While I do enjoy a good love triangle, they mostly annoy me when the end game is obvious. When a second love interest is put in place for tension but you know the protagonist will never end up with them.
My brother told me this was his exact reason for not liking season 2 of the Love, Chunibyo, and Other Delusions anime. Yuta's already with Rikka. The childhood friend "magical devil girl" doesn't have a chance. Even when she revealed her feelings, when one of the other characters asked Yuta what he was going to do about it, he told her something along the lines of, "what am I _supposed to_ do about it? It's _her_ problem."
@@ChaosRayZero This is 2 years and is just a long ant about a manga. In the manga Nisekoi (anime ruined that part) long after we established the main girls, the younger sister of one of them appears. Essentially the MC Raku likes Onodera Kosaki. However, he has to pretend date another girl, Chitoge, because he is an heir to a Yakuza family(Japanese mafia), and she is the daughter of a mafia boss, previously in the USA but now in Japan, to stop the fighting between their families. It was arranged by their fathers. There were 2 more girls but they were obviously not going to win, it was always between the Chitoge(a tsundere, constantly mean to Raku without reason but secretly likes him) and Kosaki(actually likes Raku but is to shy to say anything). But then we get introduced to Kosaki's 1 year younger sister, Haru. She literally became the main character for a lot of chapters, and had her own things going on outside the Raku drama. But Haru hated him in the beginning because she belivied he is part of the Yakuza and constantly is surrounded by girls despite having a girlfriend. She acted like Chitoge. But then she actually spent time with him and realised they had a lot of things in common, she found out about the dating ruse, and how nice he is. Seriously, one time she and her sister were sick, and their mother couldn't take care of them, so he spent the entire day tending to both them, constantly checking on each of them (as they were in separate rooms, and he wasn't even in his house). Then she started liking Raku as well. He, on the other was much more himself around Haru, as she was one of the only people he could talk about his interests with. They even had the same misfortune of ending up in weird situations. As well as befriending the people who are usually alone. They were perfect for each other as she was the perfect mix between Chitoge, Kosaki and Raku. However, because Kosaki liked him first, and Haru is a good sister, she decided to get those two together and put her feelings aside. And it was just so painful to watch/read, as you could obviously see how much it hurt her everytime one her plans worked. And I gave up on the manga because I couldn't read a love story between 3 people, when the right choice isn't even part of the love triangle.
I agree with that, it should actually be unclear who the girl is going to choose(because it’s almost always a girl in the middle). They should both bring different pros and cons to the relationship, and each should have a different relationship with her so we really don’t know who’s going to win her affections in the end. It also should be realistic and the person in the middles choice should be based on who she truly does love and we shouldn’t know it going in. Otherwise it’s just frustrating to watch a person in the middle playing games with the extra person to create forced tension.
I always get in trouble with love triangles for shipping the wrong couple. I find safety, loyalty, dependability, best friend-ness attractive, and it rarely works out for me. But my biggest complaint besides personal taste has to be how much of a jerk the person in the middle has to be to the two choices. Like you said, they really both ought to just leave for somebody new on tinder.
To be honest, I think this Trope has evolved to be more of a Love "V" rather than a love triangle because it's the girl/guy choosing between two potential partners and therefore there is an empty space at the "bottom". There is no continuation of the cycle outside of the interest in the protagonist. I think the only story I have ever read with a real Love Triangle was Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night". *SPOILERS* (but really now) The Duke is in love with Olivia, who is in love with Viola (dressed as a man), who is in love with the Duke. The triangle has all sides as compared to, for example, the "Hunger Games". The protagonist is into both partner options but the two potential partners have no connection of "love" to complete the triangle . (Sorry for the long post. I wanted to get this off my chest.)
The love "V" is a love triangle, as least by current standards, though I get what you're saying. I think we'll see a shift in that too now with LGBTQ members included in more stories. I don't think it's a problem though, it's just the term that they use for it!
The only love triangle I've seen is from the Legend of Korra, it starts of as a V like you said. Korra likes Mako but Mako has a girlfriend named Asami. Eventually Mako broke up turned to Korra. But then THEY broke up and after a few seasons of development of Korra's and Asami's relationship they ended up together in the end.
the thing about love triangles is that the protag always drags them both on, stringing them along and not picking either until the last minute. someone always has to get hurt. it's sad and unrealistic.
ah I know, but it seems this is the trend in YA and it just makes me sad. i just wanna see a good, functional triangle. i think i'm salty because i just read matched... and girl i wanted to strangle the protag.
Love triangles should only be accepted if: °it ends in a polygamous relationship °the person A person B and C are fighting for ends up with someone else °person B and C fall in love with each other and forget A °Honestly have B and C both leave A because, is it really THAT hard to pick one?
Trice That's the problem since it's so rarely done well and half the time is only added to create drama and often shows characters at their worst. It's more of an excuse for two "hot" (often white)guys fight over the main girl to create ship wars.
I’ve been a part of a real life love triangle and oh my god it’s bullshit. Waiting on someone to pick you is toxic, leading two people on and not making a decision is toxic, the animosity between to the two people people waiting to be chosen is toxic. I already hated this trope but having gone through it in real life I realize truly how toxic it is and also that I needed to see a therapist lol
For me, one of the most aggravating cliches regarding love triangles are when the characters are "in love" with both the love interests. Also, in so many of these books, when it is seems impossible for a girl and boy to actually just be platonic friends unless one of them is interested in the opposite gender.
I agree, love triangles used well can enhance a story, the ones that don't can tear a story to pieces. There's a series I'm reading that went from having the love triangle side by side or in the background of the story to putting it front and center. The story immediately took a back seat to the love triangle, developed simplistic writing and threw a 'romance' moment in multiple scenes per chapter for no reason. This move was clearly from fan pressure because her second book got lowballed on Goodreads with people complaining there was not enough romance and the girl not choosing right away. They're in the middle of a secret war but damn it to hell if a girl had other priorities. Even one of the guys had other priorities. But in the third book suddenly both are so focused on the girl and she's all romance flustered. Ugh, I'm glad the series has reached the final book this year. I don't want to see the writing go down any further. For the love of God writers, believe in your story and keep up the quality no matter the cries from the peanut gallery. If you want to include more romance, do so logically at least. Anyway, great video.
Like all tropes, I believe this can be done well, but not the way modern YA books do it. The Night Circus did this well, just like it did everything well. How? There are two girls who could be potential love interests for this guy, but the back cover tells us which one he'll end up with. He never really loved the first girl, but she didn't realize that he'd moved on until he told her. When he does, she tears apart a charm in anger and frustration, which causes a tragedy. No angsty choosing between girls, no fighting between said girls, no time spent on this love triangle at all, but it still affects the plot. It doesn't really fall into any of these types. It can barely be called a love triangle, he just kisses one girl at the beginning and falls for the other one fifty pages later, and yet it still affects the plot! What's frustrating about YA love triangles is how they're used to create sexual tension, rather than as plot devices. There's so much angsty "oh no, which one should I choose?" and there usually is an obvious correct choice. It just seems incredibly annoying and unnecessary.
I am working on a story that has a love triangle. It's about a boy who is attracted to his friend and having a hard time keeping his feelings to himself. He's sure she doesn't feel the same way and doesn't want to screw up their friendship, so he decides to pursue a girl in school who he knows doesn't like him because it's a good distraction. But the girl he's pursuing ends up developing feelings for him. His friend discourages him from getting involved with her and he figures that it must be because she likes him... but really she's in love with the girl. They had a fling during the summer, which the girl called off because she wanted something real and broke the friends heart by implying that what they had wasn't. It's kinda complicated and has a bittersweet ending.
The Hunger Games wasn't that bad of an example, imo. Yes, the love triangle is cliche, but so much of the story was devoted to the ptsd and such the characters have to go through that it's still enjoyable. Katniss is a real person with real struggles, which kept it from being crap like Twilight.
I didn't think it was that bad, but I also didn't think it needed to be a love triangle. Gale didn't really add much to it romantically. I feel like if they were platonically friends it almost would've been better.
In defense of Katniss: There is never any hint that she has any real interest in Gale, she knew him for all her live and never approached him in a romantic way whatsoever. It's obvious from moment one that Gale is like a brother to her or a friend. She can trust him with no matter what, like taking care of her sister but she never shows any physical affection towards him, he was never in the game as a love interest. It makes no sense that such a secondary character with little to no character depth or plot development is to be considered a love interest to Katniss - especially taking into account that she never made any romantic approach towards Gale prior to volunteering as tribute- so of cause he doesn't become a love interest when she is in a new environment completely separated from him- you don't all of the sudden fall in love with people that aren't around. And Peta isn't a love interest for the first book or movie and a half too, she acts as if she loves him, it's a tool to survive and she thinks that Peta also just uses the aspect as a tool. The romance between these two is really driven by hardship, loss and emotional events they experience and go through together. Katniss might as well have not ended up with Peta and it would work with her character. And that concludes the reason why it's always painful to me when people say there is a love triangle in the Hunger Games when they clearly just want there to be one because the actor of Gale was casted as a hot dude. Gale was friendzoned from the very beginning.
I think the love triangule is just weak, since it is obvious she and Gale wouldn't work as couple after the game. But I understand this drama was functional make things worse to her and complicate she explorer her feelings for Peeta.
I think the movie played into the triangle far more than the book (for the first film/book). In the book it’s made pretty clear that Gale is older brother material. Katniss doesn’t necessarily love Peeta either, but they are together for a large chunk of the games and by playing romance (ie kissing cuddling etc) they get more gifts and supplies they need. At first the book makes it clear she isn’t a fan of this setup but by the end I felt that their romantic relationship had started. That Katniss tried romance (something she never saw a point to) found she actually enjoyed parts of it and then might be willing to continue on with it later. It at the very least opened her up to the idea of a romance with Peeta. Gale gets… none of this 😂 in fact you forget he exists for most of the book. She isn’t pining after him and only thinks of him in terms of him hunting for food for Prim.
I think love triangles are also similar to knives in that if an entire character or more revolve around them it’s kinda creepy. I think you kind either need to keep them as only a subplot and/or explore/subvert them
I personally hate what love triangles have become since because in the way it's currently being used it usually ends up basically just being cheating and that's not something I find remotely romantic or moral but there have been exceptions. An example that I find works best for me can be seen in many of Meg Cabot's teen books. The times it works for me is when the girls are genuinely in love with two different guys without being in a relationship with either at the same time (no cheating) and Meg Cabot also handled most of her love triangles with a certain amount of care and flair that - I'm sorry to say - I think most books now adays lack simply because they want to up the stakes so much that the humanity of it all is sacrificed for the sake of more angst.
