Always a pleasure, Fil. Even when the truth hurts. I play guitar or bass for a lot of local theatre performances and I remember last year when we were doing the show "Once", there's a scene where the cast comes out to sing the song "Gold" a capella. I hit one open E5 chord on 12-string to help them get started and then they're on their own. And they nailed it every time. I couldn't help but think about all the people paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars to watch millionaires mime to pre-recorded tracks while here we are in a community theatre where tickets are $20 a head to watch teachers and lawyers and stay-at-home parents volunteer to sing their hearts out every night. And they nail it. And even when they don't, they pour everything they have into it. What an honor to sit behind them and try to stay out of their way. That, to me, is genuine live music.
We give up a lot when we give up the pure joy of real, in person, artistry. We completely lose out on the real conversation between artists and their audience. This way I may as well just watch videos or concert films because there's no benefit to being there in person.
The even better thing is that some of these people were somewhat 'activist' in their time railing against capitalism and now they're willing to serve the public reheated swill for $200 tickets.
I've done musical theatre and I concur with you 100%. What we are ....are insurance agents, mechanics, teachers, philosophers, flight attendants etc...and what we do is 100% live and we give our all at every performance! There is integrity in community theatre because the love of the music. Perhaps these so called artists should take a lesson from community theatre and learn.
Great comment. I attend recitals at the local university music school and can relate. These are free public performances and when you see someone doing a recital for their master's or doctorate degree in performance, you're seeing something great. There's no way the millionaires you mention can compete. They even post the recitals on RUclips, often receiving less than 20 views while the fake crap that Fil deconstructs can get millions of views. It's a weird world.
@@Spo-Dee-O-Dee Both Milli Vanilli and Boney M were invented and produced by the same guy, Frank Farian. He wrote all the Boney M and sang it but didn't want to tour so he hired someone to lip synch....nobody cared back then but when he did it with Milli Vanilli and they won awards for it people started to freak out.....lol
for all of the people who were knocking on that last Genesis tour, at least Phil Collins went out and sang for real warts and all. i'd much rather hear that.
Barely being able to sit up in a chair and only being able to do vovals but he DID IT! He had been gradually folding his son Nic in accompanying him then finally taking over completely on the drums which was very bittersweet but very classy of him. Admittedly Phil says he wasn't always the easiest to work with but earned their undying respect and loyalty because of his relentless pursuit of creativity, excellence, honesty, transparency and INTEGRITY.
@@LauraCollins-s6n oh yes, i'd been watching things unfold here on YT. i first noticed that something was up when he sang at some tennis thing with Phillip Bailey. there and any other appearances at that time i noticed that he was leaning against a piano. i have nothing but respect for Phil for going out there and doing an EXTENDED tour with Genesis. some people say it was tough to listen to. i think it was tougher for him to do it.
Yeah. 2006, come on. He wasn't even that old back then. And I'm sure he didn't struggle this much on all of his vocals, but this is one he never sang in the first place, Roy Harper did. So he could have absolutely hired one more singer who could at least hit the range of that vocal. Budget was certainly not a concern.
See, this is why, even if I had no ethical/moral issue with faking singing, I would never do it. I would be terrified that I would make some kind of mistake. Or that there would be some sort of technical glitch. I would be mortified! I would never show my face in public again.
"We heard about the sell-out" is the lyrics, not "you're about to sell out" "We're just knocked out, we heard about the sell-out, you got to get an album out, you owe it to the people".
Possibly. But he makes no friends amongst the rich and powerful by vigorously opposing the Zionist genocide of the Palestinian people, for which he is hated and should be praised.
My boyfriend and I saw David Gilmour at MSG in November. He had the grace to let others sing the parts he couldn’t do anymore rather than fake it. You just saved us a lot of money as we were planning on seeing Roger whenever he came to NY next.
Exactly. It was very obvious David was live when I saw him in LA. I'd rather hear his voice crack some, or him take lower notes rather than sing to a track.
I saw David in London, I've seen him before and his voice has obviously aged but he is an honest performer, it was brilliant, Roger has never been a good singer but touring makes big money and Roger for all his socialist principles loves making money.
I don't remember who it was so I won't mention any names but a while back I saw a video of one of the current female big names in hip hop/R&B. She was being heckled by a fan near the stage. This performer dropped her mike and jumped off the stage to confront her heckler but her vocal kept on playing! Nothing like giving away what you're doing.
@@jjakes5589 All those "Careful With That Axe, Eugene" screams, I'd suspect. But, there's no doubt there was a backing track with his vocals on the 1984 shows for _The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking._ I don't know that he did so on _The Wall_ shows before, but the 77 tour for _Animals_ seems the last one I would say with high certainty that he's really singing at all the shows. For what it's worth, Roger certainly didn't mime the whole show on the 84-85 tour, but the first set was almost all mimed, being a full performance of _The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking._ It is impressive on the album, but Roger was definitely straining at the top (and beyond) his range, so it would have been a terrible burden to do that every night. No excuse for miming and not informing the audiences, mind you. Still, the worst crime (or the best joke?) of that tour was having Eric Clapton as your touring guitarist, and for the Pink Floyd songs, replacing all of Gilmour's solos not with Clapton solos, but very 80s sexy-type sax solos! LOL!
I’ve seen him over 50 times since 1999. Fully aware he mimes some songs. And enjoyed every one of them (except the last two, where ironically he sang the whole show!)
I saw Tori Amos on her most recent tour, and her voice was so shot (sick probably) she had to whisper when talking to the crowd between songs, BUT, she was able to sing her whole set. It was such an amazing show of her absolute talent and vocal technique. I could tell she didnt try to hit every note that was on the recordings, but she didnt get off pitch but one part of one very difficult song. It blew my mind. I still would love to see her full force, but to get that opportunity to see a mega pro pull through the improbable without any bs prerecorded vocals was maybe the most impressive thing ive seen in live music. Artists should just do what they can and let the audience decide if they enjoy it or not.
I agree...but what you did at 25 and what you can do at 75 might be every different. Here,in this case (and noone has mentioned it)..the original vocal on the record wasn'y done by Roger. It wasnt done by David,either. Neither could sing it then...and probably none NOW. It was sung by a colleague..and its a challenge for them..and I see this is how Roger is approaching it. It's one of Floyds bigger songs so I guess people expect it...and Roger is trying to provide it. I think we've all made mstakes...I think we shouldnt be so damning.
FIL, WHAT ABOUT INSTRUMENTS? You’ve addressed Autotune, Melodyne, Miming and other manners of vocal alteration and or outright fakery, what is the state of instrumentation in today’s “Music”?
Fil my brother- Merry Christmas to you and yours my friend. We all got our Christmas present in the form of another great video from you- thanks my man. May the Lord bless you and all who read this.
Interesting to note that the original vocal was sung by Roy Harper. Roy apparently was asked what he would like as payment and he requested season tickets to Lords being an avid cricketer. According to Roy the agreement was not honored and as noted by Roy himself, given the message of the song, that is quite ironic.
Hi Fil, Yes such a sad situation and what is more we are paying higher ticket prices as well. I am so glad my favorite, Sir Paul McCartney at 82 is still at it and although is voice is a bit weak at times, he is performing for the total set and giving his fans what they want! I hope the young performers will pay attention to stars like Paul and do the right thing and give the audience a genuine concert performance ! Happy Christmas --- from Howard
I wouldn't be so sure about that. McCartney gave two concerts this month in a stadium in Manchester, and the reviewer in The Telegraph wrote: "It was an amazing gig, as McCartney concerts always are. He performs pretty much the same shows wherever he goes, with the same arrangements (rigorously faithful to the recordings) and the same between song patter." Knowing what we know from Fil, I'd say that looks very suspicious 😉
As someone who spent the late 60's early 70's listing to this music, watching the octogenarian version of these acts is like watching a 60 year boxer. You deserve what you get.
I think it would behoove them to do a kind of q and a, story telling thing with pictures instead of trying to do something they can't anymore, if it's so important for them to keep in the public eye. Also please don't tell me the last ELO concerts Jeff Lynne was miming.
@@LillyMarz777 Of course Jeff Lyne wasn't miming. Sir Paul McCartney doesn't mime, neither does Neil Young, Bob Dylan, WIllie Nelson, or a whole host of other over-the-hill artists. And OMG! how it shows 😬
This generation never wants to retire! In rock, in politics, in movies, in business and finance...they just won't pry their skeletal fingers off the levers of power. Even when they have all the money they'll ever need.
