Dude, the fact that I see you in the comments giving advice to so many people is awesome. I'm a complete newbie to this stuff but you make it easy to understand.
Yes, setting sag as a principle will work with every bike. The only thing you have to be careful of with forks is that some of them have a mechanical bottom out above the fork leg casting. Some are close like 5mm, some are 25mm. The 03/04 R6 was a GREAT bike. One of my personal favorites. 5mm shim between shock and frame and set the fork position to 520mm from the top of the lower triple clamp to the center of the axle Hope this helps! Cheers, Dave Moss
Thanks Dave. Another amazing video! Just set my 07 R6 today. 40mm Front, 35mm rear. Amazed at the difference it made in handling. The guy I bought it from must have been twice my weight because I felt like I had no suspension.
@fastsc92 When you lift the wheel off the ground you squish the fork top out springs and that in turn extends the fork length. The only time that happens is wheelying so I use the 120mm. So sag of 25mm gives you a starting point so you know where you are. Put a zip tie on one leg and see how much travel you are using. For street riding you should be using all but an inch, so adjust preload accordingly to get the right travel. That's fine with the rear - no top out spring Dave Moss Host
fork preload is okay, rebound at 16 clicks, compression at 8 clicks (blue). Shock preload is okay, compression (gold) t 1.75 turns from closed, compression (blue) at 10 clicks at 3 clicks out Dave Moss Host
@TverbR6 set the fork and shock preload to the minimum. Set compression at 14 clicks out all the way around, high speed at two turns out all around. Set rebound at 16 clicks out in the fork and 10 clicks out in the shock. Dave Moss Host
those are road/track settings for aggressive riding. You can always take out compression damping for more plushness. Fork high speed at 1.5 turns out and shock high speed at 2 turns out.
With that bike I would start with 30-32 rear and 32-35 front. Middle 'B' means good throttle control and steady braking so having a little softer suspension will be in your favor. Most important is balancing the bike so set fork and shock rebound at 7 clicks out to start.
@fastsc92 remember that sag is just a known starting point t then work from to meet your riding style and pace needs. For the track, fork LS compression range is 8-14, fork rebound is 12-16. Shock rebound is 8-14 and shock LS compression is 6-12 given shock preload settings. Start with your settings and then move in on the adjustments one adjustment at a time. Dave Moss Host
@DrPrajo don't know why I missed this Drago. The shock should be on the 2nd to lowest notch on the ramp. High speed at 14 clicks out, low speed at 12 clicks out, with rebound at 8 clicks out. With the forks, preload should be at line # 2, rebound at 30-40 clicks based on oil age and low compression at 9 clicks out. Dave Moss Host
it will wind itself up from useless suspension oil (fork change at 5-7k and shock at 10-12K). Set sag at 35mm front and rear, compression at 9 clicks out all around and rebound forks at 14 clicks out and shock at 3 clicks out
dave moss. youve done so many S-tune ups and videos but i am still suspension challenged. by any chance you dont have a chart of all the settings youve done? PS: 09 R6 (stock settings)- 6 feet 240 pounds- street rider. thanks for your hard work and dedication.
The rear will be too stiff, but the front will be fine. Put the forks to 1 line of preload showing and the rear to the lowest preload settings. How many miles are on the bike? Are you going to do any maintenance before you ride it? I also need to know what aftermarket parts are on it.
thanks mate just needed a double check because I was in a coma for a while and was not sure if memory is right, thanks that he's me a lot again thanks, even though knew I really needed to check it,
@miketatty set the fork preload at 2 lines showing and shock preload at its lowest settings. Put compression in the middle all the way around. Dave Moss Host
@mxpxdudeski Thanks, and we plan on doing a lot more of them this summer on a slew of sportbikes from several brands. The more people know the safer their bikes will be. Dave Moss Host
Great video! I have an R6 2008, approx 1000km's, everything stock, that I drive quite a lot of trackdays with. What is the recommended sag front/rear for mostly track riding? My bodyweight without gear is 75kg.
