Lol I’m also afraid of heights. And I do think that was unnecessarily dangerous. I do really like what the father says to the son though. Cultivating self-reliance by reminding him he has the power to help himself. Have you got any specific New Year’s resolutions?
@@BraveNewSlop I like that part too, it is important to have some self reliance in life. I plan to lose more weight. I had the same resolution last year and lost 100 pounds. I aim for more this time. Do you have any new years resolutions?
That’s impressive man. Fitness and health are so important. Couple goals I’ll be taking more seriously this year are strictly limiting time wasted on internet, reading more, and then video production deadlines for this new RUclips channel. Want to really regularly make content for it. Seems like that’s something you’re really good at.
I loved your show. I grew up in a cult with a crazy asshole of a father. He claimed to be growing and evolving, but he was a self-delusional cultist fool who created a disaster for himself and the rest of his family. I am glad that mvoies like this are being made.
@@BraveNewSlop I did, thanks for caring. It wasn't just a disaster for me. It was a disaster for my mom and sisters as well, anyone guy can get a woman pregnant. But it takes an above average man to be a good father and husband. I really want to see this movie you reviewed.
Well said. I imagine it was just as hard if not harder to see someone cruel towards people you loved, in addition to yourself. I’m curious what you’ll think of the movie. The father is strict, yet he actively encourages the kids to empower themselves and develop their own perspectives. Definitely let me know what you think after you watch.
In Captain Fantastic, I appreciated the parenting strategies shown, but it’s unrealistic that strict, non-voluntary regimens wouldn’t cause internal rebellion even before outside influences. While the film focuses on rebellion triggered by outside ideas, I believe the children would have faced more internal friction. Even kids seek belonging and want to know their efforts are rewarded. In contrast, Thai Forest monks thrive under strict discipline because they willingly choose it, while prison inmates, despite more food, sleep, and (what we would call) freedoms, often experience unhappiness and conflict precisely because their regimens are enforced rather than chosen. The children’s harmonious behavior in the film feels overly idealized and unreflective of such natural tensions.
@tablab165 It might be a bit exaggerated, but I also think our interpretation of how strict these regimens are is influenced by modern society and culture. Compared to childhood and adolescence throughout human history-and in some parts of world today-these expectations that you work hard and are a loyal part of family unit and mission are normal. What these kids and adolescents suffer is just a fraction of what kids and adolescents suffered before modern wealth, right?
@@BraveNewSlopI appreciate what you’re saying but I have to agree with the OP. Coming from a very religious background has made a lot of children rebel against their upbringing. I know because I grew up the same way. Voluntary is way better than forced.
I agree, but I think the lifestyle shown is very different than most strict lifestyles, since all the kids are allowed to argue against anything. And ultimately the dad does make huge changes in their lifestyle by the end.
@@BraveNewSlop Yes, but it just doesn't survive contact with modern culture, which you can't escape. And I wouldn't want to go back to the bad old days. We worked like hell to escape those times. Realistically, half of those kids would be dead before the age of 10. People died young. Cause of death was often listed as "exhaustion". Indigenous societies could vary tremendously in their quality of life as well. Papua New Guinea, one of the closest societies we still have to 'ancient' around today, has one of the highest murder and sexual violence rates in the world. Tribes often fought genocidal wars that ended with the complete eradication of the losing side. Where do you think humans got their violent tendencies? We evolved from the humans who managed to destroy the competition, at least, at some point in our prehistory. The problem with prehistory is we know hardly anything about it directly, but we can trace our evolutionary lineage and we have studies ape societies. Now, many human societies that we have data on were not like the ones I talked about, I just thought they were the most relevant examples to challenge the film's depiction. Although to its credit it does show the father to be a flawed and perhaps even wrong-headed person. I do not want to go back, and anyway, it wouldn't work. The model presented in the film is utterly impractical for a world of eight billion people. The world could sustain about ten million people based on this model. The movie is thought-provoking, but I had already spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff as I was educated in anthropology and history, so it didn't bring anything new to the table for me. I think the movie also presented an unfortunate stereotype of Gen Z and a lack of pushback from the modern characters, who were just kind of...there. But you can only