GrapheneOS; the greatest mobile OS of all time. Common usability misconceptions DEBUNKED!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- GrapheneOS chatroom: app.element.io/#/room/#grapheneos:grapheneos.org
GrapheneOS feature list: grapheneos.org/features
Privacy violations of stock android: digitalcontentnext.org/wp-con...
More privacy violations of stock android: www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/An...
Samsung data collection: www.computerworld.com/article...
Samsung & Facebook partnership: / meta_services
00:00 Introduction
00:25 GrapheneOS
01:00 Google's data collection practices
01:15 Constant location tracking
01:30 Google tracks HOW You are moving, not just where you are
01:55 Read the rest of this in the video description link
02:15 Most applications require Google play services, unfortunately
03:00 Security features of GrapheneOS
04:05 Common misconceptions
04:20 Banking apps won't work on GrapheneOS - UNTRUE
04:42 Uber won't work on GrapheneOS - UNTRUE
05:35 Any app requiring Google play services WILL WORK ON GRAPHENEOS
05:49 but YOU set the permissions of GrapheneOS
06:09 You can turn off Google's access to sensors
06:26 Notifications don't work on GrapheneOS - UNTRUE
06:44 How to fix notifications on GrapheneOS
07:05 Why isn't Google privileged/unrestricted by default?
07:25 Push notifications work just fine!
08:20 It only works on a pixel? That doesn't sound secure!
11:05 Biggest misconception: you have to compromise convenience to have GrapheneOS' security
12:45 You want privacy? You must be crazy!! 
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When someones says «why do i care, i got nothing to hide» i normally just ask them if i can have their phone password and have a look around. Its really effective
That is a really great response. I will be blatantly stealing that from now on.
*Laughs at me actually giving said phone password*
No, seriously. That said, I have 2 phones for a reason lol, and the 2nd phone never goes out of my room.
@@ZX3000GT1 Noted. -NSA
I used to do the same but since im old, I went with SSN or tax return and just loved when the answer was no and I asked why and they answered cause its personal and none of my business. Always put a nice smile on my face to hear that. Some figured it out but most were oblivious that they own themselves.
@@ZX3000GT1 both are logged into your home Wi-Fi with its unique ip address, they are already linked on their end.
"Why concerned with all this if you have nothing to hide?" Tell that to the person who was asked by their doctor to take pictures of their kid's issue but for what reason I can recall. And then lose everything google related for having those pictures in his phone cause someone went thru his phone, called the police on him and cancelled all his services.
But he gave Google Photos permission to upload those photos, which he could have turned off on any regular Android phone. So grapheneos doesn't do anything special to stop that that regular android cannot
@@LowJSamuel yeah he did, which is why we need to inform more people about the right to privacy.
(Instead of having gfs with all the perms and no way to remove them)
The worst part is even AFTER the guy was cleared of wrongdoing by the police, Google still decided to "stand by their decision." This is why privacy matters. Everything can be taken away from you in an instant.
@@LowJSamuel By uploading *anything* to google photos as a new user, you're agreeing to the terms of service. In those terms of service it gives google the right to surrender any images depicting child abuse to the police.
Do they tell you that when using the service for the first time? No.
Is the user informed *at all* that this can happen during normal usage? No.
Just because it's in the TOS, doesn't mean it's fair to the consumer. Having the option AND it being disclosed is the ideal.
@@LowJSamuel There is truth to that, but you're still victim blaming... He shouldn't be treated like this regardless.
It's good to see this covered. I switched to a privacy focused rom with no GSF months ago and have been slowly spoofing my way to normality again. Google is truly the cancer that has been killing Android. Once you drop Google, so many little annoyances disappear.
For anyone using the Pixel 6a: After you have initially updated your phone with all the latest security updates, you will need to factory reset the phone before starting the graphene install process. This will allow the OEM unlock feature to be available. If you don't factory reset after updating the phone the OEM unlock will be greyed out. This only seems to be for the 6a and not the 6, 6 pro or 7 phones.
I also couldn't get windows update to install the fastboot patch so I had to manually download the pixel USB driver from google and update the driver via windows device manager. There are more detailed instructions for this on the graphene install instructions page. FYI using type-c USB 3 port on my laptop meant flashing the OS was super fast (only a few mins).
Great vid:-) , thanks !
I find it hilarious how the average person doesn't know shit about how software works and how it's designed, but they immediately turn around and try and defend the privacy invasion and inconvenience these companies force on their customers.
The average consumer needing "opt out" for all these permissions without that being clear is also kind of predatory for these tech giants. They know the people are clueless, so they do whatever they can.
I also really hate how many apps nowerdays just refuse to start up if you deny them any permissions they demand. Really gives back control to the user as it boils down to the old options: look at the demand list and if you dont like it dont install it. Great.
Average person doesn't understand how software works because certain media organisations engage in subterfuge to give them false information to sell their narratives & are not honest about the realities of hacking.
When I showed non-tech people the following video, they freaked out just how easily their "digital life" could be quickly compromised, see ruclips.net/video/fHhNWAKw0bY/видео.html
@@invalid8774 They’re called clickwraps and they’ve been here for a long time. Unfortunately they’re completely legal and there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it.
Well to be honest. Me as a none Programmer can hardly verify all the claims graphene OS does on their website. How do I know they are any safer?
@@eropis well, closest thing is getting recommendations from people who seem to know what they are talking about
I can already see Google if Graphene OS gets popular.
User: attempts to run Play services in sandbox
Google: for security reasons we cannot let you run Play services in sandbox mode
Then it just becomes an arms race of tricking the service that it's not in a sandbox. Don't think Google care enough TBH.
Google is actually working on having every Android app run inside a VM.
@@DavidManouchehri All apps already work that way, java/kotlin itself runs everything in a JVM
workarounds to spoof google play for other stuff already exist
@@DavidManouchehri Probably because of all the CPU vulnerabilities that keep coming out every 6 months.
