Fiber-reinforced resin prints - how much STRONGER are they?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2020
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Can we create DIY fiber-reinforced parts on a normal resin printer? What materials other than carbon fiber cloth and glass fibers can we use? Does it make the parts we produce actually stronger? Let's find out!
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Concerned about the methodology here... There is a huge difference between Tensile Strength and Flexural Strength, and this test (which is purely flexural) is kind of a worse-case scenario for the orientation of the layers and the direction of force, mechanically speaking. I'll ramble a bit but don't want one wall of text so...
If I could recommend one improvement it would be to print two eyelets in your test pieces and do a Pull Test in a similar orientation to your scale. This would be testing Tensile strength instead of Flexural, and I suspect you'd find the overall tensile strength greatly improved over the default resin. When working with material composites, orientation is everything. To put into other terms: imagine a wet rope gets frozen all the way through. The newly rigid rope might, under the right circumstances, break if set parallel to the ground and force is applied to one end, as it's being attacked in it's thinnest/weakest dimension. If, however, the frozen rope was used to lift a load (as a rope realistically might be asked to do), failures in the ice may be more numerous, but they should be overall smaller, more evenly dispersed, and overall less impactful on the rope itself or it's ability to lift the attached load.
i know right? putting in fiber is to increase tensile strength. flawed methodology
@@doctorjustice Added fibers would increase tensile strength. The problem is that he didn't test tensile strength. He tested flexural strength.
I don't follow what you guys have against the testing.
@@difflocktwo go do some study on mechanical/structural/material engineering, then watch the video again. You'll then realize that this video and the results are pretty much meaningless.
@@mwpaus Ok. Brb, going to university so I can watch a youtube video. Or you can clarify what the issue is.
I liked the print head bouncing in sync with the beat of the music 😁
Techno elegoo
I'm glad I'm not the only one who got a kick out of that
@@neilbradley9035 techno-goo
Thomas' video editing effort didn't go unnoticed
Please wear a respirator when working with glass fibre, especially when you have frayed edges and you are making cuts.
in some of the shots they are indeed wearing a respirator, and they also have a vacuum hose right where they are working :)
Also always wear something to cover exposed skin as fiberglass itch is a terrible thing. Really nasty stuff to work with especially when sanding and grinding.
@@tonberryhunter talc is the secret sauce. and a dust mask is all that is needed when dealing with stranded fiber glass.
And coveralls and gloves. I still have glass fibres embedded in my legs from a long, long time ago.
Man I remember when I build some Fiberglas parts for my car.
Top less.
Had the Ständer out and was happylie sanding.
Some Minutes later I had a little ich on my sweaty belly so I scratched it a little without thinking about it.
Well, Worst desicion I ever made 🤣 rubed it in and was terribly itchi for almost a week
CNC Kitchen should repeat this. We need multi site validation of results. Also the standardized test machine with replicates and standard deviation appeal to my inner scientist
Yes please
I want to know the e-module
Go to check some serious published paper. They are already there. SLA printed glass fiber reinforced composites have around 90 MPa in tensile strength. It is way lower than those printed by FDM.
@@HiLeeHighly For all resins? There's a really wide variety of resins with vastly different properties...
@@oasntet If you mean quasi-static properties then resin type does not play an important role. I have tested almost all commercialized resin with either glass-fibre sheets or glass powders, none of them reaches more than 90 MPa in tensile strength. Probably glass fiber reinforced composites may have great impact resistance, that is what I am going to test in the future.
We add 10% milled 1/64" glass fibers to the resin by weight, it works great.
Now THIS is something that I would like to see tested
Not sure, but my instinct tell me that he should have mixed with more flexible resin. I feel that adding whatever to something britlle will never work...
Just saw this comment. Would like to see how this does in various loads.
Agreed. Try adding short fibres and more flexible resin.
I was surprised that chopped flass fibre wasn't mixed in. You've answered that. What about glass beads, even as a filler? How do you maintain distribution of the fibres?