do so much in one film. I'm still glad it exists. @BraveNewSlop @BraveNewSlop Both. The shelter and technology mostly, which I think the father is totally wrong about. I assume all of his kids are vaccinated, and he knows plenty of stuff that only the modern world could have taught him that make this lifestyle viable without the kinds of consequences less knowledgeable societies that didn't go through the Industrial Revolution would not have known. As for the parenting style - well, premodern parenting styles weren't exactly anything to celebrate. He's not an abusive or mentally ill parent, which we now monitor as best we can. But if he was? Very different movie. Back then? There was no protection against abusive parents, no social workers to intervene if things got bad. The father has also been exposed to modern society, so he can pick and choose what works and what doesn't. And believe me, there were _a lot_ of things about premodern parenting styles that didn't work. There are certainly aspects of this style that can be adopted by modern families without subjecting them to the full-on isolationist, survivalist mentality. I went camping many times with my family back in the day, and it was great. Serious backwoods camping, deep in the park, canoeing across lakes and portaging. Yes, it contributed positively towards my development. It also didn't stop me from developing OCD, a disease that I would have been at risk of developing in any society. People got OCD back in premodern societies, from the evidence available. Martin Luther very likely had it, for instance. Nothing about this lifestyle could have cured that, and the father has rendered it impossible to treat mental health diseases that people are going to get no matter how they live. So yes, I am objecting to the parenting style. And as the other poster said, it only works as long as they stay completely isolated from modern society. It can't survive contact with the modern world without disrupting the family order. The movie also depicts an extreme example of Gen Z. My sister hasn't raised her kids like that. She's disciplined about their phone and devices use in general. And they're nice kids. (OCD led to my life being such a disaster that I haven't had kids.) It wasn't the movie's intention to cover so much, nor could it. It depicted an extreme example of two styles of parenting in order to contrast them and get maximum dramatic effect. And it obviously worked. Here we are talking about it.
@@squamish4244 Some interesting thoughts here. You’ve got a few different points, so wanna make sure I understand. Is your objection to the shelter and technology, or to the parenting style?
Stories are an intrinsic and important element of the cultivation and evolution of cultures/societies. Be they myth, folklore, comic books or video games, stories help to shape the world as we perceive it.
Brilliant sir, it is so rare that I find anything with similar philosophy to my own. I would like to share, while in university at the age of 19, I declared my code of ethics. The ethical ideal is to make the broadest positive impact of wellness (mental, physical, spiritual health) without sacrificing individual wellness except where is sufficient to produce a necessary cause. I settled on that the best way to do this is not to become the ideal person on my own, but it is to raise and mentor as many children as possible in my lifetime, and spread all of my resources among them to the best degree possible. My ambition is to become wealthy, and start an orphanage based upon my ethics system. Sometimes, I feel so alone. The individuals close to me in this society have not supported me in my ambition to do these things. In fact, I can't even find a job right now using my degree (software engineer) due to hiring freezes. Still, I work everyday with my ambition in mind for the future, while I try to prepare myself for this great task now.
@@matthewboyea3860 How you become wealthy is more important than being wealthy. If you can't raise those who contribute to your success higher than the tide, understand you will be contributing to the majority of oursocietal problems.
@@matthewboyea3860 First of all, I commend you for the ambition and the moral code. Most people laugh at people with great moral ambition, because it scares and shames them. It’s a lifelong journey for sure. And from what I understand, a lot of people with great moral ambition get corrupted on the way there. As you gain wealth, you will be tempted to use that wealth for yourself. It will start in little bits-I deserve a nicer apartment, a nicer car. So I think even when we aren’t moving as quickly in our journey, we can still work on ourselves, find ways to be more self-aware, self-disciplined. We can still study the paths of our men who inspire us and can demonstrate what it truly takes to live a life of service and sacrifice. It’s crucial for us to be adaptable as we pursue our goals. If the fire burns bright enough inside you, and if you’re strong enough, and if you’re flexible enough, you will succeed. It just might not be exactly in the way you expected. You’re young and the fact that you’ve already thought so deeply on this is incredible. Truly. Do you feel like you have a solid plan for the next 6-12months at least?
