Just got back into reloading and a friend recommended your channel. Just subscribed 😂 cheers! Also, should I anneal my 338 Lapua cases after every fire/resizing? Or every 2-3?
Thanks Kindsir, but I don't know if old guys rule so much as pick their shots based on what decades of experience have taught them. Hang in there, good sir!
You have chosen wisely and will be rewarded with free value able information! Us old guys are still alive for some reason and when we offer free info it’s a time to be all ears🤔😳🙌
The 6.5 Creedmoor has become the cartridge everyone likes to dump on. The inherent accuracy of the 6.5 Creedmoor has helped swing the pendulum away from velocity and energy toward accuracy and shot placement. Largely thanks to the 6.5 Creedmoor most gun manufacturers now offer rifles guaranteed to shoot sub moa.
Great content. Loving your channel. I have been hunting for 40+ years. Mostly deer, pheasants, ducks, geese, elk, antelope and yotes. What I have learned over those 40+ years is that a heart shot is a good kill shot but it's not the best. I much prefer a double lung, through and through. Let me explain.... With a heart shot, you get rapid blood loss and the heart is no longer pumping blood. But you have the lung continuing to oxygenate the blood and muscles moving blood through the body. I've had whitetails run for miles with the heart shredded. Not often but it is maddening when it happens. With a double lung, through and through, you get a sucking chest wound and 2 collapsed lungs. The lungs are no longer oxygenating the blood and regardless of the heart pumping blood, the blood doesn't have any oxygen in it to fuel muscles. No oxygen = quick death. Yes, both wounds are lethal. But you won't be tracking the double lunger for very far. The only thing faster is a shock to the central nervous system. I.e. - brain or upper spine. Those can be difficult shots at ranges of 200 yds or more. The lung shot is a considerably larger target area. For my money, I'll take the double lunger.
Hi again there, Ron. After watching and enjoying this video in addition to your others, commenting here and there, I wanted to take just a moment to share with you, your first time viewers, and subscribers what a likable, pragmatic, and good natured communicator you are and present with your channel. We folks who write in comments and questions to you are a very eclectic spattering of learned knowledge, from the very beginner in all genres firearms, to the seasoned and learned veteran. You have decades of study and are truly a warehouse of retained knowledge in all things rifle and cartridge. Thank you for your demeanor and at times, patience. You know more than 99.99% of your audience, yet you reflect to your viewers a genuine happy-go-lucky friend to all who write in. Never boastful, you share your thoughts, insights, and display dignity to each of us and communicate extremely effectively. Your sense of humor mixed in with sound and accurate advice is appreciated. I would also like to give a plug on your new 7MM book. It is a great read and well researched. If one likes and appreciates all things 7MM, it is a must read to learn from, or if one is well versed in the calibers of Number 7, than a great fireside companion. Well thought out by addressing each cartridge in tiers of relative power, you also bring out the historical perspective on each cartridge as well as external ballistic characteristics, while offering subtle suggestions on your personal conclusions and reasons for selection. ‘Sorta fun how you inject human emotion into the descriptors of some of them. So again Ron, KUDOS to you, and hope you always hunt safe and shoot straight as well. Thank You. Paul from Park Rapids, MN.
Great video Ron. The banter over the 6.5 Creedmoor reminds me of the banter between myself and my daughter over Taylor Swift and George Strait. I tell her that while Swift can sing King George doesn’t have to put on a show to get the job done because he just that much better. We have a ton of fun sniping each other over these singers. Take care.
Agreeing to disagree and being willing to consider the other's position without rancor and condemnation are two critical components of discourse largely missing from our culture.
On the single shot rifle, I think a 270 would be a fine choice, esp for the hand loader. It's been a while since I've used either of mine, but a Remington in 270 is the gun I've taken the most coyote with. Literally hundreds of them. A buddy of mine that is a prolific hand loader worked up a lighter load. He originally used the Berger Classic Hunter and switched to the Game King. Both were right around 2500 fps, 130 grain, can't remember the powder he used. It was quite mild. Then I'd use the full load of choice for hog or deer, though I have no doubt those lighter hand loads would do just fine within 250 yards. I'd feel a bit better with full loads for deer.
I am using 200gr ELD- X on all game(30-06, Elk, Deer) determine your powder and load. Usually don't need to increase powder load just use the factor loads, then customize your loads to the factory load.
I love that freedom bell that's really awesome. I like how the tone changes when you put your hand under it. Really enjoy your videos, very educational and entertaining. You sir, are a genius!
U mentioned all copper bullets. I was old fashioned and stubborn. Never had any use for them . Then i bought some that were on sale , just because they were a good deal. Use them deer season. WOW !!! I’m sold!!! U can teach an old dog . lol I talk about them a lot now . I even recommend them . They perform great.
Ron, I am going to have to go with the listener on the comment of, increased spin rate will increase the down range energy of the round, or at least the down range energy potential. Yes, you are correct that rotational energy can take away from the forward energy of the projectile. You are also correct that forward energy is lost at a higher rate than rotational energy. But what you don't say is that a higher velocity bullet will incur an exponential increase of wind resistance, so, a bullet traveling 3000 fps might loose 300 fps on it's way to the 100 yard line. The same bullet at 1/3 the forward velocity, so 1000 fps, will only loose 50 fps on the way to the 100 yard line. Thus, if both bullets were fired with the same cartridge pressure but one of them was spun at a much faster rate and a slower forward velocity, one of those bullets is going to carry it's energy with MUCH more efficiency down range. The problem then becomes, how to transfer that rotational energy into a game animal. Obviously no one wants to hunt with a projectile velocity of 1000 fps, but what about stepping down from say a 1/10 twist .30 caliber at 3000 fps to a 1/6 twist .30 at 2700 fps? Hard to say how much energy advantage there is without a degree in physics, but there is something there.
Yeah, something there, but not much, in my opinion because, as you note, converting rotational energy into trauma is ?? I routinely see the petals of X-style bullets twisted to about 40-degrees. Expansion is usually at least 2X, so a .308" bullet expands to a 60-caliber for a bigger hole, but you might get just 3, perhaps 4 revolutions of that broadened, sharp edged bullet while passing through 18 inches of tissue. Lateral tearing on the perimeter of the wound channel seems minimal compared to the forward bullet path. I'm putting my money on penetration first, rotation a distant third, and I'm not eager to trade forward velocity and long range reach and minimal wind deflection for possible wounding potential from rotation. Now, if rotational energy can be converted into dispersion of a broken projectile (once inside the vitals,) that works. It's the varmint bullet. Deadly on deer IF you get it inside. But then you have the lead fragments thither and yon in the meat. Likely won't impact humans, but proven again and again to kill scavenging birds. I have had good fragmenting results with copper Hammer hunters (petals designed to break away) and a CPA bullet (same approach) out of Europe. I think some Badlands Precision and Cutting Edge bullets do this, too. Might be the ideal compromise. I may be testing a 3" twist 8.6 this summer and have more info on rotational impacts.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Hey Ron, thanks for the reply. My only argument is that there is a potential for increased down range energy in focusing the available energy in faster spinning bullets rather than forward velocity. It’s a concept that has not been deeply studied yet. The 8.6 Blackout developers have really been pushing the idea forward though, taking a zebra at about 300 yards with a slow moving bullet and relying heavily on twist rate and an extremely high expanding bullet to get it done. Deserves some more study.
In South Africa, PMP/Musgrave necked down the 303 British to 6mm (6mm Masgrave) they also rebarrel would 303 rifles to 6mm. PMP makes factory ammo and brass for it. Very similar ballistics to the 243 Win..
Sorry, Anna. I guess I haven't noticed the fan girls being quite as -- how shall I put this without offending anyone? -- unrealistically enthusiastic about the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Northwest territory is in canada, in the nortern part of canada at a similar latitude as Alaska there a three less populated regions called territorys, Yukon bordering alaska, Northwest territory in the middle and Nunavut as lots of islands going far north an east closer to Greenland
I like your informative Q&A vids! I do ask that you consider a couple of options to make it easier for viewers. 1) Cut the hour long vids into two or three vids and release them on different days. It would make it easier for us to find specific topics and watch more often. 2) Add “chapter breaks/captions” at the bottom of the video, so we can find the question (s) we want to watch or re-find. I find I dont watch regularly because of the video length and title topic, even tho there may be good info I shouldnt miss. Thanks!
Hey Ron, the man asking about the recoil of his 7mm Rem Mag, if he has a synthetic stock, he might try what my old friend did with his rifle, & fill the stock with play sand from the box stores. It worked great for him. P.S. this is from your Mar 19th podcast.