@mrmaniac79 not specifically on those topics of suspension, but in many of the 2 Clicks Out video series, we drill down on those topics with live testing and tuning at the track. dave Moss Host
let go of the bars first to feel what the bike is telling you and back off the pace a little. You may need to add/remove some compression or rebound to the forks, but only do one adjustment at a time eg: fork compression out
3:40 Would you remove all the pre-load for winter storage of the bike? 4:23 35-40mm of sag (extended minus with rider) in the front suspension (forks), is that a general number or only for this bike? I assume it is for the street based on what you say at 9:40. 2:03 For the street you want 30-35mm of sag (extended minus with rider) in the back suspension (shock). 4:26 As all the preload is off and the sag is right are the front springs too stiff, or just right if you include riding gear? Rear suspension (shock): R1=596mm (fully extended suspension) R2=589mm (bike on the ground without rider) R3=565mm (bike on the ground with rider) Free sag=R1-R2=7mm Ride height=R1-R3=31mm Front suspension (forks): F1=120mm (fully extended suspension) F2=Unknown (bike on the ground without rider) F3=89mm (bike on the ground with rider) Free sag=F1-F2=Unknown Ride height=F1-F3=31mm
sorry this slipped through the cracks. Numbers are based on starting point philosophy and the numbers change based on the rider, their experience, riding style and ability. I will always start with 30-40mm front and rear for the street and 30-35 for the forks and 25-30mm for the track.
The rule of thumb is that there is always more travel in the forks than in the rear shock, so why give up travel in the forks that you can use by setting the fork sag too stiff? Dave Moss Host
What causes front end shake at high speed/hard acceleration? Low sided the bike, frame has a dent but no cracks or visable warpage. Loosened up the tension in the bike retorqued in sequence, new balanced tires. The bike rides straight, goes into corners normal etc.. Rides perfectly normal even at 75 mph on the freeway, only happens under acceleration.
1. Rear tire pressure a little low taking weight off the front tire. 2. Fork rebound being a little too fast. Try 1. first with pressures, then try 2. once pressures are set.
Thanks for the feedback. Glad the videos are helpful. How many miles on the bike and how many aftermarket parts? Has the suspension been serviced? Can you reply to dave(at)feelthetrackdotcom? Thanks!
Dave just bought 2008 Versys 12000 mi. I adjusted the chain slack to 1in...it was at1 1/8in not for out. Today was my 3rd ride on the bike and I noticed it sounded as if the drive system was not staying smoothly engaged at low speed in 2-4 gears. Kind of like if I were jockeying the throttle a little which I was not. I was holding the throttle input as steady as Enjoy you shows. Admire your skill, ,knowledge and ability to communicate technical information. Wayne 80 year old rider San Antonio,Texas
thanks for the video. would have been nice if you had told us that sag is from topped out and not static sag instead of leaving those who don't know to do the math themselves with the numbers you're saying out loud.
@RDSSPIEGEL I'll give you the data points, and normally ask for a paypal donation in return located on my homepage at feelthetrack(dot)com Forks: preload at 4 lines showing rebound at 12 clicks out low speed compression at 6 clicks out Shock: preload at notch 6 from the bottom low speed compression at 6 clicks out high speed at 1 turn out rebound at 5 clicks out
Dave, Thank you for all your expert advise... I have a very short video of my 07 R6 with what should be the correct sag settings to my weight. I still have factory springs front and rear but have the front pre load (adj's) almost maxed out.... The rear is at the 6th notch and even being a big guy I'm at 30mm of "rider sag" I took a video of me pushing down on the bike as I've seen you do quite often.... Would you be willing to just glance at it and see what you think about the action of the suspension?? I just took it for a short 10/15 min ride and that was the very first ride with the new front forks being serviced. So... Sorry this is such a long msg but please let me know if you wouldn't mind taking a quick look at this video just so I can get Your opinion. I did the calculations and im at 30mm R and 40mm F with my big rump on the bike.... I took the measurements in my suit as we'll just to try amd get as precise as I could.. I cannot load that video on here so again, if you're cool with watching it for me, please send me a link that i could send it to. Or if it makes your life much easier I can always just post it on youtube and tag you in it... Either way let me know. Oh, please note... This is track only bike. Doesn't get the normal street wear and tear!! Just thought I'd add that if it matters. Thanks in advance!!! GregB44
Please email me with answers to the following questions: dave@davemosstuning.com. What year R6, how many miles on the bike, changes from stock, fork and shock oil age? Tire brand and sizes. Thanks
I get that we will really use tire wear to fine tune all of this, and that balance front to rear can be evaluated without a rider, but wouldn't you rather have a rider on the bike to evaluate rebound?
