In this clip, Dr. White pointed out the ungracious behavior that many Calvinists have on the Internet. Here is a PDF of Banner of Truth: www.monergism....
i am not a Calvinist and i am also turned off by their arrogance many times, but i SO SO SO appreciate that other Calvinists like Dr White notices this and is REBUKING his own!!!!!!!! well, praise GOD!!!
There are many who have learned the doctrines of grace, yet have no grace. There are unregenerate Calvinists. Claiming the label does not make you a true Christian.
Amen dude, I wouldn't blame any non-Calvinist Christians who reject Reformed Theology after witnessing the fruits of the ungodly of this so called Calvinist club.
What hurts my heart is that I remember my cage stage. It was brutal and praise God that it wasn’t even worse. I truly believe that God held me back in many situations from going even further in ripping people apart because of their ignorance of the sovereignty of God. I praise God that I’ve repented of my cage stage and have reconciled with all those I’ve hurt but imagine those who live in that cage stage for their entire lives. Man! To be a KJVO and a Cage stage calvinist, ppffff! That’s rough. God help them at the Calvinist Club!
Correct, head knowledge doesn't save because it's not ignorance Christ died to save us from. But Paul wasn't saying his Torah knowledge was useless, he was saying it wasn't something that would save. How do i know this? Because he was constantly using his Torah knowledge in his writing. Jesus constantly used his Torah knowledge when speaking with people and expected them to have Torah knowledge as well. The entire book of Hebrews is largely meaningless if you don't have Leviticus as your background. We are commanded to hide God's word in our heart, and meditate on it constantly.
Your mom who smokes two packs a day is still right to tell you not to copy her habit. James White can still say not to copy his example if he self reflects.
Truth be told, there are ungracious, mean-spirited, pharisaical, religious zealots in EVERY camp of Christianity, irrespective of their theological bent. Those of the Calvinistic sort (or more broadly the salvation by sovereign grace sort) are particularly puzzling. Given that their theology insists that they are saved "not by works of righteousness" done by them (Titus 3:5), the attitude of condescending, acerbic superiority they often display toward others is an enormous contradiction that reveals that they have yet to rightly understand the ramifications of grace as they ought. Simply put, there is a profitable space for correcting an erring brother in Christ (James 5:19-20), but untempered zealots are not known to occupy it.
The Pharisees add the doctrines of man and impose them on the Truth making it of none effect. The Pharisees claimed they obeyed God and yet they disobeyed God and taught others to do likewise all the while thinking they were pious. Jesus had a special distaste for such hypocrites. To say you love God and yet refuse to believe that the promise is to you and your seed you are like Abraham with Hagar instead of Sarah. Baptists refuse to believe that the promise is to them and their seed.
Non-Calvinists use the same arguments and insults atheists use against us. They even say that Calvinist God is Satan and that they would rather go to hell than serve such a God.
I wholeheartedly agree with brother Dr. James White here. Sadly, I use to be a stage cage Calvinist. I showed no love for those I was speaking to and I use to think and believe that if you were an Arminian then you were a heretic and therefore going to hell. During that time I was causing the enemies of God to blaspheme His holy name. I was a disgrace to our Lord Jesus Christ. I was doing nothing to glorify my Father in heaven and my Lord Jesus Christ and I was not doing anything to advance the kingdom of God. In essence, I was doing more for satan than I was doing for Jesus Christ my King! I am so thankful and thankful for the Holy Spirit and for His conviction of my sins against my Father in heaven. He showed me the errors of my ways. He showed me just how unloving I was and the harm I was causing. He reminded me about who I was before my King Christ Jesus came and rescued me and made me His. I am now a completely different person and now when I speak to people I do so out of agape love for my Lord Jesus Christ first and for those who I am speaking to.I can see and understand why so many who are not Calvinist think that we Calvinists are arrogant and unloving. I can see why there is so much hatred for those who are Calvinist and it is all because of what Dr. James White talks about here in this video. I too am ashamed of being a Calvinist for all the same reasons that Dr. James White talks about here in this video.
Thank you brother Zachary. I just finished praying for you. I also went through a tough cage stage. Praise the Lord I'm more gracious now! May you faithfully proclaim the gospel with boldness!
All of what James said is very true and sadly i have even witnessed ungracious behaviours and arrogance coming from young reformed teenager or young adults who are big fans of him and Apologia. I'm sure James would be against that as well :/
I've saved your video. It will sit beside a similar video by Paul Washer. Both of which I will watch from time to time when I begin to slide down this arrogant, unloving, slope. Glorify God, preaching to all Christ and Him crucified, and enjoy Him forever. Thank you Dr. White.
Just hope u don't end up in Hell beside Washer and White. They think their holy and righteous lives play a part in their salvation. That's false gospel and false conversion.
Chandler Keaton They do not believe that at all. You are bordering on slander of two faithful brothers in Christ. Though I do not wholly agree with Washer and White’s theology, they absolutely do not believe in works salvation. Washer for example has made it very clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and that works do not save BUT one who is saved will have a transformed life of repudiating sin and performing good work. Works do not save but you cannot say you are saved if your life hasn’t changed and you’re still living unrepentantly in sin.
According to your Calvinism .. your arrogance and unloving slope is ordained by God... Right? So how would you have the power and will to fix that if it's such an obvious characteristic of yours?
@Daniel Randall No you don't have to have a changed life. If that was a requirement ALL conversions that were followed by an immediate death would be null and void.
Whats Up That is not true. It is perfectly possible for someone to become born again and then die immediately. I would wager that this is rare, but definitely possible. However this does not negate the fact that when one is saved, one is fundamentally changed. You are not the same person after your conversion as you were before. Your life WILL change by necessity. It may happen at varying rates from person to person, and it make take slightly different forms, but change will be evident over time.
The truth is irrefutible. Whether you wish to call it Calvinism or not is up to you. Why as Humans do we need to make catagories in all things? Why do we hate each other simply because of different understandings of doctrine? The truth is simple, but whilst we fight amongst ourselves the Evil One is laughing at you all, and taking every opportunity to stir up anger and hatered in you all. Time to focus on your own salvation and judge no one. Only God can judge. Nobody other than God knows my life, and who I am. Therefore I need only to focus on God, the saving work of my saviour Yeshua, Iesous, Jesus, the Christ, and His gift of the Spirit that works within me. In Love, Truth, and Peace < Ken. John 6:44 King James Bible (KJV) 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Romans 3:11 King James Bible (KJV) 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Appreciated White's passion about those that claim to be Calvinists but have an attitude of arrogance that the Bible says believers shouldn't have based on the very grace that saved them.. Now does that mean all that embrace Calvinism act this way? Absolutely not. And to be frank, you can completely agree with the doctrines of grace because it is Biblical, not because it has a label on it. I would never call myself a Calvinist, but many times I am thrown in that camp because I agree with the core doctrines of salvation and God's sovereignty. After all, these doctrines were in the Bible before Calvin was ever born and even Calvin didn't event the acrostic TULIP. But I think it needs to be said that those on the anti-Calvinist side can also be just as mean-spirited and hateful; I've seen RUclips videos of pastors/preachers/teachers railing against their view on Calvinism with a view that it is heretical and demonic to the point where they villainize those that hold to these doctrines. So there are many in the anti-Calvinism club that feel that way as well. I know I've personally posted on this subject with other professed believers that have basically said I believe demonic doctrines, someone actually said I was a moron. The bottom line; if believers on both sides of this issue can't discuss the doctrines of the Bible to edify, encourage, and exhort one another, they need to back off, be prayerful, and examine their own hearts concerning the matter.
well James white is a hypocrite because he carries a banner of arrogance with him all the time in his debates, streams and radio talks. the man gloats about his credentials, #of debates, books he's written, all the time.... what good does his doctorate do for the Gospel... nothing.
Eric Smith They have no fruits of the spirit. Or they're having trouble and they must admit their carnal. "If we say we have no sin we lie to ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 In. 1:8
Ryan Gordon - Well the fact of the matter is that James White Liar has to begin to defend Calvinism because the good Lord is starting to wake people up to the truth of KJVism and more and more former Lordship people and Calvinsts are waking up realized they've been dooped. James White is just another politician who, in this video, has no choice but to defend Calvinism by disagreeing with his Calvinist "brothers". Because it's starting to stink and look like the lie it is based on..and is making him look bad too...so he's in it for himself. Lol! Know what's funny James White is like John Calvin's child and James White took over for Calvin. And all the other wittle baby Calvinist are being got on by old James White Daddy....how adorable. I bet he longs to breast feed his wittle Calvin babies. And I bet they want to suck his nipples right off!!
You might want to read Romans 9. Starting at 9:18. Anti Calvinist, reformed who object to the idea that God choses, elects, anoints, by His sovereign will. Your issues are addressed plainly by the Apostle Paul. He states plainly God chooses. You know that's exactly what 18 means because of the passages 19-20. Paul addresses the same, it's not fair! God wouldn't do that! of then and now. Passages 21-23, Paul explains how and why and 24 on, who are these called and chosen, details and history. And if God allows you. Luke 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. John1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His Name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but if God. Do a word search on elect, chosen, predestined etc; Read Ephesians, 1&2, loaded with God choosing.. Ephesians 1:4, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world... So many of these "preachers" on U-tube pick and chose passages from here and their, omitting anything that will contradict their bias. I made that mistake long ago of just listening to teachers until I began reading the whole Bible.
@@VernonChitlen Let me be blunt then. You're eisegeting a man-made systematic onto Romans 9. The idea that the interlocutor in Romans 9 is a first-century Arminian is absurd. He's arguing against a pharisaical Jew who things that he's chosen by God over the gentiles because it's his birthright. It's so ironic, yet sad, that Calvinists can't even perceive that they are repeating this same mistake.
I've noticed a lack of grace, arrogance and a ton of testosterone from certain internet Calvinists. Hopefully this message will calm some of them down. Peace.
But Calvinism is a club, Dr. White. The Cavinist interpretation of the Gospel is that it is an exclusive club, pre-chosen by God. I have respect for your theology in other areas, but railing against an interpretation that you embrace, and the box it builds around you, seems a bit disingenuous.
I also believe the bible teaches a Calvinistic position. As for our pride we all do it to each other. We believers love to tear the flesh off of our brothers and sisters in Christ for any differences real or perceived. Grace, what's that? I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and I'm all out of gum! If it's any consolation non believers do the same thing.
It's not a consolation at all, James, sadly. I actually see non-believers being more "brotherly" and bonded together in love than Christians. My worldly son's worldly friends are always there for him and always build him up and are always looking for the good in others (although they love to party and all that goes along with that). Nothing makes me question the validity of Christianity more than prideful, condescending, self-righteous Christians who are nasty and spiteful toward other Christians. Even just the lack of excitement/interest when seeing one another at church is off-putting. The world doesn't seem to struggle with that. If the love Jesus called us to is impossible, so is everything else.
I understand why Calvinists would struggle with pride. To think that God loves you more than he loves others is the very attitude the Jews of Jesus's day expressed. This along with Scripture, leads me to conclude Calvinism is false. Still, I love my Calvinist brothers.
