Could This Ancient Relic Be A Fragment Of Jesus' Cross? | Myth Hunters | Odyssey
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- Опубликовано: 29 фев 2024
- Of all the world's ancient relics, perhaps a fragment of the true cross is one of the most valuable. Join archaeologists and theologians as they dissect the evidence as to whether or not this ancient shard of wood was once part of the cross on which Jesus was crucified.
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The amazing rush to the Holy Land for relics began centuries after Christ's death. Some of them were supposedly gathered during the Crusades, and I would imagine locals would be prone to creating such things to sell. As for Christ's cross, it's very doubtful it would have been saved but rather re-used. Crucifixion, for all its horrors, was a routine Roman execution for its day.
And you are absolutely correct. The relic business, much like the more modern antiquities business, was very profitable. I doubt people needed much convincing then, and while some may be more skeptical now, the excitement of potentially owning something that old, especially if it has historical significance, can still cloud the mind.
Don't believe everything you get off the internet.
- Pontius Pilate-
Lol
Ahahahaaaa
I've been scammed so many times with various purchases...
It's getting worse even Amazon isn't what it used to be.
But be sure to wash your hands 🙌 😂
...especially if it comes out of secular science...
The Romans probably reuse the crosses. Hence the all trace of the true cross would have been lost in administrate indifference.
They definitely re used crosses,Wood was very scarce in Judea back then.
Plenty of cedar trees in the area. Before the Ottoman Tree Tax
@@Mirokuofnite Not in ancient days.2000 years ago there were very few trees in what was judea.Theyve planted millions of trees lately but in Jesus time.The Romans had to import seige equiptment and crosses were re used.
The ancient cedar forest of Lebanon goes as far back to the story of Gilgamesh. The Cedar Tree is on the Lebanese Flag. Sadly what most ppl don't know is that the British cut down nearly all the forest in WW1 for railway sleepers.
@@scottyfox6376 Tragic
I would think that the Romans reused the crosses rather than make a new one for every crucification.
I agree. Wood was hard to get hold of in this locality at the time and it was not as if a crucifixion was an extraordinary event. They happened regularly. Very regularly.
They did
I also think they also reused the nails after straightening them. Crucifiction happened all the times, several times per year in Israel, maybe per month.
@@rolandrabier5984 Romans said to crucify a lot of people, but there is only 2 known cases of nails stuck to skeletons. So they have to had used serious recycling and not just toss stuff around. Funnily it's claimed this Helena, mother of Constantine is said to wander to Jerusalem around 326-28AD and just find 3 crosses lying at the Calvary. Seems plausible in city like Jerusalem that Romans just left 3 crosses to Calvary where they were 300 years just waiting Helena to arrive.
@@TJS3 Yeah, I thought that was rather silly also.
Turns out that, when the mother of the Emperor comes looking for reusable wooden crosses from 3 centuries ago, and starts torturing locals, all three are found neatly isolated, well preserved and conveniently labeled wherever you want them to be. And if they get lost 8 centuries later, they get you new ones.
HOW CAN ST HELENA BE A SAINT IF SHE AUTHORIZED TORTURE TO SATISFY HER CURIOSITY. ALSO WHY DID SHE HAVE TO CUT UP THE CROSSES WITHOUT AT LEAST RECORDING THE COMPLETE CROSSES-AN ACT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL VANDALISM?
@@user-zy7uc2tw1e why all caps?
@@christianhoffman7407 Why*
I don't think she would have returned empty handed to her son the emperor, unfortunately
Summed up nicely 😎👍🏻
I can’t remember where I saw it, but a long time ago I saw a documentary on religious “relics” that claim to be pieces of saints (bone, hair, fingernails, teeth, blood, etc.) and/or their belongings (clothing, shoes, canes, their home, etc.) and they tested several different ones. They were almost always fake, or material that wasn’t what it claimed to be.
I believe it was a history channel documentary I seen the same one
Check out "Holy Prepuce". That's the Catholic church claiming to have the foreskin of Jesus from his circumcision. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
A carbon date could help identify a fake. Which I think is why so many aren't tested. It is more fun to allow the hope to exist than to try and prove anything.
