On Trials weekends, Saint-14 needs to be located front and center similar to Iron Banner. Every player that visits the Tower can see and keep it front of mind. Having it tucked back in the abyss of the hanger makes no sense.
Always thought it was funny when Saint first arrived back in the game, I was like "oh he's just back fresh and ready to go. This is just his temporary hang out spot in the hanger as goofy as it looks" And years later...... my guy is still stuck living out of his ship.
I just wish the comp weapons could roll multiple perks. I want a kill clip roll and I want a desperado roll, but i don't want to have to have multiple copies taking up inventory/ vault space.
@@wezzy9437the only reason I feel they did it for comp as stasis is because we have belisarius-d. I know that shouldn’t really matter, but from an aesthetic/redundancy standpoint it does make sense. That being said, it wouldn’t hurt to have some strand primaries available from other sources (I think there’s only one other strand pulse and it’s from a season that’s no longer available)
I was thinking as soon as I read the article that there needs to be a giant neon sign inside the game that Trials has changed to get old/returning players into it. Despite all the changes, anyone who's played Trials and didn't like it is never going to notice Trials changed since they weren't paying attention to it anyway. Just give a quest out to all players where they talk to Saint, who has some dialogue explicitly saying he's made changes to Trials to be more forgiving, then have players win seven games to get a curated roll of some Trials gun or something. This would show people that Trials has changed and emphasize that even low and mid skill players can still get loot as long as they manage to get seven wins.
Cam, I'm a low skill player and I keep coming back to your videos because I enjoy your content but also, I want to get better at the game so I really hope you keep putting stuff up for us noobs(positive) out there!
Thats understandable but I think his point was that you are the outlier. Your average blueberry probably isn't looking for a video that explains how to get better at crucible and there's so many slop videos out that just explain how to abuse cheese in a given season and bungie just keeps adding more so well thought out videos like Cammy's get drowned out if you aren't already a sub and look for his videos in particular. Plus SBMM in destiny has never exactly rewarded skill so your average player isn't rewarded for getting better, they're rewarded for winning by any means necessary and the community is notorious for choosing the path of NO RESISTANCE and just using whatever takes the least amount of effort or critical thinking to win.
At 7:26 and on you hit the nail on the head. The actual issue of new player interest in trials isn’t solved by these changes. New player onboarding as a whole has remained an unaddressed topic for far too long. Too much responsibility lies on content creators and the community to guide new players through this game
Yeah, if the game is to survive Frontiers has to act as a soft reboot with good new player on boarding. To many veterans have left and are not coming back for the game to survive without getting new players in and that isn't happening with the current new player experience.
The thing is Bungie has to know but they are choosing not to do anything about it, for a reason. It honestly seems like they just know and are letting the game die, but at a speed that milks the veteran players until they have a new source of income or bust. They're probably doing this keeping in mind that if Marathon flops the company will be liquidated. If they had faith in Marathon they would probably be more willing to continue investing into destiny believing the company isn't coming to an end.
@@Welverin The sad thing is the need for a more effective stream of new player attraction has been obvious for many years now and Bungie has just thrown a few peanuts in that direction but for the most part ignored the issue. The biggest change they made was only necessitated because of sunsetting the previous intro to the game and they produced maybe the driest, most bland piece of content they have ever made as the introduction for potential new players. It's as if they said, "Here's this drab, unengaging story to play that is missing everything that is cool about the game and filled with annoying pop-up ads. Please play our game, yawn." It's baffling how they somehow expected this to not be a problem at some point. Short sighted corporate governance strikes again.
@@brienhays5508 That and the utter neglect the core playlists have gotten are the reason the game is in the dire straights it's in now. My bet is the blame is on management, because those things are directly monetized and it's not obvious how they lead to profit they didn't allow resources to be put into them.
I haven't touched a round of Trials since the early Lightfall year. This is gonna get me in the playlists for sure. Bungie addressed damn near every pain point. Now if only they could get matchmaking and special ammo fixed.
@@jedispartancoolman They weren't exactly omega exclusive and worthwhile anyway. I only have one adept I use because the roll just happened to be perfect. They're almost the same as the base gun, most are still better off just farming for that anyway
@Zevox144 exactly. I rocked an adept trials weapon to show off I did something neat and that I'm dedicated to PVP. I like that they are the same as regular rolls because I don't feel bad that people don't have them, it was a flex
The sandbox with the darkness subclasses has drowned the pvp side of things, alongside reskins and no desirable rewards for being better than most (examples: master raid, flawless trials, seals). Until those are out of the way pvp in destiny will remain beyond broken
0:31 NOT THE DEVS. I'd blame the management. Devs follow directors and managers. They're as disappointed as the players and some have left of their own accord.
🙄 Bungie takes devs feedback and promotes unqualified devs to lead projects. Go back and look at some of the live streams and see that some of the people that lead past seasons were first time leads. The culture at Bungie is rotten. The fact that Allison was promoted to narrative lead after the awful stories she wrote in the past few seasons is a great example of how backwards bungie is and why the game direction is out of touch
Most of the top pvp players are always complaining about matching other top players, they dont want the challenge they want a easy path like everyone else
I'm glad someone like Cammy, who lives and breaths pvp, is actually agreeing with the changes. I guess it says much about those who are disagreeing with as we now know what kind of people they truly are. No offense to anyone but it truly is sad when crucible content creators actually like the change and those "pvp try hards" don't. Me personally and I hope this isn't disheartening in a way but I lost all reason to care for crucible or trials in general, I might try this new card out as a solo player but I've lost all motivation. It happened a while back even before the lay offs, after playing the game for so long and after finishing final shape there's just no reason to care anymore and I'm sorry. Again I hope this isn't too disheartening. That being said the changes are great but as always with bungie they are very late to the draw and won't be able to make up for it, probably will bring a few people back but after everything they've done I'm afraid nothing will change that. I mean some in the community came up with this plan like 4 years ago and bungie shrugged it off but now look we're at. Lastly I want to say the whole "content creators control everything" theory or argument is just plain right ridiculous. While I will admit some of the changes made throughout the past may have had some small things to do with content creators I'm sure it's only just that, a small bit. You do realize lots of people play this game or well have played this game not just CCs, so a majority of those people could have asked for such a a thing and again as game devs you have to try your best to cater to different people even if it means losing the trust of others and well as game devs or companies in general you will cater to those who bring the most money in and let me tell you yeah the CCs may spend a bit of money and well bring popularity to the game but there are a bunch of others that spend much more. So keep that in mind. Apologies for this comment being long and apologies if the last part seems like nonsense but hey just felt the need to share an opinion. That being said keep up the great work keeping PvP content afloat, in all honesty I still watch your old live commentaries as it's cool seeing are far the game as changed as well as your strategies and such.