I have about 7-8 in the cartridge and on most of my rifles I put a break and a limb saver pad and it turns thst magnum into a nice sweet shooting rifle that you will enjoy a whole lot more my friend! I put breaks on most of my 60+ year rifle collection! When hunting you don’t notice the recoil much but in the range it sure can make range time much more pleasant.
I got kind of a chuckle when your correspondent went through all of the various "statistics" of cartridges and rifles, when that old .270 has taken so many types of game, in such quantity, over the years... Somehow, it seems that results, like a picture, are worth a thousand words ( or statistics 😉)!
Yes, Capstick was an entertaining writer who told some engaging stories, but many PHs complain that he mostly retold THEiR stories, often placing himself in the hero's position. Regardless, the stories are exciting, often surprising, and well spun. Capstick's books have fueled many an African safari and should fuel many more.
The problem as Chapstick got older his mind started making him think that others hunts were his hunts and I think it’s not intentional because I have a very old friend of mine and I am old myself who does the same think! He was a great hunter and we just need to realize this when we read his books which I have had them all at one time before giving them as gifts
I 2nd “Charles’”, suggestion on scopes, reticle, FFP’s, SFP’s, M.O.A. vs. Mil, Duplex, Horus, BDC, LPVO’s, 1” vs. 30mm or 34mm & bigger, German vs Japanese Glass, etc.
I was totally against the 6.5 creedmoor until I picked one up in the Bergara wilderness HMR what's a 26 inch barrel .25 inch groups at 100 yards and half inch group at 200 yards with Hornady eldm match 140 grain!!!
I got to see a shock wave damage from my son’s 243 at 85 yards on a whitetail doe. In processing the doe, we found the backbone was broken by the shockwave but the backstrap was not damaged. Both lungs were taken out, and the shot was about half way up the body and behind the shoulder.
There is no controversy about the damage done by the large temporary cavity of a high-speed bullet hitting tissue. The are arguments, though of exactly how the animal is killed. Some have argued that the "hydrostatic shock" from those bullets will cause brain damage and instant death, even if the animal is shot in the leg. Others argue that the shock just stuns the animal and normal blood loss is what actually kills it. I tend to lean towards the "stunned" idea, since often animals seem to recover and run after initially collapsing from being hit.
I've shot 3 bucks, broadside between 75y and 125y with 90gr .243. All 3 dropped in there tracks instantly. Upon dressing, the round went thru close side of rib cage and stuck in opposite rib cage. Lungs and some internals were a liquefied mess.@@jfess1911
FBI studies show that (in humans) a projectile traveling at 2200 fps causes tissues to expand past their elasticity to the point it tears and cannot return to normal, which causes shock and almost instantaneous death. I believe that's what they call hydrostatic shock. ruclips.net/video/T6kUvi72s0Y/видео.htmlsi=RwX-kse_l2L0DvrS around the 12:47 mark
You must be dreaming , a 243 is an old cartridge and won’t take anything ! 😂 A 6.5 Crapmore is the only cartridge that can take an animal . No other cartridge is any good for hunting ! 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣………
you need to look at the 338 Norma mag...they are lookiing at it for the replacement of the M240 with much more energy at a 4000lb energy level to be between the 6.8 and the 50 bmg for anti vehicle and other use....shorter action and with soft point bullets it would be a serious big game cartricge ...idk where that will go.
I get a kick about all the hype on what is better. Where I hunt and for what I hunt a 30-30, 32 Special, 303 Savage or the 35 Rem will do just fine. I used a 300 Savage in case I might want to shoot at 200/250 yards. Today I use a 6.5x55 Swede. It isn't better for what I do, It's just I like the cartridge. There are better cartridges for other purposes that will serve purposes other than mine and those people will have lots of choices that will do without one being better than the other. Its always fun to defend your favorite cartridge. I remember as a kid at the hunting camp listening to the old timers explaining to each other why their cartridge is better. LOL Availability could certainly make a cartridge better than the other or the type of firearm available for the cartridge and on and on..........
I just looked that up holy mackerel. 1913 the 300 win mag would have been a lead balloon if Remington or savage were making good bolt guns for that. And people say the 264 win mag was ahead of it’s time.
I have only been deer, elk, pronghorn, and Ibex with muzzle-loader for the past 10. We have a draw in New Mexico so it is hard to get a regular rifle draw. I just got my must belated military disability because I never applied. I was in the Air Force and didn't apply because I was on the NASA sounding rocket program after AF and was not challenged to work hard except on the Engineering part. I could have been 70 percent for the past 30 years. Aim High.
For 6.5 Fanboys... To me, they're just people who were never exposed to the 6.5 Swede... Either that or they're the ones that can't help but excitedly/rapidly cycle the bolt of a short action. ;) I tend to be thankful for the fanboys personally. It has benefited the caliber by expanding bullet options for the sibling cartridges. As for the outrageous claims... Even if they were true, just because you "can" do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. You CAN potentially kill a deer with a 22LR, doesn't mean you should try to do so.
Same can be said about taking a shot passed 300yrds. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. That being said, 147g up to 400yrds has more than enough energy to take down anything on this side of the pond. Going for Cape Buffalo are we ? I don't even own a 6.5cm, comments like yours make me laugh. Haters gonna hate, amazing how people think higher caliber suddenly unlocks better ability to shoot....Crazy 😅
@@Hanibul_Lecktor You misunderstand. I don't have hate for the round, just the nonsensical adherence by many who were oblivious to it already essentially existing. In actuality, I had already got reloading dies for it expecting to acquire one to use at the range prolonging the barrel life of my older custom 6.5Swede, but fate provided a 6.5PRC before for a steal. I'll still get a heavy barrel 6.5CM eventually. I do also not really put much credence in Short vs Long Action differences as either work equally well in the majority of situations. Essentially the .260 Rem more or less mirrored the 6.5Swe. Then the 6.5CM tried to keep the short action but restore the seating options of the 6.5Swe. That's a long way to go to do a full 360. Across the pond, many are running the Swede art equal pressures to the CM to fantastic results. And besides, I would prefer a 6.5BJAI over any of the three. Will end up being old reliable's rebarrel eventually. :)
Star-line brass should have the 40-82 Winchester. Taylors firearms might get you there, but your in South America You might have ITAR problems, black hills can get some of that stuff.
I hit my 1st milkjug at 1 mile with a 338 LM. the rifle had a fast for caliber 1:8 twist with straight bartlein barrel.. it was great... but I sold it and got a custom 6.5 CM (28" straight kieger 1:7) I did this for less concussion, cost, and recoil. I don't hunt and I recognize most of your audience are hunters, so my info doesn't speak to 6.5 CM hunter fan bois... but hell, for lower recoil, lower concussion, higher precision... yup, I'm 6.5 CM fan boi
That is also my favorite variation of the 30-06 case. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a good cartridge for people who are recoil sensitive or have no need for a higher-power cartridge, but the 280AI definitely has more oomph.
Hi Ron, I have a few questions/comments, starting off, as a hunter in Arizona, the chance of going after coues deer and pronghorn is relevant and a personal dream of mine. I have a .308 and a 30-06. I wonder if I should get a 6mm creedmore, a 6.5 PRC, or any of these new, flat shooting cartridges. Side note: The 300 AAC Blackout is dangerously underrated. My brother took his first javelina with it and that bullet went through its hind left and out the lungs while the boar was quartering. And finally, I have a AR-15 chambered in 300 OSSM and I have a few live rounds and some brass but the brass is hard to come by and I'm thinking about rechambering the rifle. Any cartridge recommendations? I already have a .223, 300 BLK, and a 458 Socom.
Best " wax" ive found for waterproofing is " Sno-Seal". Running through swamps all summer in my leather boots waterproof. Works great on all leather. Belts, rifle slings. Rub it on thick & warm the leather til no more will soak in & your good to go. I either hang my boots over the woodstove or put em in a plastic bag in the sun. Works great on the knees/ cuffs of Carhart snowsuits too where your kneeling down all the time on the trapline.
Hey Ron, it has been a while since you have talked about the 338 RPM, i was wondering if you could do a cartridge review on the .338 RPM versus the 338 Win Mag? There is now load dates for the 338 RPM.
I’m new to rifle shooting/hunting. Living in ohio where straightwalled cartridges are all that’s allowed. I haven’t heard you say anything about Henry’s 360 and was wandering what you thought about it for deer hunting 200 yards and under.
