The biggest thing that I took away from this video is that Genna's (apparent) struggle to find reasons to fault the price point for this game is an indication of how difficult critique can be. It's not as simple as saying that you like or don't like something. You often don't know why you have a problem with a product until you learn to recognise your own thought patterns and the intricacies of a games mechanics. Not to mention the fact that you need to understand how your opinion can differ from another persons and how you need to account for that. It's really interesting to see a professional critique argue the point with someone who doesn't do this for a living.
I think the story is that these are characters stuck in the underworld forced to fight each other for an eternity (hence why they never really die). When they "win" they get to be eaten by Nidhogg and thus are either reborn or allowed to actually die. So being eaten would be an actual reward because it brings an end to the constant suffering that characterized their life in the underworld.
Limited amount of levels, simplistic graphics... Well executed, beautifully made mechanics, tons of replay ability, a great multiplayer experience... I'd say $11 or £7 is definitely worth it.
And the comment about the simplistic graphics? I don't know what sort of smooth brain I was operating on 8 years ago, I think price should be tied to the gameplay and replayability, of which Nidhogg has plenty.
I think TB is right with his argument that Steam has made people expect dirt-cheap games. 10 dollars isn't much at all. I could see myself playing this game a lot more than a 60 dollar AAA.
NovaStalker How is 10 dollars for hours of entertainment a rip-off? How long will it be before games that cost more than a piece of shit 99 cent iPad game are "too expensive"?
NovaStalker I bought Tomb Raider for 35€ and 100% it in 15 hours I bought Terraria for 15€ and I'm closing in on 100 hours in that game. I'm satisfied with both of them but in terms of your "equivalent value" Tomb Raider was a piece of shit game. Much like towerfall I can see people getting really into this for the same reasons. Its fast paced, easy to play and hard to master. 10$ is equivalent to like a pizza or a burger menu, if that's to expensive then god help us cause mankinds priorities are way fucked up.
There doesn't NEED to be more than four bloody levels! Plus, compare 11 sodding bucks to 60. There is still enjoyment in Nidhogg, and a fair amount of replayability. One guy worked on this and he has done a bloody good job.
I think what it comes down to is TB values the mechanics, which isn’t always some easily identifiable feature one can see with their own eyes, but how a game feels. Meanwhile Genna is impressed by more tangible things such as levels and character selections.
Genna is being totally unfair with the price argument. Its not about stages, its about gameplay mechanics. The mechanics in this game are fantastic. Easy to learn hard to master. just because she isn't good at it or she doesn't like it that much, that doesn't mean its value is awful.
the stage's a little but not the way she was saying it. $5 would be to low a price, $10-$15 for this game seems fine, it has simple gameplay that can be learned and advanced pretty quickly, fun, interesting level plus local and online. it's made it's value (Grated with ht tb said bout it being delayed so much but still)
***** But why do stages matter that much? the combat system must be played to understand how fun and complex it is. hours of fun with in local or online multiplayer. totally worth 15$
***** Oh but I am serious and with friends this game could be hours of fun with friends. And what is it with you and stages? they're just a minor change of scenery for the most part sometimes with a small gimmick. Last of all, if its free, why make you go find it and download it. There used to be a thing called updates instead of dlc
The answer is to get both. To be honest, terraria qualifies more as a 60 dollar game than most AAA releases these days. I have gotten so many hours out of Terraria for so little money.
Man, I just love this stuff and recently subscribed for more of it. The interaction between the two of them is hilarious. TB being TB and Genna essentially being TB right back at him. :P Genna truly is TBs match, the way she parries his mockery as easily as she does his sword. Almost.
I personally like the premise of these research vids. They provide two sides to the argument, and for me that makes this more worthwhile than the wtf vids. Also, its great to hear TB and Genna bicker
If you're not the one that bought the game, you're always going to be critical of it if it's not your cup of tea. I heavily avoid telling people the prices of games I've paid for early on because if they're not completely enjoying the game in THAT instance when the price is revealed, they'll always be more likely to hate the game because they don't agree with the pricing. Genna was thoroughly on her way to enjoying the title until the price was revealed. After that her mind was set: she did not like the game. She hadn't yet given the title a chance to get good yet and that's where the beauty comes from Nidhogg; it's the game that lies beneath the surface of the novel entertainment, the split-second decisions you have to make, the huge tree of predictions you have to know to counter your opponent, it's all there, but you have to give it more than a fridging half hour to find it.
Ray Fanning I think that price should be put in for a full review rather than a first impressions sort of thing. Price put on first impressions can quickly sour the taste if you haven't yet tapped into the real joy of it.
The second half of the video is a physical metaphor for the verbal fencing TB and Genna were on about the price of the game. With a cool soundtrack too, :D
Ah, I got to say the mixture of TB and Genna is QUITE entertaining! :D I am glad you have come to this point where we are introduced a bit more to Co-operative content between you two. (Or in this case - VERSUUUUUUS!!!) Ps. I am probably late in saying this, but TB... you found yourself one fine lady! And you both really seem to mesh very well togheter. :)
Genna, Long Live the Queen is literally the same game every single time with one single "stage", and is 66% the price of Nidhogg with literally no replayability yet you like it more than this game?
One of the things I appreciate most about this? It allows that sort of "figuring out your thoughts" and polishing your arguments regarding a game. really awesome. thank you Genna for providing some devils advocacy for these games.
