@@MPD90 genuinely who cares, snap on will continue to make money ripping off the federal government (taxpayers) and harbor freight can rip off snap on for my benefit. Consumer first.
@@MPD90 All tools are a "rip off" of someone else's work. Snap On's prices are insane, and not all their tools are any better than anyone else's especially for the price.
@@halffast7799 So buy someone else's tool, that's absolutely fine, I agree Snap On are absurdly priced. What I don't agree with is buying an exact replica of a Snap On tool. This should be discouraged in every single industry, it's a woeful practice.
I love how the Harbor Freight guy named Oaty said he thinks the Icon tools are better than the likes of Snap-On, Knipex, etc. Icon stuff is decent and usually costs less, but is rarely better quality IMO. I’ll be buried with all my Knipex pliers..,
Harbor Freight released their own video about the new pliers coming out soonish. I was at last week's SEMA show and the pliers look outstanding!!! The Icon grips are from a different material but other than that, they appear to be Snap on clones. I own the snap on/Knipex versions but, will pick up the Icon versions of the 3 position long nose pliers to have lower cost versions to beat the snot out of. All tool companies steal from each other so, I don't understand the gnashing of teeth over these pliers. I'm looking forward to the new Gen 2 Icon ratchets too.
I'm a mechanical engineer and I agree good ideas get stolen all the time, it's part of "good" engineering IMO. However, making a more or less identical, 1:1 copy of something without making any real changes at all and selling it cheaper due to manufacturing overseas and lack of R&D isn't something I can really get behind. IMO it goes a bit past "borrowing" a good idea. The previous Knipex knock offs weren't even that much cheaper. The best case is Snap On notices this and lowers prices a tad, but I have no idea what their profit margins even are for tools like this. I don't judge people who buy these, I totally get it. It's hard to say this is "good" though.
Snap On fans get kinda touchy when someone makes an identical tool and sells it for a third of what Snap on sells it for. I like Snap On tools myself, I just don’t like the price. We all know that Snap On tools are way overpriced compared to other tool brands. I’m a business guy and could go on for days why Snap On prices their tools so high but that gets boring.
Don’t hold me to this…but I worked for a restaurant that made a t-shirt that looked like a Jack Daniels label. Some of the wording of course changed to represent the restaurant but you knew exactly what it was. Jack Daniels took notice and claimed trademark infringement, but the design was changed by about 30% and they didn’t have a case. I’m wondering if you changed the handle angle by 1 degree here and 1 degree there, shortened length by 1/8” here, 1/8” wider there, if it could all compound to enough of a difference?
I own a pair of the ln47acf, damn good pliers, especially on constant tension hose clamps, I'm interested in the ICON version. keep in my "on the go" toolbox.
As an owner of SnapOn tools, I believe this will benefit SnapOn customers by encouraging innovation and the creation of new products. I'm definitely going to try some of the Icon items myself. As I've aged, I've increasingly questioned why I should pay 60 dollars for a 9/16 wrench from a beloved brand when I can get one just as effective for 5 dollars. After all, brand-name tools are mainly for bragging rights if a less expensive one can perform the job equally well. Love Milwaukee by the way good tools !
All tool companies make or have made copies of someone else’s original design. When a patent expires anyone can manufacture that design. Now before a patent expires a company can buy a license to copy and manufacture a design under a patent.
Patents expire! Old news. Generic drugs copy name brand drugs down to molecule level. It’s fair game. If Snap On doesn’t offer justifiable benefits for the price, or new invention, let harbor freight kick its butt!
@@andrestnt By way of just one example, Snap On feels no shame for selling an open-end adjustable wrench that is exactly the same (down to the "molecular level" ) as the Crescent 1915 US Patent #1133236A. This is the history of the tool industry. Snap On and its fan boys need to get over it.
@@GM-gc8gg again were not talking about generic tools or universal design long expired patents. Brand identity, also Snap-on actually innovates not just copy and paste. Snap-on is not copying the brand identity of another manufacturer. Also it's not the same wrench, Snap-on and its other brand bahco made innovations on that tool. Molecular level 😂 please.
@@andrestnt You act like Snap On copied this yesterday. When they did it, it wasn't a "generic tool," a "universal design," or a "long expired patent." They copied it when it was still leading edge. And, it is the same wrench. You Snap On groupies need to get a grip.
Icon has broke the mold… delivering quality, warranty, and selection to the public without the ass-rapery prices of the tool trucks. You know they have a legal contract to make these and have already dealt with any legal or licensing matters. Good on Harbor Freight.
I've bought almost all of the new Icon pliers they've released, and am quite pleased with them. I want those needle-nosed pliers, so I will get them first chance.
Hf had those needle nose adjustable pliers at last year's sema..seems they are holding them back for release to me..originally they were to be available 4th quarter of 24
I own all the Icon copycat pliers with coupons for 25% off. Excellent truck pliers. The flush cut is my favorite. I have the Snap-on, Matco, and Knipes real ones also but they stay in my shop.
