You just saved my life, thanks Dave. One of the most useful tips for me as I normally layer analog an digital bases. Midi track sending to both and believe it or not I will always do this by ear and of course the result was never perfect (ie I would have to align the transients). You made my workflow a lot better with this simple trick, I use Logic and Ableton though, but the calculator and getting the numbers right is what I was missing. Really, thanks mixbus Dave.
I used to calculate latency like this a long time ago then a few years ago Cubase automated the process and it's really convenient and always spot on. I did not know that ProTools still doesn't have a latency compensation feature for external FX.
@@mixbustv That's a great point David about the differences between outboard digital units. I'm glad I saw your comment on that here. Too bad that didn't get mentioned in the video though. But it's all good. :)
Hey dude, Thank you for this!!! I just got into the 500 series stuff and this is a game changer. I wish it was easier to do, but this is the way. Pro Tools needs to get their shit together.
Cussing & swearing at the sound of my snare all night. Realize now I never sync’d the 48khz session gear from 44.1. This is definitely my issue. Thank you Sir. You just saved me a 2day headache. #Respect
Good shit. I'm still not yet kitted out to go ADDA, but as I said in comment to another video you made on the subject of hardware processing utside the DAW, I want to have the process basic covered in advance. keep 'em coming
David, this is a FANTASTIC video !! Very detailed and informative! I use (2) Apollo 16 units cascaded. Also plenty of outboard gear. So far so good !! Thanks again !!
Of course, Pro Tools will automatically compensate the round trip delay to and from your interface -and any inserted 'analog' outboard hardware. (Analog processors will not induce any latency to the system) Digital outboard processors on the other hand (E.G. digital reverbs, delays, multi FX) will induce additional delay due to their own AD/DA convertors and processing delay, this is where you'll have to do a little arithmetic as PT has no way of knowing (lacking a 'ping' function) what that additional latency is. Most manufacturers will include information about processing/conversion delay times at various sample rates in the documentation of the device.
@@mixbustv Hmm, I may have to go back and re-do my homework then. I thought Automatic Delay Compensation would take care of this same as it does for any other (plugin) insert. (I don't usually have to deal with it since my only hardware inserts are on the 2 bus.) Carry on David!
Thnx for tutorial! it helps a lot! i was dealing with 3 sample at 88,2 khz session and it was pain in the ass because original Avid manual for HD Native Thunderbold has errors. Thank You again!
@@mixbustv Actually, it is very quick and versatile with no spending time calculating samples, all taken care of. Same applies in Cakewalk, auto-calculate and like in Pro-Tools, it's native and not a plugin. BTW, great explanation video for Pro-Tools users.
Er ma gerd! I’ve been trying to figure out how to calculate this for the delay going through my Drawmer 1978, but the Cubase ping test kept saying 0.01ms yet I was still hearing comb filter phasing. Now I can work it out!!! Thank you so much!!! 🙏🏽⭐️👌🏾🤙🏾
Thanks David. Great timing. Just getting ready to learn how to do this on Logic and Reaper. I have a ton of hardware to patch in that's been too lonely, for way too long.
Thanks for the tutorial. Just installed my first set of hardware for mixing and mastering. My sample distance from my Apollo x8p was 510 samples lol! Way more samples than yours in the video lol! But it compensated perfectly. I gotta do my Motu 828es ADAT next. Thanks again for the helpful video!
I was just trying to figure out if I needed to do what you were doing with the delay compensation. And just realized I got lucky I bought 300$ cheap digi 192 and thunderbolt box, and didnt have to deal with it.NO way and hell I would have gave them 10000$ for that back then. IT must be why people like joe barressi and other top studios still use them old 192 for that automatic delay compensation for hardware?
I tried it out but was surprised that upon recording, my sound waves were not delayed but the original was shown early. Even though I have never changed the parameter "H / W Insert Delay". It is at 0.00. Why is that? Protools Ultimate 2020 + HD Native Card.
Another helpful video David, great stuff. How do you change the length on the Transport to read samples? mine displays Bars/Beats? Cant seem to find the transport prefs to change it
There's a little white arrow next to the counter value in the main transport section which leads to a drop down menu to choose what increments you want to see.
Theoretical setup will it work? Interface with multiple io, hardware synths, hardware samplers, and outboard processors. The music i create is all done OTB with hardware sequencers, synths etc, what i would like to be able to do is mix on the fly with all my outboard gear whilst im creating a track, meaning before anything would be recorded to a computer. For example using an outboard reverb for all my drums before on similar to like you would with a aux send on a mixer. Grouping drums/synths sending them out to outboard eqs, Using a comp on the masterbus etc. Basically what im saying i would like to be able to utilize all my outboard gear before anything would be recorded and commited to the computer? In otherwords having an analog mixer workflow with an interface. Is this type of workflow possible with just a interface or would i run into all sorts latency issues from the roundtrip to outboard gear? I would like to avoid having a mixer if i can. Suggestions on similar types of workflow with a setup like this? Cheers!
