AWESOME list!!! BTW: *White Water* is my first pin purchase. I could NEVER let it go. I love/hate that you LOSE ALL YOUR RIVER CLASS WHEN YOU DRAIN!!! Very polarizing!!
mannn Addam's Family is my favorite. The callouts, especially for jackpots and multiball are just so good! Love the charisma in this game. But I'm maybe a medium-level player, so I don't mind this being a simpler game. The rules are easy to understand, though simple, and for me there's just enough things to do.
Had mine since 97 and play it all the time never gets boring. One of 7 machines and its part of the family. Addams family amazing game come on guys haha
Good List. Whitewater is one of my all-time favs though. I think it has the best/most refined layout of any machine. I wish more had the cohesive world under the glass.
The fact that you have TAF on the list at all indicates to me that you guys are more concerned with technology than history and playability. TAF at the time was the best ever game. New games have more advanced electronics and the whole play field is covered with ramps, toys and gadgets; if you have to have all that junk to enjoy pinball, just play a video game then. For example, Fire Power is a single level and has no ramps, but is one of my favorite machines because you have to have actual pinball skills to be good at it. Perhaps this list should be the most overpriced rather than overrated. Pinballs have become an investment; they almost always increase in value over time.
What is your top 10 fastest flowing pinball machines of all time? If you have clips please include them. I'm shopping for one I'm looking at f14, high speed, getaway. Also which pins have increased in value over the years the most?
Cirqus Voltaire is one of those where the artwork is way better than the gameplay. I like both Medieval Madness and Attack From Mars equally, but damn, if you didn’t know better, they’d might as well be the only two 90s Bally/Williams games made by how much they’re promoted. They’re good, but not *that* good, and they’re very repetitive gameplay strategy-wise. I love Twilight Zone though, but I would never in a million years pay the price it asks for. Even if there’s not one on location near me (which there isn’t), I’m perfectly content with playing it on Visual Pinball X.
Gents, love the show, appreciate all the videos.......would like to see a 'Top 10 Pinball Machines to Have in a Collection". Basically would like to know what machines you want to have at home for you and your friends to play, what would make you game room the most fun........
Would love for you guys to do some shows based on manufacturer. Maybe top 3 games by manufacturers (Sega, DataEast, Atari, CapCom, Gameplan, allied leasure, etc..). All the obscure manufacturers.
When I'm asking to the average Joe about pinball played in the past, I only got two responses: "I played a Pinball Machine" or "I played the Addams one". I don't know how Lawlor and his team did it, but it's the only pinball everyone remember by its theme.
I paid $3K for my Addams Family table back in the 90s, but I wish I had the regular one instead of the gold version. They made the gold version too easy compared to the original, so I end up playing the original on VPX and Arcooda more than the actual table. The Addams table is a beast to maintain too. I was surprised at #1 on the list because I’ve actually never heard of Quicksilver despite being a pinball fan since the 80s.
I agree with most of your list. In addition to gameplay; theme and sound effects can be factors in what makes a pinball machine great or boring as f**k. For me, I happen to love Big Bang Bar and Spirit for the science fiction aspect and the sound effects.
Safe Cracker is weird, but have some of the best callout, the backbox game is one of the best game into a pin, and it's just fun. The kind of pin you don't buy but you have fun playing on location
Batman 66? Surely you jest lads!? Might be average in the shots department but the artwork is stunning and it has a better integration of theme (video assets, call outs, art sound effects) than any other pinball. Wonderfully kitschy and wonderfully fun. You're welcome!
The artwork is stunning! The lcd DMD looks pretty, the game has depth, but the shots are absolutely not fun😂. I mean, who made the ramps, they are too narrow and the angles are weird. The playfiield is too small, too simple.
TAF is the most produced and sold pinball machines in the solid state era. They were played to to the point on route that it's rare to find one that isn't destroyed from just normal play wear. I don't really want or care for the game but... Overrated? I think it owns it popularity just based on its.... oh.... I don't know.... popularity?
I’m not surprised Quicksilver made the list, but #1? Is this because they sell for $7-8K now? Three years ago it would’ve been Star Gazer, but people are starting to realize Quicksilver is a great playing game. The layout is simple, but hey, it’s 1980. The flow is smooth and fast, the sound is fantastic, especially with a modified sound system, and the rules are perfect. The art? Ok you can argue that point, but there is a story behind it that makes it interesting.
Kingpin: I think people regard it so high just because of how uncommon it is and how it's one of the very few pinball games Capcom made Family Guy: Uhhh does any pinball enthusiast actually like this game? lol The layman, I understand but a pinball enthusiast? Batman '66: It's only popular because of '60 nostalgia. The layout is boring. Isn't this just a retread of Batman The Dark Knight by Stern? Elvira and the Party Monsters: I like this one better than Scared Stiff, to be honest. I would rank this one at a lot lower. Spirit: This is one that you have to dig deep and think about it's existence. The props are neat, I guess. Addams Family: Ehhh I like it.... Quicksilver: It does stink!
Pretty good list, only small thing I’d have an issue with is I’m afraid any bashing on Kingpin might result in it not getting remade, which means then Pinball Circus would never get remade and that’s one of my grails.
Addam's Family is one of my favorite pinballs. Though I do agree with your criticisms of it. I play it on Pinball Arcade. I'd like to one day have a pinball table setup with a large TV screen to play it on instead of using the Wii U.
I’m a medium player and have had this pin for 10 years. Still love it. It entertains the family when we have gatherings. I’m not sure what the price is today but I bought it for $4k and I thought that was a lot. SHOWTIME!!!
@@carlosmedrano7005 Back in the day when grocery stores and various other places had the Addam's Family pinball. There was ALWAYS something broke on it. I remember I played it a lot at a grocery store for years. Then I was somewhere else that so happened to have one, and I played it and was shocked when the hand came out. Because that other place that I played it at for years, I never knew there was a hand there as nothing every popped up from there as I guess it was broke. Then the movie theater that had one for several years, but the wire on the center ramp was broke, and thus with that wire broke, many features or whatever never got activated and it was almost pointless even playing it.