For Arturo in Paraguay, 40-82 can be reformed (& trimmed) from 45-90 brass - which has been available from Starline, Graf & Sons, Ten-X, and a couple other places. A 408 mold might require a custom maker such as Arsenal molds. Mike Venturino put together a good book on loading and shooting those "oldie but goodie" cartridges. Don't recall the title right now. And, of course, you can never go wrong with a case full of black powder. Suggest a google search to find out who he can get stuff through. For a falling block, with those parameters, pretty much anything 24 cal and above would work. My vote (sorry fan boy haters) for that application would be 6.5x55 Swede, or the 6.5 "C" - which is essentially a short action 6.5x55. With a fast twist, they are capable of up to 160 grain bullets, and the Europeans use it on everything up to and including moose. As for calibers and ranges, bullet placement is, and always has been, the key. Many moons ago, when I had young eyes, we would hunt coyotes with a 22LR at ranges up to 150 yards. When we got older and started to read the gurus, we kept reading that the 22LR was "too small" for coyotes at any range. While we knew those statements weren't true, those magazines stimulated our growth into other calibers and etc. etc. etc. Good times ....... P.S. - Candle wax not a good choice. It will crack and break off. Haven't tried it, but beeswax should be a better choice. Traditionally they used a "oiled" wax, but that stuff was always slightly "sticky". Otherwise, just periodic cleaning with saddle soap and a yearly treatment of a "leather rejuvenater" should keep it going almost forever.
How to handle 6.5 Creedmoor fan boys? Ron I suggest they upgrade to the .308 Creedmoor lol. Launches heavier bullets and has alot more power. Viable 500 yard Elk stopping power by the numbers with 178 and 200 grain bullets according to 4DOF. A touch over 1500 ft pounds @500 yards.
@@edwardabrams4972 ... How to deal with someone as handicapped as you? "Drodes"??? Are you trying to refer to Star Wars episode 4, A New Hope? The scene in which Obi Wan Kenobi speaks to the Imperial Stormtrooper? Is that what you tried to reference? R2D2 and C3PO were called Droids, possibly a linguistic connection in George Lucas' mind to androids. Be that as it may, you clearly can't remember the sequence of the conversation. Rewatch the movie and pay attention so you can get it right, next time you swing less wildly.
Great Podcast. I think that they had some good ideas behind the 65 creed. I always wondered why the 30 degree shoulder, but found the answer in Ep. 083 - 6.5 Creedmoor | The REAL Story Uncovered on utube
It’s the heat generated and not the twist that burns out the barrels! In my short 60+ years I have found that the stainless carbon rap barrels last longer because they dissipate heat faster and keeps the barrel cooler long or more shots and I can get a few hundred more shots with the carbon barrels!
You are referencing the M85 with exposed hammer? Yes, you could port it or thread the barrel to take a muzzle brake. That is more versatile, allowing you to just cap it with a threaded end cap, screw on the brake or a suppressor.
Having hunted over 60+ years as well as reloading and collecting rifles I have bought 6.5 for my sons when they first started hunting and now they use 28 Noslers and 375 H&H and 300 win mags. I have never owned a 6.5 because I want something I can hunt deer, elk and bears and I have seen more then most how the 6.5 works and can say for deer it’s one of the best but for elk and bears it falls far short of needed energy and mass for ethical shots on the largest game! You are short changing your responsibility to the game animal by going with too small of a cartridge!
Oh BS 🤣🤣 that 264 bullet has plenty of energy for anything in north America. Of course a 300 or 375 is better but no need to get all holy and religious about it.
@@MR-bp3inthen take it on an grizzly bear hunt or even better how many hunters do you know or hear that take it on a grizzly hunt in any of the states 🤔😳 one if my sons lives in Wyoming and us around a well known hunter and he said that is the reason he takes a 300 win mag on elk hunts it’s not for the elk it’s fir the bears! You just need to get out a little more there Lad and maybe you might learn something before you become a grizzly’s lunch and learn the hard way😳
Well as Rush said-> "It's not bragging if it's true" Too many low-info's speak out of limited knowkedge for not "Having ears that hear- to gain eyes that see"...! Learning need never end = making it interesting & fun...!
@edwardabrams4972 Heck of a dilemma huh...! Well truth is you can only shoot one at a time with long, well practiced excellent prescision...! The most dangerous man in a gunfight is the guy that shoots only one gun with extreme proffient consistent accuracy-[not that you can't have more] -> thinking of Bob Munden = 2 accurate shots in 2/10ths of a second...! ie = Imagine going into a gun fight or facing down a deadly charge by dangerous game like a Grizzly, Lion, Tiger, Cape Buff, Hippo, Leopard-> who'd you want beside you in that fray or in combat: 1) the joker with dozens of guns not married to one in consistent proven ability, OR 2) the guy that is seriously capable wth one well experienced weapon, 3) then again in competition shooting its the same with who wins consistently = knows that gun at a high intimate level, Certainly one should have various types of units to use even in Africa: tho when facing things that'll kill you ery unpleasantly be best to have one intimate gun & a man beside you wed to one main gun = to consistently walk away when it really counts-! [Patterson's borrowed rifle scene 0oops in "The Ghost & The Darkness"] The same for War = where one Soldier is issued one gun he must "marry" & know on intimate terms and kept in A1 working condition- tho still trained to run many types...! *Guess my complaint with some "gun-nuts" is they obtain so many guns they never gain serious proficiency with one rifle, shotgun +/or pistol(many I know are divorced + had to sell'em all)...! Certainly should have more for various purposes, fun, collecting, investments: - but like too many girlfriends instead of one consistently trusted wife = life will become a chaotic nightmare when things get tuff...lol
Hey Ron, What about the SPCE bullets? Theres one thing i keep back , is trhere any relation with using spce and barrel life reduction, or damage ? GREETINGS from Poland Marek
It's a good topic. It's not that a Creedmoor is a bad round. Apples and apples 20 plus years ago was the .260 rem!! Marketing is everything! Fan boys are attached to a phone and the internet. New products are talked about and old ones aren't. They are both pretty much .308 win based. Creedmoor has a bigger fan because it was easier to find and every company jumped on it but the .260 never had the same way to have "fan boys". THIS IS MY WORDS! When it the first Creedmoor came out I was like just another gimmick and something that is going to go by the wayside. The marketing and the fan boys have proven me wrong. The number of companies that jumped on this band wagon was amazing!
Anyone shooting an elk at 700 yards is not an ethical hunter, they are just out looking for "glory", and they won't mention the one that ran off bleeding, and got taken by coyotes, or vultures...
So true and we just need to keep putting this out there so all these wannabe snipers realize we are hunters not some stupid target shooter trying to see how far we can fling a hunk of lead out there!
I'm sorry, but, If I can get stable in favorable weather conditions, 700 yards is basically a chip shot on elk vitals. Just because you can't doesn't mean that there aren't some that can. I would much rather study an elk at distance, read the wind, get good range, build a position and take my time than try to get too close, bump an elk and take a hurried shot from a bad shooting position while it's trying to beat feat to the timber. There is such a thing as too far for anyone, but 700 yards isn't it.
In Africa you will get your arse kicked all the way back to thr US of A Just remember game belongs to the land owner not Uncle Sam you draw blood you pay trofee price
@@biggs8729, yeah except your target isnt inanimate and can move during time of flight. There is nooooo such thing as an ethical shot at 700 yd shot.
are you sure Ron I could swear you missed one or two of them🤔😳😂 I have watch your career over the years and have collected or worse sold more rifles then I care ti remember too but somebody’s got to take car of all those homeless rifles🤣
Before you roast an English teacher and experienced published writer, be careful which dialect you use. Hahaha, choose your words carefully. Thank you Mr Spomer for sharing your knowledge
This is how I deal with the 6.5 CM boys. Understand, I own 2 rifles in 6.5 CM. I do not hunt with them, paper punchers for me. I hunt with a 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser, lovely Tikka T3 wood stock, 1-8 twist barrel. So, if and when somebody asks, "what are you using today? " I reply a 6.5X55 Sweed. Get the deer in the headlights look, most of the time. 95% of the people I talk to, don't know what the #*÷> it is.😅 5% that do, give me a 😁 grin.
.260 rem is absolutely useless, just like 6.5 creedmore is. I hate to say it, but at least the 6.5 creed cycles thru a shorter action, making it a bit more useful. You’re just the same as the 6.5 creed fanbois- stuck on a dumb, VASTLY OVERHYPED, mostly useless for hunting cartridge
@@AWareWolf9Wow pretty strong statement and a pretty ignorant one at that. I have a 260 and a 6.5 and other rifles from 22’s to 338 Lapua. The Swedes figured out about 110 years ago that the 6.5 was the sweet spot for terminal ballistics, velocity and recoil. Always has, always will be. You can shit in one hand and wish with the other, but it still won’t change anything.
Who throws away an old weapon because it's an old weapon. Ya it is a fast twist. I use the ELD-X 200gr . I have old 1923 shot guns just because people wanted to give away old weapons.
