These are truly exceptional streams. I grew up at the tail-end of the Apartheid in the Western Cape - which wasn't majority black, but majority coloured. The city of Cape Town was a sort of English holdout but even so was majority Afrikaans. At the time, it all felt a little synthetic as we had friends of all races and the Western Cape was pretty luxurious outside of the growing townships. That is until you left the Western Cape and entered more African areas and then you wondered how long it could hold out. I returned recently after many years away and I would say that there has been a striking amount of integration in some ways, where you can't reliably predict an accent based on someone's appearance at all, but at the same time the country is in clear, terminal decline. We grew up with a degree of concern for our safety but it was still safe to ride around our neighbourhoods on our bikes. Now the shadow of violent crime looms over everyone and everything. Barbed wire on tall walls. It's sad. Amazing food and scenery, though. Beautiful place.
The country is not really in that much of a decline, i lived there for some years. The country struggles massively with a shortage of capacity. When you have a state that was built to take care of about 5million, and suddenly it also have to take care of additional 50 million, you got to go through an extended time where everyone have to endure some chaos and troubles...
@@EmilReikoThe problem is that capacity has just continuously been lowered for the past 30 years. In the 90s and early 2000s, South Africa did have the capacity to provide for the majority of the population. However, due to insane amounts of corruption, extortion, and mafias of various kinds, this has fallen apart, and therefore there has in fact been a noticeable decline, rather than improvement. This is why most South Africans one speaks to will say "things were going fairly well, but started to fall apart around 2008". However, I'm very glad you enjoyed your stay in the country. As the original commenter said, the nature is beautiful, and the food is good.
Would AM be interested in doing a conceptual history of the White Russian emigres in the interwar years? I have been reading about it recently and its fascinating. Would love AM’s take.
That would be fascinating. There are parallels of what happened to the ones in Europe to what happened to those in China. It would also be interesting to cover their influence on modern Russia, which is interesting itself.
I used to date a South African woman (white). I think a lot of them know only too well why their country is a ruin, but they will rarely admit it in public. It serves as a good example of where we may be going if globalism is not stopped.
I have a question, was the apartheid system for a great part support by Afrikaners or for a part also by the British white settlers? I am Dutch and the history and relations of my country, with South Africa was full with tensions and contradictions. Thanks you for this great docu upload
@@somerandom181 Ik wil je bedanken voor je uitleg, dat maakt het voor mij duidelijker. In de media werd er vaak een éénzijdig beeld gegeven, alsof apartheid alleen door de Afrikaners werd ondersteund, ik had wel een sterk vermoeden dat het minder éénzijdig was. Bijvoorbeeld toen de scholieren in Sharpville Gingen staken tegen het verplicht leren van het Afrikaans op scholen. Groeten Peter.A.B Deschaux Roosendaal
Thanks for the video. My aunt and uncle used to live in South Africa during the '80s. My uncle never really talked about it but my aunt shared a story where she was shocked to witness segregation (outdoor pools were segregated between blacks and whites - she and her friend had to either swim in different pools or return home). I have been curious about Apartheid South Africa in the reasons for why their society was formed in that way, but also more in Apartheid's existence. Even growing up in Canada where we would hear of Mandela as a hero, I wondered why South Africans I knew were either disappointed in him or didn't want to talk about him (my thoughts were that they opposed Apartheid society, but felt that Mandela didn't create enough of "a change").
This is the first time I've heard the Bantu were there before the Whites, literally every South African I've heard, including extremely well educated ones, have said they were newcomers themselves.
I've seen documentaries where they show these old contracts between the first European settlers and the locals. The agreements were the less desirable and mostly uninhabited land is where the Afrikaaners would settle, having paid for land. In regards to the Bantu expansion, it is a historical fact. Many modern historians try to explain it as a rapid but peaceful expansion of pastoralist- agriculturalist Bantu speakers across Africa, replacing hunter-gatherers. Meanwhile, the indo European expansion is accepted as having been a violent absorption and replacement of pre indo European populations. This seems to be mostly a political/ moral differentiation rather than the bantus having actually replaced other populations peacefully lol.
Oh I see, AM is explaining the history from the viewpoint of a British Imperialist. I've primarily seen documentaries and read books from an Afrikaaner or black African perspective.
I don't think that's what was going on, it sounds very like he is taking from contemporary western academic sources, which are not very sympathetic to the Boers and are quite likely being economical with the truth. My question was because I wanted to know if it was actually the case that the Bantu had long been there, given everything I've heard from numerous reliable sources states or suggests the opposite.
@vorynrosethorn903 I, too, wonder the same. Fair enough, the sources he's citing sounds very pro British and anti Afrikaans from as far as I've gotten through the video.