At 6:00, from what I saw, IMHO they(Stern) should have contacted DC/Warner and do a Batman 88' with Michael Keaton and make a better layout than what they did there. Like maybe an LE/Premium style Black Knight SOR, yes with a upper playfield but much faster and goes much farther to be more faithful and more true to it's 1988/89 PG:13 source material than all of the video game adaptations put together(and yes that means Sunsoft's legendary Sega Genesis game and Atari's short-lived kit based Coin-op).
Good show, but holy crap Zach, you really hate BM66. Must be a generational problem. I grew up with the show- Stern and co. nailed the theme and it is a great shooter. Favorite shot? Left orbit to scoop of course to get wizard mode. This was my first game and still favorite... by far. Still own it, play it several times a week (over 5k plays), friends (my age) and son love it. Have 19 other pins and have played all of the top 300 or so. Yes, I am biased to the other end of the spectrum- BM66 is my #1. I do agree with Greg, the other BM games are not great. What about Medieval Madness or Monster Bash? For that money I would definitely buy a SECOND BM 66. So, hopefully bad pinball opinions skip generations and your kids will love it! Keep up the great shows- fun to watch! By the way, if you can find me a good deal on a BM 66, let me know...
I know it is not very related. But I don't have a lot of money. I got my first pinball. What is Cyclone. I also did not play many pinball machines in my life time. (accept for on a computer but that doesn't count) So I don't really have much to compare it to. So just out of curiosity. How well does that game stack compared to others of that era? And you can be dead honest. Because I like this pin. And I don't know any better. Because I don't have something to compare it to. But for pinball fans that knows something about pins. what is your opinion about cyclone?
You don't like Safecracker!? It's one of my absolute favourite games, and the one game that will never leave my collection. 1. It's TOUGH. When you earn a free game you get a real sense of achievement. 2. It's the most action-packed playfield per square inch of any pinball machine: playfield spinner, 3 banks of drop targets, a vari-target, scoop, catapult, ramp, three pops. 3. The board game and token features are icing on the cherry. I agree with the rest of your list. You could have added Playboy and KISS - boring games which command way too high a price just due to their themes.
Safe Cracker is Cool AF. Just left a Museum with all the best games. Lord of the Rings was my Favorite.They have them all $15 all day no one their. Outer Banks, Nc. Flippers Arcade
"...long way down the shitter. Cause that games: SUCKS." - Zach 7:19 I'll be real, Greg is why I watch this show. He's funnier, better looking, we have more similar tastes, and Gosh Darnit: People like him. However, the above quote is the truest thing ever said on SDTM. Zach, take a bow.
Unbelievably kind of you. Thanks for the support of Greg. If only we could clone him and replace the clone with the shit-looking shilling ass hat Zach. Sigh, maybe one day.
The only thing that really surprised me was that Addams Family wasn’t number one. For the others, I mostly agree gameplay wise. White Water is tough though as it’s really fun. It may be overpriced for what it is, but on the flip side of that, if it were a 3-4K pin, would many people sell it? In a larger collection it’s a great game. I certainly miss mine.
Also, Safecracker is fun at TPF when trying to get the special yearly coin. But otherwise it’s just ok. It works as a unique attraction I guess, but at that price point there are so many machines plus the cash that I’d rather have.
If anything, I'd say Safecracker is UNDERrated. I've bought it back in the day because it was rare and unique (and for the equivalent of 1300 USD in almost mint condition, would you pass it up?), but everybody warned me it was terrible, it made no money for arcade operators, and the timed play was a horrible idea. Now, it's true the token dispenser is a novelty that becomes completely useless once you bring the game home, but the gameplay? Trying to set the high score? It's fast, frenetic, you can never stop the ball and relax 'cause you're always trying to get some bonus time; and the luck factor of the dice rolls makes the game unpredictable. In short, I've found it to be really addictive, a "just one more game" pin. Give it a chance and learn the rules, it's worth it.
@@SDTM Thanks! Just my two cents of course ;) And watch out for bent Safecracker playfields, sadly it's a common issue and it can make the ramp frustratingly hard to shoot all the way up, like the LOTR ring shot (making jackpots almost impossible in multiball). BTW thanks for the interesting video!
@@Bob-kc Yeah, like many collectors who started early, I consider myself very, very lucky to have built my collection in better, more reasonable times. I remember passing up a Medieval Madness 'cause they asked me 3000 euros, something like 3650 USD... I laughed and thought it was ridiculous (just for reference, an Indiana Jones was considered on the expensive side and it commonly sold for 1550 USD). Needless to say, that's a pin I'll never own... but isn't MM a bit overrated, after all? (that's like the fox and the grapes, I know) ;)
Whitewater and Addams Family are great. I think you could have found some overrated games to take their place - especially since you admit you want an Addams. I'd almost respect your list if you selected Wizard of Oz, and I own one!
Would you guys trade a pretty nice condition Data East Star Wars (w/ the updated code) for a Jack-Bot or an ok condition No Good Gofers that needs a little work?
i completely agree with Addams Family. When i returned to the game after having not played for over ten years then started catching up by playing the new modern Sterns like Godzilla, AIQ, Rush, and JP, i quickly realized that Addams Family is ultra overrated and that nostalgia bias is clouding too much of people's judgement. Maybe Addams Family was the high water mark in '92/'93, but 30 years later and these new games shit ALL OVER it. Even games from Addams Family era are better games, in my opinion. Monster Bash, Tales of the Arabian Nights, and even Fish Tales are three games i can think off the top of my head without effort that are better than AF. Whitewater you guys dropped the ball or it was strategic just to get people into the comment section. Either way, i can't hate on that because it was either clever, or relateable; since i drop the ball many times myself every day.
When I think of "overrated", two words instantly come to mind: _Fish. Tales._ With a boring playfield layout, one of the stupidest themes for an early 90s game, lightning flippers on a game that really doesn't need them, a multiball that's obnoxiously difficult to score _anything_ in, and a ruleset shallower than a fishing pond in California in the middle of July, Fish Tales is a game that I honestly don't understand all the love for. It's mind-boggling how Mark Ritchie games are either undisputed classics (see Sorcerer, Taxi, Indiana Jones) or total duds (see this, Police Force, Big Buck Hunter) with practically no middle ground.