I have never cared for the high shoulder shot. I know it works we have many examples of it working, I just do not like the amount of meat it seems to ruin. Hitting all that bone in the spine seems to create more blood shot meat on both front shoulders and the backstraps. Adjusting for the position of the animal of course I tend to follow right up the center of the front leg settling about four to five inches above were the leg meets the body. If you look at a deer skeleton you will see this triangle shape made from the front leg bones. Placing a bullet here gets away from all heavy bones with only ribs, muscle, lungs, and heart to contend with. The best part of this shot placement in my opinion is shooter error forgiveness. Now of course we should only be taking shots we are sure of, but buck fever has gotten me once or twice and animals don't always stay still for the shot. Depending on the size of the animal I have anywhere from a 5in to 12+in "elk, moose" circle that at least gets me both lungs, and no animal I've ever hunted last very long if they can't breathe.
I have a question for you to cover…Why and how did Winchester come up with a .277 diameter bullet for the 270Win when there were 7 and 6.5mm bullets available to use?
In 1925 Winchester engineers took the diameter of the .30-06 which is 0.308". Then they multiplied 0.308 by 90% and they got 0.277", which became the bullet diameter of the new .270 Winchester cartridge
I don't own a 6.5 CM. I don't intend to ever own a 6.5 CM. HOWEVER... My brother lives on 100 wooded acres in GA and wants to buy a new rifle to hunt deer on his property. He has some disability due to a 12-ft fall he had some years ago, and recoil is an issue for him. If .243 Win is good for deer at 50-300 yards, then 6.5 CM is good, too. ...𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐝, including 6.5 CM in "Best Rifle Cartridges for Elk Hunting of 2024" or "The 6 Best Rifle Cartridges for Moose Hunting" (both published by Field & Stream) is nonsense.
You are spot on🙌 60+ years of hunting and collecting and reloading just about every cartridge ever made and hunted with it to and the 6.5 creed is not even in the top 20 cartridges for moose or elk! But you will always have these young and dumb hunters snd writes who thing that shooting at 1,000 yards is hunting and shooting tiny bullets at big game is manly so what’s a guy to do but let them learn the hard way🤔😳 what do us old guys know 😱
I had to watch this video on the “Title”, alone! I despise the 6.5 Creedmoor. It has no room for improvements, bullets sizes, powder charges, etc. .260 Rem is way more versatile!
.260 Rem has been dying a slow death for years and will soon not be available from any manufacturers, only custom built rifles. The 6.5 Swed is in the same boat as the 260 Rem but further along on its death spiral. Both are fine, capable cartridges but people aren’t buying new rifles in these cartridges in high enough numbers to keep them relevant.
I suspect you're right because manufacturing is dependent on demand. Cartridges don't die because they're poor performers so much as they're not the "shiny new thing of the month." Many little things, including fashion, group think, myths and misconceptions contribute to cartridge obsolescence.
Not saying it's right, but I know a lot of mooses have been taken with a 223. U know people want to be a ganster so they buy a ar, Instead of a 30-06 bar
Sorry Ron but I have a confession to make it took me awhile but I did eventually pick my wife but it took almost 20 years to decide🤔😳😱 and that was because my rifle was only good in the range and not in the bedroom🤔😳😂
I feel like 270win had gotten some of the same treatment as the Creedmoor... Some of its fans are ridiculous. 270win is a great cartridge... But too talk as if it's a RUM or a 378 WBY derivative (30, 338)... It is not. It's a fantastic deer & antelope cartridge to any "ethical" distance
Practice, practice, practice, I still have not put my 6.5 together because it took so long to get my Uintah Precision 10 Upper 308 it extended range and found that I did not need to buy the 6.5 creedmore. I do want to add a Uintah Precision bolt on my 6.5 if i ever put it together and test the Areo precession 6.5 with CMMG parts. Damm barrels is twice the price on the 6.5 with a semi-auto barrel that sit's in a box.
I don’t understand the love for 6.5cm. A 6.5cm 143gr 2700fps projectile is inferior to a 308win 150gr 2900fps projectile at 99% of ranges people take game at.
I don't even get what the big deal is about the 6.5 creedmoor and why it's hated so... I have one and it's a fantastic cartridge out to a thousand yards, it's like child's Play to hit a 14 inch round steel Target. I don't hunt so I can't speak on what it can kill out to those distances.
Tell me about it😳 but we all have that one cartridge that we dearly love and try to make everyone convert to it do I guess we will give them a free pass just one more time because we all know ours is the greatest 🤔😳😂
timestamp 36.30 I told my wife before we married that I had multiple lovers and that was NOT going to change ... they all had either 6 or 12 strings .... or multiple keys. I still am a musician and unlike too many of my ilk that is the closest I EVER came to being unfaithful to her. Guns have come into that catagory as well since then but they are beside the bed and she is in it. Oh yeah she is pretty fond of hers as well, guns not instruments.
The video title made me lol
Just got back into reloading and a friend recommended your channel. Just subscribed 😂 cheers!
Also, should I anneal my 338 Lapua cases after every fire/resizing? Or every 2-3?
Needsmoor…
The key is consistency. Do the same thing every time you reload.
Me too! 🤠
My dyslexic ass read that as "the key is conspiracy"
Don't trust Big Ammo. Make your own😂
The more I watch your stuff...the more I like your methods.
Old guys rule, Ron
Thanks Kindsir, but I don't know if old guys rule so much as pick their shots based on what decades of experience have taught them. Hang in there, good sir!
You have chosen wisely and will be rewarded with free value able information! Us old guys are still alive for some reason and when we offer free info it’s a time to be all ears🤔😳🙌
The 6.5 Creedmoor has become the cartridge everyone likes to dump on. The inherent accuracy of the 6.5 Creedmoor has helped swing the pendulum away from velocity and energy toward accuracy and shot placement. Largely thanks to the 6.5 Creedmoor most gun manufacturers now offer rifles guaranteed to shoot sub moa.
Great content. Loving your channel.
I have been hunting for 40+ years. Mostly deer, pheasants, ducks, geese, elk, antelope and yotes.
What I have learned over those 40+ years is that a heart shot is a good kill shot but it's not the best.
I much prefer a double lung, through and through. Let me explain....
With a heart shot, you get rapid blood loss and the heart is no longer pumping blood. But you have the lung continuing to oxygenate the blood and muscles moving blood through the body. I've had whitetails run for miles with the heart shredded. Not often but it is maddening when it happens.
With a double lung, through and through, you get a sucking chest wound and 2 collapsed lungs. The lungs are no longer oxygenating the blood and regardless of the heart pumping blood, the blood doesn't have any oxygen in it to fuel muscles.
No oxygen = quick death.
Yes, both wounds are lethal. But you won't be tracking the double lunger for very far.
The only thing faster is a shock to the central nervous system. I.e. - brain or upper spine. Those can be difficult shots at ranges of 200 yds or more. The lung shot is a considerably larger target area.
For my money, I'll take the double lunger.
Hi again there, Ron.
After watching and enjoying this video in addition to your others, commenting here and there, I wanted to take just a moment to share with you, your first time viewers, and subscribers what a likable, pragmatic, and good natured communicator you are and present with your channel.
We folks who write in comments and questions to you are a very eclectic spattering of learned knowledge, from the very beginner in all genres firearms, to the seasoned and learned veteran.
You have decades of study and are truly a warehouse of retained knowledge in all things rifle and cartridge. Thank you for your demeanor and at times, patience. You know more than 99.99% of your audience, yet you reflect to your viewers a genuine happy-go-lucky friend to all who write in. Never boastful, you share your thoughts, insights, and display dignity to each of us and communicate extremely effectively.
Your sense of humor mixed in with sound and accurate advice is appreciated.
I would also like to give a plug on your new 7MM book. It is a great read and well researched. If one likes and appreciates all things 7MM, it is a must read to learn from, or if one is well versed in the calibers of Number 7, than a great fireside companion. Well thought out by addressing each cartridge in tiers of relative power, you also bring out the historical perspective on each cartridge as well as external ballistic characteristics, while offering subtle suggestions on your personal conclusions and reasons for selection. ‘Sorta fun how you inject human emotion into the descriptors of some of them.
So again Ron, KUDOS to you, and hope you always hunt safe and shoot straight as well.
Thank You.
Paul from Park Rapids, MN.
Paul, thank you for your kind and heartwarming sentiments. Here's wishing you joy afield in all your adventures!
Excellent commentary on the 6.5 Creedmoor and its popularity!
Ron is still the king.
What great encouragement! Your musings are oftentimes helpful to those of us who are enamored with the good cartridges of the past.
