's Christian logic, they have made a lot of serial killers saints.
Helena, an ancient version of Ron Wyatt.
How bloody long do you think a wee bit of wood lasts
outside the natural history museum there's a tree trunk fossil that is 100 million years old
@@diorocks5858 fossil…not STILL wood
Neolithic bows have been found in Europe. Star Carr site for example.
@@mrjohn.whereyoufrom ahhhhhh fair one…thank you!
@@marcuscrumpton8568 Yes Sir its fossilized as we well know, but for some its still wood unfortunately.
You surely wouldnt go by land from Constantinople to Jerusalem, you'd go by ship, much faster and also easier to bring heavy objects home.
As for the SHROUD OF TURIN. THE SAMPLE TAKEN WAS OF A REPAIR THAT WAS ADDED IN THE later century in France where the Church that guarded it was set a fire and burned but the SHROUD WAS SAVED AND REPAIRED with new cloth of the time period.
HELLO,,, IF YOU AND I KNOW THAT, THEN WHAT IT WRONG WITH THE
PRODUCERS OF THIS, SO CALLED INVESTIGATION ?????????
So true. Do you know if they retested it with a piece of material further into the shroud?
@@ChelseaJadeCNot yet, because this would be DESTRUCTIVE analysis and the new owners would have to approve that. That said, the SHROUD has been dated by other means (FAR INFRARED SPECTROSCOPY was done nondestructively in the CENTER of the SHROUD containing the image and it confirmed a date when JESUS CHRIST lived).
I am am expert in ionizing radiation detection and the particles that created the SHROUD IMAGE are so unique they could only be reproduced in the 1980s by high energy charged particle accelerators. The SHROUD IMAGE is miraculous without question and as an expert in ionizing radiation detection I can confirm this fact!!
@@ChelseaJadeC No one has been able to get one. It took months of arguing over what they got last time.
@@debbibowen they don't want the truth revealed
In medieval times there were so many bits of "wood of the true cross" that you could have built a house from them. Most of those bits were said to be taken from the actual cross which was discovered by the mother of Emperor Constantine in 326 AD.
Why would Helena chop up the most amazing relic in all Christendom? And how could wood stay intact buried in dirt for a millennium or more?
Most wood rots away over time, the wooden furniture from Pompei is unusual in being preserved. There are some wooden artefacts though from this time, in a museum I visited in Retford there is a boat dating around 5th century I think it was that is wonderfully preserved when it was uncovered in the 1980s.
Well there are bodies of Saints that haven't decomposed for hundreds of years, the tlima with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe has remained I tact for over 500 years. All is possible with God.
I can't yes I believe it is real or not. What I can say as a Christian is that it doesn't matter. Faith is something you believe in without needing physical proof. Interesting quests but for me what is in my heart is all that matters.
Do the fairy godmother's wand next, and I'd like to see Sauron on the list. Not to mention Goofy's shoes.
Ever see the cool documentey on the search for who your real dad is? Here's a hint, it can't be every guy in the bar your mom stays at every weekend.
Except everything you have listed is fictious but Jesus Christ is real. He was God's son born of a virgin. He was innocent but crucified to save us from our sins. He rose from the dead after 3 days. He ascended into Heaven.
I remember in '64 our parish priest ,after a Holy Land visit, showing our class a sliver of 'The Cross' laying on purple cloth of a tiny wooden box ...
Most likely not! 😄
Almost certainly not!
As an artist for 39 years and graduated of the Art Institute of Houston, I totally agree with hand writing analysis. You can't fake change. And time changes. So does writing habits and styles.
The type of wood from that region that was readily available and the wet climate it was buried in makes perfect sense. What's embedded in that cross and wood would show the soil of that area which is distinct compared to other regions too.
Trees have rings and history.
The U.S., Russia, China, Venezuela have uranium in soil. Thats how you can tell what bomb was set off by the region and the signature of the radiation. Radiation cardon dating is fact. You can't change time and writing styles and tell me that's fake. 💯
A piece of old wood with an inscription scratched into it is not sufficient proof !😂
@starspike509 if you sign your checks and don't want your personal identity stolen it is lol🤣
@@troyheffernan1261, Gotta love your mental gymnastics regarding the wood being real. As an artist you should know there are ways to forge things so they appear older than what they actually are. You should also know writing styles can be copied regardless of the Era they are from.
Helena searches for Joseph of Arimathea's tomb 300 years later.
Random person: It's here under the Temple of Venus (Templum Veneris/Ναός της Αφροδίτης) in Aelia Capitolina.
Helena: OK....
Not true. Macarius, the Bishop of Jerusalem, cleared the pagan shrines about a year before Helena arrived. There just happened to be 1st century Jewish tombs underneath. Christians always knew where the tomb was located.