Of course is possible, you need as many physical I/O as you plan on having running at once, as many eq and comp as you plan on using and simply go from your instruments to the inputs where then all the outboard is connected then in PT. You said you want to process before anything gets recorded in the computer so you have zero roundtrip. That would be my setup where I mix with it, not record. You'd save quite some money tho it you had even a small mixer cause that setup is expensive
@@mixbustv Thanks man, i appreciate you taking the time to help, been workin in the analog realm since i started some years back, now just trying to figure out the signal path working in a daw environment. I actually have a 6 channel vintage mixer that sounds really good its the akai mg614, but no direct outs on it and i would love to be able to multitrack out to daw to finally start to release som music! Gonna keep this mixer more like a processor tho, cause the preamps and eq on that thing is real good for the stuff i do. I still have one question i wanna be clear about. Lets say i have drums on input 1-3 of a interface then i would create a stereo subgroup of them in the daw, then send it out to a stereo processor, so even a situation like this wouldnt cause any roundtrip latency? Im probably overthinking this stuff anyways but i like to stay concise! Probably gonna go with the scarlett 1820 interface plus a behringer ada8200, io should be enough for what i do plus it wouldnt break the bank! The big six would probably also be nice but then again that would cost 5 times more 😅 Man i kept on rambling 😅, thanks again i appreciate what you do, definately top channels on mixing in youtube! Cheers!
Hi, i have the delay compensation enabled for the other plugins, and when do the recording after the trip to the interface as you said, came back before my original track not after, how can i change the sample delay to came after and not before so i can do the h/w insert modification, pro tools is delaying each insert in 1760 samples, how can i change it to be less, and only with the analog inserts? Thanks
I recently upgraded from avid hardware to an orion 32+. I never had to worry about any of this until now. Thanks David for this tutorial and this did tighten up my latency to outboard gear when I run out from single tracks or buses but I am still having bad phasing problems to outboard gear when running parallel compression. The parallel compression works fine with a plugin . I have the H/W delay 100% accurate. Any ideas of what would cause this?
I had an older Orion USB and would find the H/W latency could change. It wasn't always the same on each bootup. Might have been USB issues, I'm not sure.
@@mixbustv Why are leaving the SSL? The thing about using two separate interface and ADDA is that you hear the interface driver in the DAW correct? An interface turns 1's and 0's into audio so at some point you will need it for conversion for all the inputs coming from your ADDA to convert that audio into your computer correct? Even a digital signal needs to be converted into 1s and 0s via an interface. My question is why use so much high end gear just to put that thru a Motu?
Hi David. As you are hybrid, as you load in more plugins does the latency start to increase? Or is that why you got the new PC with Thunder? I went and watched the 2016 version of this vid too. Thank you for making it and posting it.
My connection is not firewire, is Thunderbolt, which of course does help with latency (altho if you only mix and master like I do is pretty irrelevant), but you're confusing this latency showed in the video with the latency you get when recording, and with plugin latency, they're 3 different things. The first never changes, and it depends on your computer and drivers, the 3rd is how many plugins (that do have latency, not all do) you open on a single track, the track with the most latency + the mixbus latency must be below the maximum your DAW auto compensates, hardware doesn't have latency in itself, the roundtrip (showed in this video) is fixed and the computer automatically compensate for it adding it to the insert when you insert a hw in the chain.
I’m curious if I should be doing this. I have my converters going into my mixer. And I use my mixer as a monitor controller. When I record thru the mixer to use the compressor, I have it ran through the main outs (1/2) and return on 1/2 (AD/DA). For that return I usually have a vocal or 2 track. And I do this in stems. Am I inherently creating delay? I also sent an email. Thank you for your videos.
Hi David!! Question: let's say I only work at 48k. Would this be "set and forget" or it changes from session to session, depending on number of inserts etc? Thank you!
ok I remade the templaate. I did everything the same the problem is when I insert my hardware wa293 pre amp and eq it doesn't get any signal audio levels in pro tools . if I take it off I see signal. anybody know why that's happening. when I look at my outfit level on the hardware its picking up the click track but nothing is recorded in pro tools when I'm trying to get that second audio click track with the insert on
Hi David, Thanks for making this video... I recently got an API2500 and wanted to mix into it. I'm curious what version of Protools you're running in this video because my Protools version (which is a couple years older than this video) Protools 2018.4 (running on a MacPro) seems to automatically compensate (with "Delay Compensation" turned ON in the Options menu), not just for plug-in induced latency but it even compensates for hardware insert roundtrips. As soon as I put the hardware insert on my "Direct" track (following your example), it tells the other tracks to delay by 800samples (you can see it at the bottom of the tracks in the Mix window view), which (at that specific buffer setting) is exactly the roundtrip offset. I wonder if Avid made this an automatic process now?
Hi, Ive try the method that you use. My problem is that im getting the recorded signal BEFORE the original signal. I already try everything, Do you know what may be the cause of it?
In Logic you use the I/O plugin, under the utility folder in your plugin list. Select the input(s) and out(s) you wish to use for your outboard gear and use the ping function inside the plugin to compensate for the roundtrip delay. If you want to double check that it is correct you can test for any phase issues just as David has shown here.
