Taking a corner FLAT OUT can be SLOWER. Here's proof...
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- This particular high speed corner is a tricky one to nail in this kart. In higher temperatures, this corner is easily taken flat, but in cold temperatures like in this video, the corner can be taken flat but at a cost. A quick lift off the throttle just before apex helps the kart rotate with minimal scrubbing, so exit speed is higher (essentially 'V-ing' off the corner).
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Essentially, a fast corner exit is almost always better than having a fast entry or middle of the corner.
Unless slow car then you need to keep the momentum
@TheBlueSalamander these karts are slow and rely heavily on keeping revs up to get anything out of them, but even here the slow in = fast out rule still applies.
If the kart or car is stable enough for you to not get any excess oversteer (roughly anything more than 10 degrees slip angle) while staying full throttle, definitely go for it.
it really depends on condition, if you want to overtake someone, a fast entry is fine, you can defend afterwards (or you can get switcheroo-ed), if there is a nice stretch of straight after the corner, fast exit is better
@Life is Hard completely agree
Good racecraft is knowing when not to use the optimal line and/or braking point
Good track knowledge is knowing which corners are okay to sacrifice for a faster laptime
Well flat out is of course faster but he drifted so it makes no sense
I recently went karting and I was alone on track. I started lifting in corners I knew I couldn't go flat and knew where I needed more rotations in the tight corners. I beat my PT by 0.536s and broke into the 34s at .481. Once I saw those times, I knew it was going to be super tight.
what does lifting mean? lift the gas pedal?
@@realcnstudiosyes, just release for very short moment and then go full throttle again
@@zwadinski thanks!
@@realcnstudios yes, just slightly
Soon to be go-kart newbie here, is going flat-out wears more and unnecessarily overheats the tyre? I'm attempting to race in a street circuit festival for first timers and I'd like some tips
Too much speed kills the speed. 😉
An alternative way I've heard it said is, "Sometimes it's faster to go slower"
u sound like Jeff Cavaliere from athleanx... ahahhahahahahaha
Not enough speed not fun
Turn right to go left
@@takurotsuchiya4313 Actually useful info for drifts and power slides
Cool, but maybe do averages of 3 per because there is definitely a chance that human error could affect the times a bit
Not just that
You want to be looking at how much easy it becomes for you to actually do it lap after lap. That's something to consider as well
+1 to replication. Replicates will also allow you to assess on average which method is faster as well as how variable each method is. All are helpful diagnostics.
I was gonna comment this. There's no way 7 hundreds of a second in a single coner can be explained simply by the lifting. It's too small of a margin
Teaching an f4 driver what to do 💀💀💀
@@ivanbastos4963to be fair it looked like he lifted too much. The line was definitely much cleaner, less scrubbing of the tires. Indoor karting is all about being as smooth as possible when the track is grippy like this one you dont want to be understeering.
Him after 3 laps of flat-out cornering: Bono my tires are gone
*lewis did not like this comment*😂
I didn’t get it?
Bono: it's hammertime
@@andrjsjan4231Lewis has a habit of saying on the radio that phrase. He hasn't said it for a couple of years if my memory is right
That could be down to human error. That difference is so small to draw out which method is faster
I don’t make errors 😜… but in all seriousness, .07s is massive for a single corner at a karting track. It’s big even on a real track in a car.
@@CameronDasRacing do it without lifting 10 times and there will no doubt be 0.07s variance at least in those times. this video is far from conclusive.
@@lolnah8856he's not even talking about tenths but hundredths here
@@isaacsanchez7317 yeah lol. typo in my reply :)
This looks like a Dutch track
Loosing traction to turn into the corner more and clearing it faster then getting on power is so satisfying
"Slow in, fast out" - Jackie Stewart
Karting is all about smoothness and momentum and picking the right racing line. If you master all 3 of these then you’ll be better than the average person
Sir thats just racing in general, thats not karting specific lmao
"smoothness", "momentum", the fuck is that? Philosophy? 😂
@@rafaelnikolla5180it’s racing, like you know anything don’t you?
