I always find the "After this, i'm retiring" trope to be kind of compelling when used in the right situation. It instantly brings some tension to a situation if one of your favourite characters's is about to retire. The author knows the trope, the audience knows the trope; suddenly your favourite character is at risk of dying and you don't know if the author is playing with your expectations.
Curnden Craw from Joe Abercrombie’s ‘The Hero’s’ is the greatest example of the “after this, I’m retiring” I can think of. Essentially because of how his retirement turns out 😂
You two remind me of my favorite friendships in novels. Jean and Locke from the Gentleman Bastards Sequence; and Aren and Cade from The Darkwater Legacy. Such great chemistry.
When I think of Justice as a character motivation, I think of Inspector Javert from Les Mis. I think it’s most interesting when the justice motive deals with the character’s definition of justice and how it plays with their view of morality.
1:32:56 “for the greater good” works as an underlying motivation, and I feel I’ve accomplished that with a character I’ve written, but an example could be Zod in Man of Steel.
I think the Great Reset is an example of CHARACTER - it shows how deranged a character's psychology is; it's not predicated on reason, but is ultimately the impulse to punish dressed up as salvation, which is what makes it at once so dangerous (good intentions) and so repulsive (sadistic). I'd put it at least in A: I just don't know if there's a more nefarious impetus for evil...an outright sadist enjoys inflicting pain, but at least he makes it clear. The Great Resetter though...
Books and character motivations aside, Austin kinda looks like Freddie Highmore from the side when he smiles. Sometimes it catches me by surprise, in a nice way. :)
I’ve only seen clips from the Good Doctor but that man knows how to ACT. Freddie and I have that in common because I act like Richard’s my friend every episode 🙌
Random recommendations BUT seeing as Austin is obsessed with red rising. I say you need to pick up the will of the many. It’s like red rising meets kingkiller pure Awesomeness🤩
Maquin from Faith and fallen series is one of my current favorite character development characters. Justice, Freedom, For glory and a few other all melting together and such a poetic ending to his storyline.
To go into detail would be to give spoilers since this is Shadowbringers and Endwalker but Emet-Selch's story kind of falls under the great reset trope....though its stretching it just a bit.
New sub!🙋🏻♀️ came here for red rising review, watched both ranking vids now in the past 24 hrs and what I have learned is this: I obviously must read Wheel of Time….. and it better change my life 😂
The first 2 John Wick movies do an amazing job with character motivation for John: 1 - Revenge, 2 - Indebted. I think they did such a great job at making natural character motivation for the sequel movie based on the original character motivation.
something that makes honor a great trope is other characters taking advantage of a characters honors and putting them in a situation where they can't say no.
Last comment (😂) - I think your Making Parents Proud might be better categorized as Approval of Others, broadening it in scope a bit. Great job, guys! Thoroughly enjoyed it!
I kinda like the greater good. When a villain truly believes what they are doing is necessary and they have some validity to their claim. Not Thanos. Thanos had unlimited power and chose the dumbest option. I’ve read the comments so I know Austin has finished Golden Son. I love Darrow and Nero’s conversation at the end of the book where he’s realising Nero truly believes for man to go on the Hierarchy is crucial. He believe oppressing the low colours is the only way Society can keep surviving
I think the lazy and lacks motivation could be just a smudge higher for the plots where the character is just very overpowered, they mastered everything there is to master, nothing challemges him/her anymore... they won at life but they still have to live, a fun example of that is one punch man when in the first few episodes we just see him living the most normal and boring life just not motivated to do anything but he still has to get up and fight the big bad of the week just because no one else can
tbf: history nerd here and native RIer (Aquidneck Island was lost to the British for three years; the American military fled and left the island for the taking) It was not a single tax. It was a series of "Here's a new tax." Oh, we're repealing this tax but here's another one. (and the intolerable acts as well went far beyond taxes. Quartering was not a "Take in this redcoat to live with you, please" People could be kicked out of their homes to quarter soldiers. Also: Lexington was fought and done in about 15 minutes.