They sound less pro-British than fundamentally liberal and egalitarian. I have a strong suspicion about the circumstances in which they were written, given the many references to 'Christian Nationlism' and the recent relevance of that phrase, as well as the fact that to draw from a context other than the Boers might reveal some of the tricks of framing going on, that many of this concepts were just a familiar to a pre-enlightenment Christian, or from those insulated from the influence of liberal theology (such as the Eastern Orthodox). By putting these ideas within a moral frame comparable to liberalism they can divert around the fundamental Christian theological beliefs that underpin them, and can avoid admitting to Christians that the hostility to such ideas is because liberalism is itself hostile rival religion to Christianity. I don't like the moral framing at all, as it is intentioned and deceptive, it seeks to smuggle in its own moral assumptions, as if it successfully does so it wins the argument before it has started. I'm not sure AM is used to this type of deceit, as it is usually specifically latent in Marxist historians, but any younger historian already knows to be wary of them. Given it was an unfamiliar topic I fear he let his guard down.
If Kuyper's ideas were to be applied, the Africans (and others too) would have had to have real control over their own affairs, and there would have been pillarization within a single state rather than separation (even of a fairer nature), Not that that would ever have ever practical, this really came to be about Afrikaner (and white) baaskap.
This was an excellent discussion of apartheid. Also check out these 2 books. P.Eric Louw The Rise, Fall and Legacy of Apartheid (Praeger) and P.E.Louw Decolonization and white-Africans. The ‘winds of change’, resistance and beyond. (Academica Press)
Same could be said it rose because of western markets. Who do you think Apartheid gov did biz with, other Africans LOL. Few can do without the West market & win be it may its Mugabe, Castro, Hitler, Boers etc they should've known better. Next is Malema, he'll learn that lesson.
@Star-hg1kt These ((people)) are the problem and more whites around tge world both left and tight are learning about them more than in any time period in history.
It may be too niche, but the conceptional history of Canada would be something you would find very interesting considering the Rhodesian and South Africa streams. Seems like you are doing the daughters of Albion series but kind of in reverse.
@@SquareNoggin If you are interested, one the seminar books on the life and death of the historical Canadian Nations is George Grant's "Lament for a Nation."
Another very interesting discussion AM. Will you anytime soon work on a video discussing the PVDE/PIDE secret police in Portugal beginning with its drafting process in the 1930s till its formal end in 1974? For everyone else who would like to see this, please like the comment so AM can see it. Much appreciated all!
This has left me wondering how many of these sources were created it response to the offer of grants to academics on the topic of 'Christian Nationalism'. Unfortunately I think a South African probably would have been of great help on this stream, as it seemed overly polemic. Could I go so far as to recommend sending this to Marhobane for his thoughts and then having a discussion on this topic.
I would appreciate feedback from Marhobane and Conscious Caracal if you'd like to send it to them, though I was capable of covering this subject solo. As you can see from the citations most of the scholarship cited was prior to Mandela's election victory and long before 'Christian Nationalism' became a popular derogative. Indeed, I don't see the term as a derogative, nor was that my intention, nor do I see how it could've come across that way. I don't understand what you mean by overly polemic. p.s. in response to your other comment I've never heard it referenced that the proto-Bantus didn't exist east of the "Great Fish River" the traditional boundary of the old Cape Colony. It was mentioned explicitly that there was no consolidated black presence in the Cape.
I'm not in touch with them, I'm just a humble subscriber of Marhobane's channel and immediately thought he'd have a great deal to add given his knowledge of so much about his country. You quoted extensively, and many of those sources were rather blatantly framing the language careful to refute the self-perception of the boers without coming out into the open and admitting moral opposition. From my experiences I am very touchy about such narrative control as it usually hides purposeful omissions or may even be a sign of narratives being constructed out of disparate parts which are fused to look like something they aren't. Much of how things were said made me very suspicious that there is some smoke and mirrors involved somewere, as I can sense it in the way the arguments are constructed, but as I am not a local to the region I can't say what parts have been touched up or presented disingenuously. I don't doubt that you yourself are well intentioned, you have proven that in every online interaction, but the sources smell funny, and I don't like it. As a youtube person the only way of getting in touch with someone be leaving a comment under a video, which probably wouldn't be seen. You would probably know better how to send stuff to people, if they were on Twitter or the like. My understanding was that the Bantu started in the North-West of Africa and took a very long time to move South. I presumed that 1500 year old cities would count as consolidated settlement, certainly it would invalidate the claim that they were no less recent than the Europeans.
