Legacy is broken in a myriad ways. You don't playtest for legacy. You just let different broken things duke it out and *maybe* you ban something if it becomes a problem
It falls to Exile-based Removal and can be Bounced away. Marit Lage is only immune to Destruction and, since it does not have Haste, Sorceries work as good
@@alpha34098 Yes, we get it. Every piece of cardboard can be answered somehow in Magic. However, that doesn't change the fact that the game becomes very different when you simply must have a specific interaction T2, or you die next turn. Luck is an essential part of the game, but the moment one instance of luck ends the game, you might as well start playing rock paper scissors. It's far cheaper.
@@WitchingMoon88 The other dark depths is in your gy, legend rule doesn't stop this. Legend rule applies when you copy depths with thespians stage, but you sacrifice the old one with counters to the legend rule and keep the new one, so it still works.
Brilliant. So you board in a set of Stifle to deal with a single interaction. Which means you have 4 dead cards in any other board state. If that wasn't bad enough, they're splashing black....which specializes in hand destruction. There are better ways to deal with Depths. Stage, Vesuva or Mirage Mirror for deterrent. Then your choice of land boom.
@dawnfallon6812 you are getting really defensive over a simple lord of the rings reference mate. This deck isn't even a thing. I was just having fun with a comment and you came outta left field all heated.
Getting a 20/20 flying, indestructible creature by only having to successfully resolve a single spell turn 1 is terrifying even before the Eldrazi chaser that tags along with it.
@@Urahara451 that doesn’t *have* to resolve though. It could just be 1 turn slower with another land drop - but yes you’re right that my reply isn’t a correction.
The Magic community's astounding propensity to discover these combos never ceases to amaze me. This is really cool if you're so lucky to have something like this on opening hand. I wouldn't mind dying to this every few games or so.
@@erisdiscordia5429@erisdiscordia5429 aside from mine. Depths, poison, and reanimator are my only good matchups. 4 innocent blood, 4 smallpox, and 4 Lillie's.. Sac baby sac then sinkhole their last land and hymn their last cards. The black plague of death.. Wait you said creature less? Hmm haven't seen that yet. So it's not the buffed insect one? I'm assuming it's dimir proliferation ya? I've played that in standard on arena recently. Do you have a link to your leg version? Super interested.
Aside from that use, I'm happy to have a nice and simple way of finally removing experience counters. I always struggle to find cards that assust with that
Unless color restrictions or fear of counterspells are a concern, suncleanser could already do that and prevent the opponent from gaining any more counters while it's out as well
Turn 1: Thespian's Stage, Tap Stage to play Sol Ring Turn 2: Play Dark Depth's, Tap Sol Ring to use Stage to copy Dark Depth and it sacs to become Marit Lage. Turn 3: Watch Marit Lage get turned into a basic land with Path to Exile. Be labeled the Archnemesis rest of game. Lol
I take Depths combos out of my edh decks for this reason. For my Omo deck I swapped out the dark depths for a Mazes end and it works wonderfully as a backup win con rather than a cheese combo I hope to pull off and keep on board for several rotations of attacking.
@MithDragon That's pretty awesome. I was looking at using Maze and the Gates for an alt win con. I saw someone using the gates for pretty decent mana acceleration, too. That's what gave me the idea. This makes me want to do it even more. ^.^
@@MithDragon where did you get the idea from, that the short is talking about commander?? He literally sais "in legacy you go..." before describing the interaction...
I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Cultist is 3 mana, but for turn 2, we have 1 land and dark depths, which doesn't tap for ... oh, right. Yavimaya makes dark depths tap for mana.
That deck and poison are the only two decks I used to beat regularly playing leg Pox. 4 dart rits, 4 innocent blood, 4 smallpox, and 4 Lillie's.. Sac baby sac then sinkhole their last land and hymn their last cards .. Turn 2 20/20 meet.. The black plague of death.
As a reminder there are spells that counter triggers and I use them in decks, when I'm feeling mean I'll do it on crack land trigger because that will send the land to the bin and stop them from looking for the extra land
I figured this combo out as a brand new player the day the precons dropped. I moved the depths from the tricky terrain deck to the Eldrazi one, looked at these pieces together and immediately started laughing. It's gross how fast you can achieve it too, if you get both cards early on.
