finally! the only youtuber who talks abt this issue. duo has to go. loot is not a good enough incentive for a normal trials plyr. i want to have fun. 3 stack was the most fun i used to have in trials. but since they made duo , 3 stack trails became pain because of low population. i just play solo now and manage to go flawless easy every weekend and i have all the loot, but it's not as fun. 3 stack is the most fun playing with friends but low population has made 3 stack no fun. duo has to go.
Totally agree with your comment about map rotation, every time I play I start with a good map like Endless, then boom cathedral and disjunction back to back and I’m done
I have wanted to pair the bzr with fighting lion for FOREVER Now I can lol! That built in "enhanced hipfire grip" is so nice! It's a midrange pulse that can also be used up close. Literally fills my role as a all-rounder gun forblion
To ur conspiracy theory on map weighting, I wonder if there’s something with a match ending, quickly exiting the game and starting a new match (fast approach)vs staying in queue and waiting for a new match (slow approach) for getting different maps in rotation
hey mate thanks for the perspective i love watching the fighting lion kills, i never thought about those issues i'm not the biggest trials player but love your insight
I find your opinions on the game to be very grounded and balanced, with a clear intention to avoid hyperbole. I enjoy your content. If you ever happen to match me in Trials, take off Fighting Lion and equip Alethonym. 😂
Ability cooldown nerfs will not only reduce ability spam, but also will hurt unpopular abilities and subclasses. Sunbreaker feels bad and will be even worse. Strand warlock is in the same boat
@@Sol_Unshadowed I don’t think Strand warlock deserves mentioned in the same breath as Sunbreaker. I’ve seen that class used to great effect with Eye of Another world
This is a change that is 100% overdue, you cannot verify the integrity of trials because on PC there are so many cheaters it’s not worth it, now you bring incentive to play the mode
Hey, an epic video as always-it’s great to hear your thoughts on stuff like this. I wanted to share something I commented on a similar video about issues in Crucible, but I think it’s worth repeating here: First and foremost, the ability cooldown nerf shows that Bungie either doesn’t know how to balance abilities in the current sandbox or that it’s just not a priority. The real issue with most abilities isn’t cooldown-it’s potency. This blanket nerf isn’t going to shift the meta much, and it’s hard to see how it’ll make the sandbox more balanced. 1. Scorch: It’s fine as is, but the regen delay after being scorched needs to be reduced. You should start regenerating health sooner-something like the catalyst on Tommy’s Matchbook-so you can actually get back in the fight. 2. Smokes: Smokes shouldn’t weaken, slow, and blind. It’s ridiculous that they do all three. This needs to be toned down or reworked entirely in PvP. 3. Gun Balance: Guns shouldn’t hit like commercial-grade fridges. The aim assist on things like pulses (e.g., Iggy, Rose, Kvhostov, Legato) makes them way too easy to use. Unless you play aggressively like the gameplay here, you’re going to lose more often than you should. 4. Controller Nerf Needed: Aim assist is necessary, but let’s be real-a good controller player with a $200+ controller feels like they’re running aimbot. If you’re on M&K, you’re almost guaranteed to lose unless you have top-tier aim or manage to catch them off guard. 5. Ammo Meter: The current setup is a mess. Fusions and shotguns dominate because players can charge or ape into guaranteed trades. If you’re not using these weapons, you’re at a disadvantage. I can’t count how many Trials matches I’ve lost where my deaths were only to fusions or slug shotguns, and Trials Report shows those players didn’t get a single primary kill yet still top-fragged. These weapons need toning down, but the root problem is that giving 1-shot kill potential to all 3 players at the start of every round (plus extra ammo boxes) is terrible design. Bringing back the ammo meter would help balance things. Snipers and trace rifles would need adjustments (e.g., less flinch or faster ammo regen), but those could be worked out. 6. Melee Lunge/Double Melee: This is the biggest issue. There’s no reason an unpowered melee should deal half your health. If someone punches you first and you don’t have a special, you’re done (especially against Titans). The damage is ridiculous, and with players slingshotting around, it’s nearly impossible to counter. Knockout makes this even worse-I’ve been slug-shotgun-KO-punched from 12+ meters