As far as I can tell I've done exactly what is detailed in this video, however even with my delay compensation measured and typed into the I/O hardware insert section - the results from the click measurement test show the samples are even more out of sync than on the 1st click recording! I am so confused if anyone might understand why this is happening??
for whatever reason when I try to record with the hardware on for the latency no audio file shows up. anybody else have this problem . instead of the click track showing when I insert the hardware its just blank
@@mixbustv appreciate it I’ll look into that . Could it be the I/o settings routings or the hardware. Because I’m receiving audio levels through the hardware when I play back to get the delay. The pro tools line is just blank . So I guess it’s more so I just didn’t route it right
Question... Did you do the calculation with "Delay Compensation" turned off in the "Playback Engine Settings" and then turn it back on afterwords when you are ready to use the external gear.
It's irrelevant. Delay compensation is for plugins and internal calculation and it's completely different than hw compensation which compensate for the ADDA roundtrip. Not related
@@tomford8286 Yes that's why I said analog and not ourboard or hardware. Any digital unit will have their latency listed in the manual, you add that to the ADDA roundtrip
And again you are wrong with the "... any digital unit will have their latency listed in the manual." Care to place a bet? I'll need to see your money up front since it will be mine soon. Stop with the absolutes. They are often wrong. I suspect you don't have a degree in engineering? You would know these things if you did. Hell, a switch and a light bulb have latency. Even once the power hits the light bulb, there is latency. Less with LEDs, but latency. And the trip from DAW to off board and back is DAAD. Not ADDA. OK, class dismissed
I used protools 20 years ago and it is still hasnt moved forward at all, thats a former century procedure, while every other daw has a auto delay compensation and/or a ping .... Unbelievable!
Nice Video. I have a question David. Ive mixed in the box and have had good result. My interface is an Orion studio 2017. I added new gear to my chain. I added a burl audio b32 summing amp and burl audio b2 bomber adda converters. The b2 bomber adda converters are connected thru spidf to my interface. When I mix thru the burls my mix sounds great thru my monitors when I'm done. When I print the mix and listen to it. The mix sounds like GARBAGE. When I go back and mix 100% in the box and bounce the mix in pro tools. My mix sound good. I don't understand what is going on? Would your Audio Interface Latency When Mixing With Analog Gear method help me? I need help. I pulling my hair out Thanks David John
I'm monitoring thru the burl audio b26 ocra monitor controller. I really dont know what else to do. I have almost 10 grand in burl gear. But it sounds terrible when I print the mix. I'm still making payments on this gear. I not understanding why it doesnt print what I'm hearing. Do you know how to figure out this problem?
So I’ve tried this about 100 times and I still can’t get the calculations correct. For some reason my round trip signal is before the direct signal. Not sure why I can’t get an accurate sample count. Any suggestions? I’m using protools 12 with a focusrite 18i20 interface.
@@mixbustv Oh, so once you've set the parameters of the hardware you're running through, you just leave it be and continue mixing.. If I'm understanding you right. What I'm still kind of unsure of then is what happens when you go to export your final mix. Do you have to export in real time so the hardware can react properly? ..because when I export, it goes about five times the speed of real time. If you speed up the audio running through a compressor for example, obviously it's going to react different than it did in real time. This is what I'm kind of confused about. If you don't print, doesn't the hardware have to be running during export? Thanks for your time.
Will the same interface have different delay compilation per individual piece of outboard gear or same delay per interface for all the outboard gear attached?
Hi. I try to do what you do and for me dont work. I send everything from 1-8 to a summing device and the de St from the summing device to input 1-2 to my soundcard. I have latency. I calculate and is 1024 samples. I do 1024/48. And then I put this compedation in the io you said and nothing change after this.i still with the latency
How do you deal with recording offset? Pro Tools doesn't compensate the da (let's say your monitoring) and ad (what you are recording) with 3d party interfaces. Some guys use the meta plugin for that I do the old nudge after take. With some interfaces the samples are close enough but with some it's not even acceptable.
You shouldn't have any delay if your system is set correctly, latency sure, that you minimize using low buffer, but if your recordings are delayed your system is not set correctly or your interface drivers are really bad (and probably old as dust at this point)
No links in comments, youtube flag 'em. What's shown there it's a totally different issue. That video showed a ad-da roundtrip and I have at least 2 videos showing how to fix that, that is the ADDA roundtrip latency, then there's the hw insert latency, but the RECORDING of a source is never delayed, what can be delayed is the playback with high buffer size, if the recording is delayed once all the markers are checked it is bad drivers. But one needs to make sure the system is set correctly. There's also many interfaces now that offer direct monitoring and also PT offers low latency options as well. This is why I have MOTU
@@mixbustv I'm really sorry, I've deleted the link now from my comment. Actually what he explained is actually the same thing. I'm not talking about using hardware inserts or buffer size, I'm talking about recording offset and the latency within the converter itself, and you have to measure the roundtrip. Let's really exaggerate in this example: if your latency in the dac output to monitors is let's say 10 sec. Your playback is 10 sec late. If you're recording in to the adc (which also has a latency) for example 10 seconds again, what you actually play will be recorded 10 seconds later. In total that would be 20 seconds. Pro Tools will not compensate for this! In real world we're talking about mS not seconds. Back in the day when we used 3d party interfaces like lynx, prism, apogee etc with Pro Tools HD you had to manually set the recording offset in the Pro Tools menu. Today even if you have the Pro Tools HD software this is only available when using the hdx cards. There's threads about this on GS and Avid, people either use the meta plugin or manually nudge after take. Avid said years ago that they would look in to this and the only solution was to manually nudge after recording take. And they blame it on the drivers not reporting the latency correctly to Pro Tools. In my Pro Tools editing/overdub rig I've had antelope, UA, MOTU interfaces and "according" to Avid they have bad drivers then?
