The reason why Goku actually perfected Super Saiyan by staying in the form in his every day life is because in the Time Chamber he noticed Gohan would’ve went Super Saiyan 2 if he didn’t use all his stamina trying to power up. At that moment he decided Gohan had enough but he needed Gohan to get used to being in Super Saiyan so he can use his stamina to get to the next level. Vegeta called it a genius tactic, but Goku only intended for it to be the bridge between SSj1 and SSj2.
I think he realized instead of manually training Gohans upper limit intensely, it was better increasing his base level comfortably. Which honestly is how 99% of humans get better at anything so it makes sense for Gohan. Great writing
@@JohnQueSacc I sometimes shit on dragon ball's incredible mess of plot holes but i've never considered this perspective, it's not master level writing but it is a great detail for sure
That's why goku and vegeta train in base more in the first place. It's because the super saiyen transformation is a power multiplayer. Increasing base power is paramount. If they trained transformed they tmay gain a thousand in power. But gain a thousand in power training in base form multiplies as fifty thousand extra when transforming in to super
I like the idea of this but it was never actually implied within the story. Goku figures out Grade 4 directly after trying out Grade 3, seeing its weaknesses, and deciding that the normal super saiyan is the best option. Gohan going SSJ2 in the time chamber was an anime only scene to begin with.
I think something you overlooked when looking at Gokus perception of Gohan as a fighter is Gohans own behaviour in the previous arcs because as far as Goku has seen Gohan has always been willing jump into a fight even if Goku didn't want him to. This happens in the saiyan saga where Gohan is sent home but comes back by his choice fearlessly fighting with Vegeta. He then goes to Namek and fights against people far stronger than him throughout. Goku only saw a Gohan who may have doubted his own abilities when it came to was always down to fight as by time Goku appeared in the Saiyan saga Gohan had gotten over his fears.
Exactly, outside of a few relaxing moments with his son, Goku ever only saw Gohan fighting. Doesn't help the fact that when Goku came back from Yardrat, Gohan was there in battle armor and he chose to train with his dad for the 3 years.
That is why I hate this part of the story, gohan has always been willing to step up. Raditz, sure to save his dad, but when we get to namek he fulling outs himself trying to save someone he doesn’t know, against frieza. Yet when it’s time to save the world he’s like “Nah ima sit this one out.” I understand he doesn’t like to be a martial artist, I just don’t understand why he didn’t want to fight Cell to save all of his loved ones.
@@SamJulesGillians because he was still a kid and had issues , you know how little kids are , scared not in controll of there emotions amd like all of us not perfect ,picollo explained it perfectly to goku ,but in my words i say : gohan isn't a a matured martial artist yet , so 1: not a true lust for battle fighter and 2: not a experience fighter , the rest of him getting a rage boost can also be seen as simbolic in reel life , stop being a cowrd and finally do what needs to be done but some need to snap first lol .
@@SamJulesGilliansBecause he was a kid and his dad was actually there. In Namek he's fighting waiting for his dad to come save them. And as for the raditz thing he's throwing a tantrum. Plus Z is low key the story of Gohan and if u look at goku as a support char then the narrative starts making more sense.
From a tactical standpoint, Goku's only error was not forewarning Gohan. Had he told him the plan, especially the bits about the senzu and expecting Cell to pull a Frieza the moment he realized he was dead, it would have been flawless.
Gohan realized it at the right time...during the fight. They had already spent years trying to get gohan to unleash his rage on command and only now during super can he do it.
Gohan would have overthinked it if Goku told him, that's why Goku DIDN'T tell him his plan lol. Goku knows his son and knows how much he overthinks and how much confidence he lacks. He was trying to put him in a stressful situation on purpose, because that's where Gohan would awaken his power when he has no other option, and no plan. If Gohan knew of Goku's plan and how much faith he had in him, knowing Gohan, he would have panicked and ended up angry at himself for not living up to his father's expectations, then he would have failed, causing cell to kill them all. He needed to be put in that stressful situation WITHOUT a plan to ascend. That's entirely what the quote means from what Goku said "Power comes from a need, not a desire" Goku didn't have a plan when he went ssj. It just happened, but that's thanks to his stress and anger being pushed to that point. He was trying to do the same thing with Gohan, and it worked, so he made the right call by not telling him his plan in the end
Yeah, the Senzu Bean was to make Cell overconfident and not ever feel desperate at any time until it was too late… unfortunately Gohan let his power go to his head as well, thus creating the desperate situation.
Even in Abridged, the TFS commentaries even have them say he's more like Homer Simpson than Peter Griffin (or more accurately, they compare his relationship with Gohan to Homer's relationship with Lisa. Which is to say "he cares, he just doesn't understand) how best to show it at times").