Of course, I disagree. It appears to have been made up centuries after the time of Jesus and the Apostles. We could address specific issues if you wish, but the overall message of the Gospel is God is love, Jesus takes away the sin of the world, those who believe are saved. This flies in the face of the claims of Calvinism.
Eric Rogers just your opinion. I have read through Calvinist teaching and have studied scripture to back it up. I don't understand how the word of God can be made up. I'm just getting different views
Certainly. Your opinion is Calvinism is biblical and mine is that it isn't. Only the Scripture can decide. So let's go there. 2 Thes 2:10 "and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." Did they refuse because God decreed it (i.e. they weren't elect)?
See you miss understood. Calvinism use scripture, sola scriptura, the elect is a very tricky subject to wrap our heads around. Now with that being said, God will be God and chose who He will. Now with that being said, I am a tulip guy and I was only asking your opinion to see where you stand. From what I assume, you are a believer and I just wanted your stance on this issue. No arguments need to come from this.
"Get back in your cage!" Yeah! You tell those Calvinists Dr. White! JK JK Thanks for the message. Every group needs to hear this. Whatever happened to just being a basically decent human being?
Arrogance attitude can affect any doctrine, if I was of the freewill persuasion I would be arrogant for the following reasons, I was smarter than others for choosing the faith, or I am more righteous than others for choosing good over the evil. At the end believing in Christ was of my own doing with a little help of god. If you guys believe that faith was not granted to you, than you are more arrogant than the majority of Calvinists. And you truly do not understand the bad news to truly understand the good news the gospel. And very likely you still lost in your sins, angels of darkness portraying as Angels of Light.
Amen. And I feel the same way about the Bible Belt. We are in this country club mentality. The unregenerate hate the Church of the wrong reason. They see the wolves and the wolves bring shame upon the name of Christ.
"All my Father has GIVEN to me will come to me" .... "No one comes to me unless my FATHER draws him". Its hard to deny that The Lord God is choosing the saved. However there is a mystery in how we are saved, in our accountability to believe and God's Soverign election.
That verse is regarding Hearers and Lovers of God coming to Christ , the whole chapter being read eliminates God haters and betrayers and unbelievers from coming as their own Unbelief stops them !
There is nothing wrong the doctrine of grace . The problem is that the people that follow the doctrine is still suffering sin like the rest of other Christians that follow there own choice doctrine. A true Christian recognizes that sin . A non-Christian pretty much don’t care .
"There's to many judgmental Christians without love and grace." ----------What if an atheist is hearing apologetics from loveless Christians? Is there biblical justifcation to turn away on the grounds that the absence of love is a critical system failure? Or does the bible require unbelievers to endure loveless Christians on the grounds that the Holy Spirit can use even correct arguments from loveless Christians?
J C Just don't fall into the arminian doctrine lie, where "good works or in other word your faithfulness" keeps you saved, that's a lie from hell,understand that faithfulness is for sanctification and you'll be alright. Read Galatians chapter 3 all of it, it is an Arminian repellant.
being a woman, you fall under the authority of your father or your husband assuming they are believers. Other men ought not attempt to minister you in most context. I would advise to seek their leadership
William, that's not what headship means. We are all called to follow the teachings of the elders of the church, and in Christ there is neither male nor female. Headship means that, yes, a daughter submits to her father and a wife submits to her husband, but it doesn't mean that she never, ever listens to anybody else ever about anything. Women get to hear the sermon, too. Women get to do their homework and watch RUclips videos, too. Women are to be loved, esteemed, and respected as co-heirs with men in Christ (1 Peter 3:7). 2 Peter 1 commands ALL believers to supplement their faith with virtue and virtue with knowledge. Let her study, and let the Spirit of God lead her to a right conclusion of the Word (1 Corinthians 2). Elsewise, you are the one causing the little children to stumble, and Christ was clear about how that person's fate compares to drowning (Matthew 18:6).
J C, keep seeking after Him. :) The beauty of biblical soteriology (what's commonly called "Calvinism") is that it reminds us that the only reason anyone seeks after God is because God first drew them and that once God draws a person, there is absolutely nothing that can possibly get in the way of Him. "If God is for us, who can be against us?" (Rom 8:31) If you love Him, then it's because He first loved you (1 John 4:19), and nothing will get in the way of that. Take heart. The Bible is very reassuring for those who love Christ. :)
How ironic that when James White said (at 2:30), "I find it grossly inconsistent that those who claim to embrace this theology could at the same time be arrogant, ungracious, unloving, unkind, and constantly drawing their swords and lopping people's Armenian ears off...", he could have been describing the greatest of all Calvinists, John Calvin, who justified not just proverbial murder, but the actual murder of his theological opponents!
One can agree with a person's analysis on soteriology without agreeing with what that person may have done in their personal life. There were a lot of disgusting character flaws in many of the people in the early years of the Reformation in every camp, as there are with people nowadays as well, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater; to do so is to attack a strawman. I would vastly disagree with Calvin justifying murder of any sort for any reason (and I'm certain that Dr. White would agree on that point), but just because I might agree with how he viewed salvation doesn't mean I would condone any or all of his other beliefs. None of us should blindly follow a leader or a theologian, we should follow Christ.
CanuckGod i absolutely agree that we ought not throw the baby out with the bathwater, but the ironic thing is that the one who codified the five points of doctrine of salvation as James White adheres to and promotes, agreed with the slaughter of others over doctrinal disagreements (i.e. John Calvin). So for James to be aghast at Calvinists who "kill" with their tongues is sadly ironic. Why do you think it is that when staunch Reformers/Calvinists or Roman Catholics (RCs) rule a country that the killing of their detractors becomes acceptable? Could it be that their emphasis on correct doctrine as opposed to correct living and Christ-like character is to blame? I believe so. To get a good glimpse of what Reformers/RCs did to the non-resistant, love-your-enemy Anabaptists, check out a book called Martyrs Mirror.
Redeemed, You name Calvin and murder in one sentence, if you mean Servet with that, that wasn't murder. Calvin was trown out of the city himself for example so he was not a dictator. Geneva was a safe haven for Calvin but Servet meant it's reputation to plummet to haven for any heretic. Thus they set a harsh example and Calvin pleaded a 'softer' punishment that was denied.
Calvin endorsing the execution of Michael Servetus on theological grounds wasn't murder? Let's let Calvin speak for himself in regards to Servetus: February 13, 1546 (seven years prior to Servetus' arrest) went on record as saying: "If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight." Letter of August 20, 1553, one week after Servetus' arrest. "I hope that Servetus will be condemned to death." Another quote "Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed." Letter to the Marquis Paet, chamberlain to the King of Navarre, 1561. "[Anabaptists and others] ...such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard." [CORRECTION: Eskon2 has pointed out below that this particular is suspected to be a forgery." If after reading Calvin's own hatred of Servetus and other Christians of different theological you still don't consider him a murderer, you are just as lost as Calvin in this regard. Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said to the ancients, 'You shall not kill,' and whoever kills will be liable to the judgment. But I say to you that whoever gets angry with his brother without cause will be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Empty-head!' will be liable to the council. But whoever says, ' fool!' will be liable to the fiery hell. (Mat 5:21-22)
Redeemed52597, Calvin wrote the institutio and presented it to the French king. Calvin's thinking was to accept the authority set among man after that of God as can be found in the bible. Servetus was tried for heresy witch was proven to be correct. Calvin was legaly coerced into giving away Servetus alias Villaneuve. Servetusescaped prison after being sentenced elsewhere. Calvin, Melanchton and Servetus all believed that heresy ought to be punished this way. The bible also says the government wears the sword. Basicly your asking of Calvin to lie witch is forbidden as well. But all you did was state your own most condemning facts, you failed to deal with my initial arguments, thus failing to make the case for murder instead of killing. But are those quotes real? www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2017/08/john-calvin-vs-servetus-james-swan-misses-forest-trees.html The first 2 blue pieces of text are the correct quotes and explain a lot more. In the end Calvin was the one who tried Servetus o recant and was the one who tried to mitigate the punishment.
I went to a VERY Calvinist/Reformed Church. Nearly every sermon had at least one attack on the "Arminian/Easy Believism/Seeker Sensitive/Luke Warm Church." Eventually I had a chip on my shoulder for Arminians, yet I could not articulate the Gospel. Not that the my pastor didn't know it. He just assumed everyone in the church (I was baby Christian) already understood it and so he was focused on "the meat" of the Bible. It was when I, by accident, read a short presentation of the Gospel on-line that I realized I never knew it. I brought this to my pastors attention and he started tying each sermon to the Gospel, at least at the end. But it was too late because I had been trained in the "art of war..." specifically, how to use apologetics to destroy Arminians. And that "demon was in deep." But I get it... Arminianism leads to the Prosperity Gospel and a hundred other crazy ideas. The problem is, my pastors first priorities should have been my discipleship, sanctification, and teaching me how to love God and my neighbor and share the Gospel in the context of my testimony. Instead, the 5 Points where drummed into my head (BEFORE THE GOSPEL!!!). I know this experience of putting the cart before the horse is repeated in many Calvinist and/or Reformed Churches in America. It's not that the doctrine is wrong, it's a simple matter of WRONG PRIORITIES, and when you have an apologetics pod cast (James) which spends most of it's time railing against the Arminians, you are feeding into this tragedy. I don't watch a lot of your stuff, but how much do you balance "the milk" with "the meat?" Because there are a lot of Baby Christians listening to you when they really should be focused on other issues of faith, as well as, "Christian cowards" are tuning in, who would rather prepare for an argument with another brother than prepared for an uncomfortable encounter with a non-believer who they will have to share their testimony with. The reality is (takes one to know one) it's easier to try and pass yourself off as a lion, than to truly be a lamb.
If Calvinists seem Unloving then they're accurately representing Calvinism. Jesus says we're to forgive everyone of their trespasses. But according to Calvinism God is not willing to forgive everyone of their trespasses. Is Jesus more loving than God? Well no. Jesus is God so how could he be more loving than himself? Jesus is willing to forgive all. The Bible teaches to forgive all. None of us are righteous. And yet Calvinism teaches that God is not even willing to forgive all. The Bible teaches God would save whoever calls upon him to save them. Calvinism teaches that God doesn't want to save everyone. And that it is God's will that most people will go to hell. If Calvinists seem unloving it's because they're following the teachings of Calvinism and not the Bible.
So great an exposition of Calvinism, untill you wake up to the reality that the quotes are missing. You should convert to Calvinism then you have proof that Calvinist type this kind of nonsense.
Eskon2 If Grace is Irresistible, then all who receive it will obey. If grace is given to everyone, then the only logical conclusion while holding to the first premise is universalism, which is not biblical. So you as a Calvinist must accept either universalism, or that God does not desire all to be saved. (Or else they would be)
Martialimitator, We're like a cow who kicks back against a sharp point. The self righteous God does not desire to save, neither the devils. It's obvious Calvinism is not universalistic. Yet God might want everyone to be saved but before enacting it's own will, He allows our will freedom, all to His eternal glory. If God let His will dominate, there would be no freee will and no sinfull man at all.
I have been taken aback by the nastiness of Calvinists who choose insulting put-downs rather than calmly discussing their position. They display an arrogance and sense of superiority and refuse to take on board legitimate questioning of their position by fellow Christians.
