(TF26)The First Battle of Chin'Toka Starship Classes
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- In today's episode of Trek Facts, we're taking a look at a bit of the history and the Starship Classes that participated in the First Battle of Chin'Toka.... I hope you enjoy!
Want to help out the channel? Become a Patron of ours and receive some Great Perks!
/ tastudios
Follow us on Twitter at
/ tas_youtube
Follow us on Instagram at
/ tas_yt
Want to see more of my Artwork, then join my Facebook Page at
/ davidklawitterdesigns
Title Sequence Created By Siren
All Star Trek and Star Trek related material is used under the fair use clause in copyright law, no trademark infringement intended
#TruthORMyth #StarTrek #SciFi
I just wanted to take a moment to say that it is quite impressive that all these years later there are still video essays being created on this show. It shows the quality of the program and writing, and the gravity that the love put into it had on the minds and hearts of fans, new and old. I thank you for your efforts brother.
I know right? it's a testament to Star treks lasting power!
I think we can comfortably assume that all Galaxy Class ships were updated per the example seen in Generations. I wish this refit had been done by the time the Best of both Worlds ended or shortly thereafter so that the bridge set etc; would have received much more screen time.
I can’t wait for the video on the Akira class ship. The more I see it, the more I like it, both for its aesthetics and it’s firepower. It shows that Star Fleet is willing to take the gloves off when needed.
LOL I already have one... It's Truth Or Myth Episode 90 :)
Ahhh!!! I can’t believe I missed it!! Okay, now that I’m back after watching and commenting on it I have a few things to say: A) A great video on a great ship class, thank you. B) I can’t wait for the videos on the Centaur, Saber and Steamrunner classes.
It hurts my sould that there will never be a HD Version of Star Trek Deep Space 9.....
Not in this decade. I think the hd project stated something about using a.i. support to cut render times but that's farther ahead in time.
Most special effects shots for Season 3 on would have to be completely recreated as unlike TNG their resolution and aspect ratio was too low thanks to the switch to CGI. Hence why it would take too much money to simply HD Them... As those CGI scenes are as good as they basically get.
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios i once read an article that many of the assets still exist, but anyhow it would be a nightmare to import the stuff into modern software and enhance it.
probably really easier to re-create it from scratch like they did with TOS. but hey, CGI is getting cheaper and easier to work with all the time, its astonishing what a single person with good knowledge can create today, so maybe some time in the future it would be practical to re-do the cgi on a reasonable budget
That's criminal. DS9 is the best of all Star Trek spin-off series, imo.
Klingon Bird of Prey seems to be made by the Cult of the Square-Cube Law. The ship must be built "hollow" and filled in once the shell is built. If not, that would mean the big BOP would have absolutely massive rooms and consoles, which would be hilarious to see.
LOL Im sure it's simply scaled up to properly include whatever need be :P
Even holding Chintoka was a huge task when you look at episodes Siege on AR558.
Most definitely, and certainly a topic for a future video :)
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios
I was "hinting" that. I found the episode to be very interesting, with Star Trek being primarily space combat but we got to see long term ground combat here in wartime other then the quickie close quarters of boarding action on ships or stations.
LOl I thought you might be :P And yes it certainly needs to receive special treatment as it showed and told a story not often seen in reality...
I'm sure that what we're saw of the "siege" was starfleet not wanting tmo deploy the appropriate amount of ground forces for a subspace communications array they 'might' tap into. Until the engineers cracked it's coding it was the feddies not able top waste deployments until they had a reason. All for naught as well after chintoka was retaken.
or the siege of AK-74
SEE WHAT I DID THERE?
Mr. Garak, I'm already involved in a very messy and bloody situation. Garak helped bring the Romulans into the war, albeit through some very unorthodox tactics he managed to achieve the goal. In the Chintoka system, Garak again is the one that realizes that the orbital platforms are controlled via the power system on the small moon, and again the goal is achieved. Garak, plain and simple Garak is one of the greatest unsung heroes of much of freeing Cardassia from Dominion occupation.
I realize my statement has nothing to do with the starship classes but it is essential that those starships make it through the Chintoka system and Garak (IMO) is one of the main reasons for this victory.