Thanks Fil! It begs the question, if you can't sing anymore, why should you tour? I'd be mad if I paid my $120 and found out later that the whole thing was a sham.
Because geriatric property tax tours. I can't blame them either. They need money, and the royalties since file sharing 2000s are now just pennies per month.
@@ricktheexplorer. . . ‘ … they need money …’ Really-?.. Five decades-plus of ‘ mega - bucks ‘ and pounds - and no doubt , much else … and ‘ they need money ‘. Must have the wrong accountants et al .
Roger always does a big tour after his divorces. That’s when he needs the money. Not sure I’m much into paying for his divorce settlement if he can’t make the effort to at least sing for it.
Roger has been doing it FOREVER. How do I know this? I realized the Quebec show Roger did in 1987 (which I had on CDR) had the same lead vocal on WTTM as his 1985 show at Radio City in NYC. I started collecting live CDR’s in the mid-1990’s. I soon thought, hang on…that vocal from 1987 on WTTM in Quebec sounded the same as NYC. So I took four versions of WTTM…2 from 1985 and 2 from 1987 and imported them into Cool Edit and lined them up. The vocals were EXACTLY THE SAME! And he isn’t a great singer, so him doing the same way four times over two tours was impossible. I’m a huge fan of his writing, as well as PF in general. This was a huge let down. And EVERYONE on that stage and in that crew knows EXACTLY what is going on. I’m sure they signed NDA’s. I confronted the issue with the front of house guy for THE WALL in Boston in 2010. He just threw up his hands. I was in the 10th row. It was clear Rog wasn’t singing for part of the show. And I knew this going in, but it was still a bummer. But I wanted to see THE WALL. How else does anyone explain Rog doing that tour for what, four nights a week for two years without one cancellation? No person in their 70’s is that lucky.
This is part of why I became a subscriber, as there aren't any punches pulled. The fact that Fil remains objective about doing an analysis, even if it''s someone he likes. This takes any ammo the detractors might attempt to use, as a means of discrediting his work.
OMG! Fil, he isn't even at the microphone when the vocal starts! 😂😅 If it wasn't so sad it would be funny! Great one, Fil! Just pointing out the truth objectively! Well done,Fil!💜💜
People went to Rolling Stones concerts before PA systems and were unable to hear the band, but the audience was satisfied with hearing crowd noise. The same thing happened with the Beatles which is why the Beatles stopped touring.
My problem with musicians miming is that there is no response to the moment in the 'performance'. Thus, there is no spontanaity or actual involvement in a creative process. Ha ha, tis music reduced to fakery - a tawdry trick. The society of the spectacle to the nth degree. Yet again technocracy reducing experience to a mediated commodity (not new) an ersatz, saccharin sweet confection. Well done for this analysis of current musical trends!
I feel your pain Fil. Tough one to deliver. I saw Roger do The Wall in Oz a number of years ago, it was a great show, but I hate to think it was mimed.
that’s why I have so much respect for Axl. Despite criticism about his voice not being what it was 30 years ago, he keeps doing his own thing. Many GnR songs now rely on his lower registers, and after revisiting the live recordings I've made if them since 2010, I could be wrong but I can’t detect any use of backing tracks or autotune. It seems he’d rather face criticism than compromise his honesty
There's a few people I would put money on singing live: Axl (because he's always sounded kinda ragged), Robert Plant (because you can hear the dry aged weakness) and Bruce Dickinson (because no two performances are remotely similar). I'd like to think Ian Gillian too, but there's occasional vocal fry that makes me wonder if there's a little assistance.
I'd also put Phil Collins in that camp. As hard as it was to listen to, that voice on his last Genesis tour was absolutely live. Even years earlier, he had discussed how the band had had to play songs in lower keys because his vocal range was no longer what it had been in his younger days.
@@Jesterpec666 I'm probably not the biggest Maiden fan in the world, but that is absolutely awesome to hear. Some people want to hear music note for note the same as the studio recording. I'm just the opposite. I want to hear improv, mistakes, and whatever else comes along with it. If I want to hear note for note, I'll pull up the studio version of a song for free on RUclips...
Remember when artists would protest if they were asked to lip sync, even on live TV? Like eating a banana or drumming with no sticks, so as to expose the deception instead of participating in it? Integrity is dead, I guess 🤷♂️😕
There was a band (forget who it was) who's lead singer had a ventriloquist's dummy "singing" into the mic during a Top of the Pops performance😂 I also remember The Stranglers taking the piss regularly.
I recall way back when BBC's flagship weekly 'Top of The Pops' tried it with the groups playing Live. It was so bad, it didn't last long before the lip-syncing came back.
I've had booking agents telling us to mime the lot " use technology because I want a product that is consistent and I can sell it anywhere knowing its consistent every night " its from the top down.
I've wanted to message you this for years!! I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!! I play bass in an Elvis Presley Tribute band. We don't have just 1 guy we worked with, I've worked with over 190 Elvii over the past 25+ years. Not one time have we been asked to work with a per-recorded vocal or backup vocals, we always do it live.. I will confess that when we play in Vegas, we use the "2001 Space Oddesey" at the beginning of the 70s set play, but we don't pretend to be playing it. 25 Years of Elvis, LIVE!!! and these millionaires have to lip sync and couldn't even do it live if they had to!! Keep exposing the fakes!!!! Even the 192 Elvii I've worked with sing it live, warts and all!!! I've had massive victories and massive failures.. but it's been ALL ME!!! NEVER GIVE UP FIL!!! The world of entertainment needs to be exposed by you!!!
Saw Cheap Trick live in 2018. The song that got me into them was Dream Police. Love the keys in that song. Live, they didn't have the keys. Reason is clear. They wanted a 100% live performance. Saw Styx right after that. Tommy Shaw is the front man and performs MC duties. That night he had laryngitis. He let the crowd know. We heard it in his voice. He still did MC duties and sang his parts. No lip-syncing. Concert was still a banger and more so probably because you know they were 100% live. What do you think of bands who play mostly live and use a backing track for maybe something like keys, orchestra or choir?
I have a friend who put a harpsichord solo in one of his songs. He used midi and constructed it with notation but he cannot play it. So he ermoved it from the song when he plays it live. I think he would be fine if they had a stunt-piano and he faked it.
@@ChuckJansenII I personally have no problem whatsoever with backing tracks for things like keyboards or orchestral effects. As long as everyone on stage is playing live and the lead vocals are live . That's the main thing for me.
A lot of these older performers have giant egos that won't allow them to retire. It's sad to see the ones who can't handle it anymore do shows with "faked" vocals. This is one reason I don't want to see my favorites from the past on stage now. If you can't sing anymore, it's ok to retire. You gave us decades of great music and live shows. You've earned a rest, go enjoy your millions!
Just as industrialized products are required to state their composition on the label, the music industry should also be required to specify the type of editing that was done on the vocals.
It's always a very sad thing when people age out. I'm aging out. It happens. It's life. The real problem? Is when those who are closest to these great artists, can't find the balls within themselves, to take their 'drivers licenses' away from them- Far too many wait for the "crash & burn" before they ever say a word- and by then, of course, it's already far too late.
Truly feel the most precious yet weakest link between humans is "trust". Once a person get caught lying for their own benefit instead of a good intentions for others, then the "trust link" is broken, even that same person telling the truth afterwards, there will be aways a question mark, it applies to any relationship, including performer and audience relationship. If inauthentic vocal will always exist, I wish the consumers at least have a way to know what they are paying is truly what they are getting. Things like, when we shop produce, we can tell what we are getting from the PLU code, organic produce has a 5 digit code starts with number 9, and conventionally grown produce has a 4 digit code starts with 3 or 4; no one wants to pay organic produce price and take conventionally grown home.
There's a reason Pink Floyd went on without him and succeeded while he floundered on his own. People go to his concerts to hear Floyd songs not Roger Waters' originals.
I can’t agree with the idea that older performers aren’t used to lip syncing or miming a recording. I’m old enough to remember on American television, from American Bandstand, to any of the music/dance or variety shows, it was very common for a performer to lip-synch to a recorded version of the song. Many times what you saw was a band being put together after a single was released, and all they were doing was miming the song. They weren’t even the original musicians in the studio. There’s been a lot of hanky-panky going on in the music industry for a long time. This is definitely not a new phenomenon. It’s very disappointing.
there is / was an infamous case in Australia where Leo Sayer was on Saturday Night Live "singing" but when doing something flamboyant with the microphone, he dropped it. And the track kept playing. why can't a singer sing? Its in the job description.
