Eps 348: Defending My Stance
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast!
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
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Honestly I think you give the most unbiased feedback ive seen so far on YT. Whenever you make a claim/point you always have a valid reason for your opinion!
Thanks buller. I try. Our culture puts too much value in opinions and feelings when the rest of the universe runs on physical reality. Everyone is welcomed to their opinion and feelings, but it isn't smart to apply those to ballistics. Cheers.
Where are all of these bar flies coming from? Geez! Keep it up Ron, love your vids
Ron - Love your program. Listening to you brings me back to a better America.
Ron, I give you a rough time once in a while all in good fun, I am a 270 win. man, killed everything but dangerous game with that caliber, same for the Brit. 303., I shot the 308 a lot as a machine gun, but these days I am old, tried out the 6.5 creed, not bad, but I went back to the 243 win, 22-250 and 30-30 win., why? ground blind and the deer are so close I can almost hit them with a bat. I view the 7mm/8mm Mauser, Brit. 303, 308 and the like,..as grand old utility calibers, hardy, long barrel life, easy to find, ..etc. I think the art of agreeing to disagree , without hurt feelings needs to be brought back. enough said, Great Show.
Thanks Bobkat. I always enjoy your pokes at me!
Bobkat, Friend of mine uses a Tikka 270 every grizzly hunt & does just fine w it. However, i warned him it wasnt enough gun to stop a charging grizzly out to attack you. He laughed UNTIL he was returning from a sheep hunt, backpacking the head/ meat & a BIG griz flanked him for miles in thick brush. Now he carries a short bbl pump shotgun too loaded w REAL Bear stopping rounds. Easy to kill a griz from 1-200 yards that dosent know your there til its hit. Different story when theyre in your face & pissed.
In my opinion, you're right. Having hunting for 42 years I have the same experience as you. Keep up the good work, and always looking forward for your videos.
Ron, your dog is very gorgeous!
I love dogs as much as my firearms!!
No matter witch cal. you choose. Power has never made up for a bad shot. From .243 to .458, bullet placement is, what does the job! ❤
Exactly! I saw someone lose an Elk with .375 H&H. They took a bad shot and it didn't hit anything vital and it ran off and was actually killed by someone else the next day. The bullet hit the shoulder and came apart as soon as it hit that dense muscle.
I've seen deer hit correctly with the .243 and they act like there not even shot. very little blood trail. Bigger cartridges kill faster no matter how you cliché things! you have to hit your target, duh! 😮
Ron, I enjoy your optimism and skepticism milkshake. Your style and delivery are comforting and interesting. Plus you’re a bit goofy, which is awesome to see your comfort level on screen and you’re just comfortable with yourself. Keep it up
Firearm stuff aside, the pooch is really enjoying the rubs! Looking a little wobbly too. Now that’s the good life!
Jim, I really enjoy your videos. I think you do a great job. I truly believe your a straight up tell it like it is guy. I respect that. I must admit your dog is great. Beautiful Dog! God bless and keep up the great work.
Love your show! Thank you for your info
Some of these commenters need to really step back and realize the wealth of knowledge Ron provides the shooting community, not only that, but the fact he brings so much positive light to us in the shooting community with his honest, non badgering, non confrontational personality. There are so many "hunting" "influencer's" these days in the spotlight for illegal hunting activities ECT, that bring nothing but bad publicity to our beloved sport. Ron brings a wealth of knowledge and positivity... Be a Ron !!!!
Thank you Ron.
Keep up the good work , Ron.
I am lucky that both my kids love hunting and the shooting range. Both my son and my daughter help me when we reload for “their” specific rifles.
And as Mr Spomer mentions, they nearly grew up being carried around in a baby carrier wearing ear protection with me hunting fur or fowl.
Thank you for your balanced and educated information.
Ron, I’ve watched and read your content for many many years, and you gained my respect and trust early on. Your experience is much more extensive than my own, but you are dead on in your opinions on most subjects. I can’t really think of anything I would challenge you on, based on sound logic. Keep up the awesome work and great content, and don’t let uninformed naysayers cloud your day. Give Cubby an ear scratch for me! Huge fan in Fla.
Thanks Raleigh! You made my day.
It did my heart good to know you would take 7.62 over 5.56 if your life actually depended on it. Ballistic charts be damned. Good episode. You laid it out for us on that one. Keep bringing the content, brother Ron.
Well done Ron well done..
Im standing with you Mr Ron I highly respect your opinions, facts what ever you post write or say. I apreciate all you stand for and for all the advice and info you have always been willing to share with the public. I'll àlways be a fan of anything you show or tell involving guns, bullets, and hunting.
I grew up in the middle of the Willamette National Forest in Oregon and as a kid we pretty much lived in the woods. To this day it is common for my mom to have deer and even the occasional Cougar visit her yard. It was even a pretty common for my friend to have Elk come through their 20 acre place that they lived on. Now I live in Florida but still love to get out in the woods even if it's just to ride some trails on my motorcycle.
I don't know how someone could trade Oregon for Florida.
@@danblumel one reason is because the constant rain was causing me to have severe depression and my body just can't handle the cold weather anymore but the main reason is because I had a girlfriend from Florida and her family was here. I still get out there when I can to visit my mom and still love the area but at least for now Florida is home.
It’s called ‘the Portland effect’, I think. Welcome to the Freedom State. 👍
@@raleighthomas3079 I was long gone from Oregon before the Portland effect since I left in 2003. In fact I rarely was anywhere near Portland since I was 2.5 hours away living in the middle of the Willamette National Forest where there wasn't another town for over 20 miles and the nearest city was an hour away.
Rodger, beware of the gators & pythons. Why anyone would protect the gators is beyond me. I live in bear central Alaska bush & would rather deal w the bears than ANY gator.
The talking dog bit. Laughed for 10 minutes! THANKS!! 😂
I’m here for the hound.