@@cristopherjohansson1323 it is not a problem, you just need to calculate once, compensate and be done with it. With that said, of course avid doesn't make this and other things easier, they want to sell their hw
Your interface may have the same latency but each piece of hardware also has its own latency. How can it be the same for every one? Is that right? Or am I wrong? Pro tools needs to have a ping option like literally every other daw
@@mixbustv FWIW, I did this today with my machine, and first I put a dead patch (out #3 to in #3 with only a patch cable, no audio gear) and ran the math. All seemed fine and it worked as described here. Then I hooked up a compressor chain and did the same thing and it was totally off.....BIG latency. So I re-ran the numbers with the compressor chain patched in and got a different set of numbers. I don't understand why. There's about 30ft of cable or so added, so maybe that has something to do with it. OR, more likely, PT is stupid and doesn't always work right. I had a lot of problems doing this with other sample rates, but at the moment it's working at 48k, so I'm just gonna leave it alone and hope nobody sends me any 96k stuff to mix. Anyway, long message. Thanks for the info.
Yeah, overpriced interfaces for something you can solve in 5 seconds lol, right too bad for me 😂 especially now that they removed I/O limit, avid owners must be ecstatic 🤣 digidesign
Thanks David! Avid needs to update this! a ping feature like every other DAW in the World...
My external verb and compressors are getting set up tonight! I'm adding 4x tape track loops as well which have been cool at times.
You just saved my life, thanks Dave. One of the most useful tips for me as I normally layer analog an digital bases. Midi track sending to both and believe it or not I will always do this by ear and of course the result was never perfect (ie I would have to align the transients). You made my workflow a lot better with this simple trick, I use Logic and Ableton though, but the calculator and getting the numbers right is what I was missing. Really, thanks mixbus Dave.
This is perfect and just what I needed. Thank you David!! 🤘🔥🔥
I used to calculate latency like this a long time ago then a few years ago Cubase automated the process and it's really convenient and always spot on. I did not know that ProTools still doesn't have a latency compensation feature for external FX.
@@mixbustv That's a great point David about the differences between outboard digital units. I'm glad I saw your comment on that here. Too bad that didn't get mentioned in the video though. But it's all good. :)
MixbusTV you're right latency was calculated bypassed. Always bypass the external units when pinging to get the roundtrip latency.
@@DynamicRockers As mentioned above, don't bypass if it's a DSP effect, because the DSP adds additional latency that needs to be accounted for.
To the point, and solid info. Pure gold.
Hey dude, Thank you for this!!! I just got into the 500 series stuff and this is a game changer. I wish it was easier to do, but this is the way. Pro Tools needs to get their shit together.
Cussing & swearing at the sound of my snare all night. Realize now I never sync’d the 48khz session gear from 44.1. This is definitely my issue. Thank you Sir. You just saved me a 2day headache. #Respect
So glad you did an updated version of this. This is perfect! Thanks dude
Good shit. I'm still not yet kitted out to go ADDA, but as I said in comment to another video you made on the subject of hardware processing utside the DAW, I want to have the process basic covered in advance. keep 'em coming
I just learned how to use my FATSO with exact presicion on my parallel track. Life is sooo easy with your tutorials. Thanx!
David, this is a FANTASTIC video !! Very detailed and informative! I use (2) Apollo 16 units cascaded. Also plenty of outboard gear. So far so good !! Thanks again !!
Of course, Pro Tools will automatically compensate the round trip delay to and from your interface -and any inserted 'analog' outboard hardware. (Analog processors will not induce any latency to the system) Digital outboard processors on the other hand (E.G. digital reverbs, delays, multi FX) will induce additional delay due to their own AD/DA convertors and processing delay, this is where you'll have to do a little arithmetic as PT has no way of knowing (lacking a 'ping' function) what that additional latency is.
Most manufacturers will include information about processing/conversion delay times at various sample rates in the documentation of the device.
@@mixbustv Hmm, I may have to go back and re-do my homework then. I thought Automatic Delay Compensation would take care of this same as it does for any other (plugin) insert. (I don't usually have to deal with it since my only hardware inserts are on the 2 bus.) Carry on David!
Just record the click track. Amazing trick. So simple and just so logic. Thank you David.
Thnx for tutorial! it helps a lot! i was dealing with 3 sample at 88,2 khz session and it was pain in the ass because original Avid manual for HD Native Thunderbold has errors. Thank You again!