more times than I can count, and the bad netcode just amplifies the problem. Melees should be supplemental damage (like in Overwatch or Marvel Rivals), not a deciding factor. Nerfing melee range and tightening hit registration (e.g., within a radius and specific angle) would not only make melee more consistent but also make close-range primary combat viable again. There are obviously other outliers, like Arc Slide, Knockout, and Diamond Lance, but I wanted to focus on general sandbox issues rather than nitpicking every ability. Sorry for the long comment, Honestly, I might toss this into the official forums (if Bungie even reads those). I say all this because I love the game and want to see it succeed, but the current sandbox is just bad. It’s sad to watch. Great video though you’re the goat
Hey man thanks for taking the time to lay out your thoughts, as a fellow MnK player who shares a lot of your opinions I think it's important to note that the biggest problem with controllers is the fact that aim assist stacks with frame rate. This means on console the aim assist is fairly well balanced and it really is only on those new gen consoles and PC where you really see people abusing 360hz and fps. It's a tough issue to solve, but as you say it's definitely a problem. When it comes to abilities I agree with some of what you said and disagree with others. I think we can both agree that the special weapon and ability status quo needs significant reworking. Thanks again thanks for sharing your opinion!
Thnx for the video. I agree with you completely. Trials basically a no-go for me because I am not good enough to consistently go flawless in the current system; it's a time sink. Getting ANY 7 wins makes it much more approachable for me and I assume the population will increase. The guys from my clan are like "this is the worst possible thing Bungie could have done for the game" although basically none of them play Trials. Their argument being that Trials is supposed to be for the elite and it's fine to play 50 games without getting adept loot because you're not good enough. I am genuinely looking forward to the changes.
I'm what I would consider a low skill to very-low skill solo player. I was on board until they started talking about incentivizing people playing in a fire team. I don't want to use lfg and yet I feel like I'm going to be punished for being bad and being solo. But finding a non toxic group when you're low skill is nigh on impossible. The remainder of the update seems like enough to get me playing in the pool more often.
Yeah I feel like the solution I offered making trials 3s or solos only would remove the need to incentivize playing 3 stack. As a solo player I agree its frustrating seeing 3s get more loot for the same/less effort.
Unfortunately, I won’t be attempting the new trials revamp. Too discouraged from years of anxiety and depression. I’ve never attempted trials, and I’ve been here since curse of Osiris. It’s simply too late to start now, and I don’t have any motivation to start playing it.
Hey man thanks for leaving your opinion, as there are a lot of players out there who feel the exact same as you. If you dont mind me asking, can you see anything that would bring you into giving the gamemode a try? I ask this because people like you are the ones Bungie really need to target with future Trials changes and any feedback you could offer may be invaluable.
Honestly bro with that mindset ur never gonna go flawless. I used to be in the lower skill bracket but after many matches attempted I really improved and now I’m 2300 elo and have almost 200 flawlesses mainly solo queue. If anything these new changes are gonna make it more forgiving for a more casual player like you. Give it a shot and try to improve. Cammy cakes has some great guides for newer trials players that will help you succeed. I’m not even that skilled but with a bit of teamplay and learning the maps you will go flawless
i feel that, map weighting feels unchanged, i play exclusively solo due to nobody on my friends list still playing the game, but yes i feel im still getting crap maps more than not, agree with you completely, bring special back and let ppl enjoy the game, instead of primary teamshot meta
The amount of trials weekends i win 5 in a row as a solo against solos only to then get games with duos and lose because my duo is absolutely garbage pissed me off so im glad i wont pay because 2 guys want an easy carry
Won’t 3 stacks just also abuse the whole if the whole team goes flawless they end up in the performance pool by just having someone not go flawless or just swapping someone out or even resetting again to stay in the easier pool.