As far as kids playing video games and not getting outdoors, many adults do not know how to camp, fish, and hunt. I am 50 and many of the people I work with, from my generation, play video games. Society has changed.
Currently finishing up a new rifle build in 35 whelen for this springs bear season. May become my next favorite cartridge!
Ron, you are the best. Your depth of knowledge is truly amazing. I look forward to every podcast. I need to quit being such a tightwad and join your Patreon page. Thank you for your efforts to increase our understanding and knowledge.
Ron we love you. Great, thoughtful and informed content.
Ron I love your channel, and I really love your little dog, he is so sweet and cute I love him
Ron, why is it some people think they know it all about fire arms, I find your video's very helpful ,thank you for making them, I learn a lot and make me a better reloader and shooest. After all, it's all about putting the pill on target. To the guy pitching about it... if you don't like Ron, don't watch his videos 😂
You do have a pretty dog I have a good dog also my little girl is a miniature Australian shepherd and she is colored kind of like your dog. I found out about the 721 Remington that didn’t shoot I took it to a friend house who had a bore scope and I found out that the chamber wasn’t cut straight to the bore so I did order a barrel and I am getting ready to turn it into a 280AI I am sure you gave me the advice about taking a bore scope to the barrel it did tell me why it didn’t shoot so thanks for the advice
Dear Ron, I really enjoy your many analyses and well thought through opinions. I think you are fair, facts based and balanced, and I just enjoy it so much when you put issues to the point, also when you scrutinize cartridges and calibers I use my self. I have been hunting for 40 years, small game, critters, and big game. In my inventory I have rifles and handguns in .22 or, .22 mag, .223Rem, .270Win, 7x57R, .308Win, 30.06, .357mag, 9x19, .44mag, and 9.3x62. I cannot recollect that I have disagreed with you yet! Keep those videos coming! Regards Christoffer from Norway!
WDM Bell took oblique brain shots on elephants from behind and to the side, utilizing the gap between the skull and shoulder. An elephant's brain is at the very back of its skull. He did not take frontal shots with small bore rifles. It's the secret of his success and why no one copied him. Bell went to Africa in 1902 to serve in the British Army as a scout during the Boer War. He stayed a dozen years after the war hunting elephants for ivory until WWI broke out when he went home to become a flier. In those days most elephants had never seen a white man nor heard a rifle. British professional hunters often reported gunfire did not spook African animals. They apparently associated it with thunder or other natural sounds. Bell specialized in sneaking up on bachelor herds from downwind and behind, often at very short range. The elephants simply dropped quietly one by one while the others went about their business. A wounded animal could spook the others. He could wipe out an entire herd leaving no one to teach others that shooting meant danger. He not only used a 7x57 Mauser but a 6.5x54 Mannlicher as well which he liked very much and recommended to Ernest Hemingway, who obtained three of them. His other rifles over the years included .303 British, .318 Westley Richards, .350 Rigby Magnum, .416 Rigby and .450/400 Nitro Express. He was an excellent shot. Witnesses once saw him shoot a bird out of the air with his .318. British professional hunters of later days have universally said Bell's feat was impossible to achieve in their time because elephants had learned by then that white men and gunfire meant trouble. The game changed to shooting mature bulls who are loners and have the best ivory in any case. No panicked family to turn on you after the shooting started. Interestingly, Bell disliked the big bore English double-rifles we have come to associate with African hunters. He felt they were overly powerful and the recoil discouraged good shooting. He also hunted buffalo and African game with small-caliber rifles, preferring lung shots.
You are by far my favorite RUclips channel for this sort of content. I have learned a lot from you.
I am not new to shooting, but I am new to hunting .
I am very interested in picking it up. I have been hunting twice before once for turkey and once for squirrel.
I am very interested in hunting deer elk and moose .
I move around every three years due to the military .
I love the western states since those are the states I’m originally from, and I have been stationed there twice before in that region .
But where I’m at now it’s hard to say that I’ll be able to make a shot past 300 yards with how dense the wooding is. But I would know I will not be in in North Carolina forever only a couple more years.
So I want to get a rifle that will be able to take anything . And be more restriction friendly, depending if I get stationed any more restricted state.
I was thinking of a 1886, 4570
I’m a little scared if I do end up being stationed in a western state again I would’ve thrown away my money since I would need to probably take a shot past 300 m
Should I allow the nostalgic bug to bite me?
Or would a good bolt action rifle chambered and something like 65 Creedmoor or one of the 7 mm?
Be a better bet, long-term .
For whatever reason I’m really keen on a lever gun
I like that the 4570 has more authority than the 3030 but I like the lightweight, narrow nature of the 3030 rifles .
What would you do if you wanted to buy a lever gun would you buy 3030 or a 45 70
Well, would you put the nostalgic bug to bed and just get a reasonable bolt action rifle?
RON
The 308 stinks!!!
You are absolutely on track.
. 308 Winchester derangement syndrome ......
😂
Oh please, 308, 30:06, 300 win mag are all fine. 308 on the lower velocitys, 300 upper end only 2-300 faster per jump. Minor %s really.
6.5 Grendel can be made into a light deer rifle. Same with .350 Legend but I would prefer the Grendel for greater distance target engagement.
Ron, the frontal area of a bullet is a significant factor in terminal ballistics. The only way to get energy IN to a bullet is by pushing on it's base. Pressure x Area x Distance will get the burning powder's energy into the bullet. Likewise the way to get energy OUT of a bullet is by pushing on the front. Larger caliber bullets will be more efficient transferring their energy. The tricky part is that sometimes you don't want quick, efficient transfer of energy. Like a 100 yard head-on shot with a big bull elk, and you're shooting a 7mm Mag. You want penetration and a gradual transfer of energy. But in contrast you might shoot a bull elk at 500 yards broadside. The bullets are moving slower and the vital organs not as deep. Here you want the quick and efficient energy transfer. You can get the best of both worlds by going to a larger diameter, heavier bullet.