I love TB's content on his channel, but he has am amazing sense of humor that only seems to show when he's interacting with others. That's why I love the content here, and the multiple Terraria series.
I would disagree with Genna on the price point personally, and honestly, this game is going to be so cheap when the next sale comes around which is when most people are gonna buy it meanwhile, I love the game, and bought it for that 11 bucks
Having just watch TB's WTF Is of this game, it really should be noted that it has amasing single player bot ai. Most games I've ever played don't have great ai, but Nidhogg nails it! Really should be factored in.
Sadly the AI gets really predictable when you figure it out I only got an 1:30 from it before I figured it out, in fact I do feel like it should have been cheaper, because once you sink in a couple of hours it gets really shallow, because you know the mechanics and how it works, however multiplayer is excellent even more so with friends, but Nidhogg also feel REALLY unfinished, but this is my opinion, not fact so take it how you please, I feel like I shouldn't have bought it. :/
And by 1:30 I mean an hour and thirty minutes, but you could get games that have much more depth and gaming time for the amount of money Nidhogg is asking for.
It's a sad day when a person complains about "$11 for this game?! That's some greedy developers there!" and doesn't hear the hypocrisy. Because she doesn't want to pay a few extra dollars, that means the *developers* are greedy? If she doesn't think she'll get enough enjoyment out of it for the price point, that's fine. Some will sink days into this and some won't see the appeal. But to call this indie developer greedy because she's not willing to pay a bit more for his multi-year project is just weird.
This is a curious video. The first half is a lot of fun watching with them just enjoying the game; then the second half is an interesting discussion between TB and Genna about the game.
Tyler The Kid Monopoly is more likely to end an evening. It always ends with two guys controlling an equal side of the board, while the rest starts to get even more drunk, playing Smash Bros, Nidhogg or something.
I am dirt poor and I bought this game for 11 dollars and have played it for 10 hours and it was FUCKING WORTH IT. Probably still the 2nd best party game I have.
I'm actually quite impressed by the wealth of mechanics this one dude managed to put into this simple looking game. Striking at 3 levels, from angles, jumping, latching to walls and jumping off of them, parrying and throwing, jump kicks, crouching and rolling, unarmed combat and blocking, there is a whole lot to this game.
Fair point but that is not what I meant, for this kind of smaller games that feature local multiplayer an opinion of two people has more value, from entertainment and informative perspective. Your WTF of Nidhogg was good and informative but what really sold the game for me was when both of you expressed your opinions. And lets face it, you two are way too funny together to not pass one of your videos.
the difference is that the games mechanics is more complex in lol, I`m not saying I agree I am saying though that there is a difference between both games
John Henry That is propably becouze you looked at the graphics and not the gameplay.I am not a big fun of league for a complete different reason becouze i prefer Strategy games with sliders...And which many of them have the same maps again and again maps are the smallest part of the experience most of the times is a background.
***** Yeah, it was just a joke, of course i am not serious. I actually liked CoD 4, in mw2 the snipers was way to OP, now i don't play those games anymore. Moved over to counter strike. :D
***** The mechanics of most modern military shooters aren`t simplistic per say, but the campaign modes tend to play out like a slightly interactive movie.
Wilhelm Toimi im no CoD fanboy, by holy shit are you wrong. CoD and Nidhogg have the same principle: the same maps over and over, but with new opponents everytime. difference is that CoD is 'mainstream'...so piss off with your hipster attitude
If you play this game and have fun for at least 1.5 hours, you made a good deal. I see thousands of people that spend 15 bucks on watching Michael Bay explosions for 1.5 hours and find it "fun and entertaining", so why should be 11 bucks too much for a game that gives 1.5+ hours of entertainment?
Nopiw Thanks for your reply. I was actually talking about "popcorn cinema". Exactly those movies which you won't discuss with your friends and families, which you won't remember a week after watching them because it's just generic, brainless bullshit. I agree on the existence of movies that are really worthwhile, entertaining, mentally challenging and of course bring up interesting conversations with friends or colleges weeks after watching it. But it's not the general case today. The last really worthwhile movie that I watched was Cloud Atlas and I had nobody to talk about it except for my wife because I actually watched it with her. Nobody else bothered because the movie was "too complicated". It's my personal preference but I'd rather spend 11 bucks for a game that I can play for a couple of hours on a couple of days than for "Michael Bay: The brainless Movie Explosion VII".
I think this is worth every penny. As someone who has participated in Kendo, I get a similar feeling of challenge to my mental fortitude, reflexes, and creativity in this game. I get this raw feeling, that I am fighting against a person, not a character. It's not based off how well that person has learned a combo, or how much time that person put into building his character, It's about directly testing the mental facilities of my opponent.
I think this game could do with more weapons or abilities or something, the guy has a good base to work with though. Fun little game but I do agree it lacks replayability, with a bit of polish I think that could be fixed though.
More weapons, no, it would take away the whole point of the game. But it definitely needs more maps, even more considering that playing in a certain map could highly affect the way you play.
underlord2132 Not really, in a game like this, just the structure of the stage can affect the way it is played. And example would be at 6:04, where TB does a wall jump to get past Genna. And adding more things to the stages and making them more complex would be interesting, and could potentially benefit the game, giving it more variety, not just on the artistic side, but i the gameplay.