QA'pla ⚔
Well personally Im a huge Garek fan, so ill allow the comment :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios
I see you are not that naive young individual from when we first met 😎🖖
I always compare the second battle of DS9 to the battle of Hoth. Chintoca is the TET Ofensive.
Excellent Video! I love how your videos have a feel of it being a Documentary from IN Universe retelling the stories of times past. Excellent as always.
Thank you so much! I thought that would be the best approach to these sort of videos :)
When that episode first aired, I was blown away (pun intended) by the sheer number of ships and amount of firepower on both sides. So much so, it almost became noise. As impressive as this and other space battles are I still hold the three most moving parts of the Dominion War, to me, are the episode Nog loses his leg, the one when he comes back to the station, and Jake's firsthand war experience article that really brought home how hard war is on those who fight it. I still feel that the writers of these episodes had to draw from real experiences of their past or picked the brain of an experienced vet.
DS9 was really great at telling a story and making the audience see the truth behind it :)
The episode where Nog lost his leg was Siege of AR558. I heard there were discussions with Vietnam war vets to help write the script and get that feel of what it's like to be on the ground in the front lines cut off from help over long periods of time
Absolutely. I remember watching Next Gen as a kid and if the Enterprise D fired off a torpedo or a phaser shot it was a big deal, then in DS9 you have these massive fleet engagements with firepower everywhere.
As much as I love the other series you produce your videos on starships are my favourite. How amazing are these DS9 battles going to be when we finally get to see them in HD. As always a great watch.
I know right, seeing the effects redone for the DS9 Documentary, What We Left Behind, was amazing!
What I don't understand is how in some battles, many of these starships practically one-shot their target while in other battles, it takes a large amount of hits (no reason for holding back in any cases like using lower yield shots).
Yeah Ive never understood either, of course the real reason is to provide drama... but in universe it so inconsistent!
Dávid Karnok phaser strength is = to the plot. But it could be that the shields were strengthened on that side to better prepare for the attack. 🤷♂️
Seems to be a matter of expediency. Sometimes I'm able to imagine they took fire before we see them one shotted.
We never know for sure how damaged or how weakened the other ships shields so I always just chalk it up to lack of prior damage vs no prior damage
What I find interesting is the old TNG redshirts in the background of the planning meeting
The Galaxy class could easily refit into a carrier like the Akira but better. Its so large that it could hold 2 Defiants and a few fighters or a bunch of fighters instead of 2 Defiants.
Indeed it could, but I love it more as a command and troop transport ship :)
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios It definitely makes a good troop transport. 15,000 boots on the ground from one ship. They should make multiple variants. Fighter/Escort carrier, Troop carrier, long range Command & Control missile boat. It's to much of glass cannon to be on the frontlines.
I am sure that if the Galaxy class ships were refitted with a new phaser canyon, like the one that Q showed Picard, when the future looked differently...etc, etc....the big G class ships would be ripping holes in many enemy ships, perhaps the shielding would be a bit better too. Unfortunately, as what we saw what happened to the original Defiant class Defiant, it's ablivitive armour couldn't withstand a Breen ship's weapon...
..
So back to the drawing board 😒😒
I have I thing to say about this battle if Captain Sisko was the mission commander should he not have been on a larger ship that was serving a a fleet command vessel. Like a Galaxy class with the battle bridge serving a ship command and the main bridge repurposed as a fleet strategic command centre. Where he could more effectively direct fleet operations.
Fleet flagships are not always the biggest ship. In world war 2 it was fairly common to use a heavy cruiser. Also the defients weapons shields and hull are all rated as higher then a galaxy
As the battle commander, Sisko could choose what ship he commanded in the battle... Besides for all you know the Defiant IS the strongest ship participating. Many sources suggest it may actually be 3 times stronger then the Galaxy Class... Remember, size doesnt always = power.
I wasn’t referring to it’s power but was thinking more in terms of the facilities to direct fleet operations and giving Sisko the chance to focus on the battle as a whole not just keeping his own vessel on mission. Mostly thinking in terms used in The Lensman book saga where fleet operations required the construction of a specialised command vessel to direct large scale flee5 operations.
Ahhh but remember what Janeway said in Equinox about the vessel with tactical superiority is in charge... So that might play a part, though I really think it was just Sisko's choice!