I've never liked Addams family, but I quite enjoyed Big bang bar, especially this weird, adult oriented SF theme. It's not by any mean the best pinball I've played but I quite enjoyed it.
After your last video, I was searching the net for the Tiki girl shirt. Nothing found and ....bam... you guys turn up with two of them 😂 nice list, totally agree with Addams Family and White Water
I was wrong. The overrated list only featured two "modern" Sterns and the list averaged ~1994. The underrated list featured two modern Sterns and the average was the year 1,999.9.
I got to agree with you on Addams Family. I also feel the same way about Scared Stiff to a degree. I'd also say Star Trek: the Next Generation is a bit overrated as well, as well as Terminator 2. For some reason ST:TNG sitting at number 2 on IPDB's Top SS tables. I'd rather play some other tables like No Good Gophers, Medieval Madness, Attack From Mars, or Dr. Who. Still fun though.
I’d like STNG if the outlines weren’t practically vacuums. The theme itself is so well-done though. That said, I think Stern’s Star Trek is a much better game in comparison. T2 had the unfortunate circumstance of being one of the first DMD games, so the rule set resembles more of a System 11 game than a more complex DMD game. Plus, the theme suffers from having to avoid spoilers, and I think it could be much more interesting if they could’ve taken full advantage of the movie.
As a trekkie I think sttng is very engaging, they hired the main casts to do voicelines, the music is so good. The modes are entertaining and forgivable and two cannon at the side add gameplay variety. Sterns star trek is fun too, it has a better flow, but the modes aren't that satisfying, they let you choose mode when you launch the ball, which takes away the satisfaction of starting a mode. And the playfiield is bland compared to sttng.
I think you guys lost focus on this list. You equated price with the overall desirability of a machine. There are many factors that go into the price of a machine that have very little to do with how "good" a game is. Most serious collectors know Elvira is only a good game but also the Elvira name carries its own additional price tag. As far as TAF, goes, you didn't even mention the music, sound calls, and light show which are the major selling point on that machine. Finally quicksilver as far as look yeah it's ugly, but gameplay wise it's a better eight ball deluxe. Now overrated is a very subjective thing and for me it's Tron, aka (Fun House for the new millenium) Not your guys best list
I got the impression they were making the list almost purely from a entertaining play vs. price. I love the looks of Haunted House and 8 Ball Deluxe but don't want to own them because I don't think they'd hold my attention long.
There is the question though of why Elvira carries an additional price tag. I don’t get it. I watched Elvira as a kid, but it is nothing special now. If Joe Bob had tits, he’d have 20 pinball machines!
you guys keep saying how expensive these pinball machines are but I can't find any pinball machines that cheap. Anyone got s link for good affordable pinball machines?
I HATE YOU! (Just kidding, lol...) You guys have played a lot more games than I but I was surprised to see Addams Family so high on this list. I owned a Twilight Zone back in the day and enjoyed it so much I searched high and low for an Addams. I found one in rough shape and replaced the ramps, plastics, and playfield with new parts from Steve Young's Pinball Resource in 2000. I played it for a while but decided it wasn't as good as Twilight Zone and that I could buy three games for what it was worth at the time. So, is it overrated? Sure. But personally I think it's a pretty fun game and there are so many hyped games that flat out suck I don't think it's bad enough to make the list of shame. I would add Star Trek Next Generation at #2 in it's place.
I played Addams Family at the expo and I was bored with it after about 3 minutes. Rule of thumb on any pin is get what you like. Don’t listen to anyone else. You can use the top 100 on Pinside to narrow things down, but there are plenty on that list that I don’t like as well. So, get the pins that interest you and definitely don’t get a pin with a theme that doesn’t interest you just because someone else said it was good.
Indiana Jones is my all time favorite. Love Adams Family, Creature from the black lagoon, Star Trek, attack from Mars, and of course the original KISS machine. I worked at an arcade when it came out.
IJ, seriously? I never got into it because for some reason the ball only ever has two speeds: stupid fast and crazy slow. Which makes getting a proper "flow" going almost impossible. All IMHO, of course!
@@caddelworthit has many different modes, and they are fun. Nice music and dialogues from the films, very immersive. But the flow is awkward, those ramps are difficult to shoot, so most of the time the ball just bounce around in the bottom half playfiield.
Whitewater I'm kinda "meh" as to if it belongs on the list. I like it, but don't love it. Spirit I haven't ever played, so I can't comment. The rest? I 100% agree. Especially Adams Family. Good god. Yes, it was groundbreaking in what it did. Wonderful. But it's been surpassed so many times since then.
I'll add that if you own a White Water, get on Pinside and talk to Matt's Basement Arcade. He sells the LH-6C ROMS which add an IMMENSE amount of light show, audio and bug fixes. It is like night and day. I will own another one day.
I was so ready for Cirqus to be on this list, I was formulating the slurs I was going to use in this reply. Now all I have left to say is this is a solid list. I hope it drives down the price on WW so I can buy one though.
Replace Batman 66 which is an excellent pin with the 3 most overrated WMS tables ever... Medieval Madness, Theatre of Magic, and Tales Of The Arabian nights!! Those 3 pins can get really boring if you are an average player ! Medieval might have some fantastic stuff, and many multiballs, but it is just a castle bshing fest!!
Pure attempt to generate controversy with the Addams Family. Come on... Easily the greatest pinball game of all time. No close second, although second is totally up for grabs.
@@Hyperbolic_G I just meant more modern tables that have been developed between 2016-2023. I enjoy the classic playfields a lot, but some of these more modern takes are starting to really sink their teeth into the nitty gritty of the game and make the rules very in depth.
Honestly would have bet some money that Medieval Madness would make the list. For that price to me it's one of the most overrated pins. Great episode as always guys!