@tray22 , Even if it's fake, there are people who will refuse to accept the evidence. First thing religion has to do with it's followers is kill their critical thinking skills.
❤💯💯💯💯💯💯💯👍😅💯👍👍
So Helena tortures a guy to find out where the cross was buried and then she's made a saint by the church..smh
No because He was crucified on an execution stake Cross never executed. Roman's didn't have room of 36' between stakes IGNORANCE
You mean the way the rest of the so called saints murdered their way across the known world forcing Christianity on all.
There is apparently enough "original" wood from the cross to build a three bedroom house
So NO.
And enough nails from the cross as well.
the true cross house.
so they say,same about nails or bones or what have you not.
But who says the one or other piece of - evidence - might not be the real thing?
@@benediktmorak4409300 years after the fact? Wood needs to be taken care of unless you want it to rot. Even in dry conditions it’s not that stable without care.
@user-go,
That is not really true. I don't believe in all these relics as being authentic. But the mayority of parts of the 'True Cross ' are insignifant pieces of wood. Tiny splinters.
Put all together they're not enough to create one arm of the cross. ( So on that subject Calvin was wrong. )
Off course, the whole story of the 'finding of the cross ' is complete nonsense !
This BS about the Titulus goes the same way.
It's a waist of money to use science to proof or un-proof the authenticity of any of these objects.
But let's see it this way :
Imagine you are an orphan from birth.
Then, someday you find a photo of , what you think is your mother. ( You never met her and you don't know what she really looked like !)
Would you appreciate some inconsiderate person to tell you: " NAAH, THAH AINT YOU MOM !! THAS THE LADY WHO DANSED IN THE BAR NEKS THE BUS STATION !"
But t his photo was the only link to your mother.....
Sometimes the truth is just not the best answer. 😢
Hesseman should be commended for his hard work in digging out records. Why would he lie about the documents he found? If the historical accounts of Helena's work in the search are true, then it's a clear depiction of the Dark Heart of the Roman Catholic Church. To torture someone who knew the location of the cross is horrifying to a true believer. Do I believe this is really part of the crucifix of Jesus the Christ? Possibly. Do I think it matters? Nothing of this physical 3D plane holds power nor is significant to God's Kingdom. This is interesting but the controversy is a distraction.
Helena starts search for relics about 330 years after Jesus was killed..
Random guy: I know where the cross is!
Helena : Where?
Random guy: Three of them right here! One even has a sign on it with Jesus name on it in 3 languages!
Helena: Seems legit...
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
They saw her coming.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
“Carbon 14 dating only works when I want it to.”
I've got this one folks.......No it couldn't, cool story though
😂😂😂
What is your evidence, please?
@@StevesSlideandJazz what’s YOURS! 😂😂😂
@@marcuscrumpton8568you know you lost the argument when you have to answer a question with a question.
Thx for taking this one. I needed a rest.
Im no expert but the Hebrew looks surprisingly modern for the time period? I half expected to see some paleo variations especially with Resh.
The question that everybody forgot to ask is: Why did the crosses and the tablet were in a cistern for 300 and some years until they were found?
And they did not rot!
Easy: persecution.
Am I incorrect in thinking that lumber was not easy to cut back in the days before sawmills? And I feel that crucifixion crosses were reused over and over until after repeated spikes inserted into it causes it to split prematurely. I certainly don't think each cross was used only once. They didn't have any respect to the person being hung, so can't see them having a mindset where a cross would be dedicated to the person being murdered on it, and buried with them as a casket would be. Not a chance. Crosses would be reused until they wouldn't hold the person or spikes anymore.
One question. Why on this supposed fragment are the Greek letters mirrored? Greeks always wrote left to right.
If I could gather all the pieces of the true cross, I could keep my stove burning for decades.
Absolutely no need was there.
Three minutes in and I'll wager that this "ancient" relic hasn't been in a dendrochronologist's lab, or been radiologically dated.
Jeremiah 5:21 springs to mind.
I'm into this 20 minutes and still waiting for any mention of those evidentiary tree rings. They don't lie.
