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I bake my ciabattas (4, 6 or 8) on an inverted aluminium baking tray every week as I cannot find a pizza steel anywhere in Taiwan. The results are magnificent and I don't have a problem with it. They always turn out perfect. As the video shows, the results of the baking tray were way better than the baking stone and not far off being similar results to the pizza steel and cast iron pan. If you cannot afford or find a pizza steel or cast iron pan, just preheat your upturned tray and bake away.
You could go to a steel supplier and have a piece of 3/16 or 1/4 inch mild steel plate cut to your specifications. You could round off the corners and edges with a file and sandpaper.
@@nobbymorph You don’t want stainless for the baking steel. It heats un evenly. Plain mild steel is what you need. You season it like cast iron by heating it and applying oil so it makes a varnish. The only way you can get stainless to heat evenly is to laminate it with an aluminum or copper core. Or even a mild plain steel core. If your having good success with what your using, I wouldn’t worry about changing anything.
@@nobbymorph I have heard that Taiwan is extremely humid. My motorcycle was made in Taiwan and before I bought it I heard all kinds of horror stories. Fortunately I ride it every day so it dries itself out and rust has not been an issue. But a baking steel might be different unless you are baking bread daily.
Built a bunch of industrial bakery lines for bagels in the 25,000 to 30,000 bagels per hour range. The bagels are placed directly onto the steel plates that make up the convayor belting going through the oven, those plates are about as thick as your steel plate. The "plates" are pre-heated before they come around for the bagels to be placed. The ovens are multi-zoned for heat and convection, the 1st 1/4 lenth of the oven is usally turned up to 550 to 575 F to give a nice flash heat. These ovens also can have steam lines at the beginning of the oven.
I use a cheap pizza stone and it actually does pretty well. There's probably a lot of factors but I won't speculate on any, I just know I get very nicely crisped bottoms to my pizza even after only heating it up for 30 minutes as opposed to the recommended hour. I'm fine with it looking grody so long as I can get all the main stuff off. Works for me!
I like pre-heating my stone up hotter than the baking temperature and then turning the oven to my baking temperature just before I put a pizza or bread on it.
Seconded, my basic ceramic pizza stone has not been a limiting factor for me. By the time I'm getting my fermentation etc dialed in nicely, on the pizza stone I'm getting perfectly adequate spring.
@@jameskeener7251 i use to hear "grody" all the time back in high school. I graduated in 2011 for reference. Was that the last time you heard it as well was in high school? Cause i rarely hear it nowadays, now that you mentioned it. If so it must be high school terminology lol
Came here to say the same: I have cheap round pizza stone and it does the job nicely. Though I preheat it on 250. Still thinking to get rectangle steel later, jut to have more space
My best Pizza Stone is actually a "lava" tile from the outdoor garden centre. It is exactly like you say, dense and retains heat super-well, and in the oven it is great. But strangely, I've hardly ever used it in the oven for bread (not that I cook a lot of bread) but I'm giving it a go next !
I love my cast iron Dutch oven. Next favorite is my Romertopf clay baker with the lid soaked in water for 15 minutes before baking. Would you consider doing a comparison including clay bakers?
@@ChainBaker I have compared baking in Romertopf clay baker to Pampered Chef stone baker. The rise is definitely better with Romertopf clay baker. The bread was too moist on the bottom with the stone baker.
I spent years developing a beautiful thick non-stick patina on my pizza stone. I could cook a variety of cheesy items that would not stick, ever, it was wonderful. Then I put it in the pizza oven and within 5 minutes at 950F the pizza stone looked like it had just been delivered by Amazon. 😢 Now I’ll need to spend a few more years building up that dark non-stick patina on my stone again. Well, back to the cast iron, which also comes out of the pizza oven looking like it’s fresh out of the foundry. Love your channel!
One could "MacGyver" a cool thing, like loads of Tajines have a nice wide cast iron base (and a ceramic top), any pan that fits into a tajine base and has no plastics can be used as top, like our 7L cast iron pan fits perfectly on a tajine base, and has lots of height and is oven safe. As baker, pro tip always get pans with either oven proof handles or handles that can be removed easy (our two Swedish cast iron smooth 30cm pans have lovely wood handles that can be removed very easy to use as oven safe pans.) Just never buy pans with plastic handles you will be grateful for making that choice at some point in the future
The differences come down to how each conducts and/or radiates heat. The metal surfaces will conduct heat more efficiently than the ceramic, and the thicker surfaces will radiate heat more consistently than the thin tray. Conduction will cook only the surface of whatever it is in direct contact with while radiant heat transfer will penetrate deeper into the food. This is why they usually don't use metal surfaces in a very hot pizza oven - it is to avoid charring the bottom before the rest of the pizza can be cooked.
Like Charlie, I bought a porous pizza stone... it has all the disadvantages mentioned here... to minimize the under-baking bottom effect I'm using non stick paper on an aluminium pizza screen. Since the objective of all these elements is to retain heat, the solid and thick it may be, the better, specially metallic ones.
I love my baking steel. It’s durable and easy to clean. You can even toss a frozen pizza on it for a super crisp crust which I could not do on my stone cause it would shatter. You can cook anything on a baking steel. It makes for a nice even cooking surface. Well worth the money cause it’ll last forever. Great video, Charlie. 😎👍🍞
I gave away my baking/pizza stone; couldn't stand the staining or the preheat time heating up my house that much longer than the actual baking time. For that reason I find the baking steel to be equal even IF it cooks better. Regular pans? Everyone has them so my answer is the same as everyone else. WHAT I USE IS A OUTDOOR BBQ fireproof sheet. Love it. Produces excellent results and the bread can be easily covered for steaming and nothing sticks to it. TRY IT. You might be impressed.
I would like to get a steel at some point. I still use a cordierite stone. However, I got one that is a bit thicker with a black, glazed surface. The black surface is smooth which makes it easier to wipe down, transfers heat better & the few stains are far less unsightly.
I use the cast iron from ikea for my breads. It extremly affordable and performs really well. With extra crisp and a nice shape, if the dow doesn't want to keep the shape. Best buy ever 😁
Thank you for this always amazing informative principles of baking videos! Pls request, plsmake a video about how to use an oven. Like i notice in your videos you only use top heat, why not also bottom. Or both something like that. Thank you!!