Forget the senzu, Goku's only mistake was not chasing (enough) after Gohan's power in the chamber. If you think about it then Gohan had to be stronger than him the moment he turned SS as in previous fights he was already relative in strength to Piccolo who was relative to SS Goku. This angle is overlooked IMO, especially since Goku corrected his mistake and never ever stopped training culminating in SS3 in the Buu arc.
I would assume that Goku believed Gohan had the same lust for fighting as he did which made the situation unnecessarily harder on top of not pursuing SSJ2.
Goku realized in the time he had left he couldn't reach that level and that continuing to use the time chamber was only hurting his body. Look at Vegeta and trunks. They went into the chamber twice and you better believe he trained just as hard if not harder than Goku yet Goku was actually stronger than Vegeta only going in the chamber once and leaving early. It's not a matter of Goku didn't train hard enough but that he wasn't capable at the time to reach that level of power. Who knows how long it took Goku to unlock ss2 and then 3. Probably years and years.
The senzu bean was the right thing to do. Cell wouldn’t have toyed with Gohan, if he was low on energy. Goku knew that Cell would’ve allowed Gohan to reach ssj2 through curiosity. People forget that his psychology is similar to that of a saiyan’s due to him having saiyan dna. Look at the way that Cell was able to manipulate Vegeta.
they explained why they left early, at that point they weren't getting any stronger and needed to rest. to quote master roshi, "Work hard, study well, and eat and sleep plenty! That is the Turtle Hermit way!" and he has also said sometimes you need to slow down, and to take life in. at this point they, or more or less, gohan was on the brink of ssj 2 and needed a catalyst to push beyond that limit. cell was the catalyst for gohan to break his limits. and as davon said, the senzu bean that goku gave to cell probably saved everyone. he wouldn't have toyed around, and if gohan was strong enough to beat the weakend form, he would have nuked the planet and gohan wouldn't have the strength to defeat him.
That’s not really a mistake. At that time, the only two people who unlocked SSJ through strictly training were Vegeta and Gohan. From experience, Goku probably figured that in order for Gohan to reach the next level, he was going to need to be put into a “no going back situation,” example being like when Frieza killed Krillin in front of Goku, and, in Gohan’s case, Cell using his Juniors to beat up all of Gohan’s friends.
I always took it as goku seeing that gohan was on the cusp of unlocking 2 but he was too weak to challenge him enough to fully unlock it in training and he judged that cell was too weak after his battle to do the same either, so it'd be losing attrition seeking out the power in the end, so he healed cell so that his power would push gohan into 2. When he noticed that power ceiling in gohan while in the time room, he probably settled for dedicated his training into acclimating to the base super form, so that Gohan could use as much time as he can in battle searching out that extra bit he can't get in training. It seemed that it all lined up properly and goku was so focused on unlocking that moment, he didn't put gohans feelings about fighting into consideration and realised he was pushing him to a limit he didn't care about unlocking, and that caused him to panic at his decision.
I say this all the time. People use the senzu bean thing to call Goku a bad father and say piccolo was better. Piccolo kidnapped and threw a 4 year old into a dinosaur infested forest. And then beat tf out of him for months. Annddd much worse mistakes were made during this arc. Vegeta fought trunks to help Cell. Krillin destroyed that remote. Trunks didn’t immediately just kill 18 or 17 when he left the chamber.
the reason why goku gave cell a senzu bean was so gohan would know that he beat cell at his best instead that he won cause coku worn down cell's power in that fight
A little off-topic but honestly, Gokou and Cell’s little relationship is the best in the entirety of DragonBall, even greater than Gokou and Piccolo Jr when they first met.
The only mistake I see, is not letting Gohan in on the strategy, as well as involving Picolo in to help train Gohan. Gohan should have been able to achieve SS2 before leaving the Time Chamber. It also would have given Gohan time to get used to fighting at SS2 and get over his ego after achieving the power.
But that's not a mistake. Goku knew gohan had the power and he just couldn't figure how to bring it out and I doubt piccolo wouldn't have been able to either. So goku just did what vegeta would have done Send him out to battle
no wrong , pushing him to hard would over stress his body like vegeta and trunks did , you need time to rest but they weren't resting they were training outside to maintain the ssj1 , this should be done first than you could expand on other forms but there wasn't enough time , cause the best they could do was ssj grade 3 wich was an impracticle form for fighting long battles , ssj 2 did not exist yet so no .
I still never understood why the hyperbolic time chamber became the "chamber of spirit and time" when that was originally the name of the "pendulum room" because the hyperbolic did have slower time than earth, but hte pendulum room sent a warriors spirit through time as you saw with Krillin, yamcha, chioutzu and tien in the saiyan saga when they went into the pendulum room spirit of time and their spirits got sent back in time to the saiyan war (which is why when they were killed they woke up back on earth unharmed) for their training, which is why that was originally the "chamber of spirit and time"
It was just for some seconds but the first ssj2 was born on that training chamber. The fear on goku face when he sow gohan almost going to ssj2 was prisceless only when gohan passed out goku returned to normal. Like ufff i dont have to fight a kid with way more power then myself.)