@@vorynrosethorn903 I wasn't passively imbibing and presenting sources that someone else gave me and told me to read. Every segment and quote was carefully selected and dissected from over 1000 pages of my own research since the Rhodesia stream. I'm under no illusions about the political leanings of the writers - indeed I went out of my way to clarify that point if their language pointed to a certain "moral opposition". This is a certainty as "anti-apartheid" is the academic consensus.. if I feel that a segment has "utility" I'll use it even if I don't concur with it entirely. Indeed any confusion seems to stem from the fact that my own "moral preferences" weren't overt enough. They weren't overt because they weren't relevant to an objective discussion. My conclusions are my own and radically different from many of the writers that I encountered and cited.
That is a fair point, but for the first hour the quotes are extensive and many of the inherent value judgements make it through intact, which given that I am suspicious that the presentation of events is constructed around a narrative purpose rather than the narrative being strictly impartial makes me suspect that many of the nuances were left out and that a native boer could probably shed considerable light on the actual context and motivation beyond that investigated within the sources. Unfortunately there are several sphere of information in academia in which ideological orthodoxy is deeply entrenched and practically no heterodox opinion is tolerated, irrespective of evidence. Unfortunately in such cases reading can only ever go so far, as people more localised will typically know what was left out, is a bit of a stretch or is the artificial creation of the academic culture and a spiral of internal affirmation rather than real.
@@vorynrosethorn903Irving Hexham (the most oft cited academic in the first 40 mins or so) is actually a theologian whose insights I found to be unique as the principle scholar of the origins of Afrikaner Calvinism. Indeed I quoted him taking umbridge with the cliche that the "16th Century Dutch" Church was primitive and reactionary, a view he regards as the legacy of enlightenment prejudice. Indeed, given the distinctive nature of the Church in South Africa, the discussion of Apartheid origins was inspired by his insights. I've already explained that there was no consolidated Black presence in the Cape. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that the reference to slavery was a condemnation of the Boers, even a justification for British Imperialism, when in fact I was explaining the impetus and rationale for the Great Trek and the religious divergence between the Anglicans and Calvinists that reinforced Afrikaner identity. This was confirmed when I directly cited Totius. In essence eie and apartheid were the consequence of "otherness". There are other instances but I see limited utility in going example by example as I doubt I'll disabuse you of your supposition. If you feel I was myopic and unqualified for this, I would suggest you make an active effort to reach out to Mahrobane, Conscious Caracal or another South African content creator (they're on Twitter) to make a response video. I would welcome such engagement. I disagree fundamentally that there were insidious narratives that I missed and that I am stuck in an artificial creation of internal affirmation. I wont comment on this any further.
That's utter nonsense. The president of Egypt's Supreme Constitutional Court is a Christian by the name Paulos Iskandar. The largest and wealthiest conglomerate in Egypt (Orascom) is owned by the Christian Sawiris family, which is closely tied to the military establishment... that same family even has de-facto ownership of a famous sea-resort town called Gouna. And recently the egyptian government completed the Nativity of Christ Cathedral, the largest in the middle east in the newly built capital city. Lastly, military conscription in egypt applies to all citizens equally, both Christian and Muslim men are expected to serve in the military.
@@samyebeid4534 its not nonse but thank you for stopping by and writing that. You look at the state of Egypts history there are plenty of moments where they massacred coptic and catholic people. I feel like you are pent up and angry at me. I see the value in what you have written and I am also grateful for this information. Can you give me a reference for this please so I know theres no bs? Cheers
As a black South African this was a good view of apartheid which I’ve never been really exposed to, I was always on the side of the fact that apartheid ended because economically it wasn’t sustainable, but it’s good to hear that it just want that, lol AND as an ANC supporter, as much as the communist hanger is there, but I don’t think it’s as pronounced as you might think, a lot of the people that started the ANC were land lords and industrialists who believe in the capitalist systems of the west. If you were someone who followed contemporary South African politics you would know that
The rainbow nation idea was not only to appease big business but also society, and even the whole apartheid thing in our country in the perspective of a lot of ‘blacks’, they really believe it to be something that was done because of it was the thing of the time, you know? People have come to look past it, that’s why the second biggest party in SA politics is voted by majority black people but ‘ran’ by whites… so yeah the ‘revenge’ thing is not as pronounced as you might think, as much as apartheid is blamed for a lot of stuff, it’s something as a young person (male) that I hear once a year, our conservatives look at what is taking place and what took place from 1994. What I WILL SAY THE ANC has done that is striking is like just ‘erase’ apartheid, like it never existed, it’s through this channel I learnt of past Prime Ministers and stuff, so yeah, is it bad? Is it good? Eyy we’re happy😂 lol
I'm not sure any form of barbarism is advanced. Colonialism is merely the settlement of ones own people in a new land. In a sense every populated area of the world is a colonial acquisition, either from nature or from the last group that was there. It is not a question of right but a question of strength and the will to carry it through against the interests of others. As we have seen the prize for weakness is to be colonised in turn.