I like your creative thinking comparing base diameter efficiency with nose diameter efficiency, Cody, but have you factored the variable expansion of the nose? It happens so quickly and variably that I have trouble believing it's an equal comparison. Might have some validity, though. One must also factor in materials and construction and the role they play in energy transfer (work) and penetration. Jury is still out for me, but thanks for giving more to chew on. BTW, I don't think any high speed bullet transfers energy gradually. It delivers the most after roughly (for most hunting bullets) 2 to 3 inches in where it has usually reached maximum expansion and/or has begun shedding pieces, all the while slowing because it has shed so much velocity/energy. The following wound channel is usually quite narrow.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Bullets do exhibit varying amounts of expansion. If 2 bullets of different diameters each expand by 150% then the larger caliber is still larger and more efficient. And if you assume the smaller bullet can expand to the same size as the larger bullet then it must consume more energy to affect that additional expansion. So less energy remains available to cause tissue damage. Great discussion Ron, keep up the good work.
Maybe a larger frontal diameter could be compared to a large broad head? More tearing, bigger whole, better blood trail? Just a thought, much love!
Thanks Ron
Hahaha, my kids do both, play video games and always want to come with Dad to the range! Hunting not so much probably because I’m not much of a hunter!
Ron as always great content and enjoy your straight forward approach on all things shooting and hunting. My dad grew up in Arizona and I learned from him all about "kooz" or more properly pronounced "cows" deer. Dad was familiar with the proper pronunciation for coues deer being "cows" but we all seemed to default to the "kooz" pronunciation. These deer can be found down in the desert around 3000 feet elevation on up to almost 7000 feet in the pines. A buddy of mine was out javelina hunting last week and sent me a picture of a large buck standing in front of a big saguaro cactus. I have been hunting these deer for going on 55 years and to call them "miniature" does not seem accurate. Having also hunted mule deer in the mountain west it never struck me that the coues whitetail were that much smaller. Unless eastern whitetail are the size of elk I can't see calling the Arizona whitetail miniature.
Nice info, sir. I was a bit surprised that you are finding Coues as low as 3,000 feet. I've always associated them with elevations closer to the oaks. As for miniature, they say the average size of a buck is 30- to 32-inches high at shoulder and 100 pounds. Dakota whitetails will go 36" at the shoulder and 300 pounds, sometimes 400. By that standard, I'd call Coues miniature. But hunting them is anything but a smaller experience! Biggest buck I've ever tagged scores 111 typical, 121 non-typical. Laughable for a northern whitetail, book head for Coues!
For Pacific Northwest Blacktail deer hunting, the 300 Savage has always been a perfect load. Most shots are 100 yards or less. With the decline of availability of 300 Savage no tox ammunition in California, I started hunting with my Grandfather’s Model 88 Winchester 308. It has proven a great replacement for it. It gives me all the best of the 300 Savage with better performance and more ammunition choices.
I think you need to do sone ballistic gel tests with the 260 and 308. Iv seen the difference in the size of the wound channel it’s quite suprising to say the least keep up the good work ron
Ron, on Sellier & Belliot ammo. I purchased 500 rounds in 6.5 Creedmoor a couple of years ago in 140 grain. Every round would cause a heavy bolt lift with 2725 average fps. Tried in3 different rifles all with the same result. John from the gun collective had an episode with the same results. Accuracy was sub moa, I ordered a Hornady bullet puller. I reduced the powder charge a full grain down to 10 grains total with 10 rounds. Shoot 1 grain less than 2 grains then skipped to 5 less and then 10 grains with the same heavy bolt lift result. I couldn’t believe it! I then decided to try H4350, I went with my target load weight and ReSeated the bullet with 1/2” moa results. The factory powder went in my tomato garden with fantastic results. Keep up the great work that you do!!
@robertspina1494 ---> So,,,, It seems that you are telling folks to NOT buy the Sellier & Bellot ammunition from a central European nation because it is loaded too "hot". {Remember: Not everyone handloads their ammo, so your remade ammo story is not helpful to people buying ammo "off the shelf".} It is interesting for us who have handloading equipment.
I don't really understand the availability arguments.. Here we are ON THE INTERNET and people can't use the Internet to buy ammo?
I recently picked up a tang safety m77 in 308, where my old faithful is a Savage 11 in 260.. your video made me realize my very profound need for 7mm..
Thanks Ron
I'm taking my 10 yr old grand daughter bear hunting for the first time this spring
Enjoy yourself! I'm a firm believer in the saying,"take a kid hunting, and you will never have to hunt for the kid."
I started a practice many, many years ago that for my hunting rifles. I would try many brands and weights of bullets. When I found the “one” that worked the best, I would go back to the store and purchase 2 or 3 more boxes with the same lot number thus having plenty of ammo for the coming years. I started this practice with a 280 Remington and am now down to my last 3 cartridges for it. I would go to the range every year and fire one or two fouling shots with ammo that wasn’t as accurate and then fire my favorite to check that it was still spot on. I’ve never had to worry about going to the store at the last minute to find ammo and have to worry about how accurate it will be. By the way, I also like the 7mm-08 and my Kimber serves me well. Keep up the great podcasts. Thoroughly enjoyable.
Ron, great episode! I myself purchased a LAW rifle after one of your reviews many moons ago. lol Mark Banser was the original designer of the brand. He sold the company, and a few years later started Bansner Guns. The company is still in Pennsylvania. He makes an African hunting model. The stock he builds along with the Action are for sell. If you recall it is a controlled round feed, I love the action and stock! The 26 Nosler not so much, took me 6 years to slow it down to 3333 fps. Pressure signs have now been subdued, 127 gr. LRXs hit hard and flat. Cheers
I have one also great gun. If the extractor ever breaks there are only one or two people in the world that can replace it though.