Goku also wanted Gohan to reach this heightened state of power because Goku knew he wouldn't be around forever. Someone else would have to take up the mantle.
That could be an interesting "What if?" What if Goku brought Piccolo with him and Gohan during his time in the ROSAT? The Time Chamber was limited to two people because of the resources. However, Piccolo doesn't need to eat. Prediction/Theory: Gohan "knows the plan" and achieves SS2 while inside. Gohan's arrogance slowly grows during the week of peace. Gohan asks to fight Cell last because he knows he's the strongest. He suggests allowing others to "have a chance" before him and Goku. Fake reason: To demoralize him. Real reason: To torture him. Goku still goes first. Gohan stops Goku from giving Cell a Sensu. (Intercepts Sensu bean) "Dad, I don't think Cell needs any extra help" Long story short --> Cell blows up earlier Goku sacrifices himself --> Angerly, Gohan tortures Super Perfect Cell causing him to vomit both Androids. Cell's self-destruct is weaker.
I’ve always said it was smart for Goku to have gohan fight because cell really didn’t have much on gohan like the others, which gave him an advantage. I think Goku could’ve won really but he wanted his son to make that push
One thing I disagree with: Goku didnt give Cell the Senzu Bean out of any compulsion towards fair play because Goku always takes life or death fights seriously and doesnt show mercy beyond choosing not to kill despite what Super would have you believe (just ask Nappa or Recoome), Goku gave Cell the Senzu Bean so that when Gohan kicked the green off of him Gohan would know he did it 100% on his own, Goku didnt weaken Cell first. It was intended to boost Gohans confidence in himself after he won.
I always wondered if goku and gohan went back in... I know the whole body grueling aspect but gohan was at a point of technique lack rather than power and the fact its a time chamber alone with a partner for another year it would have been perfected as well... imagine a fully unlocked ss2 gohan casually walking out of the chamber. It changes everything. In some ways potentially worse.
The only reason it’s Because of plot, there is no excusing that decision, the whole stress on the body is a stupid excuse because senzu beans and healing magic are a thing and it’s never brought up again, and like you stated the extra time to polish technique would have been useful.
I know it's not canon that bardock was a scientist but it's kind of cool that goku's son also wants to be a scientist and gohans daughter seems to want to fight like goku.
Wait I never really thought about this but, how strong is ssj2 teen gohan?! I understand gohan got weaker during the timeskip going into the buu arc. That being said, during his fight with dabura vegeta stated that cell games gohan would of easily delt with dabura! Where would ssj2 teen gohan fair rank in the buu arc?
Stronger than everyone except himself was in the Cell Saga, and while significantly lower than timeskip Goku and Vegeta, still the 3rd best on the good side. He'd still mop Piccolo, Shin, Krillin, the boys, etc, without much effort. It just wasn't enough for Dabura and Buu. And the way I understood it, once he "figured it out" thanks to Goku's advice in-between rounds against Dabura, a fresh SSJ2 Gohan prob beats Dabura. But he had been beaten down by Dabura in the first fight, whereas if the fight started right at round 2, I think he wins, THEN gets smacked around by Buu.
Gohan was already stronger than goku in his super 1 form anyway. As he said to gohan in the anime, you only thought I was holding back because you were comparing my strength to your own.
Goku has a few mistakes in this. 1 I saw in the comments, Goku didn't tell Gohan the plan. He didn't tell him the potential he saw. 2 he got out the chamber early saying he didn't see a point in training more, when he could have just rested in the chamber and keep training to assure Gohan had more time to control his potential, instead of hoping he would pull out a miracle . It would have been more time of rest in the chamber than the few days before the cell games. 3 He didn't account for his son's natural character. Gohan has never killed before and he went into the fight expecting Gohan to be the one to kill cell. 4 choosing to fight fair against someone who was a threat to the planet. Vegeta knew what was up when he launched that attack that gave Gohan the edge. If they all jumped cell, Goku wouldn't have died. Imagine if all of them just blasted the crap out of cell at full power before the senzu bean.. last but not least, is not striving for the power level he saw in Gohan himself. For someone who always wants to break the limits he finds and become the strongest fighter, it's out of character for him to just take a back seat to even Gohan. He wants to fight everyone but not cell? I call bull lol
So let me ask you this (please reply I’d like to know your take on this someone with some actual dragon ball IQ)… so since Goku decided to send gohan into the fight even though he could finish it himself , do you think that goku was really stronger than gohan in the cell saga towards the end?
i never liked the smear about goku being a bad father, i watched the show, goku adores gohan, loves him with all his being. and gohan, adores goku, be it in the future of trunks or the show timeline. it's allways there. it shows especially after the 7 years time skip, in the little gohan arc, gohan missed his dad, only thought good of his dad, same goes for future trunks arc, gohan share tales about his dad. whenever i hear someone say "goku was a bad father" i am like "im out"
People will criticise Goku for the Cell Games, and in the same breath say Piccolo is a better father to Gohan. Difference is Goku knew Gohan had the power to demolish Cell. While Piccolo made Gohan fight Vegeta and Nappa with a power level less than Raditz.