The fact that the new comp weapon has pve rolls that are actually very good is enough to get me to participate in the playlist even if it’s only a couple matches a week
@@Nailfut the PvE meta wasn't Heavy GLs by that point. Everyone was still using Apex Predator with Reconstruction + BnS because it was just better outright. GLs are mostly performing well this season due to Envious Arsenal and the artifact mods, they'll likely see less usage next episode. Not a lot less, but certainly less.
the previous version of trials was rewarding for 3 stacks only, once they added the extra drops/rep to 3 stacks the casual solo queue playerbase vanished and the mode was miserable to play, glad a lot of the reward increases aren't 3 stack only this time
I was waiting for this video Cammy. You are the goat of PvP content, you're the Datto to my Trials. Love your thought-pieces and I love these upcoming updates. I couldn't be more excited!
Nah, you and other content creators didn't ruin Destiny. Bungie ground Destiny down, partially by dogmatically listening to a more and more negative veteran community (which includes a bunch of content creators) instead of focusing on making a good game. It's Bungie's game so it has to be mostly their fault. Still, the level of negativity in the Destiny community over the last 3 or 4 years is fucking nuts. Bungie totally neglected the new player experience but the community didn't fucking help that's for sure.
nail on the head the toxicity is defo from neglect but at the same time holy shit its boring to see how game bad pt 63849 from youtuberdootinyguy23. I know the algo loves that slop but shit i wish it would change
What veteran takes did they dogmatically listen to that made the game worse? Most of their responses to feedback has been good. Crafting, more investment in endgame stuff, fireteam finder etc. The negativity is just madness at this point. We went from possibly the best expansion ever which got extremely high ratings all around to constant rage as if Bungie did nothing but put pins in everyone's food after like one mid season. Rage baiting "journalists" and content creators are part of the blame, but the community is at fault for spreading it too. Word of mouth is extremely important. That's how Helldivers became a phenomenon despite its lack of hype before release. And all this community has spread is "bungie bad am I right guys haha upvote on the left" for years on end. No wonder we don't get any new players when the community acts like that. (That's aimed at the general online community not Cammy or Cammy's community in particular these have always been much more positive and contrustive than others)
Plenty of content creators and streamers help to ruin destiny. I never would have said Cammycakes had a hand in it though. Glad to hear the acknowledgment that the "how to ruin a game tri-fecta" includes content creators. Too many people deny it so irrationally
On balance, content creators a huge net benefit to the player base. Seeing builds that look fun, watching people having fun playing content together, and seeing people react to the content that had dropped with TFS is what got me back into Destiny last year, and I think it draws and sustains a lot of casual and hardcore players.
Ive been implementing a lot of your advice over the last couple of months, and I've gotten better with my game sense and engagements as a whole. Now that bungie has made it so average players can get to the lighthouse, I'm gonna play trials more often. Thanks Cam
Its crazy the people in the comment section blaming the customers for the product sold to them being terrible and complaining about it. People have been complaining about the seasonal model since season of the haunted and bungie has continued to only offer seasonal content. The core game modes are neglected and stale so theres nothing new all year. We paid for a year of content and we are given a crap sandwich and then told to take a break and go pay for another game. They sold the episodes to us as a change from the seasonal model all negative feedback is justified.
Would be nice if they put saint front and center in the tower each weekend as well. New players have np reason to go to the hangar, just make them aware it exists.
You da man!! You always break PvP down in a way that makes it easier for me to understand the why to what you’re doing. Even your trials for lower skill players recently. Are ALL the things I did to move form lower to now average skill. People Just looking for someone to blame. And cc the easiest to do that with. Jealousy. 💙
Dude content creators have been trying to kill Destiny 2 during year 1. Instead of giving feedback and supporting the game, streamers like Krafty, Gothalion ( and many others) just shit talked this game and left. Anyone who they influenced have never gave Destiny a chance to this day. Guys like you and Cross are not the reason the game is dying, you're part of the reason the game is still going.
@@JordanSlash not a single content creator liked Destiny 2 during year 1 or even asked for it. Also, Destiny had multiple chances and always messed it up for no reason. People were coming back for lightfall after the success of season of seraph and witch queen and look how that turned out.
Hey Cam, if it wasn’t for this channel and your unique flavour of the game I wouldn’t have nearly the same interest in Destiny. From TV, Cross, Jake, CG, Byf and the rest (being an original basically) Bungie and the community owe you guys a huge debt of thanks for enriching the Destiny experience.
I hope to one day get to a trial adept farming that gives equivalent loot to say farming a harder gm but that will probably not happen this is a good step tho
That low skill player video has actually helped me tremendously, last week I was ending games with positive k/ds and felt like I was actually contributing to the match vs the week before. I feel like I can confidently play any and all game modes because of how helpful that video was.
Love you're opinion about it and about the bot thing considering bungie can't even pay thier own employees with all these layoffs ain't no way they could spend the money to make the bot thing even in private matches
Dude the only Creators worth following are ones like you. Some of us stick with the game and find other ways to enjoy it and I can easily credit you for spending more time in PVP and trials. Don’t take on any of the drama and keep doin what you do for the rest of us still left in the game
The main thing I wish they kept was being able to track my flawless count. Once I had got the rolls I wanted I was able to grind trials to get that number up. It’s a pretty worthless number but it made it feel like i still had something to go for. It will be interesting to see how the changes actually impact the game. I am really looking forward to the loot though. Bungie managed to put 3 amazing trials weapons with excellent rolls out plus some of the nicest armour the game has seen for a while.
cam is one of the only creators I'd love to match with on crucible and try to best (I can't he's too good) and maybe talk a bit after the match hurts to be Brazilian 😭😭😭
The actual most annoying part was as an average trials solo player loading into a match made game, losing, and because I’m using a mercy card my win streak never actually happens because my random team mates leave the game before it technically ends
Not sure if that's already part of changes to Trials but removing the power level advantage would probably be an extra incentive for more players to participate.