My biggest issue with adopting graphene OS is that they only officially support in lifecycle phones and I always buy pixel phones late due to budgetary constrictions so by the time I get my phone it's no longer getting security updates from graphene OS because they follow the official security update schedule that Google provides
I understand the frustration, I am using a Pixel 3a which is EOL as well. However, there is not much point in getting GrapheneOS security updates if you're not getting firmware security updates. Fortunately the situation of getting only 3 years of security updates has improved with the newer pixels, where you'll get at leasst 5 years.
@@positivemelon7578 Operating system security patches are better than nothing at all for security updates even if the vender goes unpatched. Protects you from less sophisticated attacks like tap jacking
Well if you're going to use an old insecure outdated phone anyways, its still better if that phone is running an older version of GrapheneOS than an older version of the stock OS.
@@Zaptosis yes but it could still be slightly more secure and it would prevent e-waste. you just need proper disclaimers.
@@deadringr Thats exactly what I'm saying... GrapheneOS on a 6 year old pixel is still more secure than a 6 year old pixel without GrapheneOS.
So far, minus giving up a microSD slot with the Pixel 5, with GrapheneOS and the settings changes, this is just like a normal phone. This is fantastic, thank you so much for doing this video, Louis!
Do frequent backups, my 5a had a motherboard failure and apparently it's a very common issue among pixel phones
Does ot have a usb port? If so, you can use an external sd card reader or external soundcard for the headphones.
again, we need more videos like this. Calling out genuine improvements and pro-consumer businesses, or even just business practices. It's easy to whale on apple and whatnot, but the simple reality is the solution to the issue is consumer education. Get people to start buying based on how pro-consumer the product actually is, get people thinking about the fact that some products DON'T actively screw you over.
TempleOS for life RIP King Terry
People are just not bothered no matter how much information is being collected. Last year in India WhatsApp rolled out some pretty serious privacy violating policies yet most people were not ready to change to other apps like Telegram or Signal, which offer the exact same service. Such is the inertia with people.
Sad but true
It depends on partners you communicate with. When you switch to Telegram, but they dont, with whom will you communicate?
Most people dont have time or care about these things because they most likely have more important things they need to take care of in their life (like raising children)
Thanks for this. I’ve been thinking about picking up a Pixel 7 and loading GrapheneOS - and giving it a run in comparison to my iPhone. Great information, Louis!
One of the things that really opened my eyes was when I installed Pi-Hole and saw that every single time I unlocked my phone, it made a call home to Google's servers. One of my favorite things to do now is when I have friends over, open up network calls to from their phone on my TV so they can see how often it talks about what they are doing.
you sound really fun to hang out with
I’d definitely hang out with this guy. 💯
@@Robbie-mw5uu yeah that's a well known personality archetype yes who doesn't know one of these
@@AlkaVirus before i expanded the comments I knew this comment would be here
I really don't know what this means :/
Would Futo be able to help the GrapheneOS team talk to a phone hardware creator, like PinePhone, to work on creating a device that is secure enough? I can't give up my Sansung Galaxy S10e, I love the size, headphone jack, SD card, and durability it has given me.
We'd love to find a hardware vendor open to creating something that includes the security features in the pixel, has microSD and headphone jack, to have them work with this team. I understand the money is not there for most people to do that on the level necessary for it to be viable, but it's on Eron's radar and a major interest of us all. louis@rossmanngroup.com , my email is always open if you have a lead.
The hardware can't suck though.
Something like Asus's ZenFone 9 if it could run GOS would be incredible
Same, I have a Samsung Galaxy S7 which I absolutely love, I've had a S21 & I currently have a pixel 4a running GrapheneOS but I still continue to daily drive my S7 because its just a phone I love. Obviously done what I can with ADB to make it more private but it ain't GrapheneOS levels of privacy & security that's for sure.
@@cheater00 likewise, I love my little Motorola, not everyone has $$$$ to spend on a Snap-On phone
=SONY XPERIA 5 IV..........I'VE GOT XPERIA 5 II SO I CAN RECOMMEND AS HAVE CONFIDENCE...EVERYTHING IS ON PLACE LIKE U WANT............AND PURE ANDROID..........SO COULD'VE BE CHANGED ON GRAPHENEOS,I THINK
......ONLY PROBLEM I'VE GOT IS ABOUT HOLES ON DYNAMIC AND MICROPHONE ARE GETTING DIRTY,BUT THAT'S HOW I'M USING IT
i watch all your videos, i think they're great, and i love to see the new stuff your doing, this tutorial is very informative ill have to follow it!
I'm happy to see you make this video I've been using graphene and aosp for a couple years now.
My best bet with misconception about uber/banking apps not working is that it came from rooting your phone, which causes SafetyNet to trip and since most banking apps check it to make sure the software wasn't modified in any way, they will no longer work due to safety concerns
So people now think that if you modify any part of your system, everything will stop working immediately
At least that's my best (worst) guess
With unlocked bootloader you are not able to use some applications even with default OS (like google pay/related, games with extreme anti-cheat, etc) I've dealt with this
It's actually because GrapheneOS didn't always have the ability to install Google Play services. And without those services, some apps totally or partially just don't work. That's why GrapheneOS got a reputation for having bad app compatibility. But like Louis showed, Google Play (and the apps that depend on it) can be used no problem these days. (And it's in the ordinary unpriviliged app sandbox, meaning you can opt-in and remove its permissions, etc.)
GrapheneOS is one of the few OSes/ROMs that work with a locked bootloader.
Most other ROMs don't, and many apps detects that
@@starkle how well does GrapheneOS perform on general? A while back, Techlore showed that GrapheneOS was much slower than stock Android and CalyxOS. But if things are better now, I'd be interested in maybe trying out Graphene again
@@oofyeetmcgee The only real prominent performance difference was the far slower initial app launches, which was the result of the Pixel 3's inferior chip (which Techlore tested with). The Pixel 3 line isn't even supported anymore, and the difference is unnoticeable on newer hardware. And even so, there is a setting to disable the security feature that causes the slower app launch if you really care.
I agree with your boss. I returned my Pixel 6a after a day of use and went back to my 4a. The 6a feels terrible in the hand. And my hands are not small. edit> I installed CalyxOS on my Pixel 4a nearly six months ago, but went back to Android because of how microG worked (it's still privileged) . Now that I understand that Graphene sandboxes Google services, I may give it a try. Thank you, Louis!