Goku fought Cell so Gohan could see how Cell fight's the zenkai boost Cell got was basically nothing compared to what gohan gained and if Cell was too tired before fighting Gohan he may have just blown up the planet.
Here's why you're wrong, respectfully, and why I love the Cell saga. #1 Cell wasn't Gohan's battle to fight. Cell was created because of Goku, and allowed to become a threat because of Vegeta. Gohan, a literal child, was being forced to deal with a problem that was created and exacerbated by the adult Saiyans in his life. #2 Sportsmanship stops existing when your opponent is actively threatening to kill your entire family if you lose. That is war. Cell was a terrorist and enemy combatant. Goku messed up by treating Cell like a game and not like an existential threat to the people he cares about, and that realization is the face that he is making when Piccolo finally snaps him to the reality that his son is not just going to lose the fight if he's wrong, he's going to die. And that's why I love the Cell saga, because all of the strongest characters make stupid bad decisions that match their character flaws perfectly, and they get appropriately punished for it by the plot.
Don’t know about that good father part…. I know what happens to kids with the father is not around often. Doesn’t matter how much they want to draw it on paper and make it move on TV…. We know the effects and Goku was gone, gone… gone to other planets gone… like he was DEAD AND GONE literally at times. So, miss me with the good father…. However, I wouldn’t tie him being a bad father to this situation.
I still think goku could have achieved super saiyan 2 and defeated cell, but it would have taken losing his son to get there. Chi chi would have never forgiven him for that.
Dragon ball is my goat anime among others I grew up watching yet the flack for certain things of character development and design changes I see yet I don’t question it 🤷♂️ people complain and demand things need to be changed or stay the same yet the community don’t know what they want 🤦♂️ you can’t get mad at something if your not good at it like writing a story for a big anime like dragon ball or Naruto
No goku a bad father, but then again he is a alien superbeast with a head industry. Piccolo is a great father figure also younger than goku so goku is not ideal as a father. Power and experience are two different things goku being a alien might be doing what sayian fathers do (so he not the worst father).
![GUILTY GEAR -STRIVE- Season Pass 4 Playable Character #1 [Queen Dizzy] Trailer](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nXDsAgYXXv4/mqdefault.jpg)
The reason why Goku actually perfected Super Saiyan by staying in the form in his every day life is because in the Time Chamber he noticed Gohan would’ve went Super Saiyan 2 if he didn’t use all his stamina trying to power up. At that moment he decided Gohan had enough but he needed Gohan to get used to being in Super Saiyan so he can use his stamina to get to the next level. Vegeta called it a genius tactic, but Goku only intended for it to be the bridge between SSj1 and SSj2.
I think he realized instead of manually training Gohans upper limit intensely, it was better increasing his base level comfortably. Which honestly is how 99% of humans get better at anything so it makes sense for Gohan. Great writing
@@JohnQueSacc I sometimes shit on dragon ball's incredible mess of plot holes but i've never considered this perspective, it's not master level writing but it is a great detail for sure
This is a great observation
That's why goku and vegeta train in base more in the first place. It's because the super saiyen transformation is a power multiplayer. Increasing base power is paramount. If they trained transformed they tmay gain a thousand in power. But gain a thousand in power training in base form multiplies as fifty thousand extra when transforming in to super
I like the idea of this but it was never actually implied within the story. Goku figures out Grade 4 directly after trying out Grade 3, seeing its weaknesses, and deciding that the normal super saiyan is the best option. Gohan going SSJ2 in the time chamber was an anime only scene to begin with.
Goku tossing Cell a senzu bean: “You’re gonna need this buddy, good luck” 😂🤣
cell : don't mind if i dooooo , gulp .
Goku played the Cell Games like he was listening to the heart of the cards.
MONSTER REBORN!
everything went just according to cake
translator's note: cake means keikaku
translator's note: keikaku means plan
neeeeeerd .