Great video Ron. The banter over the 6.5 Creedmoor reminds me of the banter between myself and my daughter over Taylor Swift and George Strait. I tell her that while Swift can sing King George doesn’t have to put on a show to get the job done because he just that much better. We have a ton of fun sniping each other over these singers. Take care.
Agreeing to disagree and being willing to consider the other's position without rancor and condemnation are two critical components of discourse largely missing from our culture.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Well said.
Swift is a billionaire, debate over...
On the single shot rifle, I think a 270 would be a fine choice, esp for the hand loader. It's been a while since I've used either of mine, but a Remington in 270 is the gun I've taken the most coyote with. Literally hundreds of them. A buddy of mine that is a prolific hand loader worked up a lighter load. He originally used the Berger Classic Hunter and switched to the Game King. Both were right around 2500 fps, 130 grain, can't remember the powder he used. It was quite mild. Then I'd use the full load of choice for hog or deer, though I have no doubt those lighter hand loads would do just fine within 250 yards. I'd feel a bit better with full loads for deer.
I am using 200gr ELD- X on all game(30-06, Elk, Deer) determine your powder and load. Usually don't need to increase powder load just use the factor loads, then customize your loads to the factory load.
I believe u
You have a real problem with communication.
Eldx is a target bullet. Thin jacket. Sorry that’s just the reality
I love that freedom bell that's really awesome. I like how the tone changes when you put your hand under it. Really enjoy your videos, very educational and entertaining. You sir, are a genius!
U mentioned all copper bullets. I was old fashioned and stubborn. Never had any use for them . Then i bought some that were on sale , just because they were a good deal. Use them deer season. WOW !!! I’m sold!!! U can teach an old dog . lol I talk about them a lot now . I even recommend them . They perform great.
I have that exact hat! I bought it ( i believe) in 1990! Yes there's some wear and tear!
Ron, I am going to have to go with the listener on the comment of, increased spin rate will increase the down range energy of the round, or at least the down range energy potential. Yes, you are correct that rotational energy can take away from the forward energy of the projectile. You are also correct that forward energy is lost at a higher rate than rotational energy. But what you don't say is that a higher velocity bullet will incur an exponential increase of wind resistance, so, a bullet traveling 3000 fps might loose 300 fps on it's way to the 100 yard line. The same bullet at 1/3 the forward velocity, so 1000 fps, will only loose 50 fps on the way to the 100 yard line. Thus, if both bullets were fired with the same cartridge pressure but one of them was spun at a much faster rate and a slower forward velocity, one of those bullets is going to carry it's energy with MUCH more efficiency down range. The problem then becomes, how to transfer that rotational energy into a game animal.
Obviously no one wants to hunt with a projectile velocity of 1000 fps, but what about stepping down from say a 1/10 twist .30 caliber at 3000 fps to a 1/6 twist .30 at 2700 fps? Hard to say how much energy advantage there is without a degree in physics, but there is something there.
Yeah, something there, but not much, in my opinion because, as you note, converting rotational energy into trauma is ?? I routinely see the petals of X-style bullets twisted to about 40-degrees. Expansion is usually at least 2X, so a .308" bullet expands to a 60-caliber for a bigger hole, but you might get just 3, perhaps 4 revolutions of that broadened, sharp edged bullet while passing through 18 inches of tissue. Lateral tearing on the perimeter of the wound channel seems minimal compared to the forward bullet path. I'm putting my money on penetration first, rotation a distant third, and I'm not eager to trade forward velocity and long range reach and minimal wind deflection for possible wounding potential from rotation. Now, if rotational energy can be converted into dispersion of a broken projectile (once inside the vitals,) that works. It's the varmint bullet. Deadly on deer IF you get it inside. But then you have the lead fragments thither and yon in the meat. Likely won't impact humans, but proven again and again to kill scavenging birds. I have had good fragmenting results with copper Hammer hunters (petals designed to break away) and a CPA bullet (same approach) out of Europe. I think some Badlands Precision and Cutting Edge bullets do this, too. Might be the ideal compromise. I may be testing a 3" twist 8.6 this summer and have more info on rotational impacts.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Hey Ron, thanks for the reply. My only argument is that there is a potential for increased down range energy in focusing the available energy in faster spinning bullets rather than forward velocity. It’s a concept that has not been deeply studied yet. The 8.6 Blackout developers have really been pushing the idea forward though, taking a zebra at about 300 yards with a slow moving bullet and relying heavily on twist rate and an extremely high expanding bullet to get it done. Deserves some more study.
In South Africa, PMP/Musgrave necked down the 303 British to 6mm (6mm Masgrave) they also rebarrel would 303 rifles to 6mm. PMP makes factory ammo and brass for it. Very similar ballistics to the 243 Win..
Ron, don't forget about the fan girls!
Sorry, Anna. I guess I haven't noticed the fan girls being quite as -- how shall I put this without offending anyone? -- unrealistically enthusiastic about the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Northwest territory is in canada, in the nortern part of canada at a similar latitude as Alaska there a three less populated regions called territorys, Yukon bordering alaska, Northwest territory in the middle and Nunavut as lots of islands going far north an east closer to Greenland
I like your informative Q&A vids!
I do ask that you consider a couple of options to make it easier for viewers.
1) Cut the hour long vids into two or three vids and release them on different days. It would make it easier for us to find specific topics and watch more often.
2) Add “chapter breaks/captions” at the bottom of the video, so we can find the question (s) we want to watch or re-find.
I find I dont watch regularly because of the video length and title topic, even tho there may be good info I shouldnt miss.
Thanks!
Good points Ron . You explain things very well . Thanks
You are welcome.
Hey Ron, the man asking about the recoil of his 7mm Rem Mag, if he has a synthetic stock, he might try what my old friend did with his rifle, & fill the stock with play sand from the box stores. It worked great for him.
P.S. this is from your Mar 19th podcast.
I have about 7-8 in the cartridge and on most of my rifles I put a break and a limb saver pad and it turns thst magnum into a nice sweet shooting rifle that you will enjoy a whole lot more my friend! I put breaks on most of my 60+ year rifle collection! When hunting you don’t notice the recoil much but in the range it sure can make range time much more pleasant.
I got kind of a chuckle when your correspondent went through all of the various "statistics" of cartridges and rifles, when that old .270 has taken so many types of game, in such quantity, over the years... Somehow, it seems that results, like a picture, are worth a thousand words ( or statistics 😉)!
Capstick is a really good read if you enjoy hunting on the “dark continent”, of Africa. I wholeheartedly recommend reading some Capstick, amazing man!
Yes, Capstick was an entertaining writer who told some engaging stories, but many PHs complain that he mostly retold THEiR stories, often placing himself in the hero's position. Regardless, the stories are exciting, often surprising, and well spun. Capstick's books have fueled many an African safari and should fuel many more.
The problem as Chapstick got older his mind started making him think that others hunts were his hunts and I think it’s not intentional because I have a very old friend of mine and I am old myself who does the same think! He was a great hunter and we just need to realize this when we read his books which I have had them all at one time before giving them as gifts
Suzie Capstick?
I 2nd “Charles’”, suggestion on scopes, reticle, FFP’s, SFP’s, M.O.A. vs. Mil, Duplex, Horus, BDC, LPVO’s, 1” vs. 30mm or 34mm & bigger, German vs Japanese Glass, etc.
I was totally against the 6.5 creedmoor until I picked one up in the Bergara wilderness HMR what's a 26 inch barrel .25 inch groups at 100 yards and half inch group at 200 yards with Hornady eldm match 140 grain!!!
I got to see a shock wave damage from my son’s 243 at 85 yards on a whitetail doe. In processing the doe, we found the backbone was broken by the shockwave but the backstrap was not damaged.
Both lungs were taken out, and the shot was about half way up the body and behind the shoulder.
There is no controversy about the damage done by the large temporary cavity of a high-speed bullet hitting tissue. The are arguments, though of exactly how the animal is killed. Some have argued that the "hydrostatic shock" from those bullets will cause brain damage and instant death, even if the animal is shot in the leg. Others argue that the shock just stuns the animal and normal blood loss is what actually kills it. I tend to lean towards the "stunned" idea, since often animals seem to recover and run after initially collapsing from being hit.
I've shot 3 bucks, broadside between 75y and 125y with 90gr .243.
All 3 dropped in there tracks instantly. Upon dressing, the round went thru
close side of rib cage and stuck in opposite rib cage. Lungs and some internals were a liquefied mess.@@jfess1911
FBI studies show that (in humans) a projectile traveling at 2200 fps causes tissues to expand past their elasticity to the point it tears and cannot return to normal, which causes shock and almost instantaneous death.
