You want 100+ watts for bass only if you like the modern "live" sound of bass overwhelming everything else. Some of us have very fond memories of the days when bassists used Ampeg B-15's or Black Face Fender Bassman's for their live gigs. The bass was "there" and solid, but wasn't painful and drowning out the drummer. Yes, PA systems have improved a lot, and not just so you can run all the instruments through it to cause ear damage in the audience. Many of us, in the sixties and seventies used Kustom or Peavey (I had both) 100 watt PA's, with two columns of four 12" speakers each.....and they easily handled three-part vocal harmony, and could be heard over a loud guitar, bass, Hammond, and drums band. I'm glad the Marshall, Hiwatt, Acoustic, etc "arms race" for bigger and louder amps is losing to (as you say) the 15 to fifty watt combo amps......in fact the greatest amp in the world for almost any application is the 22 watt Fender Deluxe Reverb. I look forward to more videos........
Yes, unless you're playing a gig on the back of a truck in an open field, you'll never really need 100 watts of valve power. If you're playing in a large venue, they'll almost certainly have a quality pa system, so a 20 watt amp is more than enough. There are a few exceptions, but rarely so. ✌️
As a FOh engineer I thank you for the information you are sharing with the world. Guitarist need to focus in achieving a great tone and stop looking for loudness. Did sound for a famous guitarist he showed up with a little 5 watt Hiwatt head, best tone I ever heard.
I love these videos, you have a talent with explaining things in a clear and friendly way. Here's a video suggestion - guitar cabinets. If a beginner wants to take a plunge from combos into head + cab world, which ones should he consider, differences between 1x10, 2x10, 1x12, 2x12, plywood, MDF, open back, close back, greenback, jensen, v30, does it make sense for home use etc. etc. Huge, complex and often confusing world to people who haven't been doing it for years.
The speaker is so important. Love tube amps, though I do have a solid state yamaha wedge amp that sounds more vintage tube than most tube amps themselves.
I had a Peavey valveking combo with 50 20 and 1 watt mode. At home I never put it above 1 watt. The only reason I bought it because hardly anyone makes low wattage tube amps with 12 inch speakers. 1 watt through a 12 inch sounds great.
I run a little 5e3 clone that keeps up pretty well in most heavy applications. In certain situations it could use a little more volume. But it’s 15w? Amazing little amp
Thank you for this video. I recently replaced a "200 watt" Trace Elliot Series 6 combo amp with 4X10" that always blew the doors off of anything close to it in rated wattage. It was hard for a person out of the know to filter through current bass amps and sorting what was even close to comparable in volume and perceived loudness.
Good video man, very useful information. I myself always has a 50w Marshall or Gjika with either a 412 or 212 cab. Now I own two 24w amps and a class D 200watt if I need clean power.
Thanks Mark, all the best from Berkshire, UK. I was very interested in your take on the Fender Pro Junior - and immediately bought one. What a sterling tone machine! I have been through the gamut from Marshall stacks [I had a guy change the Marshall logo on the speaker to Meathead for fun] through Dual Showmans with 4x12 cab, Music Man HD 130 (I think) with 10" speakers, Mesa Boogie MK IV (which I will keep), Deluxe Reverb (also a keeper), Rivera Super Champ ( don't enjoy the sound when it gets above clean), WEM Dominator MK I bass (keeper - beautiful jazz tone), Gallien Kreuger 250ML with matching stereo 4x12 cab (nails the 80s guitar sound- Iron Maiden etc, keeper); these amps are all in the room. I find that my go to amps are the smaller ones that deliver the tone I hear in my head at the time when I am "going for something" for recording purposes. To this end I am using the Pro Junior (tiny power, but small tube amps are loud as you point out here), an early Yamaha THR10 (also tiny when micced), and an early MK I Groove Tubes STPG through a Celestion 1x12 cab for studio work. Live work has been extremely limited due to Covid over the past couple of years but prior to that I have graduated to using the Deluxe Reverb or the G-K +/- 4x 12 depending upon the type of music. My back is not up to hefting the Meathead amp and cab or the Boogie around anymore. It is interesting how we use the various amps we possess in order to meet the needs of a particular work situation - at least that is my explanation when my wife asks why I need so many of these boxes, not to mention the ever increasing pile of guitar cases! I really enjoy your take on the practicalities of the usefulness and application of the plethora of gear out there, and I do tune into your live chats with your extremely intelligent "partner in crime", albeit at some remove after the real time feed due to our different time zones. Please persevere with Gary's Guitars and we will stay with you. You can listen to the music we produce at www.afunja.com, it is weird but we love it. The current mixes are way too crowded but that is being addressed - exhausting work! Thanks for being there, honesty will always win out. 1ove, Mark
Hi, love your breakdown of tones. Very surprised not more folks here. Question........why dont acoustic engineers address speaker enclosure improvements........i use a homemade plexyglass folding 3 leaf panel i put behind my amp (combp)........so so much tone........moving closer or further is the usefull variant??????
