I can't believe what the RV industry gets away with and how much they charge for shotty work. As a person that that does the same thing you do for a living, people would not believe the horror stories that I've seen!! Thanks for the video your doing everyone a solid with this PSA.
It's funny how some people on RUclips defend the horrible make of RVs these days, but would flip out if this was a brand new home. They ignore it by saying all RVs come with problem. I'm like dude your floor came out under your brand new RV. The RV company knew the problem was there but didn't fix it or care too. I shake my head. The RV shady buyers love people that just accept the brand new big RV problems.
Not just the manufacturers, but also the dealers, who know exactly what they're selling. General RV, for example, deliberately headquarters out of Michigan. This is because the RV industry bought off the right legislators there, effectively killing lemon laws where RVs are concerned. This also allows General RV to move any legal claim from any state to Michigan, giving them total protection from any liability
@@chriskibodeaux9818 Maybe rather than just throwing shade you could make a point. Don't call him "wrong" tell / show us how he's wrong. Hint: ad hominem is not an argument.
My son has a Micolite style camper, 24 foot Forest River I think. At 3 y/o the floor in the bathroom and in front of the kitchen started to sink and get soft. After some thinking, I remembered something I saw about fixing balsa core boat panels in the West System Epoxy how to book. We cut the vinyl floor covering in the "grout lines" and rolled it up. I drilled a big grid work of holes,careful not to drill thru the bottom layer, and then filled them using a big syringe with a thickened epoxy mixture. I let it settle and then topped off all the holes again the next day. A few layers of glass to build up the low areas and then a final layer of glass and epoxy and the floor is better than new. Flat with no sag or sponginess. We put the vinyl back down and used a flooring seam sealer to make the work almost invisible. It has been several years and it is still holding up well to 3 kids and lots of camping. We were luck in that the laminated top was still stuck to the foam, just the foam was deteriorated. Hopefully this tip might help someone save lot of time, money or maybe the whole camper.
Oof, I just bought a 2019 Forest River Palomino 205SS in April, to use on the road constantly, and I've started hearing squeaking from a couple of places in the floor, (not to mention a possible slight tweak to the frame at the back on one side that's another topic.) Do you know specifically what he has? I wish I had a Dad like you. If you ever wanted to just walk through his trailer and record an explanation for your channel, that would be pretty kick-ass! BTW what are you reading that has this useable know-how?
I have always told my customers that in order for the manufactures to make an "Ultra Lite" camper, they have to leave out some ultra important things. Here is the proof. Thanks James and tell Bad Chad, I said hi.
I have a 2020 Salem 36' I bought used Feb 2021. but it was only used once by the previous owner. My floors are soft, panels are separating, cabinet doors keep falling loose. And after one tire blowout, the whole thing is twisted . P.O.S. etheir way
Well this was a learning experience. I was going to ask when foam was considered to be a load bearing material?......but I guess they have been doing that in the walls and ceilings for some time. I sometimes get frustrated when something breaks on the trailer that I have, but at least the floor hasn't fallen out of it. Thank You for taking the time to make these videos. I had no idea what disposable junk some of these units really are until I started watching your repair videos.
Foam can be load-bearing if it's firmly attached to panels at the top and bottom (plywood, metal, or more commonly fiberglass). It's called a sandwich structure (google it). The panels are strong against compression and tension (loads in their long directions), but weak to flexing (loads against their thin direction). The foam eliminates this weakness in flex (shear loading in engineering-speak) by converting flex loads (perpendicular to the panels) into compressive or tensile loads (parallel to the panels). The foam isn't even strictly necessary. All that's required is for the two panels to be held equidistant from each other (flexing in one panel must be mirrored by the other panel). The strength actually depends on the distance between the two panels - how you hold them together doesn't matter. The aerospace industry uses the same design with a honeycomb structure holding the panels together (most of the space in the middle is empty air). If you carefully peel off the paper layers of a cardboard box, you'll see a similar type of structure, which is how cardboard can be lightweight but stiff when it's just paper glued together. The middle layer of paper is corrugated to give it some thickness, and firmly glued to flat layers of paper on both sides. But if they're just placing the panels on top of the foam with minimal glue, once the glue gives, the foam stops transferring load back to the panels. And you end up just compressing the foam when you walk on it, instead of the foam converting your weight into compression and tension within the panels. When we did it in shipbuilding, the entire surface of the fiberglass panel was evenly covered in adhesive before bonding to the foam. I've never seen plywood panels just resting on top of the foam in anything meant to be structural. (The foam also needs to be stiff, not compressible like styrofoam.)
In Australia we use foam in the walls for our vans, but that's insulation, not load bearing material,, foam in walls n ceiling are insulation never load bearing
A properly-designed and properly-constructed foam composite can be exceptionally strong and rigid for its weight. Many aircraft are built using this technology for significant portions of the structure. However, failure to adhere the plywood to the foam would be considered a critical failure and in an aircraft it would be grounded.
What I learned is that I am so glad that I was informed of the quality, then able to purchase, my Bluebird Wanderlodge. With almost every video that you post, I am thankful for the choice I made 3 years ago. i try to pass on the information that you present about some of these m/h's and trailers to people who are thinking of buying and I steer them to this channel.
This brought back bad memories of a 2000 Thor Aerolite we owned for way too long. The floor was the worst in the bathroom, but weak all over. We laid down a "wood" laminate floor over the vinyl and got a few more years out of it. Glad it is long gone.
This so much reminds me of the same type of problem we had with a 2016 Jayco Whitehawk. Purchased it new and within about 6 months had floor movement issues such as this. Delt back and forth with dealer and Jayco on the issue with no satisfaction for over a year. Had more than one tech tell me it was a design issue. Dealers I talked to said there was a way to fix it but Jayco would only pay them for about half the hours it took so they were reluctant to do so. All Jayco said was they would work with me on it, whatever that meant exactly they wouldn't say. Tech's told me this was a common problem they were running into. After two frustrating years of nothing resolved I sold the trailer at a big loss.
It's a whole lot easier to drop the tanks and other obstructions on the underside and add some structural supports under the existing flooring between the main frame rails seen in this video, I did this to mine after things started to get soft and it made a world of difference without tearing the interior out of the trailer.
I understand. The freshwater tank is directly under the galley so adding supports underneath is not possible. Also the lamination is the strength, so the 1/4 plywood is still loose from the foam, and pushing up from below will only allow the foam to compress over time. They are trying to make a lasting repair they can stand behind. Thanks
I just bought a 2013 coachmen Apex 215rbx and live in it. Just cut a piece of 1/2 inch plywood and place it in the front entrance and Hall and sides of bed . Take up the plywood in the Hall when you bring the slide in. . Place carpet on top of the plywood. This would definitely extend the life of the floor and also provide even more insulation.
Appreciate the video. Have a 2016 Premier 31BHPR Ultralite that we've owned since new. Had soft floor and roof 16 months into ownership, used for weekend and 7 day trips. Darco as wheel well liners cannot handle tire spray, soft spot where water intruded in line with axles. Roof was replaced within 1st year due to rubber separation from 1/4" underlayment. Dealer claimed 10 year warranty. When separated again in 2018 dealer said 10 years was on rubber, 1 year on labor. Rubber was never the problem, poor underlayment and attachment points is issue. So we owe $17K on a 5 year old camper with bad roof and bad floor and no factory or dealer support. I am meticulous about maintenance, what I cannot self perform we pay for which has been $500 - $2,00 per year, mostly on the roof. Buyer beware.