I believe that's what they call hydrostatic shock.
ruclips.net/video/T6kUvi72s0Y/видео.htmlsi=RwX-kse_l2L0DvrS around the 12:47 mark
You must be dreaming , a 243 is an old cartridge and won’t take anything ! 😂 A 6.5 Crapmore is the only cartridge that can take an animal . No other cartridge is any good for hunting ! 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣………
@@thomasdaum1927 6.5 Crapmore - brilliant 😅. Thanks for making me spit my whiskey here in the UK.
you need to look at the 338 Norma mag...they are lookiing at it for the replacement of the M240 with much more energy at a 4000lb energy level to be between the 6.8 and the 50 bmg for anti vehicle and other use....shorter action and with soft point bullets it would be a serious big game cartricge ...idk where that will go.
I get a kick about all the hype on what is better. Where I hunt and for what I hunt a 30-30, 32 Special, 303 Savage or the 35 Rem will do just fine. I used a 300 Savage in case I might want to shoot at 200/250 yards. Today I use a 6.5x55 Swede. It isn't better for what I do, It's just I like the cartridge. There are better cartridges for other purposes that will serve purposes other than mine and those people will have lots of choices that will do without one being better than the other. Its always fun to defend your favorite cartridge. I remember as a kid at the hunting camp listening to the old timers explaining to each other why their cartridge is better. LOL Availability could certainly make a cartridge better than the other or the type of firearm available for the cartridge and on and on..........
The 30 Newton is almost a dead ringer for the 300 PRC. Look up the dimensions on those two.
I just looked that up holy mackerel. 1913 the 300 win mag would have been a lead balloon if Remington or savage were making good bolt guns for that. And people say the 264 win mag was ahead of it’s time.
Impact can also disrupt nerve signals. A hard fall impacting the chest cavity can stop the heart.
I have only been deer, elk, pronghorn, and Ibex with muzzle-loader for the past 10. We have a draw in New Mexico so it is hard to get a regular rifle draw. I just got my must belated military disability because I never applied. I was in the Air Force and didn't apply because I was on the NASA sounding rocket program after AF and was not challenged to work hard except on the Engineering part. I could have been 70 percent for the past 30 years. Aim High.
Was that supposed to be informative in English?
Yes, most people do not know or look up acronyms or what field to look them up in so they don't really care for them sorry.
@@paulbarela6548 ... Your claim rings utterly hollow. Gibberish.
It's great what you do
For 6.5 Fanboys... To me, they're just people who were never exposed to the 6.5 Swede... Either that or they're the ones that can't help but excitedly/rapidly cycle the bolt of a short action. ;)
I tend to be thankful for the fanboys personally. It has benefited the caliber by expanding bullet options for the sibling cartridges. As for the outrageous claims... Even if they were true, just because you "can" do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. You CAN potentially kill a deer with a 22LR, doesn't mean you should try to do so.
Same can be said about taking a shot passed 300yrds. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. That being said, 147g up to 400yrds has more than enough energy to take down anything on this side of the pond. Going for Cape Buffalo are we ?
I don't even own a 6.5cm, comments like yours make me laugh. Haters gonna hate, amazing how people think higher caliber suddenly unlocks better ability to shoot....Crazy 😅
@@Hanibul_Lecktor You misunderstand. I don't have hate for the round, just the nonsensical adherence by many who were oblivious to it already essentially existing. In actuality, I had already got reloading dies for it expecting to acquire one to use at the range prolonging the barrel life of my older custom 6.5Swede, but fate provided a 6.5PRC before for a steal. I'll still get a heavy barrel 6.5CM eventually. I do also not really put much credence in Short vs Long Action differences as either work equally well in the majority of situations.
Essentially the .260 Rem more or less mirrored the 6.5Swe. Then the 6.5CM tried to keep the short action but restore the seating options of the 6.5Swe. That's a long way to go to do a full 360. Across the pond, many are running the Swede art equal pressures to the CM to fantastic results. And besides, I would prefer a 6.5BJAI over any of the three. Will end up being old reliable's rebarrel eventually. :)
Hey Ron , I don’t drink any more - I don’t drink any less !……. 😂😂😂😂. Thanks for all your hard work for us !…….
G'day Ron . NSW = New South Wales .. eastern state , the 1st colony
Hi Paul, we tend to be geographically challenged in the States. Enjoyed my visits to Sydney in the State of NSW. Cheers.
Star-line brass should have the 40-82 Winchester. Taylors firearms might get you there, but your in South America You might have ITAR problems, black hills can get some of that stuff.
I hit my 1st milkjug at 1 mile with a 338 LM. the rifle had a fast for caliber 1:8 twist with straight bartlein barrel.. it was great... but I sold it and got a custom 6.5 CM (28" straight kieger 1:7)
I did this for less concussion, cost, and recoil.
I don't hunt and I recognize most of your audience are hunters, so my info doesn't speak to 6.5 CM hunter fan bois... but hell, for lower recoil, lower concussion, higher precision... yup, I'm 6.5 CM fan boi
I bought a 6.5-300 Weatherby just so I could bag on the 6.5 CM.
I just got a 280ackley improved and I became a fanboy of it… traded in my 6.5CM.
Probably best on 3006 parent case
Great choice!
Much cooler fan boy now!
LOL
That is also my favorite variation of the 30-06 case. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a good cartridge for people who are recoil sensitive or have no need for a higher-power cartridge, but the 280AI definitely has more oomph.
Hi Ron, I have a few questions/comments, starting off, as a hunter in Arizona, the chance of going after coues deer and pronghorn is relevant and a personal dream of mine. I have a .308 and a 30-06. I wonder if I should get a 6mm creedmore, a 6.5 PRC, or any of these new, flat shooting cartridges. Side note: The 300 AAC Blackout is dangerously underrated. My brother took his first javelina with it and that bullet went through its hind left and out the lungs while the boar was quartering. And finally, I have a AR-15 chambered in 300 OSSM and I have a few live rounds and some brass but the brass is hard to come by and I'm thinking about rechambering the rifle. Any cartridge recommendations? I already have a .223, 300 BLK, and a 458 Socom.
.270 Winchester lol
Best " wax" ive found for waterproofing is " Sno-Seal". Running through swamps all summer in my leather boots waterproof. Works great on all leather. Belts, rifle slings. Rub it on thick & warm the leather til no more will soak in & your good to go. I either hang my boots over the woodstove or put em in a plastic bag in the sun. Works great on the knees/ cuffs of Carhart snowsuits too where your kneeling down all the time on the trapline.
6.5 cm creedmoore is best matched with 140,000 grain bullets. As these weigh 20 pounds each a recoil pad might be advised.
Hey Ron, it has been a while since you have talked about the 338 RPM, i was wondering if you could do a cartridge review on the .338 RPM versus the 338 Win Mag? There is now load dates for the 338 RPM.
Great Job as Always
I’m new to rifle shooting/hunting. Living in ohio where straightwalled cartridges are all that’s allowed. I haven’t heard you say anything about Henry’s 360 and was wandering what you thought about it for deer hunting 200 yards and under.
For Arturo in Paraguay, 40-82 can be reformed (& trimmed) from 45-90 brass - which has been available from Starline, Graf & Sons, Ten-X, and a couple other places. A 408 mold might require a custom maker such as Arsenal molds. Mike Venturino put together a good book on loading and shooting those "oldie but goodie" cartridges. Don't recall the title right now. And, of course, you can never go wrong with a case full of black powder. Suggest a google search to find out who he can get stuff through.
For a falling block, with those parameters, pretty much anything 24 cal and above would work. My vote (sorry fan boy haters) for that application would be 6.5x55 Swede, or the 6.5 "C" - which is essentially a short action 6.5x55. With a fast twist, they are capable of up to 160 grain bullets, and the Europeans use it on everything up to and including moose.
As for calibers and ranges, bullet placement is, and always has been, the key. Many moons ago, when I had young eyes, we would hunt coyotes with a 22LR at ranges up to 150 yards. When we got older and started to read the gurus, we kept reading that the 22LR was "too small" for coyotes at any range. While we knew those statements weren't true, those magazines stimulated our growth into other calibers and etc. etc. etc. Good times .......
P.S. - Candle wax not a good choice. It will crack and break off. Haven't tried it, but beeswax should be a better choice. Traditionally they used a "oiled" wax, but that stuff was always slightly "sticky". Otherwise, just periodic cleaning with saddle soap and a yearly treatment of a "leather rejuvenater" should keep it going almost forever.
God bless you Ron!
How to handle 6.5 Creedmoor fan boys? Ron I suggest they upgrade to the .308 Creedmoor lol. Launches heavier bullets and has alot more power. Viable 500 yard Elk stopping power by the numbers with 178 and 200 grain bullets according to 4DOF. A touch over 1500 ft pounds @500 yards.