TV is different. TV studios are not made for music and they can't do a sound check because the studios are rented and that would require extra rental time. To get that sound heard on TV, it has to be a recorded sound or the sound heard at the mixing desk and not what the audience hears.
A production like Saturday Night Live, which is produced on the fly at a rate that leaves little room for project management and incidentals, which has to adhere to station and network rules, I can understand. Leo Sayer has never, nor will ever, need to mime. So it's not a creative choice but a production choice.
Smaller studios when the camera is close to the artist would cause visual noise on the camera so the video would be bad from the sound, if you look at places that had a large audience and cameras behind them in the back of the room they did live shows. This was an issues into the 1980s and later depending on camera equipment.
Fil! Will here from across the pond 🤣 I’m a fan of your videos, your blatantly (yet truly humble) obvious talent, and your passionate love of music!! I have admittedly slept on checking out your band, as I’ve been busy gigging myself while working a day job (and being way behind on getting the demos finished and turned in for the next album). This one hurts, but thank you for pointing out what most have no clue about. Thank you for being one of the genuine ones, hope to cross paths one day!! All the best! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!! Cheers!
He has been lip synching parts (or all) since AT LEAST 1984/85. I saw him on Pros and Cons tour in 1985 from 6th row and I vividly recall being startled how the opening line of the first song (Welcome to the Machine) came on right before he actually mouthed it into the microphone. I could clearly see/hear it. But it confused the hell out of me at the time, and I thought I must have imagined it or had no sensible explanation back then. I now know he was liking piping in vocals for that song (at least). Someone could probably compare bootlegs from that tour and I bet the vocals on Welcome to the Machine are IDENTICAL show to show.....
Having said that, I don't actually care that much. His shows about the visuals, the sounds, the concept, and the musicians. I've never considered his "live" vocals great -- or important. But why not just admit it?
I always wanted to go to MORE concerts to see LIVE music. Now, I am glad that I don't get out much. If they are simply playing a recording, I'd rather stay in the comfort of my home, where I have reasonably priced food and drink and there is NO line for the toilet and listen to the recordings that I already own! 😅
Agreed. I have not seen a live concert in years, and at this point, I doubt if I ever will again. I have no clue how anyone can afford tickets to see what is essentially a preprogrammed meat puppet show. No disrespect to the great Meat puppets.
And no-one behind you talking at the top of their voice through the performance, no pillocks blocking your view with their phones, no-one barging past every 5 minutes to relieve their bladder of all the beer they swilled before the gig. And no, I'm not fun at parties before you ask!
@@seankayll9017 Or idiots singing with every quiet bit, or standing the whole night, ignoring the chairs. I can't stand all night any more. I paid for a seat, I want to use it!
I saw David Gilmour's tour a couple months ago, I was sitting very close and it was 100% live. David occasionally had to alter the melody but it was all live. I was blown away how good he still sounds at 78. Having said that Roger still is and always will be a legend. Love them both, but I agree Roger should just go out and do what we can do.
Only very recently has David's voice started to show signs of age. For the longest time he sounded exactly the same as he always have. A prime example is Comfortably Numb at Live 8. Roger struggles with the verses, which at least in his original album version is not even entirely sung, but then you get to David and he sounds just like he did on the album.
Then you are making a huge mistake. The magic of Pink Floyd was mainly those TWO people, Rogers and Gilmour. I hate when young people today watch a newer 'Pink Floyd' video, where Gilmour is passing himself off as Pink Floyd. It should be a crime; Waters was a musical super-genius. These young people watching these videos may never know what the true magic of the band was, not just Gilmour.
@@BradJames878 I hate when people assume because someone is young they don't know the full history.. I do.. I'm a super fan lol I've seen both multiple times.. I get the magic when they were together and how much Rick and Nick contributed also. These old people making assumptions about a new generation sounds awful familiar like something you should remember lol GILMOUR IS THE GOAT
A little unfair. This hasn't been Roger's general practice over the years, and he was the inspired voice of Floyd. Sure he has some ego problems, but he is a genuine artist too.
@@ericbell6405 you personally may know that Pink Floyd was primarily Gilmour and Waters, but I've read countless postings in the comments sections of these videos where people talk of the greatness of Gilmour only. There is no mention of Waters in the video, and no mention in the comments. I stand by what I said, and Gilmour is wrong to take full credit for Floyd.
@@BradJames878 I wouldn't go so far as to say it was only those two. Rick made huge contributions to the original band and all the classic albums they put out. The chord progressions he came up with are timeless and neither Roger or David could have accomplished that without Rick. I've never once seen Gilmour attempt to take full credit for the work of PF. You assumed because of my (old) profile picture that I was uneducated on the topic because I was young. I would say if you think it was mainly those TWO, you should dive a bit deeper, sir!
Saw McCartney earlier this week at the O2 and, as @howcotube mentioned earlier, he is still singing live. Well, as far as I could tell from 150 metres away both vertically and horizontally and with O2's less than perfect acoustics. Of course, when he and the band play I've Got a Feeling at the end, with Lennon singing from the roof 55 years ago, that is a case when a click track must be used and is entirely justified.
I saw McCartney in Paris. I also think he wasn't miming, he was definitely singing live. At least that's what I could hear and see. The concert was amazing, considering he's 82! The Beatles are my all-time favourite 😍
From The Telegraph review of McCartney's December concert: "It was an amazing gig, as McCartney concerts always are. He performs pretty much the same shows wherever he goes, with the same arrangements (rigorously faithful to the recordings) and the same between song patter." Still think it's live?
Fil, thanks for analyzing this video that gave the message of “the truth hurts” when just about everything could possibly go wrong, especially thanks to the music industry’s standards that miming, backing tracks, and sound engineers are now taking over. You pointed out sufficient examples where Roger Waters missed miming cues while meanwhile, he’s a seasoned musician who is more used to singing live than miming. Just my opinion: if miming is a skill, then Milli Vanilli should have never been punished. Even before you brought this video for analysis, I used to wonder, “What if the sound engineer made a mistake-then what?” At least during a live performance, musicians can work and/or improvise with each other if someone makes a mistakes. This was like everything was haphazardly thrown in together; hence, Roger missed miming cues, live and pre-recorded vocals were mixed up, and there’s the recipe for a potentially disastrous performance. You also pointed out the generational differences regarding the younger generation more likely to sway towards watching performers mime so the veteran performers try to win them over by doing so. I agree with what you said that it’s best to be honest and true to yourself. I can only hope that Roger realized that from that particular performance. I find it sad that this is what live performances have come to. I’ve said before that WWE wrestling events are more live performances than concerts because at least there’s no miming..and yes, sometimes there IS actual music playing (at the premium live events). Anyway, many thanks for what you do and “to thy own self be true,” Fil. Cheers!
The stupid thing is Roger was never known for his amazing singing voice so he'd get given more leeway on his performance than people who are known as spectacular vocalists.
If you look at age and vocal things that happen with age don’t relay on others. Look at John Prine cancer surgary his voice changed radically but it just brought his music to a different level, some say he got better.
I've seen that first video before. Isn't that guy behind him playing bass? Are two bassists needed, or is Roger miming that as well, I wonder. Yeah, this is pretty sad, reminds me of the KISS show in Belgium.
@ Do you know why? I watched the original video and could see it more clearly and it looked like Roger may have been playing during the instrumental part. Did they use a second bass live because he did not like to sing and play bass at the same time?
@cindi1313, probably because Waters is a mediocre bass player to begin with. David Gilmour recorded some of his bass parts for him in the studio. And when the recording won an award Roger took credit for the bass playing he didn't record.
Andy Fairweather-Low is the guy playing bass and yes, he is the one playing the main bass parts and Roggo only plays one string or root notes only or he totally mimes it, not sure. On some songs, the easier ones, he is the only bass player and AFL plays rhythm guitar. I saw him live multiple times and i even realized it at the venue. I confirmed it later after seeing a couple of bootleg DVDs.
I went to see some of my favorite artists like percy sledge. He was already an old man , but we didn't Care. Who's the man that made the music of our lives. He could not hit the high notes like he used to yet he did as best and gave us a good show. I personally would rather have honesty in a performance. At the same time I realize people are driven more and more to have to perform at superhuman levels. I know the artist would rather perform live but money talks And I don't blame them. It's Just a shame that something can't be worked out better.