They are knipex/snap on *shaped* tools, but the steels leave quite a bit to be desired. Usually they lack a bit of refinement as well. Can’t deny that they’re perfectly acceptable for most people and I think competition is good. I think carbon copying designs is a bit of a cheap move, but hey whatever
the thing that blows my mind the most is how harbor freight sells anything with the triple joint, Snap-on's patent on it is still active as far as I am aware and I could not find a difference. Makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes....
They can do it because none of those companies hold patents on those tools. Snap-on hold one of the ln47, but its not for the looks, its for the angle and fitment of the slipjoint. Its probably why its taken HF almost 1.5 year to release their copy. Basically they are copying and changing just enough to stay out of whatever patent those companies have.
Exactly it. Do the same thing, just skirt around any infringement. Don't include the patented portion of the slip joint. Don't do a big S-wuth-wrench logo stamping. Don't do your name in an oval leading up to the button adjustment, instead put chevrons there.
Oaty, the product mgr @ HF in that linked video didn’t deny or refute the question regarding their blatant counterfeiting of Snap-on pliers, rather, he pivoted to the forthcoming G2 Icon ratchets and said: “we design end those from the ground up, all in-house…” not exactly a rebuffing
The way I see it, if you’re starting out or are just a diy’er snap on is a hard pill to swallow or adds up quick. While I have a mix of snapon/tekton/icon, there would be no way for me to outfit my personal toolbox with all snap on. If I can get a similar design walking into a store when they’re having a sale and it’d 1/5th of the price then it is what it is because I don’t use them everyday and if it breaks I walk right back to that store and get them replaced. With that being said I have a lot of snap on and make a point to try to buy USA tools. Snap on ratchets, standard wrenches, a few pliers, tekton sockets, and knipex pliers. I like to buy once cry once with tools but it all adds up when they’re 4-5x the price
Harbor freight teased the hose clamp plier last year, but never released it. I don’t think that version had a lock on the back. I’m curious to see if they actually released this version.
All harbor freight did was open the worlds eyes to how cheap you can make a quality product and still make a profit. Also if i break an icon tool, i can warrany it and have another that same day. Time is money
Does anyone know if Snap-on® or Knipex® filed patents in the USA for these tools? If so, isn’t the burden on the trademark or patent holder to pursue trade violation charges against in this case Harbor Freight®? I would think there could be both criminal and civil action involved.
Either the original manufacturers have no patent or they don't care or they haven't gotten around to suing Harbor Freight yet so get yours as soon as you can before the lawsuit start flying
If you think HF is negligently knocking items off then you're crazy. I am positive that they've covered themselves to be sure that they don't get sued.
@@lf2334 well considering a couple years ago snap-on suit them over the Daytona Jack I wouldn't necessarily agree with you but they got deep enough pockets and plenty of lawyers to take on any lawsuits
Icon can look like what ever they want. I have a pair of their regular slip joint pliars. The serrstions on the jaws look good but are softer then my knipex. They work alright and for what i paid im not mad. But if you use them every day and work them hard you can tell the difference in quality pretty quick. Same with their ratchets. I bought one of their 1/4" ratchets to replace a gearwrench one and found out real quick it was trash. Way to much drag on the gear and pawl to be of any use.
Looks can be deceiving. I have the Icon and Snap-On versions of the pliers that look the same. But the entire field of the tool is different. The grip is a lot more comfortable on the Snap-On and the metal is much stronger…almost like Icon just made an outline of the Snap-On and made it but the handle is more square on Icon less ergonomic.
@ they are not out yet as far as I know. I have the slip joint pliers that I was able to compare. I know the $20 papiers price is really tempting but I will see my Snap-On ones have never let me down…
It depends, but in the USA it's usually either 15 years or 20 years depending on some details. There's some other "stuff" that comes into play for drug patents, but that wouldn't apply here.
I think there's enough sligh differences that it cant be called an 'exact copy'. Also the metallurgy and jaw\teeth hardening is not the same as the originals. Iirc TTC did the hardness testing on many of these and the are different (lower) HRC levels especially in the jaw area. Knipex is king in the waterpump pliers arena. Snapon is just crazy expensive for what they are.👌🏻👍🏻🛠️🔩🔧 ✊🏻🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲✊🏻
I'll honestly be super disappointed if they copy the ball locking design aswell but if i had to guess they are using them being exact replicas as part of the marketing for them so they don't even care if it is a worse design, engineering a better solution may lead to less sales because it will be just another product. Edit: Also the coating/plating looks different on the two wire strippers. The HF one is a generic matt one while the snapon seems to have a little bit of a shiny sheen when it hits the light which I really like. The only reason why I think it's a slightly different plating/finish is because the den of tools talked about how the chrome finish on tools has been really hard to do in the US due to environmental reasons in it's manufacturing. So i assume snapon and knipex have their own system that they created to deal with the environmental concerns. Meanwhile, the HF ones are almost certainly made in Taiwan where I guess they just don't care about any of that stuff.