I would like to see a love triangle story that does something unexpected like having the girl realize that she doesn’t love either of the guys that are trying win her affections because she realizes that she is a lesbian and she falls in love with her female best friend or have the two guys in the love triangle realize that they are in love with each other instead of the girl they had been trying to win the affections of.
Definitely, or even just realize that she's okay being single! Because of audience's expectations, there's a lot that authors can play around with that isn't being touched.
Jordan Harvey I am cool with that too, girls need to have more stories to show that there is nothing wrong with staying single. I have no problem with romance, but it should be the most important thing in the story.
Some people might pick up my book when it’s published and be like “oh three mcs? A girl and two guys? LOVE TRIANGLE” THINK AGAIN! The girl is basically a sister to one of them and hardly knows the other, and doesn’t find him attractive in any way really. Plus, the boys are kinda maybe falling for eachother. TROPE SLAYED Also really well made video good job
Great video! You made some awesome points! :) I admit that I still enjoy "good" or well-thought out love triangles (I guess they're my guilty pleasure haha) but I totally see why people can't stand them. I myself can't stand the generic love triangles with bland characters, especially the main character that "just can't seem to decide" and leads both parties on. Glad you're back! Looking forward to more videos :)
Jennifer Krigbaum Thanks so much for the comment! There are definitely some love triangles that I adore, but I find recently we've been swamped with generic love triangles that are hard to get through.
Great video :) I never even thought about the MC choosing which world she wants to be apart of or which part of herself that she wants to explore :O Really great points! The love triangles I hate are when the MC is as powerless to her emotions as a trash bag blowing in the wind. Each guy blows her in a different direction, and she has no backbone, no integrity, she's a passive and empty-feeling type of character (as you mentioned). Or maybe she's stringing people along without a care for their feelings, and yet we're supposed to root for her. She lacks insight into her own actions which often leads her to being petty and jealous when one of her love interests is hanging around with other girls even though she's doing the same thing. The love triangle takes up all of her time and energy and she doesn't have friends or other interests. She doesn't have time to be passionate about other things. Also, she is so inwardly focused, in constant turmoil and angsty over her love triangle the whole world seems unfair to her but rally she's got a bad case of first world problems. I often just want her to give up both guys, realize maybe neither are right for her if she honestly can't choose between them and take a gap year. Go backpacking around the world or something and discover herself. Idk that's what I'd do :D I understand that the MC is a teenager so we shouldn't be too harsh on her for lacking insight, but she's still insufferable to read about and there are so many MCs who follow this formulaic character arc so it irritates me so much.
Ok so here are my exceptions with love triangles: 1. When the story revolves around the trope (and even then, it has to be done well) 2. When the love triangle is more like a love chain (when person A likes person B, but person B likes person C, but person C likes person A) 3. Or when one person who is in a relationship with someone, but then later falls in love with someone else
The only love triangles I really love is Tess/Jem/Will from the Infernal Devices bc even if it's not canon we know that Jem and Will's love was more than a friendly one, they were more than best friends.
Because for girls the most important thing for us is to find True Love and become good wives and mothers. It's not a good story with a female protagonist unless it's about her love life!!!!!! (This is a joke comment I don't actually think that please don't kill me)
entertain7us14 - Because for some reason, it's imagined that all guys will pine and pine after a girl, no matter how difficult she is or how long she takes to be with him, or how often she flip-flops between saying "I love you" and "...but not as much as him", but two girls could never do that (because they're too busy falling in love with everyone that's hot and not good for them to be the ones focusing on a single guy for an entire book).
Wonderful quality content! The additional clips gave it a very education feel, which you and your videos really provide for your audience. You can tell how much research you've done, especially when you're pulling love triangles from classic films (something I don't think many would have actually added). Well done, Jordan! I think it was also an interesting point you've made about how realistic romance has kind of dwindled IRL, making it more of a commodity (i.e. dating apps) rather than an actually connection with another or multiple human beings in a more organic setting (Note: I'm definitely not against online dating, etc.). I think how we treat romance in real life may have something to do with why we find love triangles intriguing in fiction, but also irritating when we translate it to our modern/contemporary times. And I agree with you; as much as I generally dislike the trope, many of these love triangles I actually enjoy reading and watching. I'm rambling now, but I also enjoyed how you mentioned the bland female protagonist as a self-insert. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with self-insert fiction, but I think it raises questions about the fabled Mary Sue trope and its (or her) connection with love triangles and self-insert type protagonists. Annnyways, great content as usual! I hope you had a wonderful time volunteering and it's good to have you back! :)
Thank you so much!! I think a lot of people are liking the clips, so I'll definitely include that in future videos. I think you're right in that we are intrigued by what we don't have, so our interest in fiction is piqued, but we also need a plausible story and setting for it to have impact and be enjoyed!
Just found your channel, and somehow you've become one of my favorite booktubers already! Probably something about how you tackle tropes, review books, and your way you voice your opinions on current YA is unique and genuinely interesting to watch/listen to. I look forward to more content from you :D!
Theres noting wrong with love triangles it just how young adults wright them. Thats why I love the "change of heart" love triangle trope. How many people actually get with their first love? its more relatable when they dont.
"But you GUYs' can SElF INSERT, right?" I am ashamed at how quickly my mind turned that into something as gravely over-done and usually poorly executed puns- still had a guilty giggle though. I have been binge watching your channel and have really loved the content so far though! The quality in recent ones is quite impressive and keep doin' what you are!
I just marathoned your videos, glanced down, and my jaw hit the floor. _only 3k subscribers?_ My Gods! Your channel has such high quality and your videos are top notch and informative, not to mention entertaining! I'm even part of your notification squad from now on because, girl, you just might be my favorite booktuber! ❤
I know I'm a little late here, but my biggest problem with modern love triangles is they're all the same. One person who has to choose between two potential partners. Doesn't help much that far too often they're both equally dull. But there's so much more you can do with a love triangle. You can have a committed couple, with a third person trying to break them up because they want one of them. You can have person A in love with person B, who doesn't return their feelings, while person C is in love with A, who doesn't even know C exists because they're hung up on B. So much potential, and all we get is dull girl can't choose between two equally dull guys.
The only love triangle that I like is the love triangle from the infernal devices (Tessa, will, jem) tbh it was the only love triangle that was not cliche and it was the first time I was in suspense of who will the MC choose as her endgame but people have their own opinions and if you didn't like the mortal instruments READ the infernal devices you're gonna love it FROM: a huge Cassandra Clare fan
Most love triangles want to make the protagonist seem so amazing when in reality its just selfish. "I love them both equally!".....Really?! I won't fight for someone who isn't willing to fight for me....
I don't like love triangles because either: *1.* All three are completely flat and boring and I can't seem to get invested in them. *2.* One of the love interests isn't really a love interest and is more of someone the main character is usually being pushed/is thought to already to be with by *LITERALLY* everyone else (including the one they *TRULY* love) and is also the kind of person you just want to punch in the face. *3.* The two we're supposed to want to see get together turn out to be even *BIGGER* jerks than the so-called antagonist. *4.* When the end pairing is so obvious *BECAUSE* the writers/creators made the third party of the so called "love triangle" so detestable that it really isn't a question of will they/won't they anymore. And finally: *5.* When the two people "fighting" over the main character actually have *MORE* chemistry with *EACH OTHER* than with the person they're fighting over; making the fans think that said "suitors" (for lack of a better word/term) would be better as a couple themselves than the person they're fighting over.
My fav love triangle, hands down, is Jem, Tessa, and Will from The Infernal Devices :DI’m sure a lot ppl say this, but still. They all love each other so much, it’s beautiful T^T and the ending resolved it perfectly (I like to think that in another universe they are in a polyamorus relationship. My friends and I just call it a love trio instead since each one of them loves the other two). Tbh I hate typical love triangles so much I’ll put down a book immediately if it gets obnoxious haha.
Jordan Harvey Exactly! It's either that or the author goes for the "underdog" in an attempt to surprise the readers... It's never really a surprise though.
The problem with Love triangles is that they're handled poorly and, like you said, tend to feature a dull female lead that makes you want the male leads to end up together. A love triangle that I actually liked a lot was the one in the Korean drama Strong Woman Do BongSoon (or strong girl bong soon on netflix) in which the love triangle is handled in a way that makes you be in favor of the one that eventually ends up with her, and her character subverts the Strong Female Lead trope in having her being very physically strong but having a very sweet personality, her character is very well constructed and goes through a very nice character development. The male leads are also very well written and go through a very good character development. In the end it didn't matter who she ended up with, because it was written in a way that you would have agreed anyways, it makes you root for both male leads at certain points and slowly develops the romance . I really reccomend it, it's one of the few Love triangles that had me doubting and that i really enjoyed. The main plot point was how she was in love with the first guy from the beginning, but developed romantic feelings for the second guy in such a natural way, because she was tired of waiting. The plot made so much sense and it all fell into place naturally.
I love this!! I completely agree, and that's a really interesting point about the female protagonist being a blank character due to needing to have multiple love interests - this has always annoyed me but I've never thought about it quite like that!
Great to see you posting videos again! Love triangles are an interesting one. I am reading "A Gathering of Shadows" (by V. E. Schwab) these days, which features a love triangle with characters that have actual personalities. She writes an interesting setup, as the individuals are not pining over each other, but attempting to deal with their emotions and desires. Each person has their set of advantages and flaws, and to me as a reader, it is hard to root for any one of them. I have yet to finish the book, though. It might go unresolved or somehow not turn into a loving relationship (as knives are involved).
Ooh V. E. Schwab has been on my radar for a while now, so I may have to check that out! Sounds intriguing and I've heard great things about their work.
The first book in the series (A Darker Shade of Magic) is one that I generally recommend these days. It features a very interesting world building and intense characters. I just couldn't put down the book. D:
As someone who has been caught in a love triangle it's literally the worst feeling. Reading about it is fun but no one comes out unscathed and it just sucks. The love triangle trope seriously needs to die
I don't know if you're into or know of the genre of this work, but White Album 2 is a definite example of a *dreaded* triangle, only probably it's more (far more I might add) emotionally draining than trite. No physical violence, though.
Usually I’m not one for love triangles, but I REALLY liked the love triangle in The School for Good and Evil Series by Soman Chainani. I’d really recommend this series if you haven’t read it, because it is absolutely fantastic. *Also, my comment will contain spoilers for it.* This triangle occurs between protagonists Sophie, Agatha, and side character Tedros. The love triangle was less of a “love” triangle, since it is mostly Sophie having to choose between her friend and her love interest. But the dynamic soon changes from Sophie having to choose into Tedros being the one who needs to choose between Sophie and Agatha. And even later, the character who has to choose becomes Agatha. The changing dynamic is really interesting and refreshing and I find that it doesn’t really sacrifice the characters’ personality, but develops it. Edit: the changing dynamic of the triangle keeps things interesting. The characters that compete are always changing instead of it always being one character whining, “Who should I choose???”