Glad it's working for you. Mark, by the way, was building great Bansner rifles long before he started with LAW. And the LAW action was invented by, if I'm not mistaken, Ed Brown.
To Dustin, if your building a custom light weight for FL. Based on my experience in FL, there are very few long-range shots. Take a .224 Valkerie bolt and chamber the barrel in 6.8 spc (used to be able to find bolt gin in 6.8 but not anymore). The round peroms exceptionally with short barrels, 16.5 to be legal. It would be barely easy to get a gun under six pounds.
I approve of everything you say, even if uou dont know what you're talking about, LOL. Seriously, your content is great. Your setter is as friendly as my Golden.
Right Ron, slob hunters were more prevelent years ago. How about rhe guys from Philly or NYC shooting and taking a farmer's livestock back to the city with them back in the day? I'm glad these people are playing video games now.
Karamojo Bell, Karamojo is a nickname. He has a classic book about his ivory trade hunting. Complete with diagrams and recommendations. Great read for hunters. Must read for African dangerous game.
The Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter by Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell. A must read indeed.
Great sponsor, I love my knives of alaska cub bear and im thinking of picking up their boning knife and a couple others
Hey Ron, I just read your article on the debate on too fast of a round. Now I'm in the camp of too fast for expansion being a thing mainly because it's the only thing I can think of for what I had happen with my 270. I nailed a whitetail at about 75 yards with hornady 270 bullets and to our surprise I had zero expansion. It had a clean perfectly round 270 hole for both enterance and exit wound even after bouncing off the spine. After reading your article I'm thinking of maybe trying other ammo producers to see if I can find something else my rifle likes.
Sorry about your antelope, Demon, but I can assure you it wasn't too much speed. The faster a bullet moves, the more energy it carries. Peak energy initiates peak expansion. this commonly held idea that a bullet needs "time to open" just doesn't make sense. It isn't as if we plant it in the animal and then an internal mechanism opens it and begins hammering away or slicing away at tissue. The bullet lands with maximum power and immediately begins to expand reaching maximum expansion after about 2 to perhaps 4 inches of travel, all the while slowing down due to friction and losing energy that is required to expand. Only a solid would poke through without transferring much energy. And a .277" bullet -- even a 90-grain one -- bouncing off a whitetail's spine is impossible unless it was made of marshmallow fluff. At 75 yards a 130-grain .277 bullet launched at 3,100 fps will be carrying about 2,330 foot pounds of energy. That's enough energy to lift 2,330 pounds of dead weight a foot off the ground. Without having the bullet to examine, I don't think we can declare it didn't expand. It might have bent, split, fragmented or been otherwise deformed, but zipping through muscle and spine without changing in some way seems physically impossible unless it was a super hard solid. Ihave heard of a few instances of early Barnes X bullets not opening due to debris in the nose hollow. I once had one of those get its petals squeezed shut when hitting a branch at just the right angle to bend the nose to the side, preventing body fluids from entering the hollow and opening it, so something like that might have happened. By the way, I've notice many times over the years that expanded bullets will exit a hide while leaving a surprisingly small hole. The hide seems to stretch to let the expanded bullet pass, then spring back. In short, without additional information, I wouldn't necessarily give up on that bullet. Lots of luck figuring it out!
My dogs want send me to see Covey so she train me as she trained you to do such awesome scratching & petting . My standards , according to the dogs are way down in the basement when it comes petting lol Keep up the great work and thank you
Keith
308 is average at velocity, bc and weights
But it does it all pretty well with fairly low recoil,
Now load up some 190gn SubX to sub sonic speeds and throw a silencer on and report 👌
Would like to see a review and an educated opinion of the .243 Ackley Improved and how it relates to the 7mm-08/260 rem/.308 Win. argument. I see reports of 115gn high BC bullets at or close to 3,150 fps. Seems like it might exceed the other options. Thanks for the videos!
With the .308win- 2023 BIG buck one shot, lights out dropped in mid stride never moved a hoof. Smaller deer, one shot (same rifle and round), same distance, but deer was alert. Ran 70yds before piling up. Shot placement, shot placement and oh yeah adrenaline in the deer...or game animal. 2012 BIG buck, one shot same range as 2023 and unaware, one shot 2 3/4in foster slug dropped in his tracks never wiggled. Adrenaline or lack of it is HUGE in one shot kills. Picked those 2 because they were size similar and both mindlessly tending doe at identical ranges.
Hi Ron. Your European prenaunsiaton of Sellier&Bellot was correct. But the viewer is mostly right about the quality. Here in Denmark you can buy it in most stores, and it really have developed a reputation for being inaccurate in many rifles and calibers.
Btw. It is produced in the Czech republic, i think.
I tried the Sellior & Bellot 140gr in 6.5 Creedmoor for my first go at 1,000 yards. While it sometimes struggled to register on the Shotmarker those that did grouped well enough.
I have a .308 Mauser. My other centerfire rifle is a .35 Rem., in a Marlin. The .35 has a slight advantage in that I can handload heavy .357 revolver slugs, or get real speed out of 125 Grainers. When your selection is limited, you dance with who ya brung...
I agree the 308 Win is nothing specialy until you have to purchase ammo if your not a reloader. You can find 308Win and 6.5CM every place from Walmart to Gas Stations in rural area's. 223/556 is easy to find as long as you are not limited to Walmart! None of those are incredible cartridges but they are so common they might as well be canned mixed vegtables or canned meat like SPAM you can find it in every store and again even at gas stations. The 30/30 is even worse and that has been hanging in there for far longer than it rightful should!