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very well executed in every detail way shape and form and very informatively explained in every way possibly provided for you on this subject matter, And a very nice job on showing all the various ships available and involved with in the battle of Chin Toka indeed!,👌.
Bashir: he never raised his voice... the fury of a timelord...why this Doctor fought with gods and demons....why he choose to hide....he was being kind. He encased Q in chains forged from a dark star. He tricked the female founder into the event horizon where she will fall... screaming for eternity
I would love to watch a hour long space battle like the Chin'Toka Battle on You Tube.
Oh me too!
Thank you for making this. This was quite informative.
You're very welcome :)
So one question has always intrigued me, it is the following. A ship makes a Kamikaze attack on another ship and very easily destroys it, we’ve all seen this many times. Now in our make believe/fantasyland world why don’t the shields prevent this or at least minimize the damage. And please don’t come up with something like it’s the warp core explosion or something else to do with the warp drive. It’s Sci FI, but that is one of several Star Trek/Star Wars things that shouts 1930’s Buck Rogers. The vid itself was very good.👍
Ensign: "Sir, we arrived at the Chin´Toka System"
Captain: "Good. Go to impuls and signal the fleet to the raise the shields"
Ensign: "Shields won´t be installed until Tuesday"
ps.: That was indeed a great battle. So sad they didn´t have enough budget for a final huge last battle.
Even though they technically were never on screen during the battle it's a sure thing that multiple Sovereign classes were involved too. Along with Operation Return and some Negh'vars too😅
The first Chin'toka battle is 1 of my favourite on DS9
Great video brother.
Thank you so much (Again) :)
Great job. I am joining your channel
Well thank you for the support :)
Captain Picard once mentions Romulan B-type warbirds. Are those the Romulan ships you show here?
another captivating video
Thank you so much and it could be, we simply dont know as the same model was referred to differently so many times... So my guess is the shell was always the same but internally and power related the Warbirds differed slightly from each other :)
Excellent retrospective
And again, Thank you so much :)
Great Clip Knut would be good to add when you mention it took part in the battle to add if that type of ship was destroyed of damaged
Something that always bothered me.. While shown in DS9 and covered here by
TriAngulum Audio Studios, Orbital Defense Weapons seems to be a Cost Effective means of protecting a Planet.. Why didn't the UFP employ similar defense around their planets? It only makes sense... Why have a Large Fleet Protect a planet when you can have a small fleet in orbit or near by and Automated Weapons Platforms in orbit that will shoot down any "Enemy" Ships....
We've heard them mention plantery defenses responding to threats st various times
Im sure they did, but one fact that they always do seem to say is that such and such planet had out dated defensive systems, showing that Starfleet is still a bit arrogant in regards to it's own strength...
Idk... The Breen were able to Flatten San Francisco... The Borg had no issues... It's like Earth is open to the public... Come on in and invade...
Exactly, Earths defenses are out of date :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Not out of date, nonexistent... Even that large star base had no weapons.. But give it a week and they can install them..
Awesome review! Is it weird that for me the Akira class design was closer to the Miranda than to the NX? Also, the Excelsior didn't have 2 front torpedo lanuchers and 1 rear (3 total)?
Thank you so much! There is nothing in canon however to suggest it had 3 torp launchers, BUT thats why I said 2 as standard in stead of just 2... That leaves the option open for a third :)
"New and improved Miranda-class starships featuring 20% less Explodium per serving! Get yours today!"
'Did you say 20% less? Oops' - utopia planetia crew 141.
Can I get a few Oberths with that?
@@kamenwaticlients Beat me to it!
The Oberth Refits will be the newest of the new when they come off the assemblly lines.. will make the Soverign look like crap with the amount of Explodium built into them.. just thinking about the new Oberth Refits brinks a tear to m eyes...
Great video.
Thank you! :)
How different do you think the dominion war would be if admiral Layton coup was successful
Im not sure tbh, If Layton had of succeeded, it's entirely possible that it may have spelled the end of the Federation and a loss to the Dominion. A lot of times, crazy people who seek power, tend to make things worse then better!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I think your right that the federation might've lost the war. After watching the episodes again Layton didn't really seem to crazy, it seemed to me that he saw how dangerous the Dominion really was and the pacifist nature of the other admirals and the leaders of the Federation would lead to disaster.