I mean, I “kind of” have a love triangle in the book I’m writing. But not really, it’s more like manipulation and selfishness, and I don’t really know if I can bear to not make the main couple get together but I think I just sacrifice it if I want to help make their relationship dynamic exactly as I want, and not as fudgey and cute as my mind desires. I’m not going to give it all away, but basically the protagonist is gay but (kind of) doesn’t know it and he has this admire/despise (Different from love and hate) relationship with his friend, but is also dating a girl who (kind of, but not really) “loves” him (but is basically just using sex to fill the meaningless void in her life) and I guess they’ve all got to work through their extremely selfish attitudes. It technically counts as a love triangle because... well, I don’t really want to give away all my plot points but it’s more of a complex character study than a romance novel, given that no one will end up together and it’s just about 4 friends working through their sexuality, religion, purpose, and “ideal” selves in order to become better people. So, yeah, love triangles suck.
There's a French movie (I still have to watch ) called "A trois on y va" which deals with three characters (two girls - we'll name them A and B cause I don't remember the names- and a guy - C) . A and C are married, while A is cheating on C with B, and C is cheating on A with B. And the three of them end up together. Before this movie (and another one called "Jules Et Jim") I thought the love triangle always had to be one character choosing between two other protagonists, but fortunately there are some movies where the main one doesn't have to choose:)
I think love triangles have massive potential, but they aren't really used in a creative way. I have an idea for a story that revolves around a love triangle, and I wanted to explore the protagonist's relationships with the men in her life, so it sort of turned into a love pentagon and not all the sides are romantic. Allow me to explain -- the MC is engaged to her best friend, the crown prince. She's been a friend of the royal family for years and their parents were delighted with the match, but neither her nor her friend feel that way about each other. She also has another friend who is like her adopted older brother. While the BF is outgoing and friendly and endlessly loyal despite her shenanigans, the brother is stern, quiet, and pushes her to become the best she can be. The two friends hate each other in the tradition of the two sides of a love triangle, but it's all platonic. There is also the BF's dad, the king, who MC respects as a father figure. She doesn't want to break off the engagement with BF because it would break the king's heart. The fifth player on this stage is the love interest, a charming young man of the lower nobility. BF is actually delighted that his unwilling fiance is interested in someone else, and he plays matchmaker. Meanwhile, the brother wants MC to become a warrior, like him, and the king wants MC to marry BF not only because it's a political match, but because he genuinely believes that MC and BF love one another and won't admit it. The story isn't really about romance, but about choices. MC must distinguish between what other people want and what she wants. She is pushed to consider what sort of life she wants to live, what kind of person she wants to be, and whether or not she can mend the relationships that could potentially be broken if she forges her own path. Also, I love the irony of a love triangle where one "competitor" is unwilling and tries to get the other two to hook up. And it would be really awkward for the willing love interest, because he's trying very hard not to flirt with someone else's fiance. Drama and shenanigans, but the good kind, where the reasons behind the drama are solid. I love a good love triangle -- emphasis on *good*
Ya know what? Yeah. I like Final Fantasy 4 - but Rosa was kind of an empty shell of a character, she didn't really have any kind of meaningful motivation, which made Cain's rivalry with Cecil awkward and weird, and it really did seem like Cain cared more about Cecil than he did about Rosa. Lydia was a more compelling character than Rosa anyway. If that isn't evidence enough, look at *every harem anime ever*
The Witcher Series (at least in the games, I haven't finished the books) had an interesting and unique way of handling love triangles. Geralt was torn between two women, one having passion and excitement to the point of self-destruction (and using magic to get whatever she wanted), and the other was kind and fought for what she thought was right. Both represented the sides he could become. And he had plenty of personality to grate against them both, lol.
Welcome back! Just wanted to say as a new subscriber I love the quality of videos you’re putting out, as you can clearly see the thought and research that goes into making your videos! For me one reason I hate love triangles is that they seem like a lazy way to give the main character “development”, and almost in a degrading way, as it’s almost always a woman choosing between two men. I find it much more compelling if some other force besides two men cause our character to undergo change, and I hate the fact that this change hinges on the question of “which guy will she choose” instead of something with a little more substance. However like you said, they can be done well from time to time, as any trope can! Also just curious, are you studying english in college / planning to study it in the future?
Thanks for the comment, you're so right! That definitely is a problem, and I think almost more so when the love triangle is added as a subplot, as it generally takes up most of the protagonists "downtime." I'm not studying english currently, I'm actually a photographer, but I've been looking into film school as it kind of merges photography with writing and storytelling!
Yes I'm actually an English student with a Film Studies minor! I think film school would be an excellent choice to combine your interests in the visual medium as well as storytelling :)
Nice metaphor. If you cut down a story into parts, it will be made of tropes. But if the knife is bad, the tropes and the story will have annoying parts that couldn't be cut well
Personally for me, I happen to only enjoy the love triangles with a clear winner between the two love interests, and when the loser happens to find another guy/girl that they realize is better (and they find them r e al l y quickly). I think that it Since it kind of shows that there is clear romance going on with the protagonist and the winner, it emulates a normal romance between two characters rather than three. And it’s always a great bonus when you see a character that you didn’t like at the beginning start to grow on you after meeting a new character that’s CLEARLY way better for them. Since I mainly specialize in webcomics, two examples I can give is a bl webcomic called 19 Days and a romance called The Lady and her Butler. In 19 Days, the black haired boi initially likes one of the characters in the main relationship, but after realizing he doesn’t have a chance since he dude he likes doesn’t like him romantically at all, he gives up and happens to take interest into a different character. At first he’s made to look like a savage and a cool dude, but with the new character, he shows a caring side that makes him a very charming and likeable character. In The Lady and her Butler, I don’t think it really classified as a love triangle, but it shows a good example of a character changing with a different relationship. When a guy asks the protagonist out, he gets shorted down immediately. He could’ve been really annoying to see as a character getting in the way of the main couples relationship but instead, he accepts it and meets a new girl that he likes romantically more pretty soon. We get more insight to his character which is useful if you want to form an opinion about him. Anyway, I think what it comes down to if the characters accepts the fact that they’re the loser, and if the loser improves with a new relationship (or maybe they realize being single is great), love triangles are actually b e a r a b l e. Just make sure there’s a clear winner, and that the loser doesn’t overstay his welcome. That’s just my opinion on the matter however and what my brain likes to see.
You don’t even know... I’m writing about myself right now, a small short book, because the events that took place in my life are unbelievable and just shocking. I’m in a love triangle and dude it suuucks. Like, it’s not fun whatsoever, especially if you have morals. So now I’m just worried that my own personal story would be taken as a dumb cliche idfk I’m scared.
For some reason, I only ever see it done in a way that is actually enjoyable in Shoujo manga. Before you call me a stupid weeb, I do read a lot more novels than mangas, and sadly, there are a lot more stupid love triangles in novels. In Shoujo manga, usually the female protagonist has a crush on one of them and not the other, which eliminates the whole "who do I choose" thing. The guy whom she doesn't like may or may not have confessed to her, but either way, he tries to forget her (bonus points for that) but he can't, so he watches from the sidelines. However, something bad likely happens between the protagonist and the other man in the love triangle, which allows the guy she rejected to intervene on the premise of the other man hurting her. Bonus points if the two ends of the love triangle are good friends and can actually talk it out like civilized people. Did I mention that they usually put the girl's own feelings first? Because they do and they respect her decisions, and overall it's very feels-good.
because most love triangles are really love bent lines. one character as the focal point, both others interested in them. it's hard to write a actual love triangle because it actually involves some stuff that makes some people uncomfortable.
The BEST love triangle was from Titanic, period. Simply because Cal turned into a jealous wreck, making him more of a complicated person. And then he tried to KILL the both of them.
your tan is so pretty! also, I hate love triangles. does anyone actually enjoy it? idk, i just think it's a cheesy way to make teenage girl wish-fulfillment...
I think the problem with love tringle today is that it is weritten to be this wish fullfilment tool and not a "plot importance" tool so it just stack in the story like a bone in our throut so I did write in my book the love tringle as I believe it should be- I have 2 males and 1 female and they both start off hating the female (for a really good reason and she desereved it 100%) one of them, Jay-den, had saved the female (Iay-La) a long time ago so she (comidecly) confess her undying love to him in their vary first talk, Phillip, his best friend (who had a crush on Jay, Pil is bi) is obviesly upset and hate the annoying brat vary much, but after Jay- den (like a reasnuble man) tells her "no" she just gives up and tries to help Phillip, funny enough, end up with Jay-den, they go though a lot and it makes the two boys get to know her better, and her to get to know them, but I made it as a tragic love tringle beacuse I had a messege to bring within the story, the more they know each other the more they understand that there isn't any shape or form for all of them to end up haappy in the end, and they just have to keep pretending eveything is fine beacuse the friendship and bond they made between the 3 of them is way too much to lose. I think people are so used to love tringles they forgot that in the core- it's a tragic ttol ment to tell a story of unrequaired love, a story of 2 or 3 people, despretly loving and caring for one another, but are stack in a loop beacuse they don't want to hurt the other.
Pretty much everything you said. The reason why I hate these so much in YA is that often times they aren't believable or done in an interesting way, along with the MC having the personality of a toaster oven. But if they're done in the past or done in an interesting way like having her choose neither or have the two people of the same gender end up together like what happened with Korrasami in LoK, I don't mind them as much. But that's not the case.
Yeah, I thought I just hated this trope, but the more I researched it, the more I realized that it wasn't always bad. It's only recently that it's been done extremely poorly.
I hated this trope until a love triangle drama/dilemma actually happened to me in real life. And it wasn't even when I was a teenager. I then discovered that contrary to what I always thought this trope has roots in real life and people can be confused about love. I can appreciate this trope then if the characters feelings are described well. Or if they have an actual reason to wonder about this, because in so many YA books they just fucking don't. Bella Swan's dilemma was ridiculous. Katniss Everdeen's dilemma made sense. I recently god a bit mad at my favourite author, Brandon Sanderson, because he foreshadowed a love triangle in Stormlight 2, but then, totally Brandon style he took that trope and turned it around into something creative in Stormlight 3. I won't go into detail, because EVERYBODY needs to read these books ;) But yeah, there was a bit of "they are so different and I don't know what I want to be" but it turned out fine.
So is your issue more with love triangles where the protagonist is the one making the choice? I mean I can't think of many examples off the top of my head where the protagonist is one of the suitors but I'm sure there must be at least a few out there. What are your thoughts on that sort of structure?