Jeremiah 5:21 says "Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see and who have ears but do not hear…"
I’m having a difficult time relating that verse with this situation, but I’ll keep watching and see where it fits. I personally don’t think anything is wrong with people believing this piece of wood is off Jesus' cross, or any of the others. So long as no one is WORSHIPPING the piece of wood, what’s the harm??
I was waiting for someone to point this out. Tree rings can't be faked. Although I suppose you could find a piece of wood that old and claim it was the cross, but who would have bothered in the 1400s when they needed a boost in pilgrimage to help pay for the renovations.😉😄
This video has the Dome of the Rock in it which was built several hundred years later than Helena’s travels.
Yeah, I guess they couldn't find any 600 year old stock footage of the original site. 😏
You always get the truth when you torture someone to obtain it. "Hey - where is this thing that I'm looking for, from an event that "happened" 300 years ago?" "I dunno." Takes away food for a week and keeps them in a well...."Well, here it is." And then: Let me check with the guy who's existence depends on this relic being real. Yup. He says it checks out.
EVIDENCE OBTAINED THROUGH TORTURE IS GENERALLY COSIDWEWD UNRELIABLE AS THE PERSON BEING TORTURED WOULD SAY ANYTHING TO STOP THE TORTURE.
Some things never change
So your looking for pieces of wood 400 years after the fact, you are asking to be conned.
There is a cottage industry at the base of mt Ararat of creating and selling authentic pieces of Noah’s ark.
If I or you ask for it yeah, but the emperor's mum who is going to con her 🤔
It could be true 😐
@@barbararice6650 how is she going to know. It is centauries before scientific testing. I have seen so many fake relics. Christians should be shamed by this, not celebrating it.
@@barbararice6650 It could be true that Santa lives at the north pole and make toys there too. It could be true.
@barbararice6650 , Special pleading for Helen I see. She's was just a gullible and naive as the rest of the Christians and theists.
I think if you really wanted relics of Jesus, you would need look no further than the Vatican archives. They’re the keepers of most important things, relics, documents, books, etc.
unfortunately yes
When one starts out saying I believe this is a part of the true cross all credibility is lost.
I watched a video where the water level of the Sea of Galilee exposed a boat from the 1st century CE. Right off the bat, Christians in the comment section said it was the boat Jesus was in when he walked on water.😂😂😂😂😂😂
Prove your evidence it isnt. 🥴🤡
@@tommy70888, Here we go again with Christians shifting the burden of proof.
@tommy70888 , A Christian shifting the burden of proof. Why am I not shocked?
@@samuelschick8813 not a christian nor am i religious. But u can keep assuming🥴🤡 why am i not shocked.
I believe my church has the relic of the Holy Toothpick from the last supper.
My church has an original wine list from the last supper. However it was known then as the first supper, printers did not have hindsight to know there would not be another.
@@peterhickey1633 According to most paintings these guys were reserving lot of space as they all sat on the same side of the table. "We want table for 26 people!" "okay...but there is only 13 guys in your posse?" "Yeah, we all like to sit on the same side of the table...."
Nah they just moved around for the photo.
😂😂😂
No that is buried at oak island
Why would Helena chop up the most amazing relic in all Christendom? And how could wood stay intact buried in dirt for a millennium or more?
Helena was nothing else than a naive person. Living in the noble bubble travelling the middle east being robbed everywhere she goes by strangers saying they posses something saint ... All this history is very controversial.
“No forger would ever make spelling mistakes in a forgery!” 🙄🙄
In bible have wrong info first greek to latin and athers soooo
@@Asdfhjkl998 did you actually read my comment? I was quoting what he stated, because that whole argument is nuts! Forgers make mistakes all the time! Why should it be any different when it involves holy relics!
we can tell forgeries by the spelling mistakes Chinese porcelain has different writing to modern day . forgers dont always grasp that
@@ADEN1961 please see my comment above, that was the point I was making! I was repeating what he states in the video and rolling my eyes at the stupidity of the comment he was making!
@@lindathomas5500 yes I did get your meaning it just reminded me of experiences I had with fake stuff lol
Hahaha they were believing every single clue regarding the authenticity of the cross title but when scientific analyses are done they’re like, naw heck no that doesn’t fit my agenda. lol
In medieval times there were so many bits of "wood of the true cross" that you could have built a house from them. Most of those bits were said to be taken from the actual cross which was discovered by the mother of Emperor Constantine in 326 AD.