For as long as it's supported :p
Boss?
@@wallofriogrande oh ffs just stop
@@wallofriogrande Big Boss?
@@MrGamelover23 I've still got another 11 months of support for the 4a (non 5G). Plenty of time for me to find another phone to fit my needs.
Would like to hear about the photo and video quality. Since pixels use age-old camera hardware and rely on computational photography, are the pictures and videos taken from a graphene os pixel good? Also, how is the battery life before and after graphene os?
Was on the fence before this video. Now I am sold. Hope my experience is a good one. Thanks for taking the time to make this video. If it works well for me, I will share with others as well.
I don't need Google's data to figure out where you are. You're in your chair, in Texas...
Haha, cheers! And thanks for sharing and educating us, as always.
I sure am. It's better here. :)
@@rossmanngroup You do know about the power BS in Feb '21, and how the state allowed predatory price gouging happen with nat gas, right? We have our own different kinds of stupid here. Usually better (definitely better than NY), but still plenty of stupid to go around. :) No escaping humanity
@@meeponinthbit3466 Every state has its stupidity.. I'd take these over my old state's any day....
@@rossmanngroup You might not say that if you were pregnant and a rape victim or with an unviable pregnancy forced to carry it to term. Texas is a whole other level of stupid. They should secede so the world can see how living in Texas would be like living in islamic state. Hope you don't get shot.
@@meeponinthbit3466 Fair, but we try to minimize how invasive the stupid gets, rather than celebrating it.
I've been running GrapheneOS full time for over a year now. Was initially concerned about usability so held onto another phone running stock Android at first, but over time the graphene phone has completely replaced it. Runs everything I need it to and the lack of bloatware/incentive to avoid invasive apps has the added benefit of keeping me from staring at my phone so much.
Do you use any Google services on it?
Can you make a copy of Android and go back to it like rooting?
Does Google map work properly?
@@mahipalsinhdabhi9223 I don't bother with it. Magic Earth works fine.
they even call it graphene....i was imagine how real graphene will react to phoneradiation....and this os calls themselfs grapheneOS...better dont touch it, just by the fact craphene is reacting to smartphoneradiation
Great video ! Thanks ! I have a question : which app are you using to display the network trafic across all the apps ? (Down/Up)
I would love to know how you feel about the privacy of an iphone in comparison. I have no doubt that grapheneOS is more secure over all, and im sure iOS is more private than google's shipping flavors of android, but im not sure which IOS leans more towards.
iOS is more secure that is true, it gives you more control over the permissions of the different apps and all. But sadly its not more private compared to google at all. The approach is different. Google wants it's share of your data in android but also lets other developers to spy on you as well through tracking libraries in their apps. Apple however just wants it all for themselves. The phone is super closed up and you have never any idea what is going on in the background, you have no control over it. And trust me these devices are built from the ground up to screw the customer over, even in HW but well that is not an issue of privacy. But what i mean is that apple also tracks whether you run or sit or tracks your location and your habits and everything, absolutely the same as google. They use it for their own stuff of course but they also sell this data to advertisers, they just want to be the only player in that space. Apple likes to have all the control when it comes to their products.
I hate how practically no phone will give you every little feature you want, you have to compromise somewhere, even though these flagships can cost more than a decent computer, I've come to kinda accept it though and just keep multiple phones for different uses, for example my LG is a media/music device, so at some point I may consider getting a pixel as my travel phone.
Asus's Zenfone is pretty close to a no compromise. But the software isn't on the same level as the Android developers
@@YounesLayachi It's ok, but I actually like their ROG gaming phones better, no notch, heard nice things about the front facing speakers and the novel feature of dual usb ports and a massive battery, so yeah that or Sony are just about the only flagships I'll even consider these days.
Okay. ROG are nice but tablet sized xD
@@YounesLayachi Yeah true, I don't mind large phones if they're actually comfortable to hold though, I had a OnePlus 7 Pro and it hurt my fingers with its super thin curved edges.
I miss keyboards. I wish I could afford a Planet Computers Communicator or similar...
I am a GrapheneOS user and can agree with everything you said 100%. I am SO happy a RUclipsr with your reach did a video on this. GrapheneOS should be the norm, not the outlier. Keep it up Louis and thank you.
unfortunately it isn't available on non google phones ..if it were ported to midrange phones it would be great
Maybe you can upload a STEP BY STEP tutorial for the rest of us because all the friggin ones I could find skip so much stuff I couldn't figure it out.. I'm frustrated as hell trying to get thsi stuff to work... and I need to be spoon fed
How can something be the norm when it only officially supports a phone that has a teeny tiny market share
never heard of the OS before, so thanks for introducing. will try to follow the development and see if at one point it will work with devices from other manufacturers
This is informative, and unfortunate
I was looking for this comment.
The easiest way to explain Pixel phones :
They only have Google spying and they allow removing that.
Every other phone has Google spying + Samsung spying and Facebook spying and Microsoft and .. and they don't allow removing any of that
can't say I have that issue on iphone!
@@schizofennec stop the cap
@@schizofennec hat emoji
no but seriously do you really think apple cares about privacy?
@@bartek1887 why do you think its the chosen phone for Epstein's?
@@schizofennec If that was sarcasm, it was genius.
Only supported on Pixel phones - hope it expands that to other Android phones soon.
@Hoxton more importantly, it won't unless other manufacturers meet the same level of security as Google, which is never gonna happen.
Graphene said they are collaborating with some unnamed OEM to meet those criteria but it's a wish and we have yet to see it work
My friend flashed his non-Pixel phone to Graphene and jit works except for GPS.
@Hoxton nah my Realme C3 after installing Lineage OS, it worked fine. Then out of curiosity, I tried to relock the device, it bricked. I eventually got the device working after reflashing it back to its original ROM.
If your device has custom ROMs there's little in the way preventing you from building GrapheneOS from source
Verizon does not let you unlock the bootloader. Hopefully that changes.