Price is fair in my opinion because its made by one guy and he did amazingly good job I take my hat off. Its is easy to complain when you have no idea what it takes to make game. Yeah he could put price lower and be fine but I want him to get a lot of money so he can keep making games and maybe get some help that is why price is high its to support and I think we all know what that means. In games like this you don't need many stages its fighting game simple as that and mechanic are amazing. This game is tons of fun when competing when friends and that is why I love it it does that job very well I needed something like this got bored with standard fighting games .
Baiko Ah damn, that'd be a problem. I don't mind it being less fun/engaging maybe because I play games w/ Skype on a lot anyway. But if the netcode is bad then that'd be a pretty huge problem for a game like this.
There's no way to say that this game won't get future DLC.. Maybe even free DLC 15$ to me is not that big of a deal... I've played 5$ games which weren't as satisfactory... This in comparison to other FAMOUS world acclaimed indies, that costs 15$.. Is not actually that bad.
A game like this would probably take a long time to develop for an individual. Fighting game mechanics are inherently complex, and timing mechanics properly would take a lot of playtesting, which is hard to do when you have a team of one and a budget of whatever you happen to have on you. If I had actual income (I actually am pulling in $0 atm), then I would probably buy it, but I'm on a seriously tight budget so I'm giving this one a pass.
"Long live the queen" that's nothing but text game is 9 euros, and "Nidhogg" is only 1,5 euros more... TB why didn't you tell her that! God damn it ;/ Also keep in mind ONE DUDE himself made this and all he ask is 10,5 euros, give the man some credit... not like it's a bad game. It's really fun, also you don't judge the game by graphics, that's really childish thinking (no offense!) Thought it always should be Mechanics & gameplay > Graphical environment.
Hey hey hey now! That 9 euros provided LOTS of viewers with hilarity and laughs. That was honestly the best money I ever spent making TB play a princess game. :) That aside, let me say that graphic styles are a choice but they also have an associated cost. All I was trying to get across is that the guy clearly didn't have to shell out a huge amt of money for artwork, therefore what is he trying to recoup exactly besides his own time? Thanks for voicing your side though, it is appreciated. :)
Genna Bain Well that's true but... if I put myself in his shoes, I bet he didn't have much money to start with :/ I think he was doing the game with the stuff he had, like... if he started to do a game right now I bet he would do a much more "graphical" product! :P
Blade Symphony costs as much as Nidhogg. Compare these two. Also Genna have a valid point in that you can get bored with this game in half an hour if mechanics won't suit you, and you have no way to know that before playing it for yourself. And it has nothing else going for it aside of mechanics.
2veki Also, I don't care about graphics in games as long as they are good, but to be honest, $15 for a game with simple mechanics is a little bit too much IMO. Maybe 8 would have been better
Deyerli A "SIMPLE" they do look "SIMPLE" only because of the graphics, let's see you do them? Also the game is really fun since you have online mode, I don't see how you people get bored so easily... no wonder CoD, Battlefields and all that garbage are making so much money. Just sad. With the given fact they cost 60$+ for GRAPHICS ONLY, everything else is taken from previous versions... good job on that, you could rather just watch few movies for that kind of money. THOSE games get boring after 15min max.
I'm inclined to side with Genna here. The very limited number of stages hinders this game, but the dev has the opportunity to fix that with patches. The real problem to me seems to be the incredibly simple mechanics, which I imagine could get old quickly. But even if they don't and this is a really good game, how great the game is is not the only factor at play when it comes to price. It also comes down to budget, and the incredibly simple mechanics combined with the even more simple art style is something that does not warrant an eleven dollar pricetag. Five dollars sure, 7.50 sure, but eleven just isn't worth it. Compare that with other similar games, like Electronic Super Joy. With simplistic graphics and gameplay, that game is 8 dollars. When people pay money for a game, they expect something that looks like it deserved that pricetag, and in here, yes graphics does matter a lot. Where people get this notion that the fun the game provides should directly equate to price is beyond me. Ride to Hell Retribution is $20 on Steam, a game like Super Hexagon is $3 on Steam, and actually went for sale for half a dollar and even a quarter during the winter sale. Even beyond that, how much fun people get out of a game is subjective, as is obvious in this video. With something that subjective, you can't justify a pricetag with that alone.