Personally - it would be extremely difficult to do with the rider on the bike. Having tried both methods and time being the major constraint, without the rider is far more effective.
What happens to metal with heat? It expands....... CHeck static sag again when the shock is hot. If that is the case, increase to 35-37mm. Let the cable tie on the forks show how much travel you use with that setting. If you bottom out, you are better than the OEM equipment and need a stronger spring.
Hi Dave, I have a Yamaha R6 2008 U.K. version. I weight 85kg with all leathers etc. The current settings is stock and I'm looking for a better set up. Please please help. A bit more info, the only riding I do is twisty sometimes bumpy uk roads. I find when pushing the bike hard it ties it self in knots. I'm comparing it to my GSXR 750 K6 which was a plush ride. regards David.
I just purchased 2007 yamaha r6 and found it that bolt from the engine mount is missing i wondering is there a spacer? Before i put my new frame slider
Hello Dave, unfortunately i don't have any shop nearby that can setup the suspension of my two bikes (2011 zx-10r with ohlins front and rear and a 2017 yamaha r1m). would it be possible to give me approximate settings according to my weight in case you have done a similiar setup before with someone in my weight zone. I would gladly donate if you could help :D
Pascal. Please answer the following questions for both bikes separately and reply with this email: dave@davemosstuning.com. How many miles on the bike, what changes from stock, have the forks and shock ever been serviced, what brand and size tires are you using. Thanks.
Dave Moss Tuning Dave I have a question, I just purchased a 2010 r6 that came lowered. It looks like it has stock some bones but it's so low to the ground. The forks are lowered in the front I'm wondering it the rear shock is slammed to the ground or if it's something else they I'm missing for being so low
Dude, the fact that I see you in the comments giving advice to so many people is awesome. I'm a complete newbie to this stuff but you make it easy to understand.
Thanks for using the content to increase your knowledge base!
Yes, setting sag as a principle will work with every bike. The only thing you have to be careful of with forks is that some of them have a mechanical bottom out above the fork leg casting. Some are close like 5mm, some are 25mm.
The 03/04 R6 was a GREAT bike. One of my personal favorites. 5mm shim between shock and frame and set the fork position to 520mm from the top of the lower triple clamp to the center of the axle
Hope this helps! Cheers, Dave Moss
Have to respect a man who takes the time to respond to his viewers
Thanks Dave. Another amazing video! Just set my 07 R6 today. 40mm Front, 35mm rear. Amazed at the difference it made in handling. The guy I bought it from must have been twice my weight because I felt like I had no suspension.
We appreciate what you and the team does for us guys that's willing to learn. Every video is easy to follow. I'm always recommending you guys.
Really appreciate all that you do for the riding community, Dave!
@fastsc92 When you lift the wheel off the ground you squish the fork top out springs and that in turn extends the fork length. The only time that happens is wheelying so I use the 120mm. So sag of 25mm gives you a starting point so you know where you are. Put a zip tie on one leg and see how much travel you are using. For street riding you should be using all but an inch, so adjust preload accordingly to get the right travel. That's fine with the rear - no top out spring
Dave Moss
Host
fork preload is okay, rebound at 16 clicks, compression at 8 clicks (blue). Shock preload is okay, compression (gold) t 1.75 turns from closed, compression (blue) at 10 clicks at 3 clicks out
Dave Moss
Host
@TverbR6 set the fork and shock preload to the minimum. Set compression at 14 clicks out all the way around, high speed at two turns out all around. Set rebound at 16 clicks out in the fork and 10 clicks out in the shock.