Thanks for displaying OEM quality of build. And how a modern RV can deteriorate so quickly. That steel frame underneath looks like it’s thin gauge steel and I have to assume it is flexing and bending with weight and travel over rough roads.
THIS - is why I am getting a Taylor Coach‼️😍🙋♀️🇨🇦❤‼️ 4 year guarantee, one peice aluminum floor with 1/2"marine grade plywood on top of that, or request 1". All sealed. Bolted to frame. I'm getting the insulation pkg too so added 1" foamboard. It gives me peace of mind to have a trailer that I can call the manufacturer if I have an issue.
Thank you so much for taking the time to expose and warn people what is instore for them when buying one of these types so we can make better informed decisions. Much appreciation.
I've worked in a composite shop in aviation a ways back and I think a phenolic honeycomb with a light coat of resin with graphite laid up would be just as light and super strong. Of course the price would increase over Styrofoam but you could use a lot less than the foam.
In the boating industry they sell a 4X8 sheet of "diminicell" that used to be $175.00 that is one inch foam and layers of fiberglass sandwiched and cured. Designed to be walked on like a surf board, cuts easily, light weight - - seems like a perfect material for this.
I work in aviation as well. Livinlite used to make trailers that used very similar composite panels and aluminum framing. It was a fantastic company until Thor bought them out and killed it.
Maybe you three need to get together and start selling a few things. Even if the industry hates you, I guess Thor will just buy you out and the cycle continues?
I have a traditional stick and tin built Jayco that is one year old. It has 5/8ths marine grade plywood on the floor. We used it a dozen times last year and only a couple minor issues. Some friends of ours that bought more expensive ultralight Jayco have had a lot more issues! It’s crazy they spent more money with more issues.
Great that Chad took it on , but what are the owners thinking that rig is literally a throw away at 8 years old . You would think after 100 years of travel trailer construction methods they would have it to a exact science by now . As always great video 👍👍
Every coachmen product I have walked through has felt cheap, and poorly finished. We have had absolutely no issues with both of our age Grand Design trailers. The floor is fully supported by transverse beams underneath, as well as aluminum framing and plywood on both sides. It feels rock solid. Yes, it weights more, but worth the few extra hundred pounds.
I checked out Grand Design and was not impressed and felt it was kind of cheap feeling. Plus OSB on the roof and floor and batt insulation...thats like a sponge if it ever gets wet. Pass for sure on the lower end models. At least Winnebago uses plywood. I ended up buying an 2022 Apex Nano and couldn't be happier.
Ever since Keystone bought out Coachman, their trailer quality has been really bad. I use to have a 2004 Coachman Chaparral and it was built a lot better than the new ones. In fact, when I traded it in, the head mechanic bought it before it could be put on the lot as "used". He even said they don't make them like that anymore.
Thanks for sharing with us. These RV's that have problems. No way a 5 year old couch should have such horrible floors! We are looking to upgrade and buy a new camper very soon. I will stear clear of these campers.
Good video, always learn something. What can we buy in the 20F lightweight range that is not built that way? We enjoyed about 10 years out of our similarly constructed Thor 2001 Aerolite Cub F21 hybrid before finding the floor rotting. I started the repair process and the damage was everywhere including a red squirrel issue. No care in construction or proper design. Well, I do like the galvanized trailer frame. Worked intermittently over the years on many repairs, chasing all the leaks and finally hoping to have it back on the road this summer. We bought it used from a dealer who knew is was bad. They told us these are meant to be disposable. Use them as long as you can and throw them away when the rot. My wife loves camping but I've decided we are never buying another one. From friends we know they say the new ones are even worse if that's possible. Not to mention the health issue, living with all that mold.
I think I would weld in some steel square tubing or angle iron supports underneath the trailer. It would be heavier and a bit pricey for the metal but probably done in a day.
Am very happy that I aquired a high quality class a holiday rambler. 1987 Imperial 33.. No computer. I can, and have fixed everything. Rebuilt the turbo 400 heavy duty to improved spec and durability. Very expensive transmission now has pressure and temperature gauge. Cherokee trailers are junk. Watching the weather stripping peel off the seams due to UV exposure on a relatively new rig. Just junk. No leaks, just condensation.
Can you maybe do a video or maybe you already have but maybe models or units that you would buy used that are more serviceable or built better than others? Going to be in the market this spring to replace a pop up camper and was not looking to buy new. I’m sure there are tons of factors…. Thanks in advance!
Thank You soo much this is exactly what i have been dealing with 2019 ultra lite and as a Carpenter it is what it is! Garbage made rvs i am building a New home and living in my RV Thanks again!
I've learned so much about travel trailers by watching your channel. i got a 2006 coachman 24 TBQ that im about to do a roof replacement on and repair some rot underneath the nose of the camper. going to tear it apart and beef it up real good and have all the confidence in the world i can do a good job by watching you work. Love my camper and i definitely get pulled into your vids for hours lol. The peak of the nose where it rolls around and meets the EPDM roofing is damaged. Where can i find a new replacement???
I built a cargo trailer camper after having travel trailers that fell apart. I'll never buy another manufactured camper again. Love having confidence to travel the country with a reliable rig. 👍
Sad to see this, I like older Coachman campers. Happy New Year James and Chad and also to your family and friends I hope you have a safe and healthy New Year.
My 2004 prowler had a similar floor. It did have aluminum tubing in the floor, but mine rotted out. Moisture came up from the bottom, and the vinyl flooring held the moisture in the laminate and turned it to mush. I gutted it last year during covid lockdowns and redid it with new supports and tongue and groove plywood. Ton of work, but was scrap otherwise.
I just learned that each month you live in an RV equates to a year of intended use. That blew my mind! so a year of living in an RV equals 12 years (of wear)! Imagine the wear and tear on something for 12 years, AC, Heating, flooring, seals, hoses, etc etc....no wonder they turn into junk!
Came across this video and it explains everything… I noticed a soft spot in the middle of our trailer near our bathroom and didn’t think it was water damage and this must be it. We have a 2018 Keystone passport grand touring Ultra Lite and have been living in it for a litttle over a year with 3 small kids… guessing our options for fixing are limited
Dang! I guess Chad's going to run some aluminum square tubing for floor beams? I'd think you'd need to jack up the side walls so they don't push down on the sides a leave a crown in the center of the floor. I'd also jack up the slide to keep the weight off the floor too. Hope to see some more on this.
Very informative video did you consider installing braces between the frame rails beneath the floor (under the floor on the exterior) ? Seems that would have been a lot easier than all the demo work on the inside
I would have added the support underneath then using screws and glue to refasten the floor to the foam. Then new tile on top, keep it low enough to not interfere with the slide
@AZ Expert I guess I don't follow. If you have full access beneath and plan to add supporting joists between the frame rails to support the floor then what is the point of cutting grooves in the foam inside? It seems like the only thing you should have to do inside is to re-adhere the laminate in the main walkways down to the foam.
Exactly! Think of other ways to make a repair before you completely dismantle the product. You could have easily seen the floor moving underneath as you walked across it.
Thank you so very much. I have learned a lot thanks to you. The price of RV’s you would think the quality could be better. I feel the RV industry is scamming people.