Mandela moderate? That was a highly verbose and elaborate discussion to then come to such a shit tier conclusion. Necklacing and advocating white dispossession? A moderate because he courted whites who'd already actively betrayed their people? Am I missing something here?
I was attempting to understand why the majority of whites and Afrikaners supported the abolition of Apartheid and de Klerk's transfer of power. The presentation of Mandela as a "moderate" (not my personal verdict on him or the ANC) is in relation to policy makers in the 1980s and 90s and white public opinion. Note how I explained that a united South African identity is absurd and that the Rainbow Nation is a dubious and failing experiment.
@@ApostolicMajesty That's fair enough. I apologize for my misunderstanding (which is not on you) and the importance of exploring the history AS HISTORY as opposed to showcasing it through the lens of a rational or political 'appellant actionis' is certainly valuable. I can understand the point you're making here because all these systems ultimately failed and were unworkable because they had unrealistic aspirations. I perhaps shouldn't risk pointing out the obvious (as if you didn't already know, so this isn't meant to insult your intelligence) but some failures are more equal than others (as it were), the perfect should never be the enemy of the good, and apartheid's failure is a panacea compared to the failure of post-apartheid South Africa. Perhaps those points are so obvious they don't really bear mentioning but in the midst of the breadth and depth of the undertaking you successfully engaged in with this presentation, it should never be forgotten that this is all underpinned by race, and one need not look any further. I think it was Ockham who warned against unnecessarily positing entities.
@@ApostolicMajesty they supported it because they lost nothing, they basically still own most of the land the economy is their control and they can now just shift the blame to blackness when things go south
Like the Jews, the Afrikaners were traumatized by their collective experience in concentration camps. Both nations overreacted. The Boers lost and the Israelis should study their erstwhile ally closely so as not to repeat that mistake. It’s pronounced “Yan Smuts…”
It's less so about them being traumatized and more so about the desire to be rid of the English Yoke that has so stubbornly clung to their flesh; which in no small part is the reason for continued hostility between the two Ethnic groups. (The Boers naturally not being Ethnically, Linguistically, Religiously nor Culturally Anglo to begin with.)
I believe it’s higher than that: around 13%. There is a very-entertaining movie whose title I can’t remember, but I think “potato” is in the title. A white couple has a child whose genotype is no longer suppressed and their daughter is clearly Coloured. A geneticist testifies that Afrikaners are approximately 13% African or so and defends her as she is accused of having committed adultery - and worse - miscegenation. A true story and heart-wrenching.
@@thermionic1234567 Nope. This is a false claim. Most Afrikaners are 99% European. These statistics you are using have serious problems and were created by those who have an anti-Afrikaner axe to grind.
Kuyper's quoted view on the Tower of Babel's significance for seperateness is so weak! Who on earth said that equality and integration = oneness of language?🤦🏾♂️
You'd be surprised, even before political unity there have been several attempts by leftists to create a single world language, both by creating new ones and by stripping old ones of character and subtlety (in order to create purely 'scientific' meaning).
The governments BELA Bill would stand to refute this point. The ANC government has been pursuing a course of forced integration as opposed to one of self-determination ever since they assumed power; which explains their hatred for the otherwise innocent Town of Orania. (Their only sin being that of cultural preservation and a desire for self-determination.)
This channel is beyond amazing. Indescribable how good this channel is.
it's rather LARPy for starters
@@coreyander286 Shhh! You're trying to hard, pal.
Raamen
donate money or even a manual typewriter
@@coreyander286this man has never held a real principle in his life
These are truly exceptional streams.
I grew up at the tail-end of the Apartheid in the Western Cape - which wasn't majority black, but majority coloured. The city of Cape Town was a sort of English holdout but even so was majority Afrikaans. At the time, it all felt a little synthetic as we had friends of all races and the Western Cape was pretty luxurious outside of the growing townships. That is until you left the Western Cape and entered more African areas and then you wondered how long it could hold out.
I returned recently after many years away and I would say that there has been a striking amount of integration in some ways, where you can't reliably predict an accent based on someone's appearance at all, but at the same time the country is in clear, terminal decline. We grew up with a degree of concern for our safety but it was still safe to ride around our neighbourhoods on our bikes. Now the shadow of violent crime looms over everyone and everything. Barbed wire on tall walls. It's sad.
Amazing food and scenery, though. Beautiful place.