1:19 So the picture that’s being presented for ur mind to see . The curiousity ur mind projects and emotionally seeks within.. so my translation to this is this: even if it wasn’t the fact that the thought of the code of truth is being even projected and drives u in curiosity = the presence of the Holy Spirit is in your presence. … amen❤❤❤
The part that requires the most scrutiny in my opinion is the acquisition of the crosses originally. Many people were crucified and I’d think the last thing someone would save is a tool of execution. Do people save ropes from hangings or axes from veheadibgs? You’d think they wouldn’t and how would they have taken it?
Actually people DID save the rope from hangings, it was thought to bring luck...
Also, locks of hair and such.... handkerchiefs dipped in blood from beheadings...
Most of them found out to be BS though. But they did keep Cromwell's head.
From what I remember reading about the sample taken for carbon dating from the shroud was from the area of the shroad that was repaired back in that date after the damage. If that is the case why have they not returned to test the rest of it ? I dont think they want to know what the true results would be. It would raise alot of questions.
As an artist for 39 years and graduated of the Art Institute of Houston, I totally agree with hand writing analysis. You can't fake change. And time changes. So does writing habits and styles.
The type of wood from that region that was readily available and the wet climate it was buried in makes perfect sense. What's embedded in that cross and wood would show the soil of that area which is distinct compared to other regions too.
Trees have rings and history.
The U.S., Russia, China, Venezuela have uranium in soil. Thats how you can tell what bomb was set off by the region and the signature of the radiation. Radiation cardon dating is fact. You can't change time and writing styles and tell me that's fake. 💯
A piece of old wood with an inscription scratched into it is not sufficient proof !😂
@starspike509 if you sign your checks and don't want your personal identity stolen it is lol🤣
@@troyheffernan1261, Gotta love your mental gymnastics regarding the wood being real. As an artist you should know there are ways to forge things so they appear older than what they actually are. You should also know writing styles can be copied regardless of the Era they are from.
If they’d really found this stuff
Do you really think they’d hack it up
After digging it up and finding it all in one piece!
old saying, "if you took all the pieces of the true cross, you'd have enough material to create the Ark"
Act of Random Kindness, ( ARK )
debunked and deeply unimpressive to cite to trying to discredit.
Helena searches for Joseph of Arimathea's tomb 300 years later.
Random person: It's here under the Temple of Venus (Templum Veneris/Ναός της Αφροδίτης) in Aelia Capitolina.
Helena: OK....
So Helena sponsored the first archeological dig.
How bloody long do you think a wee bit of wood lasts
outside the natural history museum there's a tree trunk fossil that is 100 million years old
@@diorocks5858 fossil…not STILL wood
Neolithic bows have been found in Europe. Star Carr site for example.
@@mrjohn.whereyoufrom ahhhhhh fair one…thank you!
@@marcuscrumpton8568 Yes Sir its fossilized as we well know, but for some its still wood unfortunately.
Amazing work 👍✝️
Who needs a material relic when you’ve got a spiritual connection anyway?
if all the bits of the 'true cross'''' were joined together you could build chatres cathedral, or a cross nobody could carry = power pylon size
I remember in '64 our parish priest ,after a Holy Land visit, showing our class a sliver of 'The Cross' laying on purple cloth of a tiny wooden box ...