@@luke3807 They didn't know when Hadrian had the temple built over it and there were many tombs in judea.
@@md69k5 After the Bar Kokhba revolt
I have been a Christian for over a month now and all these videos on our lord makes. Me happy and very proud to be Christian I would it was the right thing to do and coming to god is my path praise our lord may be bless and protect everyone watching all these videos❤ amen
I'll save you all the 49 minutes: No.
Thank you 💯
@27:00. They hid it because their was a rift. The Iconoclasts would have destroyed it to keep it from being worshipped. Many relic's were destroyed.
No Roman administrator would have had the label written in Hebrew. He would have it written in a language most people would understand: Aramaic.
Correct. Or possibly Latin? But would the populace even be literate enough even to read it?
It was supposed to have been made by Pilot sarcastically.When the Jews complained that he carved king of the Jews the Pharisees complained and pilot told them basically to F off.
Of course they would- The rabbis, scribes and Pharisees studied Hebrew for divine worship in the Temple and the synagogues- the whole point of the inscription was to mock Christ, a rabbi. Most of the Eastern Mediterranean knew Greek, traded in Greek and travelled using Greek so this inscription makes perfect sense
@@josi4251 The greatest literacy would have been in Greek. Latin for the army clerks. Hebrew - a waste of time.
@@MsMike651true, but not sarcastically, I think it was a jab at the pharasiees since he didn't want to do it
Is no one going to ask the most obvious question? The whole basic of the documentary is tracing the cross Helena found & assuming from the beginning that its the genuine relic. However, the most obvious question is " 14:35 How did a wooden cross survive from 30 AD to 300+ AD in mud? "
To be fair, they did answer that if you watch it.
@@gregorymonaco793 did they really? Timestamp please. I might have missed it.
I'm 25 mins into the show and so far nothing they have said is true.
Look at the shock on my face.
If you took all the pieces of wood that were supposed to be of the true cross across medieval Europe, you could build a cathedral with it.
I was thinking more along the lines of part of the sign to Noah's park!
The tablet would only be 300 years old, not 2000 years old when Helena found it?
I don't remember any mention of St Helena finding the titulus from the Cross on the occasion when she is said to have discovered the True Cross. I'm Catholic and am not familiar with this particular relic, though I have seen and venerated small slivers of wood which are taken from what tradition says is the True Cross. The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus. There's nothing implausible at at all about a piece of wood being 2000 years old especially if it had been indoors most of that time. I mean, besides the wooden letters found near Hadrian's wall even the Dead Sea Scrolls are 2000 years old and they are papyrus or leather. It does not make sense to scoff at the possibility of wood surviving. Though that does not mean that this item was from Jesus. A genuine investigation of its age would look at whether tree ring data could be gathered from it (maybe not), what species, and carbon dating.
Yes studying things like the wood itself would give a further idea if it is possible . Is it a wood that was in Jerusalem in that period ? If it isn't or is would further indicate if the carbon 14 date might indeed be questioned or should be accepted.
Why do you venerate anything, or anyone, for that matter, aside from Christ Himself? Even on the slim possibility that any piece survived, it does not make that piece any more powerful than any other piece of wood. I will tell you what it does do. It causes people to turn it and all the other relics into an idol. Hopefully, you know how God feels about idols. He is not pleased when people worship idols instead of Him, and that is exactly what people do with relics. They do the same with these "saints", who were regular people like you and I. Sainthood has been twisted into something that resembles nothing that is found in the Bible. The catholic method of becoming one does not exist in the Bible. Part of this method involves one having been dead for a certain number of years. This is a direct contradiction of what is found in Scripture. For example, in many of his letters, Paul wrote, "To the saints at (insert town)." He refers to living people, not dead. To put it plainly, a saint is merely another name for a Christian. It means nothing more special than that. Paul even had to tell some people of his day not to worship him, that he was not a god but a man, like them. Yet today, people worship him, or perhaps rather his statues, and pray to him rather than to God directly, doing the very thing he said not to.
I truly hope you study your Bible to see whether the things catholicism teaches are true. I agree that it would be amazing to see or even touch something from biblical times that was connected to Jesus or any other figure. Yet I also know the danger, which is why I hope such things are never found. King Hezekiah had this exact problem with the Bronze Serpent that Moses made. People were worshipping it as an idol, and so he had it destroyed to prevent further sin.
@@saraross8396 Seriously? You don't understand the difference between the term "venerate" and "worship"? It's commonplace in English that any dignified human being might be called "venerable" because it means worthy of respect. I WORSHIP God alone. To quote myself above, "The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus." You come across as having been trained that Catholics "worship" something other than GOD which is a lie someone told you.