Can't agree with you there. I had a MM for a few years. It's a great game... the trolls that pop up, the ability to stake multiballs, and the unique drawbridge/gate/castle toy.
The Addams Family is an iconic pinball table, and the industry wouldn't be where it is without it. In fact, the industry has long since outgrown it. We all need to move on.
I’m glad that Stern has finally moved on from DMDs and relying on playfield gimmicks that have existed since the early 90s even if it took JJP kicking them in the rear to do it.
@@Logan912 I'm very new to the pinball scene, but I am not a big fan of the LCD displays. Dot matrix has a classic feel to it, even if it isn't as practical. Every frame shown is taylor made for it, making it unique. I associate it with pinball. To me, having an LCD screen with pinball is like having an arcade machine use an Xbox controller instead of a joystick. It might be more practical, but it doesn't have that "feel."
@@bubbythebear6891 that's good and fine. But pinball is more than just "classics" and it is not a "classic" game since there are still machines currently being produced (most fortunately). If you need "classic" in order to enjoy pinball, because that's what you associate the game with (no different than nostalgia, really...), then just stick to your old classics and enjoy yourself. But companies don't need to stick to their guns from 30 years ago just to appease a lame minority, and all for a reason like "LCD displays don't give off a 'feel' that i like. Either de-volve into DMDs again or i won't be dropping quarters into your machines!".
@@BootsORiley I see your point. I'm not at all wanting pinball manufacturers to return to DMDs, as that would disappoint more people than please. I'm just saying I prefer the look of DMDs. I really enjoy most modern pinball tables, about as consistently to the old ones.
Thank you for calling out TAF for what it is. I feel like every time I say that it's overrated I get attacked. I owned one for 6 months and never thought twice about trading it out. It's not a bad pinball, just extremely overrated and overpriced.
I thought Adams Family would be 1st. Whitewater was a surprise, and I don't enjoy Batman either. As a sidenote I guess I would put Deadpool and Metallica on there as I just don't understand the scoring enough i suppose. Even tho Metallica was my favorite band going into high school.
White water is amazing. Except the price. But damn that game just makes me feel good.
One of my favs.
Safe Cracker does suck though...
@Blas4ublasphemy I love safe cracker. honestly it's gotta good gimmick.
AWESOME list!!!
BTW: *White Water* is my first pin purchase. I could NEVER let it go.
I love/hate that you LOSE ALL YOUR RIVER CLASS WHEN YOU DRAIN!!! Very polarizing!!
mannn Addam's Family is my favorite. The callouts, especially for jackpots and multiball are just so good! Love the charisma in this game. But I'm maybe a medium-level player, so I don't mind this being a simpler game. The rules are easy to understand, though simple, and for me there's just enough things to do.
Had mine since 97 and play it all the time never gets boring. One of 7 machines and its part of the family. Addams family amazing game come on guys haha
Good List. Whitewater is one of my all-time favs though. I think it has the best/most refined layout of any machine. I wish more had the cohesive world under the glass.
Agreed. Plus, _White Water_ has what IMHO is one of the two BEST Chris Granner music scores (the other one is _The Bally Game Show_ ).
The main theme is literally a one second loop lol
People who think White water is overrated have never experienced true joy in life.
This is an objectively correct statement.
Godless Heathens.
The fact that you have TAF on the list at all indicates to me that you guys are more concerned with technology than history and playability. TAF at the time was the best ever game. New games have more advanced electronics and the whole play field is covered with ramps, toys and gadgets; if you have to have all that junk to enjoy pinball, just play a video game then. For example, Fire Power is a single level and has no ramps, but is one of my favorite machines because you have to have actual pinball skills to be good at it. Perhaps this list should be the most overpriced rather than overrated. Pinballs have become an investment; they almost always increase in value over time.
Ok, I took your advice... I purchased my first Pin . And yes I got Deadpool !!!!! I’m so excited !!!!!!!!
What is your top 10 fastest flowing pinball machines of all time? If you have clips please include them. I'm shopping for one I'm looking at f14, high speed, getaway. Also which pins have increased in value over the years the most?
No fear extremely fast flowing
@@nicholasdaniel9496 This game is your best bang for your buck and faster than the 3 OP listed. Theme is kind of a bummer though
@@canyoufinda you're crazy the theme rocks
Hope you boys got your flame suits on 😂
Some bold takes on this one. Thanks for the vid!
My Addams Family lasted less than two weeks. There's only so many times I can shoot the ramp then the scoop! Good list fellas, agreed on quite a few.
Totally agree with you I rented Addams Family for a month I was done in week... it’s just Bear (ramp) and Chair (scoop)...
Love the channel! You guys should do a top ten "Best Bang for your Buck Pins" vid! Fantastic job guys 🤟
That would be a cool vid!
They have... It’s called “Most Underrated games” 😅👍🏼
@@jacoblykke5797 I thought about that after I posted 🤣
I can see your reasoning. For me it's Medieval Madness, Circus Voltaire and Twilight Zone. All great games, but the hype is to big for these imo.
CGC Made MM an all star tho. Cactus Canyon will sit in the top 10 when it comes out too.
A remake of Twilight Zone would be cool though so you could buy a new one cheaper than the ridiculous money they're asking for these.
Agree with C.V.. The game plays only sideways and not up/down.. Sucks...
Cirqus Voltaire is one of those where the artwork is way better than the gameplay. I like both Medieval Madness and Attack From Mars equally, but damn, if you didn’t know better, they’d might as well be the only two 90s Bally/Williams games made by how much they’re promoted. They’re good, but not *that* good, and they’re very repetitive gameplay strategy-wise.
I love Twilight Zone though, but I would never in a million years pay the price it asks for. Even if there’s not one on location near me (which there isn’t), I’m perfectly content with playing it on Visual Pinball X.
How in the blue hell am I just discovering you guys. From Australia and you guys rock. Love your stuff. Subscribed.
Godzilla. The magna grab is awesome and ramps are great, but it only has two props: mechagidzilla and the building
Hell the Pro has fuck all since there's no bridge, obviouisly no moving building and Mechagodzilla's a plastic cutout.