Overseas companies 'Rip/knock off' virtually every popular product. This just happens to be tools. I'd consider the SO copies, but I'd stick with Knipex, the price difference just isn't big enough.
If I was snap on or knipex, I would have been pissed, but hey I'm just a consumer I don't take any company side. I just enjoy the fruits of competition, even if those are just shameless copies.
Regardless of the legal situation, these rip-offs should fail because people should have the self-respect and decency not to support a brand that's so blatantly stealing designs. There's plenty of great affordable options, no reason at all to go for this knock-off stuff. Unfortunately there's a distinct lack of decency these days. Personally I'd be completely happy working with budget tools to suit my budget, but I'd be embarrassed to work with tools designed to look like someone else's brand. Just my 2 cents.
Snapon lost a lawsuit they filed against Harbor Freight over their Daytona jack copying Snapon’s design. The court basically ruled a jack is a jack and Harbor Freight won. They’re probably going off that precedent and going to push it as far as they can get away with. Also it’s entirely possible they have some kind of deal with Snapon and are paying royalties or there’s some other backroom agreement but I doubt it.
I have the snap on LN47ACF and they are great, I'd say worth the price I paid. Shame that icon can just copy it, make it over seas and charge less but that's what you get with a free market I guess. Either way they are a sweet design!
Not saying its not cool to have decent pliers at Icon’s prices, but they dont try to innovate on anything or make their own stuff. They just steal exactly what Knipex and Snappy does and makes an inferior product. Goes for most of their stuff, not just their pliers.
This kind of reminds me of in the watch world the topic of “Homage” vs “knock off”. You can get an invicta that looks 99% like a Rolex Submariner for $100 instead of $8k. It’s called an “homage” since it doesn’t say Rolexx or Rollex or something ridiculous such that it’s obviously a knock off. But nonetheless you know they copied the design. And people are camped against each other either for or against homage watches, with many people owning both. Anyway if the price is $30 more for the real deal I’ll take the SO and Knipex. I’d rather support factory workers who make a real living wage.
Spotted something: on the last HF pliers (the Knipex clone), there are 3 diagonal accents on one of the handles. Read recently that they show on A LOT of copies of various tools from famous brands. Once you know, you will see those 3 "grooves" everywhere. Almost like there is one giant factory somewhere making tons of pliers clones for multiple cheap corporations.
They look like great pliers, and I don’t give a shit if they are snap on and Knipex clones; they just need to stop taking us for fools by fronting like they got this extensive R&D department coming up with all these ‘innovative’ tools. I’d have more respect for HF if they just came out and said “Yeah Snap-On and Knipex make great tools, so much so that we decided to incorporate their designs into our own tools so that we can offer a product to the masses of equal quality at a much better value.” Just own your shit dude. No one is fooled.
In some ways, I feel HF does that when they say "Compare to" and then list a specific model of Snap On or Knipex. They aren't fully hiding it, but what they are doing is certainly raises eyebrows.
Nothing new in that playbook. It’s HB’s MO. If you shop HB, you know what you are buying… knock offs. And with prices sky rocketing… it’s what consumers will turn to.
So I guess the same model as China has come to the west. I have a friend in Hong Kong who has dealt with a lot of companies in the mainland. He says that all of the larger companies have a dedicated dept. that reverse engineers other companies products so that they can copy it. We've all known for a long time that China does it and a lot of people in the west sort of accept it now. I guess it was a matter of time before a company here blatantly does the same.
If the patents are expired, not much that can be done. However, the fact that their design clearly LOOKS the same is bordering on fraud. They're attempting to pass off their product as a Snap-On. But...the Snap on Prices are insane, so people will go for cheaper prices. I don't have a lot of respect for someone claiming to be an "Engineer" who's job is to literally copy other people's designs.
Any person that has to present a product at a trade show acts sheepish knowing their product isn't the best. Do you really think GW reps think their scan tools are better than Autel or Topdon or any other brand?
I mean they basically copied the knipex pliers wrench. And of course I ran right out and bought one. IMO if it's between $40 for icon and $60 for knipex it's worth the extra $20 for the quality. More so in the case of the twin grips pliers where the price difference is $10
Video's like this are compensating for the wasted money spent on a name. HF made the same tool at a better price so you cry along with others who wasted the same money.
Minds are made up that they "STOLE" Snap-on's designs..Did anyone ever think that they PAID Snap-on for access rights to develop them?... it's simple business..Enough money and any company will allow anyone to do anything 🤔
Icon, identical but better in every way. Snap on have serious quality control issues with their plier range. I'm currently trying to have some straight out of the box, poorly manufactured and poorly finished Snap on pliers replaced. 4 pliers out 12 are 'new defective' (two boxed sets of six). Snap on UK can't replace the specific part nos because the ones they hold in stock all exhibit similar faults. Crossed jaws on slip joint pliers - there's no play in the joint but the jaws are misaligned when closed (we have the exact same models in other handle colours that don't do this). The other pliers exhibit very poor finish to their sides, like really poor. I believe these issues are a result of how Snap on is cutting costs by forging several plier blanks in one go, then cutting them apart with lasers. It isn't working consisently and some pliers have noticable edge gouging, not something you'd expect from 'The World's Best Tools'. I firmly believe that pliers that really should go in the scrap bin are being pushed onto international markets such as the UK. When buying loose pliers from a tool truck you literally do the QC yourself. 'Cherry Picking' a pair of pliers with the best fit and finish should not be part of the buying experience. I'll never again buy boxed sets.