A suggestion to all your lovely bunch of bakers, keep your eye open for Dutch ovens, garage sales in de US for example, ebay that sort of places, (even a $1 one with a ding in the bottom is not a problem, little wax paper should be enough). We have a weird store here that sells all sorts of stuff, one offs and every time we come there there is all new stuff. We bought a 12L oval cast iron Dutch oven for €25 there, all types of bread fit in it, yet I use my 5L Dutch oven almost all baking sessions, a little oil, whole inside covered in sesame seeds and I let a loaf do the final proof in it, AND here is the kicker, I put it in the oven when I start pre heating, when the oven is hot, the loaf can be removed and is nicely sprung (i only put it back in the oven after the last loaf has baked during the cooling of the oven for final bake, easy and use of the power from the heating and heat from the cooling, pretty efficiënt. But our LaCanche range is old so heats up very slowly. About baking stones, they are so expensive, I had a 4CM thick 50*50cm concrete terras stone, and got me a nice water cooled diamond circular cutting tool for just those type of things, cut it so that it nicely fits on a rack in the oven. Never bake directly on it, it is just there right above the bottom of the oven, I rely on the heat for finishing my oafes this helps a lot. I also cut a 2cm thick smooth surface tile to size when I wanted a pizza stone but never use it nowadays, yet it was a single leftover tile cost me €3 and 10 minutes of measuring and cutting with the proper tool. LOL the saw and these two tiles/stones were less then 1 official hipster pizza stone so worth it I have used the tool for other things as well :) One could look for griddles with a flat surface and proper size, it is all about mass and metals conduct heat more easy so are preferred. You really ought to try heating the oven with a Dutch oven /cast iron covered pan with final proofing bread in it, it is amazing and I bet that if you only bake 1 loaf, you could just get the loaf out of the Dutch oven/pan when the oven has reached it high temp, put the loaf in the centre on a rack, turn the oven off and have a perfect loaf with only the energy use of the pre heat. (though I very much like to bake more and dinner while it is hot, saves a lot on energy. )
@@2adamast well pre-heating your oven with a Dutch oven and final proofing loaf inside gives excellent spring and one uses all the energy used during pre heating making a baking session more efficient (in EU energy prices are soaring and kind of a big thing these days ;) )
Great video as always thank you! Only one feedback from me cast iron it is the cheapest one at least in USA baking stone made in China cheap made in Italy or USA can cost between 80 and $180 good baking steel it is the most expensive usually prices starting around $200 made in USA, baking sheets you can get for six dollars the most expensive I’ve seen made in France or USA are around 50 up to $80. The cast-iron you showed it is made in USA so it is very cheap here.
Bread goes in the cast iron Dutch oven with a lid. I wish the lid was flat and I could invert the whole thing, only for the easier putting the loaf in, but it works well. Anything else baked I don't care much😂
Good one.👍 I had the same experience with the ceramic baking stone. It works better as a rough tool sharpening stone than a baking stone. No matter how long I heated the thing, the bottoms were under cooked. I think a lot has to do with the quality and power of one’s oven. I’m using a cheap ,countertop oven . It’s producing nice loaves of no knead sourdough using a thin ,parchment lined aluminum cake pan with a thin , stainless utility bowl as a cover. The loaves are evenly browned ,top, bottom and sides. While the thin aluminum losses heat fast ,it recovers it just as fast. I think, for unconventional countertop ovens (which are glorified toaster ovens) the aluminum with parchment works best (for me) because of the quick recovery time of the aluminum . I’m looking forward to trying a baking steel. It just may work in my tired little oven and I could make a longer loaf. A roasting pan lid would work to cover the loaf. Ultimately, one has to find a way to make what’s available to them work. If I had a large ,powerful oven I would use cast iron. For a regular home oven that can get to 500 degrees Fahrenheit , I would have a piece of steel in it to bake on. For my decidedly “rinky dink” set up ,the aluminum cake pan , parchment and utility bowl is producing nice loaves.
@ChainBaker - any chance you can do a Gozleme reciepe? They can generally be filled with many things(my preference is spinach and cheese), but that's not really the part I'm interested in, it's more the dough and technique!
I have both cast iron and a pizza stone,I find the cast iron much more effective for the heat transfer. My family loves my pizza 🍕 (homemade of course) it turns out beautifully browned, crispy and soft 😋 🇨🇦
I started with a 10mm thick piece of Granite that was left over from a Gravestone stone mason, but decided it was crazy preheating the oven for 60 minutes or longer for a 35 minute bake... Que a change over to Steel. I now use two 4mm thick pieces of Steel that fit perfectly next to each other, and can be stored between two low shelves in a cupboard. Both steels have been seasoned with Linseed Oil (as a Cast Iron pan would be), to prevent sticking and corrosion. The 4mm Steel sheets store and release enough heat energy for a double bake.
Be careful using flax oil for cooking. Linseed is flax oil with additives to make it dry faster. My local linseed contains Cobalt, which is def toxic. On top of that flax oil turns toxic as well when exposed to heat. Save the linseed for oil painting, never for cooking!
Baking steel. If you buy this at a kitchen supply they will charge you a bloody fortune. Go to a steel retailer, yes an outfit that sells steel, plates, bars, angle iron etc, not a bir box. They usually cut to size. Clean the steel until it shines and season like cast iron. Re aluminum trays, the dark coated do cook faster.
For me, the most important thing is which gives the best bang for buck on energy consumption, i.e. pan/tray/steel/stone warm-up time in oven vs oven spring result. I don't want to have my oven cranked for 1 hour before I even start baking anything, it feels like a waste of electricity. I have a tray/stone and lodge 12 inch skillet, which might work well as a steel base, but no baking steel (yet). What are your thoughts on this CB?
I would say that it would be the steel. Heating a heavy stone takes a lot of energy. Of course, a thin aluminium sheet will heat up the quickest but it may not be the best for oven spring.
Don't forget that aluminium transfers heat much better then iron/steel, that's why it's used in heatsinks and sometimes as a layer in the bottom of stainless steel pots. I also wonder how this compares to an oven with under heating as well, I've never had any problems getting a good crust on the underside be it in rather thick aluminium baking tin or directly on thin steel plates. (All ovens I've seen in normal apartments/houses here in Sweden have had both upper and under heating ovens as standard.) If someone wants a low cost metal plate look for a local shop that do water or laser cutting, if you can wait until they have a suitable slab on the cutter and a bit spare material you will likely get it a lot cheaper then in a store for food utensils, perhaps some nice baked things will be enough (if it would ended up on the scrap pile otherwise).
Interesting,I might not be a master baker, but, I'm a blacksmith, thermal properties, the steel will heat up faster, and lose heat faster then the stone, ceramic, etc. Why we use the material in forges, ovens etc, etc. etc. Once its hot, IT HOLDS HEAT, and because its a terrible conductor, it takes time to lose it. Now some fire brick is designed to reflect, and some to absorb heat, but ether, once at temp. will provide more even heating then steel ever would. Steel will hot spot without a doubt. Sure with your overhead heating element (we call that a broiler), baking by radiant heat, you might have different results, but not correct results, thermally speaking. Stone works better for the application. I use a stone to keep an even temp. in the old days an oven would be fired, but the fire out and the residual heat of the oven will bake for the day, all clay. If it were steel, within an hour it would be cold as ice. Steel and aluminum, with both being black, will preform the same with rapid heat lose, the cast iron, less so, talking plate, not pots and pans, with your overhead setup, all tests would require the objects be dark as to not reflect radiant heat that is much more a factor. There really is no need to wash a stone, but they are subject to thermal shock, Use Cordierite which is much tougher and at $28 a steal, vs. $100 for plate steel. Don't need to clean a stone, it burns off. :D
I think I just have a really crappy stone. No doubt it should make a great surface and that is why pretty much all commercial bread ovens have stone floors. I kept my stone in the oven since I switched it on and I only used it for the third bake, so it was in there for at least two hours. I would still pick my steel over a proper stone because it heats up quicker, is more practical, and because I only bake one bread at a time.