I think something you overlooked when looking at Gokus perception of Gohan as a fighter is Gohans own behaviour in the previous arcs because as far as Goku has seen Gohan has always been willing jump into a fight even if Goku didn't want him to. This happens in the saiyan saga where Gohan is sent home but comes back by his choice fearlessly fighting with Vegeta. He then goes to Namek and fights against people far stronger than him throughout. Goku only saw a Gohan who may have doubted his own abilities when it came to was always down to fight as by time Goku appeared in the Saiyan saga Gohan had gotten over his fears.
Exactly, outside of a few relaxing moments with his son, Goku ever only saw Gohan fighting. Doesn't help the fact that when Goku came back from Yardrat, Gohan was there in battle armor and he chose to train with his dad for the 3 years.
That is why I hate this part of the story, gohan has always been willing to step up. Raditz, sure to save his dad, but when we get to namek he fulling outs himself trying to save someone he doesn’t know, against frieza. Yet when it’s time to save the world he’s like “Nah ima sit this one out.” I understand he doesn’t like to be a martial artist, I just don’t understand why he didn’t want to fight Cell to save all of his loved ones.
wish goku could see gohan beat form 2 frieza's assss .
@@SamJulesGillians because he was still a kid and had issues , you know how little kids are , scared not in controll of there emotions amd like all of us not perfect ,picollo explained it perfectly to goku ,but in my words i say : gohan isn't a a matured martial artist yet , so 1: not a true lust for battle fighter and 2: not a experience fighter , the rest of him getting a rage boost can also be seen as simbolic in reel life , stop being a cowrd and finally do what needs to be done but some need to snap first lol .
@@SamJulesGilliansBecause he was a kid and his dad was actually there. In Namek he's fighting waiting for his dad to come save them. And as for the raditz thing he's throwing a tantrum. Plus Z is low key the story of Gohan and if u look at goku as a support char then the narrative starts making more sense.
From a tactical standpoint, Goku's only error was not forewarning Gohan. Had he told him the plan, especially the bits about the senzu and expecting Cell to pull a Frieza the moment he realized he was dead, it would have been flawless.
Gohan realized it at the right time...during the fight. They had already spent years trying to get gohan to unleash his rage on command and only now during super can he do it.
Gohan would have overthinked it if Goku told him, that's why Goku DIDN'T tell him his plan lol. Goku knows his son and knows how much he overthinks and how much confidence he lacks. He was trying to put him in a stressful situation on purpose, because that's where Gohan would awaken his power when he has no other option, and no plan. If Gohan knew of Goku's plan and how much faith he had in him, knowing Gohan, he would have panicked and ended up angry at himself for not living up to his father's expectations, then he would have failed, causing cell to kill them all. He needed to be put in that stressful situation WITHOUT a plan to ascend. That's entirely what the quote means from what Goku said "Power comes from a need, not a desire" Goku didn't have a plan when he went ssj. It just happened, but that's thanks to his stress and anger being pushed to that point. He was trying to do the same thing with Gohan, and it worked, so he made the right call by not telling him his plan in the end
Yeah, the Senzu Bean was to make Cell overconfident and not ever feel desperate at any time until it was too late… unfortunately Gohan let his power go to his head as well, thus creating the desperate situation.
exactly , goku is a genius , in dbz that is .
R.I.P. Akira Toriyama for the sheer genious and character development of the Saiyan’s on Earth and the Namekian
Even in Abridged, the TFS commentaries even have them say he's more like Homer Simpson than Peter Griffin (or more accurately, they compare his relationship with Gohan to Homer's relationship with Lisa. Which is to say "he cares, he just doesn't understand) how best to show it at times").
lol
Forget the senzu, Goku's only mistake was not chasing (enough) after Gohan's power in the chamber. If you think about it then Gohan had to be stronger than him the moment he turned SS as in previous fights he was already relative in strength to Piccolo who was relative to SS Goku. This angle is overlooked IMO, especially since Goku corrected his mistake and never ever stopped training culminating in SS3 in the Buu arc.
I would assume that Goku believed Gohan had the same lust for fighting as he did which made the situation unnecessarily harder on top of not pursuing SSJ2.
Goku realized in the time he had left he couldn't reach that level and that continuing to use the time chamber was only hurting his body. Look at Vegeta and trunks. They went into the chamber twice and you better believe he trained just as hard if not harder than Goku yet Goku was actually stronger than Vegeta only going in the chamber once and leaving early. It's not a matter of Goku didn't train hard enough but that he wasn't capable at the time to reach that level of power. Who knows how long it took Goku to unlock ss2 and then 3. Probably years and years.