Leo Fender made his amps open back for the sounds, and said, "if you want a closed back amp, put it against the wall. A speaker doesn't know what direction it's pointing in, and pushes a lot of sound out the back. You are redirecting that sound, great idea.
Not too much mention of the various types of speakers and how they affect sound? Are all speakers equally efficient at pushing air? Some have really big magnet structures. Some are small. How about frequency output from various speakers. Will a class D of same wattage as tube amp pushing same speakers sound same if tubes are not overdriven? Interesting stuff.
Gary thanks, am in agreement. For me and several players I know, we are very tired of overdriven sounds. We have to gig it and record it. It's so engrained that fellow guitarist we play with, times a few million we don't know, play everything in grossly overdriven sound. Playing a piece clean is impossible for them. It's like drugs for pete's sake. Nearly all studio work by top performers is never as distorted and it sells. For personal recording, if a piece requires, I play mild distortion. One can actually distinguish the notes. Much more musical, imo. Any thoughts??
Yes but obviously depends on what genre of music you are into, with time rock music went into more and more distortion and to some that's literally music to their ears. I'm with you that I'm not one of them
Great video man, I thoroughly enjoyed it! Could you clarify about the Fender Bassman "claiming" to be 50 watts? Were they really more or less than that? Thanks
It claims to be 50 watts at 4 ohms.. maybe... more likely tops out at 40. Or should I say "behaves like a 40 watt amp, even though it's rated at 50. Don't get me wrong, that's crazy loud.
@@GarysGuitarsUSA Oh yeah I know, my Dad had one back in the day. I never knew that it was more like 40, I thought you were gonna say more like 85 like the Twin! Hey thanks for the reply.
Because they want to get people to purchase it and will use the word “tube” any chance they get in an ad for a digital modeling amp. The tone master series is just a damn fender mustang with only one amp model on it lol don’t buy it
It's all still black magic to me. I went from a dsl100 and 4*12 cab to a Peavey Classic 30 combo and never struggled. Then I put an 8ohm speaker in and it got even louder. I can't imagine ever needing more than 30 watts. The eq stack affects the gain/loudness too. If you crank all the eq it's even louder. As for class D, I ran a 1000w class d active pa speaker with modelling and it wasn't great, I could easily peak the input and fart the output with to much bass in the cab modelling.
Hi Gary. What would you recommend for a bass player with a Hartke 400w RMS 4x10 cabinet rated at 8ohms? 1. A 500W RMS amp(330W RMS @ 8ohms) - Hartke LX5500 2. A 800W RMS amp(500W RMS @ 8ohms) - Hartke LX8500 Both amps are D-Class. Is it true that's usually better to have enough headroom? Should I go 500 or 800? It's possible that in the future I will add another 8ohm cab wired in parallel so that would be 2x400W at 4ohms worth of cabinets. Will the 500W amp still be enough? Thank you in advance.
headroom is always good in bass, so if money is not an object, go for the higher watt amp. Even though you won't use those extra watts in volume, the headroom keeps the mids "round."
