Toolgrinding: (Re)Grinding a chamfer endmill
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- Опубликовано: 24 окт 2019
- Showing how to regrind a chamfer endmill on the dbit grinder and how to create a new chamfer endmill from scratch using the t&c grinder and the dbit grinder
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gtwr.de/
Instagram:
/ stefan_gtwr
#practitioner_of_the_mechanical_arts 
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first.
You can't DO that
i bet you haven't even watched the video yet!
About 50 times. Already sick of it ;)
Hey now, easy on there, even TOT has not thought of circumventing his viewers with such panache. Consider me suitably impressed.
Well done Mr, Gotteswinter! Well done.
Not sure what this says about me, but if I'm watching television while glancing at the tablet (Bad, I know); whenever is see a new video thumbnail featuring Stefan, TOT or Clickspring, I immediately pause the TV and watch the video. Don't recall ever having regretted it either.
Anything from those gentlemen is better than anything thing on the boob tide. Even if it's just a wall with paint drying 🙄
@@mpetersen6 Then you'd probably want to go over to Keith Appleton's channel. Model Steam Engines and such. Occasionally does painting and watching it dry! 😉😉 Still better than most anything on TV!
So I am not the only one doing this.
That through-the-glasses shot at 6:54 truly is a new paradigm in cinematography.
It was, frankly, spectacular.
Thats the beginning of my exploitation film career.
I already had my glasses on and that just made me queasy
If you’re not an expert on the cutter-grinder, I don’t know who is. Great video as always Stefan.
Somebody who knows what he is doing ;) Like most people who grind for a living.
@@StefanGotteswinter But you also do grind for a living. And unlike them, you also are the one who is actually gonna use the tools that you ground, so you have insight and feedback they don't.
Although, they probably have automated tool testing, and if they need to know if 10.5° relief is better than 10.4° they can just make a thousand of each and chamfer through a cubic mile of steel.
When I was a stupid (in the estimation of some journeymen, not me of course, I KNEW everything) apprentice I did not have any chamfering tools yet. So I decided to make my own out of an oil hard steel (L6). Of course the journeyman i was assigned to, "those will never work, because blah, blah, blah. Well they did and I used them for a longggggg time. Remember boys and girls when an expert tells you something won't work, they're usually right. But when an "expert" (ie a know it all aka Norm from Cheers) tells you something wo t work he's often wrong. So don't be afraid to try something off the wall. If it works that's great. If it doesnt, well thats good too. Because you learned something. And this doesnt apply to just machining. But life in general.
No one ever wrote any books about someone playing it safe, and you never see a statue of a critic, And you never see a hurse with a Uhual behind it.
So there!
never get tired of your explanations.. Thanks..
Stefan I always learn something new watching your videos thank you for taking the time to make them
Always enjoy your videos Stephan. Learn something new every time. Your the best. Thanks for sharing.
Most excellent video Stefan! Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge..
Great video, thank you! Every time I see a d-bit grinder I like them more. Robin’s video on the mods he did on his is really epic. I hope to have one one day.
Ausgeseichnet! Vielan Dank. I always learn something from your videos, Stefan. Please keep up the great work.
Good video, very interesting issue about measuring the clearance. As always, I learned something important watching your channel.
Thanks
Stefan, as always a very informative, good video. Thanks!
It's good to see people using the proper torque specifications
Hope you can keep 'grinding' out videos, always looking forward to the next one!
Thanks for the video. Excellent. I like your method of aligning the flutes of the tool on the D-bit grinder. This has been an issue for me every time i use mine for something like this.
I love your D bit Deckle videos
Another informative video Stefan.
Thanks Stefan👍Very good video.
Great stuff! Your videos are wonderful!
Thanks for the video! You and Robin Renzetti make me want a D-bit grinder so badly...
Hi Stefan
Thanks for sharing, I bought a small Astra tool and cutter grinder and will try your methods!
Thanks again
Regards from JHB
Just got a d bit grinder last week already love it thanks for the vids there great 🤓😎
Excellent teaching videos!
16:48 "click"
Stefan has torque calibrated wrists, and I'm not even surprised.
With a Canadian accent and everything.
click!
9:04 - great bit of camera work there, well done!
Awesome as usual.
Very nice to see your Chinese Deckel knock-off again in action! I remember the video in which you where modifying this tool.
Excellent video. I learned a great deal
verry usefull information,
Thanks Stefan,
even from the netherlands :)
7:50 Gotta love Shinwa measuring tools. Excellent quality for an excellent price.
Thanks Stefan - I learnt something!
G’day Stefan, yes I did learn something and had a chuckle at your misfortune, OW!