You can also drag the brake to induce rotation while keeping engine rpms up. That comes up a lot in national karting races and can be a huge time saver
For those who don't know, lift slightly transfers weight to the front tires helping with the grip while turning ✌🏿
And how do you do that?
@@om3667 lean.
@@om3667 physics. deceleration shifts the center of mass forward onto the front tires where there is usually more brake bias, precisely because of this. This decreases understeer.
Just let off the gas for a second. It shifts your weight forward, resulting in more traction in your front tires, that help steer. This is with any vehicle in a corner, not just go carts. Anyone and everyone should know this. Especially if you ride motorcycles.
@@JGRL0RD I hope you're trolling. Leaning does next to nothing.
It’s because the scrub of the tyres is taking away more speed than the engine can add. By going flat it also shifts the weight rearwards which produces understeer, which makes the phenomenon worse.
Corner times all depend on the equation Distance/Speed=Time , meaning you might be able to take a corner at 50kph but to do so you may need to cover 20m so it would take you 1.44 seconds (20m/50kph) to complete the corner.
Or you could take the corner slower say 40kph and as a result be able to turn tighter only needing to cover 15m to get through the corner so it would take 1.35 seconds even though you went at a slower speed (15m/40kph).
This gets more complicated once you factor in braking points, weight transfer, acceleration/deceleration, grip levels, road conditions and human error... but the same principle stands its just a matter of finding the racing line which allows for minimum amount of distance to be covered with the maximum amount of speed
What the fuck is "kph"? Seems like your acronym is missing a unit! 🙃
It really depends, how much the rear steps out.
Sometimes.
When I’m in a qualifying session, and it’s really close.
I’ll play around with leaning my body in different ways to see if I can produce more grip via body weight.
Although I don’t know the grip levels at this track. In similar corners, I find that leaning forward, whilst going flat is faster than both, flat out and lifting.
For me and my body weight, me leaning forward helps *a lot* with the turn-in.
OR
If your rentals let you do it, using both pedals is also faster both flat and lift.
More grip on those front tires on turn in 🧠
If the seat is adjustable always slide it fully up and don’t tell your buds 🤫🤫🤫
It’s all about keeping the momentum; overall speed, not hurting corner exit by overdriving the corner, keeping the car underneath you. Smooth is fast, but you don’t want the rpm’s to drop to much because that will hurt corner exit, so it’s a fine line of one way or the other. Also keeping the rpm’s up not bogging down motor, sometimes you don’t want to lift because you don’t want to let the rpm’s drop cause that will hurt your exit, but going through the corner wide open can bog down the motor and drop the rpm worse than lifting a little, Especially if the rear steps out can really hurt corner exit and momentum.
When you lift you`re putting grip back into the tires and that lets you corner a lot better. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast!
If you have big power you want to get straightened up as soon as you can for full throttle, if you don't have the big power, you can try to stay fast in the turn and carry thru it. There are some good videos out their explaining race lines and why some are better than others for certain set ups.
Smooth driving is always the fastest
Front wheel drive cars taught me how to take corners for better rotation. Lift then middle corner gradually onto accelerator.
His acting at the end with the point was so real. Ive had moments like that where my reaction would be genuinely the same.
Huh?
I used to get private lessons at night from this guy who used to own an indoor track. It wasn’t a very big track but once the session was over he would let me drive by myself, no extra pay, for about 30 minutes on the track it was amazing how much I learned on my own about how to position myself to exit a corner better and stuff like that.
Wow so much time saved !
A fraction of a second so much time saved?
These videos really help my karting, keep the good work up.
very usefull
Man glade I found your page bro.. definitely a tiny lift but you want to be of the throttle for as least amount of time that you can be.. the quicker you can get back on and apply the power the better
"Alright, I'm gonna prove to you that taking a corner flat iS nOT AlWaYS FastER tHaN lIftInG"
Thats all i was thinking about🤣🤣
dudes trying to talk while pulling like 2 gs
@@Scottyy788It's not the Gs, he was going over a bumpy bit of track at that point, causing his voice to sound warbly.