@@BraveNewSlop Ah, I'm nearly at the end of my rope. I've done a lot to look for software engineering jobs since I graduated University in 2023 (19 years old), but recruiters and companies only reject, lie, and ghost me. Because the job hunt has been going poorly, I've started working on a couple projects to start my own business. One product is a VPN targeted towards gamers, to allow them to do LAN parties online. The other product is a website "CMS" which I will use to produce websites on a contractual basis. I am hoping to be able to cover costs of living between these two business prospects while I continue to apply for full-time jobs. If not I'll have to work part time somewhere. These two projects could also improve my resume (but I think companies actually do not give a shit, cause my resume is already pretty damn impressive, especially for my age). My deadline to become cashflow-positive before getting a generic part-time job is May 1st, 2025.
What about the point of the movie where we meet the Father-in-law? The grandfather on the father’s side is important to the movie as much as the sister in laws are. You forgot the father of mother that died. One of the olde daughters gets injured and it makes Viggo examine whether he is a good father and whether he is taking care of his children the right way. Granted he a doesn’t decide to put them in public school but he does learn to have a better relationship with his father-law. Although, when the grandfather finds out his daughter’s body was dug up by the husband to be given the funeral her husband and his family wanted, he might get angry at the son-in-law. We aren’t sure what are the consequences of digging up the body to cremate the remains instead.
Right, I couldn't cover everything in the video. I was taking a more philosophical approach rather than a strict review. Philosophically I'm not as interested in the grandfather. But if I had time I'd love to have talked more about the other parts of the movie too.
I think the movie should have ended with Viggo’s character and the Grandfather coming to a compromise of how to take care of the children and how to give the mother the proper funeral she deserves that both the father and Grandfather can be happy with. If the movie ended with them them being friends and the Grandfather helping to take care of the children, that would have been a great ending.
I am honest as often as it is safe to do so. I try to be somewhat tactful, but self-censorship to the extent it is expected of us in civilised society is absurd. Not much has changed since the '50s, in that regard, it's just the differences in the words you can't say and the concepts or ideologies you're not allowed to express. You lose a lot of friends and acquaintances along the way if you are honest with them and about yourself, but sometimes it's better to be honest out of spite than to lie for politeness' sake.
Very well said. I agree. When you say safe, do you mean safe to retain employment? Or safe to retain friendships? Or safe to not incite someone to fury and threats?
@@BraveNewSlop There's always a time and a place, though I will say saying inappropriate things at work has counted against me more often than not. I still lie to cops and employers when necessary.
@@DæmonV86 Do you think without the implicit threat from employer you would exercise freedom of speech significantly more? Or do you just mean within professional interactions is where you restrict it, not outside of work?
@@BraveNewSlop If there were fewer deleterious consequences overall I would be more honest more often. Politically, professionally, socially, what-have-you.
Right but how many are thinking the same thing? I’m extremely sympathetic to employment concerns of course. It’s a lot to ask of someone to risk their livelihood to speak truth. But when the risk isn’t that high, when does it become cowardice we blame on others?
You’re missing the forest for the trees. What’s really important is how you live your life. Not whether or not you broke a minor etiquette rule your sister imposed on you. Ben being stubborn and imperfect doesn’t invalidate his courage or philosophy.
I still don’t see this as invalidating his courage or philosophy. These kids he raised are pretty much the perfect kids. They’ve cultivated both humility and strength, curiosity and wisdom, resilience without losing kindness. They’re noble warriors of a kind we lack in our society, and I doubt either of us were anywhere near their virtue and strength in childhood or adolescence. Ben’s stubbornness and isolationist philosophy doesn’t invalidate how successfully he raised them. Especially because he ultimately does reevaluate his relationships with Bo and Killian and give them what they wanted-for Bo, his blessing to go out on his own. For Killian, integration with society. If anything, I attribute Ben’s stubbornness to poor writing rather than a real philosophy. The biggest gap in character development is insight into Ben’s vision for them. Did Ben want Bo to grow old in the woods together? Obviously not. It’s just the movie couldn’t focus on everything, and they had to make Ben more flawed so the audience could point to that to deflect the more painful message that Ben’s philosophy of life and parenthood is a positive, aspirational thing. Especially the compromise that the end represents.