Maybe it would also be good to test the orientation of the fiber weave as well? Alternate the layup 45° each layer perhaps? Great work as always!
Was just going to say this and luckily your comment was first in the list :)
Orienting the fibers in different directions helps strengthen the part against loads in those directions. It wouldn't necessarily improve the results of this one test that Thomas is doing.
@@noelwade at the moment the only fibers being used in tension are the lengthwise fibers. The horizontal fibers aren't doing anything and can have a negative impact just like layer separation with FDM printing. Putting the sheets at a 45 degree angle could help to spread the tension across all fibers throughout the part. It would be another interesting test to see the layers at 45 degrees and a quasi-isotropic part with alternating layers of 0/90 and -45/+45 degrees. Also a test with only lengthwise fibers instead of a weave because I suspect the horizontal fibers could weaken the structure as they are useless in this test anyway.👍
@@ryanlandry8214 yes, my thoughts in an expanded nutshell. Adding the angles to create more of a weave and distribute the loads more evenly throughout, adding to strength all around in every direction in the process.
I get Tom's train of thought with the highest stresses being in the top and the bottom. But that is not the point with the reenforcements . You wann put the reenforcements in plane with you force vectors. If you have access to FEM model a Sandwiched beam and you'll see that you increase the stresses on the interfaces by almost a magnitude. But if you model it so that your ridget layer is basicallz along the cross section it becomes stronger.
I think I forgot to mention it in the video - but thanks Shorey Designs for the inspiration!
www.shoreydesigns.com
My video from MRRF featuring David's work: ruclips.net/video/J54OfY1__fU/видео.html
Great video. I actually use reinforced fibers a lot, we build bicycle frame, velomobiles (sometimes called "banana bike") and special bicycle components. We use glass, carbon and kevlar for this. Strength depends on the type,thickness and weave of the material but even more important are the resin/fiber ratio and how compact the end result is.
Carbon is way stiffer than glass and kevlar is almost like a rubber band. Kevlar is mostly used in combination with carbon to prevent it from shearing apart on impact.
When using fibers, we always apply pressure to the end product either mechanically (by pressing the resin/fiber product in a 2-part mold), using vacuum (by placing the resin/fiber product in a bag and vacuuming all the air out or by applying pneumatic pressure (the product is made in a mold and the core is a balloon that is blown up to a few Bars of pressure). In this way the weave is pressed together and the layers are pressed on top of, partly into, each other. For us a 70% fiber ratio works best, so the product contains about 30% resin, but sometimes we make carbon sheets of 8-10mm thick that contain even more fiber. If you tap on that material with a hammer it sounds like a ceramic tile and it is very hard (does not flex at all) whereas for most things (like a bicycle frame, a steering bar or a front fork) you do want some flex.
The type of resin is also very important. Some resins are very brittle whereas other resins have more flex. A brittle resin with too few fiber content will result in the resin cracking up and the fibers shifting with tears and cracks in the fibers as a result. A more tenacious resin with a carbon/kevlar mix will end up like spring steel; hard to break, very flexible and very durable - this is even used as spring leaves by some companies.
I like to see what happens when you use short cut up fibers as suggested by another user too. We use 0.1 - 0.3mm glass and carbon fibers as fillers and those are mostly used in combination with glass bubbles and cotton fiber. The carbon or glass will add strength, the glass bubbles make it flow more easy and the cotton fiber make it thixotropic.Cotton is not suitable for 3D resin printing but mixing small fibers or glass bubbles is something that could be worth a try
I think 3D printing a mold and just making an epoxy/glass part would be easier at this point. Very cool tests!
yeah, and way stronger, even if just using polyester and chopped glass fiber.
@@hyphen2612 Yep. What if it was just made of Bondo? LOL
@@joeldriver381 waw i never think one product made out of only bondo, gonna try one 😂 keychain maybe?
I really enjoy these videos Tom. 👍
And I really enjoy yours
Thanks! Very much enjoying your content too!