1:39:00 - 1:39:16 this entire sequence 😂😂😂😂😂 1:39:27 LOL BABES I honestly would love to do my tier rankings separately as I watch, but booktube is mainly my work background watch 😂😂 1:41:32 legends and lattes ❤ 1:41:49 LEGENDS AND LATTES RICHARD 😂😂😂😂
I know you guys joke a lot about the length of the podcasts and you guys have lives, but honestly the long form discussion is what I come for. Honestly it could have been 100 motivations instead of 55 and I still would watch, the more the better. EDIT: I don't know the movie reference
Great video and even better list the only thing I would change is "righting a wrong" from A to S because redemption arcs are so good 👍 I thought ZSJL was fantastic I just think Zack Snyder shouldn't be left unsupervised when using slow motion 😂🤦
Strong disagree with just following orders. I think it is best not when it is the fodder but the captains or squad leaders who not only are given orders but then have to give them to others. The best is like the best of patriotism and even motivation decay where they have to grapple with the fact that the orders they are being given no longer align with the reason of why they are fighting and they begin to see how their orders are impacting the other side as well as their own troops. My most recent favorite is Father Captain de Soya from Endymion who does it so well of being a man of obedience but struggles with the fact that the orders he is being given seems so contrary to his faith and what he believes the church and its army to be fighting for
I think the perceived quality of Thanos' motivation comes down to suspension of disbelief. If you can suspend your disbelief about the practicality of Thanos' solution, then I think the motivation works. The emotional beats work for Thanos IMO. But if you can't suspend your disbelief about how collossally dumb the solution is, it's hard to connect cause then Thanos just seems like a huge dummy dingus. I don't think there's a RIGHT answer about whether you should or shouldn't suspend your disbelief. Personally I actually can suspend my disbelief with Thanos, but I feel about Coco how many people feel about Thanos. I can't suspend my disbelief that mutliple generations of a family are traumatized by music of all things, and therefore the family's motivation, miguel's conflict with the family and their motivation, and consequently the movie as a whole, doesn't work for me at all. Why can I suspend my disbelief with Thanos but not Miguel's family?????? I have no idea.
Interesting one - I (austin) might put it somewhere below average. I find the desire to not travel but then suddenly being forced your hand to go on this grand adventure (Bilbo Baggins, WOT, etc) is a bit more compelling
@@2ToRamble Interesting! I'd have put it just above average, as i find the ingenuity of it compelling. The idea that you just HAVE to see the world always felt like a strong motivation to me, and it opens up the possibility of a more contemplative adventure, rather than action-seeking.
Richard here. I liked the second book, but I loved the first more. For me, I was satisfied with the end of the first. If you were not, then you should read the second.
"My Mom wouldn't let me have Lunchables" has major Dr Doofenshmirtz vibes.
😂
"Childhood Dream" is just every single One Piece character pretty much lol
If I wasn’t already a Patron I would’ve become one just for that magnificent Les Miserables opening.
DO YOU HEAR THE PEOPLE SING 🎶
For the “after this I’m retiring” trope, The Heroes by Joe Abercrombie does it well
Teft is a great example of addiction that works well as a motivation.
For sure
"Bound by honor" is basically Ned Stark at the core and also Rob Stark at a great extent, and their character arc are sooo good
"I'm bored" one punch man. Does this SO well
"the greater good! The greater good! -hot fuzz??? I absolutely love that movie
🙌
*The Greater Good*- Hot Fuzz loved that plot twist
I always find the "After this, i'm retiring" trope to be kind of compelling when used in the right situation. It instantly brings some tension to a situation if one of your favourite characters's is about to retire. The author knows the trope, the audience knows the trope; suddenly your favourite character is at risk of dying and you don't know if the author is playing with your expectations.
Oo Thats a good pooint
Curnden Craw from Joe Abercrombie’s ‘The Hero’s’ is the greatest example of the “after this, I’m retiring” I can think of. Essentially because of how his retirement turns out 😂
Immediately think of the The Bloody Nine with that intro 💪
The Bloody Nine sings Les Mis songs???
You two remind me of my favorite friendships in novels. Jean and Locke from the Gentleman Bastards Sequence; and Aren and Cade from The Darkwater Legacy. Such great chemistry.
Damn thank you!
Richard's battlefield alter ego is "The Baldy Nine".
The count of Monte Cristo is the ultimate revenge trope
Hot Fuzz: THE GREATER GOOD
THATS RIGHT! I (austin) totally forgot and Ive seen the movie too. Damniiiiit
Greater Good is from Hot Fuzz, a British buddy cop comedy from Edgar Wright.
So I did the math, the odds of getting 6 ties in a row in rock paper scissors is 0.14% of happening or in fractions a 7/5000 chance.
“After this I’m retiring” is done well in the first law: the heroes with Curnden Craw.
Yes! Especially because of how they ended it.
I think Lightsong is a hedonist. I think it's always enjoyable when the selfish hedonist does something noble / unselfish
Ooo I see, and especially because he recognizes his hedonism. Great point
When I think of Justice as a character motivation, I think of Inspector Javert from Les Mis. I think it’s most interesting when the justice motive deals with the character’s definition of justice and how it plays with their view of morality.
1:32:56 “for the greater good” works as an underlying motivation, and I feel I’ve accomplished that with a character I’ve written, but an example could be Zod in Man of Steel.