The senzu bean was the right thing to do. Cell wouldn’t have toyed with Gohan, if he was low on energy. Goku knew that Cell would’ve allowed Gohan to reach ssj2 through curiosity. People forget that his psychology is similar to that of a saiyan’s due to him having saiyan dna. Look at the way that Cell was able to manipulate Vegeta.
they explained why they left early, at that point they weren't getting any stronger and needed to rest. to quote master roshi, "Work hard, study well, and eat and sleep plenty! That is the Turtle Hermit way!" and he has also said sometimes you need to slow down, and to take life in. at this point they, or more or less, gohan was on the brink of ssj 2 and needed a catalyst to push beyond that limit. cell was the catalyst for gohan to break his limits. and as davon said, the senzu bean that goku gave to cell probably saved everyone. he wouldn't have toyed around, and if gohan was strong enough to beat the weakend form, he would have nuked the planet and gohan wouldn't have the strength to defeat him.
That’s not really a mistake. At that time, the only two people who unlocked SSJ through strictly training were Vegeta and Gohan. From experience, Goku probably figured that in order for Gohan to reach the next level, he was going to need to be put into a “no going back situation,” example being like when Frieza killed Krillin in front of Goku, and, in Gohan’s case, Cell using his Juniors to beat up all of Gohan’s friends.
The face goku made when Piccolo talked some since to him was literally the " what have I done face".
One of my favorite scenes.
"He's nine!"
Piccolo is a real one.
“He’s a god damn alien!” 😂
Of course he knew because he saw Gohan go SSJ2 very briefly in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. So, yes, he knew.
I always took it as goku seeing that gohan was on the cusp of unlocking 2 but he was too weak to challenge him enough to fully unlock it in training and he judged that cell was too weak after his battle to do the same either, so it'd be losing attrition seeking out the power in the end, so he healed cell so that his power would push gohan into 2. When he noticed that power ceiling in gohan while in the time room, he probably settled for dedicated his training into acclimating to the base super form, so that Gohan could use as much time as he can in battle searching out that extra bit he can't get in training. It seemed that it all lined up properly and goku was so focused on unlocking that moment, he didn't put gohans feelings about fighting into consideration and realised he was pushing him to a limit he didn't care about unlocking, and that caused him to panic at his decision.
I say this all the time. People use the senzu bean thing to call Goku a bad father and say piccolo was better. Piccolo kidnapped and threw a 4 year old into a dinosaur infested forest. And then beat tf out of him for months.
Annddd much worse mistakes were made during this arc. Vegeta fought trunks to help Cell. Krillin destroyed that remote. Trunks didn’t immediately just kill 18 or 17 when he left the chamber.
the reason why goku gave cell a senzu bean was so gohan would know that he beat cell at his best instead that he won cause coku worn down cell's power in that fight
Goku deserves an apology from the whole world
A little off-topic but honestly, Gokou and Cell’s little relationship is the best in the entirety of DragonBall, even greater than Gokou and Piccolo Jr when they first met.
you talking about dbza or dbz lol ?
@@crisalcantara7671
Both
The only mistake I see, is not letting Gohan in on the strategy, as well as involving Picolo in to help train Gohan. Gohan should have been able to achieve SS2 before leaving the Time Chamber. It also would have given Gohan time to get used to fighting at SS2 and get over his ego after achieving the power.
But that's not a mistake. Goku knew gohan had the power and he just couldn't figure how to bring it out and I doubt piccolo wouldn't have been able to either. So goku just did what vegeta would have done Send him out to battle
no wrong , pushing him to hard would over stress his body like vegeta and trunks did , you need time to rest but they weren't resting they were training outside to maintain the ssj1 , this should be done first than you could expand on other forms but there wasn't enough time , cause the best they could do was ssj grade 3 wich was an impracticle form for fighting long battles , ssj 2 did not exist yet so no .
@@mrkwillz17 vegeta would end up losing and taking a senzu bean and lose again , goku had a plan B if he couldn't win and that was gohan .
@@crisalcantara7671 Goku never planned to beat cell in the first place. His plan was to show Gohan how Cell fought.
@crisalcantara7671 no what I'm saying is if vegeta knew trunks had more strength like goku knew about gohan .vegeta would of done the same
Gohan is awesome 😊
I think it was smart to spend those days peacefully, he wanted Gohan to have something to save.
I still never understood why the hyperbolic time chamber became the "chamber of spirit and time" when that was originally the name of the "pendulum room" because the hyperbolic did have slower time than earth, but hte pendulum room sent a warriors spirit through time as you saw with Krillin, yamcha, chioutzu and tien in the saiyan saga when they went into the pendulum room spirit of time and their spirits got sent back in time to the saiyan war (which is why when they were killed they woke up back on earth unharmed) for their training, which is why that was originally the "chamber of spirit and time"
THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone said it!!
Can you put the artwork at 6:48 in your discord🙏its very cool
My @ is anindecision
Because he literally explained it in THE SHOW!!!!
It was just for some seconds but the first ssj2 was born on that training chamber. The fear on goku face when he sow gohan almost going to ssj2 was prisceless only when gohan passed out goku returned to normal. Like ufff i dont have to fight a kid with way more power then myself.)