Use an English dictionary to look up "alot" as written in your comment.
@@JW...-oj5iwmove along these aren’t the Drodes your looking for know it all😳
@@edwardabrams4972 ... How to deal with someone as handicapped as you? "Drodes"??? Are you trying to refer to Star Wars episode 4, A New Hope? The scene in which Obi Wan Kenobi speaks to the Imperial Stormtrooper? Is that what you tried to reference? R2D2 and C3PO were called Droids, possibly a linguistic connection in George Lucas' mind to androids. Be that as it may, you clearly can't remember the sequence of the conversation. Rewatch the movie and pay attention so you can get it right, next time you swing less wildly.
Great Podcast. I think that they had some good ideas behind the 65 creed. I always wondered why the 30 degree shoulder, but found the answer in Ep. 083 - 6.5 Creedmoor | The REAL Story Uncovered on utube
Need to hear more about this not flinging copper and lead together thru your slinger. Im suspect of this.
I wish there was more modern 6.5x55 options...
Hey Ron,will a faster twist barrel wear out faster than a slower twist barrel at the same velocity?
It’s the heat generated and not the twist that burns out the barrels! In my short 60+ years I have found that the stainless carbon rap barrels last longer because they dissipate heat faster and keeps the barrel cooler long or more shots and I can get a few hundred more shots with the carbon barrels!
I experienced the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser 35 years ago and so I have no need for the 6.5 creedmore. Ballistics are basically the same.
Browning makes a fine falling block in many calibers. My 7mm REM Mag is a bit much. I am considering having it Magna - ported. What do you think?
You are referencing the M85 with exposed hammer? Yes, you could port it or thread the barrel to take a muzzle brake. That is more versatile, allowing you to just cap it with a threaded end cap, screw on the brake or a suppressor.
Having hunted over 60+ years as well as reloading and collecting rifles I have bought 6.5 for my sons when they first started hunting and now they use 28 Noslers and 375 H&H and 300 win mags. I have never owned a 6.5 because I want something I can hunt deer, elk and bears and I have seen more then most how the 6.5 works and can say for deer it’s one of the best but for elk and bears it falls far short of needed energy and mass for ethical shots on the largest game! You are short changing your responsibility to the game animal by going with too small of a cartridge!
Oh BS 🤣🤣 that 264 bullet has plenty of energy for anything in north America. Of course a 300 or 375 is better but no need to get all holy and religious about it.
@@MR-bp3inthen take it on an grizzly bear hunt or even better how many hunters do you know or hear that take it on a grizzly hunt in any of the states 🤔😳 one if my sons lives in Wyoming and us around a well known hunter and he said that is the reason he takes a 300 win mag on elk hunts it’s not for the elk it’s fir the bears! You just need to get out a little more there Lad and maybe you might learn something before you become a grizzly’s lunch and learn the hard way😳
Well as Rush said-> "It's not bragging if it's true"
Too many low-info's speak out of limited knowkedge for not "Having ears that hear- to gain eyes that see"...!
Learning need never end = making it interesting & fun...!
There is only one thing I need more then more knowledge and that’s another rifle 😳😂
@edwardabrams4972
Heck of a dilemma huh...!
Well truth is you can only shoot one at a time with long, well practiced excellent prescision...!
The most dangerous man in a gunfight is the guy that shoots only one gun with extreme proffient consistent accuracy-[not that you can't have more] -> thinking of Bob Munden = 2 accurate shots in 2/10ths of a second...!
ie = Imagine going into a gun fight or facing down a deadly charge by dangerous game like a Grizzly, Lion, Tiger, Cape Buff, Hippo, Leopard-> who'd you want beside you in that fray or in combat:
1) the joker with dozens of guns not married to one in consistent proven ability,
OR
2) the guy that is seriously capable wth one well experienced weapon,
3) then again in competition shooting its the same with who wins consistently = knows that gun at a high intimate level,
Certainly one should have various types of units to use even in Africa: tho when facing things that'll kill you ery unpleasantly be best to have one intimate gun & a man beside you wed to one main gun = to consistently walk away when it really counts-!
[Patterson's borrowed rifle scene 0oops in
"The Ghost & The Darkness"]
The same for War = where one Soldier is issued one gun he must "marry" & know on intimate terms and kept in A1 working condition- tho still trained to run many types...!
*Guess my complaint with some "gun-nuts" is they obtain so many guns they never gain serious proficiency with one rifle, shotgun +/or pistol(many I know are divorced + had to sell'em all)...!
Certainly should have more for various purposes, fun, collecting, investments:
- but like too many girlfriends instead of one consistently trusted wife = life will become a chaotic nightmare when things get tuff...lol
I’m gonna get a 6.5c as soon as that round has harvested as much game and fur as a .270 Win.
Hey Ron, What about the SPCE bullets? Theres one thing i keep back , is trhere any relation with using spce and barrel life reduction, or damage ? GREETINGS from Poland
Marek
It's a good topic. It's not that a Creedmoor is a bad round. Apples and apples 20 plus years ago was the .260 rem!! Marketing is everything! Fan boys are attached to a phone and the internet. New products are talked about and old ones aren't. They are both pretty much .308 win based. Creedmoor has a bigger fan because it was easier to find and every company jumped on it but the .260 never had the same way to have "fan boys". THIS IS MY WORDS! When it the first Creedmoor came out I was like just another gimmick and something that is going to go by the wayside. The marketing and the fan boys have proven me wrong. The number of companies that jumped on this band wagon was amazing!
Anyone shooting an elk at 700 yards is not an ethical hunter, they are just out looking for "glory", and they won't mention the one that ran off bleeding, and got taken by coyotes, or vultures...
So true and we just need to keep putting this out there so all these wannabe snipers realize we are hunters not some stupid target shooter trying to see how far we can fling a hunk of lead out there!
You can take elk that far but you need to know how to shoot 1500 yards on target and hit everytime where ur aiming
I'm sorry, but, If I can get stable in favorable weather conditions, 700 yards is basically a chip shot on elk vitals. Just because you can't doesn't mean that there aren't some that can. I would much rather study an elk at distance, read the wind, get good range, build a position and take my time than try to get too close, bump an elk and take a hurried shot from a bad shooting position while it's trying to beat feat to the timber. There is such a thing as too far for anyone, but 700 yards isn't it.
In Africa you will get your arse kicked all the way back to thr US of A Just remember game belongs to the land owner not Uncle Sam you draw blood you pay trofee price
@@biggs8729, yeah except your target isnt inanimate and can move during time of flight. There is nooooo such thing as an ethical shot at 700 yd shot.
NSW is the abbreviation for New South Wales and for godssakes the proper pronunciation of SMLE is "SMELLY".
"6.5 needmore" official gun sponsor of Caitlin Jenner.
Ok boomer
I knew it was a girly cartridge but that is funny🤔😳😱
Hey Ron can you give us a roughy list of all the calibres you own?
Gavin, I don't own so much as circulate. I've never enjoyed collecting and having to manage heaps of stuff, so I work with a rifle/cartridge for a time, then move on to something else, keeping the safe relatively uncluttered. Over the years I've worked with and/or hunted with 14/222, 17 HMR, 17 WSM, 17 Rem Fireball, 5mm Rem., 204 Ruger, 22 Short, Long, Long Rifle, 22 Win Mag, 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, 222 Rem., 218 Bee, 223 Rem., 5.56 NATO, 22-250, 22-250 AI, 220 Swift, 223 WSSM, 243 Win, 6mm Rem., 240 Wby Mag., 243 WSSM, 250 Savage, 257 Rbts., 25 WSSM, 25-06 Rem., 257 Wby., 6.5 Grendel, 260 Rem., 6.5-284, 6.5-06, 6.5-280 AI, 6.5 Rem Mag., 264 Win. Mag., 6.8 SPC, 270 Win, 270 WSM, 270 Wby., 7mm-08 Rem., 7x57 Mauser, 284 Win, 280 Rem., 280 AI, 7mm SAUM, 7 WSM, 7 Rem Mag, 7 Wby Mag, 7mm STW, 7 RUM, 300 BLK, 30-30, 308 Win, 30-40 Krag., 30-06, 300 H&H, 300 SAUM, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, 300 Wby, 30-378 Wby., 325 WSM, 338 Federal, 338 Win Mag., 338 Lapua Mag., 348 Win., 357 Mag., 35 Rem., 356 Win, 358 Win, 350 Rem Mag, 9.3x74R, 9.3x62, 375 H&H Mag., 375 Ruger, 375 Wby, 405 Win., 450/400 N.E., 416 Rigby, 416 Rem Mag, 44-40, 44 Rem Mag., 444 Marlin, 45 Colt, 450 Busmaster, 45-70 Govt., 450 N.E., 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott, 470 N. E., 505 Gibbs, 50 BMG and misc. handgun rounds. And all the shotgun gauges plus .410, of course. Can't imagine keeping all of those under lock and key!
are you sure Ron I could swear you missed one or two of them🤔😳😂 I have watch your career over the years and have collected or worse sold more rifles then I care ti remember too but somebody’s got to take car of all those homeless rifles🤣
I might be off, but I'm pretty sure I saw this one before.