Love the Hot Fuzz reference!! The greater goooood lmao 😂
I think the Great Reset is an example of CHARACTER - it shows how deranged a character's psychology is; it's not predicated on reason, but is ultimately the impulse to punish dressed up as salvation, which is what makes it at once so dangerous (good intentions) and so repulsive (sadistic). I'd put it at least in A: I just don't know if there's a more nefarious impetus for evil...an outright sadist enjoys inflicting pain, but at least he makes it clear. The Great Resetter though...
This is no fair. I read this in your narration voice snd it made your argument more compelling 😂
@@2ToRamble Whatever it takes to WIN!
I like Hyperion for the “Great Reset” idea. It is also my favorite book though, so I may be biased
Putting revolution that low hurts. Lots of my favorite stories have revolution as a compelling motivation such as Red Rising and Mistborn.
Oo fair point, this was before I (austin) read Red Rising
Books and character motivations aside, Austin kinda looks like Freddie Highmore from the side when he smiles. Sometimes it catches me by surprise, in a nice way. :)
I’ve only seen clips from the Good Doctor but that man knows how to ACT. Freddie and I have that in common because I act like Richard’s my friend every episode 🙌
Hot Fuzz! It’s a must that you have to repeat the phrase “the greater good “ every time you hear it.
Random recommendations BUT seeing as Austin is obsessed with red rising. I say you need to pick up the will of the many. It’s like red rising meets kingkiller pure Awesomeness🤩
Maquin from Faith and fallen series is one of my current favorite character development characters. Justice, Freedom, For glory and a few other all melting together and such a poetic ending to his storyline.
To go into detail would be to give spoilers since this is Shadowbringers and Endwalker but Emet-Selch's story kind of falls under the great reset trope....though its stretching it just a bit.
New sub!🙋🏻♀️ came here for red rising review, watched both ranking vids now in the past 24 hrs and what I have learned is this: I obviously must read Wheel of Time….. and it better change my life 😂
😂 thanks for watching the chaos
The first 2 John Wick movies do an amazing job with character motivation for John: 1 - Revenge, 2 - Indebted. I think they did such a great job at making natural character motivation for the sequel movie based on the original character motivation.
Austin have you finished Golden Son yet??
Yes. Review coming. Much. Much. Much to say !
something that makes honor a great trope is other characters taking advantage of a characters honors and putting them in a situation where they can't say no.
Definitely true!
Last comment (😂) - I think your Making Parents Proud might be better categorized as Approval of Others, broadening it in scope a bit. Great job, guys! Thoroughly enjoyed it!
Glad ya loved it - thanks for all the comments and watching
The Riyria Revelations uses the "After this, I'm retiring" motivation a few times with the main characters.
“Protagonist isn’t actually dead” is one you could do also. Rings of power for me, especially if there’s a mcguffin to bring them back to life.
Ahh yep - thats one we missed!
I know one example doesn't make a motivation......but Judge Frollo from Hunchback. Lust was a very compelling motivation.
Did Richard just say “the ‘a’ is too big”??????? 59:21 😂😂😂😂😂
Yes. He’s a disorganized man that loves organization lol
I kinda like the greater good. When a villain truly believes what they are doing is necessary and they have some validity to their claim. Not Thanos. Thanos had unlimited power and chose the dumbest option. I’ve read the comments so I know Austin has finished Golden Son.
I love Darrow and Nero’s conversation at the end of the book where he’s realising Nero truly believes for man to go on the Hierarchy is crucial. He believe oppressing the low colours is the only way Society can keep surviving
Fair point!
I think the lazy and lacks motivation could be just a smudge higher for the plots where the character is just very overpowered, they mastered everything there is to master, nothing challemges him/her anymore... they won at life but they still have to live, a fun example of that is one punch man when in the first few episodes we just see him living the most normal and boring life just not motivated to do anything but he still has to get up and fight the big bad of the week just because no one else can
Yes I’m pretty sure that was Charlie from lost with the drug addiction. It was a pretty small part of the plot but I think a good example nontheless
Just Want to be Normal - I think Matt from WOT is a good example of this.
tbf: history nerd here and native RIer (Aquidneck Island was lost to the British for three years; the American military fled and left the island for the taking) It was not a single tax. It was a series of "Here's a new tax." Oh, we're repealing this tax but here's another one. (and the intolerable acts as well went far beyond taxes. Quartering was not a "Take in this redcoat to live with you, please" People could be kicked out of their homes to quarter soldiers.
Also: Lexington was fought and done in about 15 minutes.
Community for the better could be Ekko from Arcane!
1:39:00 - 1:39:16 this entire sequence 😂😂😂😂😂 1:39:27 LOL BABES
I honestly would love to do my tier rankings separately as I watch, but booktube is mainly my work background watch 😂😂
1:41:32 legends and lattes ❤ 1:41:49 LEGENDS AND LATTES RICHARD 😂😂😂😂
Love it, love these ranking videos.