@@ChainBaker I think that’s unique to your setup.. the stone is at a disadvantage with the heat source above and the steel will respond better, that’s also dependent on the mass of the steel. I also use cast iron with a stone below on another rack, sourdoughs, two Dutch oven roasters , preheated, 15 minutes in and remove the lids. Ovens cycle with a bit of a differential between high and low and all the mass evens it out. Both speed in heating and loss of heat. Air vs. objects. But even at 500 F , some mass is better then none. But folks do bake in open cast iron, even pizza 😉❤️
Lovely video. I thought cheapo stones would be rather useless. I think only use they have is preventing direct heat, but i can get same effect with a sheet pan. I should note that ovens with a top and bottom heating element can get a decent results, somewhere between cast iron and aluminium sheet pan. The only downside is rising heat can brown parts of a bread more rapidly, specifically in oven "hot spots", which somewhat mitigated by having a sheet pan on a bottom rack to disperse heat a bit. And you can switch to the broiler in the end, to get a darker crust if needed.
I've had great results with pizza and small breads on a perforated aluminium baking sheet. The holes allow the hot air to reach the underside of the bread/pizza, so there is more heat transfer, and it allows steam to escape, so the underside doesn't get soggy, you can't use baking paper though. The only tricky part is that the bare aluminium sticks to the dough if you don't flour your dough well enough. Oiling the sheet helps as well.
I'd say the aluminum did very well. While it is thin, it has the highest thermal conductivity of all the surfaces tested. Probably just need a little more preheat time to get the oven itself good and hot, as to reduce the negative effects of heat loss from such a thin material. Thanks for showing.
A hint from my troubles with first trials of pizza baking - stone can be cleaned pretty good with a baking soda paste and a brush. First apply a thick slurry on the stone, let it work a little with the dirt and then brush it until you get rid of all the burned remaining.
I have a cast iron griddle whose flat side i use in the oven to bake loves with my Dutch oven as a lid. It also doubles as a stove top griddle for pancakes and English muffins! Have you any experience with outdoor ovens like a pizza oven? I plan to get one next year as a kind of treat and wanted to know if you have a take on baking breads with it as the temperatures in it are much higher.
@@kevinu.k.7042 Hey again Kevin! Yep, my motivation to buy one was to use it for pizza and as a tandoor as tandoori recipes need the 500C or so to get the right taste and texture. I think, given your advice, I'm gonna try and learn the ropes first and then, eventually see how it does with loaves.
I have not used one of those yet, but I will most certainly someday in the future. Speaking of high temperature baking, a regular loaf of bread does not require more than a home oven can give. The higher the temp the sooner the crust will burn. Reserve the high temperature bakes for pizzas and other flatbreads which really benefit from a quick and hot bake. The hotter the better 😁
Since I only have cheap countertop oven, I have to use dutch oven or the steam will leak out due to uninsulated door. I use stainless steel heavy bottom casserole pan. If the bread bottom is still look uncooked, I bake it upside down until golden. So far I'm happy with the result of my sourdough bread.
Thank you for this always amazing informative principles of baking videos! Pls request, plsmake a video about how to use an oven. Like i notice in your videos you only use top heat, why not also bottom. Or both something like that. Thank you!!
Baking steel placed over baking stone works well, as the stone stores heat better between multiple bakes. It is worth experimenting with aluminum sheet pan over stone, if a baking steel is not available.
@@2adamast : it dissipates/loses heat rapidly, as has low density. is fine for pizzas, as i usually do four at a time. prep the pizzas on the aluminium pans and pop into oven on high heat. then when cooked, take them out and put cheese on top and reduce heat, for last few minutes to melt cheese. well cooked pizzas without burnt cheese.
Hey ChainBaker! Love your videos, I've learned a ton about baking from you, thanks a lot :) Do you think you could make a video about pre-baking and freezing breadrolls one day? I'd love to have good rolls in the freezer that I can just pop out and bake when needed. Cheers!
Hi Charlie, I like the way you just toss those bad boys in the oven. For breads like those, I use my cast iron Dutch oven. No complaints. I have a covered clay pot, but haven't been using it lately. I'm surprised it's still in one piece as I've had it since the 80's. 🥨
100% baking steel, nice and heavy, 6mm+ thick. Can't beat being able to bake 2-3 loaves at once, especially with nowadays' costs for running an oven... still cheaper than buying good bread, though
Any hints on not burning bread bottoms when using steel? I’ve felt limited in my yearning to bake more than 1-2 loaves at a time in a Dutch oven, so have been attempting more open bakes with steam using Rofco steamers. But on my first attempt using steel, I totally wrecked some delicious rye loaves from Tartine No. 3…..even set at a relatively low temp of 450F. I wish most American ovens didn’t rely solely on the bottom burner for heating the oven 🫤
My oven has no bottom heating element, so I've never had that problem. Try baking at a lower temperature. Or pre-heat the oven high and then drop the temperature down once the bread goes in so that it does not re-heat for a while as the temperature is dropping. Use some kind of medium between the bread and the steel. Paper, a thin tray. Perhaps something will work.
I love my baking steel but my pizza stone is really good too. It is hard, heavy, solid and cheap. Not sure why yours is so bad. Maybe you got ripped off. People have been baking on stone forever with great results.
You have nice teeth and facial bone structure. I study this, that's why I'm commenting. I would never eat bread made from modern wheat - it causes inlfammation. Look into einkorn - the original wheat. Or even spelt is better.
A slightly 'off-topic' question. What make/model of cooker do you have. From your video it looks like you have the option to shut off the oven fan. Mine does not have that facility but I wish it did.
It's some no name low quality oven. It only has one heating element at the top which is not ideal for bread baking. If you can't switch off the fan simply turn the temperature down by about 10% to compensate. 160C fan on = 180C fan off.
In this video it seems like you had decided on the outcome before you did your experiment. In no way does the baking steel appear to have given a better result than that of the aluminium, neither in browning or the rise, yet you conclude that the former is better. When comparing the various breads you appear to be avoiding comparing the two directly. Aluminum might not store as much heat, but it is an excellent heat conductor, but the result could perhaps also be explained by more preheat or cooking time.
The steel and cast iron are the best. A stone that is denser than mine would perform better. The tray should only be used if there is no other choice. It worked this time, but it is inferior in most cases. I've baked countless times with all of them. If the aluminium was that good, then I would not waste my money on a steel.
Glad that I found your channel. Whatever question I have about dough making/baking, you channel has an answer. It is more or less scientific as well, with proper comparisons. Steel/iron store the heat and give to the dough from the beginning. Stone stores even more energy(double per kg) but transfers it very badly, since heat transfer within stone is too slow. it has to be much hotter like in Pizza oven. Thin sheet doesn't store much energy and cools instantly as dough is put, but since is it so thin (and aliminium) it transfers the heat from environment very well.
I have a much thicker and denser Cordierite Stone, it is 0.6" thick and does not stain. Mine is 17X14 inch and is perfect for my oven. It is sold as a spare part for a commercial pizza oven.
I find my commercial 1/4 and 1/2 sheet aluminium trays are perfect. Nice and light, don’t need any pre heating. My bread bottoms have never come out better since I switched.
What type of baking stone was used here? I have read that cordierite stone is good for durability compared to other baking stones but I don't know if it is better thermically.
Not sure what the exact material is, but it's a cheap piece of junk. My stone is very light, so I don't think it would be durable. The thing with a heavy stone is that it takes a lot of energy to warm up. I think I would stick to my steel if I had to choose.