That's fair for a normal parent, but since this guy is such a hardcore planner I think they just wrote him as having no plan, in order to create a conflict. What do you think overall? Does the movie make you want to make any changes in your life? It's definitely given me some extra vision for my life and my potential future role as a father.
I definitely think it’s easy to get acclimated to our modern lifestyle and kind of project it back into the past too. I’m guilty of it as well. But it’s only recently in human history (and in only some areas of the world) that lifestyles look like the suburban family’s
Right, it probably would have been more realistic if he’d networked a bit with other families in the general area and maybe arranged some activities together.
@@BraveNewSlop But here also lies a problem. If you allow them to socialise with others to much or even if any with wrong people, they can be influenced in more modern lifestyle or even worse things. Fear of missing out is the big one when something is newly presented to a child. So that is why you have more than 4-5 kids with not to much age gap. And some communities with similar values is nice to know or have near-by, but it is hard in this days. So you are always battle with outside forces manipulating your in progress little people (children) and with yourself as parents. It is hard job to do, but it is all worth it when those children become adults. First there can be resentment towards parents but then realization what they had in their upbringing and how tough and free they can be in future because of it. They realize their thick skin and their tools. I give full respect to people like in this film, just without inclusion of religion that most people do with home schooling. So yes socialising is very grey area, but it must be included somehow until adulthood. And did you notice Thor's hammer around fathers neck?
I’d say it’s a drama first and a comedy second, but def a lot of surprisingly hilarious moments. Glad you liked the movie as well. Was there anything you took away from it, in terms of seeing negative aspects of your own life reflected back to you? Or seeing examples of positive aspects you might want to grow into?
@BraveNewSlop The main lesson for me was that both extremes create their own set of problems. Children are a bit like growing trees, you can prune and restrict the tree to a point of caricature or you can leave it to go wild and turn into an unproductive overgrown mess. But the happiest trees are where they are pruned just the right amount and the right way to develop strong, healthy, productive and appreciated by community.
That’s fair. So would your ideal family-not sure if you have kids or not-look like the family at the end? The sort of traditional, “old-fashioned” life they lead?
I loved it. But the father is typical far left guy. Thinks he is so right that he doesn’t need to consider any other views. Wants kids to be independent but doesn’t allow them to be. Massive hypocrite.
I’d be curious, what would you have as your ideal for how the father and family should act? Would the ending where they integrate to society while retaining their traditional values and discipline satisfy you? I personally think that’s great for the average family, but if we’re training hero-leaders it’s another story.
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you bring up important points, i am eager to rewatch the video. Thank you for making this video!
Glad you enjoyed!
But you forgot the Grandfather and the part he plays in the movie
Pretty good take on the movie! I have to check it out again!
Thank you! I highly recommend rewatching with an open mind :)
@@BraveNewSlop I did it and it is amazing! Their lives seem nice! Personally I wouldn't do the rock climbing but the rest I would try.
Lol I’m also afraid of heights. And I do think that was unnecessarily dangerous. I do really like what the father says to the son though. Cultivating self-reliance by reminding him he has the power to help himself.
Have you got any specific New Year’s resolutions?
@@BraveNewSlop I like that part too, it is important to have some self reliance in life.
I plan to lose more weight. I had the same resolution last year and lost 100 pounds. I aim for more this time. Do you have any new years resolutions?
That’s impressive man. Fitness and health are so important. Couple goals I’ll be taking more seriously this year are strictly limiting time wasted on internet, reading more, and then video production deadlines for this new RUclips channel. Want to really regularly make content for it. Seems like that’s something you’re really good at.
I loved your show. I grew up in a cult with a crazy asshole of a father. He claimed to be growing and evolving, but he was a self-delusional cultist fool who created a disaster for himself and the rest of his family. I am glad that mvoies like this are being made.
