What YouTubers Aren’t Telling You About Citizen’s New “Grand Seiko Killer” - Zenshin Forza Review
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
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In this Citizen Zenshin review video, I take a look at the most hyped Citizen watches of all time. This includes the Citizen Zenshin Automatic Mechanical, the Citizen Forza Eco Drive, and the Citizen Zenshin Super Titanium Chrono. At the end of the video, I also scratch test the Duratect Super Titanium chronograph, to solve the mystery of this lightweight material's scratch resistance. The codenames of the three watches reviewed are NJ080-80M, CA4610-85Z, and AW0130-85X, respectively; these are the turquoise light blue, salmon, and green versions.
⌚ Links to watches featured in this video:
Links to Citizen (USA):
Forza Three Hander Green AW0130-85X ➡ fave.co/3zDbYu3
Forza Automatic ➡ fave.co/4eqqlBn
Forza Chrono Salmon CA4610-85Z ➡ fave.co/4eUPPHI
Full Forza Range ➡ fave.co/4cUbJZJ
Links to Amazon (All Countries):
Zenshin Automatic Turquoise ➡ geni.us/ForzaZ...
Zenshin Three Hander Solar Blue ➡ geni.us/ForzaZ...
Zenshin Chrono White ➡ geni.us/ForzaZ...
Links to House of Watches (UK):
Forza Automatic ➡ tidd.ly/3YfVEZW
Forza Three Hander ➡ tidd.ly/4eQt5rs
Forza Chrono Salmon ➡ tidd.ly/3XSzKfC
Full Range ➡ tidd.ly/4dFSbsf
Links to First Class Watches (UK):
Automatic ➡ www.dpbolvw.ne...
Eco-Drive Three Hander ➡ www.anrdoezrs....
Eco-Drive Chrono ➡ www.kqzyfj.com...
Full Range ➡ www.anrdoezrs....
These watches were purchased with my own money.
The above links are affiliate links.
-
✋🏻 Wrist size ➡ 6¼ inches / 16cm
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#watch #watches #citizenwatch
🚨 Disclosures
I use affiliate links when linking products in the video description. Ben's Watch Club is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. We also utilize affiliate programs with other retailers. Unless stated otherwise, assume product links are affiliated.
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Just admit it Ben, you hate Citizen................cause they make them too big for your wrist..............LOL!!
That's the fact
He can't deny
The tiny wrist gang is definitely more vocal against large watches than the large wrist gang against small watches. I think there is a fundamental insecurity at play.
Exactly. As good as he is in some aspect of his reviews, he is extremely biased and doesn't seem to understand that just because a watch is too big for him, it doesn't mean that it is a bad watch. I don't like big watches myself, but not every watch over 36mm is bad just because you have tiny wrists. Not to mention that he is more than a little hypocritical - he was not nearly as critical of the size of Kore Excursion as he is of some smaller watches that, to him, are terrible because they are "too big", yet the Excursion's 44mm diameter was not a huge issue, because he liked the strap (or was it because he got some kind of compensation for reviewing it?)
@@ptrm7815 can't argue with you but i too think citizen makes their watches bigger than what they need to be - and i have average-big wrists. big dials, a lot of empty space, with boring designs. i'd like to love citizen as solar watches suit me best but i've never been able to buy a citizen.
@@susrev88I’m curious. What size is your wrist?
Have been loving in the loupe's newsletter and channel for quite a while, glad to see you giving it a proper shout out
I think you're my favorite watch reviewer on this site. Sometimes it feels a bit like watch RUclipsrs all watch each others videos and end up having the same opinion. Your channel doesn't and that's the best compliment I can give.
Sub'd. Interesting deep dive into Citizen and the peculiar/illegal claims of titanium. Reminds me a bit of the old razor commercials where they claimed 5 blades are better than 4. It was absurd then and this is absurd now.