The country is not really in that much of a decline, i lived there for some years. The country struggles massively with a shortage of capacity. When you have a state that was built to take care of about 5million, and suddenly it also have to take care of additional 50 million, you got to go through an extended time where everyone have to endure some chaos and troubles...
proximity is destiny
@@EmilReikoThe problem is that capacity has just continuously been lowered for the past 30 years. In the 90s and early 2000s, South Africa did have the capacity to provide for the majority of the population. However, due to insane amounts of corruption, extortion, and mafias of various kinds, this has fallen apart, and therefore there has in fact been a noticeable decline, rather than improvement. This is why most South Africans one speaks to will say "things were going fairly well, but started to fall apart around 2008". However, I'm very glad you enjoyed your stay in the country. As the original commenter said, the nature is beautiful, and the food is good.
Would AM be interested in doing a conceptual history of the White Russian emigres in the interwar years? I have been reading about it recently and its fascinating. Would love AM’s take.
That would be fascinating. There are parallels of what happened to the ones in Europe to what happened to those in China.
It would also be interesting to cover their influence on modern Russia, which is interesting itself.
I used to date a South African woman (white). I think a lot of them know only too well why their country is a ruin, but they will rarely admit it in public. It serves as a good example of where we may be going if globalism is not stopped.
I have a question, was the apartheid system for a great part support by Afrikaners or for a part also by the British white settlers?
I am Dutch and the history and relations of my country, with South Africa was full with tensions and contradictions. Thanks you for this great docu upload
@@somerandom181 thank you for you're comment it makes it better to understand. Not the upressing but the situation in South Africa
@@somerandom181 I just want to thank you for explaning the situation in South Africa, and my English writting is a bit mixed up, my excuse
@@somerandom181 Ik wil je bedanken voor je uitleg, dat maakt het voor mij duidelijker. In de media werd er vaak een éénzijdig beeld gegeven, alsof apartheid alleen door de Afrikaners werd ondersteund, ik had wel een sterk vermoeden dat het minder éénzijdig was. Bijvoorbeeld toen de scholieren in Sharpville
Gingen staken tegen het verplicht leren van het Afrikaans op scholen.
Groeten Peter.A.B Deschaux Roosendaal
Thank you once again, AM.
Thanks for the video.
My aunt and uncle used to live in South Africa during the '80s. My uncle never really talked about it but my aunt shared a story where she was shocked to witness segregation (outdoor pools were segregated between blacks and whites - she and her friend had to either swim in different pools or return home).
I have been curious about Apartheid South Africa in the reasons for why their society was formed in that way, but also more in Apartheid's existence. Even growing up in Canada where we would hear of Mandela as a hero, I wondered why South Africans I knew were either disappointed in him or didn't want to talk about him (my thoughts were that they opposed Apartheid society, but felt that Mandela didn't create enough of "a change").
This is the first time I've heard the Bantu were there before the Whites, literally every South African I've heard, including extremely well educated ones, have said they were newcomers themselves.
I've seen documentaries where they show these old contracts between the first European settlers and the locals. The agreements were the less desirable and mostly uninhabited land is where the Afrikaaners would settle, having paid for land. In regards to the Bantu expansion, it is a historical fact. Many modern historians try to explain it as a rapid but peaceful expansion of pastoralist- agriculturalist Bantu speakers across Africa, replacing hunter-gatherers. Meanwhile, the indo European expansion is accepted as having been a violent absorption and replacement of pre indo European populations. This seems to be mostly a political/ moral differentiation rather than the bantus having actually replaced other populations peacefully lol.
Oh I see, AM is explaining the history from the viewpoint of a British Imperialist. I've primarily seen documentaries and read books from an Afrikaaner or black African perspective.
I don't think that's what was going on, it sounds very like he is taking from contemporary western academic sources, which are not very sympathetic to the Boers and are quite likely being economical with the truth.
My question was because I wanted to know if it was actually the case that the Bantu had long been there, given everything I've heard from numerous reliable sources states or suggests the opposite.
@vorynrosethorn903 I, too, wonder the same. Fair enough, the sources he's citing sounds very pro British and anti Afrikaans from as far as I've gotten through the video.
They sound less pro-British than fundamentally liberal and egalitarian. I have a strong suspicion about the circumstances in which they were written, given the many references to 'Christian Nationlism' and the recent relevance of that phrase, as well as the fact that to draw from a context other than the Boers might reveal some of the tricks of framing going on, that many of this concepts were just a familiar to a pre-enlightenment Christian, or from those insulated from the influence of liberal theology (such as the Eastern Orthodox). By putting these ideas within a moral frame comparable to liberalism they can divert around the fundamental Christian theological beliefs that underpin them, and can avoid admitting to Christians that the hostility to such ideas is because liberalism is itself hostile rival religion to Christianity.
I don't like the moral framing at all, as it is intentioned and deceptive, it seeks to smuggle in its own moral assumptions, as if it successfully does so it wins the argument before it has started.