In my 60 card snow deck this card is such an awesome tech just being able to immediately on summon remove counters from depths to get a 20/20 token with flying and indestructible!! and top of all that makes my Rimefeather Owl go from 7 mana to just two when I cast it!!
Looks pretty good but you could also do shenanigans with spirit guide and some low mana cost or free artifacts to play the delirium emrukul takes opponents turn waste whatever things they have attack into your big boys and give them an empty board
Imprisoned in the moon marit, counter the disenchant till you can steal their shit. Keep bouncing it to their hand till you can exile it. Displacer kitten helps a lot when you’re casting spells.
Thanks for the tip. I'm not crazy about the timing, but I wouldn't object to this a little later in the game with Crop Rot backup. Essentially 8 copies of Hexmage.
I mean, can just do the same thing with a Hexmage and Urborg and no mana dork. I guess it's hard to counter a triggered ability, until you realise that Consign to Memory is in every blue deck at the moment. Counters both the Mutated Cultist as well as its ability
Why they didn’t specify a permanent an opponent controls is beyond me. This is clearly meant to be a way to interact with energy counters since it was released in the same set as a bunch of energy support, but it also works great against problematic planeswalkers or +1/+1 counter heavy decks. Allowing you to drain your own counters was a terrible idea.
Draining your own counters is clearly intended as a downside which gives you a proportional upside. Blame dark depths being one of the only cards in the game where counters are detrimental and losing them is beneficial.
It also released in a precon. Dark Depths is literally a card in another of the precons. This wasn't an accident, idk why people act like it was. Edit: The deck with DD in it also has Thespian Stage. Genuinely, they intended to give ppl Dark Depths combo pieces
Might actually be cool to cast something like God-Pharaoh's Statue (especially if you do some lotus petal dark ritual stuff to do this turn 1). Opponent wont even be able to plow your marit lage on their first turn anymore Or Trinisphere since your main combo piece costs 3 anyway. Perhaps some games you just dark ritual into Trinisphere to buy yourself a boatload of time
Vampire Hexmage is probably just cleaner and still not as reliable as Thespian Stage but also casting an Eldrazi or something at least has some humour value to it.
I prefer the shifting woodland option from MH3 as well. Since copying a Dark Depths in your graveyard won't put the counters on it, it will just immediately make a 20/20 for 4 mana from a land slot.
the frustrating part is the card would have been perfectly fine if they said “nonland permanent” but the magic design team just doesn’t care to put effort in
Yup! But you'll need something else with a bunch of counters to make use of that second cultist trigger. Worth pointing out that Echos will trigger Dark Depth twice, but the tokens are Legendary 😅
@@attackoncardboard Now I’m trying to think of what the best secondary targets would be. Opponent’s counters are obviously good (I especially love the idea of draining your opponent’s Ulamog, the Defiler), or if you have poison counters, but it’s better to run your own guaranteed combos, typically. Similar to Dark Depths you could drain ice counters from Thing in the Ice, but I feel like draining age counters from cards with cumulative upkeep is another good way to go. I can’t find anything nearly as good as Dark Depths though, alas
It’s strange to me that this card seemingly isn’t played in legacy dark depths, like I know they play vampire hexmage as their main counter remover on a creature but that still has to resolve and sac itself. Cultist being a cast trigger seems way better despite being 1 more mana
@@sablesalt What are you talking about? This is just primary school playground battles. "Well I'm invincible." "Well I have anti-invincible bullets." "Well I can move faster than bullets."... There are counters for everything. Just because something has a counter doesn't make it bad. Remember how "Dies to removal" is suuuch a good argument against Sheoldred or (if youre old enough) Baneslayer Angel...
Turn 0 gemstone caverns
Turn 1 depths, dark ritual, cultist
The things you can do in Magical Xmas land! 😂
@attackoncardboard That's only 5 cards in your opening hand, vs your scenario of 5 cards in your opening hand + 1 draw step
@@bricknolty5478so you mean ... 4 cards In Both cases?
@@marcoottina654 exactly, they're both Magical Christmas Land lol
Tbh I turn 5 dark depths all the time and all it does is have someone work indestructible on a token which is easier done than said
How can you NOT think of Dark Depths when printing that!? There's simply no way that this interaction wasn't their express intent
It's just 30 power worth of creatures on Turn 2 while exile-ing both your lands and being near uncounterable 😂
Also shifting woodlands
Oh, you still believe that actual people are playtesting cards. That is kinda sad tbh.