Goku also wanted Gohan to reach this heightened state of power because Goku knew he wouldn't be around forever. Someone else would have to take up the mantle.
That could be an interesting "What if?"
What if Goku brought Piccolo with him and Gohan during his time in the ROSAT?
The Time Chamber was limited to two people because of the resources.
However, Piccolo doesn't need to eat.
Prediction/Theory:
Gohan "knows the plan" and achieves SS2 while inside.
Gohan's arrogance slowly grows during the week of peace.
Gohan asks to fight Cell last because he knows he's the strongest.
He suggests allowing others to "have a chance" before him and Goku.
Fake reason: To demoralize him.
Real reason: To torture him.
Goku still goes first.
Gohan stops Goku from giving Cell a Sensu.
(Intercepts Sensu bean) "Dad, I don't think Cell needs any extra help"
Long story short --> Cell blows up earlier
Goku sacrifices himself -->
Angerly, Gohan tortures Super Perfect Cell causing him to vomit both Androids.
Cell's self-destruct is weaker.
I’ve always said it was smart for Goku to have gohan fight because cell really didn’t have much on gohan like the others, which gave him an advantage. I think Goku could’ve won really but he wanted his son to make that push
One thing I disagree with: Goku didnt give Cell the Senzu Bean out of any compulsion towards fair play because Goku always takes life or death fights seriously and doesnt show mercy beyond choosing not to kill despite what Super would have you believe (just ask Nappa or Recoome), Goku gave Cell the Senzu Bean so that when Gohan kicked the green off of him Gohan would know he did it 100% on his own, Goku didnt weaken Cell first. It was intended to boost Gohans confidence in himself after he won.
I always wondered if goku and gohan went back in... I know the whole body grueling aspect but gohan was at a point of technique lack rather than power and the fact its a time chamber alone with a partner for another year it would have been perfected as well... imagine a fully unlocked ss2 gohan casually walking out of the chamber. It changes everything. In some ways potentially worse.
The only reason it’s Because of plot, there is no excusing that decision, the whole stress on the body is a stupid excuse because senzu beans and healing magic are a thing and it’s never brought up again, and like you stated the extra time to polish technique would have been useful.
The intro bro👌🏽
You know what would be funny after mastering SSJ Goku's regular hair just turns blond.
I know it's not canon that bardock was a scientist but it's kind of cool that goku's son also wants to be a scientist and gohans daughter seems to want to fight like goku.
I don't think Goku accounted for the zenkai boost that cell got and that kind of threw things for a loop more than he might expected
Wait I never really thought about this but, how strong is ssj2 teen gohan?! I understand gohan got weaker during the timeskip going into the buu arc. That being said, during his fight with dabura vegeta stated that cell games gohan would of easily delt with dabura! Where would ssj2 teen gohan fair rank in the buu arc?
Stronger than everyone except himself was in the Cell Saga, and while significantly lower than timeskip Goku and Vegeta, still the 3rd best on the good side. He'd still mop Piccolo, Shin, Krillin, the boys, etc, without much effort. It just wasn't enough for Dabura and Buu. And the way I understood it, once he "figured it out" thanks to Goku's advice in-between rounds against Dabura, a fresh SSJ2 Gohan prob beats Dabura. But he had been beaten down by Dabura in the first fight, whereas if the fight started right at round 2, I think he wins, THEN gets smacked around by Buu.
Goku: All according to cake
Gohan spent his youth getting pummeled by green people for a power up 😂
Gohan was already stronger than goku in his super 1 form anyway. As he said to gohan in the anime, you only thought I was holding back because you were comparing my strength to your own.
Goku has a few mistakes in this. 1 I saw in the comments, Goku didn't tell Gohan the plan. He didn't tell him the potential he saw. 2 he got out the chamber early saying he didn't see a point in training more, when he could have just rested in the chamber and keep training to assure Gohan had more time to control his potential, instead of hoping he would pull out a miracle . It would have been more time of rest in the chamber than the few days before the cell games. 3 He didn't account for his son's natural character. Gohan has never killed before and he went into the fight expecting Gohan to be the one to kill cell. 4 choosing to fight fair against someone who was a threat to the planet. Vegeta knew what was up when he launched that attack that gave Gohan the edge. If they all jumped cell, Goku wouldn't have died. Imagine if all of them just blasted the crap out of cell at full power before the senzu bean.. last but not least, is not striving for the power level he saw in Gohan himself. For someone who always wants to break the limits he finds and become the strongest fighter, it's out of character for him to just take a back seat to even Gohan. He wants to fight everyone but not cell? I call bull lol
The only thing i ever wondered was how did Goku know that gohans new form would be enough for Cell? He wasnt even in perfect form yet
Goku did exactly what vegeta would of done if he was in this situation if he knew how strong his son was
Really tho? The cell arc vegeta? The one who was feeling himself the whole time after unlocking ssj and sold for a better fight?