@dillarddillard-p4e No I'm not saying Thom mime's. Go search for Roger's video slagging him off because he has different views than he does about (Plasterceine). Had to spell it that way
@dillarddillard-p4e Sure. A fan at one of Thoms concerts shouted out to him about not supporting Plasterceine. Waters then did an interview calling him a w⚓ for not supporting Plasterceine. So basically if you don't agree with Waters your a w⚓.
@ Thanks for explaining that to me. Im not from the Uk so don’t know a lot about that kind of thing happening between musicians , but I sure do enjoy a lot of U K musicians
Artists, if you can’t do it, please, don’t do it. If you can’t do what Cindy Lauper, Pat Benetar, Paul McCartney and Billie Eilish do on stage, don’t perform. Please, don’t grift us. This means you, Taylor.
WTH has to do comparing other styles and ages singers? Billie Eilish?? 23 yo! Every artists can sing or tell or recite their lyrics as they want/can. You can't retire Bob Dylan just because he doesn't sing like Adele.
You do know it was Roy Harper singing the original recording? FLOYD were struggling to sing Have A Cigar convincingly when they recorded Wish You were Here. ROY was recording an album in another room so they asked if he'd like to try singing on Have a cigar. ..
Apparently, it was Roger himself who proposed the idea of Roy singing it, but in his mind he was expecting the others to go "No, Rog, you do it" and was astonished and ashamed when everyone went along with it, and the song actually worked out fine.
On the plus side Tori Holub and Jim Midi dropped another upload earlier this week covering the Carpenters'. It's just the two of them and Jim plays all the instruments as well as singing harmonies and of course the visuals.
It's been known for years - back when he did 'In the Flesh Tour in the early 00s an FM intercept bootleg from IRRC was South America which had what was on the backing/click track Most of the band was live - but the bass and vocals were heavily 'supported'
Can't know for certain whether the backing vocals are live either... or more likely, because they're using some tracks, they're at the very least doubling or adding additional back vocals on the tracks.
Really love what you do Fil.. I would never pay to watch this. If you can't sing live don't fleece your fans. I remember the story about Aretha Franklin. She couldn't lip-synch/ mime because she never sang the same song the same way twice. It was always obvious in any music video or film performance, like the Blues Brothers, where she was not singing live.
When I see a band playing handmade music on a stage (not a DJ mixing or highly processed synthesizer stuff), I want to hear them play and sing live. With all the tiny imperfections that make it feel alive.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Always a pleasure, Fil. Even when the truth hurts. I play guitar or bass for a lot of local theatre performances and I remember last year when we were doing the show "Once", there's a scene where the cast comes out to sing the song "Gold" a capella. I hit one open E5 chord on 12-string to help them get started and then they're on their own. And they nailed it every time. I couldn't help but think about all the people paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars to watch millionaires mime to pre-recorded tracks while here we are in a community theatre where tickets are $20 a head to watch teachers and lawyers and stay-at-home parents volunteer to sing their hearts out every night. And they nail it. And even when they don't, they pour everything they have into it. What an honor to sit behind them and try to stay out of their way. That, to me, is genuine live music.
We give up a lot when we give up the pure joy of real, in person, artistry. We completely lose out on the real conversation between artists and their audience. This way I may as well just watch videos or concert films because there's no benefit to being there in person.
Well said DocGlis !
The even better thing is that some of these people were somewhat 'activist' in their time railing against capitalism and now they're willing to serve the public reheated swill for $200 tickets.
I've done musical theatre and I concur with you 100%. What we are ....are insurance agents, mechanics, teachers, philosophers, flight attendants etc...and what we do is 100% live and we give our all at every performance! There is integrity in community theatre because the love of the music. Perhaps these so called artists should take a lesson from community theatre and learn.
Great comment. I attend recitals at the local university music school and can relate. These are free public performances and when you see someone doing a recital for their master's or doctorate degree in performance, you're seeing something great. There's no way the millionaires you mention can compete. They even post the recitals on RUclips, often receiving less than 20 views while the fake crap that Fil deconstructs can get millions of views. It's a weird world.
Who would have thought, Mili Vanili were ground breakers.
Bah, they were just copying Boney M.
@@Spo-Dee-O-Dee Both Milli Vanilli and Boney M were invented and produced by the same guy, Frank Farian. He wrote all the Boney M and sang it but didn't want to tour so he hired someone to lip synch....nobody cared back then but when he did it with Milli Vanilli and they won awards for it people started to freak out.....lol
😂😂😂
Actually bonnie m
Pretended to sing in the 70s
@@kevinklein959 Boney M wasn't big enough in USA for anyone to get butthurt over it.
for all of the people who were knocking on that last Genesis tour, at least Phil Collins went out and sang for real warts and all. i'd much rather hear that.
Yup, I was there too. :)
Barely being able to sit up in a chair and only being able to do vovals but he DID IT! He had been gradually folding his son Nic in accompanying him then finally taking over completely on the drums which was very bittersweet but very classy of him.
Admittedly Phil says he wasn't always the easiest to work with but earned their undying respect and loyalty because of his relentless pursuit of creativity, excellence, honesty, transparency and INTEGRITY.
@@LauraCollins-s6n oh yes, i'd been watching things unfold here on YT. i first noticed that something was up when he sang at some tennis thing with Phillip Bailey. there and any other appearances at that time i noticed that he was leaning against a piano. i have nothing but respect for Phil for going out there and doing an EXTENDED tour with Genesis. some people say it was tough to listen to. i think it was tougher for him to do it.
@@ohmtronseedling Which is exactly why he shouldn't have been doing it.
If any of you haven't seen it, there's a great recent interview with Phil over on the Drumeo channel.
Roger totally deserves a public call out for this.
100%
He just got it.
I believe that’s what this is.
Really? Haven't we known for years that David Gilmour had all the talent?
Yeah. 2006, come on. He wasn't even that old back then. And I'm sure he didn't struggle this much on all of his vocals, but this is one he never sang in the first place, Roy Harper did. So he could have absolutely hired one more singer who could at least hit the range of that vocal. Budget was certainly not a concern.
'The lead vocal comes in and he's not at the microphone. That's always gonna be an issue''. 🤣
😂
Never was a more truthful statement uttered.
So the guy is a ventriloquist also? Wowie how about that!🙃
See, this is why, even if I had no ethical/moral issue with faking singing, I would never do it. I would be terrified that I would make some kind of mistake. Or that there would be some sort of technical glitch. I would be mortified! I would never show my face in public again.
😂😂
Ironically, he's singing "you're about to.sell out" and "you owe it to the people". Yeah, he got that right 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂
The irony. 😂
"We heard about the sell-out" is the lyrics, not "you're about to sell out"
"We're just knocked out, we heard about the sell-out, you got to get an album out, you owe it to the people".
@@rodriguezthiago318 Exactly 💯💪!!!!! That's what I'm saying👏👏👏
I caught that too. I wonder if he felt any guilt saying that line. 😒
roger is riding the gravy train
Possibly. But he makes no friends amongst the rich and powerful by vigorously opposing the Zionist genocide of the Palestinian people, for which he is hated and should be praised.
My boyfriend and I saw David Gilmour at MSG in November. He had the grace to let others sing the parts he couldn’t do anymore rather than fake it. You just saved us a lot of money as we were planning on seeing Roger whenever he came to NY next.
Exactly. It was very obvious David was live when I saw him in LA. I'd rather hear his voice crack some, or him take lower notes rather than sing to a track.
@@MattTexasabsolutely
His voice is still wonderful!
@@lou1880 I agree about David. That concert was incredible.
I saw David in London, I've seen him before and his voice has obviously aged but he is an honest performer, it was brilliant, Roger has never been a good singer but touring makes big money and Roger for all his socialist principles loves making money.
When you pay a fortune for a concert you expect a live performance!!!!!!!!!
Stop going! Simply buy your favorite artists albums and listen to them at home. Why risk getting a DUI, speeding ticket, etc?
@@benjaminhawthorne1969 Sadly, then you'll be listening to a pitch corrected version anyway.
Unless you are going to an EDM concert.