Truly, a great idea! And definitely something to keep an eye on. Below I gave you some suggestions, based on my composites experience:
I think there were two main possible problems:
1.) Compatibility between the UV-resin and the glass fibres might be very poor. You would need to check the compatibility between the applied glass fibre silane-sizing and your matrix material. Sizing compositions are usually proprietary, so this is really hard to find out. I suspect that most UV-resins cure by radical mechanism, so a vinylsilane or methacrylsilane (or even Volan cloth) might work best. If, for example the fabric had an aminosilane applied, there is a chance that it would not react with the UV-resin.
2.) Impregnation quality could be poor. We do not know if the resin has fully wetted the reinforcement. There might be large voids within the fibre bundles, since no pressure was applied to compact the reinforcement layer and push air out. Looks like it at 7:32. Usually the individual fibre-bundles should appear almost invisible when properly impregnated. Maybe your cleaning agent at 6:27 has soaked into the fibre-reinforced parts prior to curing, which could cause a lot of problems.
10:50 and 14:06 The main failure mode looked like debonding and delamination, rather than fibre fracture - which would strongly agree with my theory. Therefore, the potential of the fibre reinforcement was not even closely exhausted. A continuous fibre-reinforced part must be both stiffer and a lot stronger than pure resin (thats common knowledge). A well-engineered fibre-reinforced composite usually fails in catastrophic manner. Here, the roving-reinforced composite failed by gradual delamination/debonding
Looove the editing! @3:15 printer disco? Yes please!
Interesting application towards engineered composites. Generally fiber composites have a resin volume fraction of 30% or less, and you'll only see improved strength and stiffness if the raw fibers are themselves stiffer and stronger than the matrix (maybe why the random orientation drywall fibers failed)
Can't be the only one from the community asking for a collab with Stefan from CNCkitchen ✌️
Great video and a very interesting experiment!
Thank You for performing these experiments. Reinforcing resin prints is what is on my mind.
Great choice of bed-banging music, Tom!
Nice video! Another reason why the strenght of the reinforced samples is not very high could be the fact that the printing resins do not adhere to the glass fibers like epoxi or polyester resins do. To transfer the external load that is applied on the resin to the fiber, a chemical bond between resin and fiber is needed. A specific resin designed for fiber reinforcement could get better results.
Totally agree. Was really looking like layer seperation that must come from that.
Great stuff! I have been using composites for years, combining with resin printers opens some very new directions!
Drop the beat! I LOVE how you selected and synced the beat to the thumping of the printer. Epic !!! :-)
Great job Tom. I would recommend getting ahold of a Instron test machine to run a proper tensile and compression test.
I think the reason the more coarse weave works is that those layers have holes/gaps where the resin can connect between layers. With the glass fiber paper, you create a total break inbetween each resin layer. So you loose some of the effect of it being a composite material?
So trying the paper again with holes or lines cut in would be very interesting.
Bruh this definitly deserves a thumbs up, I can see all the work you put into this
Very nice, you clearly worked really hard
This was a great idea! I've not seen anyone else on RUclips do this. Great video and I can see this technique gaining popularity. Thanks Tom.
Hm... on plastic (and filament) shredded fibers are often used. You could try those, but should be a similar result i guess. Great video 👍
This was going to be my comment suggestion.
Loose glass fibers are used in injection molding because they can go through the injectors. Not sure about the physical benefits, but I know Biolite camping stoves use glass reinforced plastic for temperature resistance.
Could be a fun follow up video Tom, doing weighted oven tests with reinforced samples.
Better than any netflix documentary. Nice editing. Nice shots. Nice music sync. Deep and experementary infos. Really gread vid.
I really like the blending background color. It gives such a nice and smooth contrast.
lol loving the editing.... bouncing along with it :D
On a more serious note, I was wondering about how loose fine fibers worked when suspended in the resin like the dye is,,, As long as its small enough and fine enough it should supend rather well without clumping, and shouldnt put pressure on the lcd panel.
Just might make prints a little more fuzzy
Could you try unidirectional fiberglass strands knowing your bending load.
Also could you try small chopped fiber just mixed into the resin?