Now that surprise me. I was looking at 3 ultralights then mine. But the 3 wasn’t toy haulers. 6 months later it was still there and told them it was 19k at Pittsburgh RV show. Now you got it for 14k. I said out door everything $12k in cash or check done.It’s the same as I drove it off lot 2016. Now seeing this. Wow. Those three ultralights we’re going for 26,000 to 30,000 at the RV show they brought them down to 15,000 to 20,000 at the lot after the show. The messed up part thanks to the pandemic when I had mine priced for a trade-in $9000 now remember I only paid 12,000 5 years ago. Everybody that walks in with the American dream smile on their face is basically a sucker. When you sign on the dotted line and drive off the lot without doing any RESEARCH. Without it and you sign on the dotted line you get what you deserve. It took me six months. Before I bought mine and after six months in a pain in the $&@ wife. Mine was 12,000 out the door with a full warrantee for life. It does what I need. A place to rest sleep eat bathroom shower if that’s not available. It’s only 18 feet long so I fit into every campsite one campsite the manager allowed me to stay in a tent site I only had 20 instead of 30 amps. And it does exactly what I got it for. To save on hotel cost. When I’m doing a long weekend warrior vacation. You need to be very cautious about buying a new camper. With everybody buying campers now ppl having a problem finding sites. Campers over 20 feet you need to book way ahead and make sure you get a site. That one comedian said it RV stands for ruining your vacation nowadays. The Manufacturer’s can get away with it because actually the only thing that’s really DOT regulated is the chassis or the frame. What’s built on that chassis or frame as long as it falls under DOT regulations which is below 8 feet wide and so long and it has clearance lights DOT don’t really care if it’s held together with tissue paper.
I saw this coming years ago ... the insurance companies and the maker of these RVs ? Know all the loop holes on how to screw customers.. it’s a total racket. You know by being the professional you are. Your average every few weekend camping family with kids ? Or in general? Want the big apartment size RV. The problem they can’t afford the F 250 to pull them !! That’s why these companies are making these light crap trailers that don’t last. It’s sad because you pay lots of money for this ... it’s not right. But it’s great we have guys like you that inform us ..
Wow. I would be curious to know which manufacturers are still doing laminated flooring. I know Rockwood and Flagstaff use to, and now use 5/8” T&G plywood in their Mini/Micro Lites. They stopped using it due to soft spots in the floor after 5+ years (As per Josh at Haylett RV).
Yeah my 2011 flagstaff shamrock has a couple soft mushy spots. I will need to do something about soon. I will install some laminate flooring. I don’t have any slide outs.
@@randybobandy9828 Hi Randy, I know it’s been 7 months but hoping you’ll see this comment. I have a 2013 Rockwood Roo 21Ss and I have a soft spot over in front of the tv cabinet and also one that seems to be forming at the other end by the washroom door. I don’t think it is water - just the styrofoam breaking down. I’ve heard that maybe the rockwood”s have 16 inch cantered aluminum rails. I can’t find anyone with a video of the 2013 but you are the second person to say it so now I have some hope. If it’s true, then I assume I could rip the top layer of Luan off and then put some laminate vinyl planks over the foam and the 16 inch spaced rails. Can you tell me if you might have done something similar? Or send any links you may have? Thanks in advance!!!!
Thanks for keeping us in the know. I bet the manufacturer doesn't have weight limits for inhabitants. I would think it's just a matter of time before the styrofoam pulls away from the glue.
My 2013 Rockwood mini Lite is now starting to do this, I used 3/4 inch plywood and layed it down the main walkway and it helped a lot. I also added 2X4s under the floor every 2 feet, because there are only supports under the floor every 6 feet. But I agree, never buy a lite trailer if you are going to live in it or use it a lot.
In most cases, you sort of get what you pay for with lower brand name units. Manufacturers know what will happen to these floors, over time. But, by then, warranty has expired and ends up on the owner. Like the old saying, “caveat emptor”. Keep up the great work and information flow, James!
I had a roof leak during the warranty period and Thor refused to honor it based on them no longer building that model. Imagine hearing that the 100,000 mile warranty on your car is void just because it's last year's model.
Here’s a tip: Don’t buy anything Forest River (they own Coachmen). I had the same problem in mine but I went the route of drilling 1/4” holes on a 6” grid and injecting epoxy into each whole, the plugging with a 1/4 dowel. Has held up pretty good for 2 years, and we camp around 90 days a year. Good luck.
All Keystone Ultra Lites and Lite campers had a similar issue for about 2 years. I should know, they swapped out my 2019 for a 2020 because my floor was caving in from rot. To it's credit Keystone is now repairing them all at no cost. They even went so far to build a second factory to get them done in a timely manner. Of course you lose your camper for 3-5 months. BUT the point remains, how the hell could they design floors like that.
I have a 2021 Bullet 29BHS and I think it has the foam floor too. I noticed in a few areas the floor gives a bit. Dunno what is underneath, maybe it is supported now, dunno. Does concern me however.
I was curious about this because I just purchased a 2022 Apex Nano and the brochure does show supports parallel to the frame. Just to be sure I contacted Coachmen and they did say they have supports in the floor to prevent this from happening. Seeing as this one does not they must have made a design change at some point since 2016. Interesting nonetheless.
If they could laminate a 1/4" plywood strip vertically to each section of foam, that would add tremendous strength. Then glue the sections of foam/plywood back together in a strip for the floor. That's how you stiffen a surf board, adding a wood layer on edge embedded into the foam. I would suspect a 1/4" plywood glued to one side of each section of foam would give you a much firmer floor...
For years the shipping industry had corrugated, coated, cardboard to ship more expensive items. It seems they could use those type corrugated panels and have light weight and strength.
James thanks for another great video providing us with further examples of shoddy design and manufacturing in recent years. Slap-dash assembly and poor to no quality inspection is bad enough, but this goes to the very fundamentals of structural design. Is no one willing to build a quality RV anymore? Wishing you and the family the very best in 2022!
I had a 2017 sunset trail was the same way and no matter how many xchocks and blocking was done the floor still giggled when you walked around inside, changed water pump and saw how the floor was made and traded it off
Great video, with the costs going up for used travel trailers and the workmanship isn't going to improve with cost/greed of used trailers. This is a great point to help bring the inflated/greed back into alignment. So might be newer but built like crap then the negotiations begin. Thx again for the video
Wow, simply living in the thing is enough to destroy it if you don't have the right help to fix it. I learned a while ago how bad ultralight trailers were, but this is another level.
Wow! It would have been interesting to know the weight of the trailer before and after the repair. I bet they lose some weight capacity and now push the limits of the axles, tires etc.
Our trailer, a 33 ft Forest River is still holding up well, but I am thinking about upgrades to mitigate some of the manufacturing issues. I think I could design an aluminum (light weight) truss system that could be retrofitted under the larger spans. The aluminum would need to be electrically isolated from the steel to prevent corrosion. If the glue hasn't separated from the foam, then it might be enough to keep it tight.
This is precisely why we ditched our poorly built 5 wheel and got a 25 year old Country Coach class A diesel pusher. It’s built like a tank and weighs 28,000 pounds.
Profit is above all things as the buyers are clueless as to the manufacturing process. That is why we are going with a CTC so we control the building the internals. Also to correct any defects that are easily seen.