I have been running GrapheneOS as my daily driver on my Google Pixel 4 for years, and I can tell you that it has been an impeccably smooth experience. Updates are consistent, I have not needed to worry about trackers or any similar nonsense as the OS makes it perfectly clear what tracking happens if at all and I am asked if I want to disable it before it even starts happening which is wonderful for me. It also has allowed my Pixel 4 to outlive the standard Google support for the device meaning I will get feature updates for longer than the stock OS. The phone's been thrown in the mud, submerged in water, and I've personally repaired every issue that has come up on the device and the thing essentially looks and runs like it was the day I got it (although I'm coming up on needing a battery replacement soon).
Would've been useful to also mention battery life, coz Google's apps use plenty of the device's background battery & data consumption.
I'm also curious about all the different use cases people have with Android phones. Do third party launchers work fine (coz they don't always work fine nowadays even on Pixels)? Do games run just as well? Can apps be granted special permissions that you normally need to root access to grant? Any compromises on modern Android features like Material you? More freedom in using different voice assistants or is it not even an option?
Probably worth looking into
If pegasus can bypass firmware flashes im sure the "titan" chip or their own hardware is a risk for being backdoored from the supply chain, that's a thing with modem hardware as well. Nobody can say how differently they can or can't leverage the soc etc just from a feature standpoint, or if any of the voice recognition, isp etc can be accessed through drivers.
Thank you for promoting stuff like this. I use lineageOS and it works great for me. It's not as polished or private as graphene but still way better than stock oxygenOS
Edit: and really thank you for telling to remove the Google play services the permissions, I forgot to do that
How to install that OS
@@EBRIMA-cz6io there is a tutorial on its website. Just look on their website for your phone. Maybe there's a RUclips tutorial
Thanks
I was on the fence on usability (and not wanting to buy new hardware yet) but this really puts some of those issues at ease. Also to get ready for when I do get a pixel is to begin moving to digital minimalism so that i dont get "vendor locked" by some random app that is ultimately unimportant in my life goals.
Buy one NOW.
hiya great video what phone do you normally use? or used before the Pixel please? keep up the great work. 👍🇬🇧
Having a secure, private OS is a big step for privacy but keep in mind even if the OS/apps don't spy on you, your location can be triangulated to within 50ft with ANY phone since the phone must communicate with (ping) the cell towers constantly. If you need privacy (whether for good or bad reasons) either (1) use a burner phone not in your name (duh) or (2) turn off the phone and place in a faraday pouch ** however the accelerometer may still be active and recording movement from your last known position. The latter method is the reason I believe manufactures don't make batteries removable for phones made in the last 5+ years - yes it makes the phones thinner, but now you don't know what circuits are being powered even when it's "OFF" it can still spy on you. Some privacy centric phones include hardware switches to turn off the individual sensors - mic, camera, accelerometer, etc. Again, using ANY phone is a privacy risk if it connects to a public network.
brother just shut up and stop being paranoid
Or you can just use your cellphone with wi-fi, without a chip
@@Gustavo-wt4qq Yes, better BUT Wifi will give away your activity too. Wifi + VPN is a bit better, but ultimately it's what websites you connect to - best to use a pseudonym for posting on social sites, YT, Google, MSN, etc if you want better privacy. It's also the info you give away that matters. Clear cookies or use incognito mode too.
i wouldn't spend more then 30 dollars on a smartphone, and i don't expect very serious levels of privacy or security because i use the phone outside for the most part. my android phone has no sim card, i just use WIFI. honestly i would prefer to have a smartphone when outside.
Thank you to OP and everyone in this thread. I personally keep in mind bug-out options for witness protection type reasons (different situation similar idea) so this info is very valuable regarding phone tracing. So thank you
I couldn't agree more! I got a new Pixel 6 about 6 weeks ago and have been using GrapheneOS as my only mobile OS since. I have no complaints - I love it! I also love that you've awarded them with a Legendary grant! That's awesome! If I had the means to do likewise, I absolutely would.
Hey Louis, who’s your boss? Genuinely curious since I thought you worked for yourself.
ruclips.net/video/OJPmbcU-Vzo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/xZ1rLq4OH8s/видео.html
@@tailsorange2872 I haye how smart that was 🥂😭🤝
@@rossmanngroup I thought those were going to be links to your cat videos
Clinton.
@@John-McAfee Doesn't work with snapdragon? Well, saved me 15 minutes.
Great video. I am assuming that, in addition to adding security, cutting down all of the callbacks saves battery? Also, perhaps helps some with the Pixel's famed over-heating issues?
As far as I managed to find, GrapeneOs will not pass SafetyNet check and as such many apps will not work or will work in reduced capabilities - even with Google play framework installed. Im talking things such as Google Pay - requires unrooted, safety net passing device(or spoofed to think it is), Netflix and other streaming will not work or work with Widevine L3 instead of L1 giving worse quality of content. Can't confirm that's the case 100% but it seems to be from my "research"
Apps that won't let me play video or audio without safetynet are apps that will never get my money.
I would suggest using a BRAX2 phone from Rob BRaxman.
@@rossmanngroup Nice conviction to have, but that kinda limits your point about "zero real software compromises" when looking at the average user.
on rooted oxygenOS, widevine l1 is easily possible alongside safetynet although on a lineage it got much harder lol
@@rossmanngroup I would be surprised if you have not hear of or tried the Brax2 phone. Check out Rob Braxman.
BTW, MAC randomization has been a feature of Android since version 10 I believe. I've used it on my Pixels and Samsungs and am using it now. I'd give GrapheneOS a try if it wasn't for Knox and my locked bootloader
Samsung stinks. I'm so done with them. My 21 ultra is shyte
@@920WASHBURN my s22 ultra is way below my expectations.
@@luminumlx2604 I like my S22 ultra
@@strout2944 i feel like mine is.. like a midrange phone
Not all MAC Randomization is the same. There are issues with the vast majority of standard MAC randomization on devices, GrapheneOS fixes these.
While I love the mission that GrapheneOS is on, its limitation to Google Devices (while justified) is what keeps me from using it. Until it's available for more devices, I'll keep my eyes on Android Forks for devices I'm actually interested in (like /e/OS and SailfishOS - Though Sailfish has basically the same problem, but for Sony Phones).