Cheers
Peter
Ace show that was special 👍👏
what works, works. if we kept with traditional ways to do stuff all the time we would probably still be trying to go around on square wheels !!!!!! Great video.
nice work! enjoyed.
Thanks Stefan!
Would love to see a build video soon. A tool build. The videos like the squareness comparator type videos I find the most useful (to me), since I can’t find a tool grinder or d-bit grinder within 200 km of here... I enjoy building tools and gathering ideas from videos like that (I built your squareness comparator. I’m using it currently in the gargantuan task of rescraping my whole lathe back in....
200 km isn't very far, esp to find a took you are going to buy one time. I drive 72 km to school and another 72 km home everyday. That's almost your 200 km.
Unfortunately toolbuilds for myself pay worse than customer work ;)
Nice work,,i have a big snapped off drill bit that's going to get treatment...I don't have a tool grinder but I'll find a way to do it on the little horizontal mill made into a make shift surface grinder.
Lol damn Stefan yo were Johny on the spot at that first. Very nice rework of the chamfers, keep them in service as long as possible or make special cutters for a job.
I really like the “hightech“ pointing tool, make a video on making this please. 😎
Well, I do have a Blum laser laying around, just have to install it!
just a thank you well done
Very nicely done! I am going to have to invest in a tool and cutter grinder so I can play with this stuff too.
Or a surface grinder ;)
Enjoyed Stefan!
ATB, Robin
Thanks Robin!
Very nice Stefan. Something I would like to do.
like the tin foil idea stefan top man
Stefan nice grinding work ill send over some of mine for sharpening 😁
I would LOVE to see how to sharpen endmills on a vertical mill!
There is probably no way I get out this story, right? ;)
Oh my... I was being sincere. If it was a mis-speak I apologize..
@@FredMiller Jo Pi did one that I just watched. Don’t know the date, but look at his if you are still wondering
I changed my K O Lee 6 x 18 to cable drive. It is so much better. No more growling from the rack and pinion gear .
The aluminium foil collet protrctor is excellent.
As an apprentice toolmaker I was taught how to use our clarkson tool and cutter grinder. I have one of my own and still use it to sharpen,make and modify my own cutters. It has saved me so much money. Chipped carbide cutters are worth next to nothing as scrap and I collect a lot of them from machine shops. This gives me a lot of really nice cutters for little more than some time. Cutting your own tools essential for anybody keen on saving lots of money in their own machine shop. Cutting rounded tip cutters takes some skill but well worth mastering. Have you tried it?
Last time I got my scrap carbide to the recycling place, it was about 300Eur ;)
I can do rounded (Full/partial/offsenter) radius tools on the dbit grinder. I need that occasional for lathe tooling.
Nice , the tin foil is a good tip . Cheers .
Thanks for the video and the clear and easy to follow instructions. Have you tried your cutters to de-bur drilled holes? I have posted a couple of RUclips videos of my T and C experiences however they pale compared to yours.
I think I’ve seen an older guy using a diamond cutting disc to get closer onto the center...
Maybe give that a shot.
Whoohoo!!!!!
Stefan, with regards to you setting the cutter on the red grinder and using a scale, you already have a setting gauge BUILT IN. It is the flat bar that is set into the collet block, it is fixed to a pin that is in a reamed hole that is on centerline with the indexer.You just have it sitting there in front of you, READ your Instruction manual. You can raise it up to any height ( within reason ) to suit your cutter. If it is not mentioned because of the Chinese conversion language, then Google the genuine Deckel SO 1. I know that using it will give you the vertical location, so just index 90 degrees or whatever to orientated it to horizontal. When you find out what it does, you will kick yourself for not using it, instead of machining the indexer and sodding about with a scale.
I know about the setting gage and I know how to use it. And I know how bad it is to be used on multiflute tools.
Personal note: I generaly asume the other person knows more than myself and has already thoroughly tought about what he is doing.
@@StefanGotteswinter
Translated the personal note goes like this "shut up moron i know what i am doing, who the hell are you to try and tell me something".
Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounds?
Thank you, very good video.Can you show me how to sharpen an end mill?
Hey Stefan, have you ever tried to make the chamfer tools with variable or differential pitch? Would that have any benefit, specially on bigger cutters?
hope the knee isn't bruised. Thanks for the video as well :)
Stefan, could you do a video on cutting helical gears?
Is it possible to redress a diamond cup wheel that is worn to a dished shape to run flat on it's side again? What should be used for this purpose, diamond nib? Or some other material?
I regrind carbide tools for a living and I’ve seen the same style of tool made 10 different ways whether it be Guhring or Walter, every company has their twist on things
A great grinding video Stefan. You should title them grinding adventures with Stefan.... Um not.
When you first reached in with the hook at the end, I thought you might have lost your index finger and replaced the joint with a collet.