At the end of the day great breakdown of the changes Epic and have always loved watching your gameplay and playstyle. Even tried it myself when you could feasibly use double gls just took a lot of getting used too so I envy the skill 😅🫡
I agree that duo should just be gone. However, that weekly performance based match making is already there when you play on a 7 win card in the present game (once it's flawed at least). And I've tried hard to test it and I don't think I've noticed a difference. Especially in solos. They also did mention that it will flip to open skill if you don't find a match quickly. I'm just not sure the matchmaking will be that bad
@ it’s maybe worth a mention I’m on console? I know PC can be a different beast entirely. They very quietly snuck the verbiage onto the flawed cards a while back. So as long as they’re using that same matchmaking preference, I’m hopeful it’s negligible and is really there to protect the “practice pool” sort of player base
I have no fucking chance at winning against a trio, can't wait. Freelance or maybe bungie could move to a 3v3 one of each even type of system. Force trios. Loss forgiveness is cool, but damn it feels bad playing unwinnable games.
Yeah I think it really comes down to an issue of fairness. I think the thing that people like the most about solo que is the games are generally the most fair out of all the Trials gamemodes. Yeah you might get bad players on ur team but that bit of RNG is equal for both teams and over multiple games usually balances out. This new system is just gonna fuck solo players, and I really don't see why they're so stubborn with allowing 2 stacks to play at the expense of the majority of players.
They probably won’t do just solos and just trios because most of the population would just opt to solo thus making trio’s an eventual sweat feast that no one plays. Fireteam finder and LFG won’t solve this, just look at Duel destiny and all the push back that got. Just my opinion, I’m open to being wrong and having a discussion.
Yeah that's a good point. You're right that LFG/Fireteam finder wouldn't be the optimal solution, however I think the big problem with Dual Destiny was that you were forced to play duo. Trials you still have the option to play solo (which most of the community does) but if you want to play with lets say 1 friend, then LFGing a 3rd, while inconvenient, is still a better alternative than the current proposed system making solos play vs 3 stacks imo. I personally don't think the population would just opt for solo, especially with all the incentives they give for playing trio and the fact that a lot of people just want to play with their friends, but we don't have the data to make that conclusion. I respect your opinion man, thanks for sharing!
@ yeah that’s a fair point as well, maybe on ur next stream you could do a discussion as u play, would be cool to pick ur brain with different scenarios.
Titan void super needs to get nerfed too like playing iron banner you have a couple of them on a team and the rest of the team picking up the axes after already getting killed by the damn super and you can’t even break the axes. Overall the changes are good though I don’t really care about anything besides brining more players into trials and the game in general. Always enjoyed flawless pool as a solo player cause yeah the games are a sweat fest and your not going to farm your kd but everyone in the lobby is generally higher skill so the enemy team is good but your teammates are as well. My kd is like 1.4 but I only ever play comp and trials and like 90 percent on flawed cards to just grind adepts where as if I reset my card all the time it’s like 2.5 - 3 but no one cares about your kd anyway except you so who gives a shit about that.
Yeah titan void super tracking is just ridiculous given how much value u get out of the super. I see your point on the generally higher elo lobbies, however I think being a solo vs 3 stacks is too much of a handicap to make up in addition to the SBMM.
I agree that duo should be removed and ESPECIALLY agree about the loss forgiveness bullshit. No one gives a fuck about loss forgiveness lol ill just go and win my next 10 games in a row its not about the loss, its a waste of my time to play and its boring.
finally! the only youtuber who talks abt this issue. duo has to go. loot is not a good enough incentive for a normal trials plyr. i want to have fun. 3 stack was the most fun i used to have in trials. but since they made duo , 3 stack trails became pain because of low population. i just play solo now and manage to go flawless easy every weekend and i have all the loot, but it's not as fun. 3 stack is the most fun playing with friends but low population has made 3 stack no fun. duo has to go.
Totally agree with your comment about map rotation, every time I play I start with a good map like Endless, then boom cathedral and disjunction back to back and I’m done
I have wanted to pair the bzr with fighting lion for FOREVER
Now I can lol! That built in "enhanced hipfire grip" is so nice! It's a midrange pulse that can also be used up close. Literally fills my role as a all-rounder gun forblion
Agreed I think it’ll play very well with lion
To ur conspiracy theory on map weighting, I wonder if there’s something with a match ending, quickly exiting the game and starting a new match (fast approach)vs staying in queue and waiting for a new match (slow approach) for getting different maps in rotation
Interesting, I always start a new match immediately when the game ends so I'll take that into consideration next time I'm playing.