THAT Vegeta?
Goku always tries to protect Gohan and help him unlock his own powers
Goku knows how Gohan's Powers work
So let me ask you this (please reply I’d like to know your take on this someone with some actual dragon ball IQ)… so since Goku decided to send gohan into the fight even though he could finish it himself , do you think that goku was really stronger than gohan in the cell saga towards the end?
It’s also this knowledge that led him to trust in the next generation in the Buu saga…
i never liked the smear about goku being a bad father, i watched the show, goku adores gohan, loves him with all his being. and gohan, adores goku, be it in the future of trunks or the show timeline. it's allways there. it shows especially after the 7 years time skip, in the little gohan arc, gohan missed his dad, only thought good of his dad, same goes for future trunks arc, gohan share tales about his dad.
whenever i hear someone say "goku was a bad father" i am like "im out"
Where was the trickery part?
Gokuu: BYE SON :3
People will criticise Goku for the Cell Games, and in the same breath say Piccolo is a better father to Gohan. Difference is Goku knew Gohan had the power to demolish Cell. While Piccolo made Gohan fight Vegeta and Nappa with a power level less than Raditz.
People tend to think that Gohan is a bitch but if he cared about fighting as much as his father he would be unbeatable!
Yeeaah. Tell them facts.
I wonder how strong is Full Power Frieza and Super Saiyan Goku in the Z Anime compared to the Manga ? .
💯 analysis 🗣️ ✔️
No zenki boost ? He got his top blown off and after that sensu bean he was stronger than before
Facts
Why couldn’t Goku train Gohan until Gohan mastered SSJ2? Not like a rage transformation but like a regular transformation like SSJ Grade 4
Goku fought Cell so Gohan could see how Cell fight's the zenkai boost Cell got was basically nothing compared to what gohan gained and if Cell was too tired before fighting Gohan he may have just blown up the planet.
Goku giving Cell the senzu bean was dumb. Cell taking the bean said a lot too. I think Gohan power level was 5,000,000 higher than Gokus.
Here's why you're wrong, respectfully, and why I love the Cell saga.
#1 Cell wasn't Gohan's battle to fight. Cell was created because of Goku, and allowed to become a threat because of Vegeta. Gohan, a literal child, was being forced to deal with a problem that was created and exacerbated by the adult Saiyans in his life.
#2 Sportsmanship stops existing when your opponent is actively threatening to kill your entire family if you lose. That is war. Cell was a terrorist and enemy combatant. Goku messed up by treating Cell like a game and not like an existential threat to the people he cares about, and that realization is the face that he is making when Piccolo finally snaps him to the reality that his son is not just going to lose the fight if he's wrong, he's going to die.
And that's why I love the Cell saga, because all of the strongest characters make stupid bad decisions that match their character flaws perfectly, and they get appropriately punished for it by the plot.
Gohan would of lost without help of the other fighters so technically he wasn't strong enough to single handily beat cell
WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR SAVE DATA NOOOOOOOOO
Goku is the best Fhater. He was for me too
Don’t know about that good father part…. I know what happens to kids with the father is not around often. Doesn’t matter how much they want to draw it on paper and make it move on TV…. We know the effects and Goku was gone, gone… gone to other planets gone… like he was DEAD AND GONE literally at times. So, miss me with the good father….
However, I wouldn’t tie him being a bad father to this situation.
I still think goku could have achieved super saiyan 2 and defeated cell, but it would have taken losing his son to get there. Chi chi would have never forgiven him for that.
Dragon ball is my goat anime among others I grew up watching yet the flack for certain things of character development and design changes I see yet I don’t question it 🤷♂️ people complain and demand things need to be changed or stay the same yet the community don’t know what they want 🤦♂️ you can’t get mad at something if your not good at it like writing a story for a big anime like dragon ball or Naruto
I like your videos man but the red circle and arrow on the thumbnails have to go
Not Today Galvatron.
@@SaiyanScholar 😂
Gohan was the only option. Goku was still weaker and he was 2nd strongest
No goku a bad father, but then again he is a alien superbeast with a head industry. Piccolo is a great father figure also younger than goku so goku is not ideal as a father. Power and experience are two different things goku being a alien might be doing what sayian fathers do (so he not the worst father).
Migatte no gokui
He’s not a bad person but he definitely not a good dad lol piccolo is
No Goku is a bad father 😞😭
5 minutes ago, nice
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just gie this commet to 100 likes pls im desperate
i mess up on the word give so the grammar police don't get on me.
Toyotaro and super ruined dragon ball and goku
Facts
Toyotaro was just a messenger though, the story of super is still from Toriyama-sama.