For everyone who loves HF if it was your tool or parts R&D and manufacturing getting ripped off/copied by someone else selling it for cheaper you wouldn’t be happy about it. They can only sell it cheaper bcs they didn’t invest any money in the R&D. We have this same problem in the automotive world with wheels and parts smh.
That’s exactly my problem with harbor freight. They are stealing everyone’s designs. In the knife world people with gather the pitch forks if a design is stolen. But in the tool world they act like it’s fair game.
@svn5994 lol. You're laughing now. Keep funding the PRC. Let's see if that chicomm garbage is around in 50 or 60 years. I have SO, that I use all the time that IS that old. And I bet you have some crap toolbox that you put a SNAP ON logo on too.
I honestly couldnt care that one company is copying another. Just apart of the game imo What's nice about HF doing it though, is they're offering their version at a considerably lower pricetag. It's benefitting the consumer, and that's all I really care about.
I buy the Harbor Freight Icon ones for my automotive tool box knowing they're going to get more dirty and more abused and warranty is easier. I use Knipex everywhere else
Here's a good question, who cares? More options, better prices than the ridiculously overpriced options we have now, and to be honest, its fine by me. Like seriously, who gives a shit if this guy copied that guy. Everything is a freaking copy or variation of something that already exists.
I get a kick out of how he calls him self and engineer and has a team of engineers working with him ... but well look at his Age he is GenZ and to them Engineering is as simple as tracing a Deign made by some one else ...because they a re all LAZY .......... changing the Deign or making a new on that would bean Work and Real education and Life Experience and so on
Do you have evidence to back up that statement? Have you seen docs video on the flush cuts? The icon actually perform better than the snap on. In my opinion that is in no way a “look alike”, it’s the better tool.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I think its amazing that they are getting near tool truck quality and designs to the masses
I think it's awesome! I'd love to own all of them and still be able to eat dinner and have heat this winter.
Plenty of affordable tools out there, doesn't have to be total rip offs of other peoples work.
@@MPD90 genuinely who cares, snap on will continue to make money ripping off the federal government (taxpayers) and harbor freight can rip off snap on for my benefit. Consumer first.
@@MPD90nah, fuck snapon. Extremely overpriced for no reason
@@MPD90 All tools are a "rip off" of someone else's work. Snap On's prices are insane, and not all their tools are any better than anyone else's especially for the price.
@@halffast7799 So buy someone else's tool, that's absolutely fine, I agree Snap On are absurdly priced. What I don't agree with is buying an exact replica of a Snap On tool. This should be discouraged in every single industry, it's a woeful practice.
I like the prices.... I like them even more when they are on sale!
I love how the Harbor Freight guy named Oaty said he thinks the Icon tools are better than the likes of Snap-On, Knipex, etc.
Icon stuff is decent and usually costs less, but is rarely better quality IMO.
I’ll be buried with all my Knipex pliers..,
Reminds me of the Daytona floor jack lawsuit. I wonder if Snap On is ready to try again?
For something I only use on rare occasions, the hose clamp pliers look intriguing!
Harbor Freight released their own video about the new pliers coming out soonish. I was at last week's SEMA show and the pliers look outstanding!!! The Icon grips are from a different material but other than that, they appear to be Snap on clones. I own the snap on/Knipex versions but, will pick up the Icon versions of the 3 position long nose pliers to have lower cost versions to beat the snot out of. All tool companies steal from each other so, I don't understand the gnashing of teeth over these pliers. I'm looking forward to the new Gen 2 Icon ratchets too.
This is a very niche example but snap on copied the wobble fix extention from Koken
I'm a mechanical engineer and I agree good ideas get stolen all the time, it's part of "good" engineering IMO. However, making a more or less identical, 1:1 copy of something without making any real changes at all and selling it cheaper due to manufacturing overseas and lack of R&D isn't something I can really get behind. IMO it goes a bit past "borrowing" a good idea.
The previous Knipex knock offs weren't even that much cheaper. The best case is Snap On notices this and lowers prices a tad, but I have no idea what their profit margins even are for tools like this.
I don't judge people who buy these, I totally get it. It's hard to say this is "good" though.
Snap On fans get kinda touchy when someone makes an identical tool and sells it for a third of what Snap on sells it for. I like Snap On tools myself, I just don’t like the price. We all know that Snap On tools are way overpriced compared to other tool brands. I’m a business guy and could go on for days why Snap On prices their tools so high but that gets boring.