I am currently awaiting a approval or denial (most likely) on my coachmen travel trailer. It developed a weird cracking under the left rear marker light. Im already not too excited about it because the service lady suggested I might have bumped something. Nevermind the fact there is no "center" of the cracking. Its just random. Coachmen already told us its out of warranty. The last 2 times we used it was August 2021 then in October 2021. We bought it brand new in September 2020. And I take care of it. Look over the roof, check the windows among other things many owners don't keep up on.
I had this happen to my 2009 rock wood roo. Went back to the factory. They replaced the whole floor by lifting the top of the trailer off the frame. They charged be 2k to do it. Not a good situation under any circumstances.
Coachman, Keystone and Cougar are using these laminated floors and it will be the same problem with all. SOFT FLOORS. Star foam cannot support weight very long so there goes your floors
Ultra junk. There should be class action lawsuits against manufacturers that turn out these poorly made products. Great, informative video. Thanks for the education!
We had one of these Apex campers. I sold it privately a year later as is was just too big. Glad I did. I got a small Keystone bunk house trailer now but I think moving forward I’ll just rent a cabin.
I wish you guys could see how these campers are built. They are pushing these out the door as fast as they can, about every 15 minutes a unit rolls out the door. The workers are making $30-$40 per hour or more. The faster they get the 20-30 units a day done the faster they can go home. If it takes 6-7 hours to get them out the door the better. They get their parts from the company that gives them the best deal, not the best parts. On top of that alot of the parts sit outside in the rain and snow.
I had the exact problem on a Prime Time Crusader 5th wheel. I ended up adding support to the underside and it turned out better than new. Kinda sad they make things so poorly. PS, where's the blue hair?
That's insane but somehow not surprised. I've been leery of anything 'lite' since I saw first hand what happened to the frames on Weekend Warrior Super-Lites back in the mid-2000's when I was way into Glamis.
If you live in an ultralight full time put cinder blocks or wood up to the bottom of the floor underneath the trailer. That way the weight is getting pushed on the ground it will not weaken
Just saw this in late August and thank you for sharing this valuable information. I just wonder if the product there selling has any industry life standards. I want a truck camper for my next rig. Hope you have a few sample videos in the near future. Thanks this work you do is a service to the buyers and engineers. Mike
I have no doubt that the floor construction is inadequate. I'm shocked they'd rely on adhesive for strength. But I want to point out that those channels cut through the floor structure remove a lot more strength. The floor may well have been squishy and needed work to begin with, but with just lateral support (fore/aft support has been removed) there's no wonder it looks really bad.
@@AZExpert I get that. It's just that when you haven't put the supports in yet those voids weaken the structure even further. I'm just saying at this stage in the project (cut voids, no support yet) the floor may look even squishier that in was.
I was interested in a travel lite toy hauler. It has an aluminum frame with composite side and floor. Can I expect the same results with their unit? Thanks
Had problem ...cut linoleum up carefully , installed 12 gauge sheet metal over garbage floor, relaid linoleum and presto stiff floor with no soft spots and no slide out interference.
Maybe some plywood sections could be placed on top of the floor on the high traffic routes to prevent deterioration of the cheap floor. Maybe it would be a good repair just use a removable piece for the area where the slide out slides in.
I couldnt believe it. I bought used camper and floor ended up being rotten. I started tearing it apart and couldn't find any floor joists. It seemed like the underlayment fabric was the only thing holding the rotten floor up. I ended up replacing it. I made a small picture video of it
Charlie -- Always glad to have folks visit Alaska. We truly appreciate tourists. I trust you had an enjoyable time with us, and I hope you plan to return to see more!
I invested in a Fleetwood class C motor home, manufactured in 2006, with only 45,000 miles on the Ford F-450 chassis, I hope that I dont run into something likes this but this thing is like driving a heavy utility shed with comforts of a home down the road.
2015 28' Apex Ultra light that my stock Silverado can tow safely. We do NOT live in it, but it's got a ton of miles in it, and a ton of nights with a big dude in it. No problems with the floor.
I can't believe what the RV industry gets away with and how much they charge for shotty work. As a person that that does the same thing you do for a living, people would not believe the horror stories that I've seen!! Thanks for the video your doing everyone a solid with this PSA.
I bet! :) Thanks for watching!
It's funny how some people on RUclips defend the horrible make of RVs these days, but would flip out if this was a brand new home. They ignore it by saying all RVs come with problem. I'm like dude your floor came out under your brand new RV. The RV company knew the problem was there but didn't fix it or care too. I shake my head. The RV shady buyers love people that just accept the brand new big RV problems.
Not just the manufacturers, but also the dealers, who know exactly what they're selling. General RV, for example, deliberately headquarters out of Michigan. This is because the RV industry bought off the right legislators there, effectively killing lemon laws where RVs are concerned. This also allows General RV to move any legal claim from any state to Michigan, giving them total protection from any liability
shitty + shoddy = shotty?
I just bought a coleman I'm hoping my floor is not like this
Just… wow. 🤯 what a great thing you’re doing by educating us all… I would never have guessed this would have even been legal to drive on the roads!
:) Thanks for watching!
Why would it not be legal to drive. There's not a problem with the frame and it's not a passenger vehicle
Educating?! He’s wrong and beyond ignorant!
@@AZExpert You need to get a cameraman. Herky jerky is hard to watch.
@@chriskibodeaux9818 Maybe rather than just throwing shade you could make a point. Don't call him "wrong" tell / show us how he's wrong.
Hint: ad hominem is not an argument.
My son has a Micolite style camper, 24 foot Forest River I think. At 3 y/o the floor in the bathroom and in front of the kitchen started to sink and get soft. After some thinking, I remembered something I saw about fixing balsa core boat panels in the West System Epoxy how to book. We cut the vinyl floor covering in the "grout lines" and rolled it up. I drilled a big grid work of holes,careful not to drill thru the bottom layer, and then filled them using a big syringe with a thickened epoxy mixture. I let it settle and then topped off all the holes again the next day. A few layers of glass to build up the low areas and then a final layer of glass and epoxy and the floor is better than new. Flat with no sag or sponginess. We put the vinyl back down and used a flooring seam sealer to make the work almost invisible. It has been several years and it is still holding up well to 3 kids and lots of camping. We were luck in that the laminated top was still stuck to the foam, just the foam was deteriorated.
Hopefully this tip might help someone save lot of time, money or maybe the whole camper.
Thanks for the suggestion! and :) Thanks for watching!
Oof, I just bought a 2019 Forest River Palomino 205SS in April, to use on the road constantly, and I've started hearing squeaking from a couple of places in the floor, (not to mention a possible slight tweak to the frame at the back on one side that's another topic.)
Do you know specifically what he has? I wish I had a Dad like you. If you ever wanted to just walk through his trailer and record an explanation for your channel, that would be pretty kick-ass!
BTW what are you reading that has this useable know-how?
I have always told my customers that in order for the manufactures to make an "Ultra Lite" camper, they have to leave out some ultra important things. Here is the proof. Thanks James and tell Bad Chad, I said hi.
LOL will do
I have a 2020 Salem 36' I bought used Feb 2021. but it was only used once by the previous owner. My floors are soft, panels are separating, cabinet doors keep falling loose. And after one tire blowout, the whole thing is twisted . P.O.S. etheir way
I laid down cut pieces of 1/2 inch plywood and covered with carpet. When I bring the slide in, I pick up the hallway plywood. No prob
Maybe not all. The other ultra late I was looking at had 16" on center aluminum floor joist.