Agreed! And if you pay... I think 3 dollars more(?) Then you can buy Dust: An Elysian Tale instead - an INCREDIBLE peice of game! The artstyle, the music, the fighting in that game - god lord! So Nidhogg was made by one guy... Dust was also coded and all that... BY ONE GUY!!! (Check some videos of the difference!) And the art assets in Dust are, what I would say, "fullfiled". Meaning: to me, this game feels lazy in it's art style... I like the style here, and I get the Retro-spree we've had. But this doesn't catch me visualy being "fullfilling", compared to a game like Dust. And the same guy who made Dust spent, I think, a year on his own to make the PC port - and it's an excellent port! :) I am diffinently with Genna on this one! 15 bucks, full price, for this? NOPE! Especiallly when I could get Dust on a sale... AAAAND! After having bought it on a sale, to actually feel BAD for not paying full price for an excellent game! That's is the difference... Nidhogg: "Do I wanna pay 15 bucks for this game... no, yes, maybe?" Dust: "I bought this game for 7 bucks on a sale... Can I donate the rest via Paypal...?" XD
Dust: An Elysian Tail - I mention this game, because it have the same price, one guy designed and coded that game aswell... And THIS is how that game looks: Dust: An Elysian Tail - Launch Trailer My personaly reaction is just to yell at people "Go BUY THE GAME!" But, I'd rather say, I really recomend you try it! :) Dive kick - Kind of similar basic fighting mechanic, in that it skins the mechanic to the core, so it is simply the "twitch-skill" of the player. Divekick also have a more graphicaly pleasing looks that doesn't relly on a poorly made retro style... I've seen good retro/pixle looking games - and this is not one of them! Not to mention the different charachters in Divekick - there are variety! Don't remember how many levels there are in Divekick... But those are drawn. Here it is all pixalated. I am no programer, but to my limited experience with editing Terraria maps, I can EASILY make a completely new map in matter of minutes with MS PAINT!!! :P (Now, I haven't played either of Nidhogg or Divekick. These are my thoughts so far by observig these two games. Especialy since they seem fixed on comparing the two. :P ) Conclusion - no... Not worth the price! I think the best description here is how TB dislike Samurai Gunn, but liking this. Both simplistic fighting games for the same price. Not saying either is better then the other. (Apart from SG not having online function - that is just ridiculous!)
That gives it a certain charm for me, but its not animated like an atari game, this game's animation is seriously amazing that most games of this style mess up.
"Aha! Punched you in the face!"
-Totalbiscuit adressing his wife
I was also under the preconception that every Englishman had a fencing instructor in addition to a spell and sorcery instructor.
Robert Williams
Also a potions master.
Paul Manly With high marks in the Dark Arts.
Robert Williams You can't forget the Dedicated 5 weeks Tea drinking or serving should you choose the life of a butler.
Variousnumber Yes, mustn't forget proper etiquette
Robert Williams Proper etiquette should be a standard all over the world.
Watching this is so sad now. :(
He will be missed.
The biggest thing that I took away from this video is that Genna's (apparent) struggle to find reasons to fault the price point for this game is an indication of how difficult critique can be. It's not as simple as saying that you like or don't like something. You often don't know why you have a problem with a product until you learn to recognise your own thought patterns and the intricacies of a games mechanics. Not to mention the fact that you need to understand how your opinion can differ from another persons and how you need to account for that.
It's really interesting to see a professional critique argue the point with someone who doesn't do this for a living.
I think the story is that these are characters stuck in the underworld forced to fight each other for an eternity (hence why they never really die). When they "win" they get to be eaten by Nidhogg and thus are either reborn or allowed to actually die. So being eaten would be an actual reward because it brings an end to the constant suffering that characterized their life in the underworld.
Limited amount of levels, simplistic graphics... Well executed, beautifully made mechanics, tons of replay ability, a great multiplayer experience... I'd say $11 or £7 is definitely worth it.
@NoniplierXG after 8 years of contemplating my comment, and playing nidhogg frequently, I can say that I agree with you totally.
And the comment about the simplistic graphics? I don't know what sort of smooth brain I was operating on 8 years ago, I think price should be tied to the gameplay and replayability, of which Nidhogg has plenty.
I think TB is right with his argument that Steam has made people expect dirt-cheap games. 10 dollars isn't much at all. I could see myself playing this game a lot more than a 60 dollar AAA.
that's your problem. you can get ripped off all you like but the rest of us want actual equivalent value.
NovaStalker
How is 10 dollars for hours of entertainment a rip-off? How long will it be before games that cost more than a piece of shit 99 cent iPad game are "too expensive"?
HIRVIism Price point is just a subjective matter anyway. I personally agree with Genna's point that 10 or less dollars would have been better
Deyerli A
Of course lower price is better for the consumer. But you gotta think about the dude who made the game. Maybe he wants some money too?
NovaStalker
I bought Tomb Raider for 35€ and 100% it in 15 hours
I bought Terraria for 15€ and I'm closing in on 100 hours in that game.
I'm satisfied with both of them but in terms of your "equivalent value" Tomb Raider was a piece of shit game. Much like towerfall I can see people getting really into this for the same reasons. Its fast paced, easy to play and hard to master. 10$ is equivalent to like a pizza or a burger menu, if that's to expensive then god help us cause mankinds priorities are way fucked up.
"see, know youve gotta punch me!"
*kicks TB in the face*
*"NO!!"*
10/10
"Welcome to Toby Turner's entire library." I cried.
There doesn't NEED to be more than four bloody levels! Plus, compare 11 sodding bucks to 60. There is still enjoyment in Nidhogg, and a fair amount of replayability. One guy worked on this and he has done a bloody good job.
Genna: "What kind of dumb game is this?" ...
Just came from watching the "Long live the Queen" videos... What, I don't even, what?!
me too!
I think what it comes down to is TB values the mechanics, which isn’t always some easily identifiable feature one can see with their own eyes, but how a game feels. Meanwhile Genna is impressed by more tangible things such as levels and character selections.
Genna is being totally unfair with the price argument. Its not about stages, its about gameplay mechanics. The mechanics in this game are fantastic. Easy to learn hard to master. just because she isn't good at it or she doesn't like it that much, that doesn't mean its value is awful.
the stage's a little but not the way she was saying it. $5 would be to low a price, $10-$15 for this game seems fine, it has simple gameplay that can be learned and advanced pretty quickly, fun, interesting level plus local and online. it's made it's value (Grated with ht tb said bout it being delayed so much but still)
Aaron mccarrick Couldn't agree more
***** But why do stages matter that much? the combat system must be played to understand how fun and complex it is. hours of fun with in local or online multiplayer. totally worth 15$
***** Oh but I am serious and with friends this game could be hours of fun with friends. And what is it with you and stages? they're just a minor change of scenery for the most part sometimes with a small gimmick.