Thank you I was looking for this video because I know I saw it once already. U da bes!
This is automatic in PreSonus Studio One Pipeline VST for hardware insert per track.
@@mixbustv Actually, it is very quick and versatile with no spending time calculating samples, all taken care of. Same applies in Cakewalk, auto-calculate and like in Pro-Tools, it's native and not a plugin.
BTW, great explanation video for Pro-Tools users.
Amazing! Straight to the point and accurate, Thanks
Great video man.. was very helpful . Thanks!
Thanks for the info!
Er ma gerd! I’ve been trying to figure out how to calculate this for the delay going through my Drawmer 1978, but the Cubase ping test kept saying 0.01ms yet I was still hearing comb filter phasing.
Now I can work it out!!!
Thank you so much!!!
🙏🏽⭐️👌🏾🤙🏾
You’re on 🔥 thx so much for this man!
Your the best David, thank you so much for this video 💪🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯
why you always solve my problem …thank you man🤘🏻
i love your videos
Thanks David. Great timing. Just getting ready to learn how to do this on Logic and Reaper. I have a ton of hardware to patch in that's been too lonely, for way too long.
Thanks David this is really valuable info. I’ll do this before reamping guitars
That was very informative David! Thanks...
Thanks for the tutorial. Just installed my first set of hardware for mixing and mastering. My sample distance from my Apollo x8p was 510 samples lol! Way more samples than yours in the video lol! But it compensated perfectly. I gotta do my Motu 828es ADAT next. Thanks again for the helpful video!
So incredibly helpful!! Thank u!!
Great information thanks 🙏🏽
its a good video, keep on making them.
Really helpful !
Thanks!
Bro, anything you say! Don't want to be slammed by you🤣. Just a joke, great video, man!!👍
Thanks for the great video.
That's genus!
Marvelous!
thanks
Mines isnt lining up still. I changed it and everything and its still recording off.
I was just trying to figure out if I needed to do what you were doing with the delay compensation. And just realized I got lucky I bought 300$ cheap digi 192 and thunderbolt box, and didnt have to deal with it.NO way and hell I would have gave them 10000$ for that back then. IT must be why people like joe barressi and other top studios still use them old 192 for that automatic delay compensation for hardware?
I tried it out but was surprised that upon recording, my sound waves were not delayed but the original was shown early. Even though I have never changed the parameter "H / W Insert Delay". It is at 0.00. Why is that? Protools Ultimate 2020 + HD Native Card.
Wow, even 0:1 ms. Nice vid man!
Another helpful video David, great stuff. How do you change the length on the Transport to read samples? mine displays Bars/Beats? Cant seem to find the transport prefs to change it
There's a little white arrow next to the counter value in the main transport section which leads to a drop down menu to choose what increments you want to see.
do you have to have ADAT 5-6 on the mix buss send . I see it there but it wasn't covered as to why its there
what happens if my hardware insert click
shows up early?
studio one does it for you
Theoretical setup will it work? Interface with multiple io, hardware synths, hardware samplers, and outboard processors.
The music i create is all done OTB with hardware sequencers, synths etc, what i would like to be able to do is mix on the fly with all my outboard gear whilst im creating a track, meaning before anything would be recorded to a computer. For example using an outboard reverb for all my drums before on similar to like you would with a aux send on a mixer. Grouping drums/synths sending them out to outboard eqs, Using a comp on the masterbus etc. Basically what im saying i would like to be able to utilize all my outboard gear before anything would be recorded and commited to the computer? In otherwords having an analog mixer workflow with an interface.
Is this type of workflow possible with just a interface or would i run into all sorts latency issues from the roundtrip to outboard gear? I would like to avoid having a mixer if i can.
Suggestions on similar types of workflow with a setup like this?
Cheers!
Of course is possible, you need as many physical I/O as you plan on having running at once, as many eq and comp as you plan on using and simply go from your instruments to the inputs where then all the outboard is connected then in PT. You said you want to process before anything gets recorded in the computer so you have zero roundtrip. That would be my setup where I mix with it, not record. You'd save quite some money tho it you had even a small mixer cause that setup is expensive
@@mixbustv Thanks man, i appreciate you taking the time to help, been workin in the analog realm since i started some years back, now just trying to figure out the signal path working in a daw environment. I actually have a 6 channel vintage mixer that sounds really good its the akai mg614, but no direct outs on it and i would love to be able to multitrack out to daw to finally start to release som music! Gonna keep this mixer more like a processor tho, cause the preamps and eq on that thing is real good for the stuff i do.
I still have one question i wanna be clear about. Lets say i have drums on input 1-3 of a interface then i would create a stereo subgroup of them in the daw, then send it out to a stereo processor, so even a situation like this wouldnt cause any roundtrip latency? Im probably overthinking this stuff anyways but i like to stay concise!
Probably gonna go with the scarlett 1820 interface plus a behringer ada8200, io should be enough for what i do plus it wouldnt break the bank! The big six would probably also be nice but then again that would cost 5 times more 😅
Man i kept on rambling 😅, thanks again i appreciate what you do, definately top channels on mixing in youtube!
Cheers!