Looking forward to the Generation 18 pliers .
If snap-on really has the quality and loyalty they claim, then they should have nothing to worry about! 😅
True.
Don’t hold me to this…but I worked for a restaurant that made a t-shirt that looked like a Jack Daniels label. Some of the wording of course changed to represent the restaurant but you knew exactly what it was. Jack Daniels took notice and claimed trademark infringement, but the design was changed by about 30% and they didn’t have a case. I’m wondering if you changed the handle angle by 1 degree here and 1 degree there, shortened length by 1/8” here, 1/8” wider there, if it could all compound to enough of a difference?
I own a pair of the ln47acf, damn good pliers, especially on constant tension hose clamps, I'm interested in the ICON version. keep in my "on the go" toolbox.
As an owner of SnapOn tools, I believe this will benefit SnapOn customers by encouraging innovation and the creation of new products. I'm definitely going to try some of the Icon items myself. As I've aged, I've increasingly questioned why I should pay 60 dollars for a 9/16 wrench from a beloved brand when I can get one just as effective for 5 dollars. After all, brand-name tools are mainly for bragging rights if a less expensive one can perform the job equally well. Love Milwaukee by the way good tools !
All tool companies make or have made copies of someone else’s original design. When a patent expires anyone can manufacture that design. Now before a patent expires a company can buy a license to copy and manufacture a design under a patent.
The 9 inch needle nose are in the stores and online now. I bought 3 of them and still paid less than I did for my Snap Ons.
I can’t wait!!!
I love it, it’s cheap and I can warranty it at the local harbor freight
The LN47ACF pliers have just hit some stores today.
Patents expire! Old news. Generic drugs copy name brand drugs down to molecule level. It’s fair game. If Snap On doesn’t offer justifiable benefits for the price, or new invention, let harbor freight kick its butt!
They don't copy the look of the bottle or the identity of the brand. Completely different.
@@andrestnt By way of just one example, Snap On feels no shame for selling an open-end adjustable wrench that is exactly the same (down to the "molecular level" ) as the Crescent 1915 US Patent #1133236A. This is the history of the tool industry. Snap On and its fan boys need to get over it.
@@GM-gc8gg again were not talking about generic tools or universal design long expired patents. Brand identity, also Snap-on actually innovates not just copy and paste. Snap-on is not copying the brand identity of another manufacturer. Also it's not the same wrench, Snap-on and its other brand bahco made innovations on that tool. Molecular level 😂 please.
@@andrestnt You act like Snap On copied this yesterday. When they did it, it wasn't a "generic tool," a "universal design," or a "long expired patent." They copied it when it was still leading edge. And, it is the same wrench. You Snap On groupies need to get a grip.
I'll have to keep an eye out for them at my local HF. I cant afford Snap On lol
Good video
I can't wait to get those hose clamp pliers
I’m excited for the high leverage and locking hose clamp icon pliers
Icon has broke the mold… delivering quality, warranty, and selection to the public without the ass-rapery prices of the tool trucks. You know they have a legal contract to make these and have already dealt with any legal or licensing matters.
Good on Harbor Freight.
you should check out ampco tools, they make non sparking non magnetic tools,. usa made tools, but their very expensive.
I've bought almost all of the new Icon pliers they've released, and am quite pleased with them. I want those needle-nosed pliers, so I will get them first chance.
I wonder if they will do the smaller sizes of the slip joint needle nose pliers
when do they come out? I cant wait to buy them
Hf had those needle nose adjustable pliers at last year's sema..seems they are holding them back for release to me..originally they were to be available 4th quarter of 24
I own all the Icon copycat pliers with coupons for 25% off. Excellent truck pliers. The flush cut is my favorite. I have the Snap-on, Matco, and Knipes real ones also but they stay in my shop.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!
My brain says shame on them. However, my wallet says bless them 🙏 😅
They are knipex/snap on *shaped* tools, but the steels leave quite a bit to be desired. Usually they lack a bit of refinement as well. Can’t deny that they’re perfectly acceptable for most people and I think competition is good. I think carbon copying designs is a bit of a cheap move, but hey whatever
the thing that blows my mind the most is how harbor freight sells anything with the triple joint, Snap-on's patent on it is still active as far as I am aware and I could not find a difference. Makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes....
Was it me or did the "Engineer" look like he was too young for his supposed years of experience?
He said he had 9 years of tool truck experience and has been with HF for 4 years. He looks like a 13 y.o. kid.
@ yea doesn’t add up.
FWIW, this (ICON copying Snap on, Knipex etc.) has been going around for some time and I get the feeling it won't stop here.
The bottom line for me is cost. If I could only purchase snap on tools I wouldn’t have any tools not one
They can do it because none of those companies hold patents on those tools. Snap-on hold one of the ln47, but its not for the looks, its for the angle and fitment of the slipjoint. Its probably why its taken HF almost 1.5 year to release their copy. Basically they are copying and changing just enough to stay out of whatever patent those companies have.