Cast iron is my choice. I have tried and tried to get a giant loaf pan with a top that is cast-iron and they just don’t make it. So I have taken two loaf pans and placed one on top of the other when I want to make sandwich bread. Otherwise I just use my Dutch oven for a regular sourdough loaf.
The problem with your stone is it is very thin. Thicker ones, which are also heavier, are much better. BTW, I love the fact they absorb. It enhance future cooking.
I'm using a perforated steel baguette pan on top of a pizza stone in an outdoor gas-fired oven. Baking directly on the stone was unsuccessful. It's a new oven setup for me so I am experimenting. Covered ceramic pan has also worked well if i need a cover.
You're teaching me the basics in a way that I feel confident I'm learning what I need to learn. I just ordered a steel, next a peel, all for real. Okay. I quit.
Do you have any input on water? I happen to have very hard and thusly basic water. Are there any direct consequences? A remedy would be to neutralize the water, but is is even worth it?
If you are not noticing any negative effects, then it should be no problem. I always use tap water, but I'm not even sure if it's hard or soft here. Try neutralizing it and see if there is a difference. Work from there ✌
Best so far is a steel with a Creuset dutch oven inverted on top. My 2 utensils can have multiple fonctions, steel for pizza and also boosting heat under thinner baking sheets or pie bottoms ... and enameled cast iron for stews and braisés.
I think the tray did better than the stone because while it does lose heat quickly, it also transfers it quickly as well. The stone on the other hand lost the heat and then took longer for it to penetrate again.
How about a nice hunk of 3cm granite polished on one side do you have your choice of rough or smooth surface. Same kind of stuff countertops are made from, just watch out for resin in the stone.
Have three cast iron pots I use for bread, a cloche and baker's tins (rectangular) which came from the USA and they get a lot of work. I bake sourdough in the pots as well as normal bread and when risen they come out and get more time in the oven to brown up and get nice and crispy. Once again your show teaches people how to bake bread and gain more techniques and experience. Cheers from Adelaide, South Aust.
I have a one inch thick California stone that I use for pizza and bread. Bread comes out looking like the steel. I am not certain how long it takes to heat the steel but I know from experience that the stone should be heated for 30 to 45 minutes after the oven reaches temperature with the stone in it from the beginning.
All your bread is good! I do like the cast for bread. Stone is a bit over rated but good when you get used to it. The 16"stainless pan and a hot oven is what I always go back to for pizzas.
It's like my mind has been read! I've been wanting to purchase a good baking surface for a while and wasn't sure what to do. Now, I'll definitely get a baking steel. Thanks!
I have an half inch thick steel plate done in a metal shop, it works good but will still get cold if I bake pizza non stop. It should be perfect in a home setting.
I have a stone that is thicker than the one you have. The instructions call for heating it for at least 45 minutes before use. I love it. I get a nice brown crust on the bottom when I use it.
Kind of off-topic but if I wanted to bake a bread like the one in the video, which of the many video recipes from your channel should I follow? :) Dziękuję :)
I tend to use cast iron or a pizza stone but I agree. I tend to have to flip the loaf upside down for 5 mins when using the stone. Maybe time to invest in a steel when I'm baking more than one loaf at a time!
Tbh it's hardly an investment. Go to any place that uses plate and sheet steel and they'll sell you a plenty big piece of mild steel plate at a fraction of what a supplier would charge. If you don't need much you could even get the plate for free.
I use a cast iron dutch oven for no-knead, round rye and preferment breads and am always pleased with the results. For my white and whole wheat sandwich breads I just use plain old loaf pans I bought many years ago. They're good quality and never fail me. Thanks for another great video! I love your experimentation and always learn from you. Now I'm passing this skill on to my grandchildren. Some of them really love baking bread with Grandpa, especially my six-year old granddaughter. She's a natural! Chef, have you ever thought of doing a video about varying amounts of yeast? I'm not always careful about measuring ingredients and I've been curious about how using too much yeast affects the final product.
Too much yeast will just make the bread rise too quickly. Bulk fermentation of less than 1.5 hours is not enough for me personally. But if one wants a bread done quickly, them why not! 😃
I’m lucky enough to have a 1/4 inch steel and the cast iron with the lid and use both for nearly all of my bread baking. Even with rolls or sandwich loaves in a tin, my steel serves as the base often times. While neither qualify as cheap, to me they were worthwhile buys and should be cheaper with upcoming holiday sales. And like you say, they last forever plus they’re virtually indestructible. Overtime, they probably end up paying for themselves. Plus, I use both for other things. Last night - the skillet was used for fajita veggies and tonight the steel had asparagus on it. Those are just two of many examples! Great video as always, cheers!
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What would you think about a cast iron stove top griddle? It's about the same size and shape as a baking sheet.
Should work perfectly! ✌️
I bake my ciabattas (4, 6 or 8) on an inverted aluminium baking tray every week as I cannot find a pizza steel anywhere in Taiwan. The results are magnificent and I don't have a problem with it. They always turn out perfect. As the video shows, the results of the baking tray were way better than the baking stone and not far off being similar results to the pizza steel and cast iron pan. If you cannot afford or find a pizza steel or cast iron pan, just preheat your upturned tray and bake away.
Hey guys, don't get me wrong, I would love a pizza steel and this video was excellent in the comparisons. Bravo Charlie!
You could go to a steel supplier and have a piece of 3/16 or 1/4 inch mild steel plate cut to your specifications. You could round off the corners and edges with a file and sandpaper.
@@chopsddy3 cheers buddy but have you ever been to Taiwan? Their stainless steel rusts :)
@@nobbymorph
You don’t want stainless for the baking steel. It heats un evenly. Plain mild steel is what you need. You season it like cast iron by heating it and applying oil so it makes a varnish. The only way you can get stainless to heat evenly is to laminate it with an aluminum or copper core. Or even a mild plain steel core.
If your having good success with what your using, I wouldn’t worry about changing anything.
@@nobbymorph I have heard that Taiwan is extremely humid. My motorcycle was made in Taiwan and before I bought it I heard all kinds of horror stories. Fortunately I ride it every day so it dries itself out and rust has not been an issue. But a baking steel might be different unless you are baking bread daily.
Built a bunch of industrial bakery lines for bagels in the 25,000 to 30,000 bagels per hour range. The bagels are placed directly onto the steel plates that make up the convayor belting going through the oven, those plates are about as thick as your steel plate. The "plates" are pre-heated before they come around for the bagels to be placed. The ovens are multi-zoned for heat and convection, the 1st 1/4 lenth of the oven is usally turned up to 550 to 575 F to give a nice flash heat. These ovens also can have steam lines at the beginning of the oven.
I use a cheap pizza stone and it actually does pretty well. There's probably a lot of factors but I won't speculate on any, I just know I get very nicely crisped bottoms to my pizza even after only heating it up for 30 minutes as opposed to the recommended hour. I'm fine with it looking grody so long as I can get all the main stuff off. Works for me!
I like pre-heating my stone up hotter than the baking temperature and then turning the oven to my baking temperature just before I put a pizza or bread on it.
Grody. I hadn't heard anyone using the word for more than 60 years.
Seconded, my basic ceramic pizza stone has not been a limiting factor for me. By the time I'm getting my fermentation etc dialed in nicely, on the pizza stone I'm getting perfectly adequate spring.
@@jameskeener7251 i use to hear "grody" all the time back in high school. I graduated in 2011 for reference.