So cool to see someone try this! i always thought about this as i work with composites!
Wow, this kind of videos about 3d printing is expected from CNC Kitchen and not from you, Tom. You actually did great !!!
Incredible video!
This on the Peopoly Phenom
Incredible ad comment! ;)
@@luislemus5552 with Kevlar to make bullet proof armor. 😂👍
Ryan Landry I was trying to think how I could do this for non flat prints but all I could keep thinking is I would also be reinforcing my supports 🤣😂 that would be fun to remove
@@UncleJessy 😂 good point! I didn't think of those problems. Well, back to the drawing board. I'll let you know if I come up with a solution. 😉👍
I have thought of doing this for some time but I was thinking of mixing the separated fibers into the resin so the print would just run with no pauses. Would be interesting to see this if you can do it (may be messy?).
I think if you could pull it off it would be superior than sheets, due to the fact that all of the fibers would be in a radom orientation so would be more structurally sound in all directions. Like fiber reinforced concrete.
And...if you cut the fibers into short-enough pieces, they should stay suspended (once mixed) in the vicous resin for a sufficient period of time.
@@scottre3220 Yeah I think finer is better. There's probably a threshold. Too long and they'll be pressed and orientate flat, too fine and might as well not be there. They put iron filings into concrete too as a strengthener, and they're pretty small.
Yeah search GRC on here for lots of videos covering chopped fibre in concrete.
TwistedF8 I’ve tried it with chopped carbon fibres. The results weren’t useable.
This is a fantastic direction for resin printing! Thank you for sharing!
Great tests Tom! Awesome idea.
6:12 This is some good printing music xD
Fascinating. I would like to see a follow-up video where you test resin-fiber slurries. FormLabs' Rigid is a glass-fiber slurry resin from what I remember.
This is so interesting! I love the experiments you do, they're so good. Thank you!
Tom, that's a genius idea! Imagine the ease of fabrication for home grade quads! Man, that's great! Thanks a lot!
Time to replicate CNCKitchen's test rig? Good concept, sketchy test results, I want to see a load curve. And I bet the fiber ones will go up sharper than pure resin ones.
Doing a tension pull test would be much better than a bending test like this
@@samuela6271 wouldn't say better, but better having both than just one for sure. It's all about the application of course.
In the end the test sure is quite imprecise, but it works somewhat as a comparison one, not raw data on the material.
Yo, they are both Germans if I recall right... Can't be that hard to do a collab 🤷
I'd be interested in seeing how loose fibers would work.
Wow, great video Tom!
Great idea and execution. Awesome vids:)
It almost seems like the eventual realization of this idea would be some sort of mixed-mode/media printing where the printer could insert sheets or strands of fiberglass from the side automatically during a print. Either way, super fascinating results and well played for showing your results even though they didn't match your hypothesis.
Jeah like it could have a roll of fiber on 1 side and a robot arm thing pull the layer from the roll between layers, and a cuter to cut off the roll of fiber at the end. Add custom G code and Presto! Innovation!
@@ot0m0t0 the difficult part is to do this without having voids in the laminate.
@@ot0m0t0 EXACTLY! I mean...how hard could it be, right? lolz
I would have loved to see a stretch-breaking test, rather then a "bending" stress test with the reinfoce parts!
Shouldn`t the reinforced parts be able to endure much more of a stretch-stres so to say?
You really synced the resin stamp to the music.. OMG details.
Your best yet. Kudos
How about chopped fibers mixed into the resin?
Should remove the hastle of trying to insert fiber layers into the print and lead to more isotropic performance.
That should work. But the fibers would probobly be pressed pretty much flat
I've been experimenting with chopped fibers quite a bit now, it works pretty well and the prints definitely are stronger, but it's quite hard to find a proper mixing ratio. Adding chopped fibers or glass beeds will thicken the resin quite significantly (that's what they are usually used for), so be careful of adding too much.