@@Scottyy788pulling 2 gs in a go kart with a top speed of like 40mph? No lmao 💀
shut you up @@Jaybiv
Slow down to go faster 🙂 that’s something I’ve always tried to teach training kids at the motocross track. And applies to so many different kinds of racing! Looking at your next turn rather than the ground 10 feet in front of you also helps incredibly
The real issue is that the cart isn't powerful enough and understeers too much to take advantage of going flat out.
Lack of power is not the issue here, in fact adding more power (while keeping everything else the same) would make the problem worse.
The issue is not enough grip on the front tires to turn properly in that corner and lifting off (=actually *cutting* the power) is the solution: the slight deceleration you get from that transfers weight to the front, which gives the front tires more grip, so the kart can make a tighter turn.
Clueless take
Been learning to not ALWAYS drive aggressive through the turns. Situations call for different actions that can effect your timing and even knock you off your line.
People actually believe that taking corners at full throttle is better? Even with new tires and perfectly calibrated suspension it's is always faster to slow into a corner and accelerate out.
At my local go-kart track there is a chicane where it’s faster to coast through, no brake or throttle, I had multiple crashes because I was braking hard then spinning out at the apex of the first turn of the chicane, one of these times that I spun out, I got hit by a kart that was going full speed that didn’t see me, which then got hit by a second kart, causing the first kart that hit me to get lifted onto my kart, probably concussing me and at least one other person involved in the crash and causing me to have to retire from the race early due to neck and shoulder pain from whiplash and a headache due to the crash. Subsequently one of the older drivers that saw the crash(I was 13 or 14 at the time) told me that I could just coast through the chicane. Thankfully all the people there were really cool, and when they were done with the race, some came up to me to console me and to try and make me feel better.
Lol your voice is killing me on this one. Keep the sound and do overlays bro bro
Lifting can put more weight on the front giving you a better turn in, which will also help your exit speed.
"I'm GoNnA pRoVe To YoU tHaT tAkInG a CoRnEr FlAt IsN't AlWaYs FaStEr ThAn LiFtInG..."
Fix your keyboard. Typing like a 5 year old make you look silly.
Why
@@wakeless673 - why what?
Try talking in a gokart bro of course he talks like that
In Rally, when we say we went flatout, it doesn't mean we didn't lift. It means we went to the maximum traction we had available. Any faster and the car would have left the road. Whether the traction was out 100% or 25% we went flatout to the conditions available.
how much did u test this? i would do it atleast 10 times of each to get better results.
i do agree with u tho
This is also true with my racing sim. Took me a long time to realize that just because you can go flat out through a turn without hitting the wall doesn’t mean you necessarily should.
Exactly.
If you go flat out on certain corners, you have a chance of stressing the tires so much they can lose traction.
But if you lift off a bit, you are guaranteed to keep all of your traction and grip.
Those double apexes are so satisfying
True specially in the indoor kiddy karts
in karting, unlike other forms of racing, you want to lift and blip the throttle as you turn so the backend comes round quicker, you see it a lot in videos of F1 drivers when they did kart's
Well done you’ve proven that overshooting a corner is detrimental 😂
Very good point! The more experience I gain, the more I find myself between 80-95% throttle, even on corners that are faster flat out; especially if I miss my reference points by a small amount. Then I build my way up to understanding what it takes to go flat out. Often when I’m learning a track I begin getting slower as I push the braking and acceleration points because I’m too late or too early or I try to stay flat out when in fact a small lift for rotation is better. For anyone reading look up aris.drive and his video on traction in ACC if you want to learn more about this subject!
I go top gear with it
SPEED AND POWER
0.07 is well within tolerance...
Disagree
@@SuperLeafyman There are numerous factors: humidity, tire temperature, track temperature, current fuel in tank, motor not running the same every time (mechanically), steering and a lot more. If you do this 10 or 20 times you will get a pattern, but a lot of factors play into this
For a corner this short, that’s A LOT of time. .07s in 10 corners is .7s… may as well pack up and go home 😂
0.07 faster on every corner of this track (TeamSport Docklands, roughly 8 corners that require lifting or actually braking) is 0.56s per lap, which would be a gap of 5.6s after 10 laps.
Let's say the average grid start session here is 20 laps. Assuming the drivers are consistent and the only difference is one driver lifting for this specific corner and the other going flat, then that would be a difference of 1.4s between them.