More to come!
For greed I immediately thought of Smaug from The Hobbit.
A cornetto for the greater good!
I know you guys joke a lot about the length of the podcasts and you guys have lives, but honestly the long form discussion is what I come for. Honestly it could have been 100 motivations instead of 55 and I still would watch, the more the better.
EDIT: I don't know the movie reference
Ahh thank you very much - we will keep the long form coming!
Maquin faith and the falled has a good retirement goal
Following orders is a super shitty version of loyalty and patriotism, I feel
Freedom deserves an A for "A-MURICA"
1:04:44 - sounds like Richard is related to Monk 😂
1:09:53 OMG, True !!
This episode really Toddered my Teetter
Goated Comment
Richard is so done in this episode lol
S tier intro 🤣
Great video and even better list the only thing I would change is "righting a wrong" from A to S because redemption arcs are so good 👍
I thought ZSJL was fantastic I just think Zack Snyder shouldn't be left unsupervised when using slow motion 😂🤦
😂😂 thank you
If you want a thrillseeker done better than any in all of fantasy... Logen Ninefingers. One of the best characters ever written.
Living out Childhood Dreams - What about Field of Dreams or movies like that?
Definitely yes yes
Richie used the Just Us pun from Avatar. Didn’t give it it’s proper citation! Very disappointed
the movie reference was hot fuzz right?
What about Szeth from The Way of Kings for “Just following Orders” 🤷🏻♂️?
Good pick!
1:27:07 - Joker
Please read and review the will of the many by James Islington, I think you'll have a lot of opinions
I'm going to pick this book up this week
@@2ToRamble I finished it in two days and I loved it
Strong disagree with just following orders. I think it is best not when it is the fodder but the captains or squad leaders who not only are given orders but then have to give them to others. The best is like the best of patriotism and even motivation decay where they have to grapple with the fact that the orders they are being given no longer align with the reason of why they are fighting and they begin to see how their orders are impacting the other side as well as their own troops. My most recent favorite is Father Captain de Soya from Endymion who does it so well of being a man of obedience but struggles with the fact that the orders he is being given seems so contrary to his faith and what he believes the church and its army to be fighting for
I think the perceived quality of Thanos' motivation comes down to suspension of disbelief. If you can suspend your disbelief about the practicality of Thanos' solution, then I think the motivation works. The emotional beats work for Thanos IMO. But if you can't suspend your disbelief about how collossally dumb the solution is, it's hard to connect cause then Thanos just seems like a huge dummy dingus. I don't think there's a RIGHT answer about whether you should or shouldn't suspend your disbelief. Personally I actually can suspend my disbelief with Thanos, but I feel about Coco how many people feel about Thanos. I can't suspend my disbelief that mutliple generations of a family are traumatized by music of all things, and therefore the family's motivation, miguel's conflict with the family and their motivation, and consequently the movie as a whole, doesn't work for me at all. Why can I suspend my disbelief with Thanos but not Miguel's family?????? I have no idea.
Have either of you guys watched attack on Titan? You will absolutely it up if you haven’t.
I (austin) havent and don’t think Richard has either 👀
@@2ToRamble IMO, it’s the GOAT of anime and one of my favorite stories of all time. Big on the freedom aspect. Update me/us if you watch it!!
Have you guys given Malazan a shot?
Not yet - we’re doing a Wheel of Time readthrough first. But definitely need to give Malazan a read
Where would you put "Wanderlust" in there?
Interesting one - I (austin) might put it somewhere below average. I find the desire to not travel but then suddenly being forced your hand to go on this grand adventure (Bilbo Baggins, WOT, etc) is a bit more compelling
@@2ToRamble Interesting! I'd have put it just above average, as i find the ingenuity of it compelling. The idea that you just HAVE to see the world always felt like a strong motivation to me, and it opens up the possibility of a more contemplative adventure, rather than action-seeking.
You guys are both my names 😅 in order of presentation, but with an s.
Have you guys read The fall of Hyperion? And would you recommend it after reading the first?
Richard here. I liked the second book, but I loved the first more. For me, I was satisfied with the end of the first. If you were not, then you should read the second.
Let us know what you think if you read it.
Past Hurts - so you guys don’t think this is a good motivator for Magneto?
Star trek right?
Sorry to blow up your comments. Just wanted to share things as I thought of them. Greed - Ocean’s 11
And just about any other heist story. 😁
We love that you blew up out comments 👊. And yeah heist stories - cant believe we missed that for Greed! Great catch
austinnn, watch hunter x hunter!!!! it's my favorite anime/manga ever.
yes, hisoka is creepy and a perfect example of thrillseeker
Does Death Note count as "I'm Bored"?
I (austin) havent seen Death Note so it could - but One Punch Man definitely fits too!