You should review some of the smaller diameter Citizen watches, most of the good ones are JDM but easy ordering from Japan. The 38 mm NB1050 is the best 400 dollar watch new in the entire market in my opinion. Citizen also recently released a 36.5 mm eco drive BM8180 for about 120 dollar that looks great :)
Sweet dong ho
I have that 36.5mm , love it for my thin wrist
Great job Ben! I'd reviewed the same watch and I think I just saw myself on one of your thumbnails about the other reviewers :) I wasn't sure about the scratch performance and since I didn't have the tools to test I'd clearly mentioned my doubts.. Good job.. As far as I see my concerns were right :( .. Great helpful video.. even for other reviewers :)
Ben's the watch reviewer we needed, not the one we deserve
You’re way too harsh on the chrono. For anyone with a normal size wrist, it’s a fantastic fit! You have to see these in person to appreciate how good they actually are!!!
Leave his girlie wrists out of it... 😂
Great no BS review. Please keep this up
Fantastic research, testing, and reporting! Thank you for figuring out this nomenclature mess and calling citizen out. Hopefully this info will get out there.
absolutely agree on the styling until recently.......
I love an Eco-Drive, I want another Eco-Drive, Eco-Drive was my first big watch purchase.....however I don't want to buy a watch over 40mm as I much prefer a 38mm watch. 39.5 ain't bad but I'm not an integrated bracelet person.
Also appreciate the deep dive on super titanium Ben.
Yeah.. Seen them in person and not a fan of the aircraft carrier look on my wrist lol. Still a fan of the watch by itself and cheers to anyone who fits with it well i.e. bigger/wider wrists.
I would love to see videos speaking about the watches featured in “In the Loupe”
Good work. Great information to know since i expect most manufacturers will start to produce new titanium case ranges.
I noticed the size when it was placed next to a PRX. Design is better IMO but it's bigger.
I got myself the chrono, it's my first citizen, and I am seriously impressed!
And no I am not a professional eater.
Ben, thought you might like to know, I've just bought a Casio A159W GEA-1VT that Zeus (Jeff Goldblum) wears in Kaos, and i bloody love it.
Godly ostentatious at its finest.
Warning, they are now being sought after and prices are rising. 👍❤
Sounds like perfect size watches in my opinion 😊
I know they are a lot more expensive but it looks like they save the top tier coating for their "the citizen" and "citizen chronomaster" range. These are absolutely exceptional, the platinum coating means they dont even look like titanium and the finish is on par with Grand Seiko (which I also own). I tried on the Forzas as well and they felt a bit cheap and rattly to me. Love the level of detail you go into and respect for not just going along with the marketing nonsense!
Ben, I don't know about the UK, but the US version of Citizen&s site offers free band sizing.... Just give them your wrist size and they'll size it for you. Personally I like the sizes of their watches, smaller sizes (like 36mm) tend to get swallowed by ky wrist. This is, in fact, the only issue I have with the Casio Lineage watches.
As for tge Super Titanium: I agree, they should have the grade of Duratect used listed as part of the product specs.
thanks for the review mate, after watching I'm glad that I went with Tsuyosa small second (still loving it after 4 months)
Great review/consumer advice. I went off Citizen some time ago having bought two mid-range eco-drive watches on the assumption that their power longevity claims were somewhat based on reality, Perhaps for residents of the Sahara they are, but not for us in northerly latitudes. Less useful than an auto in winter since they're invariably flat and need two days on a windowsill to make ready. Keep up the great work popping those bubbles of BS.
Citizen are good i have one ! Titanium for 300 bucks!
Was choosing over this & the Fujitsubo. Chose the Fugitsubo. Knew titanium wouldn’t be scratch resistant, but love the lightweight feel. That & there’s actual lume, 200m water resistance & functional dial.
Love your videos and that you always take your time to really dive into matters and inform other watch nerds. Thank you for this well-done video!