Legacy is broken in a myriad ways. You don't playtest for legacy. You just let different broken things duke it out and *maybe* you ban something if it becomes a problem
I think they made this card as a way to interact with energy counters since they brought that back
It still dies to removal. By "it" I mean the opponent dies to turn 2 removal.
in case of "target player sacrifices creature" you have at least 1 more creature to choose instead
Or "it" being the opponent with Turn 2 combo kill
Unsummon the marit Lage, ez pz
It falls to Exile-based Removal and can be Bounced away. Marit Lage is only immune to Destruction and, since it does not have Haste, Sorceries work as good
@@alpha34098 Yes, we get it. Every piece of cardboard can be answered somehow in Magic. However, that doesn't change the fact that the game becomes very different when you simply must have a specific interaction T2, or you die next turn. Luck is an essential part of the game, but the moment one instance of luck ends the game, you might as well start playing rock paper scissors. It's far cheaper.
Not to mention the Woodlands can copy depths, sacrifice itself dur to having no counters and also getting you Marit Lage
It's all coming together...
Mirror box, Marit Lage Tribal
Legend rule. Good thought though
Mirror Box would work
@@WitchingMoon88 The other dark depths is in your gy, legend rule doesn't stop this. Legend rule applies when you copy depths with thespians stage, but you sacrifice the old one with counters to the legend rule and keep the new one, so it still works.
Looks like stifles back on the menu boys!
"And where did that bring you, back to me."
Stifling dark depths does nothing, as it will simply trigger again to create Marit Lage anyway
@williamdrum9899 you stifle the black creatures ability so it never removes the counters.
Brilliant. So you board in a set of Stifle to deal with a single interaction. Which means you have 4 dead cards in any other board state. If that wasn't bad enough, they're splashing black....which specializes in hand destruction.
There are better ways to deal with Depths. Stage, Vesuva or Mirage Mirror for deterrent. Then your choice of land boom.
@dawnfallon6812 you are getting really defensive over a simple lord of the rings reference mate. This deck isn't even a thing. I was just having fun with a comment and you came outta left field all heated.
Getting a 20/20 flying, indestructible creature by only having to successfully resolve a single spell turn 1 is terrifying even before the Eldrazi chaser that tags along with it.
It doesn’t have to resolve
@@alexschwartz4412the Ignoble Hierarch does
@@Urahara451 that doesn’t *have* to resolve though. It could just be 1 turn slower with another land drop - but yes you’re right that my reply isn’t a correction.
@@alexschwartz4412 ...unless you get lucky with Gemstone Caverns.
The Magic community's astounding propensity to discover these combos never ceases to amaze me. This is really cool if you're so lucky to have something like this on opening hand. I wouldn't mind dying to this every few games or so.
Not this one. People always have DD in their minds as a “check every new set to see if we can break this again”.
it’s not all that complicated, anything that can copy Depths or remove the counters in one go is always going to get found really quickly
Depths is one of my all-time favorite cards. Any time a new card comes out that works with it is just gravy.
We did guys. We broke dark depths
They can't keep getting away with this!
Took them long enough
...again.
to counter the power creep, my friends and I now play with 100 life, so that games can now last until turn 3
because Hexmage dark depths turn 2 was not strong enough, now you get an ulamog on top of it...
sad banned i mordern noices
As well as being impossible to counter by conventional means
Oh shit, my creatureless poison deck just shit itself.
You cant target yourself with the Cultist ;)
Oh wait, lol, you're right, nevermind. My deck will continue eating everyone.
@@erisdiscordia5429they can use it to give one of your opponents another turn or two
@@erisdiscordia5429@erisdiscordia5429 aside from mine. Depths, poison, and reanimator are my only good matchups. 4 innocent blood, 4 smallpox, and 4 Lillie's.. Sac baby sac then sinkhole their last land and hymn their last cards. The black plague of death.. Wait you said creature less? Hmm haven't seen that yet. So it's not the buffed insect one? I'm assuming it's dimir proliferation ya? I've played that in standard on arena recently. Do you have a link to your leg version? Super interested.