No disrespect, but you need to go back and fact check your claims. Firstly, tube amps sound louder because of two factors, distortion content and speaker efficiency. Hence transistor amps are cleaner (less distortion) than tube amps. Secondly, an Ampeg SVT was 300 watts with a rock solid power supply because the bottom end was so demanding. I'm not so sure the class "D" amps are good or bad, nor do I think they are producing more or less power. I do know Fender has gone after the modeling market with remakes of their classic amps that only replicate a specific model, as opposed to many of the models. The reason amps are smaller is the players don't want to haul heavy gear around from gig to gig. There are other claims you make, but the ones I have outlined seem to be the most important. I hope that clears it up for you. Like I said, no disrespect intended, but do your homework.
"tube amps sound louder because of two factors, distortion content and speaker efficiency" Solid state amplifiers can use the same speakers as tube amps, therefore either can have efficient or inefficient speakers. I did mention the "overtone series" and that covers your point about distortion content, even harmony distortion. Read Russell Hamm's well known paper on this, you can find it easily here on the internet. I had the opportunity to speak to him about this in person as homework. Class D amps are capable of producing MUCH more power in a MUCH more efficient way. I didn't make that up. I run a guitar store and every day I talk to player who want lighter amplifiers, so that also is not news to me, and more and more are going for lower watt amplifiers. I'll do my homework if you do yours too!
You want 100+ watts for bass only if you like the modern "live" sound of bass overwhelming everything else. Some of us have very fond memories of the days when bassists used Ampeg B-15's or Black Face Fender Bassman's for their live gigs. The bass was "there" and solid, but wasn't painful and drowning out the drummer. Yes, PA systems have improved a lot, and not just so you can run all the instruments through it to cause ear damage in the audience. Many of us, in the sixties and seventies used Kustom or Peavey (I had both) 100 watt PA's, with two columns of four 12" speakers each.....and they easily handled three-part vocal harmony, and could be heard over a loud guitar, bass, Hammond, and drums band. I'm glad the Marshall, Hiwatt, Acoustic, etc "arms race" for bigger and louder amps is losing to (as you say) the 15 to fifty watt combo amps......in fact the greatest amp in the world for almost any application is the 22 watt Fender Deluxe Reverb. I look forward to more videos........
Yes, unless you're playing a gig on the back of a truck in an open field, you'll never really need 100 watts of valve power. If you're playing in a large venue, they'll almost certainly have a quality pa system, so a 20 watt amp is more than enough. There are a few exceptions, but rarely so. ✌️
As a FOh engineer I thank you for the information you are sharing with the world. Guitarist need to focus in achieving a great tone and stop looking for loudness. Did sound for a famous guitarist he showed up with a little 5 watt Hiwatt head, best tone I ever heard.
I love these videos, you have a talent with explaining things in a clear and friendly way. Here's a video suggestion - guitar cabinets. If a beginner wants to take a plunge from combos into head + cab world, which ones should he consider, differences between 1x10, 2x10, 1x12, 2x12, plywood, MDF, open back, close back, greenback, jensen, v30, does it make sense for home use etc. etc. Huge, complex and often confusing world to people who haven't been doing it for years.
The speaker is so important. Love tube amps, though I do have a solid state yamaha wedge amp that sounds more vintage tube than most tube amps themselves.
This is so fascinating. Thanks.
I had a Peavey valveking combo with 50 20 and 1 watt mode. At home I never put it above 1 watt. The only reason I bought it because hardly anyone makes low wattage tube amps with 12 inch speakers. 1 watt through a 12 inch sounds great.
I run a little 5e3 clone that keeps up pretty well in most heavy applications. In certain situations it could use a little more volume. But it’s 15w? Amazing little amp
There were several things about the history of amps I didn’t know, thank you!
Great video. Love the short form concise single topic. Do more of these!
Thanks.. I have some, I'll put them in a playlist so you can find them easier.
Thank you for this video. I recently replaced a "200 watt" Trace Elliot Series 6 combo amp with 4X10" that always blew the doors off of anything close to it in rated wattage. It was hard for a person out of the know to filter through current bass amps and sorting what was even close to comparable in volume and perceived loudness.