I'm not sure AM is used to this type of deceit, as it is usually specifically latent in Marxist historians, but any younger historian already knows to be wary of them. Given it was an unfamiliar topic I fear he let his guard down.
I've never seen a better video on Apartheid than this. Can't believe I could watch this for free
Can you please please please please do one appraising the British Raj (possibly including pre-1857 etc)?
I enjoyed how your pronunciation gradually improved throughout the stream, by the way.
Tips for Afrikaans pronunciation: "y" and "ei" are both pronounced "ay", so Strydom is "stray-dawm" and Apartheid is "Apart-hate".
If Kuyper's ideas were to be applied, the Africans (and others too) would have had to have real control over their own affairs, and there would have been pillarization within a single state rather than separation (even of a fairer nature), Not that that would ever have ever practical, this really came to be about Afrikaner (and white) baaskap.
This was an excellent discussion of apartheid. Also check out these 2 books. P.Eric Louw The Rise, Fall and Legacy of Apartheid (Praeger) and P.E.Louw Decolonization and white-Africans. The ‘winds of change’, resistance and beyond. (Academica Press)
Lived in South Africa for 10 years and didn't learn much about any of this. Great effort! Also, hope to see you contributing again to Lotus Eaters!
It only fell due to outside occupied western interference like Rhodesia.
Same could be said it rose because of western markets. Who do you think Apartheid gov did biz with, other Africans LOL. Few can do without the West market & win be it may its Mugabe, Castro, Hitler, Boers etc they should've known better. Next is Malema, he'll learn that lesson.
@Star-hg1kt These ((people)) are the problem and more whites around tge world both left and tight are learning about them more than in any time period in history.
It may be too niche, but the conceptional history of Canada would be something you would find very interesting considering the Rhodesian and South Africa streams. Seems like you are doing the daughters of Albion series but kind of in reverse.
I would certainly appreciate that very much. I've had trouble tracking down Canadian historians who's perspective on this I find engaging.
@@SquareNoggin If you are interested, one the seminar books on the life and death of the historical Canadian Nations is George Grant's "Lament for a Nation."
AM is incredible. Boss sh1t from our favourite historian.
This is wonderfully informative, thank you very much.
Fascinating.
Another very interesting discussion AM. Will you anytime soon work on a video discussing the PVDE/PIDE secret police in Portugal beginning with its drafting process in the 1930s till its formal end in 1974? For everyone else who would like to see this, please like the comment so AM can see it. Much appreciated all!
AM takes you to another place, regardless.
First and how did you survive so long. I like the expansive reading list. Very nice as well as the video. What could have been indeed.
Good stream
This has left me wondering how many of these sources were created it response to the offer of grants to academics on the topic of 'Christian Nationalism'.
Unfortunately I think a South African probably would have been of great help on this stream, as it seemed overly polemic.
Could I go so far as to recommend sending this to Marhobane for his thoughts and then having a discussion on this topic.
I would appreciate feedback from Marhobane and Conscious Caracal if you'd like to send it to them, though I was capable of covering this subject solo.
As you can see from the citations most of the scholarship cited was prior to Mandela's election victory and long before 'Christian Nationalism' became a popular derogative. Indeed, I don't see the term as a derogative, nor was that my intention, nor do I see how it could've come across that way.
I don't understand what you mean by overly polemic.
p.s. in response to your other comment I've never heard it referenced that the proto-Bantus didn't exist east of the "Great Fish River" the traditional boundary of the old Cape Colony. It was mentioned explicitly that there was no consolidated black presence in the Cape.
I'm not in touch with them, I'm just a humble subscriber of Marhobane's channel and immediately thought he'd have a great deal to add given his knowledge of so much about his country.
You quoted extensively, and many of those sources were rather blatantly framing the language careful to refute the self-perception of the boers without coming out into the open and admitting moral opposition. From my experiences I am very touchy about such narrative control as it usually hides purposeful omissions or may even be a sign of narratives being constructed out of disparate parts which are fused to look like something they aren't.
Much of how things were said made me very suspicious that there is some smoke and mirrors involved somewere, as I can sense it in the way the arguments are constructed, but as I am not a local to the region I can't say what parts have been touched up or presented disingenuously.
I don't doubt that you yourself are well intentioned, you have proven that in every online interaction, but the sources smell funny, and I don't like it.
As a youtube person the only way of getting in touch with someone be leaving a comment under a video, which probably wouldn't be seen. You would probably know better how to send stuff to people, if they were on Twitter or the like.
My understanding was that the Bantu started in the North-West of Africa and took a very long time to move South. I presumed that 1500 year old cities would count as consolidated settlement, certainly it would invalidate the claim that they were no less recent than the Europeans.