Agape, It's a stream of tought, to explain your position, so i'm protestant reformed and Calvinistic, But i also read the works of Luther and certain Anglicans.
I don't know of any 'Calvin' denominations, but I know several 'Reformed' denominations. 'Calvinism' was a term of the opposition and it is still most often used by those opposed to it. It's a bit like the older sibling asking why the younger keeps hitting themselves.
Dear James, the 5 points if calvinism humbled me to the ground before God. I can’t understand the contradiction of an arrogant Calvinist. I have recently come to embrace the reformed theology, thanks to Paul Washer and you. Your debates out my world upside down, after years of ministry in the missionary field. Thank you for the PDF, I’ll start tomorrow. 10 times over? Ni problem! Thanks!
" I can’t understand the contradiction of an arrogant Calvinist." -----------Yes you can: If a Calvinist engages in the sin of arrogance, Calvinist theology would require that this is because God infallibly predestined him from all eternity to engage in such sin.
Sometimes I get frustrated at it too. Although I am elected, I cannot help but see the arrogance that this thinking sometimes seems to brood. I am often embarrassed by my brethren, It has caused me to refrain from this debate altogether.
Reformed or Calvinist theology teaches that regeneration precedes faith. God acts and man responds. Arminian theology teaches that faith precedes regeneration. Man acts and God responds. The two are mutually exclusive and can never be compromised. You don't need to have a doctorate in theology to know which one the Bible teaches. It screams at you from almost every page. Man was dead in trespasses and sins and God had to act.
Peter Jansen You clearly don't know what you're criticizing, because that's not at all what Arminianism teaches. Are you familiar with the term "prevenient grace," and do you know what it means?
James White is one of the most unkind, critical people I've heard in any discussion of the Bible. Maybe he should work on those logs in his eyes before coming down on those who've apparently learned acceptable behavior from him.
@@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns I think you're conflating negative with being a realist and being honest. I've followed James White's sermons, radio shows, debates etc for years now and sure, he can be a pretty tough guy and occasionally a tad condescending and arrogant but usually when he's behaving this way (and you're not quoting him out of context or anything) it's for a pretty damn good reason...the state of Christianity today is sorry state of affairs That and he's only human, it's unbecoming to just sit here and nitpick his minor flaws when I'm sure you have plenty of your own. Maybe examine yourself before pointing the finger. This man has done great works for God and promoting the gospel of our Lord. Probably greater than any contemporary apologist. Even if you don't like him or his theology, he at least deserves your utmost respect. Oh, and you want to see unkind, negative and so forth? Really, you want to see that? Please, sit through a few of his his debates with Catholic 'apologists.'
@@skippy8696 I'm not conflating those things. Yes, I agree that White is often misunderstood and *wrongly* called a jerk. That happens. But so do the more negative moments.
I agree that a Calvinist (or Sovereign Grace Christian) should be gracious in the presentation of Gospel Truth. There is no need to be nasty or mean in most instances. There are those occasions, however, when a more forceful tact should be taken. In the face of sheer and utter heresy, the truth should be shared boldly and without compromise. After all, I'm pretty confident that Galatians was not a mushy friendly letter in the ears of the false teachers Paul confronted.
I am a Wesleyan/Arminian Pastor and I just want to thank you for your message here. Yes, there are many things we disagree on, but we totally agree on the fundamentals of the faith. I have heard so many bad things regarding you that it sparked my interest. Thank you for this. It meant more to me than you know!
God disciplined you for doing something He infallibly predestined you to do? Why would God punish you if you were perfectly fulfilling his hidden will?
Appreciate your heart on this, sir. And I also appreciate you helping to clarify some of these doctrines for me, and believe you did it as a glory to God and not Calvin.
Internet Calvinists: Exactly what Doctor White is criticizing here. Real-Life Calvinists: Literally the nicest Protestants I've met, have been so very helpful to me in my journey. Daily Reminder there's a reason these people are Terminally Online. It's because they'd get slapped in public and can't fight.
Thank you brother White for speaking out on a growing problem on Facebook comments in Calvanist groups.I have read such atrocious comments...we are the body of Christ and if we cannot show grace,how will anyone understand grace?
As ironic as it may seem, I never would have taken to studying the doctrines of grace, (and subsequently being convinced of their truth), had it not been for the aggressive and confrontational approach of certain "Calvinists" that I've encountered. I used to hold tenaciously to all of the classic "free will" arguments. If it hadn't been for people offending me with sovereign grace teachings, I never would have given them a second thought. That may have nothing to do with the context of this video, though.
Justin Reed I think your ending sentence is spot on! I think your experience is an example of Romans 8:28 but the over arching question is, “is verbal aggression the model that Jesus intended us to follow?” . Not being a Calvinist I have benefited from so many of the conversations I’ve had with my Calvinist friends. But the all to common arrogant attitude that accompanies them lacks grace or compassion toward anyone beneath them. I think of Jesus healing the woman who asked for the crumbs off the table and I can’t imagine many calvinists searching for an opportunity to do the same thing with non-Calvinists. Sadly. They would however be first or even initiate intellectual arguments with the lady to prove where she should change her ways. I have love for my Calvinist friends and think the pursuit of this debate is a life altering reality. So many of us sincerely want to honor Jesus in the best way we can and this hasn’t been resolved yet because it’s a truly difficult concept. May God continue to give us all grace as we dive more into his Word and work to interpret the scriptures rightly!
" I never would have taken to studying the doctrines of grace, (and subsequently being convinced of their truth), had it not been for the aggressive and confrontational approach of certain "Calvinists" that I've encountered" -----------While it might be reasonable to say God used their sin to work good in your own life, it would be just as reasonable to argue that because the consequences were morally good, the act producing them (aggressive Calvinism) was morally good.
The majority of people I have encountered who call themselves Calvinists seem very angry about nearly everything. Might I suggest that we all read 1 Corinthians 3? We are not called to follow people. We are called to follow Christ.
This is the part where White is supposed to remember something - "You will know them by their fruits." Can't get good fruit out of a bad tree; can't get good fruit out of Calvinism.
Deluded about the trinity, We are all from the family tree of Adam and have fallen. If you don't smoke you could still die of lungcancer, still not a good thing to go smoke.
MacArthur is a Calvinist and as such he prioresses reason,logic,intellect and knowledge (theology based).If you go to a Calvinist church, like the Southern Baptist denomination , you will notice that they have a full knowledge of the gospel but at the same time they take a fraction of their worship time to praise the LORD and for prayer!.I don't envision a S.Baptist christian as the prayer/praise type.If you invite them to a 2 hours praise the LORD and prayer worship I don't think they would accept your invitation.None the less I consider Calvinists as my brothers in Christ and respect their views as well, who am I to judge the way my brother serves his Master (Jesus Christ our LORD?.He stand for his Master and if he falls his Master will lift him up again!.Hallelujah!
Several years ago in a very popular Christian-themed forum, a Calvinist boasted that he would have "Turkey Servetus" for Thanksgiving dinner, and he wondered what wine went best with "heretic". Such a sick joke for anyone claiming the name of Christ! I'm glad to see a prominent Calvinist own up to the sort of behavior his community has devolved into. I hope someday he also owns up to the numerous fallacies he used in the Hunt-White debate, and the ill will that he himself has fostered over the years against Arminians.
As a five point calvinist myself, i see this to be very true. This assessment is 100% correct. What i love about calvinism is that it essentially forces you to be merciful. Everything is from the hand of God.
I think there are arrogant people in every denomination. A Calvinist should by nature forever be humbled, since it is God who by grace alone saved you. Most Christians I know lean towards Calvinism, in the sense that God had to convinced you you’re a sinner, and that you cannot lose your salvation, for God’s gifts cannot be revoked. Hardcore Calvinists, however, tend to be too technical. But arrogance doesn’t necessarily have to do with your belief system, but with the fact that you’re the only one who’s got the right doctrine. Those people exist in every group!!!
First of I would like to say I love ALL you calvinists out there and not just some of you but ALL of you, as well as every one else out there in the world. I can only truly love anyone by the love and strength GIVEN through Jesus Christ and the example that Jesus Christ has given ALL mankind. Peace be unto you ALL Israelite born or not and other words who are Jews or a Jew inwardly, everyone else. All Glory and thanks and love and power be to the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. • (Hosea 4:6 K.J.V My people are DESTROYED for lack of knowledge: because thou hast 👉REJECTED knowledge👈, 👉I will also reject thee👈, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing THOU hast FORGOTTEN the law of thy God, I WILL also FORGET thy children. • Hosea 4:6) • (Isaiah 28:9-11 K.J.V Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. • For 👉PRECEPT MUST👈 be upon PRECEPT, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: • For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. • Isaiah 28:9-11) There are many Holy Scriptures that disproves all 5 points of Calvinism called t.u.i.p. I'm going to be showing with the Holy Scriptures how the (“t”) and the (“i”) in t.u.l.i.p are 100% FALSE teaching by the Holy Scriptures. First what is total inability or total depravity, as well as irresistible Grace theses are the (“t”) and the Im (“i”) in t.u.i.l.p. T = TOTAL INABILITY a.k.a T = Total Depravity - Is the Calvinism teaching that ALL MANKIND are dead and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL, because ALL & EVERYONE has a heart of stone when born because of God caused Eve & Adam to sin. This is according to calvinism. Total inability a.k.a total depravity is 100% false teaching according to the Holy scriptures. Oh all Calvinists use (Ezekiel 36:26 K.J.V) as a proof text). Keep this verse in mind. L = LIMITED ATONEMENT- Is a Calvinism teaching that Christ died only for ALL the elect, Christ didn't die for ALL the non-elect, so ALL the non-elect remain Total depravity and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL because they have a heart of stone. Limited atonement is 100% false teaching according to the Holy scriptures. So now the Holy Scriptures: • (Hebrews 2:9 K.J.V • But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should TASTE death for EVERY MAN. • Hebrews 2:9) It’s appoint for all mankind to die once. • (Hebrews 9:27-28 K.J.V And as it is 👉APPOINTED unto men ONCE to DIE👈, but after this the judgment: • So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time WITHOUT sin unto SALVATION. • Hebrews 9:27-28) So total depravity and limited atonement together you have ALL the elect who had a heart of stone and now has a heart of flesh, ALL the non-elect has a heart of STONE and are dead and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL. So total depravity & limited atonement are 100% false for the simple fact that (Romans 14:12 K.J.V) is in the Holy Scriptures as well as others. • (Romans 14:12 K.J.V So then 👉EVERY ONE👈 of us shall GIVE ACCOUNT of himself to God. • Romans 14:12) Here is how total depravity & limited atonement are 100% false for the simple fact that (Romans 14:12 K.J.V): Question calvinists: How is the non-elect going to GIVE ACCOUNT of himself to God. If ALL the non-elect have a (heart of stone) and 100% cannot do anything they have a heart of stone remember. So the teaching of total depravity and limited atonement makes (Romans 14:12 K.J.V) a 100% lie according to the Calvinism teachings because NOT EVERY ONE will give an account of himself to God if ALL the non-elect Have a heart of stone and 100% can't do anything nothing at ALL, is making God and God's word a lie. • (Romans 14:12 K.J.V So then 👉EVERY ONE👈 of us shall GIVE ACCOUNT of himself to God. • Romans 14:12) Lets look at another verses (Revelation 22:12 K.J.V). • Revelation 22:12 K.J.V • And, behold, I come quickly; and my REWARD is with me, to give EVERY MAN according as his work shall be. • Revelation 22:12 So if ALL the non-elect are have a heart of stone and are dead and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL, then how are ALL the non-elect And 100% cannot give an account of themselves to God how can God reward them according to their work, if God cannot reward them according to there work then (Revelation 22:12 K.J.V) it says EVERY MAN is a lie according to calvinism, in doinf so making God and God's word a lie. So calvinist's is God a liar and God's word a lie OR is Calvinism a lie and false teaching? (I Rich J Rio) Do hereby testify God to be Infinity times infinity percent true as well God’s word. • Romans 3:4 K.J.V God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. • Romans 3:4 As for calvinism and the calvinism teachings (I Rich J Rio) Do hereby testify Calvinism defined as t.u.l.i.p as the teachings of Calvinism to be Infinity times infinity percent wrong and false teaching according to God and God's word. • Isaiah 8:20 K.J.V To the law and to the testimony: if they speak NOT ACCORDING to this word, it is because there is no light in them. • Isaiah 8:20
"TR" stands for "truly reformed"?? NO! NOOoooooooooOOO! It stands for TEXTUS RECEPTUS. How very much James White hates that one Bible that is not malleable.