Hi, i have the delay compensation enabled for the other plugins, and when do the recording after the trip to the interface as you said, came back before my original track not after, how can i change the sample delay to came after and not before so i can do the h/w insert modification, pro tools is delaying each insert in 1760 samples, how can i change it to be less, and only with the analog inserts? Thanks
I performed the configuration but it did not work, protools 12, will it be a bug?
Is the intro new? Video looks sharper 👌
I recently upgraded from avid hardware to an orion 32+. I never had to worry about any of this until now. Thanks David for this tutorial and this did tighten up my latency to outboard gear when I run out from single tracks or buses but I am still having bad phasing problems to outboard gear when running parallel compression. The parallel compression works fine with a plugin . I have the H/W delay 100% accurate. Any ideas of what would cause this?
I had an older Orion USB and would find the H/W latency could change. It wasn't always the same on each bootup. Might have been USB issues, I'm not sure.
I've seen you take about the Motu you use but I didn't know it was your interface I thought the SSL was.
@@mixbustv Why are leaving the SSL? The thing about using two separate interface and ADDA is that you hear the interface driver in the DAW correct? An interface turns 1's and 0's into audio so at some point you will need it for conversion for all the inputs coming from your ADDA to convert that audio into your computer correct? Even a digital signal needs to be converted into 1s and 0s via an interface. My question is why use so much high end gear just to put that thru a Motu?
thank youuuuuuuu.
thats crazy
Hi David. As you are hybrid, as you load in more plugins does the latency start to increase? Or is that why you got the new PC with Thunder? I went and watched the 2016 version of this vid too. Thank you for making it and posting it.
My connection is not firewire, is Thunderbolt, which of course does help with latency (altho if you only mix and master like I do is pretty irrelevant), but you're confusing this latency showed in the video with the latency you get when recording, and with plugin latency, they're 3 different things. The first never changes, and it depends on your computer and drivers, the 3rd is how many plugins (that do have latency, not all do) you open on a single track, the track with the most latency + the mixbus latency must be below the maximum your DAW auto compensates, hardware doesn't have latency in itself, the roundtrip (showed in this video) is fixed and the computer automatically compensate for it adding it to the insert when you insert a hw in the chain.
I’m curious if I should be doing this. I have my converters going into my mixer. And I use my mixer as a monitor controller. When I record thru the mixer to use the compressor, I have it ran through the main outs (1/2) and return on 1/2 (AD/DA). For that return I usually have a vocal or 2 track. And I do this in stems. Am I inherently creating delay? I also sent an email. Thank you for your videos.
Hi David, do you maybe know how to compensate if my receiving signal is actually ahead of the original?
Turn off delay compensation when you test
@@mixbustv Yea I tried, but as soon as I turn delay compensation back on, it comes even more ahead.
Hi David!! Question: let's say I only work at 48k. Would this be "set and forget" or it changes from session to session, depending on number of inserts etc? Thank you!
Yes it would if you don't change the SR
@@mixbustv You're the best!
@@mixbustv I'm a new mixbus member. How do i download the template link to this video? Has it been uploaded? Where do I find it?
ok I remade the templaate. I did everything the same the problem is when I insert my hardware wa293 pre amp and eq it doesn't get any signal audio levels in pro tools . if I take it off I see signal. anybody know why that's happening. when I look at my outfit level on the hardware its picking up the click track but nothing is recorded in pro tools when I'm trying to get that second audio click track with the insert on
You can book private consultation for studio setup at bookinghfs@gmail.com
Hi David, Thanks for making this video... I recently got an API2500 and wanted to mix into it. I'm curious what version of Protools you're running in this video because my Protools version (which is a couple years older than this video) Protools 2018.4 (running on a MacPro) seems to automatically compensate (with "Delay Compensation" turned ON in the Options menu), not just for plug-in induced latency but it even compensates for hardware insert roundtrips. As soon as I put the hardware insert on my "Direct" track (following your example), it tells the other tracks to delay by 800samples (you can see it at the bottom of the tracks in the Mix window view), which (at that specific buffer setting) is exactly the roundtrip offset. I wonder if Avid made this an automatic process now?
I have no idea, on PT12 this still applies
Hi, Ive try the method that you use. My problem is that im getting the recorded signal BEFORE the original signal. I already try everything, Do you know what may be the cause of it?
Could be many things, you can book a consultation if you want at bookinghfs@gmail.com
I followed all the steps and I don't have any latency, I guess AUD Apollo is sick hahah
Anybody knows if there’s a good tutorial like this but for logic pro x? Im literally just connecting my new converter 🌚
In Logic you use the I/O plugin, under the utility folder in your plugin list. Select the input(s) and out(s) you wish to use for your outboard gear and use the ping function inside the plugin to compensate for the roundtrip delay. If you want to double check that it is correct you can test for any phase issues just as David has shown here.
As far as I can tell I've done exactly what is detailed in this video, however even with my delay compensation measured and typed into the I/O hardware insert section - the results from the click measurement test show the samples are even more out of sync than on the 1st click recording! I am so confused if anyone might understand why this is happening??