Most of them don't really offer security improvements though, they just remove google so there is no on device tracking & use the standard security from AOSP (which is still really good).
GrapheneOS stands out above all the other privacy OS's as the undisputed champion.
@@Zaptosis Yeah, being able to run it on the devices I already have would be super useful. But I can't see creating more e-waste and paying a huge bill just for a newer phone, when my current one does still work perfectly fine.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Thats fair, I actually have a GrapheneOS phone but I still use a Samsung Galaxy S7 running the stock os lol. However I heavily gutted the tracking using ADB to remove a bunch of bloat & spyware.
Is it private? Mostly. Is it secure? Hell no, but I love the phone & am willing to accept that risk. Plus I doubt I'll be targeted by a state hacking company. When this phone is truly unusable, then I'll switch to GrapheneOS, I'm just not a fan of the current line up of pixels. Too big.
I'm waiting for a good in screen fingerprint reader & an under display camera. When that technology is available is when I plan to switch my daily driver. Luckily some Chinese companies are already making phones with under display cameras so I'm guessing 1 - 3 years for Google to do it. Durring that time I'm more than happy to continue using my Galaxy S7, love that phone.
oh Man i always wanted to try the Sailfish OS even when it first came out. And funily enough i also love Sony phones lol. They have been trash for a while after their fall from grace but recently i absolutely love their conservative and different approach. Sadly tho Sailfish works only on the midranger Xperia 10 series while i am using the Xperia 5 III so i can't try it. Tho I have seen a review of Sailfish OS recently and seems like the OS is a bit too much stuck in the past these days, it struggles with features that android struggled back in gingrebread days. It has problems like slow webview and laggy scrolling of everything and battery life isn't the best. To this day i don't get why canonical abandoned Ubuntu Touch. It felt like it got so far and if they continued it could have been usable today. Seeing the other linux being developed to work for phones now and the hype around it, it just makes me sad.
Thanks for this video! Just installed on a Pixel 7. Am loving it so far.
GrapheneOS sounds like a cool project. With the walking/running/cycling/driving thing, that I feel is something useful. For example if I were driving and there was a collision on my route, for maps to be able to detect people moving through it on a bike and be able to distinguish that from cars, it would be more accurate as to whether the collision has been cleared or not and re-calculate best routes accordingly. My thought process is that I see it as a network and I am willing to partake in because it gives me (and others) the best service possible. So I give my data and everyone benefits from me being a little statistical data point, however small. As a developer I understand the value to the users in having these kinds of statistics. I can't imagine how poor Google maps would be if not for the insane amount of data that is continually processing so it has an accurate picture of traffic for example. People need to participate in order for it to work. I'm happy to be one of those people. But I do think it's nice to use open source software that's gives you lower level control.
In maps, after opting in, that makes sense. I think he was talking about OS level tracking, which you have no options to opt out of.
I really hope the GrapheneOS is adapted to other devices as Pixel isnt accessible in other areas of the world.
Kinda curious if google books, games, and other content can still be usable.
there's literally a faq page on it, stating that if you want it on something else, its up to you, or the community to port it. they're sticking to pixels for the forseeable future, unless someone manages to come out with something the dev team likes better.
moving away from google by supporting google via buying phones from them seems a bit counterproductive.
@Zaydan Naufal your best bet is to bought it secondhand on OLX or wherever you want, Pixel 4 is kinda cheap rn, about 3-4mil rupiah
I installed GrapheneOS on my 6A because of your recent coverage of it and I am loving it.
thanks this video was actually very helpful to clear up some questions
This does help clear up a lot of misconceptions and makes a solid argument for the OS... outside of the fact that I'd need to fork over in the neighborhood of a grand, to Google themselves no less, for a phone that can run the damn thing. I could get an Index VR headset with all the trimmings for that much!
If this ever becomes available for more budget phones I'll be on it like Doritos dust on fingertips, but I have my limits for what I'm willing to spend on a device that'll be unusable after a few years anyway because of the planned obsolescence of one of its many components.
I would be curious to hear more about why you're so confident in the security of the pixel hardware, both from a feature perspective and a back door perspective. You're definitely more qualified than me on that.
I first thought about how to make something completely private as soon as you put a sim in it but I realized there are some things that can’t be as easily controlled and bypassed yet. I installed graphene after watching your other videos about it, can’t wait to see what good android is
Thanks for the vids. I saw one where you were talking about setting up a place in Texas where people could learn. Is that a go now?
I was looking at this and strongly considering it already. But you showed me though completely sold me.
I think the next phone upgrade that I do is going to be a graphine os phone.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Since you are denying all of the data being transferred to Google servers, does this also mean that you get a slight bump in battery life?
I installed CalyxOS on the Google Pixel 3 XL that I got as a gift for my girlfriend to see if she'd be able to find any issues. Only issue thus far is that Mortal Kombat wasn't able to work and that the phone came with a camera that wouldn't focus since it was used (that I'm going to repair in about a week). I don't think that people understand that you're not actually giving up any functionality by going with a non-stock operating system, the big ones all work just fine and are fully functional (and are free!).
Jup, back in Android 4 days when I switched from Samsungs laggy touchwiz to an unofficial Lineage build (including oc kernal and built-in root) I left no functionality behind. Everything worked absolutely the same. No wait, it didn't. The system ran better and was on a newer OS version. So it was quite the improvement.
@@HappyBeezerStudios That is the thing tho. It used to be like that. It's not anymore. Before the android skins were usually unnecessary and slowed the system down. The pure android looked better and ran better and had less bloatware. Today tho ? The stock android is considered the barebones android and the best version of android is considered OneUI with it's features and everything. Not even talking about how back then unlocking your bootloader was no big deal. Nowdays Samsung disables the Knox layer for good so no encryption and security features for you even if you install the stock rom back. I think they even disable the cameras as well today. Also with almost every custom rom you don't get as good drivers as you have on stock and what suffers the most from this is the Camera, the quality is just not as good and that is a big problem for a lot of people. Also safety net is a big thing. If your device won't pass, a lot of apps won't work that well. And btw evn if it all still works, you do realise that like ninety percent of all apps on google playstore uses google's firebase codebase that has tracking built in anyway right ? If you don't want to get spied on you have to go full open source sadly.