Guess mr. Hesseman didn't account for the possibility that this sort of thing could have been faked somewere between the execution of Jesus the jew and Helena's arrival in Jerusalem for one. Or the fact that the church might have created a replica of the titula brought back by Helena at some point in the medieval period. Replicas of historical objects are hardly a new concept after all. And replicas tend to be mistaken for the real deal by most who are not experts in what ever historical object it is that has been replicated. Replicas are also often the basis for making deliberate fakes by people who stand to gain from forgery. Helena might have geuinely though she had found the real deal not realizing she might have been the victim of a forgery. The man she had tortured for information might have either mistaken an ancient replica or deliberate fake for the real deal aswell thinking he actually knew the location of the real cross, not realizing it was not authentic. Or, maybe more likely, he was a bit pissed for beeing tortured so he gave Helena the location of were he new someone had buried some fakes (maybe in an attempt at getting rid of the evidence of their own forgery) just to either make the torture stop and/or as a bit of payback for beeing tortured. After all it is a well known fact that information gained by torture usually tend not to be very reliable or trustworthy. People tend to end up telling their torturers what ever they think they want to hear just to make the torture stop. Another thing mr. Hesseman seems to have been ignorant of is the fact that writing something on paper or parchment with penn and ink is rather different than carving letters, words and sentences into wood, bone, stone or metal. I've carved alot of letters and runes into wood over the years so I do have some personal experience on the subject. Doing so without the aid of modern equipment for the job, only using a handheld knife is alot more difficult and usually never turn out as nice as writing with penn and paper. And what ever letters, words or sentences you carve never look the same as your regular penn and paper handwriting. The result is usually always alot cruder. Round shapes are especially difficult to get right and good looking when carving them with only a knife and no special tools for the job. Carved words and letters are also easy to replicate as you can draw them onto the material first and then simply follow the lines when carving. Then again faking handwriting on on paper with pen and ink isn't that difficult either. Point at getting at here is three lines of Hebrew, Greek and Latin text carved into a piece of wood would not be that difficult to replicate for a medieval person with a knife. And even if they were won't actually replicating an older titula, but just simply carving it freehand the result wouldn't look that different from the same words carved into a piece of wood during any other period of history. There simply wouldn't be the same amount of variation in shape, form and style of the letters carved as with various styles of handwriting and fonts made on paper with penn and ink through out the centuries. So his whole comparative paleography argument kind of falls short in alot of ways. That fact here is that mr. Hesseman simply follows his wishfull thinking. The did not set out to prove the true origins of this relic. He set out to prove his own wishfull thinking to be true. His own strong bias, he wants the relic to be the real deal, is so strong that he will automatically discount any method of science or any piece of evidence that does not support his wish for the relic to be authentic. His reasons for this wishfull thinking is most likely based on his personal religious beliefs and not an objective interest in historical artifact or "biblical" history. Like any other religious person his own blind faith prevents him from beeing objective, let alone beeing able to accept actual scientific facts that goes against his beliefs.
They could build a battleship with the amount of wood from that cross they have recovered.
As for the SHROUD OF TURIN. THE SAMPLE TAKEN WAS OF A REPAIR THAT WAS ADDED IN THE later century in France where the Church that guarded it was set a fire and burned but the SHROUD WAS SAVED AND REPAIRED with new cloth of the time period.
HELLO,,, IF YOU AND I KNOW THAT, THEN WHAT IT WRONG WITH THE
PRODUCERS OF THIS, SO CALLED INVESTIGATION ?????????
So true. Do you know if they retested it with a piece of material further into the shroud?
@@ChelseaJadeCNot yet, because this would be DESTRUCTIVE analysis and the new owners would have to approve that. That said, the SHROUD has been dated by other means (FAR INFRARED SPECTROSCOPY was done nondestructively in the CENTER of the SHROUD containing the image and it confirmed a date when JESUS CHRIST lived).
I am am expert in ionizing radiation detection and the particles that created the SHROUD IMAGE are so unique they could only be reproduced in the 1980s by high energy charged particle accelerators. The SHROUD IMAGE is miraculous without question and as an expert in ionizing radiation detection I can confirm this fact!!
@@ChelseaJadeC No one has been able to get one. It took months of arguing over what they got last time.
@@debbibowen they don't want the truth revealed
In innocent's abroad Mark Twain observed there were so many pieces of the true cross you could rebuild it.
The Man Hessmann is correct about this scenario that writing styles change and the period of the style of writing on the relics is of the First Century and the People of the NINTH CENTURY did not know of this scenario because the scientific literature was not available! If you lived in the NINTH CENTURY you only knew about that era of writing style and not of the ancient past periods. Because the study of this science was not created yet. To the people of the NINTH CENTURY it was a mystery!
Most likely not! 😄
If it's authentic, then maybe it's a part of the original cross upon which King Izas Manu of Edessa (the Nazarene Leader of the Jewish Revolt) was crucified and then taken down before his death by Josephus circa AD 69 (in our modern calendar).