This is my favorite show on television.
ha! Thanks!
Good video man, very useful information. I myself always has a 50w Marshall or Gjika with either a 412 or 212 cab. Now I own two 24w amps and a class D 200watt if I need clean power.
Thanks Mark, all the best from Berkshire, UK. I was very interested in your take on the Fender Pro Junior - and immediately bought one. What a sterling tone machine! I have been through the gamut from Marshall stacks [I had a guy change the Marshall logo on the speaker to Meathead for fun] through Dual Showmans with 4x12 cab, Music Man HD 130 (I think) with 10" speakers, Mesa Boogie MK IV (which I will keep), Deluxe Reverb (also a keeper), Rivera Super Champ ( don't enjoy the sound when it gets above clean), WEM Dominator MK I bass (keeper - beautiful jazz tone), Gallien Kreuger 250ML with matching stereo 4x12 cab (nails the 80s guitar sound- Iron Maiden etc, keeper); these amps are all in the room. I find that my go to amps are the smaller ones that deliver the tone I hear in my head at the time when I am "going for something" for recording purposes. To this end I am using the Pro Junior (tiny power, but small tube amps are loud as you point out here), an early Yamaha THR10 (also tiny when micced), and an early MK I Groove Tubes STPG through a Celestion 1x12 cab for studio work. Live work has been extremely limited due to Covid over the past couple of years but prior to that I have graduated to using the Deluxe Reverb or the G-K +/- 4x 12 depending upon the type of music. My back is not up to hefting the Meathead amp and cab or the Boogie around anymore. It is interesting how we use the various amps we possess in order to meet the needs of a particular work situation - at least that is my explanation when my wife asks why I need so many of these boxes, not to mention the ever increasing pile of guitar cases! I really enjoy your take on the practicalities of the usefulness and application of the plethora of gear out there, and I do tune into your live chats with your extremely intelligent "partner in crime", albeit at some remove after the real time feed due to our different time zones. Please persevere with Gary's Guitars and we will stay with you. You can listen to the music we produce at www.afunja.com, it is weird but we love it. The current mixes are way too crowded but that is being addressed - exhausting work! Thanks for being there, honesty will always win out. 1ove, Mark
Thank you
Good video. I've got two deluxes. A 67 and a 53, 22 and 12 watts respectively. If the tweed can't do it the blackface will. Bout all you need
I use 2 5 watt champ style heads amps In stereo.
Both use a 1x12 speaker.
Perfect volume
Hi, love your breakdown of tones. Very surprised not more folks here. Question........why dont acoustic engineers address speaker enclosure improvements........i use a homemade plexyglass folding 3 leaf panel i put behind my amp (combp)........so so much tone........moving closer or further is the usefull variant??????
Leo Fender made his amps open back for the sounds, and said, "if you want a closed back amp, put it against the wall. A speaker doesn't know what direction it's pointing in, and pushes a lot of sound out the back. You are redirecting that sound, great idea.
Not too much mention of the various types of speakers and how they affect sound? Are all speakers equally efficient at pushing air? Some have really big magnet structures. Some are small. How about frequency output from various speakers. Will a class D of same wattage as tube amp pushing same speakers sound same if tubes are not overdriven? Interesting stuff.
Would be a whole feature length documentary to cover everything from amps to cabs and speakers. But hopefully it's covered in future videos
Gary thanks, am in agreement. For me and several players I know, we are very tired of overdriven sounds. We have to gig it and record it. It's so engrained that fellow guitarist we play with, times a few million we don't know, play everything in grossly overdriven sound. Playing a piece clean is impossible for them. It's like drugs for pete's sake. Nearly all studio work by top performers is never as distorted and it sells. For personal recording, if a piece requires, I play mild distortion. One can actually distinguish the notes. Much more musical, imo. Any thoughts??