Ron, I have loaded both .308 and 30-06 with a 150gr. Running at 2800 fps. Deer seemed to respond the same. Then I used an 8mm mauser slinging a 150 gr. Also running at 2800 fps. Oh not the same! Deer dropped and dropped hard. I know the science says all three have the same weight and speed then they all have the same energy. Based on my experience I have come to believe the the larger diameter projectile delivers the same energy but does so far more effectively. Am I nuts? Btw, I wish savage would reintroduce the 300 savage. Light recoil makes it ideal for new set hunters, lighter framed folks (ladies) and old guys like me that don't want to take a beating anymore.😂
Your experience lends support to the wider bullet hitting harder theory, Rich. Keep on experimenting. As for that 300 Savage, it throws same bullets as 308, just 200 fps slower. The recoil result is a difference of about 1.5 foot pounds in same-weight rifles. Perceived recoil, however, can be different depending on stock lines, recoil pads, and fit.
NOT SINCE BOB MILEK HAS THEIR BEEN AN OUTDOOR JOURNALIST OF YOUR QUALITY!!! MAY GOD GIVE YOU MANY MORE YEARS OF QUALITY HUNTING!
Hey Ron I'd like to thank you for all the great content and information! I recently purchased the new sig cross in 308 win with the 18in barrel. I'm shooting the barnes ttsx in 130gr. The results on whitetail this hunting season was impressive to say the least! I have a black bear trip to Idaho in a couple of months and was wondering what your thoughts were on this set up for my adventure or should I go back to my trusty 30-06. Thanks again for time and dedication to your work! Sincerely Ted
Ted, the bears won't care which you use! Whatever makes you happy. I always prefer the slimmest, sleekest, lightest bolt actions when backcountry hunting. I would recommend a controlled expansion bullet in both. 150-gr. on up. I had to shoot some 300-yds. plus across a canyon for my last ID bear.
@RonSpomerOutdoors thanks for the expedient response. I'm shooting around a 6in group at 500 yds off the bipod. I'm super confident in the platform just a little worried about the bullet performance. I'm not experienced in the newer copper projectiles. Thanks again to you and your crew.
I’d chrono that bad Larry. If you watch vortex nation one guy on there is continually singing it’s praises. I think your initial velocity combined with the relatively low BC of that bullet is what’s going to determine your range.
Hey Ron ! I'm a HUGE fan of the 308 win and wish I still had one. However do I think it's the best . No not necessarily. I took my first white tail with it so it will always hold a soft spot in my hart. But since then I have owned a bunch of different rifles in different cals . I have settled on a few that i would pick over the 308 but not because I don't like the 308 but prefer the performance of the others. For me the 270 Win is just about perfect where I hunt here in Ontario my number 1 choice . 2nd 7mm mag which used to be my top pick but just a bit more expensive for ammo and harder to find everywhere today . Then the trusty and super versatile 30/06. I no longer own a 270 so the old 06 is filling the gap until do get another ,wish I never let it go . BUT 308 is a rifle I would never say no to. I love the short action and the clout it has for general huntil.
I see your sponsor is knives of Alaska
I bought a set of 3 in 2001. Although they need a factory sharping they are still in excellent condition. 23 years later. Worth the nearly 300$ price tag.
Paying that much. You tend to take care of them. lol.
S&B has some Xengry Blue n a Edge in 8x57 I would like to get some. Would not hesitate to use all monolithic in 8x57.Handloaded for 1 with Barnes just havent got around to taking anything with em.
Good video again. At about 15:51 you were talking about ammo. I live in Canada and just today I was at Cabelas. Me and another customer got talking about the high price of ammo currently on the shelves. I’m talking $70-$120 for a box of 20 in standard calibers 270/30-06/7 Rem/300 Win etc. Some of the 6.5 Creed is reasonably priced at $50 or so but most are priced at the above with a 5% tax to add on all boxes this gets quite expensive. With no primers even hand loading is getting to be not an option. Component prices seem to have risen substantially. The gentleman related he was looking for 06 ammo on a gun he just got. In looking at the prices we both came to the conclusion that gone are the days of buying 2, 3, or 4 boxes of ammo and going out shooting these days. He mentioned he mainly shoots a 7 Rem but now he has 2 boxes of ammo and shot a mule deer and a whitetail deer last fall. He said he shot 2 bullets and 2 for sighting in. He put his gun away and won’t pull it out til next fall. He intends to stretch the two boxes for as many years as he can. Meaning he isnt going to do any off season shooting. He was looking at a box of 30-06 ammo price of $79.99 ($83.98 w/tax) and decided to keep his $ in his pocket. His reason; what if this stuff doesn’t group? Then I’m stuck with an $80+ box of ammo that’s only good for fouling.
This is what I’m finding with a couple other hunting buddies who said they just can’t afford to go out and shoot during the off months like we used to. I’m not sure what the answer is?
Only answer I have is bow and arrow -- but best make your own because broadheads alone are upwards of $40 EACH? Shafts are nearly $10 each and bows? $300 and up. WAY up.
Hey! I live in ontario and can find all kinds of ammo under 70 bucks a box. Not sure where you are . Just need to stay away from. The super premium stuff.. however I can buy 30-06 anywhere from 44 dollors and up . Yeah it's may not be match grade but have several that shoot well from my 06. Range time I agree can be damaging to the old wallet but sometimes just got to get it done. Only thing I can say to this is try some other places to get ammo . There are some cheaper places out there . I seldom buy ammo at Cabelas unless it's on sale, or it's something specific I need . Also these days I try to find at least 3 rounds that group close to one another at 150 yrds. Sometimes that is not easy but over the years I have found 3 for my 06 , 2 for my 45/70 (which are painfully expensive). 5 different ones for my 22lr.zeroed at 50 yrds. I feel confident with all these when I hunt with them. No harm in buying cheaper ammo man provided your gun likes them . I have taken moose and bear with the old cheap ammo and it dropped em just a quick as the 80 dollar box of terminal accent from federal.
Ron. How would you feel if your Bersa rear sight blade and springs fell out while you were shooting it fir the first time. Bought used yet in good/new condition. I found that Thunder 380 has done that to others (six I found without really trying)?!
I know it’s a cheap gun , but I don’t have a problem on my SCCYs!!