Was that the last time you heard it as well was in high school? Cause i rarely hear it nowadays, now that you mentioned it.
If so it must be high school terminology lol
Came here to say the same: I have cheap round pizza stone and it does the job nicely. Though I preheat it on 250. Still thinking to get rectangle steel later, jut to have more space
My best Pizza Stone is actually a "lava" tile from the outdoor garden centre. It is exactly like you say, dense and retains heat super-well, and in the oven it is great. But strangely, I've hardly ever used it in the oven for bread (not that I cook a lot of bread) but I'm giving it a go next !
I love my cast iron Dutch oven. Next favorite is my Romertopf clay baker with the lid soaked in water for 15 minutes before baking. Would you consider doing a comparison including clay bakers?
When I get my hands on one I'll definitely do it! 😎
I like Romertopf too, just broke mine so have to get a new one 😞 Was looking into getting a cast iron Dutch Oven too.
@@ChainBaker I have compared baking in Romertopf clay baker to Pampered Chef stone baker. The rise is definitely better with Romertopf clay baker. The bread was too moist on the bottom with the stone baker.
I spent years developing a beautiful thick non-stick patina on my pizza stone. I could cook a variety of cheesy items that would not stick, ever, it was wonderful. Then I put it in the pizza oven and within 5 minutes at 950F the pizza stone looked like it had just been delivered by Amazon. 😢 Now I’ll need to spend a few more years building up that dark non-stick patina on my stone again. Well, back to the cast iron, which also comes out of the pizza oven looking like it’s fresh out of the foundry. Love your channel!
This is the exact video I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to do all these tests.
One could "MacGyver" a cool thing, like loads of Tajines have a nice wide cast iron base (and a ceramic top), any pan that fits into a tajine base and has no plastics can be used as top, like our 7L cast iron pan fits perfectly on a tajine base, and has lots of height and is oven safe.
As baker, pro tip always get pans with either oven proof handles or handles that can be removed easy (our two Swedish cast iron smooth 30cm pans have lovely wood handles that can be removed very easy to use as oven safe pans.) Just never buy pans with plastic handles you will be grateful for making that choice at some point in the future
The differences come down to how each conducts and/or radiates heat. The metal surfaces will conduct heat more efficiently than the ceramic, and the thicker surfaces will radiate heat more consistently than the thin tray. Conduction will cook only the surface of whatever it is in direct contact with while radiant heat transfer will penetrate deeper into the food. This is why they usually don't use metal surfaces in a very hot pizza oven - it is to avoid charring the bottom before the rest of the pizza can be cooked.
Like Charlie, I bought a porous pizza stone... it has all the disadvantages mentioned here... to minimize the under-baking bottom effect I'm using non stick paper on an aluminium pizza screen. Since the objective of all these elements is to retain heat, the solid and thick it may be, the better, specially metallic ones.
I love my baking steel. It’s durable and easy to clean. You can even toss a frozen pizza on it for a super crisp crust which I could not do on my stone cause it would shatter. You can cook anything on a baking steel. It makes for a nice even cooking surface. Well worth the money cause it’ll last forever. Great video, Charlie. 😎👍🍞
I gave away my baking/pizza stone; couldn't stand the staining or the preheat time heating up my house that much longer than the actual baking time. For that reason I find the baking steel to be equal even IF it cooks better. Regular pans? Everyone has them so my answer is the same as everyone else. WHAT I USE IS A OUTDOOR BBQ fireproof sheet. Love it. Produces excellent results and the bread can be easily covered for steaming and nothing sticks to it. TRY IT. You might be impressed.
I would like to get a steel at some point. I still use a cordierite stone. However, I got one that is a bit thicker with a black, glazed surface. The black surface is smooth which makes it easier to wipe down, transfers heat better & the few stains are far less unsightly.
I use the cast iron from ikea for my breads. It extremly affordable and performs really well. With extra crisp and a nice shape, if the dow doesn't want to keep the shape. Best buy ever 😁
Thank you for this always amazing informative principles of baking videos!
Pls request, plsmake a video about how to use an oven. Like i notice in your videos you only use top heat, why not also bottom. Or both something like that. Thank you!!
A suggestion to all your lovely bunch of bakers, keep your eye open for Dutch ovens, garage sales in de US for example, ebay that sort of places, (even a $1 one with a ding in the bottom is not a problem, little wax paper should be enough). We have a weird store here that sells all sorts of stuff, one offs and every time we come there there is all new stuff. We bought a 12L oval cast iron Dutch oven for €25 there, all types of bread fit in it, yet I use my 5L Dutch oven almost all baking sessions, a little oil, whole inside covered in sesame seeds and I let a loaf do the final proof in it, AND here is the kicker, I put it in the oven when I start pre heating, when the oven is hot, the loaf can be removed and is nicely sprung (i only put it back in the oven after the last loaf has baked during the cooling of the oven for final bake, easy and use of the power from the heating and heat from the cooling, pretty efficiënt. But our LaCanche range is old so heats up very slowly.
About baking stones, they are so expensive, I had a 4CM thick 50*50cm concrete terras stone, and got me a nice water cooled diamond circular cutting tool for just those type of things, cut it so that it nicely fits on a rack in the oven. Never bake directly on it, it is just there right above the bottom of the oven, I rely on the heat for finishing my oafes this helps a lot.
I also cut a 2cm thick smooth surface tile to size when I wanted a pizza stone but never use it nowadays, yet it was a single leftover tile cost me €3 and 10 minutes of measuring and cutting with the proper tool. LOL the saw and these two tiles/stones were less then 1 official hipster pizza stone so worth it I have used the tool for other things as well :)
One could look for griddles with a flat surface and proper size, it is all about mass and metals conduct heat more easy so are preferred.
You really ought to try heating the oven with a Dutch oven /cast iron covered pan with final proofing bread in it, it is amazing and I bet that if you only bake 1 loaf, you could just get the loaf out of the Dutch oven/pan when the oven has reached it high temp, put the loaf in the centre on a rack, turn the oven off and have a perfect loaf with only the energy use of the pre heat. (though I very much like to bake more and dinner while it is hot, saves a lot on energy. )
Why a dutch oven when used in a modern well regulated oven with a perfectly stable temperature?
@@2adamast well pre-heating your oven with a Dutch oven and final proofing loaf inside gives excellent spring and one uses all the energy used during pre heating making a baking session more efficient (in EU energy prices are soaring and kind of a big thing these days ;) )
Some great tips as ever. Cheers, Wim! 😎
I will definitely try out the pre-heating/baking combo soon.
Great video as always thank you!
Only one feedback from me cast iron it is the cheapest one at least in USA baking stone made in China cheap made in Italy or USA can cost between 80 and $180 good baking steel it is the most expensive usually prices starting around $200 made in USA, baking sheets you can get for six dollars the most expensive I’ve seen made in France or USA are around 50 up to $80. The cast-iron you showed it is made in USA so it is very cheap here.
It's not aluminium it's "ah-loo-min-ium" 😄 that pronunciation always makes me laugh. Love your channel Mr. Charles. You are a gentleman baker
LOL. i just got to the point where you mentioned how your American friends would pronounce it. Americans certainly do say it like that....Well played.