@@randybobandy9828 which one, and what decision did you make?
Well this was a learning experience. I was going to ask when foam was considered to be a load bearing material?......but I guess they have been doing that in the walls and ceilings for some time. I sometimes get frustrated when something breaks on the trailer that I have, but at least the floor hasn't fallen out of it.
Thank You for taking the time to make these videos. I had no idea what disposable junk some of these units really are until I started watching your repair videos.
Peterson Excel went out of business in 2016 because they built a coach to outlast the owner.
Find one of those.
:) Thanks for watching!
Foam can be load-bearing if it's firmly attached to panels at the top and bottom (plywood, metal, or more commonly fiberglass). It's called a sandwich structure (google it). The panels are strong against compression and tension (loads in their long directions), but weak to flexing (loads against their thin direction). The foam eliminates this weakness in flex (shear loading in engineering-speak) by converting flex loads (perpendicular to the panels) into compressive or tensile loads (parallel to the panels).
The foam isn't even strictly necessary. All that's required is for the two panels to be held equidistant from each other (flexing in one panel must be mirrored by the other panel). The strength actually depends on the distance between the two panels - how you hold them together doesn't matter. The aerospace industry uses the same design with a honeycomb structure holding the panels together (most of the space in the middle is empty air). If you carefully peel off the paper layers of a cardboard box, you'll see a similar type of structure, which is how cardboard can be lightweight but stiff when it's just paper glued together. The middle layer of paper is corrugated to give it some thickness, and firmly glued to flat layers of paper on both sides.
But if they're just placing the panels on top of the foam with minimal glue, once the glue gives, the foam stops transferring load back to the panels. And you end up just compressing the foam when you walk on it, instead of the foam converting your weight into compression and tension within the panels. When we did it in shipbuilding, the entire surface of the fiberglass panel was evenly covered in adhesive before bonding to the foam. I've never seen plywood panels just resting on top of the foam in anything meant to be structural. (The foam also needs to be stiff, not compressible like styrofoam.)
In Australia we use foam in the walls for our vans, but that's insulation, not load bearing material,, foam in walls n ceiling are insulation never load bearing
A properly-designed and properly-constructed foam composite can be exceptionally strong and rigid for its weight. Many aircraft are built using this technology for significant portions of the structure. However, failure to adhere the plywood to the foam would be considered a critical failure and in an aircraft it would be grounded.
What a piece of work. Glad you’re putting content out like this
What I learned is that I am so glad that I was informed of the quality, then able to purchase, my Bluebird Wanderlodge. With almost every video that you post, I am thankful for the choice I made 3 years ago. i try to pass on the information that you present about some of these m/h's and trailers to people who are thinking of buying and I steer them to this channel.
:) Thanks for watching!
I love the wanderlodge. Glass and brass, some of the old ones are very steampunkish and eclectic.
This brought back bad memories of a 2000 Thor Aerolite we owned for way too long. The floor was the worst in the bathroom, but weak all over. We laid down a "wood" laminate floor over the vinyl and got a few more years out of it. Glad it is long gone.
Sounds awful
This so much reminds me of the same type of problem we had with a 2016 Jayco Whitehawk. Purchased it new and within about 6 months had floor movement issues such as this. Delt back and forth with dealer and Jayco on the issue with no satisfaction for over a year. Had more than one tech tell me it was a design issue. Dealers I talked to said there was a way to fix it but Jayco would only pay them for about half the hours it took so they were reluctant to do so. All Jayco said was they would work with me on it, whatever that meant exactly they wouldn't say. Tech's told me this was a common problem they were running into. After two frustrating years of nothing resolved I sold the trailer at a big loss.
That sounds awful! Thanks for watching!
What a great promotional video for Coachman! WOW!!
lol :) Thanks for watching!
It's a whole lot easier to drop the tanks and other obstructions on the underside and add some structural supports under the existing flooring between the main frame rails seen in this video, I did this to mine after things started to get soft and it made a world of difference without tearing the interior out of the trailer.
I understand. The freshwater tank is directly under the galley so adding supports underneath is not possible. Also the lamination is the strength, so the 1/4 plywood is still loose from the foam, and pushing up from below will only allow the foam to compress over time. They are trying to make a lasting repair they can stand behind. Thanks
Exactly! Common sense!
@@AZExpert thanks for the explanation
Thanks for the heads up. I have a friend that’s looking for a small RV and now he can watch out. 👍
:) Thanks for watching!
He should check out a Casita fiberglass trailer.
I just bought a 2013 coachmen Apex 215rbx and live in it. Just cut a piece of 1/2 inch plywood and place it in the front entrance and Hall and sides of bed . Take up the plywood in the Hall when you bring the slide in. . Place carpet on top of the plywood. This would definitely extend the life of the floor and also provide even more insulation.
Thanks for the suggestion! and Thanks for watching!
Appreciate the video. Have a 2016 Premier 31BHPR Ultralite that we've owned since new. Had soft floor and roof 16 months into ownership, used for weekend and 7 day trips. Darco as wheel well liners cannot handle tire spray, soft spot where water intruded in line with axles. Roof was replaced within 1st year due to rubber separation from 1/4" underlayment. Dealer claimed 10 year warranty. When separated again in 2018 dealer said 10 years was on rubber, 1 year on labor. Rubber was never the problem, poor underlayment and attachment points is issue. So we owe $17K on a 5 year old camper with bad roof and bad floor and no factory or dealer support. I am meticulous about maintenance, what I cannot self perform we pay for which has been $500 - $2,00 per year, mostly on the roof. Buyer beware.
Thats awful
I'm looking at campers right now. Thank you for this VERY informative video!!! No UL crap for me.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for displaying OEM quality of build. And how a modern RV can deteriorate so quickly. That steel frame underneath looks like it’s thin gauge steel and I have to assume it is flexing and bending with weight and travel over rough roads.
You bet :) Thanks for watching!
@@AZExpert and they say it's designed to do that, like it's a feature! 🙄
That is too bad. Thank you for these videos, without them we might make a terrible mistake ourselves. Happy trails!
THIS - is why I am getting a Taylor Coach‼️😍🙋♀️🇨🇦❤‼️ 4 year guarantee, one peice aluminum floor with 1/2"marine grade plywood on top of that, or request 1". All sealed. Bolted to frame. I'm getting the insulation pkg too so added 1" foamboard. It gives me peace of mind to have a trailer that I can call the manufacturer if I have an issue.
:) Thanks for watching Jane!
Thank you so much for taking the time to expose and warn people what is instore for them when buying one of these types so we can make better informed decisions. Much appreciation.
Thanks for watching!
I've worked in a composite shop in aviation a ways back and I think a phenolic honeycomb with a light coat of resin with graphite laid up would be just as light and super strong. Of course the price would increase over Styrofoam but you could use a lot less than the foam.
Thanks for watching!
In the boating industry they sell a 4X8 sheet of "diminicell" that used to be $175.00 that is one inch foam and layers of fiberglass sandwiched and cured.
Designed to be walked on like a surf board, cuts easily, light weight - - seems like a perfect material for this.
I work in aviation as well. Livinlite used to make trailers that used very similar composite panels and aluminum framing. It was a fantastic company until Thor bought them out and killed it.