Last of all, if its free, why make you go find it and download it. There used to be a thing called updates instead of dlc
Diego Bunuel ANYTHING can be hours of fun if you have friends around. That does not make it fun in and of itself.
"I don't think this is really commentary, it's just us reacting to a bunch of stuff
Welcome to Toby Turner's entire library" *genius*
This debate is another great example of how value is subjective.
we need more of these videos, the TB and genna play series is wonderful to hear you both having so much fun.
I mean Terarria is the same price. Which game would you rather get? She has a point.
The answer is to get both. To be honest, terraria qualifies more as a 60 dollar game than most AAA releases these days. I have gotten so many hours out of Terraria for so little money.
Man, I just love this stuff and recently subscribed for more of it.
The interaction between the two of them is hilarious. TB being TB and Genna essentially being TB right back at him. :P Genna truly is TBs match, the way she parries his mockery as easily as she does his sword. Almost.
I personally like the premise of these research vids. They provide two sides to the argument, and for me that makes this more worthwhile than the wtf vids. Also, its great to hear TB and Genna bicker
If you're not the one that bought the game, you're always going to be critical of it if it's not your cup of tea. I heavily avoid telling people the prices of games I've paid for early on because if they're not completely enjoying the game in THAT instance when the price is revealed, they'll always be more likely to hate the game because they don't agree with the pricing. Genna was thoroughly on her way to enjoying the title until the price was revealed. After that her mind was set: she did not like the game. She hadn't yet given the title a chance to get good yet and that's where the beauty comes from Nidhogg; it's the game that lies beneath the surface of the novel entertainment, the split-second decisions you have to make, the huge tree of predictions you have to know to counter your opponent, it's all there, but you have to give it more than a fridging half hour to find it.
But you still should put in the price. That's important to a decision, as people should know if the price is a good deal for the quality.
Ray Fanning I think that price should be put in for a full review rather than a first impressions sort of thing. Price put on first impressions can quickly sour the taste if you haven't yet tapped into the real joy of it.
True true.
The second half of the video is a physical metaphor for the verbal fencing TB and Genna were on about the price of the game. With a cool soundtrack too, :D
This is the Soundcloud page of the dude who made the music ;)
soundcloud.com/daedelus
Tintin Onacid I wasn't looking for it but thanks for the link, bud!
"welcome to toby turner's entire library". HA!
It's true though. That's why it's funny.
i haven't seen a comment about the princess bride quote,
I am afraid I lied, i'm not left handed
INCONCEIVABLE!
"I dont think this is commentary".
"Well welcome to Toby Turners entire library.."
Shots Fired.
Ah, I got to say the mixture of TB and Genna is QUITE entertaining! :D
I am glad you have come to this point where we are introduced a bit more to Co-operative content between you two.
(Or in this case - VERSUUUUUUS!!!)
Ps.
I am probably late in saying this, but TB... you found yourself one fine lady!
And you both really seem to mesh very well togheter. :)
"Welcome to Toby Turner's entire library"
#shotsfired
Holy shit Genna is the best player who has no idea what she's doing that I've ever seen.
Or biscuit is the worst player that does know what he is doing.
6:20, and thats how babies are made.
Genna, Long Live the Queen is literally the same game every single time with one single "stage", and is 66% the price of Nidhogg with literally no replayability yet you like it more than this game?
One of the things I appreciate most about this? It allows that sort of "figuring out your thoughts" and polishing your arguments regarding a game. really awesome. thank you Genna for providing some devils advocacy for these games.
Genna:It could get old in 15 min.....
*passes the **15:00** mark*
flawless logic
15:30 This, ladies and gents, is cloud gaming. AHA!
AHA! THIS VIDEO WAS ENTERTANING!
I love TB's content on his channel, but he has am amazing sense of humor that only seems to show when he's interacting with others. That's why I love the content here, and the multiple Terraria series.
I would disagree with Genna on the price point
personally, and honestly, this game is going to be so cheap when the next sale comes around which is when most people are gonna buy it
meanwhile, I love the game, and bought it for that 11 bucks
I bet that giant worm and the yeti from Ski Free are bros.
Ah, the Princess Bride reference.
Inconceivable!
I do not think it means what you think it means.
Genna Bain i love yellow
AHA
Having just watch TB's WTF Is of this game, it really should be noted that it has amasing single player bot ai. Most games I've ever played don't have great ai, but Nidhogg nails it! Really should be factored in.
Sadly the AI gets really predictable when you figure it out I only got an 1:30 from it before I figured it out, in fact I do feel like it should have been cheaper, because once you sink in a couple of hours it gets really shallow, because you know the mechanics and how it works, however multiplayer is excellent even more so with friends, but Nidhogg also feel REALLY unfinished, but this is my opinion, not fact so take it how you please, I feel like I shouldn't have bought it. :/
And by 1:30 I mean an hour and thirty minutes, but you could get games that have much more depth and gaming time for the amount of money Nidhogg is asking for.