Bread goes in the cast iron Dutch oven with a lid. I wish the lid was flat and I could invert the whole thing, only for the easier putting the loaf in, but it works well. Anything else baked I don't care much😂
Good one.👍
I had the same experience with the ceramic baking stone. It works better as a rough tool sharpening stone than a baking stone. No matter how long I heated the thing, the bottoms were under cooked.
I think a lot has to do with the quality and power of one’s oven. I’m using a cheap ,countertop oven . It’s producing nice loaves of no knead sourdough using a thin ,parchment lined aluminum cake pan with a thin , stainless utility bowl as a cover. The loaves are evenly browned ,top, bottom and sides. While the thin aluminum losses heat fast ,it recovers it just as fast. I think, for unconventional countertop ovens (which are glorified toaster ovens) the aluminum with parchment works best (for me) because of the quick recovery time of the aluminum .
I’m looking forward to trying a baking steel. It just may work in my tired little oven and I could make a longer loaf. A roasting pan lid would work to cover the loaf.
Ultimately, one has to find a way to make what’s available to them work. If I had a large ,powerful oven I would use cast iron. For a regular home oven that can get to 500 degrees Fahrenheit , I would have a piece of steel in it to bake on. For my decidedly “rinky dink” set up ,the aluminum cake pan , parchment and utility bowl is producing nice loaves.
@ChainBaker - any chance you can do a Gozleme reciepe? They can generally be filled with many things(my preference is spinach and cheese), but that's not really the part I'm interested in, it's more the dough and technique!
It looks really nice and I want to try it someday. It's on my list, but I can't say when I'll get to it 😅
I have both cast iron and a pizza stone,I find the cast iron much more effective for the heat transfer. My family loves my pizza 🍕 (homemade of course) it turns out beautifully browned, crispy and soft 😋 🇨🇦
I started with a 10mm thick piece of Granite that was left over from a Gravestone stone mason, but decided it was crazy preheating the oven for 60 minutes or longer for a 35 minute bake...
Que a change over to Steel. I now use two 4mm thick pieces of Steel that fit perfectly next to each other, and can be stored between two low shelves in a cupboard. Both steels have been seasoned with Linseed Oil (as a Cast Iron pan would be), to prevent sticking and corrosion.
The 4mm Steel sheets store and release enough heat energy for a double bake.
Be careful using flax oil for cooking. Linseed is flax oil with additives to make it dry faster. My local linseed contains Cobalt, which is def toxic. On top of that flax oil turns toxic as well when exposed to heat. Save the linseed for oil painting, never for cooking!
Baking steel. If you buy this at a kitchen supply they will charge you a bloody fortune. Go to a steel retailer, yes an outfit that sells steel, plates, bars, angle iron etc, not a bir box. They usually cut to size. Clean the steel until it shines and season like cast iron. Re aluminum trays, the dark coated do cook faster.
That's one thing cookie bakers always have to keep in mind, or you risk burning cookies.
I use heat-resistant glass dish, seems ok, but my bread also seemed ok untill I saw your channel. I make progress :)
For me, the most important thing is which gives the best bang for buck on energy consumption, i.e. pan/tray/steel/stone warm-up time in oven vs oven spring result. I don't want to have my oven cranked for 1 hour before I even start baking anything, it feels like a waste of electricity. I have a tray/stone and lodge 12 inch skillet, which might work well as a steel base, but no baking steel (yet). What are your thoughts on this CB?
I would say that it would be the steel. Heating a heavy stone takes a lot of energy. Of course, a thin aluminium sheet will heat up the quickest but it may not be the best for oven spring.
Instead of a baking steel, these days I use a 6mm thick sheet of aluminum. It soaks up heat nicely and transfers it much better than steel.
Don't forget that aluminium transfers heat much better then iron/steel, that's why it's used in heatsinks and sometimes as a layer in the bottom of stainless steel pots.
I also wonder how this compares to an oven with under heating as well, I've never had any problems getting a good crust on the underside be it in rather thick aluminium baking tin or directly on thin steel plates. (All ovens I've seen in normal apartments/houses here in Sweden have had both upper and under heating ovens as standard.)
If someone wants a low cost metal plate look for a local shop that do water or laser cutting, if you can wait until they have a suitable slab on the cutter and a bit spare material you will likely get it a lot cheaper then in a store for food utensils, perhaps some nice baked things will be enough (if it would ended up on the scrap pile otherwise).
Hi I use an unglazed terracotta tile - works perfectly for both pizza and bread, I do cover the bread with a clay lid.
Interesting,I might not be a master baker, but, I'm a blacksmith, thermal properties, the steel will heat up faster, and lose heat faster then the stone, ceramic, etc. Why we use the material in forges, ovens etc, etc. etc. Once its hot, IT HOLDS HEAT, and because its a terrible conductor, it takes time to lose it. Now some fire brick is designed to reflect, and some to absorb heat, but ether, once at temp. will provide more even heating then steel ever would. Steel will hot spot without a doubt. Sure with your overhead heating element (we call that a broiler), baking by radiant heat, you might have different results, but not correct results, thermally speaking. Stone works better for the application. I use a stone to keep an even temp. in the old days an oven would be fired, but the fire out and the residual heat of the oven will bake for the day, all clay. If it were steel, within an hour it would be cold as ice. Steel and aluminum, with both being black, will preform the same with rapid heat lose, the cast iron, less so, talking plate, not pots and pans, with your overhead setup, all tests would require the objects be dark as to not reflect radiant heat that is much more a factor. There really is no need to wash a stone, but they are subject to thermal shock, Use Cordierite which is much tougher and at $28 a steal, vs. $100 for plate steel. Don't need to clean a stone, it burns off. :D
I think I just have a really crappy stone. No doubt it should make a great surface and that is why pretty much all commercial bread ovens have stone floors.
I kept my stone in the oven since I switched it on and I only used it for the third bake, so it was in there for at least two hours.
I would still pick my steel over a proper stone because it heats up quicker, is more practical, and because I only bake one bread at a time.
@@ChainBaker I think that’s unique to your setup.. the stone is at a disadvantage with the heat source above and the steel will respond better, that’s also dependent on the mass of the steel. I also use cast iron with a stone below on another rack, sourdoughs, two Dutch oven roasters , preheated, 15 minutes in and remove the lids. Ovens cycle with a bit of a differential between high and low and all the mass evens it out. Both speed in heating and loss of heat. Air vs. objects. But even at 500 F , some mass is better then none. But folks do bake in open cast iron, even pizza 😉❤️
I wonder how these baking surfaces compare to the Earthenware and ceramic surfaces of products like Emil Henry bread cloches?
Those work really well too!
Lovely video. I thought cheapo stones would be rather useless. I think only use they have is preventing direct heat, but i can get same effect with a sheet pan.
I should note that ovens with a top and bottom heating element can get a decent results, somewhere between cast iron and aluminium sheet pan. The only downside is rising heat can brown parts of a bread more rapidly, specifically in oven "hot spots", which somewhat mitigated by having a sheet pan on a bottom rack to disperse heat a bit. And you can switch to the broiler in the end, to get a darker crust if needed.
I've had great results with pizza and small breads on a perforated aluminium baking sheet. The holes allow the hot air to reach the underside of the bread/pizza, so there is more heat transfer, and it allows steam to escape, so the underside doesn't get soggy, you can't use baking paper though.