@@saraross8396 Seriously, being ignorant about other people's beliefs or misunderstanding others' words and jumping all over them based on gross misunderstanding does not help yourself or others. I don't know why it continually astonishes me but it's clear that some protestant churches have a whole "doctrine" of lies about Catholicism and they believe fake information designed to prejudice them against Catholic Christians and the Catholic Faith and sow confusion. It's grossly dishonest. If you want to know what Catholics believe then go to actual Catholic sources like the Catechism of the Catholic Church where you can actually get a straight answer.
Great ideas within this answer
.
imagine if Jesus came back and saw us all having crosses everywhere and cherishing the wood ...he'd be like "hm they celebrate my pain on that cross?" and goes home lol
Eyeroll......false prophets everywhere....jeezzzz
Protestant?
@@rodolforivera7083 Realist.
@@Sherrill965 how real is the science?
That a hunk of wood they found that they worship is a part of the cross??? NO science, all fantasy.@@rodolforivera7083
The part that requires the most scrutiny in my opinion is the acquisition of the crosses originally. Many people were crucified and I’d think the last thing someone would save is a tool of execution. Do people save ropes from hangings or axes from veheadibgs? You’d think they wouldn’t and how would they have taken it?
Actually people DID save the rope from hangings, it was thought to bring luck...
Also, locks of hair and such.... handkerchiefs dipped in blood from beheadings...
Most of them found out to be BS though. But they did keep Cromwell's head.
Maybe, though I would think once the big nails have been hammered through the wrists and heel and through the wood I don't know if it could be used a second time if there's now a hole where the new nails would need to go?
You'd probably be surprised...
People have been fascinated by capital punishment right throughout history.
Just think about the Romans & their Gladiators, or finding amusement in watching lions devour early Christians.
Even in the middle ages people would treat a hanging like a day out for a picnic & collect souvenirs from the deceased.
Observers by the thousands attended & tried to collect locks of hair from those subjected to the guillotine during the French revolution.
There's actually a market even now for macabre items from all sorts of crimes & criminals nowdays.
Helena: " These are pieces of the true cross. How do you know they are? Because I said they are."
"Yes, but how do you know?"
"...execute this one!"
😅
Amazing work 👍✝️
His cross was supposedly Rosewood tree,very sturdy and heavy-and those bastards made Jesus carry this cross to the site after he was beaten severely. Sure this wood piece is NOT the original,but it does get the Crucifixion story heard qgain
I think it's worth pointing out that according to the definition of "bastard", Jesus was also a bastard.
From what I remember reading about the sample taken for carbon dating from the shroud was from the area of the shroad that was repaired back in that date after the damage. If that is the case why have they not returned to test the rest of it ? I dont think they want to know what the true results would be. It would raise alot of questions.
Nuns in the Middle Ages sewed a repair cloth onto the side of Shroud of Turin. That was where scientists did their erroneous carbon dating….
nope, they've taken many samples and they're all fake.
@@El_Rey_de_Monterrey
Incorrect: "samples (are) all fake"
ruclips.net/video/xq5kHkoj904/видео.html
Citation needed
That was in the 1500s I thought so not medieval anymore.
@@offbrandsoup2579
ruclips.net/video/ocVpIoxj52U/видео.html
Do you think we're stupid? Just because Helena claimed to have found the relics, that doesn't mean she didn't invent them or elaborate them. This whole programme is an exploration of human gullibility, starting with that of the researcher who begins with a preconceived idea of what we will find.
Don't forget folks, Odyssey is infotainment. Lax on accuracy, heavy on asthetic. Don't take these vids as documentary, they are closer to fiction than to fact.
“Heavy on aesthetic” is being VERY kind.
"Closer to fiction than fact." That describes religion.
@@samuelschick8813 Are you sure?
@@bradrichards8122, Yes.
@@bradrichards8122, Yes.
It HAS to be true because they WANT it to be true. Keep searching until you find someone who'll agree with you.
The pieces from the shroud wete taken from an area that had been repaired about the time that those results show. They did Not take a piece from the unrepaired part of the shroud.
@user-gz2qh1ie8d The scientists who took the sample were incompetents. Maybe the true believers did not want a valid test. Oh ye of little faith.
Carbon dating are less accurate, the wood can be contiminated easily.
Citation needed
@@offbrandsoup2579there won’t be a citation because there is no such thing.
Mio Dio mio Dio...... perché mi hai abbandonato........ mio Dio Dio mio mio tutto nelle tue mani affido tutto..... portale su' in Paradiso Hammen.
A famous man once said "There are enough pieces of the 'true cross' to build a Ship of the line". Also Four Churches have "the Skull of John the Baptist" (The Pope declared ALL of them true) INDEED! if he had 4 heads, perhaps all the people came to see him for reasons other to be baptized. (I'd like to see THAT too ;) )
The Catholic church also claims to have the foreskin of Jesus. And in 4,5 churches at the same time.