Yes but obviously depends on what genre of music you are into, with time rock music went into more and more distortion and to some that's literally music to their ears. I'm with you that I'm not one of them
Great video man, I thoroughly enjoyed it! Could you clarify about the Fender Bassman "claiming" to be 50 watts? Were they really more or less than that? Thanks
It claims to be 50 watts at 4 ohms.. maybe... more likely tops out at 40. Or should I say "behaves like a 40 watt amp, even though it's rated at 50. Don't get me wrong, that's crazy loud.
@@GarysGuitarsUSA Oh yeah I know, my Dad had one back in the day. I never knew that it was more like 40, I thought you were gonna say more like 85 like the Twin! Hey thanks for the reply.
How is Fender saying that the Tone master series are rated at tube wattage, but they are solid state....?
Because they want to get people to purchase it and will use the word “tube” any chance they get in an ad for a digital modeling amp. The tone master series is just a damn fender mustang with only one amp model on it lol don’t buy it
They make it "behave" like the amp that it's emulating.
It's all still black magic to me. I went from a dsl100 and 4*12 cab to a Peavey Classic 30 combo and never struggled. Then I put an 8ohm speaker in and it got even louder. I can't imagine ever needing more than 30 watts. The eq stack affects the gain/loudness too. If you crank all the eq it's even louder. As for class D, I ran a 1000w class d active pa speaker with modelling and it wasn't great, I could easily peak the input and fart the output with to much bass in the cab modelling.
It's still black magic to me too. I have a 12 watt amp that's so loud you can't be in the same room with it all the way up.
Hi Gary. What would you recommend for a bass player with a Hartke 400w RMS 4x10 cabinet rated at 8ohms?
1. A 500W RMS amp(330W RMS @ 8ohms) - Hartke LX5500
2. A 800W RMS amp(500W RMS @ 8ohms) - Hartke LX8500
Both amps are D-Class.
Is it true that's usually better to have enough headroom?
Should I go 500 or 800?
It's possible that in the future I will add another 8ohm cab wired in parallel so that would be 2x400W at 4ohms worth of cabinets. Will the 500W amp still be enough?
Thank you in advance.
headroom is always good in bass, so if money is not an object, go for the higher watt amp. Even though you won't use those extra watts in volume, the headroom keeps the mids "round."
@@GarysGuitarsUSA thank you sir. I went with the 800w anyway, it was 60$ more expensive, but it's worth it.
So Gary, what amp would you recommend for a standard strat?
Fender Twin. But that's a big amp... but there's nothing like the sound.
@@GarysGuitarsUSA Yeah that's what I was thinking as well, but now the question is which one and what mods.
@@lesliel1182 Best value is get a 70's silver-plate and do the black-plate mod
i miss my stereo chorus 212 peavey
the older Peavy stuff is no joke.
Watt...?🤪
No disrespect, but you need to go back and fact check your claims. Firstly, tube amps sound louder because of two factors, distortion content and speaker efficiency. Hence transistor amps are cleaner (less distortion) than tube amps. Secondly, an Ampeg SVT was 300 watts with a rock solid power supply because the bottom end was so demanding. I'm not so sure the class "D" amps are good or bad, nor do I think they are producing more or less power. I do know Fender has gone after the modeling market with remakes of their classic amps that only replicate a specific model, as opposed to many of the models. The reason amps are smaller is the players don't want to haul heavy gear around from gig to gig. There are other claims you make, but the ones I have outlined seem to be the most important. I hope that clears it up for you. Like I said, no disrespect intended, but do your homework.
"tube amps sound louder because of two factors, distortion content and speaker efficiency" Solid state amplifiers can use the same speakers as tube amps, therefore either can have efficient or inefficient speakers. I did mention the "overtone series" and that covers your point about distortion content, even harmony distortion. Read Russell Hamm's well known paper on this, you can find it easily here on the internet. I had the opportunity to speak to him about this in person as homework. Class D amps are capable of producing MUCH more power in a MUCH more efficient way. I didn't make that up. I run a guitar store and every day I talk to player who want lighter amplifiers, so that also is not news to me, and more and more are going for lower watt amplifiers. I'll do my homework if you do yours too!