Same , I wonder if buffer size has anything to do
Same here bro
i am having this problem as well
Hi David, a question to you. Have you ever used the Reainsert plugin for latency compensation? Any thoughts on it perhaps, would be nice to hear?
Never heard of it
for whatever reason when I try to record with the hardware on for the latency no audio file shows up. anybody else have this problem . instead of the click track showing when I insert the hardware its just blank
Your routing is wrong
@@mixbustv appreciate it I’ll look into that .
Could it be the I/o settings routings or the hardware. Because I’m receiving audio levels through the hardware when I play back to get the delay. The pro tools line is just blank . So I guess it’s more so I just didn’t route it right
Question... Did you do the calculation with "Delay Compensation" turned off in the "Playback Engine Settings" and then turn it back on afterwords when you are ready to use the external gear.
It's irrelevant. Delay compensation is for plugins and internal calculation and it's completely different than hw compensation which compensate for the ADDA roundtrip. Not related
@@mixbustv THANKS!!! 👍
Great information. But what about the latency of the actual piece of hardware connected? Shouldn't the recorded click go through the hardware as well?
Analog has no latency
@@mixbustv Not all off board gear is analog only. I use guitar multi effects that are digital and indeed add latency.
@@tomford8286 Yes that's why I said analog and not ourboard or hardware. Any digital unit will have their latency listed in the manual, you add that to the ADDA roundtrip
@@mixbustv Well, you are wrong. Everything in the universe has latency. What you meant to say is the latency is negligible.
And again you are wrong with the "... any digital unit will have their latency listed in the manual." Care to place a bet? I'll need to see your money up front since it will be mine soon. Stop with the absolutes. They are often wrong. I suspect you don't have a degree in engineering? You would know these things if you did. Hell, a switch and a light bulb have latency. Even once the power hits the light bulb, there is latency. Less with LEDs, but latency. And the trip from DAW to off board and back is DAAD. Not ADDA. OK, class dismissed
I used protools 20 years ago and it is still hasnt moved forward at all, thats a former century procedure, while every other daw has a auto delay compensation and/or a ping .... Unbelievable!
Yep but Logic f.e. dont care about the hardware and you are free to use whatever you prefer and delay compensation is still done automatically ;)
genial. salvou o rolê.
Nice Video. I have a question David. Ive mixed in the box and have had good result. My interface is an Orion studio 2017. I added new gear to my chain. I added a burl audio b32 summing amp and burl audio b2 bomber adda converters. The b2 bomber adda converters are connected thru spidf to my interface. When I mix thru the burls my mix sounds great thru my monitors when I'm done. When I print the mix and listen to it. The mix sounds like GARBAGE. When I go back and mix 100% in the box and bounce the mix in pro tools. My mix sound good. I don't understand what is going on? Would your Audio Interface Latency When Mixing With Analog Gear method help me? I need help. I pulling my hair out
Thanks David
John
I'm monitoring thru the burl audio b26 ocra monitor controller. I really dont know what else to do. I have almost 10 grand in burl gear. But it sounds terrible when I print the mix. I'm still making payments on this gear. I not understanding why it doesnt print what I'm hearing. Do you know how to figure out this problem?
Any help would be much appreciated
Do I need to pay and subscribe to your channel to get help from you David? I dont know how it work. I thought you put out videos to help people.
John 415 dude, he’s not your personal tech. Whining doesn’t look good on you.
@@cary3428 No one said he was. I just ask for some help. If he's putting video out to help people I thought he would. I guess your his fan boy?
🤯👏🏼
if I put 2 or more hardware insert in one track? Pro Tools automatically calculate the "double" delay?
So I’ve tried this about 100 times and I still can’t get the calculations correct. For some reason my round trip signal is before the direct signal. Not sure why I can’t get an accurate sample count. Any suggestions? I’m using protools 12 with a focusrite 18i20 interface.
Do you have delay compensation on?
@@mixbustv I do have it turned on.
Besides « delay compensation » is there a fonction to activate the hardware insert delay ?
no
@@mixbustv thanks for the confirmation.
@@mixbustv any idea why changing numbers doesn’t make any difference ?
I cant get It working properly on a profire2626 Its Just dont compensate.
It's not your interface, it's your drivers
@@mixbustv i guess só. I'll try to find a better. But dont know exists. Think i'm using the latest. Mac os 10.8.5 by the way.
I have been struggling with this for days..My insert print is coming in faster instead of late.
You ever figure this out?
I'm a Misbus member. How can I download this template? I'm having no success downloading or locating this template.. Please help
Hi there, the template is no longer available unfortunately
@@mixbustv wow! Is there any way I can obtain it? That's what attracted me to join membership.. Any possible way to make an exception for me?
@@mixbustv Do you have a tutorial on creating this template?
ok so I'm not sure how its possible, my insert comes in 41 samples earlier than the direct
check your latency compensation
It would be nice if I could pay with iDeal to become member.
hey do u use a summing mixer
No
What would be the difference if you just re-aligned the delayed track with the original track after recording?