I can't think of any either, as generally it's more of a "the bachelor(ette)" type situation with many suitors competing for the affection of someone in a position of power, which can be done well, but most of the time is just trashy.
The movies on the background were amazing, and I really appreciate you giving us examples of what your talking about instead of just throwing info at us, it emphosizes it better. git gud. ~
My main problem with love triangles, is, that a v or triad relationship is never even brought up as a possible solution and that the main character is pressured to decide between two solutions - even though there are more. For once she could take neither of the guys, she might take both or something like that
To be honest, I am generally kinda annoyed, how so many fantasy/scifi worlds are still monogamic and heteronormativ. Especially the monogamic part, as I can think of quite a few fantasy cultures, where it just strikes me as odd.
I read this one book, where the main character was the granddaughter of Alice (In Wonderland). She had a boyfriend back in the mundane world, and a love interest in Wonderland. The love triangle was a side plot to the political battles of Wonderland, but it was still prevalent. In the end, she becomes immortal, marries the mundane man, fakes her deaths, and goes to Wonderland to be with the Wonderland man. This made me angry. I guess it was subversion of the trope, but I was annoyed , still. If I'm already sacrificing my dignity to read a love triangle, I want a choice.
Interesting video! I like that you mention that love triangles CAN be a good thing, but are annoying to a lot of people due to overuse, as it is in a lot of YA books today. I never thought of buttercup/humperdink/Wesley as a love triangle before... but it is. I love the princess bride book and movie, and that's definitely an example of a love triangle that doesn't bother me. As for your clip use, i liked it. For me it made it seem like your video was more like a video essay versus a vlog, at least visually. I also like the cut ins to your face when you say something funny, haha. I think music would make it even better -- there's probably a lot of stuff in the public domain you can use, like classical music if you're into that. I don't recommend the ukulele/bell track because at this point it has become a lil' overplayed. I think it would be a good idea to go for some music - so many free tracks out there. Even something subdued can help cancel out the static from your mic. The sound quantity is not the best, but I'm willing to live with it because your content is good. I'd rather watch something that doesn't have ridiculously expensive sound design, but had good ideas, than something with amazing sound quality that doesn't convey anything I particularly care about. So I'm willing to forgive the sound because I enjoy your content!! Liked this video. The glare on your glasses is distracting. I can forgive this as a) glasses help you see and b) that window gives nice lighting. BUT if this is any alternative to a glare free experience, I would personally recommend it. (Hope u don't think I'm a jerk -- if there is no solution or if you don't feel like listening to one random comment I'm not gonna be mad! U look cute but the shine is simply distracting to my walnut brain). Tropes are like knives -- TRUE I'd like to see some book recommendations from you! I saw the reviews you did for pierce brown's red Rising trilogy -- and I loved that series -- so I'm very much interested to see what else you like! I'll probably check out whatever books you enjoy from my library. If you haven't read any of her books yet, I recommend Louise Erdrich to you. She writes historical/contemporary fiction, some of it centering around Ojibwa native Americans. My favorites from her are Tracks and The Last Report of the Miracles of Little No Horse. I'm a Vonnegut fan as well and would like to see you talk about him if you like him too. My two favorites from him are probably Mother Night and God Bless You Mr Rosewater
Thank you so much for the long comment and the recommendations! I will have a favourites/book recommendation video up sometime soon (maybe next week or the week after) so keep an eye out for that! As far as the glasses, I'm so sorry!! I generally wear contacts but I couldn't yesterday, but it won't happen again (I'll go blind if I have to haha). As for the sound, it was especially bad yesterday, but I will be reinvesting the money that I get from this channel, so hopefully I'll have a better sound setup soon (if people don't get tired of me and the channel continues to grow)! Thanks again and I'll definitely look into Louise Erdrich :)
Hey! I uploaded a book recommendations video a few weeks back in case you didn't catch it, but are still interested. ruclips.net/video/o0zpLnDYEiA/видео.html
My favorite play on the trope is when the girl realizes she doesn't really like either of the two guys and the two guys realize that their obsession with each other does not stem from competition over the girl, but rather mutual attraction. If a book pulled this off I would def read it. Otherwise, this trope is generally poorly done and as others have commented, it's become a V in the last few decades which is strange. I feel like the reason tropes in YA are annoying is because they are usually not well understood and not implemented for an intellectual reason to serve as plot, but rather for wish fulfillment. Which, I get it, I do, but I feel like we need to be honest about what is just an entertaining fanfic and what is a thought-provoking novel. Not trying to pit these against one another and say one is good/useful and the other is not, just that they are different and expectations for them will be different. Anyways rant over.
I'm currently writing a story about two teenage girls who are best friends. One turns out to be a Changeling (half-fairy) and when they end up in the fairy world, they meet an Irish Water Horse called a Kelpie. Humans are food to him, but the Changeling is important to him for plot reasons. I have a love triangle that is not all romantic love, but a choice between platonic genuine friendship and a toxic lustful relationship built on techniques pimps often use to groom young girls. One is healthy and one is full of temptation and sex. Hint: she chooses poorly...and becomes a villain.
can you do a review of the cruel prince by holly black i just finished and not really sure how much i like it you're my favourite booktuber in the whole world!!!!!!!
"Unlike twilight"? I'm pretty sure it was glaringly obvious who Bella would choose... I'm not saying that because I'm Team Edward or anything, I prefer Jacob, but it seemed almost ridiculously obvious she saw Jacob as a younger brother figure and he was so far in the friend-zone that it was hard for me to read scenes where he flirted with Bella...
The only love triangle which I currently dislike is Kylo Ren (The bad unredemmed guy) vs Finn (A good guy whom truly cares for Rey beyond her origins and power) over Rey in the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. I was honestly feeling into FinnRey after TFA and have hopes that it becomes a reality since their chemistry is sweet & genuine from the start despite the rocky start. (I don't see Rey as just a "Love Interest at all btw). Since TLJ however, it almost seems that Reylo might come true with all the teasing and tension that almost takes me off the film. However after Rey literally shut the door at Kylo Ren near the end, I was thinking: "Finally!" After everything that happened to her from standing up to Kylo about his BS from the beginning to her slowly but suddenly believing that Kylo can be redeemed even though EVERYONE FROM J.J ABRAMS TO EVEN LUKE SKYWALKER WHO SAID TO REY THAT SOME PEOPLE CHOOSE NOT TO CHANGE AT ALL AND KYLO KILLING HAN SOLO PLUS NEARLY KILLING FINN, TLOHL!! I was nearly so ready to curse when Rey looks at him seemingly gazes at Kylo and saying Ben's name until snoke reveals his mind manipulation towards her in the throne room and Kylo making her know the so-called truth about who her parents/family really are when she fell into the pool of DARKNESS by probbing her to say it before stating that they sold her off and never love her at all, DESPITE WHAT SHE AND WE SAW IN TFA! WE ALL DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY ARE REALLY HER BIRTH PARENTS ON THAT SHIP LEAVING HER OR NOT IN THE FIRST FREAKING PLACE!!! Althought I now see him however as more of an emotional manipulator who's literally seeks to tear Rey away for his truly Evil & unstable motivations from the real truth, the folks who really care for her like Han, Chewie, BB-8, Leia, Luke despite his nasty behaviour towards her, Poe and Finn (her OTL) plus her birth parents by making her say that they're "nobodies" who never love her but he "doesn't see her that way" and as an opprtunist seeking to climb the ladder by first going with Snoke's plan before striking him down & lying to Hux about it. And it still irks & confuses me sometimes that people ship him & Rey together for the sake of the balance between Light & Dark despite clearly showing that this kind of relationship is purely about emotional manipulation preying on our inner & outer turmoil. It can have a negative influence on both young kids & teens, especially girls Ironically, feminists (NOT ALL OF THEM) want to end any kind of violence (physical, emotional & spiritual) against women in relationships... Sorry for this long rant but this is honestly how I feel about the current love situation between Kylo-Rey-Finn going into Episode IX next year.
The love triangle is here to stay my friend and it *does* pop up in real life. It's a tough pill to swallow my friend but is all over the place. You might want to stop counting and get used to it. They write songs about them.
I'm gonna write a love triangle from the point of view of one of the people who aren't in the middle out of spite
DO IT
Isn't that ACOTAR with Cass, Az and Mor?
While I do enjoy a good love triangle, they mostly annoy me when the end game is obvious. When a second love interest is put in place for tension but you know the protagonist will never end up with them.
Yeah, there has to be a good reason for it!
My brother told me this was his exact reason for not liking season 2 of the Love, Chunibyo, and Other Delusions anime.
Yuta's already with Rikka. The childhood friend "magical devil girl" doesn't have a chance. Even when she revealed her feelings, when one of the other characters asked Yuta what he was going to do about it, he told her something along the lines of, "what am I _supposed to_ do about it? It's _her_ problem."
@@ChaosRayZero This is 2 years and is just a long ant about a manga.
In the manga Nisekoi (anime ruined that part) long after we established the main girls, the younger sister of one of them appears.
Essentially the MC Raku likes Onodera Kosaki. However, he has to pretend date another girl, Chitoge, because he is an heir to a Yakuza family(Japanese mafia), and she is the daughter of a mafia boss, previously in the USA but now in Japan, to stop the fighting between their families. It was arranged by their fathers. There were 2 more girls but they were obviously not going to win, it was always between the Chitoge(a tsundere, constantly mean to Raku without reason but secretly likes him) and Kosaki(actually likes Raku but is to shy to say anything).
But then we get introduced to Kosaki's 1 year younger sister, Haru. She literally became the main character for a lot of chapters, and had her own things going on outside the Raku drama. But Haru hated him in the beginning because she belivied he is part of the Yakuza and constantly is surrounded by girls despite having a girlfriend. She acted like Chitoge. But then she actually spent time with him and realised they had a lot of things in common, she found out about the dating ruse, and how nice he is. Seriously, one time she and her sister were sick, and their mother couldn't take care of them, so he spent the entire day tending to both them, constantly checking on each of them (as they were in separate rooms, and he wasn't even in his house).
Then she started liking Raku as well. He, on the other was much more himself around Haru, as she was one of the only people he could talk about his interests with. They even had the same misfortune of ending up in weird situations. As well as befriending the people who are usually alone. They were perfect for each other as she was the perfect mix between Chitoge, Kosaki and Raku.
However, because Kosaki liked him first, and Haru is a good sister, she decided to get those two together and put her feelings aside. And it was just so painful to watch/read, as you could obviously see how much it hurt her everytime one her plans worked. And I gave up on the manga because I couldn't read a love story between 3 people, when the right choice isn't even part of the love triangle.