In racing if you can legally be a little faster, then there's no reason not to be.
I was talking about reproducable results, 0.07 s is within measurement tolerance and is influenced by the factors I meantioned above. You need to test this several times before coming to a conclusion
💯 a lot of amateur karters especially indoor don’t really use the brakes and just wang it round, losing momentum not just through tyre slip but having the karts revvs drop as well.
It's Silverstone in Zwanenburg 😄. My go to karting center.
Those karts love a little lift in tight stuff to grip up. The petrol ones sometimes a tap of the brake while staying flat will momentarily stop the motor but you’re back on the power faster.
Slow in fast out rotation is key 👍
well, when you overwhelm the lateral force of the tires mid corner, applying more throttle increases your slip ratio so just wheelspin, throttle lift mid corner allows rear weigh transfer and induces yaw (which you want) considering the steering angle
What mic do you use when you're karting cam?
A very very cheap and nasty one.
@@johncoops6897 it's really not that bad. I'm needing one myself hence the question
That number seems small but if you add up all the corners and laps of a race, that's actually a huge difference
Exactly
Great you figured out by yourself that going wide isn't faster than taking the optimal line and that you lose speed when you are understeering..
Seriously...not sure what this video is for lmao
You gotta know when to lift and when to stay flat, driving fast is an art, it takes practice and finesse.
Dude honestly thinks he's an f1 driver while he's on an indoor rental kart
He was in f4 and f3 few years ago.
@@simraceaddict yeah and was basically last
Are you an f1 driver though?
@@aadikanchankar8475 did I say I was? Why defend it
@@harry4454He was the United States Formula 4 champion...
Yeah, I realize it. Kissing the apex at bruxelles on spa is slower than going a bit wider to allow more rotate before accelerate.
"slow is smooth, smooth is fast" rings true every day
Its called lift off and it helps a lot to get your front tyres some extra grip while cornering
Your never want to be off the throttle and brake at the same time, coasting is slower
It depends on the acceleration of the kart, the 4T karts bog down so much if speed is reduced. 2T and electric karts accelerate far quicker and the throttle can help steer the kart, a more responsive motor makes it easier to use weight transfer to load the front end and increase grip to aid turning.
soo true = Sometimes a little lift Can Reset the path of tires and create more forward thrust on Exit as well as keeping the corner just a we bit shorter as sometimes flat out lets you slide out anyway
This only applied in karting and an fwd cars though, most of the times it is faster to take a corner flat out if the condition allowed you to.
It’s similar in Trackmania weirdly enough. You lose grip in some corners if you take them full throttle so by releasing the gas you end up a few tenths faster
Correct, nice video!!! Rotation is way better for me!
I've similarly learned in sim racing that braking at appropriate corner entries will shift the weight forward and provide more front grip, reducing the chances of understeer.
Its called trail braking
Cut the first corner earlier so you have better rotation and angle to make the second corner and get a faster exit through the last section.
I always take this corner flat when I’m here, thanks for the tip!
I went karting, took a similar hairpin corner that is visible at the end of video. Flat out. The back of the kart kept sliding out every time but I did not care. I thought it was fun. I did not crash that day with the kart. But one time when I took that corner my upper arm
snapped while counter steering. The doctors said the X-ray looked like when arm wrestlers break their arm. It also damaged my radial nerve, and my wrist and fingers are partially paralyzed, and will take a long time to heal. Don’t be too gas happy guys, lift that foot and stay safe
Not crashing isn't the kind of standard this video was made for. XD
However, if you wanna drift I'd recommend slamming the brake. In order to shortly lock up the rear axle while turning into the corner (it's like using the handbrake to drift in a car). Much better way to initiate a drift than going flat out into it, which is very likely to cause understeer first, means you'll go into it at a very high speed and by the time your kart does get into a drift, you might already be running out of track.
I’ve done this instinctively for years in video games and i kart racing. Never really thought of ever going flat out
I'm a semi driver and I never timed myself but I've been through a few corners 100s of times and I swear I can feel the difference
Anytime you go flat and hear your tires going crazy, yeah, time to consider lifting a bit. You want to hear the sticky tire separating from the surface type of a screech, not the tires sliding and skidding type of screech.