@@TheSimCaptain Then learn to sing and play and make your own music. Or, be like Corey Feldman, DON'T learn to sing or play and make your own! 😅
@@benjaminhawthorne1969 I don't know where that came from. I was basically agreeing with you.🤔
I don't remember who it was so I won't mention any names but a while back I saw a video of one of the current female big names in hip hop/R&B. She was being heckled by a fan near the stage. This performer dropped her mike and jumped off the stage to confront her heckler but her vocal kept on playing! Nothing like giving away what you're doing.
What do you reckon the heckler was saying......? ;-)
It was cardi B
Lip synching to hip hop? Why bother.
Great job Fil.❤❤ Don't feel bad. You didn't do anything wrong. You just analyzed the performance truthfully. Nothing to be ashamed of. 😊
I think he's more disappointed than ashamed.
The second video was hilarious… Roger sounded like a drunk at a karaoke bar.
Yeah, it was cringe worthy.
To be fair we always sounds like that now a days
Thank you for doing this video. I get so tired of Roger Waters apologists acting like he doesn't cheat his fans by miming.
Oh the angst of all these Tavistock artists......
He is singing with it to beef up his vocal. Many so called artists don’t even have a live mic
I agree 💯👍👍👍
@jonspengler5891 Overrated...
Lmao when you go to movies do you feel cheated because the cgi isn't real or do you think it's about the total experience?
David Gilmour is smiling somewhere. 😂
I'm smiling thinking David and Polly are smiling being proven correct with their 2023 tweets accusing Waters of lip synching.
100%
. . . and Roy Harper is laughing.
I hope he sees this video lol.
Hilarious man, the state of big money music is sad 😅
Roger has been singing to a backing track since the 1980s. He’s been miming longer than most of these newer artists have been alive
Unconscionable!
Is it because he mostly wrecked his musical voice by then?
@@jjakes5589 All those "Careful With That Axe, Eugene" screams, I'd suspect. But, there's no doubt there was a backing track with his vocals on the 1984 shows for _The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking._ I don't know that he did so on _The Wall_ shows before, but the 77 tour for _Animals_ seems the last one I would say with high certainty that he's really singing at all the shows.
For what it's worth, Roger certainly didn't mime the whole show on the 84-85 tour, but the first set was almost all mimed, being a full performance of _The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking._ It is impressive on the album, but Roger was definitely straining at the top (and beyond) his range, so it would have been a terrible burden to do that every night. No excuse for miming and not informing the audiences, mind you.
Still, the worst crime (or the best joke?) of that tour was having Eric Clapton as your touring guitarist, and for the Pink Floyd songs, replacing all of Gilmour's solos not with Clapton solos, but very 80s sexy-type sax solos! LOL!
I’ve seen him over 50 times since 1999. Fully aware he mimes some songs. And enjoyed every one of them (except the last two, where ironically he sang the whole show!)
@@Th-xy1yw what are the last two you refer?
I saw Tori Amos on her most recent tour, and her voice was so shot (sick probably) she had to whisper when talking to the crowd between songs, BUT, she was able to sing her whole set. It was such an amazing show of her absolute talent and vocal technique. I could tell she didnt try to hit every note that was on the recordings, but she didnt get off pitch but one part of one very difficult song. It blew my mind. I still would love to see her full force, but to get that opportunity to see a mega pro pull through the improbable without any bs prerecorded vocals was maybe the most impressive thing ive seen in live music. Artists should just do what they can and let the audience decide if they enjoy it or not.
I agree...but what you did at 25 and what you can do at 75 might be every different. Here,in this case (and noone has mentioned it)..the original vocal on the record wasn'y done by Roger. It wasnt done by David,either. Neither could sing it then...and probably none NOW. It was sung by a colleague..and its a challenge for them..and I see this is how Roger is approaching it. It's one of Floyds bigger songs so I guess people expect it...and Roger is trying to provide it. I think we've all made mstakes...I think we shouldnt be so damning.
the Have a Cigar part where he just gasps into the mic is hilarious 😂 great job Fil
Nothing is real anymore. Thanks Phil, I appreciate the truth.
Fil
@@gottlicherhammer Thanks
David Gilmour is genuine. WYSIWYG.
FIL, WHAT ABOUT INSTRUMENTS? You’ve addressed Autotune, Melodyne, Miming and other manners of vocal alteration and or outright fakery, what is the state of instrumentation in today’s “Music”?
Excellent question. 👍🏿
Yeah really, I’d Iike to know too.
Asking the question is answering him 😉
@@rope3051 Say what now?
I remember back in the day when a band’s drummer, guitarists, saxophone player, etc. could become famous in their own right.
Fil my brother- Merry Christmas to you and yours my friend. We all got our Christmas present in the form of another great video from you- thanks my man. May the Lord bless you and all who read this.
Great analysis, Impartial as always
Thank you!
Interesting to note that the original vocal was sung by Roy Harper. Roy apparently was asked what he would like as payment and he requested season tickets to Lords being an avid cricketer. According to Roy the agreement was not honored and as noted by Roy himself, given the message of the song, that is quite ironic.
Hi Fil, Yes such a sad situation and what is more we are paying higher ticket prices as well. I am so glad my favorite, Sir Paul McCartney at 82 is still at it and although is voice is a bit weak at times, he is performing for the total set and giving his fans what they want! I hope the young performers will pay attention to stars like Paul and do the right thing and give the audience a genuine concert performance ! Happy Christmas --- from Howard
I believe it's called Merry Christmas
@@atatterson6992Not in the UK!
If only if it was Paul McCartney and not Sir Paul McCartney!🤪
@@TracyN67 Where?
@@atatterson6992 Well, definitely England, I assume the rest of the UK as well.
Roger likes to take the high moral ground on different subjects, but he's ripping off his fans in this instance, pure and simple.
Very high likelihood he just snubbed at the sound people, who had enough, and the 'accidental' wrong mix wasn't an accident.
Indeed
Only that his blatant antisemitism is not exactly a high ground.
@@shma1israel Palestinians are Semites.
@@shma1israel 🤦
Older generation bands have older generation fans, and we don’t like being conned!
And yet fans will show up no matter how ridiculous expensive the tickets will be.
Should have seen David Gilmour. Grandpa Gilmour was all live all the time.
@@martyndunn6337 Not this fan. F em.......
That's one thing you get with McCartney. A real live performance from a living legend.
And he’s not afraid to show his age. Which he does. Frank Sinatra showed his age at the end for sure. But, if you love him…….
I just saw a clip where Ringo joined him. I was so thrilled to hear Paul (and Ringo) actually singing. I saw him in concert once, amazing LIVE show.
You're right, and he has the good sense and grace to let someone else take over on the high notes that he can no longer reach. It's appreciated.
@@kcvinwehoLA His voice can't handle Helter Skelter anymore, but it's 100% ok. It's him, it's dignity.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. McCartney gave two concerts this month in a stadium in Manchester, and the reviewer in The Telegraph wrote:
"It was an amazing gig, as McCartney concerts always are. He performs pretty much the same shows wherever he goes, with the same arrangements (rigorously faithful to the recordings) and the same between song patter."
Knowing what we know from Fil, I'd say that looks very suspicious 😉
As someone who spent the late 60's early 70's listing to this music, watching the octogenarian version of these acts is like watching a 60 year boxer. You deserve what you get.
I think it would behoove them to do a kind of q and a, story telling thing with pictures instead of trying to do something they can't anymore, if it's so important for them to keep in the public eye. Also please don't tell me the last ELO concerts Jeff Lynne was miming.
@@LillyMarz777 Of course Jeff Lyne wasn't miming. Sir Paul McCartney doesn't mime, neither does Neil Young, Bob Dylan, WIllie Nelson, or a whole host of other over-the-hill artists. And OMG! how it shows 😬
This generation never wants to retire! In rock, in politics, in movies, in business and finance...they just won't pry their skeletal fingers off the levers of power. Even when they have all the money they'll ever need.
@@singingwaylol how long did BB King , Little Richard etc go ?
David Gilmour lost the hair but kept the voice. Roger Waters kept the hair but the lost the voice.
Thanks Fil! It begs the question, if you can't sing anymore, why should you tour? I'd be mad if I paid my $120 and found out later that the whole thing was a sham.
Because geriatric property tax tours. I can't blame them either. They need money, and the royalties since file sharing 2000s are now just pennies per month.
@@ricktheexplorer. . . ‘ … they need money …’ Really-?.. Five decades-plus of ‘ mega - bucks ‘ and pounds - and no doubt , much else … and ‘ they need money ‘. Must have the wrong accountants et al .