@@vorynrosethorn903 I wasn't passively imbibing and presenting sources that someone else gave me and told me to read. Every segment and quote was carefully selected and dissected from over 1000 pages of my own research since the Rhodesia stream. I'm under no illusions about the political leanings of the writers - indeed I went out of my way to clarify that point if their language pointed to a certain "moral opposition". This is a certainty as "anti-apartheid" is the academic consensus.. if I feel that a segment has "utility" I'll use it even if I don't concur with it entirely. Indeed any confusion seems to stem from the fact that my own "moral preferences" weren't overt enough. They weren't overt because they weren't relevant to an objective discussion. My conclusions are my own and radically different from many of the writers that I encountered and cited.
That is a fair point, but for the first hour the quotes are extensive and many of the inherent value judgements make it through intact, which given that I am suspicious that the presentation of events is constructed around a narrative purpose rather than the narrative being strictly impartial makes me suspect that many of the nuances were left out and that a native boer could probably shed considerable light on the actual context and motivation beyond that investigated within the sources.
Unfortunately there are several sphere of information in academia in which ideological orthodoxy is deeply entrenched and practically no heterodox opinion is tolerated, irrespective of evidence. Unfortunately in such cases reading can only ever go so far, as people more localised will typically know what was left out, is a bit of a stretch or is the artificial creation of the academic culture and a spiral of internal affirmation rather than real.
@@vorynrosethorn903Irving Hexham (the most oft cited academic in the first 40 mins or so) is actually a theologian whose insights I found to be unique as the principle scholar of the origins of Afrikaner Calvinism. Indeed I quoted him taking umbridge with the cliche that the "16th Century Dutch" Church was primitive and reactionary, a view he regards as the legacy of enlightenment prejudice. Indeed, given the distinctive nature of the Church in South Africa, the discussion of Apartheid origins was inspired by his insights. I've already explained that there was no consolidated Black presence in the Cape. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that the reference to slavery was a condemnation of the Boers, even a justification for British Imperialism, when in fact I was explaining the impetus and rationale for the Great Trek and the religious divergence between the Anglicans and Calvinists that reinforced Afrikaner identity. This was confirmed when I directly cited Totius. In essence eie and apartheid were the consequence of "otherness". There are other instances but I see limited utility in going example by example as I doubt I'll disabuse you of your supposition.
If you feel I was myopic and unqualified for this, I would suggest you make an active effort to reach out to Mahrobane, Conscious Caracal or another South African content creator (they're on Twitter) to make a response video. I would welcome such engagement. I disagree fundamentally that there were insidious narratives that I missed and that I am stuck in an artificial creation of internal affirmation. I wont comment on this any further.
What i thought apartheid ended because my grandpa did not want to be a citizen of Bophutatswana
Tbh Syria and Egypt are apartied states aswell as christians do not have representation!
That's utter nonsense. The president of Egypt's Supreme Constitutional Court is a Christian by the name Paulos Iskandar. The largest and wealthiest conglomerate in Egypt (Orascom) is owned by the Christian Sawiris family, which is closely tied to the military establishment... that same family even has de-facto ownership of a famous sea-resort town called Gouna. And recently the egyptian government completed the Nativity of Christ Cathedral, the largest in the middle east in the newly built capital city. Lastly, military conscription in egypt applies to all citizens equally, both Christian and Muslim men are expected to serve in the military.
@@samyebeid4534 its not nonse but thank you for stopping by and writing that. You look at the state of Egypts history there are plenty of moments where they massacred coptic and catholic people.
I feel like you are pent up and angry at me. I see the value in what you have written and I am also grateful for this information. Can you give me a reference for this please so I know theres no bs? Cheers
As a black South African this was a good view of apartheid which I’ve never been really exposed to, I was always on the side of the fact that apartheid ended because economically it wasn’t sustainable, but it’s good to hear that it just want that, lol AND as an ANC supporter, as much as the communist hanger is there, but I don’t think it’s as pronounced as you might think, a lot of the people that started the ANC were land lords and industrialists who believe in the capitalist systems of the west. If you were someone who followed contemporary South African politics you would know that
The rainbow nation idea was not only to appease big business but also society, and even the whole apartheid thing in our country in the perspective of a lot of ‘blacks’, they really believe it to be something that was done because of it was the thing of the time, you know? People have come to look past it, that’s why the second biggest party in SA politics is voted by majority black people but ‘ran’ by whites… so yeah the ‘revenge’ thing is not as pronounced as you might think, as much as apartheid is blamed for a lot of stuff, it’s something as a young person (male) that I hear once a year, our conservatives look at what is taking place and what took place from 1994. What I WILL SAY THE ANC has done that is striking is like just ‘erase’ apartheid, like it never existed, it’s through this channel I learnt of past Prime Ministers and stuff, so yeah, is it bad? Is it good? Eyy we’re happy😂 lol
This is compelling stuff for TTRPGs😅
Join the AM fanclub Discord to continue the conversation: discord.gg/hbxEg6QS
real
Alright.