Still wish the time investment for grinding adept weapons was better like closer to a harder gm
You have one of the most relevant perspectives on this because you are easily in the top 3 of pvp in d2
hey mate thanks for the perspective i love watching the fighting lion kills, i never thought about those issues i'm not the biggest trials player but love your insight
I find your opinions on the game to be very grounded and balanced, with a clear intention to avoid hyperbole. I enjoy your content.
If you ever happen to match me in Trials, take off Fighting Lion and equip Alethonym.
😂
Absolutely not lol, but thanks for the comment :)
Ability cooldown nerfs will not only reduce ability spam, but also will hurt unpopular abilities and subclasses. Sunbreaker feels bad and will be even worse. Strand warlock is in the same boat
Yep not a very graceful change, but in the grand scheme of things it probably still is a net positive imo
Nah it’s better. More gun skill 🤝
@@bennievennievichie What do you think about subclasses with less than 2% usage? I really loved to play Sunbreaker before, it was fun...
@@Sol_Unshadowed I don’t think Strand warlock deserves mentioned in the same breath as Sunbreaker. I’ve seen that class used to great effect with Eye of Another world
@froseph3970 yeah, I understand
As a solo player, I haven't really gotten into trials that much, and while the update isn't perfect, I'll definitely be playing more now
This is a change that is 100% overdue, you cannot verify the integrity of trials because on PC there are so many cheaters it’s not worth it, now you bring incentive to play the mode
Hey, an epic video as always-it’s great to hear your thoughts on stuff like this. I wanted to share something I commented on a similar video about issues in Crucible, but I think it’s worth repeating here:
First and foremost, the ability cooldown nerf shows that Bungie either doesn’t know how to balance abilities in the current sandbox or that it’s just not a priority. The real issue with most abilities isn’t cooldown-it’s potency. This blanket nerf isn’t going to shift the meta much, and it’s hard to see how it’ll make the sandbox more balanced.
1. Scorch: It’s fine as is, but the regen delay after being scorched needs to be reduced. You should start regenerating health sooner-something like the catalyst on Tommy’s Matchbook-so you can actually get back in the fight.
2. Smokes: Smokes shouldn’t weaken, slow, and blind. It’s ridiculous that they do all three. This needs to be toned down or reworked entirely in PvP.
3. Gun Balance: Guns shouldn’t hit like commercial-grade fridges. The aim assist on things like pulses (e.g., Iggy, Rose, Kvhostov, Legato) makes them way too easy to use. Unless you play aggressively like the gameplay here, you’re going to lose more often than you should.
4. Controller Nerf Needed: Aim assist is necessary, but let’s be real-a good controller player with a $200+ controller feels like they’re running aimbot. If you’re on M&K, you’re almost guaranteed to lose unless you have top-tier aim or manage to catch them off guard.
5. Ammo Meter: The current setup is a mess. Fusions and shotguns dominate because players can charge or ape into guaranteed trades. If you’re not using these weapons, you’re at a disadvantage. I can’t count how many Trials matches I’ve lost where my deaths were only to fusions or slug shotguns, and Trials Report shows those players didn’t get a single primary kill yet still top-fragged. These weapons need toning down, but the root problem is that giving 1-shot kill potential to all 3 players at the start of every round (plus extra ammo boxes) is terrible design. Bringing back the ammo meter would help balance things. Snipers and trace rifles would need adjustments (e.g., less flinch or faster ammo regen), but those could be worked out.
6. Melee Lunge/Double Melee: This is the biggest issue. There’s no reason an unpowered melee should deal half your health. If someone punches you first and you don’t have a special, you’re done (especially against Titans). The damage is ridiculous, and with players slingshotting around, it’s nearly impossible to counter. Knockout makes this even worse-I’ve been slug-shotgun-KO-punched from 12+ meters more times than I can count, and the bad netcode just amplifies the problem. Melees should be supplemental damage (like in Overwatch or Marvel Rivals), not a deciding factor. Nerfing melee range and tightening hit registration (e.g., within a radius and specific angle) would not only make melee more consistent but also make close-range primary combat viable again.