As sad as it is, some bands just need to stop touring.If you can’t sing anymore, it’s over!
Roger always does a big tour after his divorces. That’s when he needs the money. Not sure I’m much into paying for his divorce settlement if he can’t make the effort to at least sing for it.
Roger has been doing it FOREVER. How do I know this? I realized the Quebec show Roger did in 1987 (which I had on CDR) had the same lead vocal on WTTM as his 1985 show at Radio City in NYC. I started collecting live CDR’s in the mid-1990’s. I soon thought, hang on…that vocal from 1987 on WTTM in Quebec sounded the same as NYC. So I took four versions of WTTM…2 from 1985 and 2 from 1987 and imported them into Cool Edit and lined them up. The vocals were EXACTLY THE SAME! And he isn’t a great singer, so him doing the same way four times over two tours was impossible. I’m a huge fan of his writing, as well as PF in general. This was a huge let down.
And EVERYONE on that stage and in that crew knows EXACTLY what is going on. I’m sure they signed NDA’s. I confronted the issue with the front of house guy for THE WALL in Boston in 2010. He just threw up his hands. I was in the 10th row. It was clear Rog wasn’t singing for part of the show. And I knew this going in, but it was still a bummer. But I wanted to see THE WALL. How else does anyone explain Rog doing that tour for what, four nights a week for two years without one cancellation? No person in their 70’s is that lucky.
All band members are part of the demon club.
This is part of why I became a subscriber, as there aren't any punches pulled. The fact that Fil remains objective about doing an analysis, even if it''s someone he likes. This takes any ammo the detractors might attempt to use, as a means of discrediting his work.
Unfortunately there are people who refuse to believe facts.
@insecthugger_treelover "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
OMG! Fil, he isn't even at the microphone when the vocal starts! 😂😅 If it wasn't so sad it would be funny! Great one, Fil! Just pointing out the truth objectively! Well done,Fil!💜💜
It is my hope that you and others exposing this issue will make the artists go back to actually singing.
People went to Rolling Stones concerts before PA systems and were unable to hear the band, but the audience was satisfied with hearing crowd noise. The same thing happened with the Beatles which is why the Beatles stopped touring.
That would be fantastic!
Surely some artists will start a roll-back to really ‘live’. Please.
@orlock20, the people in the back couldn't hear but the band still didn't lip synch.
@@Chez8922-kf6cy The band hardly played close to together, save the rare night they had good stage monitors.
Thank you Fil for sharing/posting this incredible video presentation.
My problem with musicians miming is that there is no response to the moment in the 'performance'. Thus, there is no spontanaity or actual involvement in a creative process. Ha ha, tis music reduced to fakery - a tawdry trick. The society of the spectacle to the nth degree. Yet again technocracy reducing experience to a mediated commodity (not new) an ersatz, saccharin sweet confection. Well done for this analysis of current musical trends!
I feel your pain Fil. Tough one to deliver. I saw Roger do The Wall in Oz a number of years ago, it was a great show, but I hate to think it was mimed.
that’s why I have so much respect for Axl. Despite criticism about his voice not being what it was 30 years ago, he keeps doing his own thing. Many GnR songs now rely on his lower registers, and after revisiting the live recordings I've made if them since 2010, I could be wrong but I can’t detect any use of backing tracks or autotune. It seems he’d rather face criticism than compromise his honesty
There's a few people I would put money on singing live: Axl (because he's always sounded kinda ragged), Robert Plant (because you can hear the dry aged weakness) and Bruce Dickinson (because no two performances are remotely similar). I'd like to think Ian Gillian too, but there's occasional vocal fry that makes me wonder if there's a little assistance.
@koncorde definitely right about Bruce. Iron Maiden never sound the same two nights in a row but they still great.
@@Jesterpec666 Yeah, no criticism of Bruce intended - he's just far too often ad-libbing to risk autotune or similar.
I'd also put Phil Collins in that camp. As hard as it was to listen to, that voice on his last Genesis tour was absolutely live. Even years earlier, he had discussed how the band had had to play songs in lower keys because his vocal range was no longer what it had been in his younger days.
@@Jesterpec666 I'm probably not the biggest Maiden fan in the world, but that is absolutely awesome to hear.
Some people want to hear music note for note the same as the studio recording. I'm just the opposite. I want to hear improv, mistakes, and whatever else comes along with it.
If I want to hear note for note, I'll pull up the studio version of a song for free on RUclips...
Merry Christmas Fil. Thanks for all you analysis and the Fil jams. !!
Remember when artists would protest if they were asked to lip sync, even on live TV? Like eating a banana or drumming with no sticks, so as to expose the deception instead of participating in it? Integrity is dead, I guess 🤷♂️😕
There was a band (forget who it was) who's lead singer had a ventriloquist's dummy "singing" into the mic during a Top of the Pops performance😂 I also remember The Stranglers taking the piss regularly.
I recall way back when BBC's flagship weekly 'Top of The Pops' tried it with the groups playing Live. It was so bad, it didn't last long before the lip-syncing came back.
It was mud that had the ventriloquist dummy 😂@@raithrover1976
@@raithrover1976Mud. Lonely this Christmas if I recall correctly.
Merry Christmas Fil! Thanks for all the content!
Thank you for all the hard work you do and the great way you present it✌️
I feel your awkwardness Fil & you are, as always, very clear in your targeting the "game" perpetrated on us - Cheers mate!
I've had booking agents telling us to mime the lot " use technology because I want a product that is consistent and I can sell it anywhere knowing its consistent every night " its from the top down.
Ugh! How awful.
David Gilmour doesn't lip synch.
Really? You think Roger listens to anyone but Roger?
I've wanted to message you this for years!! I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!! I play bass in an Elvis Presley Tribute band. We don't have just 1 guy we worked with, I've worked with over 190 Elvii over the past 25+ years. Not one time have we been asked to work with a per-recorded vocal or backup vocals, we always do it live.. I will confess that when we play in Vegas, we use the "2001 Space Oddesey" at the beginning of the 70s set play, but we don't pretend to be playing it. 25 Years of Elvis, LIVE!!! and these millionaires have to lip sync and couldn't even do it live if they had to!! Keep exposing the fakes!!!! Even the 192 Elvii I've worked with sing it live, warts and all!!! I've had massive victories and massive failures.. but it's been ALL ME!!! NEVER GIVE UP FIL!!! The world of entertainment needs to be exposed by you!!!
Great update as always Fil
Thanks Fil for another great analysis!
This isn't a new thing with Waters, he mimed In The Flesh throughout The Wall tour he did from 2010-2013.
I'm a huge Roger Water fan but I have never laughed so much for a long time at that sound mix cock up. Priceless. Thank you Fil.
Saw Cheap Trick live in 2018. The song that got me into them was Dream Police. Love the keys in that song. Live, they didn't have the keys. Reason is clear. They wanted a 100% live performance.
Saw Styx right after that. Tommy Shaw is the front man and performs MC duties. That night he had laryngitis. He let the crowd know. We heard it in his voice. He still did MC duties and sang his parts. No lip-syncing. Concert was still a banger and more so probably because you know they were 100% live.
What do you think of bands who play mostly live and use a backing track for maybe something like keys, orchestra or choir?
I have a friend who put a harpsichord solo in one of his songs. He used midi and constructed it with notation but he cannot play it. So he ermoved it from the song when he plays it live. I think he would be fine if they had a stunt-piano and he faked it.
@@ChuckJansenII I personally have no problem whatsoever with backing tracks for things like keyboards or orchestral effects. As long as everyone on stage is playing live and the lead vocals are live . That's the main thing for me.
@@chriswilkinson7636 Thanks for the reply. You have a good take.
A lot of these older performers have giant egos that won't allow them to retire. It's sad to see the ones who can't handle it anymore do shows with "faked" vocals. This is one reason I don't want to see my favorites from the past on stage now. If you can't sing anymore, it's ok to retire. You gave us decades of great music and live shows. You've earned a rest, go enjoy your millions!
Or they're up to their necks in debt and literally can't afford to retire. You might be surprised how many rich and famous people are nearly broke.
100%
$$$
*greed
Megalomaniac for sure 😂he needs to be relevent he thinks he's a saviour of the world 😂😂😂from his ivory tower
Just as industrialized products are required to state their composition on the label, the music industry should also be required to specify the type of editing that was done on the vocals.