I use crazy loosely of course... But look at historical figures like Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin for example... They didnt seem crazy either at first, but after grabbing power like Layton was attempting, their craziness shone through!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I think in the long run your absolutely right his power grab would've destroyed the Federation but in the short term he might've had Starfleet in a better position to face the Dominion
You're probably correct about that... I mean WW2 Germany was certainly in a good position under it's leader, even though eventually it lead to it's downfall.... At least in THIS reality ;)
It really sucks that the allies didn't just destroy all of the orbital weapon platforms, instead of many ships lost. The main command center was destroyed, but not before many ships destroyed.
am betting, since the families left the Galaxy class, thy would be upgraded with more power, poss with a smaller warp engine in the Saucer.
When did we see an ambassador in the battle?
Deep space 9 at its best. Not just for the great space battle but the whole episode. Gripping stuff
I completely agree :)
3:54 how come Starfleet has two guys in the old uniforms when everyone else has the First Contact style? And not even the previous uniform, they’re in the ones before that, the ones from TNG S3-7!
Well at this point, apparently Starfleet Headquarters was still using the old style uniforms, See DS9: Homefront and Paradise Lost. So im assuming these guys came directly from Starfleet to witness the meeting...
Budget cuts?
TriAngulum Audio Studios TriAngulum Audio Studios I could understand that earlier in the show, especially during/just after TNG when they had the “formal starship/planet uniform” and the “workman space station uniform” in parallel, with Sisko switching when on Earth, but this is a good year or so after the apparent fleet-wide switch to the FC greys with no crossover we could see. Yet these two have missed TWO memos on the new uniforms! I guess they’re the real life Tapestry Picards that never went anywhere, not even the clothing replicator...
Im not saying it makes sense, merely that it was :)
Starfleet has way too many ship classes. Imagine working at a shipyard during the Dominion war and having to repair dozens of different types of ships at once. Starfleet should be broken down into 70% defense, 20% transport, and 10% exploration, with only a handful of classes for each division. Standardization is key to winning the logistics war.
although small (compared to other classes of stafleet ships, the defiant was still close to 2 football fields long) always wondered on the real life comparison on it's size) :)
If you look at the scale within shots its size varies wildly. It is whatever scale looks good in the shot. The Defiant is probably the most inconsistently scaled ship in the franchise.
Very interesting and most informative. you just need to get the measurerments of certain starships right. Along with the crew compliment...
They are right! And thank you!
Will you be doing the second battle of Chin'toka
Indeed I will :)
No Oberth, Yeager and Centaur classes. Maybe that's later on.
Not seen here, at least canon wise... And trust me I looked, I did a frame by frame analysis of all the Starship shots to make sure I was accurate :)
nice video tri :)
Thanks Germie :)
So there were no X-wings?
LOL Not in this one no :P
Its too bad that the special effect department didn't have the budget to show the tmp era ships firing their weapons correctly, they had dual emitters, thus it should have been dual phaser beams not a single emitter, or the miranda class not firing the pulse phaser on the roll bar, as seen in st2
I always wondered why Starfleet employ marines, instead relying upon the Klingons or Romulans to supply the troops that would be essential to taking and holding a planet.
In many episodes Starfleet did indeed rely on Klingon forces as Martok responds that they will begin to beam down forces etc...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios iirc there is a mention of heavy casualties using the Klingon troops to retake planets.
What has never made sense in the star trek universe is the insanely small crew sizes. That Romulan battle cruiser only has a little over 1000 people on it? a ship of that size would have at least 15000 or possibly way more. Current air craft carriers have 5000-6000 people on them and they're much much smaller than a starship. People are really stuffed onto those things and it isnt exactly comfortable but a ship thats over 20 times the size having only 1000 people is just nonsense.
So you're implying that excelsior class has one forward tube and one aft tube, when in fact she has 2 and 2
No, im saying in standard configuration it has 2 forward only... There is nothing in canon to show an aft launcher... Thus why I kept the possibility open, yet keeping the information totally canon!
Is there a part two to this
Not yet, But ones coming :)
TriAngulum Audio Studios oh ok nice waiting for that
The battles in the DS9 series (ground & space) always bothered me and seemed just terribly written and minimally thought out. I do understand that the series was limited by the computer technology of the time but the anytime a battle took place it was as if both sides just decided to to use 18th century military tactics...i.e line up and shoot at each other. None of it was consistent, none of it considered from a tactical standpoint and it always bothered me.