The only tricky part is that the bare aluminium sticks to the dough if you don't flour your dough well enough. Oiling the sheet helps as well.
I'd say the aluminum did very well. While it is thin, it has the highest thermal conductivity of all the surfaces tested. Probably just need a little more preheat time to get the oven itself good and hot, as to reduce the negative effects of heat loss from such a thin material. Thanks for showing.
A hint from my troubles with first trials of pizza baking - stone can be cleaned pretty good with a baking soda paste and a brush. First apply a thick slurry on the stone, let it work a little with the dirt and then brush it until you get rid of all the burned remaining.
"What's important is their bottoms." True words to live by away from bread too. 👀
😆
I have a cast iron griddle whose flat side i use in the oven to bake loves with my Dutch oven as a lid. It also doubles as a stove top griddle for pancakes and English muffins!
Have you any experience with outdoor ovens like a pizza oven? I plan to get one next year as a kind of treat and wanted to know if you have a take on baking breads with it as the temperatures in it are much higher.
@@kevinu.k.7042 Hey again Kevin! Yep, my motivation to buy one was to use it for pizza and as a tandoor as tandoori recipes need the 500C or so to get the right taste and texture. I think, given your advice, I'm gonna try and learn the ropes first and then, eventually see how it does with loaves.
I have not used one of those yet, but I will most certainly someday in the future.
Speaking of high temperature baking, a regular loaf of bread does not require more than a home oven can give. The higher the temp the sooner the crust will burn. Reserve the high temperature bakes for pizzas and other flatbreads which really benefit from a quick and hot bake. The hotter the better 😁
Good comparison! Thanks!
I use my roman clay pot from Germany, it's called a Römertopf. I soak it in water for a minimum of 1 hour and it bakes my bread beautifully. 🙂🥨
Please state the mode of your oven. Is it hot air or hot plates top bottom.
Fan off. Top heat only because my oven only has one heating element.
Since I only have cheap countertop oven, I have to use dutch oven or the steam will leak out due to uninsulated door. I use stainless steel heavy bottom casserole pan. If the bread bottom is still look uncooked, I bake it upside down until golden. So far I'm happy with the result of my sourdough bread.
I just bought 1/2 thick aluminum plate. Figured it would be lighter and conduct heat faster..
Thank you for this always amazing informative principles of baking videos!
Pls request, plsmake a video about how to use an oven. Like i notice in your videos you only use top heat, why not also bottom. Or both something like that. Thank you!!
I would always suggest using both. My oven does not have a heating element on the bottom, so I don't have that choice😅
I just bought the same brand of baking steel you’re using for 20 bucks on offer up. I was about to spend 100 bucks. It was meant to be lol
Baking steel placed over baking stone works well, as the stone stores heat better between multiple bakes. It is worth experimenting with aluminum sheet pan over stone, if a baking steel is not available.
for pizzas i use bare aluminium trays, as they're convenient. aluminium doesnt hold much heat but, heats up fast in an oven.
Aluminium holds twice the heat of cast iron
@@2adamast : it dissipates/loses heat rapidly, as has low density. is fine for pizzas, as i usually do four at a time. prep the pizzas on the aluminium pans and pop into oven on high heat. then when cooked, take them out and put cheese on top and reduce heat, for last few minutes to melt cheese. well cooked pizzas without burnt cheese.
@Sixgorillionshekelswindler Shlomo : standard uncoated pizza trays.
My cast iron makes the best deep dish pizza and bread by far. I had a stone.... Gave it away. A total waste of money I thought.
Hey ChainBaker! Love your videos, I've learned a ton about baking from you, thanks a lot :) Do you think you could make a video about pre-baking and freezing breadrolls one day? I'd love to have good rolls in the freezer that I can just pop out and bake when needed. Cheers!
Here's a video that should lead you down the right path ruclips.net/video/NlIuDpQmEVU/видео.html 😉
Thank you for this. 🍞 🥖
Aluminium did well because it is the most conductive and was thin so it get hot quicker!
For the record Lodge makes a 14” and a 15” round pizza pan.
Hi Charlie, I like the way you just toss those bad boys in the oven.
For breads like those, I use my cast iron Dutch oven. No complaints. I have a covered clay pot, but haven't been using it lately. I'm surprised it's still in one piece as I've had it since the 80's. 🥨
The aluminum, like in a computer hear sink and radiator is able to transfer the oven heat faster than it cool too much
Ayiah, don't scratch your tray with the cast iron! Love your vids man. Keep it going! And thanks for the info! :)
100% baking steel, nice and heavy, 6mm+ thick. Can't beat being able to bake 2-3 loaves at once, especially with nowadays' costs for running an oven... still cheaper than buying good bread, though
Any hints on not burning bread bottoms when using steel? I’ve felt limited in my yearning to bake more than 1-2 loaves at a time in a Dutch oven, so have been attempting more open bakes with steam using Rofco steamers. But on my first attempt using steel, I totally wrecked some delicious rye loaves from Tartine No. 3…..even set at a relatively low temp of 450F. I wish most American ovens didn’t rely solely on the bottom burner for heating the oven 🫤
My oven has no bottom heating element, so I've never had that problem. Try baking at a lower temperature. Or pre-heat the oven high and then drop the temperature down once the bread goes in so that it does not re-heat for a while as the temperature is dropping. Use some kind of medium between the bread and the steel. Paper, a thin tray. Perhaps something will work.
I love my baking steel but my pizza stone is really good too. It is hard, heavy, solid and cheap. Not sure why yours is so bad. Maybe you got ripped off. People have been baking on stone forever with great results.
mine is not heavy or solid
You have nice teeth and facial bone structure. I study this, that's why I'm commenting.
I would never eat bread made from modern wheat - it causes inlfammation. Look into einkorn - the original wheat. Or even spelt is better.
I eat very little bread to be fair. Cheers!
A slightly 'off-topic' question.
What make/model of cooker do you have. From your video it looks like you have the option to shut off the oven fan. Mine does not have that facility but I wish it did.
It's some no name low quality oven. It only has one heating element at the top which is not ideal for bread baking.
If you can't switch off the fan simply turn the temperature down by about 10% to compensate. 160C fan on = 180C fan off.
In this video it seems like you had decided on the outcome before you did your experiment. In no way does the baking steel appear to have given a better result than that of the aluminium, neither in browning or the rise, yet you conclude that the former is better. When comparing the various breads you appear to be avoiding comparing the two directly.
Aluminum might not store as much heat, but it is an excellent heat conductor, but the result could perhaps also be explained by more preheat or cooking time.
The steel and cast iron are the best. A stone that is denser than mine would perform better. The tray should only be used if there is no other choice. It worked this time, but it is inferior in most cases. I've baked countless times with all of them.
If the aluminium was that good, then I would not waste my money on a steel.
Glad that I found your channel. Whatever question I have about dough making/baking, you channel has an answer. It is more or less scientific as well, with proper comparisons.
Steel/iron store the heat and give to the dough from the beginning. Stone stores even more energy(double per kg) but transfers it very badly, since heat transfer within stone is too slow. it has to be much hotter like in Pizza oven. Thin sheet doesn't store much energy and cools instantly as dough is put, but since is it so thin (and aliminium) it transfers the heat from environment very well.
I have a much thicker and denser Cordierite Stone, it is 0.6" thick and does not stain.