Augustine was not a Saint , he was a Babylonian Manichean Fatalist ! To understand that is your first step out of Romes Council of Orange > TD ! Isaiah rebuked Babylonian Manichean Destiny and Fatalism way before Christ died for the sins of the world < ALL HUMANITY :) , that Whosoever :) > WHO :) SO :) EVER :) > believeth not perish !
Aww...Daddy White is all upset that not all Calvinists bow to His desires. Snowflake much, James? Exactly what did Daddy White expect from the Pride of The Elect? Humility? LOLZ Now it's Calvinists Vs Calvinists. Even Atheists don't argue with other Atheists as to "which brand of atheism is the right brand?" Apparently the lord's guidance is rapidly failing.
from a Muslim fan of Dr. White, I think this message should be heard by many Christians of all sects and Muslims of all sects, the purpose of religion is guidance. Its strange when a religious person acts contrary to his religious teachings and repulsive.
Haven't seen the Babylon Bee making fun of how arrogant the Provisionists and Armenians lately. Only the Calvinist Club. You will know them by their fruit.
Typical calvinist video, but to clearify: clubs are gatherings of people who wants to participate in its activity! They will financially, morally and free willingly support there Club! Calvinists, Reformed, Five Pointers, 3-4 pointers, or how ever they called themself are not a Club. Calvinist are not like that as you see in video: Pressure is high and intensive on the individual, almost to the breaking point. IT IS HARD to stick with the dogma and please all the participants in this kind of "club". Distancing yourself from the rest or some of the rest is a dangerous game...
I've watched, listened to, and read a ton of James White over the past ten years of my own walk with Christ Jesus. Far more often than not, Mr. White comes across as arrogant, proud, and superior whenever speaking of anything or to anyone who disagrees with him, Protestant or Catholic. This attitude is what turned me off about Calvinism before I even really understood what it was. I knew that Jesus and Paul warned us against this very lack of charity and humbleness. Of course what I just said about Mr. White is completely my subjective observation, I am not judging the man nor his interior disposition. I just don't find his method helpful and, moreover, in all of these modern calvanists I can't helping thinking that they, almost to a man, lack any sense of joy and wonder. The guys at Apologia Studios sit at their table with their beards and hipster clothing/ haircuts and look like a pretend "Sons of Anarchy" motorcycle club spinoff debating in all the "rivals" they wanna embarrass or take on next. These Christians compete with the modern fads until they become the modern fads... Determinism is an error. It's an error because it means we aren't even free to say Thank you, Bless you, or ultimately, even I love you. We didn't worship doctrines of exegesis methods. We worship God. Let us never forget that. Peace of Christ brothers and sisters.
A club? No, it is the gospel of grace. Truly! If you were truly a Calvinist, you would not at all be a Baptist. So, yeah, I can see that you are getting tired of it. As a Baptist, you are antithetical to it and 5 points do not make you a Calvinist. You know, the Word God is a two edged sword. If you find it distasteful, then just proclaim yourself as a covenant breaking hypocrite. Be honest and disavow yourself of Covenant theology by the Baptist's taking the name of the Triune God in vain at baptism because it is to you and your household. Thank you!
Amen Dr. White. I recommend a sermon called, "True grace distinguished by the experience of devils." by J. Edwards. If we do things outside of the love of Christ, we are not true Christians. Even if we are solid in our theology.
I am not a Calvinist. But i do believe that when it says God harden the heart of Pharaoh He did just that. When the Bible said that God sent, I believe it was an evil spirit to torment King Saul, God did just that. Jesus said that those who endure to the end will be saved, and Paul encourage other to continue to run the race, it implies choice. I believe both camps are trying to understand God. that is why I am thankful for the Calvinist who recognize Arminians as fellow Christians because of the fact that we are justified by faith in Christ.
Well said James. A lot of keyboard warriors who have become smug by the sounds of it. If Calvinism doesn't engender humility in us something is very wrong.
Why would anyone call themselves a Calvinist ? Calvin was involved in the death's of over 50 believers because they didn't believe in his theology. Many of those were burned at the stake. Judge a man by his fruit's.
LOL Is this guy ever in a good mood? Always cranky, pissy, negative etc. Having said that, this is actually a good video and I largely agree with him here.
Guys, just read that booklet as dr. White suggested, read it 10 times over before arguing on the doctrines of grace. It should resonate with a truly regenerated heart and have a positive influence on your personal life and ministry.
But if God is as sovereign as Calvinism says, then the ultimate reason any Calvinist uses Calvinism to brutalize other Christians is because God infallibly predestined him to do so.
Who cares about Calvin or Calvinists. Just fallow Jesus and his word. This reminds me of where Paul says. One fallows this one or that one. Is Christ divided. ?
I completely believe in what White says here. Many Reformed believers sicken me in their arrogance. I have been a Calvinist for forty years, yet am so often turned off by what I hear and see.
spot on. i believe in what the bible says so theologically I fall into Calvanist thought and agreement but I cant stand poor manners either. there is a way to explain ones belief without insulting others. There are ways to defend ones beliefs and maintain manners and decorum.
You do it because you are unable or unwilling to to perceive the incoherence of Calvinism, or because that very incoherence offers an air of intellectual sophistication that you covet.
Thank you James White, for clearly stating what I have thought for many years now...l distanced myself from ‘The Calvinist Club’ sometime ago, unable to reconcile the arrogance of so many bloggers with the humility that is the obvious response to first learning the Truth of scripture...how one can feel ‘proud ‘ about being the recipient of God’s monergistic choice is beyond my comprehension...God bless you and God bless Jeff Durbin...
"how one can feel ‘proud ‘ about being the recipient of God’s monergistic choice is beyond my comprehension" -------------not at all. If a Calvinist is proud about being the recipient of God monergistic choice, Calvinist theology demands that the reason is because God infallibly predestined him to become prideful.
Calvinism makes me sick also. When you read what calvinist parents are teaching their children you would be sick too! Just listen to this accurate Calvinist night time story to little Johnny. Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. But it gets even worse with what they sing! "Jesus loves me, this I know. As for you, I don't think so. Only some to Him belong. We are right and you are wrong. Yes, Jesus loves me! Yes, Jesus loves me! Yes, Jesus loves me! But I hope this isn't effervescent grace that I'm walking in and instead I'm actually deceived and one of the reprobates that He created to burn as a candle for His glory in Hell forever." If the above doesn't make you sick to your stomach nothing will. I presented the lies of calvinism unvarnished and clearly. Calvinism is not Christianity, it is apposed to The Good News gospel to man kind. TRUTH IN LOVE
We do have an idea who is predestinated and who is not. John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
First of all, I like James White. I think he is pretty intelligent. I am still learning about theology and trying to find out what I believe. Secondly, he reminds me of David letterman 1:29 when I see his teeth.
i am not a Calvinist and i am also turned off by their arrogance many times, but i SO SO SO appreciate that other Calvinists like Dr White notices this and is REBUKING his own!!!!!!!! well, praise GOD!!!
There are many who have learned the doctrines of grace, yet have no grace.
There are unregenerate Calvinists. Claiming the label does not make you a true Christian.
Charles John bam
No doubt. No doctrine saves, only Jesus does. I have been insulted by numerous Arminians, and told I'm not a Christian by almost all of them.
Amen dude, I wouldn't blame any non-Calvinist Christians who reject Reformed Theology after witnessing the fruits of the ungodly of this so called Calvinist club.
Calvinists are not Christian.
thank you, i have no need to rebuttal
When Calvin has become more important than Jesus, it's idolotry!!!
Richard Alkire Amen, this is what I've been thinking too about the whole Calvinism vs. Arminianism craze
true
Richard Alkire AMEN!!
So many of these people kneel at the altar of John Calvin!! And it is idolatry!! John Calvin was just a man!!
What hurts my heart is that I remember my cage stage. It was brutal and praise God that it wasn’t even worse. I truly believe that God held me back in many situations from going even further in ripping people apart because of their ignorance of the sovereignty of God. I praise God that I’ve repented of my cage stage and have reconciled with all those I’ve hurt but imagine those who live in that cage stage for their entire lives. Man! To be a KJVO and a Cage stage calvinist, ppffff! That’s rough. God help them at the Calvinist Club!
I sometimes think it would be more profitable to just read the Bible and thank the Lord Jesus for saving us than try to figure it all out.
Michael NewZealand Amen Brother.
God wouldn't have included it if he didn't want you to study it.
Paul called all of his Torah knowledge dross. We are not saved by head knowledge and those that go to any Bible School are worse off for it.
I agree - Jesus Christ said - “ let the kids come !”
Correct, head knowledge doesn't save because it's not ignorance Christ died to save us from. But Paul wasn't saying his Torah knowledge was useless, he was saying it wasn't something that would save. How do i know this? Because he was constantly using his Torah knowledge in his writing. Jesus constantly used his Torah knowledge when speaking with people and expected them to have Torah knowledge as well. The entire book of Hebrews is largely meaningless if you don't have Leviticus as your background. We are commanded to hide God's word in our heart, and meditate on it constantly.
James White is the pot calling the kettle black. He is one of the nastier people within Christianity, and he has the audacity to correct others.
Are u trashing him for trashing others?
Your mom who smokes two packs a day is still right to tell you not to copy her habit. James White can still say not to copy his example if he self reflects.
Truth be told, there are ungracious, mean-spirited, pharisaical, religious zealots in EVERY camp of Christianity, irrespective of their theological bent. Those of the Calvinistic sort (or more broadly the salvation by sovereign grace sort) are particularly puzzling. Given that their theology insists that they are saved "not by works of righteousness" done by them (Titus 3:5), the attitude of condescending, acerbic superiority they often display toward others is an enormous contradiction that reveals that they have yet to rightly understand the ramifications of grace as they ought.