You could grind a flat on the point a known distance from the theoretical intersection....say 1mm ...then adjust your CNC tool setting accordingly.
Yep, thats true 👍
👌
Hi would you say that a shop vac is good enough on a tool grinder? I have a small shop 14ft by 14 ft. I am 70 and new at this
Stefan, thank you for this very interesting video. Every time I watch one of your videos I learn something new (even if I've already seen it ;). I wish I had a better grinder than a _cheap_ bench grinder!
On another topic, have you (or Robin, if he's reading these comments) ever measured the accuracy of an edge finder? The type that kicks off to the side when it contacts the edge? G. H. Thomas wrote (in his "The Model Engineers Workshop Manual") about measuring a .0005-inch (0.0127-mm) error in his edge finder. I'm now curious about how much inaccuracy is really there and wonder how (little?/much?) that affects the work done by Precision Machinists.
Thanks!
The normal edge finders are crazy accurate and repeatable - I find them accurate beyond 0,01mm (total and repeating) - Proven on a darn accurate cnc machine with linear scales.
@@StefanGotteswinter That's good to hear. I've also wondered how good they were, and suspected that I might be losing precision there.
I get really anal when I'm indicating on my little CNC mill. Clean and deburr everything, do the final steps in 0.0001" increments, then back off and check a second time.
Since 0.01mm is approximately 0.0004-inches, then I guess Machinists working to extremely "tight" dimensions & tolerances must use some other device to locate the "true" edge of a part? Of course, you _did_ say "accurate beyond 0,01mm (total and repeating)," so they are obviously "better than" 0.0004-in. That's certainly closer than I can work with the machinery & "skills" that I have, at least for now. I hope to be able to spend more time in my workshop before too long and improve my skills.
Hey Stefan
Nice and informative video as always👍 Would it better if the dividing head was set in a 30ish angle, to get the tip also?.. Just wondering🤔
The angle of the head doesn't matter if you don't have a square corner angle on your wheel.
Does not change much - Only the flute gehts larger/longer. And you get into terrible clearance issues with the wheel.
I am trying to think how you would sharpen the tool on a mill. Do you think it could be done on the lathe?
_Could_ it be? Yes. Practically? No.
the real question is, how do you cut the flutes using the single lip grinder now? lol. Pretty cool video and looks like an easy way to make a nice countersink, lol.
On a dbit grinder you can make a single-flute cutter :)
Could you clarify this: Could I accomplish everything in this video with just the tool & cutter grinder, or do I need both machines? I know the tool & cutter grinder is more flexible and capable, but does that also mean it’s a total PITA to use for more common tasks done on the D-bit grinder?
A full t&c grinder can anything and more than a dbit grinder, but its way more setup work. So if I can, I use the dbit grinder for almost everything possible and the t&c grinder only for specialised setups.
I don't know much about this stuff. How does a production tool grinder maintain the corners of their wheels, when grinding a bunch of these? Seems like it would be a pretty significant issue??
They will rough them in, to the point Stefan did, then use a wheel with a sharp corner to cut that last little bit. Then when it wears they can use it as the roughing wheel. You can also dress the wheel and bring back the sharp corner, but you lose a lot of the abrasive material when you do that. That's why Stefan didn't do it, but they probably would in a production shop. Since the finishing wheel is only cutting a little bit, it can be dressed relatively easily.
14:27
Can anyone clarify what he means by "indicator" as opposed to "dial test indicator"? Is he referring to a plunger style indicator? I can't find anything that's just called an "indicator".
Thanks!
With the point on those chamfer mills, could you also centre pop/drill with it or will the geometry not allow it?
Kinda - they dont have a good centercutting-ability and also tend to chatter. I want to play with them a bit more for centerdrilling.
I have an idea for orienting the cutter in the grinder more easily. Instead of using a scale or eyeballing it, why not make a bar that's 55.5 mm long with a magnet on one end so you can stick it to the flat you machined. Then you can just rotate the cutter until the flute touches the bar. Should be quicker, less fiddly, and more precise.
That's basically what he said at 6:57
Hi Stefan, at 10:20 there is a leaver thing just below the collet, I have yet to figure out what that is for? Just touched up my cutters thanks!!
That finger is to align single flute cutters/d bits vertical to the spindle of the dividing head. Needed for grinding and regrinding the radial relief on them.
Tried it and that eliminates using a ruler to set an end mill horizontal! Set the dial for 90, line it up then rotate to zero... Thanks for the tip!!!!
I guess you could make teeth with unequal angular spacing to reduce the chatter. Though it may be annoying to regrind.
Just noticed at 22:00 the chunk missing out of the diamond wheel. Now that must have been sickening when that happened.