Bersa factory is useless! Have you heard of this??
ammo availability and not ever shooting game much past 60 yards is the only reason I'd pick the 308 over 7-08. Truth be told three hundred yards and in they are nearly identical ballistically. A deer shot at 60 yards in the timber wouldn't be able to tell you if he was shot with a 150 grain 308 or a 140 grain 7-08.
Hi Ron , how are you , iam a new fan and enjoy learning from you, iam a owner and fan of CZ rifles , I was wondering if you have experienced them and if you might review on , I own a 457 in 17 hmr and a 600 in 308, also Ron iam from Saskatchewan Canada, have you hunted deer here,it’s great , hope here from you , shoot straight friend
Hey John I found a 50 cal while cleaning
light weight rifle? 6mm ARC. Head shots neck shots. with muzzle brake No recoil.
You would be surprised at the performance of 6mm ARC.
Christ bless!
My old trusty a Sako AIII in 30-06. Has always shot almost all 180gr lead cores sub MOA. When CA forced us to go non- lead, I went with Barnes 180 TSX. I’ve loved Barnes bullets for years, in many different calibers. My gun hated them. After consulting with my reloading guru friend. I loaded 150gr TTSX. And tested, suggested COL, .050 & .075 deeper seating. The.075 seating shoots 3/8” groups @ 100 yards. Now even Barnes suggests trying deeper seating. Hope this helps someone. I’m not an expert, this is just my experience.
Thanks Ron and keep the great videos coming.
Hope All are Well and Safe.
Edit; The only thing this video is missing is a camp fire and a tall Bourbon.
For as long as I can recall, Barnes has recommended starting with bullets seated .050" off the lands. But your experience shows once again that not every rifle is irredeemably inaccurate. Often you just have to feed it the right diet.
my simple 94, in 30.30 can go from mud to gold, simply over the particular ammo. thanks
I’d choose the 6.8Western over the 7mm rem mag ❤
Also not the biggest fan of S&B ammo. Accuracy is OK for Hunting, but the brass does funny things when you reload it.
One set of reloads the Primer pockets stretched so much that the primers fell out.
Another instance the necks seemed to not be concentric
Also reloaded brass did not want to fit back in the same rifle after fireforming
Talking about the 35 Whelen, 8mm Mauser and 325 WSM I don't see why the 338 Win mag is being dismissed so quickly. Recoil is mostly a function of bullet weight and velocity. I assume this gentleman loads his own ammo if he's considering the 8mm and 325, so the 338 could easily be loaded with similar recoil levels to the other cartridges. For 300 yards and under there's not a huge difference between any of them, so I agree with Ron when he says take your pick. Personally I would be going back and forth between the Whelen and the 338 Win mag.
308 brass easily changed to 6.5 creedmoor AND 243 winchester ... for reloading ... military calibers = utility and availability .. better specific performances for specific needs LOTS of other calibers ... general purpose is typically a MAJOR strength of military calibers including availability.
I agree with your response to the Vietnam vet. As a Sea Bee during the Vietnam War I started out carrying a M14 and, while it was larger and heavier than a M16, I still felt it was a superior weapon and hated it when they made us switch to the M16. Also, I am a retired law enforcement officer and CSI with over thirty years of experience working shooting cases. I also researched "stopping power" by reading all the studies and officer-involved shootings I could get my hands on. With all that first-hand observation and research I learned the following. While my research involved humans, I see no good reason it can't apply to hunting wild game.
1. As you have said about hunting wild game, bullet placement into a vital area is most important to quickly down your game or end a confrontation; But, during a deadly encounter where both you and your target are moving, you will be lucky to just hit your target. The odds of hitting a vital area are about one in five.
2. In the more likely situation, where you only wound your target, with a pistol, and even some small caliber rifles, bullet diameter can often have an effect.
A. The second fastest way to down a target is through blood loss. It is simple. A larger wound damages more blood vessels causing faster blood loss. With blood loss, blood pressure drops and the brain shuts down. This is why expanding bullets are more effective than solid bullets. Expanding bullets do more damage. Depending on the amount of damage, blood vessels, or a lucky strike to an artery, it may take seconds or minutes for a target to go down.
3. As I interviewed gunshot victims and read the reports of hundreds of officer-involved shootings I noticed a pattern. Individuals shot with a projectile under forty caliber often did not know they had been shot! They had to have other people point it out to them or they felt it much later, after the event. But individuals shot with a projectile over forty caliber almost always felt the impact immediately! They would say things like "I felt it hit me like a hammer". This knowledge almost always had an immediate effect on the individual's thought process and actions. The value of this effect depends on the mindset of the target. It may cause an attacker or dangerous game to switch from fight to flight.
Interestingly, this effect appears to come from the initial impact of the bullet as it tears through the skin and does not appear to apply to expanding bullets. I suspect it is because an expanding bullet does not have time to expand before it passes through the skin.
Good information, Pawpaw. And I'm in a weak position to say how that effect applies to game. I've seen them react to heavy hits with heavy bullets by merely standing, looking around as if to ask "what was that." Quite variable. I'll never forget the whitetail doe fawn I shot during a culling operation with a full-patch 54-cal muzzleloader bullet from inside 50 yards. She dashed off full speed, a .54" hole through her chest. Fell after the typical 50 or 75-yard dash.
That seems to be why the Army and Browning came up with the .45 handgun for cranked up soldiers with tourniquets pre applied.
Covey us a a pretty dog. I bet my Roscoe would love her.
Frontal diameter really comes into play as the game starts to become the size and weight of an automobile and dawn dozens of teeth like daggers. The African .375 min dia for dangerous game is a prime example.
I don’t understand why people feel they have to defend what they like. Just use whatever works for you. Save the drama for your mama.