Simply put, there is a profitable space for correcting an erring brother in Christ (James 5:19-20), but untempered zealots are not known to occupy it.
The Pharisees add the doctrines of man and impose them on the Truth making it of none effect. The Pharisees claimed they obeyed God and yet they disobeyed God and taught others to do likewise all the while thinking they were pious. Jesus had a special distaste for such hypocrites. To say you love God and yet refuse to believe that the promise is to you and your seed you are like Abraham with Hagar instead of Sarah. Baptists refuse to believe that the promise is to them and their seed.
Non-Calvinists use the same arguments and insults atheists use against us. They even say that Calvinist God is Satan and that they would rather go to hell than serve such a God.
I'm a former calvinist and don't believe it at all, yet still love brother James ... and totally appreciate this rebuke.
I wholeheartedly agree with brother Dr. James White here. Sadly, I use to be a stage cage Calvinist. I showed no love for those I was speaking to and I use to think and believe that if you were an Arminian then you were a heretic and therefore going to hell. During that time I was causing the enemies of God to blaspheme His holy name. I was a disgrace to our Lord Jesus Christ. I was doing nothing to glorify my Father in heaven and my Lord Jesus Christ and I was not doing anything to advance the kingdom of God. In essence, I was doing more for satan than I was doing for Jesus Christ my King! I am so thankful and thankful for the Holy Spirit and for His conviction of my sins against my Father in heaven. He showed me the errors of my ways. He showed me just how unloving I was and the harm I was causing. He reminded me about who I was before my King Christ Jesus came and rescued me and made me His. I am now a completely different person and now when I speak to people I do so out of agape love for my Lord Jesus Christ first and for those who I am speaking to.I can see and understand why so many who are not Calvinist think that we Calvinists are arrogant and unloving. I can see why there is so much hatred for those who are Calvinist and it is all because of what Dr. James White talks about here in this video. I too am ashamed of being a Calvinist for all the same reasons that Dr. James White talks about here in this video.
Thank you brother Zachary. I just finished praying for you. I also went through a tough cage stage. Praise the Lord I'm more gracious now! May you faithfully proclaim the gospel with boldness!
This is fantastic. Thank you for writing this.
So, the Armenians were doctrinal heretics and you were a moral heretic.
All of what James said is very true and sadly i have even witnessed ungracious behaviours and arrogance coming from young reformed teenager or young adults who are big fans of him and Apologia. I'm sure James would be against that as well :/
I've saved your video. It will sit beside a similar video by Paul Washer. Both of which I will watch from time to time when I begin to slide down this arrogant, unloving, slope. Glorify God, preaching to all Christ and Him crucified, and enjoy Him forever. Thank you Dr. White.
Just hope u don't end up in Hell beside Washer and White. They think their holy and righteous lives play a part in their salvation. That's false gospel and false conversion.
Chandler Keaton
They do not believe that at all. You are bordering on slander of two faithful brothers in Christ. Though I do not wholly agree with Washer and White’s theology, they absolutely do not believe in works salvation. Washer for example has made it very clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and that works do not save BUT one who is saved will have a transformed life of repudiating sin and performing good work. Works do not save but you cannot say you are saved if your life hasn’t changed and you’re still living unrepentantly in sin.
According to your Calvinism .. your arrogance and unloving slope is ordained by God... Right? So how would you have the power and will to fix that if it's such an obvious characteristic of yours?
@Daniel Randall No you don't have to have a changed life. If that was a requirement ALL conversions that were followed by an immediate death would be null and void.
Whats Up
That is not true. It is perfectly possible for someone to become born again and then die immediately. I would wager that this is rare, but definitely possible. However this does not negate the fact that when one is saved, one is fundamentally changed. You are not the same person after your conversion as you were before. Your life WILL change by necessity. It may happen at varying rates from person to person, and it make take slightly different forms, but change will be evident over time.
The truth is irrefutible. Whether you wish to call it Calvinism or not
is up to you. Why as Humans do we need to make catagories in all things?
Why do we hate each other simply because of different understandings of
doctrine? The truth is simple, but whilst we fight amongst ourselves
the Evil One is laughing at you all, and taking every opportunity to
stir up anger and hatered in you all. Time to focus on your own
salvation and judge no one. Only God can judge. Nobody other than God
knows my life, and who I am. Therefore I need only to focus on God, the
saving work of my saviour Yeshua, Iesous, Jesus, the Christ, and His
gift of the Spirit that works within me. In Love, Truth, and Peace
< Ken.
John 6:44
King James Bible (KJV) 44 No man can come to me, except the Father
which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Romans 3:11 King James Bible (KJV) 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Appreciated White's passion about those that claim to be Calvinists but have an attitude of arrogance that the Bible says believers shouldn't have based on the very grace that saved them.. Now does that mean all that embrace Calvinism act this way? Absolutely not. And to be frank, you can completely agree with the doctrines of grace because it is Biblical, not because it has a label on it. I would never call myself a Calvinist, but many times I am thrown in that camp because I agree with the core doctrines of salvation and God's sovereignty. After all, these doctrines were in the Bible before Calvin was ever born and even Calvin didn't event the acrostic TULIP. But I think it needs to be said that those on the anti-Calvinist side can also be just as mean-spirited and hateful; I've seen RUclips videos of pastors/preachers/teachers railing against their view on Calvinism with a view that it is heretical and demonic to the point where they villainize those that hold to these doctrines. So there are many in the anti-Calvinism club that feel that way as well. I know I've personally posted on this subject with other professed believers that have basically said I believe demonic doctrines, someone actually said I was a moron. The bottom line; if believers on both sides of this issue can't discuss the doctrines of the Bible to edify, encourage, and exhort one another, they need to back off, be prayerful, and examine their own hearts concerning the matter.
well James white is a hypocrite because he carries a banner of arrogance with him all the time in his debates, streams and radio talks. the man gloats about his credentials, #of debates, books he's written, all the time.... what good does his doctorate do for the Gospel... nothing.
Eric Smith They have no fruits of the spirit. Or they're having trouble and they must admit their carnal. "If we say we have no sin we lie to ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 In. 1:8
Ryan Gordon - Well the fact of the matter is that James White Liar has to begin to defend Calvinism because the good Lord is starting to wake people up to the truth of KJVism and more and more former Lordship people and Calvinsts are waking up realized they've been dooped. James White is just another politician who, in this video, has no choice but to defend Calvinism by disagreeing with his Calvinist "brothers". Because it's starting to stink and look like the lie it is based on..and is making him look bad too...so he's in it for himself. Lol! Know what's funny James White is like John Calvin's child and James White took over for Calvin. And all the other wittle baby Calvinist are being got on by old James White Daddy....how adorable. I bet he longs to breast feed his wittle Calvin babies. And I bet they want to suck his nipples right off!!
All Calvinists are arrogant and James White is one of the worst. He can pretend he's not here, but he is.
David Brainerd Love your generalization
You might want to read Romans 9. Starting at 9:18. Anti Calvinist, reformed who object to the idea that God choses, elects, anoints, by His sovereign will. Your issues are addressed plainly by the Apostle Paul. He states plainly God chooses. You know that's exactly what 18 means because of the passages 19-20. Paul addresses the same, it's not fair! God wouldn't do that! of then and now. Passages 21-23, Paul explains how and why and 24 on, who are these called and chosen, details and history. And if God allows you. Luke 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. John1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His Name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but if God. Do a word search on elect, chosen, predestined etc; Read Ephesians, 1&2, loaded with God choosing.. Ephesians 1:4, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world... So many of these "preachers" on U-tube pick and chose passages from here and their, omitting anything that will contradict their bias. I made that mistake long ago of just listening to teachers until I began reading the whole Bible.
Why should anyone skip the entire context and go straight to verse 18? Read Chapters 9-11.
@@krakenhuevos3972 What's your point?
@@VernonChitlen My point is that you missed the point, by a long shot.
@@krakenhuevos3972 That's what I thought, you have no point.
@@VernonChitlen Let me be blunt then. You're eisegeting a man-made systematic onto Romans 9. The idea that the interlocutor in Romans 9 is a first-century Arminian is absurd. He's arguing against a pharisaical Jew who things that he's chosen by God over the gentiles because it's his birthright. It's so ironic, yet sad, that Calvinists can't even perceive that they are repeating this same mistake.
I've noticed a lack of grace, arrogance and a ton of testosterone from certain internet Calvinists. Hopefully this message will calm some of them down. Peace.
I love James White. Just remember Calvinists are sinners too.
Was gonna search for this video and it appears in my recommanded with 777 Likes? Coincidence? I THINK NOT! lol
Why does it feel like James White is just describing himself?
But Calvinism is a club, Dr. White. The Cavinist interpretation of the Gospel is that it is an exclusive club, pre-chosen by God. I have respect for your theology in other areas, but railing against an interpretation that you embrace, and the box it builds around you, seems a bit disingenuous.
I also believe the bible teaches a Calvinistic position. As for our pride we all do it to each other. We believers love to tear the flesh off of our brothers and sisters in Christ for any differences real or perceived.
Grace, what's that? I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and I'm all out of gum!
If it's any consolation non believers do the same thing.
It's not a consolation at all, James, sadly. I actually see non-believers being more "brotherly" and bonded together in love than Christians. My worldly son's worldly friends are always there for him and always build him up and are always looking for the good in others (although they love to party and all that goes along with that). Nothing makes me question the validity of Christianity more than prideful, condescending, self-righteous Christians who are nasty and spiteful toward other Christians. Even just the lack of excitement/interest when seeing one another at church is off-putting. The world doesn't seem to struggle with that. If the love Jesus called us to is impossible, so is everything else.
I understand why Calvinists would struggle with pride. To think that God loves you more than he loves others is the very attitude the Jews of Jesus's day expressed. This along with Scripture, leads me to conclude Calvinism is false. Still, I love my Calvinist brothers.
Eric Rogers I understand the argument but it's from biblical teaching. The act of calling oneself Calvinist is false but the teachings are biblical
Of course, I disagree. It appears to have been made up centuries after the time of Jesus and the Apostles. We could address specific issues if you wish, but the overall message of the Gospel is God is love, Jesus takes away the sin of the world, those who believe are saved. This flies in the face of the claims of Calvinism.
Eric Rogers just your opinion. I have read through Calvinist teaching and have studied scripture to back it up. I don't understand how the word of God can be made up. I'm just getting different views
Certainly. Your opinion is Calvinism is biblical and mine is that it isn't. Only the Scripture can decide. So let's go there.
2 Thes 2:10 "and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
Did they refuse because God decreed it (i.e. they weren't elect)?
See you miss understood. Calvinism use scripture, sola scriptura, the elect is a very tricky subject to wrap our heads around. Now with that being said, God will be God and chose who He will. Now with that being said, I am a tulip guy and I was only asking your opinion to see where you stand. From what I assume, you are a believer and I just wanted your stance on this issue. No arguments need to come from this.
I am so sick of the fake piety which Baptist theology purports. God's Law in Covenant theology is all about Love. If you love God, obey Him!
"Get back in your cage!" Yeah! You tell those Calvinists Dr. White!
JK JK
Thanks for the message. Every group needs to hear this. Whatever happened to just being a basically decent human being?