Exactly it. Do the same thing, just skirt around any infringement. Don't include the patented portion of the slip joint. Don't do a big S-wuth-wrench logo stamping. Don't do your name in an oval leading up to the button adjustment, instead put chevrons there.
Oaty, the product mgr @ HF in that linked video didn’t deny or refute the question regarding their blatant counterfeiting of Snap-on pliers, rather, he pivoted to the forthcoming G2 Icon ratchets and said: “we design end those from the ground up, all in-house…” not exactly a rebuffing
"ENGINEERS" 😂😂😂
Reverse engineering takes skill too!
The way I see it, if you’re starting out or are just a diy’er snap on is a hard pill to swallow or adds up quick. While I have a mix of snapon/tekton/icon, there would be no way for me to outfit my personal toolbox with all snap on. If I can get a similar design walking into a store when they’re having a sale and it’d 1/5th of the price then it is what it is because I don’t use them everyday and if it breaks I walk right back to that store and get them replaced. With that being said I have a lot of snap on and make a point to try to buy USA tools. Snap on ratchets, standard wrenches, a few pliers, tekton sockets, and knipex pliers. I like to buy once cry once with tools but it all adds up when they’re 4-5x the price
Harbor freight teased the hose clamp plier last year, but never released it. I don’t think that version had a lock on the back. I’m curious to see if they actually released this version.
All harbor freight did was open the worlds eyes to how cheap you can make a quality product and still make a profit. Also if i break an icon tool, i can warrany it and have another that same day. Time is money
Does anyone know if Snap-on® or Knipex® filed patents in the USA for these tools? If so, isn’t the burden on the trademark or patent holder to pursue trade violation charges against in this case Harbor Freight®? I would think there could be both criminal and civil action involved.
Either the original manufacturers have no patent or they don't care or they haven't gotten around to suing Harbor Freight yet so get yours as soon as you can before the lawsuit start flying
If you think HF is negligently knocking items off then you're crazy. I am positive that they've covered themselves to be sure that they don't get sued.
@@lf2334 yep, I’m 100% sure that SnapOn cares. 95% sure about Knipex.
@@lf2334 well considering a couple years ago snap-on suit them over the Daytona Jack I wouldn't necessarily agree with you but they got deep enough pockets and plenty of lawyers to take on any lawsuits
@@lf2334 they are hence why the slip joints haven't come out yet cause snap on holds the patent on them
Icon can look like what ever they want. I have a pair of their regular slip joint pliars. The serrstions on the jaws look good but are softer then my knipex. They work alright and for what i paid im not mad. But if you use them every day and work them hard you can tell the difference in quality pretty quick. Same with their ratchets. I bought one of their 1/4" ratchets to replace a gearwrench one and found out real quick it was trash. Way to much drag on the gear and pawl to be of any use.
There may be copies of knipex out there but i know they wont last as long as the german steel they are using to make the genuine knipexs
Looks can be deceiving.
I have the Icon and
Snap-On versions of the pliers that look the same.
But the entire field of the tool is different. The grip is a lot more comfortable on the Snap-On and the metal is much stronger…almost like Icon just made an outline of the Snap-On and made it but the handle is more square on Icon less ergonomic.
What about HF's version of talon grips? It it any good?
@ they are not out yet as far as I know. I have the slip joint pliers that I was able to compare. I know the $20 papiers price is really tempting but I will see my Snap-On ones have never let me down…
I disagree… those Icon grips are nothing short of awesome. Comfortable, durable, and do just as well as my Snappy version.
nice showcase channel man u really hawk these comments sales only here
My stores don’t have inventory, not worth even going to them anymore.
How long are patents good for
It depends, but in the USA it's usually either 15 years or 20 years depending on some details. There's some other "stuff" that comes into play for drug patents, but that wouldn't apply here.
If you can’t beat a better tool company copy those tool companies thanks Doc great video.
I just hope it'll make the price of the long nose slip joints go down a little on eBay. Maybe
I think there's enough sligh differences that it cant be called an 'exact copy'. Also the metallurgy and jaw\teeth hardening is not the same as the originals. Iirc TTC did the hardness testing on many of these and the are different (lower) HRC levels especially in the jaw area. Knipex is king in the waterpump pliers arena. Snapon is just crazy expensive for what they are.👌🏻👍🏻🛠️🔩🔧
✊🏻🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲✊🏻
I'll honestly be super disappointed if they copy the ball locking design aswell but if i had to guess they are using them being exact replicas as part of the marketing for them so they don't even care if it is a worse design, engineering a better solution may lead to less sales because it will be just another product.
Edit: Also the coating/plating looks different on the two wire strippers. The HF one is a generic matt one while the snapon seems to have a little bit of a shiny sheen when it hits the light which I really like. The only reason why I think it's a slightly different plating/finish is because the den of tools talked about how the chrome finish on tools has been really hard to do in the US due to environmental reasons in it's manufacturing. So i assume snapon and knipex have their own system that they created to deal with the environmental concerns. Meanwhile, the HF ones are almost certainly made in Taiwan where I guess they just don't care about any of that stuff.