I’m sorry to hear that, that sounds like an extremely hard childhood
@@BraveNewSlop I did, thanks for caring. It wasn't just a disaster for me. It was a disaster for my mom and sisters as well, anyone guy can get a woman pregnant. But it takes an above average man to be a good father and husband. I really want to see this movie you reviewed.
Well said. I imagine it was just as hard if not harder to see someone cruel towards people you loved, in addition to yourself. I’m curious what you’ll think of the movie. The father is strict, yet he actively encourages the kids to empower themselves and develop their own perspectives. Definitely let me know what you think after you watch.
In Captain Fantastic, I appreciated the parenting strategies shown, but it’s unrealistic that strict, non-voluntary regimens wouldn’t cause internal rebellion even before outside influences. While the film focuses on rebellion triggered by outside ideas, I believe the children would have faced more internal friction. Even kids seek belonging and want to know their efforts are rewarded.
In contrast, Thai Forest monks thrive under strict discipline because they willingly choose it, while prison inmates, despite more food, sleep, and (what we would call) freedoms, often experience unhappiness and conflict precisely because their regimens are enforced rather than chosen. The children’s harmonious behavior in the film feels overly idealized and unreflective of such natural tensions.
@tablab165 It might be a bit exaggerated, but I also think our interpretation of how strict these regimens are is influenced by modern society and culture. Compared to childhood and adolescence throughout human history-and in some parts of world today-these expectations that you work hard and are a loyal part of family unit and mission are normal. What these kids and adolescents suffer is just a fraction of what kids and adolescents suffered before modern wealth, right?
@@BraveNewSlopI appreciate what you’re saying but I have to agree with the OP. Coming from a very religious background has made a lot of children rebel against their upbringing. I know because I grew up the same way. Voluntary is way better than forced.
I agree, but I think the lifestyle shown is very different than most strict lifestyles, since all the kids are allowed to argue against anything. And ultimately the dad does make huge changes in their lifestyle by the end.
@@BraveNewSlop Yes, but it just doesn't survive contact with modern culture, which you can't escape. And I wouldn't want to go back to the bad old days. We worked like hell to escape those times. Realistically, half of those kids would be dead before the age of 10. People died young. Cause of death was often listed as "exhaustion".
Indigenous societies could vary tremendously in their quality of life as well. Papua New Guinea, one of the closest societies we still have to 'ancient' around today, has one of the highest murder and sexual violence rates in the world. Tribes often fought genocidal wars that ended with the complete eradication of the losing side. Where do you think humans got their violent tendencies? We evolved from the humans who managed to destroy the competition, at least, at some point in our prehistory. The problem with prehistory is we know hardly anything about it directly, but we can trace our evolutionary lineage and we have studies ape societies.
Now, many human societies that we have data on were not like the ones I talked about, I just thought they were the most relevant examples to challenge the film's depiction. Although to its credit it does show the father to be a flawed and perhaps even wrong-headed person.
I do not want to go back, and anyway, it wouldn't work. The model presented in the film is utterly impractical for a world of eight billion people. The world could sustain about ten million people based on this model.
The movie is thought-provoking, but I had already spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff as I was educated in anthropology and history, so it didn't bring anything new to the table for me. I think the movie also presented an unfortunate stereotype of Gen Z and a lack of pushback from the modern characters, who were just kind of...there. But you can only do so much in one film. I'm still glad it exists.
@BraveNewSlop @BraveNewSlop Both. The shelter and technology mostly, which I think the father is totally wrong about. I assume all of his kids are vaccinated, and he knows plenty of stuff that only the modern world could have taught him that make this lifestyle viable without the kinds of consequences less knowledgeable societies that didn't go through the Industrial Revolution would not have known.
As for the parenting style - well, premodern parenting styles weren't exactly anything to celebrate. He's not an abusive or mentally ill parent, which we now monitor as best we can. But if he was? Very different movie. Back then? There was no protection against abusive parents, no social workers to intervene if things got bad.
The father has also been exposed to modern society, so he can pick and choose what works and what doesn't. And believe me, there were _a lot_ of things about premodern parenting styles that didn't work.