Maybe you three need to get together and start selling a few things.
Even if the industry hates you, I guess Thor will just buy you out and the cycle continues?
I have a traditional stick and tin built Jayco that is one year old. It has 5/8ths marine grade plywood on the floor. We used it a dozen times last year and only a couple minor issues. Some friends of ours that bought more expensive ultralight Jayco have had a lot more issues! It’s crazy they spent more money with more issues.
Thats a shame
Great that Chad took it on , but what are the owners thinking that rig is literally a throw away at 8 years old . You would think after 100 years of travel trailer construction methods they would have it to a exact science by now . As always great video 👍👍
It is an exact science it lasted 8 years time for a new one, sadly.
:) Thanks for watching!
Every coachmen product I have walked through has felt cheap, and poorly finished. We have had absolutely no issues with both of our age Grand Design trailers. The floor is fully supported by transverse beams underneath, as well as aluminum framing and plywood on both sides. It feels rock solid. Yes, it weights more, but worth the few extra hundred pounds.
:) Thanks for watching!
I checked out Grand Design and was not impressed and felt it was kind of cheap feeling. Plus OSB on the roof and floor and batt insulation...thats like a sponge if it ever gets wet. Pass for sure on the lower end models. At least Winnebago uses plywood. I ended up buying an 2022 Apex Nano and couldn't be happier.
Ever since Keystone bought out Coachman, their trailer quality has been really bad. I use to have a 2004 Coachman Chaparral and it was built a lot better than the new ones. In fact, when I traded it in, the head mechanic bought it before it could be put on the lot as "used". He even said they don't make them like that anymore.
Thanks for sharing with us. These RV's that have problems. No way a 5 year old couch should have such horrible floors! We are looking to upgrade and buy a new camper very soon. I will stear clear of these campers.
Thanks for watching!
Glad I found your channel. Looking to purchase a used travel trailer and this is important information. Thanks for putting out this sort of content.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this. Considering a full time RV in the future. Will definitely be upping my standards.
Good choice!
Good video, always learn something. What can we buy in the 20F lightweight range that is not built that way?
We enjoyed about 10 years out of our similarly constructed Thor 2001 Aerolite Cub F21 hybrid before finding the floor rotting. I started the repair process and the damage was everywhere including a red squirrel issue. No care in construction or proper design. Well, I do like the galvanized trailer frame. Worked intermittently over the years on many repairs, chasing all the leaks and finally hoping to have it back on the road this summer. We bought it used from a dealer who knew is was bad. They told us these are meant to be disposable. Use them as long as you can and throw them away when the rot. My wife loves camping but I've decided we are never buying another one. From friends we know they say the new ones are even worse if that's possible. Not to mention the health issue, living with all that mold.
My gosh, to bad some manufacturers get by with this kind of shoddy work, thanks for this info,
:) Thanks for watching!
I think I would weld in some steel square tubing or angle iron supports underneath the trailer. It would be heavier and a bit pricey for the metal but probably done in a day.
Am very happy that I aquired a high quality class a holiday rambler. 1987 Imperial 33.. No computer.
I can, and have fixed everything. Rebuilt the turbo 400 heavy duty to improved spec and durability.
Very expensive transmission now has pressure and temperature gauge.
Cherokee trailers are junk. Watching the weather stripping peel off the seams due to UV exposure on a relatively new rig.
Just junk.
No leaks, just condensation.
Thanks for watching!
Can you maybe do a video or maybe you already have but maybe models or units that you would buy used that are more serviceable or built better than others? Going to be in the market this spring to replace a pop up camper and was not looking to buy new. I’m sure there are tons of factors…. Thanks in advance!
I'll definitely think about it! :) Thanks for watching!
Thank You soo much this is exactly what i have been dealing with 2019 ultra lite and as a Carpenter it is what it is! Garbage made rvs i am building a New home and living in my RV
Thanks again!
I'm sorry you are dealing with this
I've learned so much about travel trailers by watching your channel. i got a 2006 coachman 24 TBQ that im about to do a roof replacement on and repair some rot underneath the nose of the camper. going to tear it apart and beef it up real good and have all the confidence in the world i can do a good job by watching you work. Love my camper and i definitely get pulled into your vids for hours lol. The peak of the nose where it rolls around and meets the EPDM roofing is damaged. Where can i find a new replacement???
Keystone does it too...but they also sandwich aluminum framing in with the foam. So far so good but we're only 3 years deep
Binge watching your channel. Learning what to avoid. Thanks for the education.
I built a cargo trailer camper after having travel trailers that fell apart. I'll never buy another manufactured camper again. Love having confidence to travel the country with a reliable rig. 👍
Awesome
Please make a video on how!
Wish I knew this last year before I bought my 2018 but we will see. Thank you for the heads up now I know to keep an eye out for it
Sad to see this, I like older Coachman campers. Happy New Year James and Chad and also to your family and friends I hope you have a safe and healthy New Year.
Happy New Year! I'll pass it along to Chad. :) Thanks for watching!
My 2004 prowler had a similar floor. It did have aluminum tubing in the floor, but mine rotted out. Moisture came up from the bottom, and the vinyl flooring held the moisture in the laminate and turned it to mush. I gutted it last year during covid lockdowns and redid it with new supports and tongue and groove plywood. Ton of work, but was scrap otherwise.
Wow! thats a big job--glad you were able to salvage it but it's a shame you had to do it in the first place
I just learned that each month you live in an RV equates to a year of intended use. That blew my mind! so a year of living in an RV equals 12 years (of wear)! Imagine the wear and tear on something for 12 years, AC, Heating, flooring, seals, hoses, etc etc....no wonder they turn into junk!
That is incorrect. Maybe if it was a herd of elephants.
Came across this video and it explains everything… I noticed a soft spot in the middle of our trailer near our bathroom and didn’t think it was water damage and this must be it. We have a 2018 Keystone passport grand touring Ultra Lite and have been living in it for a litttle over a year with 3 small kids… guessing our options for fixing are limited
Dang! I guess Chad's going to run some aluminum square tubing for floor beams? I'd think you'd need to jack up the side walls so they don't push down on the sides a leave a crown in the center of the floor. I'd also jack up the slide to keep the weight off the floor too. Hope to see some more on this.
I hope to make another video
Well, at least it can be pulled with a half ton truck!
Happy New Year James!
Ha! Especially if it's in pieces! Happy New Year!
Very informative video did you consider installing braces between the frame rails beneath the floor (under the floor on the exterior) ? Seems that would have been a lot easier than all the demo work on the inside
That's the plan
Still have to remove the inside
I would have added the support underneath then using screws and glue to refasten the floor to the foam. Then new tile on top, keep it low enough to not interfere with the slide
@AZ Expert I guess I don't follow. If you have full access beneath and plan to add supporting joists between the frame rails to support the floor then what is the point of cutting grooves in the foam inside?
It seems like the only thing you should have to do inside is to re-adhere the laminate in the main walkways down to the foam.
Exactly! Think of other ways to make a repair before you completely dismantle the product. You could have easily seen the floor moving underneath as you walked across it.
Thank you so very much. I have learned a lot thanks to you. The price of RV’s you would think the quality could be better. I feel the RV industry is scamming people.
I agree. :) Thanks for watching!