Mine is 17X14 inch and is perfect for my oven.
It is sold as a spare part for a commercial pizza oven.
I use a big piece of tile instead of stone and it has a glaze wich is easy to clean
I find my commercial 1/4 and 1/2 sheet aluminium trays are perfect. Nice and light, don’t need any pre heating. My bread bottoms have never come out better since I switched.
What type of baking stone was used here?
I have read that cordierite stone is good for durability compared to other baking stones but I don't know if it is better thermically.
Not sure what the exact material is, but it's a cheap piece of junk. My stone is very light, so I don't think it would be durable.
The thing with a heavy stone is that it takes a lot of energy to warm up. I think I would stick to my steel if I had to choose.
Thanks very informative almost bought a pizza stone.. for sure I’m going to skip that and go for steel. Reminds me of my favorite pan from De Buyer
Cast iron is my choice. I have tried and tried to get a giant loaf pan with a top that is cast-iron and they just don’t make it. So I have taken two loaf pans and placed one on top of the other when I want to make sandwich bread. Otherwise I just use my Dutch oven for a regular sourdough loaf.
Anyone using ceramic? I am a novice baker, love the channel and the comments from other experienced bakers, truly helpful for a late learner.
Ceramic works great!
Great job! Thank you.
The problem with your stone is it is very thin.
Thicker ones, which are also heavier, are much better.
BTW, I love the fact they absorb. It enhance future cooking.
I'm using a perforated steel baguette pan on top of a pizza stone in an outdoor gas-fired oven. Baking directly on the stone was unsuccessful. It's a new oven setup for me so I am experimenting. Covered ceramic pan has also worked well if i need a cover.
You're teaching me the basics in a way that I feel confident I'm learning what I need to learn. I just ordered a steel, next a peel, all for real. Okay. I quit.
Do you have any input on water? I happen to have very hard and thusly basic water. Are there any direct consequences? A remedy would be to neutralize the water, but is is even worth it?
If you are not noticing any negative effects, then it should be no problem. I always use tap water, but I'm not even sure if it's hard or soft here.
Try neutralizing it and see if there is a difference. Work from there ✌
would be nice if you could make a video on how nonstick equipment. I always have to resort to parchment paper no matter what the cooking surfaces are.
Baking tins can be greased with butter to make them less sticky. I pretty much always use paper on trays though.
Best so far is a steel with a Creuset dutch oven inverted on top. My 2 utensils can have multiple fonctions, steel for pizza and also boosting heat under thinner baking sheets or pie bottoms ... and enameled cast iron for stews and braisés.
I think the tray did better than the stone because while it does lose heat quickly, it also transfers it quickly as well. The stone on the other hand lost the heat and then took longer for it to penetrate again.
How about a nice hunk of 3cm granite polished on one side do you have your choice of rough or smooth surface. Same kind of stuff countertops are made from, just watch out for resin in the stone.
It could work. The only issue with a heavy stone is that it would take much longer to heat up properly.
Have three cast iron pots I use for bread, a cloche and baker's tins (rectangular) which came from the USA and they get a lot of work. I bake sourdough in the pots as well as normal bread and when risen they come out and get more time in the oven to brown up and get nice and crispy. Once again your show teaches people how to bake bread and gain more techniques and experience. Cheers from Adelaide, South Aust.
Cast iron just easier to get! Do so much more with it as well!
I have a one inch thick California stone that I use for pizza and bread. Bread comes out looking like the steel. I am not certain how long it takes to heat the steel but I know from experience that the stone should be heated for 30 to 45 minutes after the oven reaches temperature with the stone in it from the beginning.
All your bread is good! I do like the cast for bread. Stone is a bit over rated but good when you get used to it. The 16"stainless pan and a hot oven is what I always go back to for pizzas.
It's like my mind has been read! I've been wanting to purchase a good baking surface for a while and wasn't sure what to do. Now, I'll definitely get a baking steel. Thanks!
I have an half inch thick steel plate done in a metal shop, it works good but will still get cold if I bake pizza non stop. It should be perfect in a home setting.
I can’t believe my eyes when you used the pizza stone! I have one, but it’s not light at all and it browns the bottoms sometimes more than the top!
I have the whole gamut. I started using a stone when i first started baking bread, but i have since transferred to a dutch oven which works great.
I have a stone that is thicker than the one you have. The instructions call for heating it for at least 45 minutes before use. I love it. I get a nice brown crust on the bottom when I use it.
I have too much invested in baking stones to justify the $ for a baking steel.
If they work, they work! 😎
We use round pizza ceramic stones when in the big oven as stone retains the heat longer than metal. Seems to work better.
Kind of off-topic but if I wanted to bake a bread like the one in the video, which of the many video recipes from your channel should I follow? :)
Dziękuję :)
This will be the closest thing - ruclips.net/video/QXEgKzjWFC8/видео.html 😎
@@ChainBaker thank you, master
I tend to use cast iron or a pizza stone but I agree. I tend to have to flip the loaf upside down for 5 mins when using the stone. Maybe time to invest in a steel when I'm baking more than one loaf at a time!
Tbh it's hardly an investment. Go to any place that uses plate and sheet steel and they'll sell you a plenty big piece of mild steel plate at a fraction of what a supplier would charge. If you don't need much you could even get the plate for free.
I have a stainless steel 316b 6 mm thick type, and works great
Cast iron.
Wood fired oven.
I use a cast iron dutch oven for no-knead, round rye and preferment breads and am always pleased with the results. For my white and whole wheat sandwich breads I just use plain old loaf pans I bought many years ago. They're good quality and never fail me.
Thanks for another great video! I love your experimentation and always learn from you. Now I'm passing this skill on to my grandchildren. Some of them really love baking bread with Grandpa, especially my six-year old granddaughter. She's a natural!
Chef, have you ever thought of doing a video about varying amounts of yeast? I'm not always careful about measuring ingredients and I've been curious about how using too much yeast affects the final product.
Too much yeast will just make the bread rise too quickly. Bulk fermentation of less than 1.5 hours is not enough for me personally. But if one wants a bread done quickly, them why not! 😃
Yo charie! Big Fan. Saving my money forever. Thank a lot man
I’m lucky enough to have a 1/4 inch steel and the cast iron with the lid and use both for nearly all of my bread baking. Even with rolls or sandwich loaves in a tin, my steel serves as the base often times.
While neither qualify as cheap, to me they were worthwhile buys and should be cheaper with upcoming holiday sales. And like you say, they last forever plus they’re virtually indestructible. Overtime, they probably end up paying for themselves. Plus, I use both for other things. Last night - the skillet was used for fajita veggies and tonight the steel had asparagus on it. Those are just two of many examples!
Great video as always, cheers!
Do you place your cast iron pot or cloque right on the steel? I'd never thought of doing that.
Ever try a pizza screen? I had some good results.
Not yet, but I will definitely give it a try someday.
What program do you use on the oven? It looks like the broiler to me.
My oven only has one heating element at the top. Use top and bottom if you can.
Where should I place my baking stone? Directly on the bottom of the oven (the bottom gets heated in my oven)?
Not on the bottom but right above it will do. It is up to you to find out what works best in your oven because every oven is different
@ChainBaker Thanks for your quick response, your'e GREAT as always😊😊
what about a dutch oven instead of a cast iron pan?
Works the same way ✌️