1st, I sub and watch your videos to improve my gameplay and builds. You're the best and most helpful. 2nd, the Trials changes upcoming is a W for all. There will probably be some bugs as usual or exploits, but for the most part I think these were changes that most of us wanted. 3rd, hate to expose myself but I sucked at PvP in D1 and early D2, but your videos helped me a lot to understand "How to Play PvP". So now, I'm holding close to a 2.0 k/d in QP modes and comp, but for some reason I still can't break 1.0 k/d in Trials. I have my clutch moments and have gone flawless many times. So I watched and continue to watch your videos to figure out my gameplay issues. In short, please continue to make great videos. Ignore the "haters" of the community. I appreciate what you do for us.
I will definitely give it to you, Cammy, you've been consistent and generally positive while being constructively critical. Its a breath of fresh air. I hard dipped out on guys like Cross and Jake though; way too sick of the complaining. Since tuning out alot of the the noise and just enjoying the game on my own terms, its done wonders, i gotta say.
These changes might not bring in casuals, but it'll for sure bring back the 10s of thousands of lapsed PVP players, and encourage more dedicated PVE players to give it a chance, if only for the first weekend at least. That’s still a win for Bungie, and we all know Bungie needs one rn. I haven't even touched Trials since midway through Lightfall, so they already got me in. Making an IB version of Trials is certainly a choice tho, not sure if that was necessary considering they got rid of the flawless or bust system, but whatever. Seems like they could just combine them as is, but all these matchmaking systems are too confusing, I can't even tell if they're two separate pools or not.
@retiredboi3175 Where tf did I mention the sandbox? I could give two shits how balanced PVP is at this stage of the game, I've given up on that a long time ago. Once you stop taking the game seriously and treat it like some party mode on Halo or COD, it becomes infinitely more fun. Frankly, idk how anybody treated it any other way, but that's a whole other tangent I could go on. I'm just happy they're finally respecting my time in Trials (if only they could do that for the whole game, lol).
They were saying it was content creators fault? That’s what that video was about? Are you kidding me??? Y’all make my D2 experience so much better. Anyways, that’s all. Thank you for your videos ❤
Me personally im gonna have fun chasing the white glow and the emblem. Curious about the new sniper as well if it can compete with cloudstrike or icebreaker remains to be seen
I will say that something that's probably made the fanbase start turning on content creators is that, due to being longtime veterans with a ton of time to spend on Destiny, they tend to push for chages that demand the player play for longer periods of time. Multiple content creators were happy that Revenant wouldn't have craftable weapons and the power cap was being raised, despite those changes being received very negatively by the community at large.
It looks to me like people who just started Lighthouse Passage and didn't yet reach the Lighthouse will share the Open Skill pool with people on the Flawless Passage some of the time. That feels like it could be a problem when player count is low since players with
@cammycakes thank you for all these years of wisdom I've truly benefited from your videos, but at this time I'm just exhausted from all the changes trough the last 10 years, the toxic community not all but it takes time to meet Good people through lfg, nerfs buffs drip-feed content, you know the list by now. Nobody contributed more to my apathy for this game more then Bungie themselves. After 18k hours played. But thank you for all your help.
the old/current trials loot farming for low-mid skill only worked as a 3 stack 100% they meant it to help drag people back but none of my friends wanted to log back in just to get their asses kicked
It honestly falls just on devs tbh, content creators are not "partners" or affiliated and are just as much of a customers as the rest of the players are. The difference is that content creators have to make a living out of the games they play and stream. Honestly it's a bit late, they had years and nobody guarantees that once things start getting a bit better Bungie will keep Bungieing. I can't keep dining at the same restaurant if the only thing I like are appetizers. It's over.
Put a big “How Does Trials Work” button at saint that has saint (with voice lines) talk you through how trials differs from regular crucible and how each passage works. It’s ridiculous that most of the games info can’t be found in game. Even with perks I can’t stand that in a menu and stat based min-max type of game like this that when I hover over moving target it doesn’t tell me exactly 10 AA while ADS
Too less to late. I left because the basics are rotten: Infrastructure/Netcode and Cheating Security. And Bungie ramped up the abilities so now you do not even know if it was the ability spam, the cheater, the latency or a good player what fragged you. Or everything at once.
"To help with this friction, we will be setting it up so that any solo player that gets matched against a larger fireteam in either Trials or Competitive will be granted loss forgiveness for the match, on the condition that they do not quit, go AFK, or intentionally throw the game. Doing any of these actions will still result in a loss, and potentially a matchmaking restriction depending on the severity and number of occurrences." They underestimate the creativity of intentional throwing.
You severly underestimate how easy it is for the AFK algorithm to trigger in a match. And once it does no amount of effort can turn it off. I can almost guarantee loss forgiveness is going to be a rarity for a lot of awful players.
@ There is no need to afk to throw the game. Rush to death and say they tried their best, or miss every shot and say they tried their best. These are some creative ways to throw the game.
I definitely agree that it's not a single person's fault for where the game is, or rather mostly its reputation as I don't think it has ever been in any correlation to the game's actual quality to be honest. Even during its best days, generally people who play it will advise you not to play it yourself for whatever reason and if you're an outsider just looking at it and even the most dedicated players tell you not to pick it up, it WILL leave an impression. I don't really think there's a singular culprit here though, it's always been the general vibes around the game, starting with D1 launch even. I also don't think you've ever done that either, I generally agree with most of your talking points on difficulty, modes etc. and with what you said about always trying to help people improve (the disconnect between good and bad players here is usually also pretty bad, neither side is really interested in listening to the other most of the time). And yeah, of course Bungie themselves haven't really helped with this at all, be it the whole vaulting deal, upper management decisions, yadda yadda I don't need to lay this out. As you said it's a multi person job and I also don't think youtubers should be mindless advocates of their games, just constantly praising them nonstop or whatever. I do however think the negativity around the game at all times even by its own active community (even during its alleged best times) is incredibly draining.