I was interested in the different grades of Super Titanium™️ and it seems like one of the few lines that uses the alpha version (according to Citizen, the best coating) is the "The Citizen" line of watches. So you maybe they're getting away with their language by conflating a coating on $4k watches with the titanium coating on $400 watches.
Still better channel than the MWC.😊
I like your videos more than those from watch RUclipsrs who could be mistaken for AliExpress salesmen. Keep up the good work!
Just happens I have the Zenshin mechanical in light blue. Over all I enjoy it, wish they did use the 9000 movement, better lume and a real clasp with more micro adjustments. Signed up for your forum “In the Loupe”
Like your thoughts on these. Luckily I'm a bigger guy so really want to try out the chrono. I'm fairly optimistic it'll fit, but haven't had chance to get it on wrist yet.
That dial being considered close to GS quality is nonsense. The closest Citizen has got to Grand Seiko level dial quality wasn't this it was with the NB3020 with the Silver Foil Lacquered dial. For the price that's an amazing dial, but even it isn't on Grand Seiko's level.
GS is in a totally different league.
I'd be curious to compare their "The Citizen" or Eco-drive One lines with GS, but I haven't seen them in person to be sure
@@speedracer2pleaseI would compare them to GS quartz entry. GS is above Citizen in terms of finish and detail. That said, Citizen is a great value but comparing the two is like comparing Hersheys with Gourmet chocolate.
it's like saying that a 20 year old seiko 5 watch is a rolex killer. also, everyone is always super nice about a watch, everybody likes everything all the time - not authentic imho.
I own a Grand Seiko and picked up a "the Citizen" AQ4100-14L a few months back for a bargain. This range (and the Citizen Chronomaster) is definitely comparable to GS, the finishing is absolutely exceptional and the platinum coating means that its a lot brighter than most titanium watches. Definitely worth checking out
I guess the last watch you presented only has solar cells under this black outer ring of the dial and I doubt this will produce enough energy.These kind of "sand paper" dials have already been used by Spinnaker and other brands in the past. But it is a nice looking watch.
18:58 they are almost all paid shills, best way to view them is to mute audio. Some are not even good for that because of excessive color grading.
Big-ish wrister here. 43 mm sounds great to me. Those tiny 40 mm and smaller models just don'tt look right ;)
Isn't it time for integrated bracelets to die off again?
Or are AP, Patek, and Tissot still the benchmark that brands are chasing?
Great detective work mate. I dunno what it is with Citizen for me. They're "nice" pieces but there's just sommat that stops me buying one. I'd rather pay extra for a Seiko even though it probably won't perform as well as some Citizen models.
Agree with you Ben, the 3 hander is the best looking. But still a no go for me since the seconds hand doesn't hit the markers...
Yeah, that would drive me loopy!
Yup i have the CA7090-87X and it's my favorite. But, my goodness does super titanium get scratches.
Great video and very good conclusions. I don't care personally about scratches, but reviewers should definitely refrain from spreading marketing nonsense to their viewers. The only worse reviews are probably sponsored ones 🙈
Have to agree about Citizen marketing being confusing and often overpromising. I think part of that is due to how differently they treat the JDM vs Western market (and while their Japan exclusive models are sometimes more appealing, they aren’t without flaws and give you the hassles of importing and little to no support or warranty coverage). In my direct experience, only Duratect coated STEEL models (e.g. AQ4000) or Duratect alpha titanium (top $$$$ JDM models) are noticeably more scratch resistant than 316L.
The one model I’m more curious about and that stands out to me is the NB1050, which seems to be a well-made watch with a solid movement and good finishing for the price (what I would look at if something like a GS was out of the price range I was considering), instead of the current trend where searching “Grand Seiko killer” gets you a clickbaity list of options with pretty/textured dials but generic or compromised specs.
Really like the dial of the 3 hander, but I'm not too much into the shape of the watch
Always love your videos! I like your chill vibe!
Thank you so much 🤗
I hate tiffany blue. There, I said it.
I've never seen a Tiff watch that looked good.