Hesseman should be commended for his hard work in digging out records. Why would he lie about the documents he found? If the historical accounts of Helena's work in the search are true, then it's a clear depiction of the Dark Heart of the Roman Catholic Church. To torture someone who knew the location of the cross is horrifying to a true believer. Do I believe this is really part of the crucifix of Jesus the Christ? Possibly. Do I think it matters? Nothing of this physical 3D plane holds power nor is significant to God's Kingdom. This is interesting but the controversy is a distraction.
Seek The Lord. Forget about souvenirs.
Ask Him to Forgive Your Sins.
Ask Him to Save You From Hell.
You love God because he will send you to hell if you don't. Think about how messed up that is. Remove your Christian lenses for a moment and think outside that box
If iam right there wasn't much timber around in them days. So if it didn't get used as timber building will it would have been Burt cooking someone's breakfast or as ashes used for warming up.
The cross on which Jesus died was not used once, it was used before and after Jesus many times, even the nails were straightened and resused.
The simple answer is dendrochronology. Impossible to fake. Completely definitive.
If it's authentic, then maybe it's a part of the original cross upon which King Izas Manu of Edessa (the Nazarene Leader of the Jewish Revolt) was crucified and then taken down before his death by Josephus circa AD 69 (in our modern calendar).
I thought it said Jesus by name?
They could build a battleship with the amount of wood from that cross they have recovered.
Great documentary as always
In innocent's abroad Mark Twain observed there were so many pieces of the true cross you could rebuild it.
if one believes, one needs no proof. And if one does not believe, all the proof will not convince...
That's not how proof works. Proof keeps being true even if you don't believe in it.
When one believes, no amount of evidence from scientific testing will be accepted.
@@juliantherussian7752 the sun comes up tomorrow and it will be day after night. any proof? there is not.but i know it will be like that. every day.
Belief doesn’t make something true. Belief changes your perception and it also makes it easier to make the evidence unintentionally fit the facts, even when they don’t.
@@franklulatowskijr.6974 In the German langauge there is a proverb -
Gladden heisst nicht wissen-,
freely translated
- Believing does mean one knows nothing -...
No, the Romans didn't reuse them, they got new ones every time at "Deposito Domestico" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (never mind the cross, Jesus wasn't real either).
If its fake; does this make Jesus fake?
If she found it awesome if not so what. Truth is Jesus was real. JESUS DID DIE on a cross for our sins and hes coming back. Very very soon. Maranthna
Why would someone want to refute this? If it isn’t you’re hurting someone else’s faith. That’s despicable!
Here's a hint: being on a quest to prove something is not how an actual historian should look at what he's doing.
Exactly, a historian should be lead by the evidence, not a quest to prove or disprove something. You can see this man has staked his reputation on being right and is now trapped.
So which true cross did the Crusaders lose in the cataclysmic battle loss at Hattin in 1187 ? So many crosses & so many bones of Saints it's hard to keep track tbh.
From having people tortured to find a cross to canonized
Worshipping a piece of wood, sounds a bit pagan to me. Down with this sort of thing!😃
The Man Hessmann is correct about this scenario that writing styles change and the period of the style of writing on the relics is of the First Century and the People of the NINTH CENTURY did not know of this scenario because the scientific literature was not available! If you lived in the NINTH CENTURY you only knew about that era of writing style and not of the ancient past periods. Because the study of this science was not created yet. To the people of the NINTH CENTURY it was a mystery!
Why is it so important? My faith is stronger. I don't need trinkets that may or not be part of religious significance. Faith will get you through heavens door, not trinket hunting.
Whatever the case True Believers, carry Christ within, and benefit from his sacrifice...He lives within us, Forever 🙏
If they’d really found this stuff
Do you really think they’d hack it up
After digging it up and finding it all in one piece!
They did with their saints, their attitudes were quite different to modern attitudes to conserving and preserving important historical objects. They were even happy to rip down the old vatican to build a new one. It was all about allowing the various churches across Europe to have a share.
If you collected all the pieces of the True Cross in one place, you’d have enough lumber to start a business.
The shroud of Turin would be a very plausible item as the image of Jesus could be on a linen placed over him following crucifixion from dirt and blood. However for the item to still exist knowingly is highly improbable
Human corpses are not capable of imprinting their images on cloth. But this one did and no one can explain how that happened. the images have been carefully examined by scientists using tons of equipment. They are not "blood and dirt."
@@jeffreyerwin3665 what are they?
@@jeffreyerwin3665 so it's not possible that a body covered in blood and mud can't leave said blood n mud on a cover placed on said body?
Probably made a copy because the old one rotted away.
Eastern Orthodox rules!
That is ambiguous.