I thought it said Jesus by name?
but the Bible says that Pilate had the text let written, not chiseled into wood. wood was very rare in Jerusalem, it is a desert landscape. so it is more likely that it was written on a paper/papyrus. on a chisel wood it is not easy to read the text from the distance. Also the priests requested from Pilatus that he should correct the text into: "he claimed to be the King of the Jews", which Pilate declined. of course a correction cannot made into a chiseled message. so i really think that it was written on paper. and honestly, i cannot imagine that a roman writer wrote the text wrong backwards and continue to wrote in the false way, they were experts in that.
If you have faith, no need for relics
It's inspiring...not required or needed.
Helena, an ancient version of Ron Wyatt.
Wood was a rare commodity in Judea, back than... Brought from Lebanon or farther... It is more likely the horizontal ledge of the cross was waaaaay shorter.
Ambrose was active some 50 years after the supposed date of Helena's finding of the cross, so he & Christophine were just following tales they had heard or read. Egeria was also of the same period, when the relics, right or wrong, were accepted as authentic.1492 when the Vatican was fighting against Protestantism, needing things to revivify the 'truth' of Catholic dogma.
Such a 'relic' would be a powerful symbol.The Vindolanda tablets are from c 100 AD, not ' the time of Christ'. They only had to survive c 300 years to the time of Helena, not 2000 years. The whole story is a bit fanciful,
based on Helena's wish fulfillment, & later credulity.
A famous man once said "There are enough pieces of the 'true cross' to build a Ship of the line". Also Four Churches have "the Skull of John the Baptist" (The Pope declared ALL of them true) INDEED! if he had 4 heads, perhaps all the people came to see him for reasons other to be baptized. (I'd like to see THAT too ;) )
The Catholic church also claims to have the foreskin of Jesus. And in 4,5 churches at the same time.
Some major dyslexia going on in the carver on this relic. Carbon dated to ~1000 AD so unless our calendar is way way off, no. I wanted to know the results of the plaques dug up in Britain. The Shroud had people arguing that a corner of the cloth had been rewoven by nuns to repair a fraying corner. That corner is from where the carbon dating samples were removed, they contend. If the pieces of the cross were soaking in a cistern for a long time wre being dried up then dug up in the 300s, who knows if that might have skewed the dating by 600 or more years. It seems unlikely, one would still expect a much earlier dating than 1000+/- years.
Likely the cross was a Tau cross. A mortice and tenon held a cross beam to a permanently placed upright. A removable peg or nail held the cross beam on the upright beam with the tenon. It was likely a short upright. The feet were nailed to the sides of the upright through the ankle. The knees of the crucified would likely touch the ground. They weren't designed to be comfortable. They placing of the nailed person on the tenon wasn't designed to be difficult to do, two guys would lift the nailed one onto the tennoned upright, secured with the locking peg or nail, probably jutting out to make it difficult for the crucified to keep their head and neck straight up and impede their attempt to lift themselves to breath and ease their knees.
The nails went through the base of the wrist severing the tendons not allowing the index and middle fingers to curl in. Hence the hand gesture of blessing, which in fact was a result of the injury.
The cross on which Jesus died was not used once, it was used before and after Jesus many times, even the nails were straightened and resused.
I can't yes I believe it is real or not. What I can say as a Christian is that it doesn't matter. Faith is something you believe in without needing physical proof. Interesting quests but for me what is in my heart is all that matters.
So which true cross did the Crusaders lose in the cataclysmic battle loss at Hattin in 1187 ? So many crosses & so many bones of Saints it's hard to keep track tbh.
With wood being organic....how would it not have rotted or become petrified?
Besides, I thought the sign above his head read. I'm Nailed Right In lol
Never underestimate the mental gymnastic abilities of theists when it come to their religion.
Why would the Romans bury the three crosses? They would recycle them for the next crucifixion. Iron was in short supply so any nails they could pull out the would and use them again.
Eyeroll......false prophets everywhere....jeezzzz
The tablet would only be 300 years old, not 2000 years old when Helena found it?
Where was it found?