Aside from that use, I'm happy to have a nice and simple way of finally removing experience counters. I always struggle to find cards that assust with that
When I read the card my first tought was "That works for battles, doesn't it?"
There is a white cleric doing the same
Also removing poison counters from an opponent as a politicking piece!
I thought for battles removing the counters doesn't give you the backside
you had to kill it in combat @@colboy1fish
Unless color restrictions or fear of counterspells are a concern, suncleanser could already do that and prevent the opponent from gaining any more counters while it's out as well
Dark depths into ulamog is exactly what I was thinking
It's like it was meant to be 😂
after dark depths, and the 10 colours mana deduction, akroma's memorial would win the game on the spot
Modern Horizons 3: Eldrazi Resurgence
Throw in a solemnity, works too. Take Nine Lives while you're at it. Then a Luminous Broodmoth for creatures that only exile will get rid of
Well, it gets around Force of Will, I'll give it that.
Cultist's first effect is crazy enough, but of course they had to give it a second, equally as insane effect. _power creeeeeep....._
Legacy teaching edh how to do war crimes
Turn 1: Thespian's Stage, Tap Stage to play Sol Ring
Turn 2: Play Dark Depth's, Tap Sol Ring to use Stage to copy Dark Depth and it sacs to become Marit Lage.
Turn 3: Watch Marit Lage get turned into a basic land with Path to Exile. Be labeled the Archnemesis rest of game. Lol
I take Depths combos out of my edh decks for this reason. For my Omo deck I swapped out the dark depths for a Mazes end and it works wonderfully as a backup win con rather than a cheese combo I hope to pull off and keep on board for several rotations of attacking.
@MithDragon That's pretty awesome. I was looking at using Maze and the Gates for an alt win con. I saw someone using the gates for pretty decent mana acceleration, too. That's what gave me the idea. This makes me want to do it even more. ^.^
We were talking about Legacy, so with it bei on 1v1 you should probably be considered the archenemy for your opponent from the very beginning
@@nitramreniarwho was taking about legacy here? Even the video is about commander and so was this OP.
@@MithDragon where did you get the idea from, that the short is talking about commander?? He literally sais "in legacy you go..." before describing the interaction...
I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Cultist is 3 mana, but for turn 2, we have 1 land and dark depths, which doesn't tap for ... oh, right. Yavimaya makes dark depths tap for mana.
That deck and poison are the only two decks I used to beat regularly playing leg Pox. 4 dart rits, 4 innocent blood, 4 smallpox, and 4 Lillie's.. Sac baby sac then sinkhole their last land and hymn their last cards .. Turn 2 20/20 meet.. The black plague of death.
Ahhh yes a perfectly fair game of Magic the Gathering 😊
Wizards: I’m not asking anymore. Play. Stifle. 😂
could also use that cost reduction for a void winnower to invalidate half your opponents cards
Bro I can't even
@@sethb3090 According to the official rulings on the card:
*_Yes. We know._*
@@WillRennar but of course
This happens, but the most important thing was depriving my super slow Boros vehicle deck of the Mana Crypt that I spent money to get.
You can still play that card at casual events and rule 0 it with your play group.
And this is why WotC needs to print more stifle effects
Or just think for a second...
As a reminder there are spells that counter triggers and I use them in decks, when I'm feeling mean I'll do it on crack land trigger because that will send the land to the bin and stop them from looking for the extra land
that super mario sound from 30 years ago when the 20/20 hit the table , damn how can i remember that?
Aaaand that's where Stifle works.
MTG is slowly getting into the yugioh of turn one games
I have this combo in my commander deck, its funny when people dont expect you to cast a 2 mana Ema at flash speed.
I never knew this works with dark depth, I personally use this for Millennium Calendar and Torment of Hailfire
I love the Daisy Circuit theme! ❤
Marit Lage is an eldrazi confirmed? Lol
I figured this combo out as a brand new player the day the precons dropped. I moved the depths from the tricky terrain deck to the Eldrazi one, looked at these pieces together and immediately started laughing. It's gross how fast you can achieve it too, if you get both cards early on.
Ahh, finally... player removal.
In my 60 card snow deck this card is such an awesome tech just being able to immediately on summon remove counters from depths to get a 20/20 token with flying and indestructible!! and top of all that makes my Rimefeather Owl go from 7 mana to just two when I cast it!!