@@mixbustv Oh, so once you've set the parameters of the hardware you're running through, you just leave it be and continue mixing.. If I'm understanding you right. What I'm still kind of unsure of then is what happens when you go to export your final mix. Do you have to export in real time so the hardware can react properly? ..because when I export, it goes about five times the speed of real time. If you speed up the audio running through a compressor for example, obviously it's going to react different than it did in real time. This is what I'm kind of confused about. If you don't print, doesn't the hardware have to be running during export? Thanks for your time.
@@mixbustv Got u.. thanks
Where can i get the tamplate so i can do this
It's not available anymore
Can u send me it by email 😢
Will the same interface have different delay compilation per individual piece of outboard gear or same delay per interface for all the outboard gear attached?
Analog has no delay, so it doesn't matter what unit is connected, it's the interface drivers/pc specs that dictates the latency, same for all channels
@@mixbustv Thank You David. 👍
Hi. I try to do what you do and for me dont work. I send everything from 1-8 to a summing device and the de St from the summing device to input 1-2 to my soundcard. I have latency. I calculate and is 1024 samples. I do 1024/48. And then I put this compedation in the io you said and nothing change after this.i still with the latency
Of course you do, you're sending everything and re-recording, this is meant to compensate hardware inserts
MixbusTv so how i do this? Where? I dont see any change when i put the compensation in io
How do you deal with recording offset? Pro Tools doesn't compensate the da (let's say your monitoring) and ad (what you are recording) with 3d party interfaces. Some guys use the meta plugin for that I do the old nudge after take. With some interfaces the samples are close enough but with some it's not even acceptable.
You shouldn't have any delay if your system is set correctly, latency sure, that you minimize using low buffer, but if your recordings are delayed your system is not set correctly or your interface drivers are really bad (and probably old as dust at this point)
No links in comments, youtube flag 'em. What's shown there it's a totally different issue. That video showed a ad-da roundtrip and I have at least 2 videos showing how to fix that, that is the ADDA roundtrip latency, then there's the hw insert latency, but the RECORDING of a source is never delayed, what can be delayed is the playback with high buffer size, if the recording is delayed once all the markers are checked it is bad drivers. But one needs to make sure the system is set correctly. There's also many interfaces now that offer direct monitoring and also PT offers low latency options as well. This is why I have MOTU
@@mixbustv I'm really sorry, I've deleted the link now from my comment. Actually what he explained is actually the same thing. I'm not talking about using hardware inserts or buffer size, I'm talking about recording offset and the latency within the converter itself, and you have to measure the roundtrip. Let's really exaggerate in this example: if your latency in the dac output to monitors is let's say 10 sec. Your playback is 10 sec late. If you're recording in to the adc (which also has a latency) for example 10 seconds again, what you actually play will be recorded 10 seconds later. In total that would be 20 seconds. Pro Tools will not compensate for this! In real world we're talking about mS not seconds. Back in the day when we used 3d party interfaces like lynx, prism, apogee etc with Pro Tools HD you had to manually set the recording offset in the Pro Tools menu. Today even if you have the Pro Tools HD software this is only available when using the hdx cards. There's threads about this on GS and Avid, people either use the meta plugin or manually nudge after take. Avid said years ago that they would look in to this and the only solution was to manually nudge after recording take. And they blame it on the drivers not reporting the latency correctly to Pro Tools. In my Pro Tools editing/overdub rig I've had antelope, UA, MOTU interfaces and "according" to Avid they have bad drivers then?
The solution for Avid make recording offset setting available on the software when not using HDX cards. Sounds simple but they won't.
@@cristopherjohansson1323 it is not a problem, you just need to calculate once, compensate and be done with it. With that said, of course avid doesn't make this and other things easier, they want to sell their hw
Your interface may have the same latency but each piece of hardware also has its own latency. How can it be the same for every one? Is that right? Or am I wrong? Pro tools needs to have a ping option like literally every other daw
What? Analog has no latency.. zero, none. Only digital units can have it and it's listed in every manual how much is gonna be
@@mixbustv FWIW, I did this today with my machine, and first I put a dead patch (out #3 to in #3 with only a patch cable, no audio gear) and ran the math. All seemed fine and it worked as described here.
Then I hooked up a compressor chain and did the same thing and it was totally off.....BIG latency.
So I re-ran the numbers with the compressor chain patched in and got a different set of numbers.
I don't understand why. There's about 30ft of cable or so added, so maybe that has something to do with it.
OR, more likely, PT is stupid and doesn't always work right.
I had a lot of problems doing this with other sample rates, but at the moment it's working at 48k, so I'm just gonna leave it alone and hope nobody sends me any 96k stuff to mix.
Anyway, long message. Thanks for the info.
I guess your not using the digidesign are avid converters through the digilink cable. well to bad for you.
Yeah, overpriced interfaces for something you can solve in 5 seconds lol, right too bad for me 😂 especially now that they removed I/O limit, avid owners must be ecstatic 🤣 digidesign
2.52
Pro Tools livin in 2005
Would be a velociraptor if he was a dinosaur lol
You could just put the counter in minutes : seconds
Or not. Since it takes 13 samples to even measure 0.0.001 on the counter. Good idea if you want to make this completely useless.