Arrogance attitude can affect any doctrine, if I was of the freewill persuasion I would be arrogant for the following reasons, I was smarter than others for choosing the faith, or I am more righteous than others for choosing good over the evil. At the end believing in Christ was of my own doing with a little help of god. If you guys believe that faith was not granted to you, than you are more arrogant than the majority of Calvinists. And you truly do not understand the bad news to truly understand the good news the gospel. And very likely you still lost in your sins, angels of darkness portraying as Angels of Light.
Amen. And I feel the same way about the Bible Belt. We are in this country club mentality. The unregenerate hate the Church of the wrong reason. They see the wolves and the wolves bring shame upon the name of Christ.
Jesus said " you MUST be born again". Who initiates the new birth ? God or yourself ?
"All my Father has GIVEN to me will come to me" .... "No one comes to me unless my FATHER draws him". Its hard to deny that The Lord God is choosing the saved. However there is a mystery in how we are saved, in our accountability to believe and God's Soverign election.
That verse is regarding Hearers and Lovers of God coming to Christ , the whole chapter being read eliminates God haters and betrayers and unbelievers from coming as their own Unbelief stops them !
There is nothing wrong the doctrine of grace . The problem is that the people that follow the doctrine is still suffering sin like the rest of other Christians that follow there own choice doctrine. A true Christian recognizes that sin . A non-Christian pretty much don’t care .
So true. We are all sinners saved by Grace and being sanctified and growing. There's to many judgmental Christians without love and grace.
"There's to many judgmental Christians without love and grace."
----------What if an atheist is hearing apologetics from loveless Christians? Is there biblical justifcation to turn away on the grounds that the absence of love is a critical system failure? Or does the bible require unbelievers to endure loveless Christians on the grounds that the Holy Spirit can use even correct arguments from loveless Christians?
If you wanna see some ungracious unloving Calvinists join the Reformed a Pub on Facebook.
ksr622002 Which one? There are like 50 million "Reformed X Pub"s on Facebook. Cults tend to prefer their own, and Calvinism is a cult...
Yeah they booted me for not aggrandizing their beloved Non Prophet Calvin !
I'm just a girl who heard Jesus and seeks after him. Hope that's okay with all my calvinistic friends. :p
J C Just don't fall into the arminian doctrine lie, where "good works or in other word your faithfulness" keeps you saved, that's a lie from hell,understand that faithfulness is for sanctification and you'll be alright. Read Galatians chapter 3 all of it, it is an Arminian repellant.
J C Praise the Lord JESUS! I celebrate with you JC! Amen! God bless you!
being a woman, you fall under the authority of your father or your husband assuming they are believers. Other men ought not attempt to minister you in most context. I would advise to seek their leadership
William, that's not what headship means. We are all called to follow the teachings of the elders of the church, and in Christ there is neither male nor female. Headship means that, yes, a daughter submits to her father and a wife submits to her husband, but it doesn't mean that she never, ever listens to anybody else ever about anything. Women get to hear the sermon, too. Women get to do their homework and watch RUclips videos, too. Women are to be loved, esteemed, and respected as co-heirs with men in Christ (1 Peter 3:7).
2 Peter 1 commands ALL believers to supplement their faith with virtue and virtue with knowledge. Let her study, and let the Spirit of God lead her to a right conclusion of the Word (1 Corinthians 2). Elsewise, you are the one causing the little children to stumble, and Christ was clear about how that person's fate compares to drowning (Matthew 18:6).
J C, keep seeking after Him. :) The beauty of biblical soteriology (what's commonly called "Calvinism") is that it reminds us that the only reason anyone seeks after God is because God first drew them and that once God draws a person, there is absolutely nothing that can possibly get in the way of Him. "If God is for us, who can be against us?" (Rom 8:31) If you love Him, then it's because He first loved you (1 John 4:19), and nothing will get in the way of that. Take heart. The Bible is very reassuring for those who love Christ. :)
How ironic that when James White said (at 2:30), "I find it grossly inconsistent that those who claim to embrace this theology could at the same time be arrogant, ungracious, unloving, unkind, and constantly drawing their swords and lopping people's Armenian ears off...", he could have been describing the greatest of all Calvinists, John Calvin, who justified not just proverbial murder, but the actual murder of his theological opponents!
One can agree with a person's analysis on soteriology without agreeing with what that person may have done in their personal life. There were a lot of disgusting character flaws in many of the people in the early years of the Reformation in every camp, as there are with people nowadays as well, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater; to do so is to attack a strawman. I would vastly disagree with Calvin justifying murder of any sort for any reason (and I'm certain that Dr. White would agree on that point), but just because I might agree with how he viewed salvation doesn't mean I would condone any or all of his other beliefs. None of us should blindly follow a leader or a theologian, we should follow Christ.
CanuckGod i absolutely agree that we ought not throw the baby out with the bathwater, but the ironic thing is that the one who codified the five points of doctrine of salvation as James White adheres to and promotes, agreed with the slaughter of others over doctrinal disagreements (i.e. John Calvin). So for James to be aghast at Calvinists who "kill" with their tongues is sadly ironic.
Why do you think it is that when staunch Reformers/Calvinists or Roman Catholics (RCs) rule a country that the killing of their detractors becomes acceptable? Could it be that their emphasis on correct doctrine as opposed to correct living and Christ-like character is to blame? I believe so.
To get a good glimpse of what Reformers/RCs did to the non-resistant, love-your-enemy Anabaptists, check out a book called Martyrs Mirror.
Redeemed,
You name Calvin and murder in one sentence, if you mean Servet with that, that wasn't murder.
Calvin was trown out of the city himself for example so he was not a dictator.
Geneva was a safe haven for Calvin but Servet meant it's reputation to plummet to haven for any heretic.
Thus they set a harsh example and Calvin pleaded a 'softer' punishment that was denied.
Calvin endorsing the execution of Michael Servetus on theological grounds wasn't murder? Let's let Calvin speak for himself in regards to Servetus:
February 13, 1546 (seven years prior to Servetus' arrest) went on record as saying:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
Letter of August 20, 1553, one week after Servetus' arrest. "I hope that Servetus will be condemned to death."
Another quote "Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed."
Letter to the Marquis Paet, chamberlain to the King of Navarre, 1561. "[Anabaptists and others] ...such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard." [CORRECTION: Eskon2 has pointed out below that this particular is suspected to be a forgery."
If after reading Calvin's own hatred of Servetus and other Christians of different theological you still don't consider him a murderer, you are just as lost as Calvin in this regard.
Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said to the ancients, 'You shall not kill,' and whoever kills will be liable to the judgment. But I say to you that whoever gets angry with his brother without cause will be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Empty-head!' will be liable to the council. But whoever says, ' fool!' will be liable to the fiery hell. (Mat 5:21-22)
Redeemed52597,
Calvin wrote the institutio and presented it to the French king. Calvin's thinking was to accept the authority set among man after that of God as can be found in the bible.
Servetus was tried for heresy witch was proven to be correct.
Calvin was legaly coerced into giving away Servetus alias Villaneuve.
Servetusescaped prison after being sentenced elsewhere.
Calvin, Melanchton and Servetus all believed that heresy ought to be punished this way.
The bible also says the government wears the sword.
Basicly your asking of Calvin to lie witch is forbidden as well.
But all you did was state your own most condemning facts, you failed to deal with my initial arguments, thus failing to make the case for murder instead of killing.
But are those quotes real?
www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2017/08/john-calvin-vs-servetus-james-swan-misses-forest-trees.html
The first 2 blue pieces of text are the correct quotes and explain a lot more.
In the end Calvin was the one who tried Servetus o recant and was the one who tried to mitigate the punishment.
Ironic. Lead by example, White.
preach it james, iam going through seminary right now, and sometimes I need to be put in the cage. So preach it james, iam have ears to hear.
I went to a VERY Calvinist/Reformed Church. Nearly every sermon had at least one attack on the "Arminian/Easy Believism/Seeker Sensitive/Luke Warm Church." Eventually I had a chip on my shoulder for Arminians, yet I could not articulate the Gospel. Not that the my pastor didn't know it. He just assumed everyone in the church (I was baby Christian) already understood it and so he was focused on "the meat" of the Bible. It was when I, by accident, read a short presentation of the Gospel on-line that I realized I never knew it. I brought this to my pastors attention and he started tying each sermon to the Gospel, at least at the end. But it was too late because I had been trained in the "art of war..." specifically, how to use apologetics to destroy Arminians. And that "demon was in deep." But I get it... Arminianism leads to the Prosperity Gospel and a hundred other crazy ideas. The problem is, my pastors first priorities should have been my discipleship, sanctification, and teaching me how to love God and my neighbor and share the Gospel in the context of my testimony. Instead, the 5 Points where drummed into my head (BEFORE THE GOSPEL!!!). I know this experience of putting the cart before the horse is repeated in many Calvinist and/or Reformed Churches in America. It's not that the doctrine is wrong, it's a simple matter of WRONG PRIORITIES, and when you have an apologetics pod cast (James) which spends most of it's time railing against the Arminians, you are feeding into this tragedy. I don't watch a lot of your stuff, but how much do you balance "the milk" with "the meat?" Because there are a lot of Baby Christians listening to you when they really should be focused on other issues of faith, as well as, "Christian cowards" are tuning in, who would rather prepare for an argument with another brother than prepared for an uncomfortable encounter with a non-believer who they will have to share their testimony with. The reality is (takes one to know one) it's easier to try and pass yourself off as a lion, than to truly be a lamb.
Get back in your cage, please! Lol love it...
Calvinism is what happens to Arminians when they read the Bible
If Calvinists seem Unloving then they're accurately representing Calvinism. Jesus says we're to forgive everyone of their trespasses. But according to Calvinism God is not willing to forgive everyone of their trespasses.
Is Jesus more loving than God? Well no. Jesus is God so how could he be more loving than himself?
Jesus is willing to forgive all. The Bible teaches to forgive all. None of us are righteous. And yet Calvinism teaches that God is not even willing to forgive all.
The Bible teaches God would save whoever calls upon him to save them.
Calvinism teaches that God doesn't want to save everyone. And that it is God's will that most people will go to hell.
If Calvinists seem unloving it's because they're following the teachings of Calvinism and not the Bible.
Adam B absolutely! In Calvinism you can find injustice in God, and God is all just.
Amen
So great an exposition of Calvinism, untill you wake up to the reality that the quotes are missing.
You should convert to Calvinism then you have proof that Calvinist type this kind of nonsense.
Eskon2 If Grace is Irresistible, then all who receive it will obey. If grace is given to everyone, then the only logical conclusion while holding to the first premise is universalism, which is not biblical. So you as a Calvinist must accept either universalism, or that God does not desire all to be saved. (Or else they would be)
Martialimitator,
We're like a cow who kicks back against a sharp point.
The self righteous God does not desire to save, neither the devils.
It's obvious Calvinism is not universalistic.
Yet God might want everyone to be saved but before enacting it's own will, He allows our will freedom, all to His eternal glory.
If God let His will dominate, there would be no freee will and no sinfull man at all.
You shall know them by their fruit.....