It's a sad day when a person complains about "$11 for this game?! That's some greedy developers there!" and doesn't hear the hypocrisy.
Because she doesn't want to pay a few extra dollars, that means the *developers* are greedy? If she doesn't think she'll get enough enjoyment out of it for the price point, that's fine. Some will sink days into this and some won't see the appeal. But to call this indie developer greedy because she's not willing to pay a bit more for his multi-year project is just weird.
It's actually 15 dollars, it's 12 till January 20th.
They said that in the video
hyperk2 Well, it was 50 (or was it 60?) when it came out.
Genna, now I'm wondering what you think about the pricing of minecraft.
This is a curious video. The first half is a lot of fun watching with them just enjoying the game; then the second half is an interesting discussion between TB and Genna about the game.
Now you are getting the hang of it, sword of. Teehee
"sword of"
omg that pun's killing me
***** What is this? Reddit?
You can smell the decaying relationship past 20 minutes xD
Because arguing = dying relationship?
DiddntFindANameLol Like Mario Kart, after a game of Nidhogg, relationships are destroyed
***** Dont forget monopoly
Tyler The Kid Monopoly is more likely to end an evening. It always ends with two guys controlling an equal side of the board, while the rest starts to get even more drunk, playing Smash Bros, Nidhogg or something.
They're ribbing each other, if anything it's the sign of a healthy relationship.
I am dirt poor and I bought this game for 11 dollars and have played it for 10 hours and it was FUCKING WORTH IT. Probably still the 2nd best party game I have.
I'm actually quite impressed by the wealth of mechanics this one dude managed to put into this simple looking game. Striking at 3 levels, from angles, jumping, latching to walls and jumping off of them, parrying and throwing, jump kicks, crouching and rolling, unarmed combat and blocking, there is a whole lot to this game.
These are better than normal WTF :D
Portion of audience prefers screechy shitty Lets Plays. I wish I could say I was surprised
Fair point but that is not what I meant, for this kind of smaller games that feature local multiplayer an opinion of two people has more value, from entertainment and informative perspective.
Your WTF of Nidhogg was good and informative but what really sold the game for me was when both of you expressed your opinions.
And lets face it, you two are way too funny together to not pass one of your videos.
Or maybe they prefer the banter between you and Genna?
"C'mon and Slam! And Welcome to the jam!"
Oh you, TB.
I believe you run slightly faster while disarmed, meaning if your oponent removes your weapon but fails to kill you you can outrun them
Genna's "Nya!" at 10:45 is amazing. I could not stop laughing. xD
League of legend has barely any maps and is one of the most popular games in the world. The number of stages isnt the most important factor
the difference is that the games mechanics is more complex in lol, I`m not saying I agree I am saying though that there is a difference between both games
Of course, they are very different games, just saying that for a game like this, the number of stages isnt necessarily the most important thing
ForShizzleize well yeah both games are more dependent on the varying ways they can be played by people
DOTA is honestly better.
John Henry
That is propably becouze you looked at the graphics and not the gameplay.I am not a big fun of league for a complete different reason becouze i prefer Strategy games with sliders...And which many of them have the same maps again and again maps are the smallest part of the experience most of the times is a background.
"Welcome to Toby Turner's entire library" i just LOLLED at that one XD
There are games waaaaaaaaay more simplistic in terms of mechanics that are $60.
Cod.
***** Yeah, it was just a joke, of course i am not serious. I actually liked CoD 4, in mw2 the snipers was way to OP, now i don't play those games anymore. Moved over to counter strike. :D
***** The mechanics of most modern military shooters aren`t simplistic per say, but the campaign modes tend to play out like a slightly interactive movie.
Kaelen O'Hea haha, yeah :P
Wilhelm Toimi im no CoD fanboy, by holy shit are you wrong. CoD and Nidhogg have the same principle: the same maps over and over, but with new opponents everytime. difference is that CoD is 'mainstream'...so piss off with your hipster attitude
Genna.. your laugh is wonderful.
If you play this game and have fun for at least 1.5 hours, you made a good deal. I see thousands of people that spend 15 bucks on watching Michael Bay explosions for 1.5 hours and find it "fun and entertaining", so why should be 11 bucks too much for a game that gives 1.5+ hours of entertainment?
Nopiw Thanks for your reply. I was actually talking about "popcorn cinema". Exactly those movies which you won't discuss with your friends and families, which you won't remember a week after watching them because it's just generic, brainless bullshit.
I agree on the existence of movies that are really worthwhile, entertaining, mentally challenging and of course bring up interesting conversations with friends or colleges weeks after watching it. But it's not the general case today. The last really worthwhile movie that I watched was Cloud Atlas and I had nobody to talk about it except for my wife because I actually watched it with her. Nobody else bothered because the movie was "too complicated".
It's my personal preference but I'd rather spend 11 bucks for a game that I can play for a couple of hours on a couple of days than for "Michael Bay: The brainless Movie Explosion VII".
Alright then Moviebob...
Metatr0n
11 bucks for 1.5 hours is insanely expensive. I generally only buy products if they can guarantee me 1 hour of enjoyment per dollar spent.
Well, damn am I glad you post these. From the two seconds every minute that I saw, it seemed good.