There are certainly aspects of this style that can be adopted by modern families without subjecting them to the full-on isolationist, survivalist mentality. I went camping many times with my family back in the day, and it was great. Serious backwoods camping, deep in the park, canoeing across lakes and portaging. Yes, it contributed positively towards my development. It also didn't stop me from developing OCD, a disease that I would have been at risk of developing in any society. People got OCD back in premodern societies, from the evidence available. Martin Luther very likely had it, for instance.
Nothing about this lifestyle could have cured that, and the father has rendered it impossible to treat mental health diseases that people are going to get no matter how they live. So yes, I am objecting to the parenting style.
And as the other poster said, it only works as long as they stay completely isolated from modern society. It can't survive contact with the modern world without disrupting the family order. The movie also depicts an extreme example of Gen Z. My sister hasn't raised her kids like that. She's disciplined about their phone and devices use in general. And they're nice kids.
(OCD led to my life being such a disaster that I haven't had kids.)
It wasn't the movie's intention to cover so much, nor could it. It depicted an extreme example of two styles of parenting in order to contrast them and get maximum dramatic effect. And it obviously worked. Here we are talking about it.
@@squamish4244 Some interesting thoughts here. You’ve got a few different points, so wanna make sure I understand. Is your objection to the shelter and technology, or to the parenting style?
Some great insight! Perspective is key!
Absolutely! Must be open to new perspectives to grow
Amazing essay.. 💕💕💕
Thank you sir! Strength costs comfort
Stories are an intrinsic and important element of the cultivation and evolution of cultures/societies. Be they myth, folklore, comic books or video games, stories help to shape the world as we perceive it.
Well said
@@BraveNewSlop Thanks!
Brilliant sir, it is so rare that I find anything with similar philosophy to my own.
I would like to share, while in university at the age of 19, I declared my code of ethics.
The ethical ideal is to make the broadest positive impact of wellness (mental, physical, spiritual health) without sacrificing individual wellness except where is sufficient to produce a necessary cause.
I settled on that the best way to do this is not to become the ideal person on my own, but it is to raise and mentor as many children as possible in my lifetime, and spread all of my resources among them to the best degree possible. My ambition is to become wealthy, and start an orphanage based upon my ethics system.
Sometimes, I feel so alone. The individuals close to me in this society have not supported me in my ambition to do these things. In fact, I can't even find a job right now using my degree (software engineer) due to hiring freezes. Still, I work everyday with my ambition in mind for the future, while I try to prepare myself for this great task now.
I am 20 now.
@@matthewboyea3860 How you become wealthy is more important than being wealthy. If you can't raise those who contribute to your success higher than the tide, understand you will be contributing to the majority of oursocietal problems.
@@matthewboyea3860 First of all, I commend you for the ambition and the moral code. Most people laugh at people with great moral ambition, because it scares and shames them.
It’s a lifelong journey for sure. And from what I understand, a lot of people with great moral ambition get corrupted on the way there. As you gain wealth, you will be tempted to use that wealth for yourself. It will start in little bits-I deserve a nicer apartment, a nicer car.
So I think even when we aren’t moving as quickly in our journey, we can still work on ourselves, find ways to be more self-aware, self-disciplined. We can still study the paths of our men who inspire us and can demonstrate what it truly takes to live a life of service and sacrifice.
It’s crucial for us to be adaptable as we pursue our goals. If the fire burns bright enough inside you, and if you’re strong enough, and if you’re flexible enough, you will succeed. It just might not be exactly in the way you expected.
You’re young and the fact that you’ve already thought so deeply on this is incredible. Truly. Do you feel like you have a solid plan for the next 6-12months at least?
@@BraveNewSlop Ah, I'm nearly at the end of my rope. I've done a lot to look for software engineering jobs since I graduated University in 2023 (19 years old), but recruiters and companies only reject, lie, and ghost me.
Because the job hunt has been going poorly, I've started working on a couple projects to start my own business.
One product is a VPN targeted towards gamers, to allow them to do LAN parties online.