I don't like any pinball on your list, so nicely done :)
Whew
@@SDTMhaha. I just picked up a Xenon and a Black Knight, two of my all-time favs to add with my Haunted House pinball.
Simpsons pinball party. Idk why anyone likes it! The upper playfield is the only redeeming factor for me haha
Sorry, Addams Family is pure fun, as well as a great game. it's earned its reputation.
No it's overated. I've played it a few times, but I can't get into it. I mean the hand is cool, but that's really it.
Gents, love the show, appreciate all the videos.......would like to see a 'Top 10 Pinball Machines to Have in a Collection". Basically would like to know what machines you want to have at home for you and your friends to play, what would make you game room the most fun........
Would love for you guys to do some shows based on manufacturer. Maybe top 3 games by manufacturers (Sega, DataEast, Atari, CapCom, Gameplan, allied leasure, etc..). All the obscure manufacturers.
Zaccaria: don't forfget Zaccaria!
If I had to get rid of every machine I own except for one, it would be White Water. You must have been smoking solder.
Man I love middle drains, totally worth the money
you guys are wrong on half of this. give me a break. all that matters is if someone likes it. your opinions have zero value to many people
When I'm asking to the average Joe about pinball played in the past, I only got two responses: "I played a Pinball Machine" or "I played the Addams one". I don't know how Lawlor and his team did it, but it's the only pinball everyone remember by its theme.
I paid $3K for my Addams Family table back in the 90s, but I wish I had the regular one instead of the gold version. They made the gold version too easy compared to the original, so I end up playing the original on VPX and Arcooda more than the actual table. The Addams table is a beast to maintain too. I was surprised at #1 on the list because I’ve actually never heard of Quicksilver despite being a pinball fan since the 80s.
Where are you getting your prices from. All these games sell 10 grand plus on pinside.
I agree with most of your list. In addition to gameplay; theme and sound effects can be factors in what makes a pinball machine great or boring as f**k. For me, I happen to love Big Bang Bar and Spirit for the science fiction aspect and the sound effects.
Safe Cracker is weird, but have some of the best callout, the backbox game is one of the best game into a pin, and it's just fun. The kind of pin you don't buy but you have fun playing on location
If you can ever find one on location. Safecracker is more of a personal collection game now, doubt anyone puts those on route anymore.
@@sadboi7537 Well in France we don't have much pinballs anyway, it's mostly in pin convention
Sold mine for $2200 in 2004. As crappy as the gameplay is, it sure is a pretty machine. Betcha it is worth a lot more now.
Batman 66? Surely you jest lads!? Might be average in the shots department but the artwork is stunning and it has a better integration of theme (video assets, call outs, art sound effects) than any other pinball. Wonderfully kitschy and wonderfully fun. You're welcome!
The artwork is stunning! The lcd DMD looks pretty, the game has depth, but the shots are absolutely not fun😂. I mean, who made the ramps, they are too narrow and the angles are weird. The playfiield is too small, too simple.
I actually love Sega's Batman Forever...idk presentation goes a long way for me, and I'm nostalgic for that era
Got my Whitewater for $1200 about 8 yrs ago, not complaining!
That's a very good price, I would have added to my bank of pins..
God damn! That’s a steal! What kind of condition was it in?
would you recomend a 1 pin stern collection for a first time buyer
Guardians of the galaxy!!
TAF is the most produced and sold pinball machines in the solid state era. They were played to to the point on route that it's rare to find one that isn't destroyed from just normal play wear. I don't really want or care for the game but... Overrated? I think it owns it popularity just based on its.... oh.... I don't know.... popularity?
Addams Family is probably the best pin ever
I’m not surprised Quicksilver made the list, but #1? Is this because they sell for $7-8K now? Three years ago it would’ve been Star Gazer, but people are starting to realize Quicksilver is a great playing game.
The layout is simple, but hey, it’s 1980. The flow is smooth and fast, the sound is fantastic, especially with a modified sound system, and the rules are perfect. The art? Ok you can argue that point, but there is a story behind it that makes it interesting.
Kingpin: I think people regard it so high just because of how uncommon it is and how it's one of the very few pinball games Capcom made
Family Guy: Uhhh does any pinball enthusiast actually like this game? lol The layman, I understand but a pinball enthusiast?
Batman '66: It's only popular because of '60 nostalgia. The layout is boring. Isn't this just a retread of Batman The Dark Knight by Stern?
Elvira and the Party Monsters: I like this one better than Scared Stiff, to be honest. I would rank this one at a lot lower.
Spirit: This is one that you have to dig deep and think about it's existence. The props are neat, I guess.
Addams Family: Ehhh I like it....
Quicksilver: It does stink!
Pretty good list, only small thing I’d have an issue with is I’m afraid any bashing on Kingpin might result in it not getting remade, which means then Pinball Circus would never get remade and that’s one of my grails.
Addam's Family is one of my favorite pinballs. Though I do agree with your criticisms of it. I play it on Pinball Arcade. I'd like to one day have a pinball table setup with a large TV screen to play it on instead of using the Wii U.
I’m a medium player and have had this pin for 10 years. Still love it. It entertains the family when we have gatherings. I’m not sure what the price is today but I bought it for $4k and I thought that was a lot. SHOWTIME!!!
@@carlosmedrano7005 Back in the day when grocery stores and various other places had the Addam's Family pinball. There was ALWAYS something broke on it.
I remember I played it a lot at a grocery store for years. Then I was somewhere else that so happened to have one, and I played it and was shocked when the hand came out. Because that other place that I played it at for years, I never knew there was a hand there as nothing every popped up from there as I guess it was broke.
Then the movie theater that had one for several years, but the wire on the center ramp was broke, and thus with that wire broke, many features or whatever never got activated and it was almost pointless even playing it.