Now that surprise me. I was looking at 3 ultralights then mine. But the 3 wasn’t toy haulers. 6 months later it was still there and told them it was 19k at Pittsburgh RV show. Now you got it for 14k. I said out door everything $12k in cash or check done.It’s the same as I drove it off lot 2016. Now seeing this. Wow. Those three ultralights we’re going for 26,000 to 30,000 at the RV show they brought them down to 15,000 to 20,000 at the lot after the show. The messed up part thanks to the pandemic when I had mine priced for a trade-in $9000 now remember I only paid 12,000 5 years ago. Everybody that walks in with the American dream smile on their face is basically a sucker. When you sign on the dotted line and drive off the lot without doing any RESEARCH. Without it and you sign on the dotted line you get what you deserve. It took me six months. Before I bought mine and after six months in a pain in the $&@ wife. Mine was 12,000 out the door with a full warrantee for life. It does what I need. A place to rest sleep eat bathroom shower if that’s not available. It’s only 18 feet long so I fit into every campsite one campsite the manager allowed me to stay in a tent site I only had 20 instead of 30 amps. And it does exactly what I got it for. To save on hotel cost. When I’m doing a long weekend warrior vacation. You need to be very cautious about buying a new camper. With everybody buying campers now ppl having a problem finding sites. Campers over 20 feet you need to book way ahead and make sure you get a site. That one comedian said it RV stands for ruining your vacation nowadays. The Manufacturer’s can get away with it because actually the only thing that’s really DOT regulated is the chassis or the frame. What’s built on that chassis or frame as long as it falls under DOT regulations which is below 8 feet wide and so long and it has clearance lights DOT don’t really care if it’s held together with tissue paper.
It's true--the pandemic forced everyone outside
I saw this coming years ago ... the insurance companies and the maker of these RVs ? Know all the loop holes on how to screw customers.. it’s a total racket. You know by being the professional you are. Your average every few weekend camping family with kids ? Or in general? Want the big apartment size RV. The problem they can’t afford the F 250 to pull them !! That’s why these companies are making these light crap trailers that don’t last. It’s sad because you pay lots of money for this ... it’s not right. But it’s great we have guys like you that inform us ..
:) Thanks for watching!
Wow. I would be curious to know which manufacturers are still doing laminated flooring. I know Rockwood and Flagstaff use to, and now use 5/8” T&G plywood in their Mini/Micro Lites. They stopped using it due to soft spots in the floor after 5+ years (As per Josh at Haylett RV).
It's definitely an issue! :) Thanks for watching!
Yeah my 2011 flagstaff shamrock has a couple soft mushy spots. I will need to do something about soon. I will install some laminate flooring. I don’t have any slide outs.
The 2013 rockwoods have 16in aluminum rails in the floor
@@randybobandy9828 Hi Randy, I know it’s been 7 months but hoping you’ll see this comment. I have a 2013 Rockwood Roo 21Ss and I have a soft spot over in front of the tv cabinet and also one that seems to be forming at the other end by the washroom door. I don’t think it is water - just the styrofoam breaking down. I’ve heard that maybe the rockwood”s have 16 inch cantered aluminum rails. I can’t find anyone with a video of the 2013 but you are the second person to say it so now I have some hope.
If it’s true, then I assume I could rip the top layer of Luan off and then put some laminate vinyl planks over the foam and the 16 inch spaced rails. Can you tell me if you might have done something similar? Or send any links you may have? Thanks in advance!!!!
Thanks for keeping us in the know. I bet the manufacturer doesn't have weight limits for inhabitants. I would think it's just a matter of time before the styrofoam pulls away from the glue.
:) Thanks for watching!
why don't you add steel cross members from under the floor. Just making a floor sub frame stronger is a better idea and definitely cheaper?
stay tuned
My 2013 Rockwood mini Lite is now starting to do this, I used 3/4 inch plywood and layed it down the main walkway and it helped a lot. I also added 2X4s under the floor every 2 feet, because there are only supports under the floor every 6 feet.
But I agree, never buy a lite trailer if you are going to live in it or use it a lot.
Thanks for watching!
Post a video?
In most cases, you sort of get what you pay for with lower brand name units. Manufacturers know what will happen to these floors, over time. But, by then, warranty has expired and ends up on the owner. Like the old saying, “caveat emptor”. Keep up the great work and information flow, James!
:) Thanks for watching!
I had a roof leak during the warranty period and Thor refused to honor it based on them no longer building that model.
Imagine hearing that the 100,000 mile warranty on your car is void just because it's last year's model.
Here’s a tip: Don’t buy anything Forest River (they own Coachmen). I had the same problem in mine but I went the route of drilling 1/4” holes on a 6” grid and injecting epoxy into each whole, the plugging with a 1/4 dowel. Has held up pretty good for 2 years, and we camp around 90 days a year. Good luck.
I'm glad that worked well for you! :) Thanks for watching!
Did you drill through the floor to inject the epoxy?
How do you avoid drilling all the way through?
All Keystone Ultra Lites and Lite campers had a similar issue for about 2 years. I should know, they swapped out my 2019 for a 2020 because my floor was caving in from rot. To it's credit Keystone is now repairing them all at no cost. They even went so far to build a second factory to get them done in a timely manner. Of course you lose your camper for 3-5 months. BUT the point remains, how the hell could they design floors like that.
That's definitely the question!
I have a 2021 Bullet 29BHS and I think it has the foam floor too. I noticed in a few areas the floor gives a bit. Dunno what is underneath, maybe it is supported now, dunno. Does concern me however.
I was curious about this because I just purchased a 2022 Apex Nano and the brochure does show supports parallel to the frame. Just to be sure I contacted Coachmen and they did say they have supports in the floor to prevent this from happening. Seeing as this one does not they must have made a design change at some point since 2016. Interesting nonetheless.
I'm glad they made a positive change
Thanks for the video James- all the best for the New Year!
:) Thanks for watching!
Wow! We have an older diesel motorhome and sometimes I’ve thought towing a light weight trailer would be an alternative, not anymore!
:) Thanks for watching!
This is an eye opener, thanks for this video.
:) Thanks for watching!
If they could laminate a 1/4" plywood strip vertically to each section of foam, that would add tremendous strength. Then glue the sections of foam/plywood back together in a strip for the floor. That's how you stiffen a surf board, adding a wood layer on edge embedded into the foam.
I would suspect a 1/4" plywood glued to one side of each section of foam would give you a much firmer floor...
Or they could just have given it an actual floor
For years the shipping industry had corrugated, coated, cardboard to ship more expensive items. It seems they could use those type corrugated panels and have light weight and strength.
James thanks for another great video providing us with further examples of shoddy design and manufacturing in recent years. Slap-dash assembly and poor to no quality inspection is bad enough, but this goes to the very fundamentals of structural design. Is no one willing to build a quality RV anymore?
Wishing you and the family the very best in 2022!
Have you seen how Spacecraft trailers are built?
:) Thanks for watching!
I had a 2017 sunset trail was the same way and no matter how many xchocks and blocking was done the floor still giggled when you walked around inside, changed water pump and saw how the floor was made and traded it off
Don't blame you
@@AZExpert I traded for a kz product, has 5/8ths tongue and groove plywood floor...... we'll see
Always enjoy this show .
:) Thanks for watching!