I agree with that, it should actually be unclear who the girl is going to choose(because it’s almost always a girl in the middle). They should both bring different pros and cons to the relationship, and each should have a different relationship with her so we really don’t know who’s going to win her affections in the end. It also should be realistic and the person in the middles choice should be based on who she truly does love and we shouldn’t know it going in.
Otherwise it’s just frustrating to watch a person in the middle playing games with the extra person to create forced tension.
I always get in trouble with love triangles for shipping the wrong couple. I find safety, loyalty, dependability, best friend-ness attractive, and it rarely works out for me. But my biggest complaint besides personal taste has to be how much of a jerk the person in the middle has to be to the two choices. Like you said, they really both ought to just leave for somebody new on tinder.
YES! finally someone who sees it too! Why is being a jerk sooooooo romantic? IT'S AN ASSHOLE!
I stg. Every time I ship a certain couple in a love triangle, the MC never chooses that love interest. It's so annoying.
To be honest, I think this Trope has evolved to be more of a Love "V" rather than a love triangle because it's the girl/guy choosing between two potential partners and therefore there is an empty space at the "bottom". There is no continuation of the cycle outside of the interest in the protagonist. I think the only story I have ever read with a real Love Triangle was Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night". *SPOILERS* (but really now) The Duke is in love with Olivia, who is in love with Viola (dressed as a man), who is in love with the Duke. The triangle has all sides as compared to, for example, the "Hunger Games". The protagonist is into both partner options but the two potential partners have no connection of "love" to complete the triangle . (Sorry for the long post. I wanted to get this off my chest.)
The love "V" is a love triangle, as least by current standards, though I get what you're saying. I think we'll see a shift in that too now with LGBTQ members included in more stories. I don't think it's a problem though, it's just the term that they use for it!
ITS A LOVE ARROW LMAO
Heheheh spoilers for a 500 year old play :P Twelfth Night is a gem.
This exactly!
The only love triangle I've seen is from the Legend of Korra, it starts of as a V like you said. Korra likes Mako but Mako has a girlfriend named Asami. Eventually Mako broke up turned to Korra. But then THEY broke up and after a few seasons of development of Korra's and Asami's relationship they ended up together in the end.
the thing about love triangles is that the protag always drags them both on, stringing them along and not picking either until the last minute. someone always has to get hurt. it's sad and unrealistic.
Li Not necessarily, there are plenty of examples in this where that’s just not the case.
ah I know, but it seems this is the trend in YA and it just makes me sad. i just wanna see a good, functional triangle. i think i'm salty because i just read matched... and girl i wanted to strangle the protag.
Love triangles should only be accepted if:
°it ends in a polygamous relationship
°the person A person B and C are fighting for ends up with someone else
°person B and C fall in love with each other and forget A
°Honestly have B and C both leave A because, is it really THAT hard to pick one?
Chaotic Neutral polyamory relationship in books are rare
Jim's numba 1 fan They certainly are
Team Edward and Jacob unite! Fuck Bella. What the hell is so special about her anyway?
Well thats definetely a way to subvert the trope, but a classic love triangle can be really fun to watch if done properly.
Trice That's the problem since it's so rarely done well and half the time is only added to create drama and often shows characters at their worst. It's more of an excuse for two "hot" (often white)guys fight over the main girl to create ship wars.
I’ve been a part of a real life love triangle and oh my god it’s bullshit. Waiting on someone to pick you is toxic, leading two people on and not making a decision is toxic, the animosity between to the two people people waiting to be chosen is toxic. I already hated this trope but having gone through it in real life I realize truly how toxic it is and also that I needed to see a therapist lol
For me, one of the most aggravating cliches regarding love triangles are when the characters are "in love" with both the love interests. Also, in so many of these books, when it is seems impossible for a girl and boy to actually just be platonic friends unless one of them is interested in the opposite gender.
I agree, love triangles used well can enhance a story, the ones that don't can tear a story to pieces. There's a series I'm reading that went from having the love triangle side by side or in the background of the story to putting it front and center. The story immediately took a back seat to the love triangle, developed simplistic writing and threw a 'romance' moment in multiple scenes per chapter for no reason. This move was clearly from fan pressure because her second book got lowballed on Goodreads with people complaining there was not enough romance and the girl not choosing right away. They're in the middle of a secret war but damn it to hell if a girl had other priorities. Even one of the guys had other priorities. But in the third book suddenly both are so focused on the girl and she's all romance flustered. Ugh, I'm glad the series has reached the final book this year. I don't want to see the writing go down any further. For the love of God writers, believe in your story and keep up the quality no matter the cries from the peanut gallery. If you want to include more romance, do so logically at least. Anyway, great video.
Shatter me? ;P
Can you tell what should I do. If I face love triangle. Lyk fight, give up, sacrifice
Like all tropes, I believe this can be done well, but not the way modern YA books do it.
The Night Circus did this well, just like it did everything well. How? There are two girls who could be potential love interests for this guy, but the back cover tells us which one he'll end up with. He never really loved the first girl, but she didn't realize that he'd moved on until he told her. When he does, she tears apart a charm in anger and frustration, which causes a tragedy. No angsty choosing between girls, no fighting between said girls, no time spent on this love triangle at all, but it still affects the plot. It doesn't really fall into any of these types. It can barely be called a love triangle, he just kisses one girl at the beginning and falls for the other one fifty pages later, and yet it still affects the plot!
What's frustrating about YA love triangles is how they're used to create sexual tension, rather than as plot devices. There's so much angsty "oh no, which one should I choose?" and there usually is an obvious correct choice. It just seems incredibly annoying and unnecessary.
I am working on a story that has a love triangle. It's about a boy who is attracted to his friend and having a hard time keeping his feelings to himself. He's sure she doesn't feel the same way and doesn't want to screw up their friendship, so he decides to pursue a girl in school who he knows doesn't like him because it's a good distraction. But the girl he's pursuing ends up developing feelings for him. His friend discourages him from getting involved with her and he figures that it must be because she likes him... but really she's in love with the girl.
They had a fling during the summer, which the girl called off because she wanted something real and broke the friends heart by implying that what they had wasn't.
It's kinda complicated and has a bittersweet ending.
See: Chasng Amy
That's a perfect triangle.
Tell me the title of the book when it's published because I want it.
Do you have a name idea yet? I'm really interested in your book
hey, its been 2 years. how are you doing now?
The Hunger Games wasn't that bad of an example, imo. Yes, the love triangle is cliche, but so much of the story was devoted to the ptsd and such the characters have to go through that it's still enjoyable. Katniss is a real person with real struggles, which kept it from being crap like Twilight.
I didn't think it was that bad, but I also didn't think it needed to be a love triangle. Gale didn't really add much to it romantically. I feel like if they were platonically friends it almost would've been better.
I literally STOPPED reading a book series when I smelled the triangle coming.
In defense of Katniss:
There is never any hint that she has any real interest in Gale, she knew him for all her live and never approached him in a romantic way whatsoever. It's obvious from moment one that Gale is like a brother to her or a friend. She can trust him with no matter what, like taking care of her sister but she never shows any physical affection towards him, he was never in the game as a love interest. It makes no sense that such a secondary character with little to no character depth or plot development is to be considered a love interest to Katniss - especially taking into account that she never made any romantic approach towards Gale prior to volunteering as tribute- so of cause he doesn't become a love interest when she is in a new environment completely separated from him- you don't all of the sudden fall in love with people that aren't around.
And Peta isn't a love interest for the first book or movie and a half too, she acts as if she loves him, it's a tool to survive and she thinks that Peta also just uses the aspect as a tool.
The romance between these two is really driven by hardship, loss and emotional events they experience and go through together.
Katniss might as well have not ended up with Peta and it would work with her character.
And that concludes the reason why it's always painful to me when people say there is a love triangle in the Hunger Games when they clearly just want there to be one because the actor of Gale was casted as a hot dude.
Gale was friendzoned from the very beginning.
I think the love triangule is just weak, since it is obvious she and Gale wouldn't work as couple after the game. But I understand this drama was functional make things worse to her and complicate she explorer her feelings for Peeta.
I think the movie played into the triangle far more than the book (for the first film/book). In the book it’s made pretty clear that Gale is older brother material. Katniss doesn’t necessarily love Peeta either, but they are together for a large chunk of the games and by playing romance (ie kissing cuddling etc) they get more gifts and supplies they need. At first the book makes it clear she isn’t a fan of this setup but by the end I felt that their romantic relationship had started. That Katniss tried romance (something she never saw a point to) found she actually enjoyed parts of it and then might be willing to continue on with it later. It at the very least opened her up to the idea of a romance with Peeta.
Gale gets… none of this 😂 in fact you forget he exists for most of the book. She isn’t pining after him and only thinks of him in terms of him hunting for food for Prim.
I think love triangles are also similar to knives in that if an entire character or more revolve around them it’s kinda creepy. I think you kind either need to keep them as only a subplot and/or explore/subvert them
Tropes ARE like knives because the more you use them the more dull they get.
Oooh thats pretty good
I personally hate what love triangles have become since because in the way it's currently being used it usually ends up basically just being cheating and that's not something I find remotely romantic or moral but there have been exceptions. An example that I find works best for me can be seen in many of Meg Cabot's teen books. The times it works for me is when the girls are genuinely in love with two different guys without being in a relationship with either at the same time (no cheating) and Meg Cabot also handled most of her love triangles with a certain amount of care and flair that - I'm sorry to say - I think most books now adays lack simply because they want to up the stakes so much that the humanity of it all is sacrificed for the sake of more angst.
Jeanet Henning I totally understand that sentiment.
love triangles are dead
love megagons are in style
mipmips yt haha
I would like to see a love triangle story that does something unexpected like having the girl realize that she doesn’t love either of the guys that are trying win her affections because she realizes that she is a lesbian and she falls in love with her female best friend or have the two guys in the love triangle realize that they are in love with each other instead of the girl they had been trying to win the affections of.
Definitely, or even just realize that she's okay being single! Because of audience's expectations, there's a lot that authors can play around with that isn't being touched.
Jordan Harvey I am cool with that too, girls need to have more stories to show that there is nothing wrong with staying single. I have no problem with romance, but it should be the most important thing in the story.
See: Chasing Amy
I wrote a fanfic with a triangle where the two guys ended up together, lol. It's really bad writing, though.
Yes!
Some people might pick up my book when it’s published and be like “oh three mcs? A girl and two guys? LOVE TRIANGLE”
THINK AGAIN! The girl is basically a sister to one of them and hardly knows the other, and doesn’t find him attractive in any way really. Plus, the boys are kinda maybe falling for eachother.
TROPE SLAYED
Also really well made video good job
I really liked the clips insertion, it helps to visualize a bit the stories you are referencing. And welcome back!