There are obviously other outliers, like Arc Slide, Knockout, and Diamond Lance, but I wanted to focus on general sandbox issues rather than nitpicking every ability.
Sorry for the long comment, Honestly, I might toss this into the official forums (if Bungie even reads those). I say all this because I love the game and want to see it succeed, but the current sandbox is just bad. It’s sad to watch.
Great video though you’re the goat
Hey man thanks for taking the time to lay out your thoughts, as a fellow MnK player who shares a lot of your opinions I think it's important to note that the biggest problem with controllers is the fact that aim assist stacks with frame rate. This means on console the aim assist is fairly well balanced and it really is only on those new gen consoles and PC where you really see people abusing 360hz and fps. It's a tough issue to solve, but as you say it's definitely a problem.
When it comes to abilities I agree with some of what you said and disagree with others. I think we can both agree that the special weapon and ability status quo needs significant reworking.
Thanks again thanks for sharing your opinion!
Thnx for the video.
I agree with you completely. Trials basically a no-go for me because I am not good enough to consistently go flawless in the current system; it's a time sink. Getting ANY 7 wins makes it much more approachable for me and I assume the population will increase.
The guys from my clan are like "this is the worst possible thing Bungie could have done for the game" although basically none of them play Trials. Their argument being that Trials is supposed to be for the elite and it's fine to play 50 games without getting adept loot because you're not good enough.
I am genuinely looking forward to the changes.
Even though I don’t play anymore this was a real good thing to granted all the negative I’ve been hearing. Good video!
Out of all the other content creators, this vid was the one i was most hoping for.
I'm what I would consider a low skill to very-low skill solo player. I was on board until they started talking about incentivizing people playing in a fire team. I don't want to use lfg and yet I feel like I'm going to be punished for being bad and being solo. But finding a non toxic group when you're low skill is nigh on impossible.
The remainder of the update seems like enough to get me playing in the pool more often.
Yeah I feel like the solution I offered making trials 3s or solos only would remove the need to incentivize playing 3 stack. As a solo player I agree its frustrating seeing 3s get more loot for the same/less effort.
Unfortunately, I won’t be attempting the new trials revamp. Too discouraged from years of anxiety and depression. I’ve never attempted trials, and I’ve been here since curse of Osiris. It’s simply too late to start now, and I don’t have any motivation to start playing it.
Hey man thanks for leaving your opinion, as there are a lot of players out there who feel the exact same as you. If you dont mind me asking, can you see anything that would bring you into giving the gamemode a try? I ask this because people like you are the ones Bungie really need to target with future Trials changes and any feedback you could offer may be invaluable.
Honestly bro with that mindset ur never gonna go flawless. I used to be in the lower skill bracket but after many matches attempted I really improved and now I’m 2300 elo and have almost 200 flawlesses mainly solo queue.
If anything these new changes are gonna make it more forgiving for a more casual player like you. Give it a shot and try to improve. Cammy cakes has some great guides for newer trials players that will help you succeed. I’m not even that skilled but with a bit of teamplay and learning the maps you will go flawless
@@ChoklittRockett I’ve already made my choice. I can’t bring myself into trials.
@@Epicdefender758 No, honestly. I don’t see anything getting me into the playlist.
i feel that, map weighting feels unchanged, i play exclusively solo due to nobody on my friends list still playing the game, but yes i feel im still getting crap maps more than not, agree with you completely, bring special back and let ppl enjoy the game, instead of primary teamshot meta
this is the take i was waiting for
The amount of trials weekends i win 5 in a row as a solo against solos only to then get games with duos and lose because my duo is absolutely garbage pissed me off so im glad i wont pay because 2 guys want an easy carry
At least if you get matched w a duo you get loss forgiveness, so it's not a waste of time imo. You're right though it can be really rough.
Won’t 3 stacks just also abuse the whole if the whole team goes flawless they end up in the performance pool by just having someone not go flawless or just swapping someone out or even resetting again to stay in the easier pool.