At 6:00, from what I saw, IMHO they(Stern) should have contacted DC/Warner and do a Batman 88' with Michael Keaton and make a better layout than what they did there. Like maybe an LE/Premium style Black Knight SOR, yes with a upper playfield but much faster and goes much farther to be more faithful and more true to it's 1988/89 PG:13 source material than all of the video game adaptations put together(and yes that means Sunsoft's legendary Sega Genesis game and Atari's short-lived kit based Coin-op).
Good show, but holy crap Zach, you really hate BM66. Must be a generational problem. I grew up with the show- Stern and co. nailed the theme and it is a great shooter. Favorite shot? Left orbit to scoop of course to get wizard mode. This was my first game and still favorite... by far. Still own it, play it several times a week (over 5k plays), friends (my age) and son love it. Have 19 other pins and have played all of the top 300 or so. Yes, I am biased to the other end of the spectrum- BM66 is my #1.
I do agree with Greg, the other BM games are not great.
What about Medieval Madness or Monster Bash? For that money I would definitely buy a SECOND BM 66.
So, hopefully bad pinball opinions skip generations and your kids will love it!
Keep up the great shows- fun to watch!
By the way, if you can find me a good deal on a BM 66, let me know...
Cant argue with much on the list , nice one guys.. but where was the bonus scene at the end?!
TiltingT Pinball nothing for this episode but we agree, we love some outtakes, but they have to actually be outtakes.
@@SDTM Look at the professionals nailing it on the first take!.. Greg will be Hollywood Bone before we know it! 😅🤣
4:43 Oh, my, God! White Water sucks! Playing that game on location is a nightmare because there's no ball save.
Quicksilver is TERRIBLE lol
I know it is not very related. But I don't have a lot of money. I got my first pinball. What is Cyclone. I also did not play many pinball machines in my life time. (accept for on a computer but that doesn't count) So I don't really have much to compare it to. So just out of curiosity. How well does that game stack compared to others of that era? And you can be dead honest. Because I like this pin. And I don't know any better. Because I don't have something to compare it to. But for pinball fans that knows something about pins. what is your opinion about cyclone?
Cyclone is a classic!! Lots of fun
You don't like Safecracker!? It's one of my absolute favourite games, and the one game that will never leave my collection.
1. It's TOUGH. When you earn a free game you get a real sense of achievement.
2. It's the most action-packed playfield per square inch of any pinball machine: playfield spinner, 3 banks of drop targets, a vari-target, scoop, catapult, ramp, three pops.
3. The board game and token features are icing on the cherry.
I agree with the rest of your list. You could have added Playboy and KISS - boring games which command way too high a price just due to their themes.
Safe Cracker is Cool AF. Just left a Museum with all the best games. Lord of the Rings was my Favorite.They have them all $15 all day no one their. Outer Banks, Nc. Flippers Arcade
@v1rtu050 , agreed about SC. The one in the Dutch Pinball Museum in Rotterdam is usually working, for those of you looking to play one for real.
"...long way down the shitter. Cause that games: SUCKS." - Zach 7:19
I'll be real, Greg is why I watch this show. He's funnier, better looking, we have more similar tastes, and Gosh Darnit: People like him. However, the above quote is the truest thing ever said on SDTM. Zach, take a bow.
Unbelievably kind of you. Thanks for the support of Greg. If only we could clone him and replace the clone with the shit-looking shilling ass hat Zach. Sigh, maybe one day.
The only thing that really surprised me was that Addams Family wasn’t number one.
For the others, I mostly agree gameplay wise. White Water is tough though as it’s really fun. It may be overpriced for what it is, but on the flip side of that, if it were a 3-4K pin, would many people sell it? In a larger collection it’s a great game. I certainly miss mine.
Yeah I want a White Water again (Zach)
Also, Safecracker is fun at TPF when trying to get the special yearly coin. But otherwise it’s just ok. It works as a unique attraction I guess, but at that price point there are so many machines plus the cash that I’d rather have.
If anything, I'd say Safecracker is UNDERrated. I've bought it back in the day because it was rare and unique (and for the equivalent of 1300 USD in almost mint condition, would you pass it up?), but everybody warned me it was terrible, it made no money for arcade operators, and the timed play was a horrible idea. Now, it's true the token dispenser is a novelty that becomes completely useless once you bring the game home, but the gameplay? Trying to set the high score? It's fast, frenetic, you can never stop the ball and relax 'cause you're always trying to get some bonus time; and the luck factor of the dice rolls makes the game unpredictable. In short, I've found it to be really addictive, a "just one more game" pin. Give it a chance and learn the rules, it's worth it.
catoblepag good take
@@SDTM Thanks! Just my two cents of course ;) And watch out for bent Safecracker playfields, sadly it's a common issue and it can make the ramp frustratingly hard to shoot all the way up, like the LOTR ring shot (making jackpots almost impossible in multiball). BTW thanks for the interesting video!
Safecracker would be great for $1300! But for $7000...that’s a very different story.
@@Bob-kc Yeah, like many collectors who started early, I consider myself very, very lucky to have built my collection in better, more reasonable times. I remember passing up a Medieval Madness 'cause they asked me 3000 euros, something like 3650 USD... I laughed and thought it was ridiculous (just for reference, an Indiana Jones was considered on the expensive side and it commonly sold for 1550 USD). Needless to say, that's a pin I'll never own... but isn't MM a bit overrated, after all? (that's like the fox and the grapes, I know) ;)
Whitewater and Addams Family are great. I think you could have found some overrated games to take their place - especially since you admit you want an Addams. I'd almost respect your list if you selected Wizard of Oz, and I own one!
Anon Ymous believe me, I was considering WOZ but at the end of the day, the code depth and innovation are huge
You forgot the game behind you. The Beatles. Great music. Game holy crap disappointing.
Thanks for making this video that was fun!
every time it hits stewie pinball, my smile immediately drops.
Would you guys trade a pretty nice condition Data East Star Wars (w/ the updated code) for a Jack-Bot or an ok condition No Good Gofers that needs a little work?