I liked that intentional head placement, makes the while video alot more personal...real... not like the scripted stuff from tony, adam and others. Keep it real!!!
Different people, different styles of presentation :)
It actually amazes how Adam does an informative 4 minute talking intro in a single take while driving a car.
@@gatekeeper84 See... clearly with a crew of 30 people behind him making sure everything looks authentic as possible and in reality he is sitting in a car in a studio!!!
If you cut the end off a party balloon they also work very well in the way you've used the tin/aluminium foil ....🙂
Or one of those nasty unlubed condoms that are like bigger powdered finger cots. My dad used to put them on my RC car, to cover the speed control wipers, and it wasn't till I got a bit older did I know what they were.
Andrew Delashaw preferably a new one.....
"OW!" ~ Stefan Gotteswinter, 2019
Stefan: Tool and cutter grinder vs. surface grinder? I have no space for both in my workshop and I will not grind big parts. Like surface grinding capacity of 200mmx100mm would be enough but I need to do OD and ID grinding. Would it be possible to mount a magnetic chuck on a tool grinder and do small surface grinding? I really would appreciate your input. Thank you for your wounderfull videos!
If I could only have one, it would be a surface grinder. Or a very substancial tool/cutter grinder.
But most t&c grinders are not good at surfacegrinding, while a surface grinder can do most other tasks with a bit of creativity very well.
@@StefanGotteswinter Thank you very much! So now I only have to find one which fits through my door (90cm) without to much disassembly and is in a decent enough condition.....
27:09 - Captain Hook, is that you?
Arrr!
SamEEE12 Captain Hook has a Mini-Me, like all arch-villains do.
SG: thanks for providing videos that make me (have to) think... ~~grin
I hope there is a useful answer to this without requiring much more than the
Bench grinder, stones, files that I already have... at a 'scrapyard' recently,
they had a large bin of twist-drill-bits, taps, Center-drills, Counter Sinks... etc
from some large shop's waste collection... I got 6-8 pounds( 16 oz Av)
thinking I could perfect(start?) a hand-sharpening skill...
Specifically, can a center-drill be "touched up", improved or sharpened
to provide a more useful tool-bit ? Am I limited to reShaping the very end-tip ?
Any ideas, anyone... thanks 'ToyFJ40'
Which books do you read when you are not using the proven trial and error method?
Don't you get a lot of oil mixed with metal dust running down the shank and under the aluminium (tin) foil into the collet? Perhaps some masking tape to seal the protective sheath?
Better than without. But I still throw all the tooling in the ultrasonic afterwards to get it clean.
@@StefanGotteswinter Of course. That'll do the trick! Just thought you wouldn't want to have that grime on the inside of everything.
If I had to do way more grinding, I would do something like you described, maybe even machine/3d print a cover to go over the end of the colletchuck.
*click* Now that is a proper torque indicator ;-)
Let's hope, he engaged the safety squints beforehand. :oP
Frisco Rose
Ave surfaces again
I usually start off sharpening my drill bits but I always end up making very sharp punches.....
So basically I'm a pro at this stuff.
Call me if you need advice...
😂😂😂
Awesome video as always💪👌
Btw, with these grinding wheel adaptors can you run the wheel both direction, or does your t&c cutter have a left threaded spindle?
Yes, they can run in both directions - The washer between the wheel and nut is keyed to the adaptor and the adaptor itself sits on a selflocking taper.
@@StefanGotteswinter Thank you, I thought it to work the same way. I'll have to make a bunch of them
More great content so 3 beers from me.(large ones)
Prost!
@@StefanGotteswinter Very hot here so I am just reaching for #4.Cheers.
In order to cut closer to the center, I've seen a 4 flute chamfer mill that takes 2 opposing flutes to the center and I believe used a small gash on the other two flutes to prevent them from getting in the way at the tip. This means the 2 opposing flutes can be cut slightly past the center of the tool to avoid having to use a perfectly sharp grinding wheel. This seemed like a good compromise to keep the advantages of the 4 flute but keep the ability to cut chamfers into very sharp corners. Perhaps something to give a try?
Edit: Here's one.. twitter.com/HarveyTool/status/1172526713164783617
twitter.com/HarveyTool/status/1172526713164783617
Make yourself a 55.5 distance spacer gauge
24:10
Mr Gotteswinter, re 24:10 where you exclaim ow was that in German or English?
I have never considered until know whether ow was a multilingual exclamation.
24:10
ruclips.net/video/yT-Juqgq8z8/видео.html
Edit to the above garbled question: I should have asked, did you exclaim ow in German or English?
7:20 55.52 > 55.5
close enough ;)
I just relistened - I said: "its 55,5 too"
@@StefanGotteswinter oh, really?
20 below
459
V-Bitte?
V-Mann?
V-So?