Yep I think so...
At the end of the day great breakdown of the changes Epic and have always loved watching your gameplay and playstyle. Even tried it myself when you could feasibly use double gls just took a lot of getting used too so I envy the skill 😅🫡
2 stacks is definitely a bad idea.
I agree that duo should just be gone. However, that weekly performance based match making is already there when you play on a 7 win card in the present game (once it's flawed at least). And I've tried hard to test it and I don't think I've noticed a difference. Especially in solos. They also did mention that it will flip to open skill if you don't find a match quickly. I'm just not sure the matchmaking will be that bad
I hope you’re right!
@ it’s maybe worth a mention I’m on console? I know PC can be a different beast entirely. They very quietly snuck the verbiage onto the flawed cards a while back. So as long as they’re using that same matchmaking preference, I’m hopeful it’s negligible and is really there to protect the “practice pool” sort of player base
I have no fucking chance at winning against a trio, can't wait. Freelance or maybe bungie could move to a 3v3 one of each even type of system. Force trios. Loss forgiveness is cool, but damn it feels bad playing unwinnable games.
Yeah I think it really comes down to an issue of fairness. I think the thing that people like the most about solo que is the games are generally the most fair out of all the Trials gamemodes. Yeah you might get bad players on ur team but that bit of RNG is equal for both teams and over multiple games usually balances out.
This new system is just gonna fuck solo players, and I really don't see why they're so stubborn with allowing 2 stacks to play at the expense of the majority of players.
They probably won’t do just solos and just trios because most of the population would just opt to solo thus making trio’s an eventual sweat feast that no one plays. Fireteam finder and LFG won’t solve this, just look at Duel destiny and all the push back that got. Just my opinion, I’m open to being wrong and having a discussion.
Yeah that's a good point. You're right that LFG/Fireteam finder wouldn't be the optimal solution, however I think the big problem with Dual Destiny was that you were forced to play duo. Trials you still have the option to play solo (which most of the community does) but if you want to play with lets say 1 friend, then LFGing a 3rd, while inconvenient, is still a better alternative than the current proposed system making solos play vs 3 stacks imo.
I personally don't think the population would just opt for solo, especially with all the incentives they give for playing trio and the fact that a lot of people just want to play with their friends, but we don't have the data to make that conclusion.
I respect your opinion man, thanks for sharing!
@ yeah that’s a fair point as well, maybe on ur next stream you could do a discussion as u play, would be cool to pick ur brain with different scenarios.
The discord mods gotten duo queue with their kittens or they riot in the forums
A least you’re not saying “imma quit” like the other are crying for … respect !
Losing in trials is so bad. I loss is about 15 rep. It takes 1,000 rep for one rank. One rank = 1 engram. Do the math
Titan void super needs to get nerfed too like playing iron banner you have a couple of them on a team and the rest of the team picking up the axes after already getting killed by the damn super and you can’t even break the axes. Overall the changes are good though I don’t really care about anything besides brining more players into trials and the game in general. Always enjoyed flawless pool as a solo player cause yeah the games are a sweat fest and your not going to farm your kd but everyone in the lobby is generally higher skill so the enemy team is good but your teammates are as well. My kd is like 1.4 but I only ever play comp and trials and like 90 percent on flawed cards to just grind adepts where as if I reset my card all the time it’s like 2.5 - 3 but no one cares about your kd anyway except you so who gives a shit about that.
Yeah titan void super tracking is just ridiculous given how much value u get out of the super. I see your point on the generally higher elo lobbies, however I think being a solo vs 3 stacks is too much of a handicap to make up in addition to the SBMM.
honestly diamond lance shouldn't freeze, only slow with 50 stacks.
Yeah but honestly man we got a diamond lance nerf at the end of the day I thought we'd be waiting forever for a change let's be happy lol
I agree that duo should be removed and ESPECIALLY agree about the loss forgiveness bullshit. No one gives a fuck about loss forgiveness lol ill just go and win my next 10 games in a row its not about the loss, its a waste of my time to play and its boring.