On the ground NO ONE in Starfleet used armor, or any kind of real technical wizardry that they're known for... Transporter mines, phaser grenades, ANY kind of coordination between units, tactics, etc. It's just like Starfleet rounded up a bunch of enlisted members, gave them a single Type II phaser and said 'good luck'. No one was any good at anything on the Alpha Quandrant side except dying.
Multiple ships taken out in kamakaze runs yet NO ONE started using tractor beams to prevent attacks like that, no ship to ship coordination, no tactics other than slow-boat straight into withering fire... It was idiocy at best and suicidal at worst. With the capabilities (obviously and demonstrably evident) of Starfleet why, oh why, did they suddenly devolve into the sorts of people in infomercials who can't open a pack of crackers without a visit to the ER?
witchdoctor 13 I agree completely. Look at the Battle of Cardassia. The “Galaxy wings” were actually clusters of Galaxy starships. One would think that they would be the weapons platforms/carriers in the middle of a formation, with escorts to protect it.
Wait 52 torpedo launchers? Did I hear that right? Their is your war ship right there lol. How come the bigger ships get less?
Can you be more specific as to which class you're referring to?
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios The Akira class
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios And I mean 15 torpedo launchers.
15, not 52 :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Still that's a lot compared others even the defiant class and I think even the sovereign class had less.
so the commander of the ENTIRE MASSIVE ARMADA is in a ship completely unsuitable for command functions?
What makes you think it's unsuitable? I mean he commands it and it does the job after all...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudiosStudios well for starters it doesn't have the kind of features a dedicated command ship should have like i dunno NOT BEING A GUNBOAT THAT IS LITERALLY DESIGNED TO CHARGE AT THE ENEMY GUNS BLAZING. it also has few crew amenities, no dedicated command functionality. not even a proper medical suit. I'm just saying a Galaxy or Akira is much better for this sort of thing.
I tend agree with the idea that a command ship SHOULD have been a Galaxy or Sovereign class, but I guess as Master of Ceremony, Sisko gets to decide what ship he want to command everything from :) It's Star Trek, crazy things like this happen all the time :)
@@TriAngulumAudioStudiosStudios can't wait for you to explain why no sovereigns are ever once seen in the dominion war LOL. or where the big E was.
Well that's easy, we only see a VERY small section of the Battle and by this point there are only a few Sovereign Classes in service! And in Real life it was because Paramount didnt want the Sov CGI model to be used in episodes... Preferring to keep it sepetrated for the movies!
Let's not forget if it wasn't for Garak the Romulans wouldn't of enter the war. Whatever his actions right or wrong? He got the Federation and the Klingons with there new Romulan allies to go on the offensive. And drive back the Cardassian's into their own space
Garak is a fraking legend. Truly the greatest hero of the alpha quadrant.
What about the Steamrunner class? Oops sorry. I assumed you would do all Starfleet first.
LOL I DID do all Starfleet first! And it's there! Enemy forces are AFTER the Steamrunner class! :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Sorry I meant that there are Starfleet ships before and after the Klingon ships. Thanks for the video.
Ahhhh Ok :) No problem :) I actually did it ailed, then enemy forces :) So I hope that wasnt TOOOO confusing :)
The truth is: the Federation Alliance LOST the II Battle of DS9 militarily. If it wasn’t for the literal deus ex machina intervention, the war would’ve been lost that day.
The WORST tactical move ever was allowing the loss of DS9..... starfleet and the Klingons should have been building up fleets around bajor when the dominion began their military build up.
Automated phaser turrets etc around DS9
I believe most of the galaxy class interiors where unfinished and any hulls rushed into tactical service.
I know the reason why we didn’t in real life because they didn’t want to use it because of voyager.
But I would have liked to have seen intrepids in the battles
Yeah that never made a lot of sense to me at all, except of course for dramatic story telling :)
Re: galaxy class during the war. The original galaxy specs in the tech manual have 30% of the space reserved for future upgrades. Be fairly safe to say the ones in the later part of the dominion war were packing more heat that the enterprise at launch.
@@RUclipscanbitemyhairybanger She didnt say that... She said, "It's new, but not classified!"