@@TheDr1Acula i work in the construction industry. We use a simular metod. But for some reason. If the fiber is of two diffrent lengts, it works way better. One shorter, and one longer.... and it should not be like much longer, something between 50-70% longer seams to work best.
Hardness, strength, toughness, brittleness, and ductility. All of these to consider for the material property needs of whatever you're making.
your setup is awesome 😍
Very cool video :) If you want to experiment further it would be fun to see some results for UD (unidirectional) fibers. Having all fibers along the 0-axis should give you a much stronger part. I might have some laying around at my workshop if you need a small sample :)
CNC kitchen has interred the chat
Glass fibre doesn’t have the exact or same strength as carbon fibre.
The entire test is flawed. Fiber reinforced parts are designed to deal with specific loads. It isn't just placing a bunch of sheets willy nilly and it magically becomes stronger.
Would be interesting to see how these parts performed in tension etc, great video and fantastic concept, thanks!
Awesom video and technic! This is pioneering!
So I though you were going to add individual fibers to the resin (like a lung cancer powder). This is interesting too though!
How were you able to plug the USB from the first try ? that is impossible!
The magic of editing!
this was really interesting, havnt even thought of it before..nice
Huh, thats a really interesting and counterintuitive outcome! Also, love the printer bouncing to the beat
Honestly, at this point I'd just invest in or make my own little cnc milling machine and just buy CF stock. This looks waaay to messy.
Or just do regular FDM printing and use the salt/sand remelting method described by a commenter in CNC Kitchen's video. Much cheaper and safer.
Netflix: Are you still watching?
Someone's son: 3:26
Edit: And the synced music is very high effort content creation, just noticed it!
A suggestion... When you are doing the bend test, the tensile stress in the upper region is taken by fibers only and compressive loads at bottom part is taken by the resign. Here, the resign is more flexible and can take more strain in compression. This shifts your neutral stress plane above the center plane and less fibers are taking majority of the load (that is the reason you are seeing top side of samples failing much often). The maximum load carrying capacity during bending then depends on the total tensile load carrying capacity of those contributing fibers. Further, the strains on upper fibers are more(due to bending curvature) compered to fibers close to neutral plane. This results in upper fibers being loaded earlier than the one below it which results into progressive failure from top to bottom which you can see in the sample with 6 layers of glass fibers.
During tensile testing the maximum tensile load the sample can handle is the combined force of all of the fiber layers. the maximum bending loads in similar way has relation with the fibers contributing to loads. A way of improving flexural rigidity is by adding reinforcement layers close to each other in a way that distance form the center plane remains nearly same for each of them. Using more flexible sheets at layers further away from center plane also helps, as those can sustain more strains before failure which are present at surface layers, and thus distributing the load evenly among remaining fibers. Resigns with more compressive strength would prove to be more effective in improving flexural rigidity. You can directly relate it to the RCC beams where rigidity of concrete provides strength against the compressive loads in the lower part of the neutral stress plane while tensile loads are handled by the steel rods.
Very clever! I don't see an immediate application, but a nice option I'm sure will come in handy.
I just look at resin printing. The gloves, the mess, the chemicals, and think no!
I've started resin printing 3 days ago. I have a lab mixed, 2 tubs of the right size and a solar turn table+UV lamp. I could do the full process without gloves (I never touch resin) but still put them just in case... Remove cover from printer, put gloves, unscrew platform, put above tub with magnet in it + alcool, slide metal ruler in the top part of the platform, release the platform which is suspended by the ruler in the alcool. Leave for 5 min, do the same with second tub, then put the patform head-up on a paper towell while the alcool evaporate. Close the top for the 2 tubs (to stop the alcool smell). Take a thin knife cutter, remove the part and put it on the platform. I've done the eiffel tower, the ramps on the first floor are thiner than one of my hair and prints perfectly... The only time I had to invest is in finding the perfect tub size for the platform to fit inside. You should try if you are not printing a lot of parts...
awesome music in this one tom!
Editing was on point
Thank you, very well explained
Absolutely Brilliant Thomas, that was a super awesome video and such a clever concept. Thanks for sharing this.