The other product is a website "CMS" which I will use to produce websites on a contractual basis.
I am hoping to be able to cover costs of living between these two business prospects while I continue to apply for full-time jobs. If not I'll have to work part time somewhere.
These two projects could also improve my resume (but I think companies actually do not give a shit, cause my resume is already pretty damn impressive, especially for my age).
My deadline to become cashflow-positive before getting a generic part-time job is May 1st, 2025.
I went through that tragedy at 15. I was the cousins. You are correct.
Damn, thanks for sharing. I’m sorry to hear it. Was there anyone or anything that ultimately helped guide you in the right direction?
@BraveNewSlop Nope. At this point, morally, spiritually, and my values are all instilled by me. I raised the person I am today.
@@Thanks-bj1fo That’s impressive. What do you think shaped those values? Introspection and observation mainly?
What about the point of the movie where we meet the Father-in-law? The grandfather on the father’s side is important to the movie as much as the sister in laws are. You forgot the father of mother that died. One of the olde daughters gets injured and it makes Viggo examine whether he is a good father and whether he is taking care of his children the right way. Granted he a doesn’t decide to put them in public school but he does learn to have a better relationship with his father-law. Although, when the grandfather finds out his daughter’s body was dug up by the husband to be given the funeral her husband and his family wanted, he might get angry at the son-in-law. We aren’t sure what are the consequences of digging up the body to cremate the remains instead.
Right, I couldn't cover everything in the video. I was taking a more philosophical approach rather than a strict review. Philosophically I'm not as interested in the grandfather. But if I had time I'd love to have talked more about the other parts of the movie too.
Well the oldest son does leave the family to make his own decisions and his own life.
I think I showed that, right?
Wow… I LOVED this
😍 Thank you
Loved this !! Great ideas and commentary !
😁😁
I think the movie should have ended with Viggo’s character and the Grandfather coming to a compromise of how to take care of the children and how to give the mother the proper funeral she deserves that both the father and Grandfather can be happy with. If the movie ended with them them being friends and the Grandfather helping to take care of the children, that would have been a great ending.
What about the grandfather visiting the family? Building off your idea. That might have been a nice scene?
I am honest as often as it is safe to do so. I try to be somewhat tactful, but self-censorship to the extent it is expected of us in civilised society is absurd. Not much has changed since the '50s, in that regard, it's just the differences in the words you can't say and the concepts or ideologies you're not allowed to express. You lose a lot of friends and acquaintances along the way if you are honest with them and about yourself, but sometimes it's better to be honest out of spite than to lie for politeness' sake.
Very well said. I agree. When you say safe, do you mean safe to retain employment? Or safe to retain friendships? Or safe to not incite someone to fury and threats?
@@BraveNewSlop There's always a time and a place, though I will say saying inappropriate things at work has counted against me more often than not. I still lie to cops and employers when necessary.
@@DæmonV86 Do you think without the implicit threat from employer you would exercise freedom of speech significantly more? Or do you just mean within professional interactions is where you restrict it, not outside of work?
@@BraveNewSlop If there were fewer deleterious consequences overall I would be more honest more often. Politically, professionally, socially, what-have-you.
Right but how many are thinking the same thing? I’m extremely sympathetic to employment concerns of course. It’s a lot to ask of someone to risk their livelihood to speak truth. But when the risk isn’t that high, when does it become cowardice we blame on others?
Bens out of line at the dinner table. Hosts didn’t want kids to drink wine but does it anyway because ONLY HE is correct in his mind.
You’re missing the forest for the trees. What’s really important is how you live your life. Not whether or not you broke a minor etiquette rule your sister imposed on you. Ben being stubborn and imperfect doesn’t invalidate his courage or philosophy.
@ he doesn’t let them live their lives. Stopping boe and belittling his killian who wants to celebrates Xmas.