Dave Moss
Host
those are road/track settings for aggressive riding. You can always take out compression damping for more plushness. Fork high speed at 1.5 turns out and shock high speed at 2 turns out.
With that bike I would start with 30-32 rear and 32-35 front. Middle 'B' means good throttle control and steady braking so having a little softer suspension will be in your favor. Most important is balancing the bike so set fork and shock rebound at 7 clicks out to start.
@fastsc92 remember that sag is just a known starting point t then work from to meet your riding style and pace needs. For the track, fork LS compression range is 8-14, fork rebound is 12-16. Shock rebound is 8-14 and shock LS compression is 6-12 given shock preload settings.
Start with your settings and then move in on the adjustments one adjustment at a time.
Dave Moss
Host
@DrPrajo don't know why I missed this Drago. The shock should be on the 2nd to lowest notch on the ramp. High speed at 14 clicks out, low speed at 12 clicks out, with rebound at 8 clicks out. With the forks, preload should be at line # 2, rebound at 30-40 clicks based on oil age and low compression at 9 clicks out.
Dave Moss
Host
it will wind itself up from useless suspension oil (fork change at 5-7k and shock at 10-12K). Set sag at 35mm front and rear, compression at 9 clicks out all around and rebound forks at 14 clicks out and shock at 3 clicks out
dave moss. youve done so many S-tune ups and videos but i am still suspension challenged.
by any chance you dont have a chart of all the settings youve done?
PS: 09 R6 (stock settings)- 6 feet 240 pounds- street rider.
thanks for your hard work and dedication.
The rear will be too stiff, but the front will be fine. Put the forks to 1 line of preload showing and the rear to the lowest preload settings. How many miles are on the bike? Are you going to do any maintenance before you ride it? I also need to know what aftermarket parts are on it.
@29Cotic fork sag should be 35mm and rear soc sag 27-32mm
Dave Moss
Host
Great video thanks for taking the time to make this! Definitely answered a lot of my questions!
thanks mate just needed a double check because I was in a coma for a while and was not sure if memory is right, thanks that he's me a lot again thanks, even though knew I really needed to check it,
slow speed compression will start at stock and then be made slightly stiffer to cope with braking and accelerating forces.
@miketatty set the fork preload at 2 lines showing and shock preload at its lowest settings. Put compression in the middle all the way around.
Dave Moss
Host
@mxpxdudeski Thanks, and we plan on doing a lot more of them this summer on a slew of sportbikes from several brands. The more people know the safer their bikes will be.
Dave Moss
Host
how many miles on the bike and what has been changed from OEM to aftermarket?
Yea HERRIN!!
The People Champion!
#HerrinCompound4Life
line 1 or 2 depending on gearing and tires and numbers of shims between the shock and frame.
Gold! Thanks for sharing this!
Great video! I have an R6 2008, approx 1000km's, everything stock, that I drive quite a lot of trackdays with. What is the recommended sag front/rear for mostly track riding? My bodyweight without gear is 75kg.
Tror det där är något jag verkligen måste göra på min spetta...
great Video ;)
Will these basic rules apply to all motorcycles. I have a 2004 R6!
@mrmaniac79 not specifically on those topics of suspension, but in many of the 2 Clicks Out video series, we drill down on those topics with live testing and tuning at the track.
dave Moss
Host
yes, leave at stock settings
Hi David - how many miles on the bike and how much has been changed on it? Please reply to daveat feelthetrackdotcom
let go of the bars first to feel what the bike is telling you and back off the pace a little. You may need to add/remove some compression or rebound to the forks, but only do one adjustment at a time eg: fork compression out
3:40 Would you remove all the pre-load for winter storage of the bike?
4:23 35-40mm of sag (extended minus with rider) in the front suspension (forks), is that a general number or only for this bike? I assume it is for the street based on what you say at 9:40.
2:03 For the street you want 30-35mm of sag (extended minus with rider) in the back suspension (shock).
4:26 As all the preload is off and the sag is right are the front springs too stiff, or just right if you include riding gear?