Me too !
Before you roast an English teacher and experienced published writer, be careful which dialect you use. Hahaha, choose your words carefully. Thank you Mr Spomer for sharing your knowledge
This is how I deal with the 6.5 CM boys. Understand, I own 2 rifles in 6.5 CM. I do not hunt with them, paper punchers for me. I hunt with a 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser, lovely Tikka T3 wood stock, 1-8 twist barrel. So, if and when somebody asks, "what are you using today? " I reply a 6.5X55 Sweed. Get the deer in the headlights look, most of the time. 95% of the people I talk to, don't know what the #*÷> it is.😅
5% that do, give me a 😁 grin.
260 Remington
260 Remington os my go to 2 bolt guns and 1 high end ar10
.260 rem is absolutely useless, just like 6.5 creedmore is. I hate to say it, but at least the 6.5 creed cycles thru a shorter action, making it a bit more useful.
You’re just the same as the 6.5 creed fanbois- stuck on a dumb, VASTLY OVERHYPED, mostly useless for hunting cartridge
@@AWareWolf9Wow pretty strong statement and a pretty ignorant one at that. I have a 260 and a 6.5 and other rifles from 22’s to 338 Lapua. The Swedes figured out about 110 years ago that the 6.5 was the sweet spot for terminal ballistics, velocity and recoil. Always has, always will be. You can shit in one hand and wish with the other, but it still won’t change anything.
Who throws away an old weapon because it's an old weapon. Ya it is a fast twist. I use the ELD-X 200gr . I have old 1923 shot guns just because people wanted to give away old weapons.
Everyone always forgets about Newton. I would love to see Ron do a video just on him!
I rebarreled a 243 win in a 8 in 1 twist and it shoots bug holes
You are a national treasure.
I have never cared for the high shoulder shot. I know it works we have many examples of it working, I just do not like the amount of meat it seems to ruin. Hitting all that bone in the spine seems to create more blood shot meat on both front shoulders and the backstraps. Adjusting for the position of the animal of course I tend to follow right up the center of the front leg settling about four to five inches above were the leg meets the body. If you look at a deer skeleton you will see this triangle shape made from the front leg bones. Placing a bullet here gets away from all heavy bones with only ribs, muscle, lungs, and heart to contend with. The best part of this shot placement in my opinion is shooter error forgiveness. Now of course we should only be taking shots we are sure of, but buck fever has gotten me once or twice and animals don't always stay still for the shot. Depending on the size of the animal I have anywhere from a 5in to 12+in "elk, moose" circle that at least gets me both lungs, and no animal I've ever hunted last very long if they can't breathe.
Australia has six states. NSW= New South Wales, one of those states.
I have a question for you to cover…Why and how did Winchester come up with a .277 diameter bullet for the 270Win when there were 7 and 6.5mm bullets available to use?
Unique. Lol. My tikka t3 270 most accurate gun ever
I hope that someone actually knows the reason, because the only plausible explanation I have heard is: "it probably involved alcohol".
@jfess1911 that's best explanation for a 270 guy who a 6er deep that had to bring work home and still going strong
In 1925 Winchester engineers took the diameter of the .30-06 which is 0.308". Then they multiplied 0.308 by 90% and they got 0.277", which became the bullet diameter of the new .270 Winchester cartridge
@leoncolwin8645 I didn't think that would work but it did , also , subtracting 10% from .308 works as well .
I don't own a 6.5 CM. I don't intend to ever own a 6.5 CM. HOWEVER...
My brother lives on 100 wooded acres in GA and wants to buy a new rifle to hunt deer on his property. He has some disability due to a 12-ft fall he had some years ago, and recoil is an issue for him. If .243 Win is good for deer at 50-300 yards, then 6.5 CM is good, too.
...𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐝, including 6.5 CM in "Best Rifle Cartridges for Elk Hunting of 2024" or "The 6 Best Rifle Cartridges for Moose Hunting" (both published by Field & Stream) is nonsense.
You are spot on🙌 60+ years of hunting and collecting and reloading just about every cartridge ever made and hunted with it to and the 6.5 creed is not even in the top 20 cartridges for moose or elk! But you will always have these young and dumb hunters snd writes who thing that shooting at 1,000 yards is hunting and shooting tiny bullets at big game is manly so what’s a guy to do but let them learn the hard way🤔😳 what do us old guys know 😱
As a 22 250 and 3030 guy i understand this argument
That was so fune!😂🤙
They can't use your name or image in marketing without your agreement. Pretty easy litigation and could make you a couple of dollars.
People get bent out of shape over the stupidest stuff. Pick a caliber based on your own needs and don't worry about what others choose to shoot.
12 lb bench rest rifle wouldn't make you happy Ron? so my 25.5 lb bench rest is right out i guess 😂
I had to watch this video on the “Title”, alone! I despise the 6.5 Creedmoor. It has no room for improvements, bullets sizes, powder charges, etc. .260 Rem is way more versatile!
thanks
.260 Rem has been dying a slow death for years and will soon not be available from any manufacturers, only custom built rifles.
The 6.5 Swed is in the same boat as the 260 Rem but further along on its death spiral.
Both are fine, capable cartridges but people aren’t buying new rifles in these cartridges in high enough numbers to keep them relevant.
I suspect you're right because manufacturing is dependent on demand. Cartridges don't die because they're poor performers so much as they're not the "shiny new thing of the month." Many little things, including fashion, group think, myths and misconceptions contribute to cartridge obsolescence.
I’m having deja vu.
Testing, one, two three....
Is this a reupload?
Not saying it's right, but I know a lot of mooses have been taken with a 223. U know people want to be a ganster so they buy a ar, Instead of a 30-06 bar
Sorry Ron but I have a confession to make it took me awhile but I did eventually pick my wife but it took almost 20 years to decide🤔😳😱 and that was because my rifle was only good in the range and not in the bedroom🤔😳😂
I feel like 270win had gotten some of the same treatment as the Creedmoor... Some of its fans are ridiculous.
270win is a great cartridge... But too talk as if it's a RUM or a 378 WBY derivative (30, 338)... It is not. It's a fantastic deer & antelope cartridge to any "ethical" distance
303 savage was the first
Practice, practice, practice, I still have not put my 6.5 together because it took so long to get my Uintah Precision 10 Upper 308 it extended range and found that I did not need to buy the 6.5 creedmore. I do want to add a Uintah Precision bolt on my 6.5 if i ever put it together and test the Areo precession 6.5 with CMMG parts. Damm barrels is twice the price on the 6.5 with a semi-auto barrel that sit's in a box.
Good grief. Get an interpreter.
If yall enjoy the content please dont forget to hit that like and subscribe button if you havent already
I don’t understand the love for 6.5cm. A 6.5cm 143gr 2700fps projectile is inferior to a 308win 150gr 2900fps projectile at 99% of ranges people take game at.
I don't even get what the big deal is about the 6.5 creedmoor and why it's hated so... I have one and it's a fantastic cartridge out to a thousand yards, it's like child's Play to hit a 14 inch round steel Target. I don't hunt so I can't speak on what it can kill out to those distances.
How to handle the 6.5 creedmoor fanboys, " tell them not to extend the cartridge beyond the application!" but that applies to all firearms.
PRCircle jerks can be annoying as well..😅
Tell me about it😳 but we all have that one cartridge that we dearly love and try to make everyone convert to it do I guess we will give them a free pass just one more time because we all know ours is the greatest 🤔😳😂
The Term” 6.5 CR” only makes me puke!🤮
It’s funny because it makes me want to take a sh_t😱 and probably the 6.5 guys since most of them are full of shit🤣
260 rem
South west new south wales
timestamp 36.30 I told my wife before we married that I had multiple lovers and that was NOT going to change ... they all had either 6 or 12 strings .... or multiple keys. I still am a musician and unlike too many of my ilk that is the closest I EVER came to being unfaithful to her. Guns have come into that catagory as well since then but they are beside the bed and she is in it. Oh yeah she is pretty fond of hers as well, guns not instruments.
Share the love, Rod... but not too much, eh?