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback and will definitely include them in future videos :)
Great video! You made some awesome points! :) I admit that I still enjoy "good" or well-thought out love triangles (I guess they're my guilty pleasure haha) but I totally see why people can't stand them. I myself can't stand the generic love triangles with bland characters, especially the main character that "just can't seem to decide" and leads both parties on.
Glad you're back! Looking forward to more videos :)
Jennifer Krigbaum Thanks so much for the comment! There are definitely some love triangles that I adore, but I find recently we've been swamped with generic love triangles that are hard to get through.
Great video :) I never even thought about the MC choosing which world she wants to be apart of or which part of herself that she wants to explore :O Really great points! The love triangles I hate are when the MC is as powerless to her emotions as a trash bag blowing in the wind. Each guy blows her in a different direction, and she has no backbone, no integrity, she's a passive and empty-feeling type of character (as you mentioned). Or maybe she's stringing people along without a care for their feelings, and yet we're supposed to root for her. She lacks insight into her own actions which often leads her to being petty and jealous when one of her love interests is hanging around with other girls even though she's doing the same thing.
The love triangle takes up all of her time and energy and she doesn't have friends or other interests. She doesn't have time to be passionate about other things. Also, she is so inwardly focused, in constant turmoil and angsty over her love triangle the whole world seems unfair to her but rally she's got a bad case of first world problems. I often just want her to give up both guys, realize maybe neither are right for her if she honestly can't choose between them and take a gap year. Go backpacking around the world or something and discover herself. Idk that's what I'd do :D
I understand that the MC is a teenager so we shouldn't be too harsh on her for lacking insight, but she's still insufferable to read about and there are so many MCs who follow this formulaic character arc so it irritates me so much.
i hate it when the creator gets everyone hyped up for this one ship since the beginning and then completely obliterates it so suddenly,
“But she chose wrong hashtag team Jacob” ah MOOD😂
I like the addition of the clips
Good to know, thank you!!
Ok so here are my exceptions with love triangles:
1. When the story revolves around the trope (and even then, it has to be done well)
2. When the love triangle is more like a love chain (when person A likes person B, but person B likes person C, but person C likes person A)
3. Or when one person who is in a relationship with someone, but then later falls in love with someone else
yeah, if they're done well, I can definitely get on board with these too!
What about love dodecaedrum? Is it overused?
HAHAHA!!!! I like the way you think my friend. I share your sentiment.
Diego Buenfil Love dodecahedron? Did you get that from TWA?
As long as you include a massive orgy you're good to go !
See: The Mortal Instruments
The only love triangles I really love is Tess/Jem/Will from the Infernal Devices bc even if it's not canon we know that Jem and Will's love was more than a friendly one, they were more than best friends.
anyone know why the centre of the triangle is always a chick?
I literaly can't figure this out
Because for girls the most important thing for us is to find True Love and become good wives and mothers. It's not a good story with a female protagonist unless it's about her love life!!!!!!
(This is a joke comment I don't actually think that please don't kill me)
entertain7us14 - Because for some reason, it's imagined that all guys will pine and pine after a girl, no matter how difficult she is or how long she takes to be with him, or how often she flip-flops between saying "I love you" and "...but not as much as him", but two girls could never do that (because they're too busy falling in love with everyone that's hot and not good for them to be the ones focusing on a single guy for an entire book).
Otherwise it's sexist.
Note: this is a joke
Wonderful quality content! The additional clips gave it a very education feel, which you and your videos really provide for your audience. You can tell how much research you've done, especially when you're pulling love triangles from classic films (something I don't think many would have actually added). Well done, Jordan! I think it was also an interesting point you've made about how realistic romance has kind of dwindled IRL, making it more of a commodity (i.e. dating apps) rather than an actually connection with another or multiple human beings in a more organic setting (Note: I'm definitely not against online dating, etc.). I think how we treat romance in real life may have something to do with why we find love triangles intriguing in fiction, but also irritating when we translate it to our modern/contemporary times. And I agree with you; as much as I generally dislike the trope, many of these love triangles I actually enjoy reading and watching. I'm rambling now, but I also enjoyed how you mentioned the bland female protagonist as a self-insert. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with self-insert fiction, but I think it raises questions about the fabled Mary Sue trope and its (or her) connection with love triangles and self-insert type protagonists. Annnyways, great content as usual! I hope you had a wonderful time volunteering and it's good to have you back! :)
Thank you so much!! I think a lot of people are liking the clips, so I'll definitely include that in future videos. I think you're right in that we are intrigued by what we don't have, so our interest in fiction is piqued, but we also need a plausible story and setting for it to have impact and be enjoyed!
I hate them because no one does them right. They usually do them like a one sided love
Just found your channel, and somehow you've become one of my favorite booktubers already! Probably something about how you tackle tropes, review books, and your way you voice your opinions on current YA is unique and genuinely interesting to watch/listen to. I look forward to more content from you :D!
Thank you so much! That's so nice to hear!!
Theres noting wrong with love triangles it just how young adults wright them. Thats why I love the "change of heart" love triangle trope. How many people actually get with their first love? its more relatable when they dont.
so glad youre back and that you shared your opinion on love triangles! we're in the same boat on this topic!
illegirl thanks! And I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)
"But you GUYs' can SElF INSERT, right?" I am ashamed at how quickly my mind turned that into something as gravely over-done and usually poorly executed puns- still had a guilty giggle though. I have been binge watching your channel and have really loved the content so far though! The quality in recent ones is quite impressive and keep doin' what you are!
I just marathoned your videos, glanced down, and my jaw hit the floor. _only 3k subscribers?_ My Gods! Your channel has such high quality and your videos are top notch and informative, not to mention entertaining! I'm even part of your notification squad from now on because, girl, you just might be my favorite booktuber! ❤
Oh my gosh, you're so sweet! Thank you so much!!
I know I'm a little late here, but my biggest problem with modern love triangles is they're all the same. One person who has to choose between two potential partners. Doesn't help much that far too often they're both equally dull.
But there's so much more you can do with a love triangle. You can have a committed couple, with a third person trying to break them up because they want one of them. You can have person A in love with person B, who doesn't return their feelings, while person C is in love with A, who doesn't even know C exists because they're hung up on B.
So much potential, and all we get is dull girl can't choose between two equally dull guys.
The only love triangle that I like is the love triangle from the infernal devices (Tessa, will, jem) tbh it was the only love triangle that was not cliche and it was the first time I was in suspense of who will the MC choose as her endgame but people have their own opinions and if you didn't like the mortal instruments READ the infernal devices you're gonna love it
FROM:
a huge Cassandra Clare fan
Most love triangles want to make the protagonist seem so amazing when in reality its just selfish. "I love them both equally!".....Really?!
I won't fight for someone who isn't willing to fight for me....
One of my favorite arguments for Team Jacob was from Sailor J: "Team Jacob. Why? Cuz he has a pulse."
First of all, Welcome back, also I love your hair and glasses (I have a similar frame)
Thanks! The hair's a bit of a mess but I appreciate it :)
I don't like love triangles because either:
*1.* All three are completely flat and boring and I can't seem to get invested in them.
*2.* One of the love interests isn't really a love interest and is more of someone the main character is usually being pushed/is thought to already to be with by *LITERALLY* everyone else (including the one they *TRULY* love) and is also the kind of person you just want to punch in the face.
*3.* The two we're supposed to want to see get together turn out to be even *BIGGER* jerks than the so-called antagonist.
*4.* When the end pairing is so obvious *BECAUSE* the writers/creators made the third party of the so called "love triangle" so detestable that it really isn't a question of will they/won't they anymore.
And finally:
*5.* When the two people "fighting" over the main character actually have *MORE* chemistry with *EACH OTHER* than with the person they're fighting over; making the fans think that said "suitors" (for lack of a better word/term) would be better as a couple themselves than the person they're fighting over.
My fav love triangle, hands down, is Jem, Tessa, and Will from The Infernal Devices :DI’m sure a lot ppl say this, but still. They all love each other so much, it’s beautiful T^T and the ending resolved it perfectly (I like to think that in another universe they are in a polyamorus relationship. My friends and I just call it a love trio instead since each one of them loves the other two). Tbh I hate typical love triangles so much I’ll put down a book immediately if it gets obnoxious haha.
I like the little clips so definitely keep them!! anyway i think love triangles are often very predictable which makes the trope reeeeeeally boring
Yeah, for sure, like I mentioned in the video, they often follow the same patterns, and usually the author makes it clear which one will be chosen.
Jordan Harvey Exactly! It's either that or the author goes for the "underdog" in an attempt to surprise the readers... It's never really a surprise though.
Good love triangle is rare.
The problem with Love triangles is that they're handled poorly and, like you said, tend to feature a dull female lead that makes you want the male leads to end up together.
A love triangle that I actually liked a lot was the one in the Korean drama Strong Woman Do BongSoon (or strong girl bong soon on netflix) in which the love triangle is handled in a way that makes you be in favor of the one that eventually ends up with her, and her character subverts the Strong Female Lead trope in having her being very physically strong but having a very sweet personality, her character is very well constructed and goes through a very nice character development. The male leads are also very well written and go through a very good character development. In the end it didn't matter who she ended up with, because it was written in a way that you would have agreed anyways, it makes you root for both male leads at certain points and slowly develops the romance . I really reccomend it, it's one of the few Love triangles that had me doubting and that i really enjoyed. The main plot point was how she was in love with the first guy from the beginning, but developed romantic feelings for the second guy in such a natural way, because she was tired of waiting. The plot made so much sense and it all fell into place naturally.
You are the best!! And those glasses look so good on you. I love love triangles.... is that bad??
I love this!! I completely agree, and that's a really interesting point about the female protagonist being a blank character due to needing to have multiple love interests - this has always annoyed me but I've never thought about it quite like that!
Thank you! Haha my brother actually pointed that out to me, so I had the same experience of being like "oooh yeah"
It's a terrible metaphor, but a pretty good analogy.
Sea Salt Thanks mate
Great to see you posting videos again!
Love triangles are an interesting one. I am reading "A Gathering of Shadows" (by V. E. Schwab) these days, which features a love triangle with characters that have actual personalities. She writes an interesting setup, as the individuals are not pining over each other, but attempting to deal with their emotions and desires. Each person has their set of advantages and flaws, and to me as a reader, it is hard to root for any one of them. I have yet to finish the book, though. It might go unresolved or somehow not turn into a loving relationship (as knives are involved).
Ooh V. E. Schwab has been on my radar for a while now, so I may have to check that out! Sounds intriguing and I've heard great things about their work.
The first book in the series (A Darker Shade of Magic) is one that I generally recommend these days. It features a very interesting world building and intense characters. I just couldn't put down the book. D:
Sigve Solvaag Thanks! I'll check it out :)
Jordan Harvey what about the love triangle between Diana , Steve, and the gas?