BROTHER, YOU ARE THE BEST!!! You oooh really helped me!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
I’ve been wanting to do something like this for awhile, but Louis (and a pretty sweet deal on a 6a) finally got me to actually do it. I’ve been having fun learning and experimenting. Still in the transition phase with my iPhone, but I really like it. I like the control I have.
If I had the money and connections for the right equipment I'd get an IMEI catcher to test and see if Pixel hardware attempts surveillance at a firmware level. Unfortunately a study has not been done on this yet.
I wouldn't be surprised. You'd think Google would lock them out of doing this
I think Google figures it's fine to let a relatively minor group of people escape the net as long as they get to make money off the phones and get free security research so people will never be able to crack a phone with a locked boot loader
honestly most phones would have some sort of backdoor probably requested by the govt to put there or somthing, probably at firmware or bootloader level, something similar to what intel management engine is, it has unrestricted hardware level access and is all closed source
iOS has also had MAC address randomization for awhile too. Good to see it in Graphene (they may have had it before iOS for that matter!)
So has android since android 10 in 2019
Well, Android has it since Android 8.
Yeah, but Apple and Google likely log those MACs so they can be the ones to match your relevant activity back to a single user/device.
I have it on Android Pie (v9.0), pixel 2
@@MM-cz2yh I was locked to Android 7 when I REALLY needed that
Bruuuuh
Just bought a Pixel 6 Pro as a result of this video and then looking into Graphene OS - many thanks for bringing this to the fore Louis. One question though - you kept referring to your 'boss' - but aren't you the owner of Rossman Repair Group? Did I miss a merger or acquisition somewhere?
exactly what i'm wondering
What about camera...is it as good as on official OS
Great video mate, thanks for taking the time. Comprehensive
Hey Louis. Thank you for demo'ing this. I'm really wanting to try it but how do you trust this software? The lead dev Daniel Micay is not really known for his maturity or emotional stability in dev spaces. The other devs are all black boxes. How do we know they're not bad actors? I'm having a really hard time trusting this group of people more than I would Samsung or someone else.
Is there any help for me or is it just "trust it or don't"? Maybe you could point me in the direction of allaying my fears? Maybe a video on who they are and why they should be trusted?
Anyway, thank you for all you're doing for privacy and r2r.
Maybe their incentives are aligned with yours and therefore you can trust them to act in their own interest which will in turn benefit you.
That's a concern of mine for sure. Trust people who audit the code. It's open source
The problem with solutions like these is their extremely limited device support. You have to have one of a specific few models or you're SOL. It's just not enough
THIS.
The Graphene devs' attitude towards supporting other devices is bordering on snobbery and it's hard stopping this OS from being used to any significant degree. Yes, the Pixels may have advanced security hardware that other phones don't have, and that is quite nice, but most all people don't need protection from a state-level threat and they DON'T want to run Google's feature-limited Pixel phone. They just need a trustworthy OS that doesn't spy on them. This "Only on Pixel" bullshit is holding this OS back majorly.
@@arnox4554 I agree. The people at GrapheneOS say only Pixel phones meet the security standard of GrapheneOS. I agree that Google Pixel phones are secure hardware-wise but I don't think Pixel phones are the only secure Android phones. I don't see non-Pixel Android phones get hacked easily.
One of your best videos. I love videos like this.
As someone who has brought up support for multiple devices throughout the years, this is bringing back my enthusiasm to get back to making new "custom ROMs" for people. Google is too deeply imbedded into OEM android operating systems constantly data mining. Aaaaaaand GrapheneOS is open source! Yeaaaa that's gonna happen on my OnePlus Nord N200 5G in the not so distant future.
yep, i dont want to live in a world where privacy is a notable feature. i hope this becomes this more mainstream
It won't. There is zero beenfit to companies to NOT get your data and the vast majority of people don't give a shit. Privacy is dead, unless we have a total blackout we lost this one.
Graphene is awesome, big props to the devs. Personally I use "e OS" made by the e Foundation for similar reasons. It is a fork of Lineage so it works on more devices. It is not as secure as Graphene but it does have similar privacy benefits. Maybe when I get a newer phone I will switch to Graphene.
Great video thank you for putting this out there.
Very nice and detailed video. Was wondering how your 5g,Bluetooth, and wifi signal is on the device.
I know Samsung is just as bad, but I've excluded the pixel phones from any consideration due to it being associated with Google. This has changed my mind and my next phone will likely be a pixel explicitly because of this operating system. Thank you, Louis.
Samsung are much worse it's not even comparable.
On a Samsung phone you're BOUND to use the default software and it comes with Google services, Samsung services, Facebook services, Microsoft apps, and a bunch of other apps. Basically all the tech giants spy on you.
While on a pixel it's only Google and you can easily get rid of that
I have a galaxy s10+ that can last me another 2 - 4 years but grapheneos is really tempting
Buy a Google phone to get away from Google... The OS looks really cool, but I don't know if I want to downgrade my Galaxy S8+ to something that doesn't even have a headphone jack or SD card slot so I can use it.
@@chitlitlah Exactly. As cool as GrapheneOS is, my phone will always have a headphone jack and a full screen (no hole punches, notches, or other cutouts allowed). Every phone on the GrapheneOS support list fails that test, meaning I'm not buying those phones and in turn not using GrapheneOS.
I don't even care. I'll just run an old, unsupported phone into the ground. And then buy another one off eBay. The phone industry cannot have my headphone jack, ever.
@@mjc0961 I mean I just use a USB-C earphones. But it is annoying if I have to move my laptop over to my vintage hifi as my phone doesn't have an analogue output which could've been used easily :( Not sure what other uses there are for a basic analogue port.
i do wish the developers behind releases like this would make it support more phones than just the google pixel or samsung galaxy models... i dont plan on ever getting one of those phones unless they get the microsd card slot back because i value the microsd card slot that highly, which is why i have a nokia 8.1 atm
And that is why I have a Sony Xperia 1 iii ATM
That's awesome, I have total confidence moving forward with this now. Other than the privacy advantages, what else might I be able to do with my phone with this level of control?