God forgive the producers "pitch correct" the Beatles catalog. Thx, Fil, such a great service you are doing!
Merry Christmas, Fil. Always enjoy your videos.
It's always a very sad thing when people age out. I'm aging out. It happens. It's life. The real problem? Is when those who are closest to these great artists, can't find the balls within themselves, to take their 'drivers licenses' away from them- Far too many wait for the "crash & burn" before they ever say a word- and by then, of course, it's already far too late.
I was so amazed that he could do a grueling 2 year world tour and not miss one concert…You said it,”it is what it is”
Fil: "Yeah, I'm gonna stop it now because... I think I'm gonna throw up!"
Truly feel the most precious yet weakest link between humans is "trust". Once a person get caught lying for their own benefit instead of a good intentions for others, then the "trust link" is broken, even that same person telling the truth afterwards, there will be aways a question mark, it applies to any relationship, including performer and audience relationship.
If inauthentic vocal will always exist, I wish the consumers at least have a way to know what they are paying is truly what they are getting.
Things like, when we shop produce, we can tell what we are getting from the PLU code, organic produce has a 5 digit code starts with number 9, and conventionally grown produce has a 4 digit code starts with 3 or 4; no one wants to pay organic produce price and take conventionally grown home.
Thank you Fil. I know that was a hard analysis for you to do. Merry Christmas to you and your family.
2006, 18 years of punking his fans for an ever increasing price.
There's a reason Pink Floyd went on without him and succeeded while he floundered on his own. People go to his concerts to hear Floyd songs not Roger Waters' originals.
Roger’s shows are worth the price of admission whether he’s singing live or not.
@@FaithCrisisSurvivor
They certainly look good for a laugh.
best comedy shows out there.
Far longer than that. I first noticed his miming on a DVD from 2000. Other commenters have seen him mime on concerts in the 1980s.
I can’t agree with the idea that older performers aren’t used to lip syncing or miming a recording. I’m old enough to remember on American television, from American Bandstand, to any of the music/dance or variety shows, it was very common for a performer to lip-synch to a recorded version of the song. Many times what you saw was a band being put together after a single was released, and all they were doing was miming the song. They weren’t even the original musicians in the studio. There’s been a lot of hanky-panky going on in the music industry for a long time. This is definitely not a new phenomenon. It’s very disappointing.
there is / was an infamous case in Australia where Leo Sayer was on Saturday Night Live "singing" but when doing something flamboyant with the microphone, he dropped it. And the track kept playing.
why can't a singer sing? Its in the job description.
TV is different. TV studios are not made for music and they can't do a sound check because the studios are rented and that would require extra rental time. To get that sound heard on TV, it has to be a recorded sound or the sound heard at the mixing desk and not what the audience hears.
A production like Saturday Night Live, which is produced on the fly at a rate that leaves little room for project management and incidentals, which has to adhere to station and network rules, I can understand. Leo Sayer has never, nor will ever, need to mime. So it's not a creative choice but a production choice.
Smaller studios when the camera is close to the artist would cause visual noise on the camera so the video would be bad from the sound, if you look at places that had a large audience and cameras behind them in the back of the room they did live shows. This was an issues into the 1980s and later depending on camera equipment.
its was on countdown and it was iggy pop who was high on drugs
Fil! Will here from across the pond 🤣 I’m a fan of your videos, your blatantly (yet truly humble) obvious talent, and your passionate love of music!! I have admittedly slept on checking out your band, as I’ve been busy gigging myself while working a day job (and being way behind on getting the demos finished and turned in for the next album). This one hurts, but thank you for pointing out what most have no clue about.
Thank you for being one of the genuine ones, hope to cross paths one day!!
All the best! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!! Cheers!
He has been lip synching parts (or all) since AT LEAST 1984/85. I saw him on Pros and Cons tour in 1985 from 6th row and I vividly recall being startled how the opening line of the first song (Welcome to the Machine) came on right before he actually mouthed it into the microphone. I could clearly see/hear it. But it confused the hell out of me at the time, and I thought I must have imagined it or had no sensible explanation back then. I now know he was liking piping in vocals for that song (at least). Someone could probably compare bootlegs from that tour and I bet the vocals on Welcome to the Machine are IDENTICAL show to show.....
Having said that, I don't actually care that much. His shows about the visuals, the sounds, the concept, and the musicians. I've never considered his "live" vocals great -- or important. But why not just admit it?
Roger, Roger, Roger. For shame. This is not a performance, it is a rally.
I always wanted to go to MORE concerts to see LIVE music. Now, I am glad that I don't get out much. If they are simply playing a recording, I'd rather stay in the comfort of my home, where I have reasonably priced food and drink and there is NO line for the toilet and listen to the recordings that I already own! 😅
I agree with everything you said except the reasonably priced food part...we haven't had reasonably priced food for 4 years here in America.
Agreed. I have not seen a live concert in years, and at this point, I doubt if I ever will again. I have no clue how anyone can afford tickets to see what is essentially a preprogrammed meat puppet show. No disrespect to the great Meat puppets.
And no-one behind you talking at the top of their voice through the performance, no pillocks blocking your view with their phones, no-one barging past every 5 minutes to relieve their bladder of all the beer they swilled before the gig. And no, I'm not fun at parties before you ask!
@@seankayll9017 Or idiots singing with every quiet bit, or standing the whole night, ignoring the chairs. I can't stand all night any more. I paid for a seat, I want to use it!
@benjaminhawthorne1969 I saw the headline on a video about CDs making a comeback! I'm going to go watch it now.
I saw David Gilmour's tour a couple months ago, I was sitting very close and it was 100% live. David occasionally had to alter the melody but it was all live. I was blown away how good he still sounds at 78. Having said that Roger still is and always will be a legend. Love them both, but I agree Roger should just go out and do what we can do.
Gilmour recently said in an interview that his voice is better than ever.
Gilmour was excellent on his recent tour. Saw him four times. 💯% live
Only very recently has David's voice started to show signs of age. For the longest time he sounded exactly the same as he always have. A prime example is Comfortably Numb at Live 8. Roger struggles with the verses, which at least in his original album version is not even entirely sung, but then you get to David and he sounds just like he did on the album.
I would bet that David has never had to fake a guitar solo.
does he wear an ear piece?
Hi Phil. Merry Christmas. Keep up your great work !!
well done and you did it with respect, great job.
Another reason I like Gilmour so much more... He doesn't always sound perfect, eats notes, makes mistakes, but it's REAL
Then you are making a huge mistake. The magic of Pink Floyd was mainly those TWO people, Rogers and Gilmour. I hate when young people today watch a newer 'Pink Floyd' video, where Gilmour is passing himself off as Pink Floyd. It should be a crime; Waters was a musical super-genius. These young people watching these videos may never know what the true magic of the band was, not just Gilmour.
@@BradJames878 I hate when people assume because someone is young they don't know the full history.. I do.. I'm a super fan lol I've seen both multiple times.. I get the magic when they were together and how much Rick and Nick contributed also. These old people making assumptions about a new generation sounds awful familiar like something you should remember lol GILMOUR IS THE GOAT
A little unfair. This hasn't been Roger's general practice over the years, and he was the inspired voice of Floyd. Sure he has some ego problems, but he is a genuine artist too.
@@ericbell6405 you personally may know that Pink Floyd was primarily Gilmour and Waters, but I've read countless postings in the comments sections of these videos where people talk of the greatness of Gilmour only. There is no mention of Waters in the video, and no mention in the comments. I stand by what I said, and Gilmour is wrong to take full credit for Floyd.
@@BradJames878 I wouldn't go so far as to say it was only those two. Rick made huge contributions to the original band and all the classic albums they put out. The chord progressions he came up with are timeless and neither Roger or David could have accomplished that without Rick. I've never once seen Gilmour attempt to take full credit for the work of PF. You assumed because of my (old) profile picture that I was uneducated on the topic because I was young. I would say if you think it was mainly those TWO, you should dive a bit deeper, sir!
Watch Freddie Starr doing his comedy routine singing the song Vincent. He is pretending to mime to a backing track that speeds up and slows down.
That was hilarious!
Saw McCartney earlier this week at the O2 and, as @howcotube mentioned earlier, he is still singing live. Well, as far as I could tell from 150 metres away both vertically and horizontally and with O2's less than perfect acoustics. Of course, when he and the band play I've Got a Feeling at the end, with Lennon singing from the roof 55 years ago, that is a case when a click track must be used and is entirely justified.