I still don’t see this as invalidating his courage or philosophy. These kids he raised are pretty much the perfect kids. They’ve cultivated both humility and strength, curiosity and wisdom, resilience without losing kindness. They’re noble warriors of a kind we lack in our society, and I doubt either of us were anywhere near their virtue and strength in childhood or adolescence. Ben’s stubbornness and isolationist philosophy doesn’t invalidate how successfully he raised them. Especially because he ultimately does reevaluate his relationships with Bo and Killian and give them what they wanted-for Bo, his blessing to go out on his own. For Killian, integration with society. If anything, I attribute Ben’s stubbornness to poor writing rather than a real philosophy. The biggest gap in character development is insight into Ben’s vision for them. Did Ben want Bo to grow old in the woods together? Obviously not. It’s just the movie couldn’t focus on everything, and they had to make Ben more flawed so the audience could point to that to deflect the more painful message that Ben’s philosophy of life and parenthood is a positive, aspirational thing. Especially the compromise that the end represents.
@ maybe he just doesn’t want to let go like most parents. He doesn’t seem to have a plan past their teens or consider their opinions or wants.
That's fair for a normal parent, but since this guy is such a hardcore planner I think they just wrote him as having no plan, in order to create a conflict. What do you think overall? Does the movie make you want to make any changes in your life? It's definitely given me some extra vision for my life and my potential future role as a father.
This guy forgets this is a movie and thinks these are real people.
I definitely think it’s easy to get acclimated to our modern lifestyle and kind of project it back into the past too. I’m guilty of it as well. But it’s only recently in human history (and in only some areas of the world) that lifestyles look like the suburban family’s
You're definitely not real😂
@@haroldjoseph8296 I'm curious to hear your opinion?
Bens a homeschool type of parent not realising that socialising is important too.
Right, it probably would have been more realistic if he’d networked a bit with other families in the general area and maybe arranged some activities together.
@@BraveNewSlop But here also lies a problem. If you allow them to socialise with others to much or even if any with wrong people, they can be influenced in more modern lifestyle or even worse things. Fear of missing out is the big one when something is newly presented to a child. So that is why you have more than 4-5 kids with not to much age gap. And some communities with similar values is nice to know or have near-by, but it is hard in this days. So you are always battle with outside forces manipulating your in progress little people (children) and with yourself as parents. It is hard job to do, but it is all worth it when those children become adults. First there can be resentment towards parents but then realization what they had in their upbringing and how tough and free they can be in future because of it. They realize their thick skin and their tools. I give full respect to people like in this film, just without inclusion of religion that most people do with home schooling. So yes socialising is very grey area, but it must be included somehow until adulthood. And did you notice Thor's hammer around fathers neck?
i liked the movie. I thought it was a comedy though. Contrasting clash of extremes and then finding the middle road.
I’d say it’s a drama first and a comedy second, but def a lot of surprisingly hilarious moments. Glad you liked the movie as well. Was there anything you took away from it, in terms of seeing negative aspects of your own life reflected back to you? Or seeing examples of positive aspects you might want to grow into?
@BraveNewSlop The main lesson for me was that both extremes create their own set of problems. Children are a bit like growing trees, you can prune and restrict the tree to a point of caricature or you can leave it to go wild and turn into an unproductive overgrown mess. But the happiest trees are where they are pruned just the right amount and the right way to develop strong, healthy, productive and appreciated by community.
That’s fair. So would your ideal family-not sure if you have kids or not-look like the family at the end? The sort of traditional, “old-fashioned” life they lead?
@@BraveNewSlop yes, my ideal situation would be a permaculture farm in the outskirts of a sizeable town.
Solid. That’s a great ambition. Do you feel like are you on the journey towards that dream?
Exactly what the movie is about
🥹 🤝
Yeah that’s a _fantastic_ movie 🙃
😝😁
@@BraveNewSlop not 😝😁
hippie sparta 🤣
😆
I loved it. But the father is typical far left guy. Thinks he is so right that he doesn’t need to consider any other views. Wants kids to be independent but doesn’t allow them to be. Massive hypocrite.
I’d be curious, what would you have as your ideal for how the father and family should act? Would the ending where they integrate to society while retaining their traditional values and discipline satisfy you? I personally think that’s great for the average family, but if we’re training hero-leaders it’s another story.
What are you smoking?
@@akshayde 🤔