I have a Pixel 7 on the way. You've convinced me to give this OS a shot.
So tempted to try it, I really like the concept of play services running in a sandbox, I think that would give me a lot of peace of mind relative to something like lineageos that runs microg with full privileges. But man I am just not sold on google pixels at all, hundreds of dollars for phones with no sd card slot, no headphone jack, relatively small batteries. Anyone know of an OS that does something similar but has more varied supported devices?
LineageOS... all the other ones are mostly only compatible with Pixels
headphone jack is one of the core things for me, and i cannot imagine using a phone without it. hoping google caves in and re-adds the headphone jack at least for one of the next budget models (like idk 7a or whatever the next pixel phone is) cause when they do that i might actually seriously consider buying one as an upgrade to my current phone (not that i need an upgrade realistically, im doing just fine, the phone works just fine, but given its a xiaomi phone its a privacy nightmare. yes im saying im been backed into a corner where to use my phone i need to give up a lot of my privacy. the way i go about this right now is using blokada and using as little google services as possible - aurora store, f-droid, florisboard, youtube vanced, microg, etc, tho i am aware its nowhere near as private as graphene)
I honestly doubt it, the majority of consumers have already caved and bought wireless earbuds so Google, Samsung, and Apple have already won this fight.
if the jack is the only thing keeping you from trying this - consider the wired usb-c -to- audio adaptor
I get it with the headphone jack, but if you haven't yet, I'd try a pair of "True Wireless" earbuds. They've come a long way -- unless you are on them literally all the time, you never have to charge them (since their case is the charger), and they don't have any stuff dangling around your neck or ears unless you specifically want it. Connection issues seem to be a thing of the past as well.
I used to demand access to a headphone jack as well, but I haven't used wired headphones since going true wireless 3+ years ago.
The lack of a headphone jack is an inconvenience, but easy to work around. I use a USB-C-to-headphone-jack dongle. While this isn't ideal, it is good enough.
Asus Zenfone 9 is coming out for the US soon. It has a headphone jack and SD card- with a few different colored phones. Mind you, its a mid ranger.
Interesting content.. the biggest issue I had when trying alternative OS types was the lack of good camera support, especially when timely activation of the flash.
I had to give up in the end..
I might be interested if issues like these are resolved. But until then I will just have to stick with my Samsung and have zero privacy 😞
11:59 I like that the logo is a decoy to prevent outsiders from knowing what is actually on the phone.
I am highly skeptical that any OS running on a custom chip google designed will be able to get around the (likely) hardware-backdoors in the chip itself. Anyone have more information on this? This probably counts for any of the pre-tensor chips as well since I don't believe they are open source but the situation is even more exxagerated by google-designed chips
Think of your Graphene experience as a Sandbox, and anything you do within that is hidden or 'encrypted' from outside. Memory is partitioned for it, and Android isn't there to run anything or interpret data. The issue with Android is they allow apps through their store but force them to work a certain way so they are reliant on Google services. Graphene mitigates that issue. A teleco can ping your location so not much point stressing about Tensor
this sounds like a privacy nuts(me) wet dream....only problem is weve been conditioned to share everything for so long, that i dont even begin to know what type of data id want to secure from google and the rest of the eyes. the stuff i dont want other people to see is already secure, aside from stopping invasive metadata idk what id hide.
Just make two profiles. The main profile has google play not given network access, location, and scanning turned off. Give the second one everything on.
Then just switch back and forth between "Location and data sharing on" and "Location and data sharing off" as you need them. At least having control over it.
Do you really think Google is incapable of putting a hardware back door on their phones?
If you don't trust Google software, why would you trust Google hardware?
its great to see this project is still churning along.
Appreciate your video on this. I was looking for a good decent android os with security features. Thanks.
Nice Video! May I know does the broken pixel 6 fingerprint sensor works in GrapheneOS?
Yes
"I don't need privacy because my actions are questionable, but because your judgement and intentions are." - someone I met on Matrix (that decentralized chat protocol that's trying to replace Discord)
Great video, mate. I'll definitely use this OS if I ever go back to a smartphone
PLEASE tell me what chair is that, and can you give any advice regarding that mouse you are using, i want a trackball mouse, but i've never used one, does it take long to get used to?
I would love to do this with my Pixel 6 Pro. But unfortunately, I bought it from Verizon. Verizon worked with Google to permanently lock the bootloader for their version of the phone and they will NEVER let me unlock it to root the phone, no matter how I want to use it. I've been hoping an exploit unlock would become available to change all the software to the unlocked version, but I haven't seen any yet.
The reason I got it through Verizon is because I got $650 with a "discount" and a trade in. It was a great value, but Verizon also will only pay me that $650 over two years. I'm afraid they might remove those "discounts" from my monthly bill if I change my active phone before the 2 years is up. 14 months to go.
Verizon scams their customers with fraudulent billing practices. Leave while you can.
Did you buy your phone “unlocked”?
@@marss4536 No, I bought it from Verizon. I don't understand why they insist on a permanently locked bootloader. I won't be buying a Verizon branded phone again.
Hoping this becomes available for other devices soon, cause I'm not particularly keen on having to get a Pixel device for it. That's for a handful of reasons, but the big one being giving up expandable storage and the headphone jack
Thank you for this video, it was very informative. I've been in iOS for a long time but if I'll ever switch to an android phone at least I'll know which OS I'll prefer on the phone 👍
Thing with custom ROMs is that it is always some kind of a compromise sadly. This one is made for Pixel so i guess all the HW compatibility is not an issue. But one of the biggest problems with installing custom ROMs on a phone is that camera is suddenly worse because of imperfect drivers. And we all know that camera is a big reason, people buy their phone for. I wonder if it is as good on that Graphene OS as on stock pixel. Also another big thing is Safety net, i seriously doubt this device can pass it and a lot of apps will not work well without that. The way i went around it back with my S8 was installing some version of Lineage OS wiht unlocked SELinux so i could install edXposed framework which then let me install Signature Spoofing and also MicroG service. Which are services that act like Google play services but without spying. It worked pretty well, i even had access to my bought apps on google play. Sadly unlocked SELinux is a security threat tho. And it can also happen that some things aren't as stable as one would like. It's hard nowadays with custom Roms cause devs put so many obstacles in the way too. Samsung and their KNoxx security layer, i think it now even disables the cameras when bootloader is unlocked. Oh and also if you do all of this stuff even if it is GrapheneOS on Pixel, problem is you still have to use apps from the play store and those are usually using Firebase codebase which has some google tracking built in. Try looking app called Tracker Control and see how many spying libraries and trackers each of the individual apps have inside. People just can't win, if you don't want to be spyed on you can't win. U can limit your comfort and it's still not enough or you can turn into Digital hermit with only Open Source apps but yeah. Sadly the linux for phones will be the best way to go it seems but yeah it is a long way to go. People need to spread awarness of this spying tho.