Addams Family, yeah I was waiting for that to come up and I find the left side playfield very restricted
i completely agree with Addams Family. When i returned to the game after having not played for over ten years then started catching up by playing the new modern Sterns like Godzilla, AIQ, Rush, and JP, i quickly realized that Addams Family is ultra overrated and that nostalgia bias is clouding too much of people's judgement. Maybe Addams Family was the high water mark in '92/'93, but 30 years later and these new games shit ALL OVER it. Even games from Addams Family era are better games, in my opinion. Monster Bash, Tales of the Arabian Nights, and even Fish Tales are three games i can think off the top of my head without effort that are better than AF.
Whitewater you guys dropped the ball or it was strategic just to get people into the comment section. Either way, i can't hate on that because it was either clever, or relateable; since i drop the ball many times myself every day.
Where can I get one of those T shirts ?
When I think of "overrated", two words instantly come to mind: _Fish. Tales._ With a boring playfield layout, one of the stupidest themes for an early 90s game, lightning flippers on a game that really doesn't need them, a multiball that's obnoxiously difficult to score _anything_ in, and a ruleset shallower than a fishing pond in California in the middle of July, Fish Tales is a game that I honestly don't understand all the love for. It's mind-boggling how Mark Ritchie games are either undisputed classics (see Sorcerer, Taxi, Indiana Jones) or total duds (see this, Police Force, Big Buck Hunter) with practically no middle ground.
I've never liked Addams family, but I quite enjoyed Big bang bar, especially this weird, adult oriented SF theme. It's not by any mean the best pinball I've played but I quite enjoyed it.
After your last video, I was searching the net for the Tiki girl shirt. Nothing found and ....bam... you guys turn up with two of them 😂 nice list, totally agree with Addams Family and White Water
I was wrong. The overrated list only featured two "modern" Sterns and the list averaged ~1994. The underrated list featured two modern Sterns and the average was the year 1,999.9.
I got to agree with you on Addams Family. I also feel the same way about Scared Stiff to a degree. I'd also say Star Trek: the Next Generation is a bit overrated as well, as well as Terminator 2. For some reason ST:TNG sitting at number 2 on IPDB's Top SS tables. I'd rather play some other tables like No Good Gophers, Medieval Madness, Attack From Mars, or Dr. Who. Still fun though.
I’d like STNG if the outlines weren’t practically vacuums. The theme itself is so well-done though. That said, I think Stern’s Star Trek is a much better game in comparison.
T2 had the unfortunate circumstance of being one of the first DMD games, so the rule set resembles more of a System 11 game than a more complex DMD game. Plus, the theme suffers from having to avoid spoilers, and I think it could be much more interesting if they could’ve taken full advantage of the movie.
As a trekkie I think sttng is very engaging, they hired the main casts to do voicelines, the music is so good. The modes are entertaining and forgivable and two cannon at the side add gameplay variety. Sterns star trek is fun too, it has a better flow, but the modes aren't that satisfying, they let you choose mode when you launch the ball, which takes away the satisfaction of starting a mode. And the playfiield is bland compared to sttng.
I think you guys lost focus on this list. You equated price with the overall desirability of a machine. There are many factors that go into the price of a machine that have very little to do with how "good" a game is.
Most serious collectors know Elvira is only a good game but also the Elvira name carries its own additional price tag.
As far as TAF, goes, you didn't even mention the music, sound calls, and light show which are the major selling point on that machine.
Finally quicksilver as far as look yeah it's ugly, but gameplay wise it's a better eight ball deluxe.
Now overrated is a very subjective thing and for me it's Tron, aka (Fun House for the new millenium)
Not your guys best list
I got the impression they were making the list almost purely from a entertaining play vs. price. I love the looks of Haunted House and 8 Ball Deluxe but don't want to own them because I don't think they'd hold my attention long.
There is the question though of why Elvira carries an additional price tag. I don’t get it. I watched Elvira as a kid, but it is nothing special now.
If Joe Bob had tits, he’d have 20 pinball machines!
Do you have a top underrated pin list?
Yes we do
never knew there were 2 different kingpins! i was thinking of the older one, (gottleib 1973) didn't know about this one. cool!
Love Batman 66. Favorite shot: Fighting the crane. The ramps are sexy shots too.
you guys keep saying how expensive these pinball machines are but I can't find any pinball machines that cheap. Anyone got s link for good affordable pinball machines?
The most controversial video on the internet! Shirts are 🔥
Elvira and the Party Monsters, made money in the bars... The game was not too complicated... the game was just right for the times.
I HATE YOU! (Just kidding, lol...) You guys have played a lot more games than I but I was surprised to see Addams Family so high on this list. I owned a Twilight Zone back in the day and enjoyed it so much I searched high and low for an Addams. I found one in rough shape and replaced the ramps, plastics, and playfield with new parts from Steve Young's Pinball Resource in 2000. I played it for a while but decided it wasn't as good as Twilight Zone and that I could buy three games for what it was worth at the time. So, is it overrated? Sure. But personally I think it's a pretty fun game and there are so many hyped games that flat out suck I don't think it's bad enough to make the list of shame. I would add Star Trek Next Generation at #2 in it's place.
Agree with Whitewater being overated, I think It’s sister Fishtales is better
was with you right till you s***** all over addams family that is one of the best pinballs
Hahaha many would agree with you
I played Addams Family at the expo and I was bored with it after about 3 minutes. Rule of thumb on any pin is get what you like. Don’t listen to anyone else. You can use the top 100 on Pinside to narrow things down, but there are plenty on that list that I don’t like as well. So, get the pins that interest you and definitely don’t get a pin with a theme that doesn’t interest you just because someone else said it was good.
I agree with most all on the list, except for BBB. You should exclude that one and put in MM instead and your list would be perfect.
In 2018 - The best of the best - > > Elvira, now most overrated...?!
So agree on Elvira and the party Monsters. Scared Stiff on the other hand is under rated!
HOWDY PARTNER! Love the channel guys , love the topic , but White Water is a great game. One of my favs.
Oh man I forgot to say Orbit LOLno nothing on the playfield just tons of magnets tossing the ball around
Y'all are absolutely right about Party Monsters. However, I can't help but love it. I do enjoy it's simplicity.