LOL, the new thumbnail is fantastic xD
Love you guys! This obviously is a better demonstration of the fun to be had than the WTF.. "i've got nails!" cracked me up :)
3:40 am.. *Sleep is for the weak!*
no sleep is for the insane
TheBronf THEN SLEEP WE SHALL NOT
I think this is worth every penny. As someone who has participated in Kendo, I get a similar feeling of challenge to my mental fortitude, reflexes, and creativity in this game. I get this raw feeling, that I am fighting against a person, not a character. It's not based off how well that person has learned a combo, or how much time that person put into building his character, It's about directly testing the mental facilities of my opponent.
Genna knows jack shit about game development.
These WTF Research streams are amazingly fun to watch! I love to hear opinions from both parties!
"Research"
In my headcanon Nidhogg is a game telling the story of two immortals fighting for the right to gain the bliss of final death in the jaws of the wyrm.
The Nidhogg...oh the great memories of Age of Mythology...
Glad to know that I'm not the only one that played that game. That thing was my childhood.
This was so enjoyable in so many ways
this game just needs more stuff in the stages,cause except some platforms they have almost nothing in them
At first I wondered why these videos were on Genna's channel, but then I realized that these are essentially let's plays and then it made sense :3
*Sorry, English is my second language"
I really want to like this game,but the stroboscopic lights makes me sick ):
I like how the game reflected the argument!
Don't see why TB is so pro-Nidhogg. Has he look at the options menu? FOV slider is non-existent.
I think this game could do with more weapons or abilities or something, the guy has a good base to work with though. Fun little game but I do agree it lacks replayability, with a bit of polish I think that could be fixed though.
More weapons, no, it would take away the whole point of the game. But it definitely needs more maps, even more considering that playing in a certain map could highly affect the way you play.
iwannabeanarwhal
The maps will need to have some sort of gimmick like the cloud one then.
underlord2132 Not really, in a game like this, just the structure of the stage can affect the way it is played. And example would be at 6:04, where TB does a wall jump to get past Genna. And adding more things to the stages and making them more complex would be interesting, and could potentially benefit the game, giving it more variety, not just on the artistic side, but i the gameplay.
iwannabeanarwhal Added complexity within the maps is what I mean with gimmicks. Something to change the tactics for the stage.
I enjoyed watching this. Both of you are quite good at satire.
TB certainly has the "Ah-ha!" down though
Price is fair in my opinion because its made by one guy and he did amazingly good job I take my hat off. Its is easy to complain when you have no idea what it takes to make game. Yeah he could put price lower and be fine but I want him to get a lot of money so he can keep making games and maybe get some help that is why price is high its to support and I think we all know what that means. In games like this you don't need many stages its fighting game simple as that and mechanic are amazing.
This game is tons of fun when competing when friends and that is why I love it it does that job very well I needed something like this got bored with standard fighting games .
If I had a friend to play this locally with, I'd easily pay what it costs, I mean, it costs the same a cheap pizza.
It has online multiplayer too!
Hademar Peole are saying the net code is pretty bad, and I don't think it would be as fun, either.
Baiko Ah damn, that'd be a problem. I don't mind it being less fun/engaging maybe because I play games w/ Skype on a lot anyway. But if the netcode is bad then that'd be a pretty huge problem for a game like this.
Genna hates fun.
i like the fact they're both doing gameplay together.
There's no way to say that this game won't get future DLC.. Maybe even free DLC
15$ to me is not that big of a deal... I've played 5$ games which weren't as satisfactory... This in comparison to other FAMOUS world acclaimed indies, that costs 15$.. Is not actually that bad.
OH MY GOSH.
HAHAH!!!! The Cover pic for this is so ADORABLE!
AHA! AHA! AHA!
I wouldnt pay 15 dollars for divekick. it's the same reason.
Aww... Genna has such a cute and contagious laugh. :)
lmao, turns into a real death battle when they starting debating game prices
im only 5 minutes in and this is great. TB and genna are having so much fun playing it.
A game like this would probably take a long time to develop for an individual. Fighting game mechanics are inherently complex, and timing mechanics properly would take a lot of playtesting, which is hard to do when you have a team of one and a budget of whatever you happen to have on you.
If I had actual income (I actually am pulling in $0 atm), then I would probably buy it, but I'm on a seriously tight budget so I'm giving this one a pass.
Genna's laughter/giggling is adorable! ^______^
"Long live the queen" that's nothing but text game is 9 euros, and "Nidhogg" is only 1,5 euros more... TB why didn't you tell her that! God damn it ;/
Also keep in mind ONE DUDE himself made this and all he ask is 10,5 euros, give the man some credit... not like it's a bad game. It's really fun, also you don't judge the game by graphics, that's really childish thinking (no offense!) Thought it always should be Mechanics & gameplay > Graphical environment.
Hey hey hey now! That 9 euros provided LOTS of viewers with hilarity and laughs. That was honestly the best money I ever spent making TB play a princess game. :) That aside, let me say that graphic styles are a choice but they also have an associated cost. All I was trying to get across is that the guy clearly didn't have to shell out a huge amt of money for artwork, therefore what is he trying to recoup exactly besides his own time? Thanks for voicing your side though, it is appreciated. :)
Genna Bain Well that's true but... if I put myself in his shoes, I bet he didn't have much money to start with :/ I think he was doing the game with the stuff he had, like... if he started to do a game right now I bet he would do a much more "graphical" product! :P
Blade Symphony costs as much as Nidhogg. Compare these two. Also Genna have a valid point in that you can get bored with this game in half an hour if mechanics won't suit you, and you have no way to know that before playing it for yourself. And it has nothing else going for it aside of mechanics.