Colonialism is an advanced form of barabrisms
I'm not sure any form of barbarism is advanced.
Colonialism is merely the settlement of ones own people in a new land. In a sense every populated area of the world is a colonial acquisition, either from nature or from the last group that was there.
It is not a question of right but a question of strength and the will to carry it through against the interests of others. As we have seen the prize for weakness is to be colonised in turn.
Mandela moderate? That was a highly verbose and elaborate discussion to then come to such a shit tier conclusion. Necklacing and advocating white dispossession? A moderate because he courted whites who'd already actively betrayed their people? Am I missing something here?
@@DylanRoth1860 your definitely a racist
Seems like AM was constrained by his sources, unfortunately this is not a free topic within the academia of the English speaking world.
I was attempting to understand why the majority of whites and Afrikaners supported the abolition of Apartheid and de Klerk's transfer of power. The presentation of Mandela as a "moderate" (not my personal verdict on him or the ANC) is in relation to policy makers in the 1980s and 90s and white public opinion. Note how I explained that a united South African identity is absurd and that the Rainbow Nation is a dubious and failing experiment.
@@ApostolicMajesty That's fair enough. I apologize for my misunderstanding (which is not on you) and the importance of exploring the history AS HISTORY as opposed to showcasing it through the lens of a rational or political 'appellant actionis' is certainly valuable.
I can understand the point you're making here because all these systems ultimately failed and were unworkable because they had unrealistic aspirations. I perhaps shouldn't risk pointing out the obvious (as if you didn't already know, so this isn't meant to insult your intelligence) but some failures are more equal than others (as it were), the perfect should never be the enemy of the good, and apartheid's failure is a panacea compared to the failure of post-apartheid South Africa.
Perhaps those points are so obvious they don't really bear mentioning but in the midst of the breadth and depth of the undertaking you successfully engaged in with this presentation, it should never be forgotten that this is all underpinned by race, and one need not look any further. I think it was Ockham who warned against unnecessarily positing entities.
@@ApostolicMajesty they supported it because they lost nothing, they basically still own most of the land the economy is their control and they can now just shift the blame to blackness when things go south
Good old days white World order
Cry harder
Like the Jews, the Afrikaners were traumatized by their collective experience in concentration camps.
Both nations overreacted.
The Boers lost and the Israelis should study their erstwhile ally closely so as not to repeat that mistake.
It’s pronounced “Yan Smuts…”
Get over yourself.
It's less so about them being traumatized and more so about the desire to be rid of the English Yoke that has so stubbornly clung to their flesh; which in no small part is the reason for continued hostility between the two Ethnic groups. (The Boers naturally not being Ethnically, Linguistically, Religiously nor Culturally Anglo to begin with.)
Give me a break LOL.
The average Afrikaner has roughly 7% non-European ancestry from Malay, Dravidian and African vvomen.
I believe it’s higher than that: around 13%.
There is a very-entertaining movie whose title I can’t remember, but I think “potato” is in the title.
A white couple has a child whose genotype is no longer suppressed and their daughter is clearly Coloured.
A geneticist testifies that Afrikaners are approximately 13% African or so and defends her as she is accused of having committed adultery - and worse - miscegenation.
A true story and heart-wrenching.
Google 23andme Afrikaner results. It’s a clear pattern. Around 7%
A recent study has shown that this often touted statistic is ludicrous and false. Nice try, though.
@@thermionic1234567 Nope. This is a false claim. Most Afrikaners are 99% European. These statistics you are using have serious problems and were created by those who have an anti-Afrikaner axe to grind.
@@AustrianPainter14 It is not a clear pattern. Statistically, this claim has not bearing whatsoever.
Kuyper's quoted view on the Tower of Babel's significance for seperateness is so weak! Who on earth said that equality and integration = oneness of language?🤦🏾♂️
You'd be surprised, even before political unity there have been several attempts by leftists to create a single world language, both by creating new ones and by stripping old ones of character and subtlety (in order to create purely 'scientific' meaning).
Multiculturalism and the blending of all cultures together under one bureaucratic state is the modern equivalent of the Tower of Babel. Try again.
The governments BELA Bill would stand to refute this point.
The ANC government has been pursuing a course of forced integration as opposed to one of self-determination ever since they assumed power; which explains their hatred for the otherwise innocent Town of Orania. (Their only sin being that of cultural preservation and a desire for self-determination.)