I wouldn't recommend the 338 federal now that the 8.6 blackout is around, i think the 8.6 can do everything the 338fed can with the additional benefit of being practical as a subsonic,
Only con i see about the 8.6 is that it has the potential of delaminating standard cup and core bullet when shot supersonic because of its realy tight twist rate, making it hard to shoot on the cheap, but if you want to shoot copper bullets anyway, i think 8.6 come out on top
I fear the 338 Federal, excellent though it is, will fade away regardless the growth of the 8.6 Blackout. If the trend toward shorter barrels with or without suppressors continues, the 8.6 does have a greater chance of staying relevant at short to medium ranges. It can't, however, match the 338 Fed. in a 20-22-inch barrel for max. MV.
338 WM is probably still more common that either
Ron I notice that when you compare bullets and cartridges that you try to compare bullets of the same weight in different calibers against each other. I think that there may be a more pertinent comparison that this ignores. I find that for different cartridges there is usually what you sometimes call a sweet spot. For lead ammunition in 30:06 it is usually 165. For 270 normally around 130. For 7mm 140. For 308 approximately 150. I am sure you get the drift (pun intended). This would have to be adjusted for all copper bullets or other departures from primarily lead designs. Since I give more weight to terminal performance I normally choose slightly heavier than optimal for caliber bullets, for hunting in the real world. This has always worked well for me. I do not take shots at over 400 yards at game animals, much less if I can. I have been fortunate enough to be able to choose the caliber I use based on the size game I am hunting. If I was restricted to one rifle I would find the 30:06 or 308 great for all North American game. I agree with you that the 7mm REM Mag is what I would want if I could rationalize taking 400 plus shots at game animals. I am a seventy five year old veteran and I prefer 308 and 50 BMG for our armed forces. 223 is perfect for plinking. Stay healthy and productive. Your value has increased since we are losing Paul Harrell. Maybe you can use some meat targets and start eating Pop Tarts? Forget the Pop Tarts, they are only good as targets, and large stale sugar cookies are much better at that. A raccoon told me so.
Love your humor and good sense, Robert. Yes, losing Paul is a sad blow. What a remarkable talent. As for comparing bullets, I prefer to compare by B.C. This maximizes the potential of each. Same weight always favors the smaller caliber. But regardless which way I do it, half the audience seems to object! But at least we're all gradually learning the sometimes surprising if not confusing aspects of the physics of projectiles in flight.
My hearing kept me out also. I'm 78 and still shooting a lot
There is a difference in shooting target and hunting. I have doubles: a 6.8 Western for hunting and one for target, a 243 for hunting and one for target, and a 308 for hunting and one for target. I never use my target guns for hunting.
Just peeked into Google: Sellier & Bellot is in Czech Republic, but originated by some French people. Brazil was involved in company lineage. Thus the source says it's pronounced like French would: "SELL-iyea and BEL-lot". Another online reference says it's pronounced differently. Guess anything works, as long as your understood!
S & B ammo made in the Czech Republic
Here's how I'd explain the different calibers and how the size can change the way the bullet impacts the game animal. Take a 2x4 piece of lumber and start three nails, a 6d, a 10d, and a 16d, into the wood. Now take a 20oz framing hammer and strike each one with an identical blow from the hammer. The 6d nail will be driven deep into the wood with one strike. The 10d nail will not go as far into the wood with identical force being applied as the 6d nail. The 16d nail will take several blows to drive the nail into the wood even though each strike of the hammer will apply the same force as to the two smaller nails. My point is that a smaller bullet driven with the same foot pounds of force will go deeper into the animal than a larger caliber due to less frontal area and the corresponding friction.
That's very true, IF we're talking about non expanding bullets. As I've already written to Ron, if you shoot a 143 grain bullet in a 260 Rem, and a 168 grain bullet in the 308, the 308 will (firstly) already have a greater surface area and do more damage. I know as you're reading this you're yelling at me that the 6.5 projectile will expand to have potentially the same frontal area, for example both expand to 0.5 inches wide. However because the 260 is a 143 projectile and a 308 is a 168 grain projectile, at the same (expanded) diameter the 308 projectile will now have a greater sectional density,, thus penetrate better. If the 6.5 only expanded to 40 calibre, sure it may have a greater SD, but then you MUST concede that the 308 pill will rip more vital tissue with its greater surface area.
Sorry but to many factors to compare bullet performance on game to a nail in wood. Load type, animal size and bone density, bullet construction etc....
Ron, I love your videos and am learning so much! I'm getting my first ever hunting rifle, a Husqvarna with a controlled feed action in 30-06. I could get a 20.5 or a 24 inch barrell. I'm not worried about losing velocity but, will the muzzle flash and blast be far worse on the short barrel? Its for hunting, in British Columbia
I would recommend the 24 inch barrel to extract more potential out of the 30-06, especially if you ever plan to hand load your ammo.
Dimensions, if you mainly hunt open country and shoot far, go with 24". But since you said you weren't worried about velocity, the 20.5 will be handier and plenty powerful enough. Yes, a bit more muzzle blast, but at either length there are more dBs of blast than you want to suffer. Well over the hearing safe mark with both. If silencers are allowed up there, you could have the 20" bl. threaded, screw on a short suppressor, and solve the blast issue. Otherwise, hearing protection.
Thanks for the fast reply! I do like the idea of hand loading and am leaning towards the longer barrel
Thanks Ron, for the detailed reply! I would run a suppressor but they aren't legal. I do care about velocity but wanted to have fewer factors for my choice as I get overwhelmed with all these considerations. I am leaning toward the 24 inch barrel and I may even go as far as picking up both guns, trying them out and keeping and scoping the gun that feels best. I am absolutely going to wear hearing protection too!
@@dimensionsofearth I’ve had 20, 22 and 24 inch barrels and I just don’t see the big deal that everyone makes about a 24 inch barrel. It’s just not that hard to carry and I prefer the extra velocity potential and actually prefer the way it looks too.