2veki Also, I don't care about graphics in games as long as they are good, but to be honest, $15 for a game with simple mechanics is a little bit too much IMO. Maybe 8 would have been better
Deyerli A "SIMPLE" they do look "SIMPLE" only because of the graphics, let's see you do them? Also the game is really fun since you have online mode, I don't see how you people get bored so easily... no wonder CoD, Battlefields and all that garbage are making so much money. Just sad. With the given fact they cost 60$+ for GRAPHICS ONLY, everything else is taken from previous versions... good job on that, you could rather just watch few movies for that kind of money. THOSE games get boring after 15min max.
Apparently that ground-kill move on a downed opponent is in fact ripping his heart out. Neck snap ok, heart rip, squick.
YOU NEED TO GIFF SACRIFICE TO THE NIDHOGG.
What about a .JPEG sacrifice ?
Edit How 'bout an .AVI?
13:15 "Through the glass!" "Throw the thing!" "Stab the wife!"
I'm inclined to side with Genna here. The very limited number of stages hinders this game, but the dev has the opportunity to fix that with patches. The real problem to me seems to be the incredibly simple mechanics, which I imagine could get old quickly. But even if they don't and this is a really good game, how great the game is is not the only factor at play when it comes to price. It also comes down to budget, and the incredibly simple mechanics combined with the even more simple art style is something that does not warrant an eleven dollar pricetag. Five dollars sure, 7.50 sure, but eleven just isn't worth it.
Compare that with other similar games, like Electronic Super Joy. With simplistic graphics and gameplay, that game is 8 dollars. When people pay money for a game, they expect something that looks like it deserved that pricetag, and in here, yes graphics does matter a lot.
Where people get this notion that the fun the game provides should directly equate to price is beyond me. Ride to Hell Retribution is $20 on Steam, a game like Super Hexagon is $3 on Steam, and actually went for sale for half a dollar and even a quarter during the winter sale. Even beyond that, how much fun people get out of a game is subjective, as is obvious in this video. With something that subjective, you can't justify a pricetag with that alone.
Agreed!
And if you pay... I think 3 dollars more(?) Then you can buy Dust: An Elysian Tale instead - an INCREDIBLE peice of game!
The artstyle, the music, the fighting in that game - god lord!
So Nidhogg was made by one guy...
Dust was also coded and all that... BY ONE GUY!!! (Check some videos of the difference!)
And the art assets in Dust are, what I would say, "fullfiled".
Meaning: to me, this game feels lazy in it's art style...
I like the style here, and I get the Retro-spree we've had. But this doesn't catch me visualy being "fullfilling", compared to a game like Dust.
And the same guy who made Dust spent, I think, a year on his own to make the PC port - and it's an excellent port! :)
I am diffinently with Genna on this one!
15 bucks, full price, for this? NOPE!
Especiallly when I could get Dust on a sale... AAAAND! After having bought it on a sale, to actually feel BAD for not paying full price for an excellent game!
That's is the difference...
Nidhogg: "Do I wanna pay 15 bucks for this game... no, yes, maybe?"
Dust: "I bought this game for 7 bucks on a sale... Can I donate the rest via Paypal...?" XD
You guys should do more of this
Dust: An Elysian Tail - I mention this game, because it have the same price, one guy designed and coded that game aswell...
And THIS is how that game looks: Dust: An Elysian Tail - Launch Trailer
My personaly reaction is just to yell at people "Go BUY THE GAME!"
But, I'd rather say, I really recomend you try it! :)
Dive kick - Kind of similar basic fighting mechanic, in that it skins the mechanic to the core, so it is simply the "twitch-skill" of the player.
Divekick also have a more graphicaly pleasing looks that doesn't relly on a poorly made retro style... I've seen good retro/pixle looking games - and this is not one of them!
Not to mention the different charachters in Divekick - there are variety!
Don't remember how many levels there are in Divekick... But those are drawn.
Here it is all pixalated. I am no programer, but to my limited experience with editing Terraria maps, I can EASILY make a completely new map in matter of minutes with MS PAINT!!! :P
(Now, I haven't played either of Nidhogg or Divekick. These are my thoughts so far by observig these two games. Especialy since they seem fixed on comparing the two. :P )
Conclusion - no... Not worth the price!
I think the best description here is how TB dislike Samurai Gunn, but liking this.
Both simplistic fighting games for the same price.
Not saying either is better then the other. (Apart from SG not having online function - that is just ridiculous!)
I loved dust
I really think if they added more stages I would buy this game full price, like an additional 4 stages would be enough for me.
KXILite I agree. Also, if the graphics were a bit better. This seriously looks like an Atari game.
That gives it a certain charm for me, but its not animated like an atari game, this game's animation is seriously amazing that most games of this style mess up.
i tried it, but it is too plain for me, and gets real booring after a while
this is so funny to watch :P ... and genna's voice is amazing
5:35
Shots fired :P
"Bint" is a word I don't hear often enough
Im slightly annoyed by genna in this video :\
If you take the "aHA!" exclamation and loop it three or four times, it sounds like Pennywise the Clown.
Marriage ending game!
Who did the music for this game, Cyriak? Awesome none the less.