Rear suspension (shock):
R1=596mm (fully extended suspension)
R2=589mm (bike on the ground without rider)
R3=565mm (bike on the ground with rider)
Free sag=R1-R2=7mm
Ride height=R1-R3=31mm
Front suspension (forks):
F1=120mm (fully extended suspension)
F2=Unknown (bike on the ground without rider)
F3=89mm (bike on the ground with rider)
Free sag=F1-F2=Unknown
Ride height=F1-F3=31mm
sorry this slipped through the cracks. Numbers are based on starting point philosophy and the numbers change based on the rider, their experience, riding style and ability. I will always start with 30-40mm front and rear for the street and 30-35 for the forks and 25-30mm for the track.
The rule of thumb is that there is always more travel in the forks than in the rear shock, so why give up travel in the forks that you can use by setting the fork sag too stiff?
Dave Moss
Host
What causes front end shake at high speed/hard acceleration? Low sided the bike, frame has a dent but no cracks or visable warpage. Loosened up the tension in the bike retorqued in sequence, new balanced tires. The bike rides straight, goes into corners normal etc.. Rides perfectly normal even at 75 mph on the freeway, only happens under acceleration.
1. Rear tire pressure a little low taking weight off the front tire. 2. Fork rebound being a little too fast. Try 1. first with pressures, then try 2. once pressures are set.
Thanks for the feedback. Glad the videos are helpful. How many miles on the bike and how many aftermarket parts? Has the suspension been serviced? Can you reply to dave(at)feelthetrackdotcom? Thanks!
Dave just bought 2008 Versys 12000 mi. I adjusted the chain slack to 1in...it was at1 1/8in not for out. Today was my 3rd ride on the bike and I noticed it sounded as if the drive system was not staying smoothly engaged at low speed in 2-4 gears. Kind of like if I were jockeying the throttle a little which I was not. I was holding the throttle input as steady as
Enjoy you shows. Admire your skill, ,knowledge and ability to communicate technical information.
Wayne 80 year old rider San Antonio,Texas
Hi Wayne! That would be the tight spot in the chain creating that effect, so you need more freeplay. Find the tight spot and adjust again :)
Dave Moss Tuning thanks Dave.
Readjusted chain..roadtest today.
Try relaxing your grip - it is honestly, most probably the cause. The faster we go the more relaxed and light on the bars we have to be.
thanks for the video. would have been nice if you had told us that sag is from topped out and not static sag instead of leaving those who don't know to do the math themselves with the numbers you're saying out loud.
awesome video. very helpful
@markusx2468 Thanks for the reminder to always state the basics.
Dave Moss
Host
360 degrees or one full rotation, out meaning counter clockwise
@RDSSPIEGEL I'll give you the data points, and normally ask for a paypal donation in return located on my homepage at feelthetrack(dot)com
Forks:
preload at 4 lines showing
rebound at 12 clicks out
low speed compression at 6 clicks out
Shock:
preload at notch 6 from the bottom
low speed compression at 6 clicks out
high speed at 1 turn out
rebound at 5 clicks out
Superb video
Dave,
Thank you for all your expert advise... I have a very short video of my 07 R6 with what should be the correct sag settings to my weight. I still have factory springs front and rear but have the front pre load (adj's) almost maxed out.... The rear is at the 6th notch and even being a big guy I'm at 30mm of "rider sag"
I took a video of me pushing down on the bike as I've seen you do quite often.... Would you be willing to just glance at it and see what you think about the action of the suspension?? I just took it for a short 10/15 min ride and that was the very first ride with the new front forks being serviced.
So... Sorry this is such a long msg but please let me know if you wouldn't mind taking a quick look at this video just so I can get Your opinion. I did the calculations and im at 30mm R and 40mm F with my big rump on the bike.... I took the measurements in my suit as we'll just to try amd get as precise as I could..
I cannot load that video on here so again, if you're cool with watching it for me, please send me a link that i could send it to. Or if it makes your life much easier I can always just post it on youtube and tag you in it... Either way let me know.
Oh, please note... This is track only bike. Doesn't get the normal street wear and tear!! Just thought I'd add that if it matters.
Thanks in advance!!!