As someone who has been caught in a love triangle it's literally the worst feeling. Reading about it is fun but no one comes out unscathed and it just sucks. The love triangle trope seriously needs to die
Omg I love Sabrina and While You Were Sleeping 😍😍
I don't know if you're into or know of the genre of this work, but White Album 2 is a definite example of a *dreaded* triangle, only probably it's more (far more I might add) emotionally draining than trite. No physical violence, though.
#TeamJacob 4 ever!
Great video, Jordan!
Nice video! The movie clips were a fun addition
Thank you!
I like them as long as the second guy doesn’t end up in a rushed relationship or practically “dies” in heartbreak
Usually I’m not one for love triangles, but I REALLY liked the love triangle in The School for Good and Evil Series by Soman Chainani. I’d really recommend this series if you haven’t read it, because it is absolutely fantastic. *Also, my comment will contain spoilers for it.*
This triangle occurs between protagonists Sophie, Agatha, and side character Tedros. The love triangle was less of a “love” triangle, since it is mostly Sophie having to choose between her friend and her love interest. But the dynamic soon changes from Sophie having to choose into Tedros being the one who needs to choose between Sophie and Agatha. And even later, the character who has to choose becomes Agatha. The changing dynamic is really interesting and refreshing and I find that it doesn’t really sacrifice the characters’ personality, but develops it.
Edit: the changing dynamic of the triangle keeps things interesting. The characters that compete are always changing instead of it always being one character whining, “Who should I choose???”
I LOVE THAT SERIES SO MUCH❤️
I have a rebound triangle and a player manipulation coming between friends triangle.
I confess.
I mean, I “kind of” have a love triangle in the book I’m writing. But not really, it’s more like manipulation and selfishness, and I don’t really know if I can bear to not make the main couple get together but I think I just sacrifice it if I want to help make their relationship dynamic exactly as I want, and not as fudgey and cute as my mind desires.
I’m not going to give it all away, but basically the protagonist is gay but (kind of) doesn’t know it and he has this admire/despise (Different from love and hate) relationship with his friend, but is also dating a girl who (kind of, but not really) “loves” him (but is basically just using sex to fill the meaningless void in her life) and I guess they’ve all got to work through their extremely selfish attitudes.
It technically counts as a love triangle because... well, I don’t really want to give away all my plot points but it’s more of a complex character study than a romance novel, given that no one will end up together and it’s just about 4 friends working through their sexuality, religion, purpose, and “ideal” selves in order to become better people. So, yeah, love triangles suck.
There's a French movie (I still have to watch ) called "A trois on y va" which deals with three characters (two girls - we'll name them A and B cause I don't remember the names- and a guy - C) . A and C are married, while A is cheating on C with B, and C is cheating on A with B. And the three of them end up together. Before this movie (and another one called "Jules Et Jim") I thought the love triangle always had to be one character choosing between two other protagonists, but fortunately there are some movies where the main one doesn't have to choose:)
Looking fine with them glasses girl! Great video as always, bit late watching this one.
I think love triangles have massive potential, but they aren't really used in a creative way. I have an idea for a story that revolves around a love triangle, and I wanted to explore the protagonist's relationships with the men in her life, so it sort of turned into a love pentagon and not all the sides are romantic.
Allow me to explain -- the MC is engaged to her best friend, the crown prince. She's been a friend of the royal family for years and their parents were delighted with the match, but neither her nor her friend feel that way about each other. She also has another friend who is like her adopted older brother. While the BF is outgoing and friendly and endlessly loyal despite her shenanigans, the brother is stern, quiet, and pushes her to become the best she can be. The two friends hate each other in the tradition of the two sides of a love triangle, but it's all platonic. There is also the BF's dad, the king, who MC respects as a father figure. She doesn't want to break off the engagement with BF because it would break the king's heart. The fifth player on this stage is the love interest, a charming young man of the lower nobility.
BF is actually delighted that his unwilling fiance is interested in someone else, and he plays matchmaker. Meanwhile, the brother wants MC to become a warrior, like him, and the king wants MC to marry BF not only because it's a political match, but because he genuinely believes that MC and BF love one another and won't admit it.
The story isn't really about romance, but about choices. MC must distinguish between what other people want and what she wants. She is pushed to consider what sort of life she wants to live, what kind of person she wants to be, and whether or not she can mend the relationships that could potentially be broken if she forges her own path.
Also, I love the irony of a love triangle where one "competitor" is unwilling and tries to get the other two to hook up. And it would be really awkward for the willing love interest, because he's trying very hard not to flirt with someone else's fiance. Drama and shenanigans, but the good kind, where the reasons behind the drama are solid. I love a good love triangle -- emphasis on *good*
I Hate love triangles. HATE.
Ya know what? Yeah. I like Final Fantasy 4 - but Rosa was kind of an empty shell of a character, she didn't really have any kind of meaningful motivation, which made Cain's rivalry with Cecil awkward and weird, and it really did seem like Cain cared more about Cecil than he did about Rosa. Lydia was a more compelling character than Rosa anyway. If that isn't evidence enough, look at *every harem anime ever*
The Witcher Series (at least in the games, I haven't finished the books) had an interesting and unique way of handling love triangles. Geralt was torn between two women, one having passion and excitement to the point of self-destruction (and using magic to get whatever she wanted), and the other was kind and fought for what she thought was right. Both represented the sides he could become. And he had plenty of personality to grate against them both, lol.
i'm a sucker for these tho. uuuugh best and worst guilty pleasure
Great video but dang... this really made me want to watch While You Were Sleeping again!
I feel the same way about this in books or anime. Even worse when it is a harem.
Welcome back! Just wanted to say as a new subscriber I love the quality of videos you’re putting out, as you can clearly see the thought and research that goes into making your videos! For me one reason I hate love triangles is that they seem like a lazy way to give the main character “development”, and almost in a degrading way, as it’s almost always a woman choosing between two men. I find it much more compelling if some other force besides two men cause our character to undergo change, and I hate the fact that this change hinges on the question of “which guy will she choose” instead of something with a little more substance. However like you said, they can be done well from time to time, as any trope can! Also just curious, are you studying english in college / planning to study it in the future?
Thanks for the comment, you're so right! That definitely is a problem, and I think almost more so when the love triangle is added as a subplot, as it generally takes up most of the protagonists "downtime." I'm not studying english currently, I'm actually a photographer, but I've been looking into film school as it kind of merges photography with writing and storytelling!
Rachel Stewart Are you studying English?
Yes I'm actually an English student with a Film Studies minor! I think film school would be an excellent choice to combine your interests in the visual medium as well as storytelling :)
Nice metaphor. If you cut down a story into parts, it will be made of tropes. But if the knife is bad, the tropes and the story will have annoying parts that couldn't be cut well
Personally for me, I happen to only enjoy the love triangles with a clear winner between the two love interests, and when the loser happens to find another guy/girl that they realize is better (and they find them r e al l y quickly). I think that it Since it kind of shows that there is clear romance going on with the protagonist and the winner, it emulates a normal romance between two characters rather than three. And it’s always a great bonus when you see a character that you didn’t like at the beginning start to grow on you after meeting a new character that’s CLEARLY way better for them. Since I mainly specialize in webcomics, two examples I can give is a bl webcomic called 19 Days and a romance called The Lady and her Butler. In 19 Days, the black haired boi initially likes one of the characters in the main relationship, but after realizing he doesn’t have a chance since he dude he likes doesn’t like him romantically at all, he gives up and happens to take interest into a different character. At first he’s made to look like a savage and a cool dude, but with the new character, he shows a caring side that makes him a very charming and likeable character. In The Lady and her Butler, I don’t think it really classified as a love triangle, but it shows a good example of a character changing with a different relationship. When a guy asks the protagonist out, he gets shorted down immediately. He could’ve been really annoying to see as a character getting in the way of the main couples relationship but instead, he accepts it and meets a new girl that he likes romantically more pretty soon. We get more insight to his character which is useful if you want to form an opinion about him.
Anyway, I think what it comes down to if the characters accepts the fact that they’re the loser, and if the loser improves with a new relationship (or maybe they realize being single is great), love triangles are actually b e a r a b l e. Just make sure there’s a clear winner, and that the loser doesn’t overstay his welcome. That’s just my opinion on the matter however and what my brain likes to see.
You don’t even know...
I’m writing about myself right now, a small short book, because the events that took place in my life are unbelievable and just shocking. I’m in a love triangle and dude it suuucks. Like, it’s not fun whatsoever, especially if you have morals. So now I’m just worried that my own personal story would be taken as a dumb cliche idfk I’m scared.
you go girl!!! loved it. keep doing you
🤔 Your analogy in the beginning...I like that dog. Nay, I STAN that dog! I Believe In That Dogs Purpose! It's doing God's work 😂
For some reason, I only ever see it done in a way that is actually enjoyable in Shoujo manga. Before you call me a stupid weeb, I do read a lot more novels than mangas, and sadly, there are a lot more stupid love triangles in novels. In Shoujo manga, usually the female protagonist has a crush on one of them and not the other, which eliminates the whole "who do I choose" thing. The guy whom she doesn't like may or may not have confessed to her, but either way, he tries to forget her (bonus points for that) but he can't, so he watches from the sidelines. However, something bad likely happens between the protagonist and the other man in the love triangle, which allows the guy she rejected to intervene on the premise of the other man hurting her. Bonus points if the two ends of the love triangle are good friends and can actually talk it out like civilized people. Did I mention that they usually put the girl's own feelings first? Because they do and they respect her decisions, and overall it's very feels-good.
I love the quality of your videos😍
Thank you!!
could you do a favourite books video? if you havent already
For sure!
because most love triangles are really love bent lines. one character as the focal point, both others interested in them. it's hard to write a actual love triangle because it actually involves some stuff that makes some people uncomfortable.
The BEST love triangle was from Titanic, period. Simply because Cal turned into a jealous wreck, making him more of a complicated person. And then he tried to KILL the both of them.
your tan is so pretty! also, I hate love triangles. does anyone actually enjoy it? idk, i just think it's a cheesy way to make teenage girl wish-fulfillment...
I think the problem with love tringle today is that it is weritten to be this wish fullfilment tool and not a "plot importance" tool so it just stack in the story like a bone in our throut so I did write in my book the love tringle as I believe it should be-
I have 2 males and 1 female and they both start off hating the female (for a really good reason and she desereved it 100%) one of them, Jay-den, had saved the female (Iay-La) a long time ago so she (comidecly) confess her undying love to him in their vary first talk, Phillip, his best friend (who had a crush on Jay, Pil is bi) is obviesly upset and hate the annoying brat vary much, but after Jay- den (like a reasnuble man) tells her "no" she just gives up and tries to help Phillip, funny enough, end up with Jay-den, they go though a lot and it makes the two boys get to know her better, and her to get to know them, but I made it as a tragic love tringle beacuse I had a messege to bring within the story, the more they know each other the more they understand that there isn't any shape or form for all of them to end up haappy in the end, and they just have to keep pretending eveything is fine beacuse the friendship and bond they made between the 3 of them is way too much to lose.