Why the .308 Winchester is the best center fire rifle cartridge?:
It checks too many boxes not to be!
1. Performance - It has been doing the job for many years and it still gets the job done despite the new fly by night flavor of the month cartridges introduced to the market. It may no longer be the bestest mostest ballistically superior cartridge but it’s certainly capable and more than adequate for a wide variety of applications
2. Cost - It’s relatively inexpensive by comparison to boutique cartridges
3. Availability- It’s commercially readily available everywhere especially off the shelf in many different offerings. Besides the fact it’s still in widespread use by civilian market it’s still in use well as the military as well as law enforcement.
4. Military Service & Longevity- It’s was originally developed for military applications in 7.62x51 NATO to replace the 30.06 Gov’t (SAAMI 30.06 Springfield) and subsequently adapted for the civilian market in the SAAMI spec .308 Winchester. It’s military lineage and civilian popularity have driven its development over the years. It’s a tried and true known commodity.
5. Versatility/Applications - It checks many boxes:
* Available in multiple platforms
* Fully Automatic
* Semi Automatic
* AR-10
* FN-FAL/DS Arms SA-58
* HK G3/PTR-91
* Springfield M1A
* Bolt Action
* Lever Action-Henry/Browning
* Pump Action
* Break Action
* Applications
* Battle Rifle/War
* Sniper & DMR/SPR, Military and LE, proven
* SHTF/Zombie Apocalypse/WROL
* Survival
* Freedom & Liberty/2A Purposes
* Long Range/Competition
* Hunting
* Deer
* Elk
* Moose
* Bear
6. Jack of all trades, “All around”- IMHO the standard by which all others are judged and other than the 5.56 x45 NATO, the one centerfire rifle cartridge I would stockpile. All other cartridges I consider “special purpose” therefore don’t need a bunch of it.
Please! Please! Get with KentuckyBallistics and talk with him about the history of some of his MASSIVE big bore collection. Of course shot some with him.
Well Ron to the .308 Win, I won one in a Bar Pool a Model 99 .308 Win saw no need for it so I gave it to my Brother over 35 years ago well I have it back from him and it still is unfired ! I hunt with a 6mm Rem, .264 Win Mag and 300 H&H Mag and I really see nothing the .308 Win to do that the others will do better ! So I get what you are saying about the .308 Win. Yes it has a place just not for Me.
@@robertspina1494
I would not on a New barrel. Not only that the 7mm-08 would not do anything my other will.
The .308 doesn’t really stink if you understand the ballistics. It goes below 1500 ft lbs of energy just beyond 350 yards. Using it on large game, at ranges beyond 400 would be unethical, in my book.
R.S. - Good video. Not many people on You Tube channels respond to critics and fans. BTW - I looked up the Legendary Arms group/bunch/company using my Bing search engine. Looks like they are making whole rifles. "Rifle" magazine did a review.
P.S. I'm not sure, but I think that the idea of large frontal diameter bullets comes from the mid to later 1800's with black powder cartridges. Less horsepower (velocity) with black powder ammo, so it is a good idea to make a bigger hole in the critter for more blood loss. I'd say that the massive demise of the Bison herds in the 1800's is proof of that idea.
If you really want to shoot those ridiculously large bores, holler at Kentucky Ballistics. I’m sure he would loan you some, he even has a 4 bore, just in case you are tired of your shoulder and need an excuse to get it replaced.
If you're gun has 60 inches of drop or 130 inches of drop it really doesn't matter as long as you know how much drop your bowl is going to have.
Hey Ron though it’s hard to get them to understand much a good way to get the “frontal diameter” guys to understand how affective a smaller longer bullet can be just as affective as a short wide bullet is to ask them if they’d rather get stabbed by a 6in chefs knife or a 9in filet knife. Both do the job and I wouldn’t want to be stabbed by either. My point is both have their place and I’ve noticed it’s people who aren’t accurate enough to shoot effectively at distance that like the short wide bullets because they couldn’t get the benefits of a more ballistic coefficient bullet anyway.
Ron...this is a totally different topic...You have rarely talked about the 308 Norma Mag...It uses the same parent case of the 7mm Rem Mag, 338 Win Mag and he 264 Win Mag. It was popular in the early 60's when 30-06's were rechambered before the 300 win mag...It's a great cartridge with great design...why is it not talked about much?
The 1960 308 Norma Mag. was beat out by the 300 Win Mag of 1963 in the USA. Few rifles chambered for the Norma over here. This belted magnum is quite similar to the 300 Win Mag, but shorter, more like the 338 Win Mag necked down to .308. Virtually identical ballistic performance.
While it may be a small matter of conjecture, I maintain that the first centerfire came out about the same time as the 22 short. The Morse cartridge came out between 1857 to 1860. This was a self contained cartridge that had a percussion nipple in the center of the base of the cartridge. Once a percussion cap was placed on the cartridge nipple, it was fully self contained and a CENTERFIRE cartridge. While not made exactly like other centerfire cartridges, it WAS self contained and it DID fire from a central ignition.
Personally I think the reason it's not well known is because Morse was a Southern sympathizer. Be that as it may, rimfire and centerfire ignition came about at around the same time.
Thanks Kirk. There were other rifles/bullets that used a firing pin to strike a percussion cap in the base of the bullet, most notably the Dreyse Needle Gun. Also the early Volcanic, precursor to the Henry. Then there were the pinfires. None were quite what we consider centerfire cartridges today.
@RonSpomerOutdoors - Very true, but all those other examples had the percussion ignition inside the cartridge. That's why I didn't put them on my list. The Morse cartridge had an exposed cap at the base - just like a modern cartridge, and the difference is a nipple in the case vs an anvil on the case or in the primer. It even looks similar to a modern centerfire cartridge. That's why I chose it as "first" so to speak.
I just watch a video of a dude shooting a Blue Wildebeest with a .408 CheyTac and it didn't drop in in the first hit (wasn't a great shot).