I saw McCartney in Paris. I also think he wasn't miming, he was definitely singing live. At least that's what I could hear and see. The concert was amazing, considering he's 82! The Beatles are my all-time favourite 😍
. . . ‘ … singing well ‘ do you think so-?.. Not since the previous century - in my opinion .
@”..,.singing live. Well….” Slightly different and was aimed at Fil’s analysis. The quality of the voice is, as we all know, not what it was.
From The Telegraph review of McCartney's December concert:
"It was an amazing gig, as McCartney concerts always are. He performs pretty much the same shows wherever he goes, with the same arrangements (rigorously faithful to the recordings) and the same between song patter."
Still think it's live?
@@bobfennell3717 he doesn't need to sing like in his younger days!
Fil, thanks for analyzing this video that gave the message of “the truth hurts” when just about everything could possibly go wrong, especially thanks to the music industry’s standards that miming, backing tracks, and sound engineers are now taking over. You pointed out sufficient examples where Roger Waters missed miming cues while meanwhile, he’s a seasoned musician who is more used to singing live than miming. Just my opinion: if miming is a skill, then Milli Vanilli should have never been punished. Even before you brought this video for analysis, I used to wonder, “What if the sound engineer made a mistake-then what?” At least during a live performance, musicians can work and/or improvise with each other if someone makes a mistakes. This was like everything was haphazardly thrown in together; hence, Roger missed miming cues, live and pre-recorded vocals were mixed up, and there’s the recipe for a potentially disastrous performance. You also pointed out the generational differences regarding the younger generation more likely to sway towards watching performers mime so the veteran performers try to win them over by doing so. I agree with what you said that it’s best to be honest and true to yourself. I can only hope that Roger realized that from that particular performance. I find it sad that this is what live performances have come to. I’ve said before that WWE wrestling events are more live performances than concerts because at least there’s no miming..and yes, sometimes there IS actual music playing (at the premium live events). Anyway, many thanks for what you do and “to thy own self be true,” Fil. Cheers!
This is like, you ordered an original painting and got a print, merry Christmas 🎉😂🎉
You order a live peformance and you get a live performance. Live vocals not included. Read the disclaimer.
Thank you Fil, appreciate your video’s!
Oh my, I'm never have been so glad I never got rid of my vinyl collection.....
The stupid thing is Roger was never known for his amazing singing voice so he'd get given more leeway on his performance than people who are known as spectacular vocalists.
If you look at age and vocal things that happen with age don’t relay on others. Look at John Prine cancer surgary his voice changed radically but it just brought his music to a different level, some say he got better.
David Gilmour would never do this to us.
Gilmour has a thing called "integrity." Poor Roger apparently doesn't know what that means.
Never. I wonder if Roger hadn't quit if they would have just gotten sick of him and kicked him out eventually.
cant wait for Oasis' analysis next year
Sorry, but I’m not sure it’ll be worse than it already was!🙃
Don't think Liam is disciplined enough to be able to mime
I'm sure Liam will be slurring and missing lyrics, completely live.
Liam can’t sing anyway he’s absolute CRAP!!!!!
@@Alejoninla Not a chance that Oasis will be miming.
This channel has made me never want to pay for another live show.
I've seen that first video before. Isn't that guy behind him playing bass? Are two bassists needed, or is Roger miming that as well, I wonder. Yeah, this is pretty sad, reminds me of the KISS show in Belgium.
Even in the heyday of Pink Floyd, they used a second bass live
@ Do you know why? I watched the original video and could see it more clearly and it looked like Roger may have been playing during the instrumental part. Did they use a second bass live because he did not like to sing and play bass at the same time?
@cindi1313, probably because Waters is a mediocre bass player to begin with. David Gilmour recorded some of his bass parts for him in the studio. And when the recording won an award Roger took credit for the bass playing he didn't record.
@ Interesting, I didn’t know that. Makes sense then. It’s kind of a wonder they lasted as long together as they did.
Andy Fairweather-Low is the guy playing bass and yes, he is the one playing the main bass parts and Roggo only plays one string or root notes only or he totally mimes it, not sure. On some songs, the easier ones, he is the only bass player and AFL plays rhythm guitar. I saw him live multiple times and i even realized it at the venue. I confirmed it later after seeing a couple of bootleg DVDs.
I love this, so glad I found this channel. Please analyze Teena Marie as a vocalist on song Out on a Limb or whatever you see fit. Thanks!
I went to see some of my favorite artists like percy sledge. He was already an old man , but we didn't Care. Who's the man that made the music of our lives. He could not hit the high notes like he used to yet he did as best and gave us a good show. I personally would rather have honesty in a performance. At the same time I realize people are driven more and more to have to perform at superhuman levels. I know the artist would rather perform live but money talks And I don't blame them. It's Just a shame that something can't be worked out better.
As always fil, keep up the great work. Keep the stars' feet to the fire. How appalling. But most important, happy holidays to you and yours.
Thom Yorke needs to sit in the front row at his next concert and ask him his views on miming while charging a small fortune for tickets.
Wait, you saying Thom Yorke mimes too? Has Fil done a vid on him?
@dillarddillard-p4e No I'm not saying Thom mime's. Go search for Roger's video slagging him off because he has different views than he does about (Plasterceine). Had to spell it that way
@@thefella131Couldn’t find vid. Could you just give me an idea what you are talking about ?
@dillarddillard-p4e Sure. A fan at one of Thoms concerts shouted out to him about not supporting Plasterceine.
Waters then did an interview calling him a w⚓ for not supporting Plasterceine.
So basically if you don't agree with Waters your a w⚓.
@ Thanks for explaining that to me. Im not from the Uk so don’t know a lot about that kind of thing happening between musicians , but I sure do enjoy a lot of U K musicians
Keep exposing the lies , fraud and hypocrisy Fil ! Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Fil .
Yes Roger has mimed on and off for over 20 years.
More on than off for a good while now.
Artists, if you can’t do it, please, don’t do it. If you can’t do what Cindy Lauper, Pat Benetar, Paul McCartney and Billie Eilish do on stage, don’t perform. Please, don’t grift us. This means you, Taylor.
It's show biz, and millions are happy with it.
WTH has to do comparing other styles and ages singers? Billie Eilish?? 23 yo! Every artists can sing or tell or recite their lyrics as they want/can. You can't retire Bob Dylan just because he doesn't sing like Adele.
You do know it was Roy Harper singing the original recording? FLOYD were struggling to sing Have A Cigar convincingly when they recorded Wish You were Here. ROY was recording an album in another room so they asked if he'd like to try singing on Have a cigar. ..
And Roger Waters has been complaining about how he should have sung that song, and how bad the other guy sang it.
Apparently, it was Roger himself who proposed the idea of Roy singing it, but in his mind he was expecting the others to go "No, Rog, you do it" and was astonished and ashamed when everyone went along with it, and the song actually worked out fine.
On the plus side Tori Holub and Jim Midi dropped another upload earlier this week covering the Carpenters'. It's just the two of them and Jim plays all the instruments as well as singing harmonies and of course the visuals.
At some point in the future, the way misic is going, , we will need to talk about returning the AMA.and Grammy awards back to Milli Vanilli.
Unbelievable - well done Fil.
It's been known for years - back when he did 'In the Flesh Tour in the early 00s an FM intercept bootleg from IRRC was South America which had what was on the backing/click track
Most of the band was live - but the bass and vocals were heavily 'supported'
If lip-synching is a skill, then lying is an art form.
Such a funny way of describing failing miming :)
Can't know for certain whether the backing vocals are live either... or more likely, because they're using some tracks, they're at the very least doubling or adding additional back vocals on the tracks.
Really love what you do Fil.. I would never pay to watch this. If you can't sing live don't fleece your fans. I remember the story about Aretha Franklin. She couldn't lip-synch/ mime because she never sang the same song the same way twice. It was always obvious in any music video or film performance, like the Blues Brothers, where she was not singing live.
When I see a band playing handmade music on a stage (not a DJ mixing or highly processed synthesizer stuff), I want to hear them play and sing live. With all the tiny imperfections that make it feel alive.
I like YOUR singing voice😀👍
based on that one snippet of Fil singing, sounds like Roger should hire HIM to sing Have A Cigar. ;)
Was wondering when this inevitable video would come...