I was thinking more along the lines of part of the sign to Noah's park!
the problem here is that we don't know what crucifixion looked like nor do we know how it was done there are 3 depictions from Roman times and that's it and they are all different making me think they made it up as they went along some crucifixions may have used crosses made of wood in some literal sources people were chained to walls one of the 3 depictions shows a rather strange configuration using thin bendy wood well if used correctly people were basically attached to the rope of a flimsy ballista a form of crossbow this would stretch the upper torso and chest and you would die from a lack of air.
so, one type of cross never existed in this mess trying to find what method was used for Jesus is something the bible doesn't specify so trying to find that out today is pretty impossible.
Romans crosses were busy maintaining order in Judea. Probably wore out, then remainants went into a cooking fire.
Since the writing analysis and the carbon dating disagree, why didn't they examine both methods to see what errors could have caused the disagreement?
Do you think we're stupid? Just because Helena claimed to have found the relics, that doesn't mean she didn't invent them or elaborate them. This whole programme is an exploration of human gullibility, starting with that of the researcher who begins with a preconceived idea of what we will find.
I am Catholic but it is fantasy to believe this is authentic. If St Helena found the real titulus, she would not have mauled it into pieces. That would be sacrilegious. It would have been kept whole, widely reported and openly displayed in the Vatican.
This titulus is, like the Turin Shroud, a replica of the original but with a big dose of the maker’s/artist’s discretion.
Even if the carbon dating hit the mark at 30 A.D., I would be skeptical.
The stone slab in the Holy Sepulchre church was indeed used in the wrapping of dead bodies. But was it used to wrap Jesus’ body? Unlikely.
Vilken lyd lagde verdens første menske på jordkloden?
If iam right there wasn't much timber around in them days. So if it didn't get used as timber building will it would have been Burt cooking someone's breakfast or as ashes used for warming up.
I don't remember any mention of St Helena finding the titulus from the Cross on the occasion when she is said to have discovered the True Cross. I'm Catholic and am not familiar with this particular relic, though I have seen and venerated small slivers of wood which are taken from what tradition says is the True Cross. The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus. There's nothing implausible at at all about a piece of wood being 2000 years old especially if it had been indoors most of that time. I mean, besides the wooden letters found near Hadrian's wall even the Dead Sea Scrolls are 2000 years old and they are papyrus or leather. It does not make sense to scoff at the possibility of wood surviving. Though that does not mean that this item was from Jesus. A genuine investigation of its age would look at whether tree ring data could be gathered from it (maybe not), what species, and carbon dating.
Yes studying things like the wood itself would give a further idea if it is possible . Is it a wood that was in Jerusalem in that period ? If it isn't or is would further indicate if the carbon 14 date might indeed be questioned or should be accepted.
Why do you venerate anything, or anyone, for that matter, aside from Christ Himself? Even on the slim possibility that any piece survived, it does not make that piece any more powerful than any other piece of wood. I will tell you what it does do. It causes people to turn it and all the other relics into an idol. Hopefully, you know how God feels about idols. He is not pleased when people worship idols instead of Him, and that is exactly what people do with relics. They do the same with these "saints", who were regular people like you and I. Sainthood has been twisted into something that resembles nothing that is found in the Bible. The catholic method of becoming one does not exist in the Bible. Part of this method involves one having been dead for a certain number of years. This is a direct contradiction of what is found in Scripture. For example, in many of his letters, Paul wrote, "To the saints at (insert town)." He refers to living people, not dead. To put it plainly, a saint is merely another name for a Christian. It means nothing more special than that. Paul even had to tell some people of his day not to worship him, that he was not a god but a man, like them. Yet today, people worship him, or perhaps rather his statues, and pray to him rather than to God directly, doing the very thing he said not to.
I truly hope you study your Bible to see whether the things catholicism teaches are true. I agree that it would be amazing to see or even touch something from biblical times that was connected to Jesus or any other figure. Yet I also know the danger, which is why I hope such things are never found. King Hezekiah had this exact problem with the Bronze Serpent that Moses made. People were worshipping it as an idol, and so he had it destroyed to prevent further sin.