Dude swear to god, the amount of people trying to kill the game just to get their video to 8 min mark so they can get some money is worse than pete parson flexxing his 17th car to his employee like you,cross and wallah is like the reason this game is still standing up on his toe,keep up your good work fam🙏
Thanks Cammy, as always appreciate your hard work and dedication to your craft. Your insights into the game, skill development are unparalleled. I hope many more find your videos and learn from them. I have always been a fan and appreciate you wanting to cover the game still.
Maybe if people didn't try going straight from Control 6s to Trials, they wouldn't find it so bad. Comp needs a rework to get players to use it to get better before hitting Trials. Comp is a deserted island.
So is passage of mercy/ old passages still a thing? I would like guaranteed adepts from my time like the old system. Also thank god duos and trios matched gives rollback it sucked in trials to win 5 then get two pve warlord duos 3 times in a row. Will be good to see more people run trials tho
Sorry it's not relevant to the video but I need advice. I love Crucible but I stink at it, I play on console and dont understand how I should be pacing shots, positioning etc. With the Crimils Dagger for example, should I hold the trigger full auto and control the recoil, or just tap and pause and not bother controlling the recoil?
The game is getting to the point where the only people still playing are the cultists who will blame anyone but Bungie for the slow death of the game. Ignore them.
Content creators and bungie board oversight killed D2. D2 vanilla pvp was mechanically fine then they tuned it to 3.25 speed because of twitch. Next go around bungee has to make the game they want to make, and stand on it
D2 vanilla PvP was NOT fine when the meta was just 450rpm ARs or Better Devils or team shooting. It was boring and it got old pretty quickly. Double primaries and 2 minute cooldown abilities sucked bad, it’s what made Forsaken’s crucible so great because they got rid of the vanilla PvP meta.
Content creators have a minimal negative impact on the game. Bungie as been making mistake after mistake since D1. Passionate content creators and dedicated players are the only reason the game is still around.
Coming from a player that is doomed to never leave skill island. I don’t think it’s the creators fault for constantly uploading on a game that’s been stale at best in pvp for the past couple years, taking about cheese, using cheese, and then talking about other ways to easily obtain success. What needs to be seen is that high end pvp is no longer a big game advancement loot table. I Rather it’s a cosmetic loot table that actually succeeds. I barely have 5-8 hours a week and I would rather play high end comp and go flawless for cosmetics over weapons and high stat gear. Bungie has more than proven that high stat armor distribution in a pvp is some bs. So instead why can’t we just be given good armor and weapon cosmetics. Emblems aren’t enough, emotes aren’t enough. There are plenty of D1 cosmetics/armor that are readily portable too D2 that would act as easy cosmetic rewards in either high end Comp or Trials. I don’t care about a new handcannon or pulse anymore, I don’t even care about a new dps option in master raids or gms, I just want stuff that makes me look good and is unique. As a very high skill player(sorry for the ego), I want cosmetics that younger me got nervous playing against, I.e. a full set of ornamented year 3 trials armor from D1. Thanks for reading the Ted talk.
The matchmaking is the biggest problem. They put the best players on one team and less skilled on another. It's part of the algorithm. Guys are getting 28 combat ratings where the other team gets .30 or .50 ratings. No wonder new players don't stay. It's on purpose.
My genuine question that I would ask Bungie is why should someone play this game? We talk a lot about casual and hardcore players, but I think the fall of destiny is better explained if you look at it useing the classic magic pycographic profiles. What does this game provide for a Timmy, Johnny or Spike? Spikes hate the randomness of that game, build crafting really isn't that rewarding for a Johnny, and exotics are not enticing the Timmys anymore and all of his favorite content got vaulted anyway. All of this can be fixed of course, but that will take time and money, both of which Bungie is running out of.
Just gotta say definitely not content creators faults for the game dying. One of the reasons we have what we want is because they invited people like dato, cammy, cross, ect to ask for feedback and they used that feedback to give us a lot of content we have. Obviously its a joint effort on the devs part as well no one is the sole reason for anything we have.
On Trials weekends, Saint-14 needs to be located front and center similar to Iron Banner. Every player that visits the Tower can see and keep it front of mind. Having it tucked back in the abyss of the hanger makes no sense.
It would also help if they put a load zone there so we don’t have to run there all the time.
good idea
accessibility is paramount for engagement, and a change like this would really help get players more involved
@@slingshotnerdI never understood why Hanger didn't have a landing zone
Always thought it was funny when Saint first arrived back in the game, I was like "oh he's just back fresh and ready to go. This is just his temporary hang out spot in the hanger as goofy as it looks" And years later...... my guy is still stuck living out of his ship.
Redrix rolling over in its grave right now over BXR 2: Stasis Flavor.
I just wish the comp weapons could roll multiple perks. I want a kill clip roll and I want a desperado roll, but i don't want to have to have multiple copies taking up inventory/ vault space.
I just wish they'd stop making stasis weapons Strand still needs a lot of love ffs.
@@wezzy9437nah, stasis is cool
@@GodofRandomwe just had something like that not to long ago, sad it’s gone now
@@wezzy9437the only reason I feel they did it for comp as stasis is because we have belisarius-d. I know that shouldn’t really matter, but from an aesthetic/redundancy standpoint it does make sense. That being said, it wouldn’t hurt to have some strand primaries available from other sources (I think there’s only one other strand pulse and it’s from a season that’s no longer available)
I was thinking as soon as I read the article that there needs to be a giant neon sign inside the game that Trials has changed to get old/returning players into it. Despite all the changes, anyone who's played Trials and didn't like it is never going to notice Trials changed since they weren't paying attention to it anyway. Just give a quest out to all players where they talk to Saint, who has some dialogue explicitly saying he's made changes to Trials to be more forgiving, then have players win seven games to get a curated roll of some Trials gun or something. This would show people that Trials has changed and emphasize that even low and mid skill players can still get loot as long as they manage to get seven wins.
Cam, I'm a low skill player and I keep coming back to your videos because I enjoy your content but also, I want to get better at the game so I really hope you keep putting stuff up for us noobs(positive) out there!
Thats understandable but I think his point was that you are the outlier. Your average blueberry probably isn't looking for a video that explains how to get better at crucible and there's so many slop videos out that just explain how to abuse cheese in a given season and bungie just keeps adding more so well thought out videos like Cammy's get drowned out if you aren't already a sub and look for his videos in particular. Plus SBMM in destiny has never exactly rewarded skill so your average player isn't rewarded for getting better, they're rewarded for winning by any means necessary and the community is notorious for choosing the path of NO RESISTANCE and just using whatever takes the least amount of effort or critical thinking to win.