Is what it is. They all do it it some form or fashion.
Overseas companies 'Rip/knock off' virtually every popular product. This just happens to be tools. I'd consider the SO copies, but I'd stick with Knipex, the price difference just isn't big enough.
If I was snap on or knipex, I would have been pissed, but hey I'm just a consumer I don't take any company side. I just enjoy the fruits of competition, even if those are just shameless copies.
Look at lineman pliers, who doesn't make them?
Honestly the ripping off of design is so annoying as someone who has spent s fortune on my tools. Cant believe they are able to get away with this
Regardless of the legal situation, these rip-offs should fail because people should have the self-respect and decency not to support a brand that's so blatantly stealing designs. There's plenty of great affordable options, no reason at all to go for this knock-off stuff. Unfortunately there's a distinct lack of decency these days. Personally I'd be completely happy working with budget tools to suit my budget, but I'd be embarrassed to work with tools designed to look like someone else's brand. Just my 2 cents.
Snapon lost a lawsuit they filed against Harbor Freight over their Daytona jack copying Snapon’s design. The court basically ruled a jack is a jack and Harbor Freight won. They’re probably going off that precedent and going to push it as far as they can get away with. Also it’s entirely possible they have some kind of deal with Snapon and are paying royalties or there’s some other backroom agreement but I doubt it.
I have the snap on LN47ACF and they are great, I'd say worth the price I paid. Shame that icon can just copy it, make it over seas and charge less but that's what you get with a free market I guess. Either way they are a sweet design!
Have you seen the Kobalt pliers at Lowe’s that looks like Knipex pliers my guess is the patents expired now everybody gonna have their version now
Not saying its not cool to have decent pliers at Icon’s prices, but they dont try to innovate on anything or make their own stuff. They just steal exactly what Knipex and Snappy does and makes an inferior product. Goes for most of their stuff, not just their pliers.
If the patents haven’t expired they will get Sued, Enjoy an Identical Pair of your Favorite Snap on Pliers for 1/4 the price while you can
This kind of reminds me of in the watch world the topic of “Homage” vs “knock off”.
You can get an invicta that looks 99% like a Rolex Submariner for $100 instead of $8k. It’s called an “homage” since it doesn’t say Rolexx or Rollex or something ridiculous such that it’s obviously a knock off.
But nonetheless you know they copied the design. And people are camped against each other either for or against homage watches, with many people owning both.
Anyway if the price is $30 more for the real deal I’ll take the SO and Knipex. I’d rather support factory workers who make a real living wage.
Spotted something: on the last HF pliers (the Knipex clone), there are 3 diagonal accents on one of the handles. Read recently that they show on A LOT of copies of various tools from famous brands. Once you know, you will see those 3 "grooves" everywhere. Almost like there is one giant factory somewhere making tons of pliers clones for multiple cheap corporations.
The only thing that makes sense...there are no patents for the original,.patents would protect for 10 years...go HF!
@@marrowsmith6271 make them in America and I don’t care what name is on them
They look like great pliers, and I don’t give a shit if they are snap on and Knipex clones; they just need to stop taking us for fools by fronting like they got this extensive R&D department coming up with all these ‘innovative’ tools.
I’d have more respect for HF if they just came out and said “Yeah Snap-On and Knipex make great tools, so much so that we decided to incorporate their designs into our own tools so that we can offer a product to the masses of equal quality at a much better value.” Just own your shit dude. No one is fooled.
In some ways, I feel HF does that when they say "Compare to" and then list a specific model of Snap On or Knipex. They aren't fully hiding it, but what they are doing is certainly raises eyebrows.
Nothing new in that playbook. It’s HB’s MO. If you shop HB, you know what you are buying… knock offs. And with prices sky rocketing… it’s what consumers will turn to.
So I guess the same model as China has come to the west. I have a friend in Hong Kong who has dealt with a lot of companies in the mainland. He says that all of the larger companies have a dedicated dept. that reverse engineers other companies products so that they can copy it. We've all known for a long time that China does it and a lot of people in the west sort of accept it now. I guess it was a matter of time before a company here blatantly does the same.
If the patents are expired, not much that can be done.
However, the fact that their design clearly LOOKS the same is bordering on fraud. They're attempting to pass off their product as a Snap-On.
But...the Snap on Prices are insane, so people will go for cheaper prices.
I don't have a lot of respect for someone claiming to be an "Engineer" who's job is to literally copy other people's designs.
Any person that has to present a product at a trade show acts sheepish knowing their product isn't the best. Do you really think GW reps think their scan tools are better than Autel or Topdon or any other brand?