I think people are so used to love tringles they forgot that in the core- it's a tragic ttol ment to tell a story of unrequaired love, a story of 2 or 3 people, despretly loving and caring for one another, but are stack in a loop beacuse they don't want to hurt the other.
Pretty much everything you said. The reason why I hate these so much in YA is that often times they aren't believable or done in an interesting way, along with the MC having the personality of a toaster oven. But if they're done in the past or done in an interesting way like having her choose neither or have the two people of the same gender end up together like what happened with Korrasami in LoK, I don't mind them as much. But that's not the case.
Yeah, I thought I just hated this trope, but the more I researched it, the more I realized that it wasn't always bad. It's only recently that it's been done extremely poorly.
I guess I see Kylo Ren as an obstacle to Finn and Rey's relationship for obvious reasons.
I hated this trope until a love triangle drama/dilemma actually happened to me in real life. And it wasn't even when I was a teenager. I then discovered that contrary to what I always thought this trope has roots in real life and people can be confused about love. I can appreciate this trope then if the characters feelings are described well. Or if they have an actual reason to wonder about this, because in so many YA books they just fucking don't. Bella Swan's dilemma was ridiculous. Katniss Everdeen's dilemma made sense. I recently god a bit mad at my favourite author, Brandon Sanderson, because he foreshadowed a love triangle in Stormlight 2, but then, totally Brandon style he took that trope and turned it around into something creative in Stormlight 3. I won't go into detail, because EVERYBODY needs to read these books ;) But yeah, there was a bit of "they are so different and I don't know what I want to be" but it turned out fine.
So is your issue more with love triangles where the protagonist is the one making the choice? I mean I can't think of many examples off the top of my head where the protagonist is one of the suitors but I'm sure there must be at least a few out there. What are your thoughts on that sort of structure?
I can't think of any either, as generally it's more of a "the bachelor(ette)" type situation with many suitors competing for the affection of someone in a position of power, which can be done well, but most of the time is just trashy.
Ooooh that’s smart me likey
See: Chasing Amy
Depends on the writing.
Ughhhhhhhh honestly when the characters biggest issue is which guy to pick i'll usually give up on the book. People are dying, kim.
The movies on the background were amazing, and I really appreciate you giving us examples of what your talking about instead of just throwing info at us, it emphosizes it better.
git gud. ~
My main problem with love triangles, is, that a v or triad relationship is never even brought up as a possible solution and that the main character is pressured to decide between two solutions - even though there are more. For once she could take neither of the guys, she might take both or something like that
you're not wrong, but it definitely depends on the setting/world.
To be honest, I am generally kinda annoyed, how so many fantasy/scifi worlds are still monogamic and heteronormativ. Especially the monogamic part, as I can think of quite a few fantasy cultures, where it just strikes me as odd.
Wait! What are the love triangles that you like???? Can you make a video?!
I read this one book, where the main character was the granddaughter of Alice (In Wonderland). She had a boyfriend back in the mundane world, and a love interest in Wonderland. The love triangle was a side plot to the political battles of Wonderland, but it was still prevalent. In the end, she becomes immortal, marries the mundane man, fakes her deaths, and goes to Wonderland to be with the Wonderland man. This made me angry. I guess it was subversion of the trope, but I was annoyed , still. If I'm already sacrificing my dignity to read a love triangle, I want a choice.
I'd love to read a book in which the heroine doesn't end up with either of the love interests.
Interesting video! I like that you mention that love triangles CAN be a good thing, but are annoying to a lot of people due to overuse, as it is in a lot of YA books today.
I never thought of buttercup/humperdink/Wesley as a love triangle before... but it is. I love the princess bride book and movie, and that's definitely an example of a love triangle that doesn't bother me.
As for your clip use, i liked it. For me it made it seem like your video was more like a video essay versus a vlog, at least visually. I also like the cut ins to your face when you say something funny, haha. I think music would make it even better -- there's probably a lot of stuff in the public domain you can use, like classical music if you're into that. I don't recommend the ukulele/bell track because at this point it has become a lil' overplayed. I think it would be a good idea to go for some music - so many free tracks out there. Even something subdued can help cancel out the static from your mic.
The sound quantity is not the best, but I'm willing to live with it because your content is good. I'd rather watch something that doesn't have ridiculously expensive sound design, but had good ideas, than something with amazing sound quality that doesn't convey anything I particularly care about. So I'm willing to forgive the sound because I enjoy your content!! Liked this video.
The glare on your glasses is distracting. I can forgive this as a) glasses help you see and b) that window gives nice lighting. BUT if this is any alternative to a glare free experience, I would personally recommend it. (Hope u don't think I'm a jerk -- if there is no solution or if you don't feel like listening to one random comment I'm not gonna be mad! U look cute but the shine is simply distracting to my walnut brain).
Tropes are like knives -- TRUE
I'd like to see some book recommendations from you! I saw the reviews you did for pierce brown's red Rising trilogy -- and I loved that series -- so I'm very much interested to see what else you like! I'll probably check out whatever books you enjoy from my library. If you haven't read any of her books yet, I recommend Louise Erdrich to you. She writes historical/contemporary fiction, some of it centering around Ojibwa native Americans. My favorites from her are Tracks and The Last Report of the Miracles of Little No Horse. I'm a Vonnegut fan as well and would like to see you talk about him if you like him too. My two favorites from him are probably Mother Night and God Bless You Mr Rosewater
Thank you so much for the long comment and the recommendations! I will have a favourites/book recommendation video up sometime soon (maybe next week or the week after) so keep an eye out for that!
As far as the glasses, I'm so sorry!! I generally wear contacts but I couldn't yesterday, but it won't happen again (I'll go blind if I have to haha).
As for the sound, it was especially bad yesterday, but I will be reinvesting the money that I get from this channel, so hopefully I'll have a better sound setup soon (if people don't get tired of me and the channel continues to grow)!
Thanks again and I'll definitely look into Louise Erdrich :)
Hey! I uploaded a book recommendations video a few weeks back in case you didn't catch it, but are still interested. ruclips.net/video/o0zpLnDYEiA/видео.html
My favorite play on the trope is when the girl realizes she doesn't really like either of the two guys and the two guys realize that their obsession with each other does not stem from competition over the girl, but rather mutual attraction. If a book pulled this off I would def read it. Otherwise, this trope is generally poorly done and as others have commented, it's become a V in the last few decades which is strange. I feel like the reason tropes in YA are annoying is because they are usually not well understood and not implemented for an intellectual reason to serve as plot, but rather for wish fulfillment. Which, I get it, I do, but I feel like we need to be honest about what is just an entertaining fanfic and what is a thought-provoking novel. Not trying to pit these against one another and say one is good/useful and the other is not, just that they are different and expectations for them will be different. Anyways rant over.
I'm currently writing a story about two teenage girls who are best friends. One turns out to be a Changeling (half-fairy) and when they end up in the fairy world, they meet an Irish Water Horse called a Kelpie. Humans are food to him, but the Changeling is important to him for plot reasons. I have a love triangle that is not all romantic love, but a choice between platonic genuine friendship and a toxic lustful relationship built on techniques pimps often use to groom young girls. One is healthy and one is full of temptation and sex. Hint: she chooses poorly...and becomes a villain.
can you do a review of the cruel prince by holly black i just finished and not really sure how much i like it you're my favourite booktuber in the whole world!!!!!!!
"Unlike twilight"? I'm pretty sure it was glaringly obvious who Bella would choose... I'm not saying that because I'm Team Edward or anything, I prefer Jacob, but it seemed almost ridiculously obvious she saw Jacob as a younger brother figure and he was so far in the friend-zone that it was hard for me to read scenes where he flirted with Bella...
The only love triangle which I currently dislike is Kylo Ren (The bad unredemmed guy) vs Finn (A good guy whom truly cares for Rey beyond her origins and power) over Rey in the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. I was honestly feeling into FinnRey after TFA and have hopes that it becomes a reality since their chemistry is sweet & genuine from the start despite the rocky start. (I don't see Rey as just a "Love Interest at all btw). Since TLJ however, it almost seems that Reylo might come true with all the teasing and tension that almost takes me off the film. However after Rey literally shut the door at Kylo Ren near the end, I was thinking: "Finally!" After everything that happened to her from standing up to Kylo about his BS from the beginning to her slowly but suddenly believing that Kylo can be redeemed even though EVERYONE FROM J.J ABRAMS TO EVEN LUKE SKYWALKER WHO SAID TO REY THAT SOME PEOPLE CHOOSE NOT TO CHANGE AT ALL AND KYLO KILLING HAN SOLO PLUS NEARLY KILLING FINN, TLOHL!! I was nearly so ready to curse when Rey looks at him seemingly gazes at Kylo and saying Ben's name until snoke reveals his mind manipulation towards her in the throne room and Kylo making her know the so-called truth about who her parents/family really are when she fell into the pool of DARKNESS by probbing her to say it before stating that they sold her off and never love her at all, DESPITE WHAT SHE AND WE SAW IN TFA! WE ALL DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY ARE REALLY HER BIRTH PARENTS ON THAT SHIP LEAVING HER OR NOT IN THE FIRST FREAKING PLACE!!!
Althought I now see him however as more of an emotional manipulator who's literally seeks to tear Rey away for his truly Evil & unstable motivations from the real truth, the folks who really care for her like Han, Chewie, BB-8, Leia, Luke despite his nasty behaviour towards her, Poe and Finn (her OTL) plus her birth parents by making her say that they're "nobodies" who never love her but he "doesn't see her that way" and as an opprtunist seeking to climb the ladder by first going with Snoke's plan before striking him down & lying to Hux about it.
And it still irks & confuses me sometimes that people ship him & Rey together for the sake of the balance between Light & Dark despite clearly showing that this kind of relationship is purely about emotional manipulation preying on our inner & outer turmoil. It can have a negative influence on both young kids & teens, especially girls
Ironically, feminists (NOT ALL OF THEM) want to end any kind of violence (physical, emotional & spiritual) against women in relationships...
Sorry for this long rant but this is honestly how I feel about the current love situation between Kylo-Rey-Finn going into Episode IX next year.
The love triangle is here to stay my friend and it *does* pop up in real life. It's a tough pill to swallow my friend but is all over the place. You might want to stop counting and get used to it. They write songs about them.
Eponine Reads stop counting? I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say!