My only problem was their refusal to allow selinux in permissive, magisk to function, or for persistent system patches after an OTA update which for me is important because GrapheneOS has limitations by default that I need to circumvent for my daily tasks.
If they start enabling me to use patches then I'd switch,But rebuilding Android OTA updates on device is not as simple as rebuilding Gentoo.
They will never allow you that, because they are as user-hostile as Google. Their excuse is that this would decrease the security, which is true in some sense, but why shouldn't I as a user be able to make my own trade-off?
Vanilla Pixel user here. What kind of patches do you mean?
@@dfgdfg_ I use a custom systrm webiew that is more updated and has adblocking, kernel patches to use containers and binds (for using docker), microg, larger swap partition, cpu overclock, a static busybox install in /sbin, and I also use lsposed for modifying on a single-app scope and persisting updates.
Hey Louis I actually went ahead and grabbed the Pixel series and installed GrapheneOS myself. Super easy and so far everything works well.
Gonna give it a whirl, and im excited. Also what cause is that? that strap on the back looks super useful.
Thanks for the video. The main reason why I don't use GrapheneOS and other alternatives to Google's Android is the fact that the camera app that comes with stock ROM has certain optimizations that can only be used on stock ROM.
Therefore by not using the stock ROM you basically accept that the camera will output considerably worst pictures and videos than the stock app.
Glad you made this video. I finally own my pixel outright so I can install this I hope
How has your experience with the phone itself been? I've particularly heard some mixed reviews for the fingerprint sensor on the Pixel 6.
Pixel 6 owner. The fingerprint sensor sucks
it sucks balls. fingerprint sensor on a dedicated button is always better than the built into the screen garbage. the LG V60 had this and it sucked too.
the samsung s10e fingerprint sensor on the side button is amazing.
the pixel 4a 5G fingerprint sensor on the back under the camera is amazing
the pixel 6 pro fingerprint sensor built into the screen is trash.
most phones do stupid shit to be trendy that actually makes them worse. curved glass display is another example. It makes it easier for me to touch stuff i didn't mean to touch, but i guess it looks cooler or something. but it works like crap compared to older phones that do not do this stupid shit.
IMO, phone hardware peaked over five years ago. it's all downhill since with stupid trendy nonsense like removing microsd/headphone jack, curved screens that are more expensive to refurbish/repair & more annoying to use, fingerprint scanners that don't work as well because it is integrated into the screen.
@@rossmanngroup have you tried the fingerprint sensor on the s21 or s22? i find them pretty accurate and great no issues there
no beating dedicated button tho, but if if underscreen can be made decent why not?
@@Loved_ the other issue with it is i have to put my finger in a specific spot on the screen. this is never as easy as a dedicated sensor where i can feel where it is.
@@rossmanngroup thats fair. each to their own :) have a good night. and a hello from SA, hope to meet you at another fan meetup thingy
Thanks for the video. I do care about the ongoing battery drain all these sensors and uploads has on my device.
Gaining more privacy is definately a great thing too. Have you noticed better battery compared to what stock pixels claim to be?
My s22 is pretty good on battery as I have told every app I can to be denied. Just not google sadly.
I remember years ago you wanted to de-google your self glad you finally get a chance to now
I use CalyxOS now and have used LineageOS in the past and I can confirm you get way more battery life out of your phone.
As a GrapheneOS user, battery life is much better.
I´m a fan from Rio de Janeiro! Hope to meet you when I go to NY (if you still there!)!
Can confirm. I've been using this for months now, and I highly recommend. With the Aurora Store I am able to use all the apps I need for my bank, school, work and more. Great way to be secure while be able to use everything I need
Oh, how I would love to try this! But my love for Nokia phones and especially my Xr20 is strong... I love having a headphone jack, drop resistance and water resistance on a modern phone.. I'll have to set my hopes to the developers making it available to Nokia phones one day!
I’ve been using Graphene for the past 3 months. Love it!
I need a smaller phone to come out that the Graphene team can support. These Pixels are too huge..
if one handed mode had some adjustability id be fine with the big screen, unfortunately i think graphene just uses aosp's default one handed mode, which is a pointless piece of software imo because the top left corner is still way out of proximity of where normal thumbs can reach on my 6a
I installed Island to enable a work profile, and only use GSF and closed sourced apps in this profile. My main profile only has Open source apps.
Google is running a promo giving $390~ trade in for the iPhone X for a 6a (specifically, other combinations give less money.) I traded in a X that someone gave me and I’m giving my old 5a to my little brother. Another soul has been saved from the pits of hell.
See if you can get yourself a pixel 5 it's the perfect size or 4. Love my 5.
Pixel 5 or 4a are your best bet.
4a is slightly smaller and more durable. 144 mm tall
Nice information. You didn't mention anything about old tablets where I don't need camera features and because I've read all comments some of the commentators were mentioning lower camera features. For instance on what device can I install this OS . I am looking to install it on a Samsung S2 tablet . Thank you
GrapheneOS is only for Pixel phones. There are other de-Googled or privacy-focused AndroidOpenSourceProject spins that support more devices. That's all I know
Going through the large number of permission settings for every single app one installs takes work that most people won't do, so the OS should have a system that automatically sets the minimum permissions necessary for each app, thereby saving a lot of tedium and ensuring maximum security.