GregB44
Please email me with answers to the following questions: dave@davemosstuning.com. What year R6, how many miles on the bike, changes from stock, fork and shock oil age? Tire brand and sizes. Thanks
Email sent....
Great video
yes it could :)
If you have any more questions please let us know!
Dave Moss
Host
Hi dave. I have an '06 Yamaha R6 and weigh 95-100Kg in my kit (I am tall!). What settings of sag would you recommend for street...? Thanks!
Do you set sag with the bike on the side stand?
To extend the suspension, the side stand is perfect for the task. After that, the motorcycle has to be held upright with in a chock or by hand.
I love this thanks man your the best
I get that we will really use tire wear to fine tune all of this, and that balance front to rear can be evaluated without a rider, but wouldn't you rather have a rider on the bike to evaluate rebound?
Personally - it would be extremely difficult to do with the rider on the bike. Having tried both methods and time being the major constraint, without the rider is far more effective.
What should the sag be if I will be riding on the track (more specifically Thunderhill). Thanks Dave!
For the track 25-30mm for the rear shock and 30-35mm for the forks as barking is not as hard as Sears Point or Button Willow.
Awesome! Thanks for the info and quick reply, hope to see you at the track one day!
i wish you lived in Australia. Like NSW south coast.. lol
Dear Dave,
What if I can achieve 30mm rider sag but very minimal almost non free sag?Should I compromise by increasing rider sag?
What happens to metal with heat? It expands....... CHeck static sag again when the shock is hot. If that is the case, increase to 35-37mm. Let the cable tie on the forks show how much travel you use with that setting. If you bottom out, you are better than the OEM equipment and need a stronger spring.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks again sir.
Will do as advised.
Hi Dave, I have a Yamaha R6 2008 U.K. version. I weight 85kg with all leathers etc. The current settings is stock and I'm looking for a better set up. Please please help. A bit more info, the only riding I do is twisty sometimes bumpy uk roads. I find when pushing the bike hard it ties it self in knots. I'm comparing it to my GSXR 750 K6 which was a plush ride.
regards David.
I just purchased 2007 yamaha r6 and found it that bolt from the engine mount is missing i wondering is there a spacer? Before i put my new frame slider
You should have the threads checked where the missing bolt goes to make sure it can receive it.
also what line should my shocks be set at? and clicks out is from all the way counter clockwise is this correct
So at 170pds. Preload got all remove. Just leave it like that?
Sag gets a bike set correctly for weight balance/pitch. Ride it then +/- preload to see you prefer based on the ride quality/style you need.
Just checked the pre load on the front forks and its at the lowest dooh! Could this be the problem????
Hello Dave, unfortunately i don't have any shop nearby that can setup the suspension of my two bikes (2011 zx-10r with ohlins front and rear and a 2017 yamaha r1m). would it be possible to give me approximate settings according to my weight in case you have done a similiar setup before with someone in my weight zone. I would gladly donate if you could help :D
Pascal. Please answer the following questions for both bikes separately and reply with this email: dave@davemosstuning.com. How many miles on the bike, what changes from stock, have the forks and shock ever been serviced, what brand and size tires are you using. Thanks.
one turn = 360 degrees
Dave Moss Tuning Dave I have a question, I just purchased a 2010 r6 that came lowered. It looks like it has stock some bones but it's so low to the ground. The forks are lowered in the front I'm wondering it the rear shock is slammed to the ground or if it's something else they I'm missing for being so low
Top
TQ
i bought the bike about a month ago and it has 15000 on it aftermarket is only the exhaust
I wanna buy a Used bike... and would love to buy a bike that has been tuned by the You the Master... Handling is the key of driving a safer Bike...
What bike are you looking for? have you decided by sitting on various bikes to see what fits you best? Be comfortable first, then suspension second :)
589+8 gives us 597, not 596 sir lol
Great. - I'm fired! 🤣🤣🤣
Working with in a mm? Narh
You aren't much explaining what you are doing.... this taught me more than I knew but still missing a bit.
What was missed in your POV?
Ìjyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyddu
Correct position is good yamaha bike is not compatible for asian people.so think you.sir your video
Is that high and low compression? and what about the rebound at the shock?