@@ShadowNemesis575 Amen
you can do it! never give up!
At 7:26 and on you hit the nail on the head. The actual issue of new player interest in trials isn’t solved by these changes. New player onboarding as a whole has remained an unaddressed topic for far too long. Too much responsibility lies on content creators and the community to guide new players through this game
Yeah, if the game is to survive Frontiers has to act as a soft reboot with good new player on boarding.
To many veterans have left and are not coming back for the game to survive without getting new players in and that isn't happening with the current new player experience.
The thing is Bungie has to know but they are choosing not to do anything about it, for a reason. It honestly seems like they just know and are letting the game die, but at a speed that milks the veteran players until they have a new source of income or bust. They're probably doing this keeping in mind that if Marathon flops the company will be liquidated. If they had faith in Marathon they would probably be more willing to continue investing into destiny believing the company isn't coming to an end.
@@Welverin The sad thing is the need for a more effective stream of new player attraction has been obvious for many years now and Bungie has just thrown a few peanuts in that direction but for the most part ignored the issue. The biggest change they made was only necessitated because of sunsetting the previous intro to the game and they produced maybe the driest, most bland piece of content they have ever made as the introduction for potential new players.
It's as if they said, "Here's this drab, unengaging story to play that is missing everything that is cool about the game and filled with annoying pop-up ads. Please play our game, yawn." It's baffling how they somehow expected this to not be a problem at some point. Short sighted corporate governance strikes again.
@@brienhays5508 That and the utter neglect the core playlists have gotten are the reason the game is in the dire straights it's in now.
My bet is the blame is on management, because those things are directly monetized and it's not obvious how they lead to profit they didn't allow resources to be put into them.
@@Welverin You're no doubt correct.
I haven't touched a round of Trials since the early Lightfall year. This is gonna get me in the playlists for sure.
Bungie addressed damn near every pain point. Now if only they could get matchmaking and special ammo fixed.
Except rampant hacking
Idk wish they didn't give away adepts but whatever
@@jedispartancoolman They weren't exactly omega exclusive and worthwhile anyway. I only have one adept I use because the roll just happened to be perfect. They're almost the same as the base gun, most are still better off just farming for that anyway
@Zevox144 exactly. I rocked an adept trials weapon to show off I did something neat and that I'm dedicated to PVP. I like that they are the same as regular rolls because I don't feel bad that people don't have them, it was a flex
The sandbox with the darkness subclasses has drowned the pvp side of things, alongside reskins and no desirable rewards for being better than most (examples: master raid, flawless trials, seals). Until those are out of the way pvp in destiny will remain beyond broken
0:31 NOT THE DEVS. I'd blame the management. Devs follow directors and managers. They're as disappointed as the players and some have left of their own accord.
Uh huh.
🙄 Bungie takes devs feedback and promotes unqualified devs to lead projects. Go back and look at some of the live streams and see that some of the people that lead past seasons were first time leads. The culture at Bungie is rotten. The fact that Allison was promoted to narrative lead after the awful stories she wrote in the past few seasons is a great example of how backwards bungie is and why the game direction is out of touch
Most of the top pvp players are always complaining about matching other top players, they dont want the challenge they want a easy path like everyone else
I'm glad someone like Cammy, who lives and breaths pvp, is actually agreeing with the changes. I guess it says much about those who are disagreeing with as we now know what kind of people they truly are. No offense to anyone but it truly is sad when crucible content creators actually like the change and those "pvp try hards" don't.
Me personally and I hope this isn't disheartening in a way but I lost all reason to care for crucible or trials in general, I might try this new card out as a solo player but I've lost all motivation. It happened a while back even before the lay offs, after playing the game for so long and after finishing final shape there's just no reason to care anymore and I'm sorry. Again I hope this isn't too disheartening. That being said the changes are great but as always with bungie they are very late to the draw and won't be able to make up for it, probably will bring a few people back but after everything they've done I'm afraid nothing will change that. I mean some in the community came up with this plan like 4 years ago and bungie shrugged it off but now look we're at.
Lastly I want to say the whole "content creators control everything" theory or argument is just plain right ridiculous. While I will admit some of the changes made throughout the past may have had some small things to do with content creators I'm sure it's only just that, a small bit. You do realize lots of people play this game or well have played this game not just CCs, so a majority of those people could have asked for such a a thing and again as game devs you have to try your best to cater to different people even if it means losing the trust of others and well as game devs or companies in general you will cater to those who bring the most money in and let me tell you yeah the CCs may spend a bit of money and well bring popularity to the game but there are a bunch of others that spend much more. So keep that in mind.
Apologies for this comment being long and apologies if the last part seems like nonsense but hey just felt the need to share an opinion. That being said keep up the great work keeping PvP content afloat, in all honesty I still watch your old live commentaries as it's cool seeing are far the game as changed as well as your strategies and such.
The fact that the new comp weapon has pve rolls that are actually very good is enough to get me to participate in the playlist even if it’s only a couple matches a week
The changes are solid but unless there’s a PvE chase weapon in trials I don’t think the playerbase is gonna bite sadly
Even when Cataphract was the absolute best heavy GL (before we got Edge Transit etc.), how long did the PvE playerbase get into Trials?
@@Nailfut the PvE meta wasn't Heavy GLs by that point. Everyone was still using Apex Predator with Reconstruction + BnS because it was just better outright. GLs are mostly performing well this season due to Envious Arsenal and the artifact mods, they'll likely see less usage next episode. Not a lot less, but certainly less.
@@Nailfutthey just gave adept cataphracts for free🤣🤣🤣🤣, these guys at bungie are complete clowns
the previous version of trials was rewarding for 3 stacks only, once they added the extra drops/rep to 3 stacks the casual solo queue playerbase vanished and the mode was miserable to play, glad a lot of the reward increases aren't 3 stack only this time
I was waiting for this video Cammy. You are the goat of PvP content, you're the Datto to my Trials. Love your thought-pieces and I love these upcoming updates. I couldn't be more excited!