It’s all about the patents bro tbh it’s ridiculous this whole tool thing it’s like comparing good year to Firestone they all do the same thing
The proper term is reverse engineering...😉
Please harbor freight..l love snap on but competition is great and i lose alot of tools
I mean they basically copied the knipex pliers wrench. And of course I ran right out and bought one. IMO if it's between $40 for icon and $60 for knipex it's worth the extra $20 for the quality. More so in the case of the twin grips pliers where the price difference is $10
Not saying you're wrong, but you are leaving out the 20 to 40% coupons at HF.
@b4zz3d59 you are right I did not take into account the sales. However as a guy that has icon and knipex, there's no comparison in quality.
@@RationalBazz Leaving out deals from the retailers that sell Knipex.
Video's like this are compensating for the wasted money spent on a name. HF made the same tool at a better price so you cry along with others who wasted the same money.
When trump put tariffs on the Chinese they may be snap on prices those machanics get excited icon may not be affordable 😢
Minds are made up that they "STOLE" Snap-on's designs..Did anyone ever think that they PAID Snap-on for access rights to develop them?... it's simple business..Enough money and any company will allow anyone to do anything 🤔
Icon, identical but better in every way. Snap on have serious quality control issues with their plier range. I'm currently trying to have some straight out of the box, poorly manufactured and poorly finished Snap on pliers replaced. 4 pliers out 12 are 'new defective' (two boxed sets of six). Snap on UK can't replace the specific part nos because the ones they hold in stock all exhibit similar faults. Crossed jaws on slip joint pliers - there's no play in the joint but the jaws are misaligned when closed (we have the exact same models in other handle colours that don't do this). The other pliers exhibit very poor finish to their sides, like really poor. I believe these issues are a result of how Snap on is cutting costs by forging several plier blanks in one go, then cutting them apart with lasers. It isn't working consisently and some pliers have noticable edge gouging, not something you'd expect from 'The World's Best Tools'. I firmly believe that pliers that really should go in the scrap bin are being pushed onto international markets such as the UK. When buying loose pliers from a tool truck you literally do the QC yourself. 'Cherry Picking' a pair of pliers with the best fit and finish should not be part of the buying experience. I'll never again buy boxed sets.
For everyone who loves HF if it was your tool or parts R&D and manufacturing getting ripped off/copied by someone else selling it for cheaper you wouldn’t be happy about it. They can only sell it cheaper bcs they didn’t invest any money in the R&D. We have this same problem in the automotive world with wheels and parts smh.
That’s exactly my problem with harbor freight. They are stealing everyone’s designs. In the knife world people with gather the pitch forks if a design is stolen. But in the tool world they act like it’s fair game.
As well as substandard metalurgy
Snap on is more profitable than ever. Take a look at their stock price.
@@spacecat7247 "substandard" 🤣 Nice one thats why Snap On ratchets are breaking at the same point as Icon right?
@svn5994 lol. You're laughing now. Keep funding the PRC. Let's see if that chicomm garbage is around in 50 or 60 years. I have SO, that I use all the time that IS that old. And I bet you have some crap toolbox that you put a SNAP ON logo on too.
I honestly couldnt care that one company is copying another. Just apart of the game imo
What's nice about HF doing it though, is they're offering their version at a considerably lower pricetag. It's benefitting the consumer, and that's all I really care about.
This is what China do. Software is a big one too. How is anyone gonna manage to sue them? They probably think they’ll chance it anyway…
It doesn’t feel right to just rip off a unique design
I think some regulations need to be enforced on Harbor Freight and Amazon Blaten Rip Offs
Reverse engineering is as old as the human race.
😂 I need a job at Harbor Fright R&D... go onto tool trucks, buy pliers, bring them to china, produce more.
Huh
If they can do it same but cheaper, I'm there, dude.
Literally who cares? The concepts of copyright, patents and “intellectual property” are detrimental to humanity.
I buy the Harbor Freight Icon ones for my automotive tool box knowing they're going to get more dirty and more abused and warranty is easier. I use Knipex everywhere else
Here's a good question, who cares? More options, better prices than the ridiculously overpriced options we have now, and to be honest, its fine by me. Like seriously, who gives a shit if this guy copied that guy. Everything is a freaking copy or variation of something that already exists.
Everyone knows it's a snappy rip off. At that price I don't care. LoL
HF guys be like “snap on sucks!” But anything HF has that is even close to worth a shit are direct copies of actual tool companies
That’s fine Icon copies everything BUT THE PRICE!😊 Screw snap on
I get a kick out of how he calls him self and engineer and has a team of engineers working with him ... but well look at his Age he is GenZ and to them Engineering is as simple as tracing a Deign made by some one else ...because they a re all LAZY .......... changing the Deign or making a new on that would bean Work and Real education and Life Experience and so on
He also didn’t mention what type of degree he had
You’re generalizing, which makes your statements ridiculous.
These are copies. look alikes. the steel is not the same, nor is the hardening the same
Do you have evidence to back up that statement? Have you seen docs video on the flush cuts? The icon actually perform better than the snap on. In my opinion that is in no way a “look alike”, it’s the better tool.
Lifetime warranty baby!
Icon wrenches are the real deal. Snap on is overpriced and they know it.