@@anathwhatever It doesn't look good with any outfit either in my opinion.
Got the orange fumé promaster at 0:54 swapped the swap to leather, even got some compliments on it
As a tiny wrist owner (14,6 cm circumference) wish they made smaller sizes for men/unisex .
Edit: yeah that Zenshin Forza is way too big for your wrist.
Big fan of Citizen but mainly 70s stuff which this reminds me of. I’ve repaired their chrono’s, many of their movements some of which are quite complex. I’ve now also explored their run on using Bulova Accutron movements in their Hisonic range and GX.
I see your review Ben and enjoying you talk about them and showing off the nice 70s cases and then at 7:40 you kill me…. Miyota !
I’ve nothing against Miyota even the 8000. They are a price point movement that are easy to work on but from factory are appalling with oil in weird places.
But why are Citizen using their cheap Miyota brand . I think for a $300-400 watch it should at least me a full factory Citizen movement surely?
Do they even make their own?
I’m m so stuck in the vintage world I don’t even know.
WHOA, I had no idea how bulky it would be based on the spec sheet, I don't think I could pull that off. I thought it looked like a small, neat dress watch.
All that scratchability sucks too. I know scratches are bound to happen, but I'd be paranoid about that all day.
I wouldn't necessarily be paranoid about the scratches, it still performs comparably to steel, but yeah it's also bigger than I expected
If you have a 7 inch wrist or bigger, size is not an issue.
@@MikeSmith-er1qs I do not, unfortunately
Why is on youtube every watch a "killer" of another watch. I am sure there is enough room for many watches to co-exist. I hate that stupid term.
All about viewing figures. I would guess the "killers" strap line will do better than a "lovely dial" strap line
Thanks you for calling out the Super Titanium BS and the lazy online reviewers.
Never had the slightest issue with QC with any Citizen. They have a lot of nice designs as well. Ok some are questionable maybe. But that’s the same with most manufacturers. Don’t understand the indifference to citizen from some enthusiasts. Of course, to each their own. But I think they are far better than the seemingly more popular Orient brand, which I don’t rate.
This man single handedly killed all demand for "super titanium" scam watches
He really didnt. Great watches.
I have it on my wrist, its a killer watch. I put on one of my g-shocks or duros when I do manual labor like a sensible human being. People have some weird expectations.
@@FINsoininen Using "killer" as a compliment shows what kind of a person you are. Your opinion is invalid.
@@1vbAPiYk thats the most re*arded thing I have heard in a while.
I’m wearing 32mm thermocompensated quartz Certina watches made for women rather than my radio-sync Citizen 40mm watches. They’re so comfortable and give a sort of World War One vibe with their smallness.
I sold my yellow Tsuyosa and one reason was the cheap clasp. I plan to buy another Citizen once they got the clasp right and it's still looking cheap.
Since when a dial with a "plywood" texture should be considered luxury??? The standard must be rock bottom when this becomes the main selling point.
Is the outer black ring the solar cell on the smaller one?
Possibly, yeah. However they manage it, they have done a fantastic job on that front
@@BensWatchClub I bought my wife a citizen tank solar watch and to this day I have no idea how it gets its power. It doesn't seem possible for enough light to get in.
niche advantages, unless you have metal allergies... like myself... I have a nickel allergy and as such have moved to wearing Ti watches as they do not contain nickel unlike stainless steel.
Lol, the king of click-bait calls out “click bait” 😉 Just teasing, I love your channel 😅
Is that a R.A.T. mouse!? 😮😮😮 Those had so much potential. RIP.
When I see watches in this range labeled as “GS killers” it makes me wonder how many GSs have the reviewers really handled and worn long-term.
How can you get your voice this high? The Bee Gees have a couple of vacancies if you're interested!
Bought a "duratec" titanium watch some time ago. The clasp was all scratches after a week in the office. Granted I use mouse with non dominant hand but I was just gently sliding it on the plastic desk. I still like the watch but the whole "duratec" thing is just a total BS.