I would have thrown Munsters on there somewhere, probably in place of Whitewater. Nice list though. Thanks guys!
Indiana Jones is my all time favorite. Love Adams Family, Creature from the black lagoon, Star Trek, attack from Mars, and of course the original KISS machine. I worked at an arcade when it came out.
I'm starting to really enjoy IJ
Creature and Monster Bash are climbing up on my list. Fun and good themes/music.
IJ, seriously? I never got into it because for some reason the ball only ever has two speeds: stupid fast and crazy slow. Which makes getting a proper "flow" going almost impossible. All IMHO, of course!
@@caddelworthit has many different modes, and they are fun. Nice music and dialogues from the films, very immersive. But the flow is awkward, those ramps are difficult to shoot, so most of the time the ball just bounce around in the bottom half playfiield.
Kiss is also another one. Drab gameplay, no thought on playfield physics ... everything so geometrically placed
Whitewater I'm kinda "meh" as to if it belongs on the list. I like it, but don't love it. Spirit I haven't ever played, so I can't comment. The rest? I 100% agree. Especially Adams Family. Good god. Yes, it was groundbreaking in what it did. Wonderful. But it's been surpassed so many times since then.
Love the video. No suprises...keep up the good work!
How dare you place White Water on that list! I do wish it was a little cheaper. Pretty much agree with all the others.
Totally agree. Great video. Thanks.
I know its a 20 plus difference but even lose the tv munsters is better than addams family pinball
Another overrated pinball is Bally KISS. Take away the artwork, and you have a basic fun pinball... nothing more.
I'll add that if you own a White Water, get on Pinside and talk to Matt's Basement Arcade. He sells the LH-6C ROMS which add an IMMENSE amount of light show, audio and bug fixes. It is like night and day. I will own another one day.
I was so ready for Cirqus to be on this list, I was formulating the slurs I was going to use in this reply. Now all I have left to say is this is a solid list. I hope it drives down the price on WW so I can buy one though.
Replace Batman 66 which is an excellent pin with the 3 most overrated WMS tables ever... Medieval Madness, Theatre of Magic, and Tales Of The Arabian nights!! Those 3 pins can get really boring if you are an average player ! Medieval might have some fantastic stuff, and many multiballs, but it is just a castle bshing fest!!
This or that. Zach' opinion or Gregs opinion! lol Great video as always. TheModCouple
MyYeloGremlin Whitewater is great so Zach wins! Hehe
There was a safe cracker at the 2022 pinball expo and it had the left flipper missing and played terribly
Update: I went to the 2023 expo and your safecracker plays wonderfully
Pure attempt to generate controversy with the Addams Family. Come on... Easily the greatest pinball game of all time. No close second, although second is totally up for grabs.
Medieval Madness or Twilight Zone are up there
It's not THAT great....
@@Hyperbolic_GCompared to a lot of 16-23 tables, maybe not.
But it’s just such a classic. So much fun to play.
@@John-mf1sz I don't know what 16-23 means. But it is a fun table no doubt
@@Hyperbolic_G I just meant more modern tables that have been developed between 2016-2023.
I enjoy the classic playfields a lot, but some of these more modern takes are starting to really sink their teeth into the nitty gritty of the game and make the rules very in depth.
Honestly would have bet some money that Medieval Madness would make the list. For that price to me it's one of the most overrated pins. Great episode as always guys!
Can't agree with you there. I had a MM for a few years. It's a great game... the trolls that pop up, the ability to stake multiballs, and the unique drawbridge/gate/castle toy.
This table Is about instant gratification, shoot the caste a few times and it explodes, everybody can have some fun with this table.
The Addams Family is an iconic pinball table, and the industry wouldn't be where it is without it. In fact, the industry has long since outgrown it. We all need to move on.
I’m glad that Stern has finally moved on from DMDs and relying on playfield gimmicks that have existed since the early 90s even if it took JJP kicking them in the rear to do it.
@@Logan912 I'm very new to the pinball scene, but I am not a big fan of the LCD displays. Dot matrix has a classic feel to it, even if it isn't as practical. Every frame shown is taylor made for it, making it unique. I associate it with pinball. To me, having an LCD screen with pinball is like having an arcade machine use an Xbox controller instead of a joystick. It might be more practical, but it doesn't have that "feel."
@@bubbythebear6891 that's good and fine. But pinball is more than just "classics" and it is not a "classic" game since there are still machines currently being produced (most fortunately). If you need "classic" in order to enjoy pinball, because that's what you associate the game with (no different than nostalgia, really...), then just stick to your old classics and enjoy yourself. But companies don't need to stick to their guns from 30 years ago just to appease a lame minority, and all for a reason like "LCD displays don't give off a 'feel' that i like. Either de-volve into DMDs again or i won't be dropping quarters into your machines!".
@@BootsORiley I see your point. I'm not at all wanting pinball manufacturers to return to DMDs, as that would disappoint more people than please. I'm just saying I prefer the look of DMDs. I really enjoy most modern pinball tables, about as consistently to the old ones.
I bought a regular Addams Family and converted it to Gold. If you don't like having Gold, just do a ROM swap back to the regular version.
White water !!! 😂 I love ww
Thank you for calling out TAF for what it is. I feel like every time I say that it's overrated I get attacked. I owned one for 6 months and never thought twice about trading it out. It's not a bad pinball, just extremely overrated and overpriced.
BM is FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Turntable is far from complex....Jeez...
Batman is a bare fielded loser.
I think an honorable mention would be Theater of magic, it’s fun at first but it gets kind of boring fast
Riz2336 thats a close one yeah but 25% more code would make it one of the best
My bucket list item is one day to get my first pinball from you. Great show !
that TAF has a beautiful playfield. i must say i love playing both BBB and TAF. agree on the others tho.
I thought Adams Family would be 1st. Whitewater was a surprise, and I don't enjoy Batman either. As a sidenote I guess I would put Deadpool and Metallica on there as I just don't understand the scoring enough i suppose. Even tho Metallica was my favorite band going into high school.
Batman 66 IS boring