They get it from you James. Listen to the way you treat people who disagree with your Calvanist interpretation.
I have been taken aback by the nastiness of Calvinists who choose insulting put-downs rather than calmly discussing their position. They display an arrogance and sense of superiority and refuse to take on board legitimate questioning of their position by fellow Christians.
That was a pretty humble and gracious challenge to your tribe. Thanks.
James was pretty rude to Dave Hunt years back in their discussion. He forgets that.
Why do Calvinist wanna be named "Calvinists" after a mortal "man"!!!
Kinda sickening! 🙄😶
Agape, It's a stream of tought, to explain your position, so i'm protestant reformed and Calvinistic,
But i also read the works of Luther and certain Anglicans.
I don't know of any 'Calvin' denominations, but I know several 'Reformed' denominations. 'Calvinism' was a term of the opposition and it is still most often used by those opposed to it. It's a bit like the older sibling asking why the younger keeps hitting themselves.
Dear James, the 5 points if calvinism humbled me to the ground before God. I can’t understand the contradiction of an arrogant Calvinist.
I have recently come to embrace the reformed theology, thanks to Paul Washer and you. Your debates out my world upside down, after years of ministry in the missionary field.
Thank you for the PDF, I’ll start tomorrow. 10 times over? Ni problem! Thanks!
" I can’t understand the contradiction of an arrogant Calvinist."
-----------Yes you can: If a Calvinist engages in the sin of arrogance, Calvinist theology would require that this is because God infallibly predestined him from all eternity to engage in such sin.
Sometimes I get frustrated at it too. Although I am elected, I cannot help but see the arrogance that this thinking sometimes seems to brood. I am often embarrassed by my brethren, It has caused me to refrain from this debate altogether.
RYAN DYAL How do you know you're elected?
Reformed or Calvinist theology teaches that regeneration precedes faith. God acts and man responds. Arminian theology teaches that faith precedes regeneration. Man acts and God responds. The two are mutually exclusive and can never be compromised. You don't need to have a doctorate in theology to know which one the Bible teaches. It screams at you from almost every page. Man was dead in trespasses and sins and God had to act.
Peter Jansen You clearly don't know what you're criticizing, because that's not at all what Arminianism teaches. Are you familiar with the term "prevenient grace," and do you know what it means?
James White is one of the most unkind, critical people I've heard in any discussion of the Bible. Maybe he should work on those logs in his eyes before coming down on those who've apparently learned acceptable behavior from him.
agreed
ת בנ־אברהם
I just posted a similar comment here. He's SUCH a negative guy all around.
@@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns I think you're conflating negative with being a realist and being honest.
I've followed James White's sermons, radio shows, debates etc for years now and sure, he can be a pretty tough guy and occasionally a tad condescending and arrogant but usually when he's behaving this way (and you're not quoting him out of context or anything) it's for a pretty damn good reason...the state of Christianity today is sorry state of affairs
That and he's only human, it's unbecoming to just sit here and nitpick his minor flaws when I'm sure you have plenty of your own. Maybe examine yourself before pointing the finger. This man has done great works for God and promoting the gospel of our Lord. Probably greater than any contemporary apologist. Even if you don't like him or his theology, he at least deserves your utmost respect.
Oh, and you want to see unkind, negative and so forth? Really, you want to see that? Please, sit through a few of his his debates with Catholic 'apologists.'
@@skippy8696 I'm not conflating those things. Yes, I agree that White is often misunderstood and *wrongly* called a jerk. That happens. But so do the more negative moments.
I know a LOT of people who are kind, but stupid. White puts them to shame.
I agree that a Calvinist (or Sovereign Grace Christian) should be gracious in the presentation of Gospel Truth. There is no need to be nasty or mean in most instances. There are those occasions, however, when a more forceful tact should be taken. In the face of sheer and utter heresy, the truth should be shared boldly and without compromise. After all, I'm pretty confident that Galatians was not a mushy friendly letter in the ears of the false teachers Paul confronted.
Demonstration number 2
Jason,
I agree with what you are saying. However, the person commenting about Jeff Durbin's page was not compromising the gospel.
I am a Wesleyan/Arminian Pastor and I just want to thank you for your message here. Yes, there are many things we disagree on, but we totally agree on the fundamentals of the faith.
I have heard so many bad things regarding you that it sparked my interest. Thank you for this. It meant more to me than you know!
Reformers > Prebirth damnation for most of humanity you agree with ? Bwahahaha , seminary polluted :( !
I did this the other day and by God's grace he disciplined me.
God disciplined you for doing something He infallibly predestined you to do? Why would God punish you if you were perfectly fulfilling his hidden will?
@@gregbooker3535 the whole thing is ridiculous
I am a open theist now
@@gregbooker3535 I was a Calvinist before I even had tulip memorized
Once you understand it it’s time to leave
Appreciate your heart on this, sir. And I also appreciate you helping to clarify some of these doctrines for me, and believe you did it as a glory to God and not Calvin.
Internet Calvinists: Exactly what Doctor White is criticizing here.
Real-Life Calvinists: Literally the nicest Protestants I've met, have been so very helpful to me in my journey.
Daily Reminder there's a reason these people are Terminally Online. It's because they'd get slapped in public and can't fight.
Thank you brother White for speaking out on a growing problem on Facebook comments in Calvanist groups.I have read such atrocious comments...we are the body of Christ and if we cannot show grace,how will anyone understand grace?
As ironic as it may seem, I never would have taken to studying the doctrines of grace, (and subsequently being convinced of their truth), had it not been for the aggressive and confrontational approach of certain "Calvinists" that I've encountered. I used to hold tenaciously to all of the classic "free will" arguments. If it hadn't been for people offending me with sovereign grace teachings, I never would have given them a second thought. That may have nothing to do with the context of this video, though.
Justin Reed I think your ending sentence is spot on! I think your experience is an example of Romans 8:28 but the over arching question is, “is verbal aggression the model that Jesus intended us to follow?” . Not being a Calvinist I have benefited from so many of the conversations I’ve had with my Calvinist friends. But the all to common arrogant attitude that accompanies them lacks grace or compassion toward anyone beneath them.
I think of Jesus healing the woman who asked for the crumbs off the table and I can’t imagine many calvinists searching for an opportunity to do the same thing with non-Calvinists. Sadly. They would however be first or even initiate intellectual arguments with the lady to prove where she should change her ways. I have love for my Calvinist friends and think the pursuit of this debate is a life altering reality. So many of us sincerely want to honor Jesus in the best way we can and this hasn’t been resolved yet because it’s a truly difficult concept. May God continue to give us all grace as we dive more into his Word and work to interpret the scriptures rightly!
" I never would have taken to studying the doctrines of grace, (and subsequently being convinced of their truth), had it not been for the aggressive and confrontational approach of certain "Calvinists" that I've encountered"
-----------While it might be reasonable to say God used their sin to work good in your own life, it would be just as reasonable to argue that because the consequences were morally good, the act producing them (aggressive Calvinism) was morally good.
The majority of people I have encountered who call themselves Calvinists seem very angry about nearly everything. Might I suggest that we all read 1 Corinthians 3? We are not called to follow people. We are called to follow Christ.
This is the part where White is supposed to remember something - "You will know them by their fruits." Can't get good fruit out of a bad tree; can't get good fruit out of Calvinism.
Deluded about the trinity,
We are all from the family tree of Adam and have fallen.
If you don't smoke you could still die of lungcancer, still not a good thing to go smoke.
The Trinity Delusion You sound arrogant.
except, I dunno, that whole Reformation thing?
MacArthur is a Calvinist and as such he prioresses reason,logic,intellect and knowledge (theology based).If you go to a Calvinist church, like the Southern Baptist denomination , you will notice that they have a full knowledge of the gospel but at the same time they take a fraction of their worship time to praise the LORD and for prayer!.I don't envision a S.Baptist christian as the prayer/praise type.If you invite them to a 2 hours praise the LORD and prayer worship I don't think they would accept your invitation.None the less I consider Calvinists as my brothers in Christ and respect their views as well, who am I to judge the way my brother serves his Master (Jesus Christ our LORD?.He stand for his Master and if he falls his Master will lift him up again!.Hallelujah!
Several years ago in a very popular Christian-themed forum, a Calvinist boasted that he would have "Turkey Servetus" for Thanksgiving dinner, and he wondered what wine went best with "heretic". Such a sick joke for anyone claiming the name of Christ! I'm glad to see a prominent Calvinist own up to the sort of behavior his community has devolved into. I hope someday he also owns up to the numerous fallacies he used in the Hunt-White debate, and the ill will that he himself has fostered over the years against Arminians.
As a five point calvinist myself, i see this to be very true. This assessment is 100% correct. What i love about calvinism is that it essentially forces you to be merciful. Everything is from the hand of God.
Ben Mensah... are you guys Calvinists or Christians? I don't get the "I'm a calvinist" statements. It's always about Calvin.
It obviously doesn't force it, or James White wouldn't be needing to have this conversation.
Why do you need to be forced to be merciful
I think there are arrogant people in every denomination. A Calvinist should by nature forever be humbled, since it is God who by grace alone saved you. Most Christians I know lean towards Calvinism, in the sense that God had to convinced you you’re a sinner, and that you cannot lose your salvation, for God’s gifts cannot be revoked. Hardcore Calvinists, however, tend to be too technical. But arrogance doesn’t necessarily have to do with your belief system, but with the fact that you’re the only one who’s got the right doctrine. Those people exist in every group!!!
First of I would like to say I love ALL you calvinists out there and not just some of you but ALL of you, as well as every one else out there in the world.
I can only truly love anyone by the love and strength GIVEN through Jesus Christ and the example that Jesus Christ has given ALL mankind.
Peace be unto you ALL Israelite born or not and other words who are Jews or a Jew inwardly, everyone else.
All Glory and thanks and love and power be to the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.
• (Hosea 4:6 K.J.V My people are DESTROYED for lack of knowledge: because thou hast 👉REJECTED knowledge👈, 👉I will also reject thee👈, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing THOU hast FORGOTTEN the law of thy God, I WILL also FORGET thy children.
• Hosea 4:6)
• (Isaiah 28:9-11 K.J.V Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
• For 👉PRECEPT MUST👈 be upon PRECEPT, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
• For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
• Isaiah 28:9-11)
There are many Holy Scriptures that disproves all 5 points of Calvinism called t.u.i.p. I'm going to be showing with the Holy Scriptures how the (“t”) and the (“i”) in t.u.l.i.p are 100% FALSE teaching by the Holy Scriptures.
First what is total inability or total depravity, as well as irresistible Grace theses are the (“t”) and the Im (“i”) in t.u.i.l.p.
T = TOTAL INABILITY a.k.a T = Total Depravity - Is the Calvinism teaching that ALL MANKIND are dead and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL, because ALL & EVERYONE has a heart of stone when born because of God caused Eve & Adam to sin. This is according to calvinism. Total inability a.k.a total depravity is 100% false teaching according to the Holy scriptures.
Oh all Calvinists use (Ezekiel 36:26 K.J.V) as a proof text). Keep this verse in mind.
L = LIMITED ATONEMENT- Is a Calvinism teaching that Christ died only for ALL the elect, Christ didn't die for ALL the non-elect, so ALL the non-elect remain Total depravity and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL because they have a heart of stone. Limited atonement is 100% false teaching according to the Holy scriptures.