Great video, with the costs going up for used travel trailers and the workmanship isn't going to improve with cost/greed of used trailers. This is a great point to help bring the inflated/greed back into alignment. So might be newer but built like crap then the negotiations begin. Thx again for the video
Thanks for watching!
Wow, simply living in the thing is enough to destroy it if you don't have the right help to fix it.
I learned a while ago how bad ultralight trailers were, but this is another level.
Wow! It would have been interesting to know the weight of the trailer before and after the repair. I bet they lose some weight capacity and now push the limits of the axles, tires etc.
I'd be upgrading the axles if I was already doing this.
I added 3" angle iron from frame rail to frame rail and the floor was great again.
awesome
Our trailer, a 33 ft Forest River is still holding up well, but I am thinking about upgrades to mitigate some of the manufacturing issues. I think I could design an aluminum (light weight) truss system that could be retrofitted under the larger spans. The aluminum would need to be electrically isolated from the steel to prevent corrosion. If the glue hasn't separated from the foam, then it might be enough to keep it tight.
Thanks for watching!
Where are you located? I might end up wanting something like this for my 23' 2019 Forest River Palomino 205SS
This is precisely why we ditched our poorly built 5 wheel and got a 25 year old Country Coach class A diesel pusher. It’s built like a tank and weighs 28,000 pounds.
Nice! Thanks for watching! :)
Profit is above all things as the buyers are clueless as to the manufacturing process. That is why we are going with a CTC so we control the building the internals. Also to correct any defects that are easily seen.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you. Would love to see how they fix it.
Keep watching!
I am currently awaiting a approval or denial (most likely) on my coachmen travel trailer. It developed a weird cracking under the left rear marker light. Im already not too excited about it because the service lady suggested I might have bumped something.
Nevermind the fact there is no "center" of the cracking. Its just random.
Coachmen already told us its out of warranty. The last 2 times we used it was August 2021 then in October 2021. We bought it brand new in September 2020.
And I take care of it. Look over the roof, check the windows among other things many owners don't keep up on.
Sorry to hear that
@@AZExpertme too. Of all things to go wrong that was the last thing I would have expected.
oh my. you bought the RV in the panic buying period
I had this happen to my 2009 rock wood roo. Went back to the factory. They replaced the whole floor by lifting the top of the trailer off the frame. They charged be 2k to do it. Not a good situation under any circumstances.
yikes
A follow up video would be nice. Chad & crew sure figure stuff out for repairs. Kudos to them.
Thanks for watching!
Coachman, Keystone and Cougar are using these laminated floors and it will be the same problem with all. SOFT FLOORS. Star foam cannot support weight very long so there goes your floors
Ultra junk. There should be class action lawsuits against manufacturers that turn out these poorly made products. Great, informative video. Thanks for the education!
Thanks for watching! :)
We had one of these Apex campers. I sold it privately a year later as is was just too big. Glad I did. I got a small Keystone bunk house trailer now but I think moving forward I’ll just rent a cabin.
Thanks for watching!
That’s kinda spooky. Too bad the water tank obstructed the idea of adding steel tubing.
Yeah, we work with what we have
I wish you guys could see how these campers are built. They are pushing these out the door as fast as they can, about every 15 minutes a unit rolls out the door. The workers are making $30-$40 per hour or more. The faster they get the 20-30 units a day done the faster they can go home. If it takes 6-7 hours to get them out the door the better. They get their parts from the company that gives them the best deal, not the best parts. On top of that alot of the parts sit outside in the rain and snow.
That's really a shame
Any exceptions to the rule?
Wow, thanks for exposing this nonsense to the general public...think of how many people walk into buying this not knowing what they are in for....
It's a shame
Thanks for the heads up .
Welcome! :) Thanks for watching!
I had the exact problem on a Prime Time Crusader 5th wheel.
I ended up adding support to the underside and it turned out better than new.
Kinda sad they make things so poorly.
PS, where's the blue hair?
lol I don't have blue hair. Maybe it's the lighting?
Why not add support from under the rv such as angle iron across the frame rails
6:04 Turns out it's also normal for buyers to steer clear of Coachmen products. This is how you run a company into the ground.
No accountability
That's insane but somehow not surprised. I've been leery of anything 'lite' since I saw first hand what happened to the frames on Weekend Warrior Super-Lites back in the mid-2000's when I was way into Glamis.
YIkes. I bet that was a sight
Whats your favorite RV for a large family of 6?
If you live in an ultralight full time put cinder blocks or wood up to the bottom of the floor underneath the trailer. That way the weight is getting pushed on the ground it will not weaken
Or they could build them better
@@AZExpert that would be ideal. Unfortunately some people have no control over that
Just saw this in late August and thank you for sharing this valuable information. I just wonder if the product there selling has any industry life standards. I want a truck camper for my next rig. Hope you have a few sample videos in the near future.
Thanks this work you do is a service to the buyers and engineers.
Mike
I dont often deal with truck campers
I have no doubt that the floor construction is inadequate. I'm shocked they'd rely on adhesive for strength. But I want to point out that those channels cut through the floor structure remove a lot more strength. The floor may well have been squishy and needed work to begin with, but with just lateral support (fore/aft support has been removed) there's no wonder it looks really bad.
those channels were cut by us to put the supports in
@@AZExpert I get that. It's just that when you haven't put the supports in yet those voids weaken the structure even further. I'm just saying at this stage in the project (cut voids, no support yet) the floor may look even squishier that in was.
Very much appreciate what you are doing. Are grand design and alliance campers any good?
Yes they are
Enjoy your videos. Do you know if 2018 Forest River Surveyor uses the same floor materials/design?
I was interested in a travel lite toy hauler. It has an aluminum frame with composite side and floor. Can I expect the same results with their unit? Thanks
Had problem ...cut linoleum up carefully , installed 12 gauge sheet metal over garbage floor, relaid linoleum and presto stiff floor with no soft spots and no slide out interference.
Great. thanks for watching
Maybe some plywood sections could be placed on top of the floor on the high traffic routes to prevent deterioration of the cheap floor. Maybe it would be a good repair just use a removable piece for the area where the slide out slides in.
Thanks for the input but the owner was looking for a permanent repair
Very helpful we were considering a Coachmen now we will inspect the floor and thinking about not getting an ultra light.
Thanks for watching!
Forest River, the Bayliner of RV's
LOL
I couldnt believe it. I bought used camper and floor ended up being rotten. I started tearing it apart and couldn't find any floor joists. It seemed like the underlayment fabric was the only thing holding the rotten floor up. I ended up replacing it. I made a small picture video of it
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I put 3/8 plywood under the camper then 2x6 in the frame rail every 16'' work great
Thanks for the comment
I have a 1972 avion it’s been to all 48 states and Alaska it’s heavy 24 ft 6200 dry but it tows great not 1 soft spot on the floor
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
Charlie -- Always glad to have folks visit Alaska. We truly appreciate tourists. I trust you had an enjoyable time with us, and I hope you plan to return to see more!
I invested in a Fleetwood class C motor home, manufactured in 2006, with only 45,000 miles on the Ford F-450 chassis, I hope that I dont run into something likes this but this thing is like driving a heavy utility shed with comforts of a home down the road.
Just take care of it and inspect your roof
2015 28' Apex Ultra light that my stock Silverado can tow safely. We do NOT live in it, but it's got a ton of miles in it, and a ton of nights with a big dude in it. No problems with the floor.
Awesome to hear