@@saraross8396 Seriously? You don't understand the difference between the term "venerate" and "worship"? It's commonplace in English that any dignified human being might be called "venerable" because it means worthy of respect. I WORSHIP God alone. To quote myself above, "The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus." You come across as having been trained that Catholics "worship" something other than GOD which is a lie someone told you.
@@saraross8396 Seriously, being ignorant about other people's beliefs or misunderstanding others' words and jumping all over them based on gross misunderstanding does not help yourself or others. I don't know why it continually astonishes me but it's clear that some protestant churches have a whole "doctrine" of lies about Catholicism and they believe fake information designed to prejudice them against Catholic Christians and the Catholic Faith and sow confusion. It's grossly dishonest. If you want to know what Catholics believe then go to actual Catholic sources like the Catechism of the Catholic Church where you can actually get a straight answer.
Great ideas within this answer
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Vill verdens første menske på jordkloden vere verdens siste menske som dør på jordkloden?
AND THEN, THIS LED TO THAT, AND THAT LED TO THAT, AND THAT LED TO THAT, AND
THAT, LED TO ??????????? >>> WHEWWWWW ! ! ! ! ,,,,,,,,GET IT ????????
Why didn't Helena travel by sea?
Constantine felt he found the the true cross or the Roman torture stake but did he really? He also searched for the arc of the covenant and other relics and others after him searched also but when it comes to religios relics you have to watch for fabrications that were created in the middle ages
Books relics ect
Very Good Video … Cross Relics.
No Roman administrator would have had the label written in Hebrew. He would have it written in a language most people would understand: Aramaic.
Correct. Or possibly Latin? But would the populace even be literate enough even to read it?
It was supposed to have been made by Pilot sarcastically.When the Jews complained that he carved king of the Jews the Pharisees complained and pilot told them basically to F off.
Of course they would- The rabbis, scribes and Pharisees studied Hebrew for divine worship in the Temple and the synagogues- the whole point of the inscription was to mock Christ, a rabbi. Most of the Eastern Mediterranean knew Greek, traded in Greek and travelled using Greek so this inscription makes perfect sense
@@josi4251 The greatest literacy would have been in Greek. Latin for the army clerks. Hebrew - a waste of time.
@@MsMike651true, but not sarcastically, I think it was a jab at the pharasiees since he didn't want to do it
what is bc Ad
They should try dendrochronology because it's a wooden artifact.
Not likely but video and production is good.
VERY difficult to prove. Thousands were crucified in that region starting under the reign of Alexander the Great 100s of years before Christ.
Helena: " These are pieces of the true cross. How do you know they are? Because I said they are."
"Yes, but how do you know?"
"...execute this one!"
😅
Too many ads.
Nor så første menskest på jordkloden ett annet menneske ?
Do the fairy godmother's wand next, and I'd like to see Sauron on the list. Not to mention Goofy's shoes.
Ever see the cool documentey on the search for who your real dad is? Here's a hint, it can't be every guy in the bar your mom stays at every weekend.
why was the wording written backwards??
By the time of Constantine I doubt it would exist. Was probably gone within 5 years of crucifixion in a bonfire.
And if it is? Exactly what difference is it going to make to anything, apart from maybe someone charging money to look at it, or hold it? It's wood.
Confirmation Bias is strong with that on.
Vilket årstall så verdens første menske jordkloden?
The latest research says that when the Romans crucified people, they didnt use the Latin cross, it was more like a pole and prisoners were suspended. And to tell you the truth we still dont know if Christ was a real person or not, he could have been completely made up.
THE ROMANS GENERALLY USED T CROSSES, WITH THE VERTICAL PIECE CALLED THE STIPES AND THE HORIZAL PART THE PATIBULUM. AND THE WHOLE CROSS ABOUT 7 TO 8 FT HIGH.
Eastern Orthodox rules!
That is ambiguous.
why not use wood rings to tell when cross was made
Interesting...
17:20 , whats growing on dudes chin???
A really ugly beard?
Bad shave job ,real bad 😂
Carbon dating are less accurate, the wood can be contiminated easily.
Citation needed
@@offbrandsoup2579there won’t be a citation because there is no such thing.
Pilatus wrote he didn't engrave on wood