Thanks for the video and tips !!
Great video! Hopefully your hard work will save time & money for others.
Thank you for making a mess on our behalf! Keep doing what you do!
as always FANTASTIC video, deep going, easy to understand, one more LIKE my friend, please keep going with the good experiments :-)
Really well done video, love the new style of content, and the LTT jokes here and there are a blast, great to see you making more videos again :)
This is why I'm subscribed! Push the limits!
I was FRP inspector for years use the RTP1 book as a guidance and astm for pipeping will give you the right amount layers of material to have the desirable strength. Roll out the material first make sure that air is out for max strength with the same resin then 3d print on top of that. Do a tensile test, barcole test and a burn out to see how strong is your compositive. Like your show I do 3d print as a hobby. Thanks for your dedication.
Great video bro! Thanks!
Move in right direction. Good idea, good work!
This was so awesome. I was wondering about safety. Good to know that you were keeping yourself safe.
I was wondering about the glass fibers that are sometimes added to concrete.
Wow that is game changing idea.
That why I love Thomas. That was awesome. One thing to try if you feel like it. In boat building they stack the glass fibers directly on top of each other with minimum resin between them so it ends up like a single fat glass fiber piece.
Another thing they do is that they press the layers to push the air out of the glass fiber but I can’t think of a way to do it in the printer.
Very good video! I was asking my self the difference weight between each piece
Another suggestion for chopped fibers within the resin! Awesome vid though!
Seeing the printer paper reinforced part looking perfectly clear made me wonder; what would it look like if you used a 2D printer first? You could incorporate some really neat designs.
Very good video.... Would love to see a carbon fiber and Kevlar resin infusion test
A bench grinder would work wonders for that fiber glass work. Great test!
I used fiberglass cloth in my model airplane builds, especially over foam air frames. Something that we learned to do is to turn the fiber direction by 45 degrees to the layer before it, to change the directions that the stresses act upon it. This helps in the strength of the part being made or covered.
Pretty cool idea! One reason the wallpaper stuff was underperforming might be the coatings that are (not) applied to it. Fibers meant for strength in laminates usually are coated in one way or another to provide good adhesion with the intended resin system.
You could quite easily imagine a setup that automates a process like this as well. Just keep the fabric on a roll, and cut and submerge a new layer every time.
Tom this was a GREAT set of experiments! I know for this you used just a *generic* brittle resin, but if you take it further, I would love to see how much of a difference it makes with *tough* resins, such as Siraya Blu, or even a Blu/Tenacious mix.
I agree, the tenacious would be the best. I feel that the britle side of normal printing is killing it. A flex resin re-enforce with fiber would be very good (also not isotropic anymore...).
Just signed up for your Patreon because of this video. More like this!
I really appreciate this mix of traditional fiber composite and resin printing. It's something I never thought about but is a really interesting idea. For next time I would read more into the process for more traditional methods of making/designing fiber resin composite structures. It should give some clarity to the results, like the effectiveness of the loose fiber(tape) VS the woven variety, and give some ideas to explore. Also instead of paper try old clothes for a cheap accessible way to reinforce your prints. And as many people have commented safety first.
Interesting that this works. I was thinking about how to do this too but did not have an idea on how to set this up.
Another side effect might be, that the model sticks better to the base plate.
Literaly got the add for exactly this
Extra groovy vid today Tom, hope to see you testing the salt baked fdm prints once you’ve got the time!
just today i used the SIRAYA Tech simple clear resin, what i like about it is that it's super thin so it flows easily and is easy to cleanup. also very fond of Phrozen water washable rapid resin. it kinda sucks to wash it with straight water but you can cut your alcohol with water big time so its more economical, and it prints pretty quick i was getting away with 5 or 6 second thick layers on my creality ld-002r
Great job! 🤙
OMGsh. How much were your fingers itching after this? Thanks for the awesome and informative video!
More on this topic please
Great video.
Tom, Great content as always. I would love to see the results doing it at 90 degrees. That might show how the fibers shine.