Nah, you and other content creators didn't ruin Destiny. Bungie ground Destiny down, partially by dogmatically listening to a more and more negative veteran community (which includes a bunch of content creators) instead of focusing on making a good game. It's Bungie's game so it has to be mostly their fault. Still, the level of negativity in the Destiny community over the last 3 or 4 years is fucking nuts. Bungie totally neglected the new player experience but the community didn't fucking help that's for sure.
nail on the head the toxicity is defo from neglect but at the same time holy shit its boring to see how game bad pt 63849 from youtuberdootinyguy23. I know the algo loves that slop but shit i wish it would change
No, those content creators did lmao. Just crying over and over again
No, content creators definitely contributed. So did the community.
Destiny's failure was a group effort.
@ZNLBaileywell said Bailey. Group project. & we all got an A.
What veteran takes did they dogmatically listen to that made the game worse? Most of their responses to feedback has been good. Crafting, more investment in endgame stuff, fireteam finder etc.
The negativity is just madness at this point. We went from possibly the best expansion ever which got extremely high ratings all around to constant rage as if Bungie did nothing but put pins in everyone's food after like one mid season. Rage baiting "journalists" and content creators are part of the blame, but the community is at fault for spreading it too. Word of mouth is extremely important. That's how Helldivers became a phenomenon despite its lack of hype before release. And all this community has spread is "bungie bad am I right guys haha upvote on the left" for years on end. No wonder we don't get any new players when the community acts like that.
(That's aimed at the general online community not Cammy or Cammy's community in particular these have always been much more positive and contrustive than others)
1:53 *looks down shaking head* it’s just not the same anymore after knowing that lol
Plenty of content creators and streamers help to ruin destiny. I never would have said Cammycakes had a hand in it though. Glad to hear the acknowledgment that the "how to ruin a game tri-fecta" includes content creators. Too many people deny it so irrationally
Cammy's only responsible for getting Sanguine Alchemy killed before Trials return /s
That intro cooked 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
On balance, content creators a huge net benefit to the player base. Seeing builds that look fun, watching people having fun playing content together, and seeing people react to the content that had dropped with TFS is what got me back into Destiny last year, and I think it draws and sustains a lot of casual and hardcore players.
I’m glad you’ve got that off your chest dude 😂. Well said man.
Ive been implementing a lot of your advice over the last couple of months, and I've gotten better with my game sense and engagements as a whole. Now that bungie has made it so average players can get to the lighthouse, I'm gonna play trials more often. Thanks Cam
Thank you for the explanation during the first 2:30 of this video. This exactly what the game needs.
Dishes, here I come!
Its crazy the people in the comment section blaming the customers for the product sold to them being terrible and complaining about it. People have been complaining about the seasonal model since season of the haunted and bungie has continued to only offer seasonal content. The core game modes are neglected and stale so theres nothing new all year. We paid for a year of content and we are given a crap sandwich and then told to take a break and go pay for another game. They sold the episodes to us as a change from the seasonal model all negative feedback is justified.
Would be nice if they put saint front and center in the tower each weekend as well. New players have np reason to go to the hangar, just make them aware it exists.
You da man!! You always break PvP down in a way that makes it easier for me to understand the why to what you’re doing.
Even your trials for lower skill players recently. Are ALL the things I did to move form lower to now average skill.
People
Just looking for someone to blame. And cc the easiest to do that with. Jealousy.
💙
Dude content creators have been trying to kill Destiny 2 during year 1. Instead of giving feedback and supporting the game, streamers like Krafty, Gothalion ( and many others) just shit talked this game and left. Anyone who they influenced have never gave Destiny a chance to this day. Guys like you and Cross are not the reason the game is dying, you're part of the reason the game is still going.
Dude that was in 2017, almost 8 years ago, and the game sucked at launch
@@EXPSpeeker yeah and? That was 8 years ago. Also, look at what EVERYONE was saying then. Nobody liked it
@@felix.e.a335 oops responded to the wrong person, I’m agreeing with you on the guy above us
@@JordanSlash not a single content creator liked Destiny 2 during year 1 or even asked for it.
Also, Destiny had multiple chances and always messed it up for no reason. People were coming back for lightfall after the success of season of seraph and witch queen and look how that turned out.
@@EXPSpeeker ah okay, but yeah that guy is talking nonsense
Hey Cam, if it wasn’t for this channel and your unique flavour of the game I wouldn’t have nearly the same interest in Destiny. From TV, Cross, Jake, CG, Byf and the rest (being an original basically) Bungie and the community owe you guys a huge debt of thanks for enriching the Destiny experience.
7:28 that gameplay right there sums up my trials experience
I hope to one day get to a trial adept farming that gives equivalent loot to say farming a harder gm but that will probably not happen this is a good step tho
That new pulse, I'm probably going to live in comp next season till I get a perfect roll.
Having these changes might be good might make the player pool filled with different people at least .
That low skill player video has actually helped me tremendously, last week I was ending games with positive k/ds and felt like I was actually contributing to the match vs the week before. I feel like I can confidently play any and all game modes because of how helpful that video was.
Yay my opinion is here!
Cam I wish I had your passion for pvp. I miss this game
Love you're opinion about it and about the bot thing considering bungie can't even pay thier own employees with all these layoffs ain't no way they could spend the money to make the bot thing even in private matches
Dude the only Creators worth following are ones like you. Some of us stick with the game and find other ways to enjoy it and I can easily credit you for spending more time in PVP and trials. Don’t take on any of the drama and keep doin what you do for the rest of us still left in the game
Cammy stay crushin it and being original and weird with the builds
The main thing I wish they kept was being able to track my flawless count.
Once I had got the rolls I wanted I was able to grind trials to get that number up.
It’s a pretty worthless number but it made it feel like i still had something to go for.
It will be interesting to see how the changes actually impact the game.
I am really looking forward to the loot though. Bungie managed to put 3 amazing trials weapons with excellent rolls out plus some of the nicest armour the game has seen for a while.
You a legend Cammy. Every single take is on the spot, seriously. Thank you for being you!
These changes are gonna be so W
cam is one of the only creators I'd love to match with on crucible and try to best (I can't he's too good) and maybe talk a bit after the match
hurts to be Brazilian 😭😭😭
cammy its not your fault, you are one of the saniest persons in this community, and most of then already have smooth brains, and that's a lot to say
The actual most annoying part was as an average trials solo player loading into a match made game, losing, and because I’m using a mercy card my win streak never actually happens because my random team mates leave the game before it technically ends
Cam is the most consistent d2 creator and a great person in general so f that noise!