So now the Holy Scriptures:
• (Hebrews 2:9 K.J.V
• But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should TASTE death for EVERY MAN.
• Hebrews 2:9)
It’s appoint for all mankind to die once.
• (Hebrews 9:27-28 K.J.V And as it is 👉APPOINTED unto men ONCE to DIE👈, but after this the judgment:
• So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time WITHOUT sin unto SALVATION.
• Hebrews 9:27-28)
So total depravity and limited atonement together you have ALL the elect who had a heart of stone and now has a heart of flesh, ALL the non-elect has a heart of STONE and are dead and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL.
So total depravity & limited atonement are 100% false for the simple fact that (Romans 14:12 K.J.V) is in the Holy Scriptures as well as others.
• (Romans 14:12 K.J.V So then 👉EVERY ONE👈 of us shall GIVE ACCOUNT of himself to God.
• Romans 14:12)
Here is how total depravity & limited atonement are 100% false for the simple fact that (Romans 14:12 K.J.V):
Question calvinists: How is the non-elect going to GIVE ACCOUNT of himself to God. If ALL the non-elect have a (heart of stone) and 100% cannot do anything they have a heart of stone remember.
So the teaching of total depravity and limited atonement makes (Romans 14:12 K.J.V) a 100% lie according to the Calvinism teachings because NOT EVERY ONE will give an account of himself to God if ALL the non-elect Have a heart of stone and 100% can't do anything nothing at ALL, is making God and God's word a lie.
• (Romans 14:12 K.J.V So then 👉EVERY ONE👈 of us shall GIVE ACCOUNT of himself to God.
• Romans 14:12)
Lets look at another verses (Revelation 22:12 K.J.V).
• Revelation 22:12 K.J.V
• And, behold, I come quickly; and my REWARD is with me, to give EVERY MAN according as his work shall be.
• Revelation 22:12
So if ALL the non-elect are have a heart of stone and are dead and 100% cannot do anything nothing at ALL, then how are ALL the non-elect And 100% cannot give an account of themselves to God how can God reward them according to their work, if God cannot reward them according to there work then (Revelation 22:12 K.J.V) it says EVERY MAN is a lie according to calvinism, in doinf so making God and God's word a lie.
So calvinist's is God a liar and God's word a lie OR is Calvinism a lie and false teaching?
(I Rich J Rio) Do hereby testify God to be Infinity times infinity percent true as well God’s word.
• Romans 3:4 K.J.V God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
• Romans 3:4
As for calvinism and the calvinism teachings (I Rich J Rio) Do hereby testify Calvinism defined as t.u.l.i.p as the teachings of Calvinism to be Infinity times infinity percent wrong and false teaching according to God and God's word.
• Isaiah 8:20 K.J.V To the law and to the testimony: if they speak NOT ACCORDING to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
• Isaiah 8:20
"TR" stands for "truly reformed"?? NO! NOOoooooooooOOO! It stands for TEXTUS RECEPTUS. How very much James White hates that one Bible that is not malleable.
Augustine was not a Saint , he was a Babylonian Manichean Fatalist ! To understand that is your first step out of Romes Council of Orange > TD ! Isaiah rebuked Babylonian Manichean Destiny and Fatalism way before Christ died for the sins of the world < ALL HUMANITY :) , that Whosoever :) > WHO :) SO :) EVER :) > believeth not perish !
Aww...Daddy White is all upset that not all Calvinists bow to His desires. Snowflake much, James? Exactly what did Daddy White expect from the Pride of The Elect? Humility? LOLZ Now it's Calvinists Vs Calvinists. Even Atheists don't argue with other Atheists as to "which brand of atheism is the right brand?" Apparently the lord's guidance is rapidly failing.
I downloaded that booklet. I still need to read it.
Trinity Apologetics it's a really good read!
calvinism is false gospel
from a Muslim fan of Dr. White, I think this message should be heard by many Christians of all sects and Muslims of all sects, the purpose of religion is guidance. Its strange when a religious person acts contrary to his religious teachings and repulsive.
Haven't seen the Babylon Bee making fun of how arrogant the Provisionists and Armenians lately. Only the Calvinist Club. You will know them by their fruit.
Typical calvinist video, but to clearify: clubs are gatherings of people who wants to participate in its activity! They will financially, morally and free willingly support there Club! Calvinists, Reformed, Five Pointers, 3-4 pointers, or how ever they called themself are not a Club. Calvinist are not like that as you see in video: Pressure is high and intensive on the individual, almost to the breaking point. IT IS HARD to stick with the dogma and please all the participants in this kind of "club". Distancing yourself from the rest or some of the rest is a dangerous game...
I've watched, listened to, and read a ton of James White over the past ten years of my own walk with Christ Jesus. Far more often than not, Mr. White comes across as arrogant, proud, and superior whenever speaking of anything or to anyone who disagrees with him, Protestant or Catholic. This attitude is what turned me off about Calvinism before I even really understood what it was. I knew that Jesus and Paul warned us against this very lack of charity and humbleness. Of course what I just said about Mr. White is completely my subjective observation, I am not judging the man nor his interior disposition. I just don't find his method helpful and, moreover, in all of these modern calvanists I can't helping thinking that they, almost to a man, lack any sense of joy and wonder. The guys at Apologia Studios sit at their table with their beards and hipster clothing/ haircuts and look like a pretend "Sons of Anarchy" motorcycle club spinoff debating in all the "rivals" they wanna embarrass or take on next. These Christians compete with the modern fads until they become the modern fads... Determinism is an error. It's an error because it means we aren't even free to say Thank you, Bless you, or ultimately, even I love you. We didn't worship doctrines of exegesis methods. We worship God. Let us never forget that. Peace of Christ brothers and sisters.
Well said Dr. White.
A club? No, it is the gospel of grace. Truly! If you were truly a Calvinist, you would not at all be a Baptist. So, yeah, I can see that you are getting tired of it. As a Baptist, you are antithetical to it and 5 points do not make you a Calvinist. You know, the Word God is a two edged sword. If you find it distasteful, then just proclaim yourself as a covenant breaking hypocrite. Be honest and disavow yourself of Covenant theology by the Baptist's taking the name of the Triune God in vain at baptism because it is to you and your household. Thank you!
Amen Dr. White. I recommend a sermon called, "True grace distinguished by the experience of devils." by J. Edwards. If we do things outside of the love of Christ, we are not true Christians. Even if we are solid in our theology.
Calvinist doctrine keeps me bowing down at the foot of the cross, so to speak. True is the scriptures"lest any man should boast" thankyou Jesus !
I am not a Calvinist. But i do believe that when it says God harden the heart of Pharaoh He did just that. When the Bible said that God sent, I believe it was an evil spirit to torment King Saul, God did just that. Jesus said that those who endure to the end will be saved, and Paul encourage other to continue to run the race, it implies choice. I believe both camps are trying to understand God. that is why I am thankful for the Calvinist who recognize Arminians as fellow Christians because of the fact that we are justified by faith in Christ.
Well said James. A lot of keyboard warriors who have become smug by the sounds of it. If Calvinism doesn't engender humility in us something is very wrong.
Andy McKinney Correct and what's wrong is that it's a false doctrine.
How about Christ in us. It’s not a doctrine that works in us but Christ. That’s what’s wrong!
Why would anyone call themselves a Calvinist ? Calvin was involved in the death's of over 50 believers because they didn't believe in his theology. Many of those were burned at the stake. Judge a man by his fruit's.
LOL Is this guy ever in a good mood? Always cranky, pissy, negative etc. Having said that, this is actually a good video and I largely agree with him here.
We can cut off ears.. Jesus just puts them back on, right? RIGHT!? 😬
So many trying to justify their prideful behavior. I sometimes can't wait for Christ to humble the church...
I am Calvanist, but I have to confess that we have some of the most arrogant, unkind, unlikable, insufferable people in all of Christendom.
Guys, just read that booklet as dr. White suggested, read it 10 times over before arguing on the doctrines of grace. It should resonate with a truly regenerated heart and have a positive influence on your personal life and ministry.
But if God is as sovereign as Calvinism says, then the ultimate reason any Calvinist uses Calvinism to brutalize other Christians is because God infallibly predestined him to do so.
Who cares about Calvin or Calvinists. Just fallow Jesus and his word. This reminds me of where Paul says. One fallows this one or that one. Is Christ divided. ?
I completely believe in what White says here. Many Reformed believers sicken me in their arrogance. I have been a Calvinist for forty years, yet am so often turned off by what I hear and see.
god bless you Dr. James White
spot on. i believe in what the bible says so theologically I fall into Calvanist thought and agreement but I cant stand poor manners either. there is a way to explain ones belief without insulting others. There are ways to defend ones beliefs and maintain manners and decorum.
As you can see. It applies to all. Even James White himself is not gracious to Reformed folks at times.
You do it because you are unable or unwilling to to perceive the incoherence of Calvinism, or because that very incoherence offers an air of intellectual sophistication that you covet.
Come on James come over to the Provisionist club, the people are nice here. You know you want to…
Thank you James White, for clearly stating what I have thought for many years now...l distanced myself from ‘The Calvinist Club’ sometime ago, unable to reconcile the arrogance of so many bloggers with the humility that is the obvious response to first learning the Truth of scripture...how one can feel ‘proud ‘ about being the recipient of God’s monergistic choice is beyond my comprehension...God bless you and God bless Jeff Durbin...
"how one can feel ‘proud ‘ about being the recipient of God’s monergistic choice is beyond my comprehension"
-------------not at all. If a Calvinist is proud about being the recipient of God monergistic choice, Calvinist theology demands that the reason is because God infallibly predestined him to become prideful.
Come to our group on fbk "biblical calvinism" it's full of nice and respectful people
Calvinism makes me sick also. When you read what calvinist parents are teaching their children you would be sick too!
Just listen to this accurate Calvinist night time story to little Johnny.
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
But it gets even worse with what they sing!
"Jesus loves me, this I know.
As for you, I don't think so.
Only some to Him belong. We are right and you are wrong.
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
But I hope this isn't effervescent grace that I'm walking in and instead I'm actually deceived and one of the reprobates that He created to burn as a candle for His glory in Hell forever."
If the above doesn't make you sick to your stomach nothing will. I presented the lies of calvinism unvarnished and clearly.
Calvinism is not Christianity, it is apposed to The Good News gospel to man kind.
TRUTH IN LOVE
We do have an idea who is predestinated and who is not.
John 3:36
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
I bought that booklet per your advice. I read it straight through. I will heed the warnings.
Shouldn't we praise Dr. White for being humble enough to actually see what is going on within this doctrine?
He believes in policing his own. That doesn't mean that other systems are doing it any better. They're not.
First of all, I like James White. I think he is pretty intelligent. I am still learning about theology and trying to find out what I believe. Secondly, he reminds me of David letterman 1:29 when I see his teeth.
ladyesther35
Check out Michael Brown
Sadly, Facebook is by definition a "bloodsport" :-(
Just relax . You are behaving just like the calvinists that you are talking about .
Sounds like the moderators of the Reformed Pub.