Marit Lage or not, the Cultist is absolutely broken.
I believe you're missing something vital. Yavimaya taps for green... Mutated Cultist needs black, AND you are at least 1 mana short.
Looks pretty good but you could also do shenanigans with spirit guide and some low mana cost or free artifacts to play the delirium emrukul takes opponents turn waste whatever things they have attack into your big boys and give them an empty board
Commamder
Turn 1: Dark Depths; Lotus Petal; Dark Ritual; Mutated Cultist; Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger.
I once got killed by the 20/20 from someone using vampire hexmage to take off all the counters
I think in commander this could be a fun tech in a black green counter deck remove a ton of +1/+1 counters to play your win condition
The real question is, "Do you send Marit Lage to another plane or send her back to harvesting crops while Ulamog annihilates you?"
Just realized the combo potential this card has with millennium calender into torment of hailfire. Two black plus maybe 40 for the x?
Imprisoned in the moon marit, counter the disenchant till you can steal their shit. Keep bouncing it to their hand till you can exile it. Displacer kitten helps a lot when you’re casting spells.
on cast still going through on a counter is not an interaction I had thought of. Thats brutal
This deck is messed up. So epic.
Stifle gonna be making it's way to sideboards to a deck near you!
Wizards keeps forgetting that land exist LoL XD
This is very well edited.
Thank you! It's been a long journey, I cringe watching my older videos 🤣 I hope you enjoy the rest of the content 😃
Welcome to dark depths 2 electric boogaloo!
Oh dang… that’s really good. Yeah I think I’ll take my turn 3 Marit Lage and 10 colorless mana. Thank you very much lol
And really you cast Ceaseless Hunger and pop the opponent's two lands. Good luck coming back from 30 damage with 1 open mana.
That last part is really everything that matters
For balancing purposes its best to ignore that vintage and lagacy exists as no matter what you print it will break those formats
We did it folks we broke dark depths in 2024 finally
You have to see the token as the gravy, early titan is the payoff
All of this is stopped by a single Wasteland.
Hope your draw it!
If you also manifest dread it from the top of your deck and flip it, it also cracks
As Mr Garfield intended
Thanks for the tip. I'm not crazy about the timing, but I wouldn't object to this a little later in the game with Crop Rot backup. Essentially 8 copies of Hexmage.
I mean, you could also just cast lightning greaves and kill them, lol
Stifle, Strict proctor, High noon, Orims chant, Thissana Tidebinder... plenty of responses.
👍
Ah yes, Commander Horizons 3, with a Little Bit of Modern
I mean, can just do the same thing with a Hexmage and Urborg and no mana dork. I guess it's hard to counter a triggered ability, until you realise that Consign to Memory is in every blue deck at the moment. Counters both the Mutated Cultist as well as its ability
Why they didn’t specify a permanent an opponent controls is beyond me. This is clearly meant to be a way to interact with energy counters since it was released in the same set as a bunch of energy support, but it also works great against problematic planeswalkers or +1/+1 counter heavy decks. Allowing you to drain your own counters was a terrible idea.
Draining your own counters is clearly intended as a downside which gives you a proportional upside. Blame dark depths being one of the only cards in the game where counters are detrimental and losing them is beneficial.
It also released in a precon. Dark Depths is literally a card in another of the precons. This wasn't an accident, idk why people act like it was.
Edit: The deck with DD in it also has Thespian Stage. Genuinely, they intended to give ppl Dark Depths combo pieces
Turn 01: petal lotus + dark ritual+ land + this card.... Only need 4 cards in your hands!
Marit-lage and Emrakul on the same turn seems fun
How much mana does Emrakul cost?
@attackoncardboard 13 for the mindslaver effect, 15 for the timewalk. So with the discount you just need 3 or 5 more mana
Not for modern but could build it into a black commander deck. With this and hexmage of course.