It depends if your in a rental kart or proper racing kart on grip acceleration through the corner on a well setup race kart will actually rotate the cart
I quite agree. Flat out is too difficult to control. A combination of throttle and braking works best. Go partial throttle and partial braking together.
Growing up with Hondas, lift-off oversteer is in my blood. haha
All about nailing the Apex and planning for next corner, optimize this for better lap times
I actually had a great time at a local karting track recently. I'm far from a pro driver but i'd be well above average. My sister never goes karting though and she's not into that sorta thing. Anyway I ended up getting a bit of a slow kart (throttle cables stretched most likely) so I was real slow in the straights but I could still fight in the corners. My sister was fast in the straighys but slow in the corners. She'd always take the inside line so I'd go wide and take her on the inside on the exit. It was just difficult because my top end was so bad. We had a great scrap that day. She got the better of me in the end but even still it was really fun.
At lime rock I was lifting into the uphill. I was scared. It took some balls but I finally did it flat out in 3rd. What a freaking rush !!!!!
I have raced at that track a few times and I’ve learnt when going below take the back as low and tight and possible as it’s way faster
While going flat , you're actually drifting too , so going full throttle doesn't make that much of a difference, while quick lift , it actually helps better control and better grip for more effective acceleration
There's so much feel into finding that precise compromise.
Unfortunately, I didn't reach that level.
Love racing, though. 👍
Bro is at the docklands doing teamsport karting. Decent track. However, I don't recommend it during peak times because people crash so much
Depends on the car drivetrain and all the other goodies you can put under the hood and tires all that good stuff
And another thing is when rental karting some karts are better than others so keep that in mind also
It's because you're 1) scrubbing off the excess speed with the tires 2) taking a compromised line to compensate. You actually scrubbed off more speed by sliding the kart than you needed to in order to complete the corner, so you end up going slower. It doesn't matter that you're flat out if you're going to force the kart into a slide to slow it down. That's the real reason why the 2nd method is faster - you didn't slow down as much by letting off the throttle slightly, compared to slowing down excessively via the tires - sliding the kart.
You can repeat the same experiment by letting off in both scenarios, but sliding the kart excessively to scrub off speed. The scenario with the excessive sliding would likewise be slower. You can't then draw a conclusion from that test that letting off is slower. The problem with your experiment is that you're changing more than 1 variable, and attributing the cause of the slowness to the wrong variable. You're changing both variables 1) throttle input, and 2) amount of kart deceleration caused by scrubbing of speed with the tires skidding. 2 is the cause of the slowness, not 1.
Rapidly tapping the throttle through the turn is the fastest and most effective way.
That go-kart track looks pretty damn cool because the road is so narrow it makes it seem really fast despite the fact that it's obviously not traveling at Ferrari speeds m
its crazy learning things like this at my local track every time i go. small adjustments lead to seconds
Slow in fast out is the best way. Thats what she said
This is HUGE in Shifter karting. Pretty big difference but most of the same rules apply
I don't know but what i do know is a famous quote by a former racer
"If in doubt, Flat-out"
love your videos man always reassure everything i learned from driving games!😂
In the first one you're dropping speed by scrubbing the tyres, in the 2nd you're dropping speed by lifting. Either way you're still dropping speed, lifting is just a far more controlled way to handle the kart.
When starting out, straightline brake, rotate, get straight, accelerate. The vehicle, regardless what it is, does its best on a straight line
Sometimes going slower makes you faster
Went to a new indoor karting place last week, all my experience is in sim racing and dirt karts, I found that I can take just about every corner flat and there’s two or so corners where I think i need to lift like this, i hear the tires going and the karts bog down, gonna try this next time I go 😎
I’m impressed you can notice seven tenths of a second while driving!
This is Teamsport at London docklands for anyone wpndering btw
"Hi. Today I'm at my local gokart track and I'm trying to get my money's worth."
Thats a smooth turn btw, boy knows this track well
Scientific theory with one example.
Flawless
Basically, get the best exit speed out of a corner with a straight coming.