Not sure if that's already part of changes to Trials but removing the power level advantage would probably be an extra incentive for more players to participate.
1st, I sub and watch your videos to improve my gameplay and builds. You're the best and most helpful. 2nd, the Trials changes upcoming is a W for all. There will probably be some bugs as usual or exploits, but for the most part I think these were changes that most of us wanted. 3rd, hate to expose myself but I sucked at PvP in D1 and early D2, but your videos helped me a lot to understand "How to Play PvP". So now, I'm holding close to a 2.0 k/d in QP modes and comp, but for some reason I still can't break 1.0 k/d in Trials. I have my clutch moments and have gone flawless many times. So I watched and continue to watch your videos to figure out my gameplay issues. In short, please continue to make great videos. Ignore the "haters" of the community. I appreciate what you do for us.
I will definitely give it to you, Cammy, you've been consistent and generally positive while being constructively critical. Its a breath of fresh air.
I hard dipped out on guys like Cross and Jake though; way too sick of the complaining. Since tuning out alot of the the noise and just enjoying the game on my own terms, its done wonders, i gotta say.
These changes might not bring in casuals, but it'll for sure bring back the 10s of thousands of lapsed PVP players, and encourage more dedicated PVE players to give it a chance, if only for the first weekend at least. That’s still a win for Bungie, and we all know Bungie needs one rn. I haven't even touched Trials since midway through Lightfall, so they already got me in. Making an IB version of Trials is certainly a choice tho, not sure if that was necessary considering they got rid of the flawless or bust system, but whatever. Seems like they could just combine them as is, but all these matchmaking systems are too confusing, I can't even tell if they're two separate pools or not.
Youre acting as if they fixed the sandbox, pvp sandbox was good in forsaken, whatever they do know the darkness subclasses have altered the pvp game
@retiredboi3175 Where tf did I mention the sandbox? I could give two shits how balanced PVP is at this stage of the game, I've given up on that a long time ago. Once you stop taking the game seriously and treat it like some party mode on Halo or COD, it becomes infinitely more fun. Frankly, idk how anybody treated it any other way, but that's a whole other tangent I could go on. I'm just happy they're finally respecting my time in Trials (if only they could do that for the whole game, lol).
Shooting ourselves on the foot is a team effort apparently
I used the last word to it's very satisfying
They were saying it was content creators fault? That’s what that video was about? Are you kidding me??? Y’all make my D2 experience so much better. Anyways, that’s all. Thank you for your videos ❤
i’ve never heard anyone blame content creators for the game being dead
edit: never mind all i had to do was check the comments!
Tbf I really don’t think that criticism is entirely unwarranted tbh
I know it's a team effort at Bungo but I'm feeling some CC - Mercules - Bungo alignment here...and it's feeling promising to me.
Let's see 🙏🏻
Me personally im gonna have fun chasing the white glow and the emblem. Curious about the new sniper as well if it can compete with cloudstrike or icebreaker remains to be seen
These are really good changes coming in heresy. I wonder what roll on the updated exalted truth will be the 5/5 🤔
I will say that something that's probably made the fanbase start turning on content creators is that, due to being longtime veterans with a ton of time to spend on Destiny, they tend to push for chages that demand the player play for longer periods of time. Multiple content creators were happy that Revenant wouldn't have craftable weapons and the power cap was being raised, despite those changes being received very negatively by the community at large.
0:39 Preach Cammy preach
It looks to me like people who just started Lighthouse Passage and didn't yet reach the Lighthouse will share the Open Skill pool with people on the Flawless Passage some of the time. That feels like it could be a problem when player count is low since players with
I'll return to the game once they bring back the First Curse.... I'm craving that Hand cannon
Cammycakes is so respectable and cool
@cammycakes thank you for all these years of wisdom I've truly benefited from your videos, but at this time I'm just exhausted from all the changes trough the last 10 years, the toxic community not all but it takes time to meet Good people through lfg, nerfs buffs drip-feed content, you know the list by now. Nobody contributed more to my apathy for this game more then Bungie themselves. After 18k hours played. But thank you for all your help.
I wish bungie would make Iron banner to 4v4. It would be give more breathing room on maps and kinda have that halo feel with objective game modes.
the old/current trials loot farming for low-mid skill only worked as a 3 stack
100% they meant it to help drag people back but none of my friends wanted to log back in just to get their asses kicked
Exalted Truth with WitheringGaze and Repulser Bracelet is going to basically make the Knucklehead Radar broken again.
It honestly falls just on devs tbh, content creators are not "partners" or affiliated and are just as much of a customers as the rest of the players are. The difference is that content creators have to make a living out of the games they play and stream.
Honestly it's a bit late, they had years and nobody guarantees that once things start getting a bit better Bungie will keep Bungieing.
I can't keep dining at the same restaurant if the only thing I like are appetizers. It's over.
Better topic, what kind of buff would you give the last word? Do it need a buff?
Put a big “How Does Trials Work” button at saint that has saint (with voice lines) talk you through how trials differs from regular crucible and how each passage works. It’s ridiculous that most of the games info can’t be found in game. Even with perks I can’t stand that in a menu and stat based min-max type of game like this that when I hover over moving target it doesn’t tell me exactly 10 AA while ADS
Cam always speaks the truth
I don’t mind matching high skill players, as long as my teammates are at equal skill.
goated cammy take as usual
There should be like a party game mode that it’s not super sweaty
Like big team battle from halo or warzone from halo 5
I'm excited
Thank you i agree with you
Thanks for making videos
Too less to late. I left because the basics are rotten: Infrastructure/Netcode and Cheating Security. And Bungie ramped up the abilities so now you do not even know if it was the ability spam, the cheater, the latency or a good player what fragged you. Or everything at once.
"To help with this friction, we will be setting it up so that any solo player that gets matched against a larger fireteam in either Trials or Competitive will be granted loss forgiveness for the match, on the condition that they do not quit, go AFK, or intentionally throw the game. Doing any of these actions will still result in a loss, and potentially a matchmaking restriction depending on the severity and number of occurrences."
They underestimate the creativity of intentional throwing.