Using the new simic precon I got a marit Lage out turn 4, then got a 2nd one after the first died
I will be stacking my deck to do this
I was just talking to a guy on R about the sphinx/flash build. Too funny
we could also use the free mana for equipment that gives haste, trample, unblockable etc =D
Might actually be cool to cast something like God-Pharaoh's Statue (especially if you do some lotus petal dark ritual stuff to do this turn 1). Opponent wont even be able to plow your marit lage on their first turn anymore
Or Trinisphere since your main combo piece costs 3 anyway. Perhaps some games you just dark ritual into Trinisphere to buy yourself a boatload of time
Vampire Hexmage is probably just cleaner and still not as reliable as Thespian Stage but also casting an Eldrazi or something at least has some humour value to it.
I prefer the shifting woodland option from MH3 as well. Since copying a Dark Depths in your graveyard won't put the counters on it, it will just immediately make a 20/20 for 4 mana from a land slot.
If you're going that route you could just do Thespian's Stage or Versuva instead.
dark depths, lotus petal, dark ritual, mutated cultist, force of will and blue card turn 1
Throw in a card that brings two cards back from the library, one that deals direct damage to any target and this is just EVIL
I drafted dark depths and was able to summon merit leige just before dying.
I guess I should have mentioned from Cold Snap
Newest ulamog because of the ward. Indestructible is cool but swords and path still get by
gotta love uncounterable abilities
You can still counter it with a Stifle like spell, but they don't often see play in Commander
aw cmon! I wanna play Dark Depths XD
Great! Adding it to cube
The fact that this *still* isn't good enough for current legacy (pre-Dec 16 ban list) says a lot.
What commander you recommend for this build ?
Oh I was worried for a sec that there was an issue in a real format or somthing
the frustrating part is the card would have been perfectly fine if they said “nonland permanent” but the magic design team just doesn’t care to put effort in
Wait, this also hits experience counters, doesn't it? I think that's the first card that does so?
Mutated Cultist can remove your opponents experience counters!
Suncleanser
@@sorin_markov I didn't even know about this card. Very cool!
I don’t play legacy, is stifle or any stifle like effects legal?
Stifle is definitely legal in Legacy. If this combo becomes more apparent, Stifle play will certainly rise.
Stifle effects are legal, but weren't that commonly used outside of stifle-naught '2 mana 12/12 and Delver 'one mana monoblue land destruction'
Turn one dark depths turn two swamp play dark ritual then play mutation cultists then target dark depths there two turn 20/20 monster
It also has devoid, so the casting trigger can be copied by Echoes of Eternity and Ulalek, Fused Atrocity
Yup! But you'll need something else with a bunch of counters to make use of that second cultist trigger. Worth pointing out that Echos will trigger Dark Depth twice, but the tokens are Legendary 😅
@@attackoncardboard Now I’m trying to think of what the best secondary targets would be. Opponent’s counters are obviously good (I especially love the idea of draining your opponent’s Ulamog, the Defiler), or if you have poison counters, but it’s better to run your own guaranteed combos, typically. Similar to Dark Depths you could drain ice counters from Thing in the Ice, but I feel like draining age counters from cards with cumulative upkeep is another good way to go. I can’t find anything nearly as good as Dark Depths though, alas
Dont forget, you cant target yourself with Cultist!
@@attackoncardboard You’re right! My mistake
It’s strange to me that this card seemingly isn’t played in legacy dark depths, like I know they play vampire hexmage as their main counter remover on a creature but that still has to resolve and sac itself. Cultist being a cast trigger seems way better despite being 1 more mana
The thwomp sound lok
Stifle is definitely going to be used more
So you need a stifle or other stifle effects to stop this?
Correct
I would like to remind people that void mirror does exist. One sideboard can wreck this.
Void Mirror doesn't stop you from getting Marit Lage though
@@attackoncardboard ;) Path to Exile was already in the deck. With Void sideboard you say no free spell and Path the Marit Lage, you get a swamp.
@@anthonywolf943 ;) but I play Force of Will heheh... We can play the MTG "but I have this" game until the end of time.
@@attackoncardboard but that's the point of a side board
@@sablesalt What are you talking about? This is just primary school playground battles. "Well I'm invincible." "Well I have anti-invincible bullets." "Well I can move faster than bullets."...
There are counters for everything. Just because something has a counter doesn't make it bad. Remember how "Dies to removal" is suuuch a good argument against Sheoldred or (if youre old enough) Baneslayer Angel...
If you can put together one more red mana, just cast fireball X=20 and win
What are you removing 20 counters from?