Where do you sell the scratched off watches, asking for a friend......
I get tired of tiny wrist reviewers bashing things based on size. We get it, your options are limited, but it doesn't make things bad.
+-20 seconds a day from the Miyota movement… and I kvetch about the +-15 seconds a month that Citizen claims when their radio-sync watches can’t receive a suitable radio station for a time signal. Maybe I should just get time from my cellphone…
love your vids man. Constructive critic: I dont think the current profil picture send out what your channel is about, i really wish you used smth else!
This review is another example why Ben is one of the best watch reviewers - honest all the way through and not just joining the hype. Thank you for all the work and honesty you put into your videos! Cheers!
Not really. A truly good watch reviewer can look past things that don't fit them personally and give objective comments. Guys like him constantly bash anything over 40mm.
i would love to see a 36mm but jp won't xd :/
Think, citizen says stronger than steel... But which one ? 340?, 316? They do not say ... So they are probably right
I don't get the critique of the online watch media outlets. I just looked at all 6 of the major ones and every single one has a micro brand review on their main page. Creating problems out of nothing...again?
Yeah, then just check the stamped butterfly.
This is honestly fraudulent. This is the first I'm hearing about the Super Titanium situation, and that is a travesty that watch journalists and RUclipsrs have not been discussing this. Citizen isn't some random AliExpress brand, they're a serious, long-time, legacy hard-hitter. They literally own Miyota. If it were an AliExpress brand doing this, they'd be rightfully called out.
People don't care about scratches. They buy silver and silver it 3 on Mohs scale, it's basically shit.
I've had automatic tiffany dial but I've traded it for Zelos swordfish field watch and I didn't make a mistake for sure!
If they made a 34mm or 35mm I’d be all over it. Might settle for a 36. Not everyone has larger wrists.
Good work on the titanium coating nonsense. Regulation enforcement is the only thing that protects consumers from corporations!
Stalin has spoken.
@@shj2000 Erm... what? You're pro false advertising?
I can't stand tiny mens watches. Watch under 38mm for an adult dude is like a baby watch. 41-42 is standard size. Abive is oversize. Diesel is compensator size. That's why I don't like Rolex with theor 36mm sizes and considering 38mm standard. That's just for wimps.
Are you broken? 😅
Not Ben putting his own sponsor WatchCrunch on blast!
noooooooo just no.
Too many reviewers with baby wrists.
Horrible design !!
I have bigger beef with watch RUclipsrs and sapphire crystals. It's always made out to be the superior option yet they casually ignore how awful they often are in sunlight. If you're watching this video, chances are you are an enthusiast and you care for your watches more than the average person which means mineral crystals will provide you decent scratch resistance for far superior legibility and readability.
Reputable watch reviewers usually do mention AR coating and often make shots under the sunlight. Also Idk what do you mean by "decent scratch resistance", but in my experience nasty deep scratches on mineral crystals are almost inevitable, especially if the crystal is not recessed.
@@НапримерПетрСмирнов And yet reputable reviewers continue to champion sapphire as the crux of most value proposition arguments. Seiko is one brand that gets the brunt of the "no sapphire = bad watch" arguments for continuing to rely on their Hardlex up and down their lineup when their true value arguments lie elsewhere (lackadaisical approach to QC, poor bracelets, weak water resistance). Don't get me wrong, I like sapphire and its many advantages but for the person who cares enough to watch a video like these, chances are that you care for your watch better than the average watchbuyer meaning sapphire may not always be the better choice if so many come at the cost of general readability.
@@B00F13 same here. also, not all sapphire are created equal. while they don't scratch, they can shatter as they're more rigid than hardles or mineral crystal. what is an advantage in one situation, can be a disadvantage in another.
furthermore, youtubers want killer specs in every price segment. killer lume for a dress watch, like in this case. of course, you want good lume on a diver. people don't seem to be able to take a watch for what it is.