Or, they're gonna not apply that by considering low statistics or bad behaviour as throwing
You severly underestimate how easy it is for the AFK algorithm to trigger in a match. And once it does no amount of effort can turn it off. I can almost guarantee loss forgiveness is going to be a rarity for a lot of awful players.
@ There is no need to afk to throw the game. Rush to death and say they tried their best, or miss every shot and say they tried their best. These are some creative ways to throw the game.
I definitely agree that it's not a single person's fault for where the game is, or rather mostly its reputation as I don't think it has ever been in any correlation to the game's actual quality to be honest. Even during its best days, generally people who play it will advise you not to play it yourself for whatever reason and if you're an outsider just looking at it and even the most dedicated players tell you not to pick it up, it WILL leave an impression. I don't really think there's a singular culprit here though, it's always been the general vibes around the game, starting with D1 launch even.
I also don't think you've ever done that either, I generally agree with most of your talking points on difficulty, modes etc. and with what you said about always trying to help people improve (the disconnect between good and bad players here is usually also pretty bad, neither side is really interested in listening to the other most of the time).
And yeah, of course Bungie themselves haven't really helped with this at all, be it the whole vaulting deal, upper management decisions, yadda yadda I don't need to lay this out. As you said it's a multi person job and I also don't think youtubers should be mindless advocates of their games, just constantly praising them nonstop or whatever. I do however think the negativity around the game at all times even by its own active community (even during its alleged best times) is incredibly draining.
Dude swear to god, the amount of people trying to kill the game just to get their video to 8 min mark so they can get some money is worse than pete parson flexxing his 17th car to his employee like you,cross and wallah is like the reason this game is still standing up on his toe,keep up your good work fam🙏
Thanks Cammy, as always appreciate your hard work and dedication to your craft. Your insights into the game, skill development are unparalleled. I hope many more find your videos and learn from them. I have always been a fan and appreciate you wanting to cover the game still.
I stop by from time to time just bc Cam is a homie. Miss yall sometimes.
Maybe if people didn't try going straight from Control 6s to Trials, they wouldn't find it so bad. Comp needs a rework to get players to use it to get better before hitting Trials. Comp is a deserted island.
they 100% did. It can be proven as well.
So is passage of mercy/ old passages still a thing? I would like guaranteed adepts from my time like the old system. Also thank god duos and trios matched gives rollback it sucked in trials to win 5 then get two pve warlord duos 3 times in a row. Will be good to see more people run trials tho
my king 👑!!!
Sorry it's not relevant to the video but I need advice. I love Crucible but I stink at it, I play on console and dont understand how I should be pacing shots, positioning etc.
With the Crimils Dagger for example, should I hold the trigger full auto and control the recoil, or just tap and pause and not bother controlling the recoil?
The game is getting to the point where the only people still playing are the cultists who will blame anyone but Bungie for the slow death of the game. Ignore them.
i really dislike checkpoint but ive always said its good when its an option available for the players that do want it.
3:46 point and case why health regen orbs are better now
Did u get your account back haven’t seen ya in a minute
@SlackRack I'm never getting it back and that's fine with me
@@Manstrual dam
That's why I value your opinion over view chasers
Cam, you’ve done more for new player crucible onboarding than Bungie has done in 10 years.
Content creators and bungie board oversight killed D2.
D2 vanilla pvp was mechanically fine then they tuned it to 3.25 speed because of twitch.
Next go around bungee has to make the game they want to make, and stand on it
D2 vanilla PvP was NOT fine when the meta was just 450rpm ARs or Better Devils or team shooting. It was boring and it got old pretty quickly. Double primaries and 2 minute cooldown abilities sucked bad, it’s what made Forsaken’s crucible so great because they got rid of the vanilla PvP meta.
Content creators have a minimal negative impact on the game. Bungie as been making mistake after mistake since D1. Passionate content creators and dedicated players are the only reason the game is still around.
Huh. This might actually get me to come back to Destiny for a bit. Left after Final Shape since things sort of dropped off.
I don't care about adepts. I want that ascendant artichoke.
yeah bungie needs to add more cealr things just like the changes made to ib, after all bungie should know that the playerbase can't read
This is how I learn that tik tac toe is a solved game? Unreal.
Coming from a player that is doomed to never leave skill island. I don’t think it’s the creators fault for constantly uploading on a game that’s been stale at best in pvp for the past couple years, taking about cheese, using cheese, and then talking about other ways to easily obtain success.
What needs to be seen is that high end pvp is no longer a big game advancement loot table. I
Rather it’s a cosmetic loot table that actually succeeds. I barely have 5-8 hours a week and I would rather play high end comp and go flawless for cosmetics over weapons and high stat gear.
Bungie has more than proven that high stat armor distribution in a pvp is some bs. So instead why can’t we just be given good armor and weapon cosmetics. Emblems aren’t enough, emotes aren’t enough. There are plenty of D1 cosmetics/armor that are readily portable too D2 that would act as easy cosmetic rewards in either high end Comp or Trials.
I don’t care about a new handcannon or pulse anymore, I don’t even care about a new dps option in master raids or gms, I just want stuff that makes me look good and is unique. As a very high skill player(sorry for the ego), I want cosmetics that younger me got nervous playing against, I.e. a full set of ornamented year 3 trials armor from D1.
Thanks for reading the Ted talk.
The matchmaking is the biggest problem. They put the best players on one team and less skilled on another. It's part of the algorithm. Guys are getting 28 combat ratings where the other team gets .30 or .50 ratings. No wonder new players don't stay. It's on purpose.
My genuine question that I would ask Bungie is why should someone play this game? We talk a lot about casual and hardcore players, but I think the fall of destiny is better explained if you look at it useing the classic magic pycographic profiles. What does this game provide for a Timmy, Johnny or Spike?
Spikes hate the randomness of that game, build crafting really isn't that rewarding for a Johnny, and exotics are not enticing the Timmys anymore and all of his favorite content got vaulted anyway. All of this can be fixed of course, but that will take time and money, both of which Bungie is running out of.
Just gotta say definitely not content creators faults for the game dying. One of the reasons we have what we want is because they invited people like dato, cammy, cross, ect to ask for feedback and they used that feedback to give us a lot of content we have. Obviously its a joint effort on the devs part as well no one is the sole reason for anything we have.